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InsertSmurfHere
288 Posts
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InsertSmurfHere
288 Posts
Don't worry about who I am, worry about how I play. That's the point of this exercise anyway. | ||
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InsertSmurfHere
288 Posts
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InsertSmurfHere
288 Posts
On March 25 2013 04:26 Hapahauli wrote: I KNOW WHO YOU ARE MR SMURF DON'T OUT ME TO THE THREAD AND DON'T USE META BECAUSE I'M CHANGING IT INTENTIONALLY. <3 Hapa | ||
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InsertSmurfHere
288 Posts
On March 26 2013 11:53 strongandbig wrote: Why are you trying to imitate blazing hand trying to imitate his own meta? Everyone plz discuss dandel ion. Gladly. When I read through Dandel's filter, I have an extremely difficult time finding any coherent thought process to his game. He posts quite a few spammy, nonsensical posts that have very little purpose aside from simply adding pages to the thread. Observe: On March 26 2013 08:07 Dandel Ion wrote: Also, your name is too complacted and I already call you rainpelikan in my mind, so you're now stuck with that. It's offical, and won't be changed. On March 26 2013 08:10 Dandel Ion wrote: Hi thar, pink unicorn. Or maybe your parents really called you Hapa, in which case, my condolences. On March 26 2013 10:38 Dandel Ion wrote: I detect unnecessarily large quantities of mad. Might be colored in red. Or purple. Maybe a dash of yellow in there. Can not be sure yet. Now, the question is, how does Dandel normally start a game as mafia? To answer that we have to find the last game he was scum in: British Empire 2 How do you characterize that filter? To me, it's very similar to this game. he starts the game with random nonsensical bullshit and silly attempts at trolling and scumhunting. Especially striking is the resemblance between his early "push" of DrH in that game and Marvellosity in this game. Again, observe: From British On March 05 2013 10:06 Dandel Ion wrote: Instead of using instant majority to make the days longer, we should use it to make them faster! ##Vote DrHelvetica Gogo! On March 05 2013 10:14 Dandel Ion wrote: I am now 110% sure On March 05 2013 10:16 Dandel Ion wrote: You're not seeing the bigger picture. Too concerned with your own survival too. Certainity is rising to 130% From RED On March 26 2013 08:12 Dandel Ion wrote: What a scummy bandwagon of scum. Hey Acro, come over here. Let's tunnel marv. It'll be fun. On March 26 2013 08:27 Dandel Ion wrote: Why wouldn't he be? That's how I plan on finding scum. The scum besides marv, that is. On March 26 2013 08:37 Dandel Ion wrote: I don't see how I'm supposed to be provoking you either, I'm just calling you scum. If you get mad cause I'm so correct and awesome, not much I can do about that. These sorts of early shenanigans develop similarly both games. He offhandedly calls someone scum for little to no reason, and then needlessly trolls that person and pushes this read on the thread. Again, he is spammy in his pushes as mafia and rarely provides any real justification for anything he does that is longer than a single line. The meta similarity is just a part of why I think Dandel is mafia. Revisiting the quotes above where Dandel attacks Marvellosity, we see a clear mafia motivation: attack a player who is known for being emotional and overreacting to these sorts of things. Marvel makes a salient point in that Dandel SHOULD know better, as he bore witness to this. However, Dandel persists in the same sort of trollish way he has this entire game. The only other thing that even looks like a real read in his filter is his support of Palmar, which is in the same vein of his entire play; nonsensical, and without justification. While being a sheep doesn't make him scum necessarily, the fact that he has since bowed out of the thread entirely is suspicious. So far, it looks like he's fishing around for a good place for his vote; mild suspicion here, random name-calling here, and then he finally sees a high-profile player come in and proclaim someone mafia, so he jumps on it. So instead of letting this spammy, scummy fucker slip by under the shadow of Palmar, why don't we lynch him instead? ##Vote: Dandel Ion | ||
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InsertSmurfHere
288 Posts
From your filter, that is what I surmise is your opinion of him already. If that's the case, I guess you're content to let him lurk away the rest of day 1 as he intends? Or...? | ||
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InsertSmurfHere
288 Posts
Regardless, you seem a little too content to let him do nothing but troll this game. Your faith that he is going so magically do something different than he has so far is misplaced, in my opinion. | ||
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InsertSmurfHere
288 Posts
Fine, we'll play the waiting game you suggest. In the mean time, I'll look through some other filters. His was simply the most egregious at the moment. Hopefully some of the lurkier players like sinani and nisani start posting more. | ||
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InsertSmurfHere
288 Posts
