Boardwalk Empire Mafia: Pick Your Power - Page 7

On April 06 2013 10:21 VisceraEyes wrote:

And you acuse ME of convenient excuses. Hang.

On April 06 2013 10:23 geript wrote:
Also, would someone familiar with Caller's meta tell me about him?

On April 06 2013 10:24 Bill Murray wrote:
FoS Restraining Order
VE is town and scum are trying to get a D1 lynch on him

On April 06 2013 10:59 austinmcc wrote:
I think he's providing a decent service to town for now, regardless of his alignment.

Anyone know if RO is a smurf or new?

On April 06 2013 11:03 VisceraEyes wrote:
Frankly rather than just be hard-defended Bill, I'd like to hear rayn's reasoning for thinking I'm scum. You know...so I can maybe get a read on rayn? Like, I appreciate the vote of confidence and everything, but I get the heebiejeebies when people hard defend me like they're already CERTAIN I'm town. :/

How ARE you certain I'm town by the way?

On April 06 2013 11:25 Bill Murray wrote:
palmar and caller are basically null because they are afk

On April 06 2013 11:40 Bill Murray wrote:

no he's like Foolishness where he doesn't post at all for 2 days

On April 07 2013 12:25 Keirathi wrote:
Anyways:

raynpelikoneet:

I just got out of RED Team (click link for his filter) with a town rayn, so my expectations of his town play are still in the forefront of my mind. And some very obvious things aren't matching up:

1) Progression of reads:

I'm not going to quote every instance, but something really sticks out to me:

+ Show Spoiler +

What you'll see is a direct thought process and how rayn's read progresses. He played like this for the entire game: see something he thinks is scummy, questions it, discusses it, and then either votes or moves on to something else. Or even just see something he finds scummy, dissects it, and makes a case. He's trying to figure out the game, and engaging people trying to get comments on his points/comment on their points/doing whatever he can to help town.

Now let's look at this game:

+ Show Spoiler +

Etc, etc. This is how his reads "progress" with every single person that he's called scum. He just pulls their name out of thin air. Maybe makes up some justification for it, maybe not. VE/RO/Caller/me/austin/BM/etc etc. He's called ~half of the people in the game scum for little to no reasoning.

And those reads swing extremely wildly. Over half of the people he randomly calls scum are people that conveniently happen to already be under some suspicion/pressure.

And some extremely strange flip-flops. You'll notice up there in the quote spoiler, he was calling Caller scum for most of the game. Then:



Where did this come from? It makes no sense, because I don't see anything major that Caller changed, except he started pushing me. Or maybe that's the sense it makes; he stopped calling Caller scum once Caller started calling one of his "scum reads" scum (aka me).

Which was my point to begin with: his reads just change when they're convenient to change. Not when he has sufficient reasons for changing them. Which is extremely different from everything about how he played in RED.

2) "The Plan":

This point has already been talked about a bit, but I think it deserves a bit more attention.



Notice what he says. People in the top picks need to have some kind of cooperation towards denying roles/picking strong roles.

However, once he got his spot in the top 5, what happened to that cooperation? It was non-existent. He didn't even try. Town rayn in RED was cooperative and attempting to help town win all the way until end game, even when it meant he couldn't win himself (he had a dumb alternate win-con that involved killing a bunch of townies). He realized that he couldn't shoot us, or town as a whole would lose. So he sacrificed his own win-con and didn't shoot on the last night.

Which makes me question this:





"This is the only plan I will support!"

"Oh wait, no. I'll support the plan that directly benefits me, even though I just said the other one was super good."

He doesn't even explain why that plan is better than geript's. Just that suddenly, since the new plan gives him a free shot at the top 5, he would rather push that one.

But also notice how in the quote about the cooperation, he says "I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. They should pick whatever they feel is best for the town." Which begs the question: why the fuck did he say that he thought geript's plan was absolutely the best plan, then turn around and say that he thinks that plan is dumb just *ONE* hour later?? I can understand liking a plan, pushing it, then liking another plan better. But he completely flip flops by saying a plan is good, then almost immediately saying "no that plan is bad". It all just reeks of posturing to benefit himself, rather than what he legitimately thinks is the "best".

TL;DR: Strange reads with no progression or reasoning, uncooperative, excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks. Rayn is scum.

##vote raynpelikoneet

Notice what he says. People in the top picks need to have some kind of cooperation towards denying roles/picking strong roles.

On April 08 2013 07:54 Keirathi wrote:
@rayn: good, you're back

First: ##Unvote

Now, let's talk a bit:


What are you defending here? WHY are you defensive? I didn't call you out for lurking/not contributing/whatever. Weird opening statement.


You're right to an extent. I said that I hadn't read your scum meta. But everything about your play has been so glaringly different from the way you JUST played as town. Why? "Because the game is different" isn't an excuse for thinking and behaving completely differently.

You didn't specifically call it dumb. I was...paraphrasing, a bit. And that post you just linked came before the post where I said you were calling geript's plan dumb, which is even weirder.

Let's look at the progression, exactly:




Then:


geript's plan was exactly that: the people in the first 4 slots (aka pod, in this case) would be limited to a certain pod of picks. You said that was unarguably the best plan for town. Then changed your mind and are saying it's a bad plan. That's what I was getting at, here.


Ugh, I hate this kind of excuse. "No one else was doing anything, so I refuse to do anything too!"

YOU were the one saying that the top picks needed some kind of cooperation. Why didn't you try to get any? You just got your top pick, and buggered off.

I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles.

It's not my job to find out why you spew out bullshit reads with no explanation. The onus is on you to explain yourself. But again, that isn't even my point AT ALL. My entire point was that the way you are acquiring those reads is entirely inconsistent with how you acquired reads in Red Team. In Red Team, you saw something you didn't like, and either made a case right there, or you started poking and prodding at the person, questioning them and their motives. This game you just drop a name. Why so different?

Again, missed the whole point. You said that the top picks needed to be cooperative with picking powerful roles/denying scum roles. But didn't try to cooperate at all with the top picks once the draft order came out.

I already addressed that.

No, trying to get yourself in a top pick isn't scummy, in itself. Rapidly changing your mind to a plan that benefits you more, personally, than town, and then refusing to back up your opinions on cooperating with the other top picks is scummy, though.

I'm looking forward to seeing what you contribute today, though. Hopefully you can change my mind.

On April 08 2013 08:23 Shelvocke wrote:

3. Mocsta and Keirathi both look town to me. I don't think they're correct about rayn but they seemed to legitimately believe that he was mafia.

On April 08 2013 09:36 Mocsta wrote:

Do you think I was chasing you for funsies the other day?

I dont think you scum anymore.. i just think your bad town

But conviction was there, and I think Shevlocke comment was fair (regarding me at least)