Boardwalk Empire Mafia: Pick Your Power - Page 2

On April 04 2013 21:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How do you determine what is "dangerous" role and what is not? There is a large amount of roles that are dangerous in a way or another. I agree that there are many roles that are dangerous by themselves, but it's not like early picks who are town should just deny "dangerous" mafia roles by picking prince of darkness/janitor/admiral ackbar and then never use it. Because they are then essentially vanilla and that's far worse than them having a role that actually helps town.

And whoever suggested that America is a dangerous role, that's just stupid. Like all the other KP roles are far more dangerous in mafia's hands.

On April 04 2013 22:35 Caller wrote:
oim tellin ya gits just do wot i say. any mo discussin' of deez bad scummy planz iz gonna be a big' ol scum flag fo me. so if you don' wanna incur da wrath of khaller i sugest ya gitz find somethin' else to dizcus. in meantime, just folo mah straterjee, oite?

On April 04 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

No one's actually addressed this yet, especially Yamato which I find strange as it's an improvement upon his plan. I'd propose we use it for 2 roles at the most though. Past that, it just becomes too unreliable.

I don't like the VT claiming idea. Players that ended up with a VT role are still important to town in one way: Taking hits that would otherwise land on blues. I don't think the info gained on roles is worth this downside. There might be exceptions in certain situations (such as a player high up in the list claiming VT when he tried to pick a scummy role), but as the norm I'd be against it.

On April 04 2013 23:14 austinmcc wrote:
WEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEE

Late start.

If you want to argue about the setup, please read the last PYP game like this before doing so. Same discussions. I think there is reasonable discussion there that we don't need to have again. If you're arguing about how we choose roles/numbers/whatever this game without reading that or referencing it, you're doing yourself a disservice, and you're spamming up the thread in a way that isn't helpful.

This game is different in two major ways that I see. (1) Different role list. (2) Some players getting bonuses for picking a specific type of role. I like the ideas from the older PYP of denying certain strong mafia roles (Janitor is VERY powerful, think of how much damage a 12-hour delayed SINGLE flip caused in Personality 2. Now imagine a N1 janitor usage in a game full of PYP-ed KP roles, and 4-5 flips FOREVER hidden. No bueno). Multi-KP roles, Janitor, other roles are things that we NEED to deny as town. In this game "pick the best role for town" often equals "deny mafia their best role" because they will often be able to use a role super-optimally where town can't (town doc doesn't always save, mafia KP role always hits townies, stuff like that). Once we have a picking order, we SHOULD be assigning some roles, and I also like RNGing some roles so that scum can't 100% know what's left and what's not. Any scum receiving VT is FANTASTIC for us.

Artanis, we can both block roles AND RNG. They did last game and it made some sense. Check the bit on how (1), (2), and (3) in that game were supposed to pick.


seriously though, if you're going back and forth with someone(s) about whether we should do x or y, at the very least go read the last game. Especially Qatol's posts, which tended to be super sensible and concise. We want to plan for the best draft we can get. Reading their planning stages, and how it played out for them, should be part of our planning.

On April 04 2013 23:33 austinmcc wrote:

They had people set to pick Janitor/CPR, and marv to RNG between the two at the third spot. If the top players were town, those roles were denied. If they were scum and were planning on SAYING they picked those roles, but taking other powerful roles and having a scumbuddy at the bottom of the list pick up janitor/CPR on the sly, marv RNGing made that a less-desirable option. In order to really scheme and get powerful roles to people low on the list, scum would kind of need marv + one of the top two players to be scum, and that's something that would be hard to keep secret if low-list players use the powers or (1) or (2) die and dont' flip how they should.

Basically, mafia has the benefit of planning their picking strategy way better than town does. They can say they're picking x, pick y, and let x fall to a scumbuddy way downt he list. Whereas town members way down the list probably don't pick "powerful" roles for fear they're already gone. Some denial + some RNG keeps scum from being able to plan as much as they want.

On April 04 2013 23:00 Oatsmaster wrote:
I also think all the plans are hilariously scum favoured, there is a reason why dudes dont claim unless they have to or are VE.