On March 26 2013 13:01 Acrofales wrote: Meh. Later in the game. No alarm bells have gone off yet. DI will spam fluff regardless of alignment. Later on in D1 and as the game continues I expect more from him. Voting for him now is basically a policy lynch on his playstyle. Imho, there is nothing indicative of alignment from him so far. What do you think of Palmar? Palmar looks town. He always comes in the thread saying someone is scum or lynch someone in every game I've played with him. I've never seen scum Palmar, so perhaps I am biased, but he seems earnest in his attempts to lead town. As for his target, grack, I'm not as convinced as he is. The guy is timid, sure, but a short filter this early in the game does not a scum make. I'm more willing to let that play out organically. The fact that Palmar comes in the thread firing away at this player obviously makes it so that he's even more aware of how he's posting, which makes it seem even weirder. While it's nothing against Palmar, it does make it more difficult to know if this is just Grack's general mentality as a player or if it is just a result of the pressure he feels. | ||
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InsertSmurfHere
288 Posts
I specifically remember games like Personality where he makes REASONED posts as town and manages to look town. This game, he has FAILED to do that. Is it that difficult to understand? Perhaps he has yet to do some kind of awesome townie move, as you suggest, but I remain skeptical. I'll concede that the opening point wasn't an overly strong one. Obviously you've managed to prove that he trolls as town. Grand, so I guess we just ignore him until he doesn't troll. | ||
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InsertSmurfHere
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I think you're a good enough player to know how people read you, Hapa. | ||
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On March 26 2013 13:51 Acrofales wrote: I am really surprised that you have Hapa down as obvious town. I don't think it's that obvious at all. Especially given Hapa's rather tricksy scumplay. Yeah, no. | ||
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InsertSmurfHere
288 Posts
Corazon. That dude's filter is a lot of nothing. Many other players have managed to take stances and interact with the thread on at least a basic level, but he's currently completely flying under the radar. | ||
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InsertSmurfHere
288 Posts
On March 26 2013 23:31 InsertSmurfHere wrote: You know who I really haven't seen anything out of today at all? Corazon. That dude's filter is a lot of nothing. Many other players have managed to take stances and interact with the thread on at least a basic level, but he's currently completely flying under the radar. To expand upon this, when Cora is town he at least does something, normally aggressive. Here he's kind of playing third-party to the stuff going on in the thread. The most he's written about it the stupid role PM thing, which is concerning. I would expect him to have honestly attempted some line of suspicion by now. | ||
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288 Posts
On March 26 2013 23:34 marvellosity wrote: What distinguishes Corazon to you, as opposed to say prplhz? Prplhz I have seen be lurky early as town, but by the end of day 1 I expect to know his alignment. He's good enough as town to put forth effort justifying his suspicions. Cora I have not seen act this lurky early. Perhaps it is too early, but as I said, my expectation is for him to be more involved than even his current posting suggests he is with this game. | ||
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InsertSmurfHere
288 Posts
Like I said, my experience with town Dandel is that he does make decent reads that have some sort of logic behind them. I had seen none of that at that point, so I made known my suspicion of him. The jury is still out on that one, but he looks better for having some reason for attacking Marv than he did before. | ||
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288 Posts
On March 26 2013 23:54 Oatsmaster wrote: You understand that that reason is cause 'I dont see any towntells' as opposed to marv is scum cause *post* Is that a valid reason in your opinion or not? I don't think he's right, obviously. I've seen plenty of town Marv games where Marv doesn't even try to look town. However, it's not if he's right or if I agree with him, it's that he simply justifies what he's doing with something beyond a troll post and seems actually confident in it. Like his suspicion of me. It's total OMGUS but I don't think he's scum for it. | ||
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On March 27 2013 00:00 Oatsmaster wrote: So if I do stupid shit but wholeheartadly go with it and give some weird reason I am town? What universe do you live in? Response to Palmers suspicion GOOO Palmar is calling me scum because my case is bad, just like the rest of you. I fail to see how it's anything special. And yes, sometimes people do stupid shit I never agree with and that lets me know they are town. And yes, you are one of them. | ||
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288 Posts
On March 26 2013 23:59 Dandel Ion wrote: Horseshit. You were doing this: "let's see how scum Dandel normally opens his games! Oh my that looks similar to this game! I won't even check any of his town games and call him scum just for the hell of it hey guys look how protown and scumhunting I am!" Now you do this: "Oh shit I made a terrible case on a townie BACKPEDALBACKPEDAL" In my case on you I clearly said I expected better from you, Dandel. My experience from the first British and Personality is that you aren't just a troll, but as I see you just need time to flower. | ||