On April 04 2013 23:44 deconduo wrote:
Morning all, things seem to have gotten heated pretty quickly. I've just skimmed the thread so far but I'm going to jump in with my opinion on the draft.

Setting predefined picks for the draft order tends to work out well for town. In fact it is a large reason for mafia getting caught out in the last two PYP games I played. However it is massively un-fun, and I feel goes against the spirit of the game. Its also the reason I got rid of the whole drafting phase in the PTP games I hosted.

If the majority want to go along with a pre-defined pick order, I'll co-operate. But given that there are almost three times more roles than players, why not have a free for all and play the game like its supposed to be played?

On April 05 2013 00:02 Oatsmaster wrote:

oh god dont mention the host as a way of making your point.
Please dont.

Austin, arent the mafia favoured roles instantly killed when they are outed anyway, because they chose that role = they are mafia? Like we dont need to say 'OH YOU CONTRADICTED YOURSELF AT THE START. SCUM'

Also arent there only like 4-5 roles that everyone knows that are best for scum?

I just dont see how this discussion is a useful way to spend our time

On April 05 2013 00:09 deconduo wrote:


Pretty much. This is not a new opinion, I've said the same in every PYP game I've played.



Good question actually. If you take the drafting part out of the equation, the game plays out pretty much the same as any insane type setup. Apart from that, you can start deducing roles from vanilla claims, flips and actions taken. Some roles will be pretty obvious once they are used, such as janitor, PoD etc. Once you know that a role is in the game you can start working out who has it, and if they've used it in a pro or anti-town manner.




You can try your hardest to win without taking advantage of what you consider to be faults in the system. As I said, if people prefer to play to win no matter what, I'll go along with them. I'm just stating my objection in the hopes that other people will feel the same was as I do.

If cheesing every game gave you the best chance to win, would you still do it?

On April 05 2013 00:13 Oatsmaster wrote:
Contradiction CITY. (for me)

Why caller Yamato?

Why is him being hilarious, scummy?

On April 05 2013 00:17 Oatsmaster wrote:


Why dont you just lynch yourself every game then? You disrupt the game too sometimes.

Thats a really really really bad argument for me/Caller for being scum.

On April 05 2013 00:18 deconduo wrote:


I think you've misunderstood me. I'm objecting to it because its not fun, not because its unfair to the mafia. That's completely aside from the point I'm making. If I felt it was anti-town I would still be against it.

Cheesing is good to throw in every once in a while to mix things up, but if you did it every game it would be boring as fuck. I feel the same way about the picking strats. Why not let everyone pick what they want for once, instead of forcing everyone to pick based on the position they get in the draft.

On April 05 2013 00:22 deconduo wrote:


That can only happen if all the mafia get the top positions in the draft. And even then, it wouldn't even be close to giving them an auto win.

On April 05 2013 00:36 Caller wrote:
but yamato i thought you said


so wait first im retarded and anti-town but not alignment indicative (if im anti-town but that doesn't point anything about my alignment, what the fuck could that mean? hmm?), then you tell people to ignore me, then you suddenly think im mafia. but only after oats is trying to scumdefend me.

You've spent the entire early part of the game essentially trying to instigate debate and win credibility points through them. You claim that you're a no-bullshit person, then you start bullshitting. You claim I'm anti-town, but that doesn't mean I'm mafia. Then you about-face and claim that I am mafia. Then you start bullshitting and requesting bullshit that I am mafia. Given this, after receiving a few half-hearted answers, you'll claim that you just think I'm a stupid townie and that you were just scumhunting.

ACTUAL FOS on yamato77.

On April 05 2013 01:56 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Hai

rolepicking is stupid and doesn't work, thanks for spamming the thread.

So let's move on to why people are calling Caller scum when it's pretty clear he's not.

Anyone wanna take credit for that... Bueller? Bueller?

On April 05 2013 01:32 Caller wrote:
all i know is that i'm going to a pick a role that will let me kill a certain two scum day 1