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InsertSmurfHere
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On March 27 2013 00:06 Oatsmaster wrote: Too many townreads dude. Who is scum, now that Dandel Ion isnt? I already told you that Corazon is currently flying under the radar while contributing next-to-nothing aside from random comments on OO' role PM shit. | ||
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InsertSmurfHere
288 Posts
On March 27 2013 00:10 Dandel Ion wrote: And why did you need to make a shitty case to realize this "experience"? Because there are times when you call people out for posting like idiots at the start of the game, and this was one of them. I initially thought it might be alignment indicative but I've since been proven wrong. You can fault me for not doing more research, but I did think I was more familiar with you than I was. | ||
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InsertSmurfHere
288 Posts
On March 27 2013 00:11 Oatsmaster wrote: What makes Cora different from the other lurkers like sinani or nisani? I've called them out, too. Are you reading my filter? | ||
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288 Posts
On March 27 2013 00:11 cDgCorazon wrote: Hi. Thanks Mr. Smurf for calling me lurky when I was asleep. If you're going to make silly meta reads on me, it's not going to get you anywhere. In all honesty this thread has still been ridiculously chaotic. After the tragedy that was Personality Mafia, I'm trying to only post when I have thoughts and cases to make. Right now we are just switching from one lynch target to the other and not really getting anything done besides calling each other scum. As much as the hosts love to troll, I don't think that they made everyone scum. Sorry guys. To add my thoughts to the ring, I'm still convinced that Rayn is scum. He's following the thread sentiment to the letter. He's just attacking whoever has the heat at the time. Less than 24 hours into the game, he has already attacked the following people: Prphlz (voted) Me Marv Keir OO (voted) Oats + Show Spoiler + That's 40% of the people in the game... The other problem I have with this is that Rayn is not following through with any of his arguments (besides the OO vote). He's quite content to go after multiple people and not back his sentiments up. It's scummy because he's just trying to look like he is scumhunting, when in reality he is just shitting up the thread and sheeping on whoever is the flavor of the month (or by this thread's standards, flavor of the 10 minutes). That's not town-motivated behavior, it's scummy behavior. ##Vote: Raynpelikoneet If there's any questions for me I'd love to hear them. How about a read not on rayn? He's kinda the only dude you talk about. | ||
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InsertSmurfHere
288 Posts
On March 27 2013 00:19 cDgCorazon wrote: I've already called Acro out for overreacting to things. Having reads on 5 people is going to lead to Personality Mafia-like conditions. I'm not doing that again. You're not even paying attention to my reads, you just want to see me throw sub-standard crap out. I'm not falling for the bait. No, I want you to post reads that mean something. Acro "overreacting" is not a read, it's an observation. What does that day about his alignment? Does he do this as town? As scum? Is overreacting a general scum tell? Why? | ||
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InsertSmurfHere
288 Posts
I'm asking for you to expand upon your reads. It shouldn't be that difficult if you're actually town. | ||
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The fact that he dropped his tunnel is not a point in his favor, because literally no one was buying it. Right now I have no reason to think this guy is town when I have been more than able to do so in games past. | ||
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Grack's continued disappearance despite promising some sort of reads post is highly concerning. I think the dude is scum who knows he's caught. I am not voting for prp, but I want to talk to Hapa about that. | ||
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InsertSmurfHere
288 Posts
On March 27 2013 14:31 Hapahauli wrote: Moderately. I haven't done a thorough examination of it, HOWEVER I was mason buddies with him in Rockband Mini. His play so far is strikingly different. In addition, his play is objectively very scummy and lynchable. I'll make the rounds through his other games tomorrow to be super certain, but I'm not expecting to find anything to help his cause. Look at day 1 of Nomination. I know you've read that game. | ||
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On March 27 2013 14:35 Hapahauli wrote: If anything, Nomination Mini supports my case. If you think low activity is alignment indicative out of prplhz, you're wrong. While it's true that he's done little this game, he isn't acting trollish or distant with town when he is posting, as he does normally when he's mafia. He posts little and rarely as both alignments. | ||
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On March 27 2013 14:49 Hapahauli wrote: Have you read prplzh filter? Go and read it, then get back to me and tell me he's not "distant." I've heard of a ton of meta arguments, but this is the most retarded one. Prplzh has posted next to nothing, has soft-pushed half the thread, hasn't made a single original contribution, and somehow you arrive at the fact that he's not scum. It's quite easy. Read yamato's analysis of prplhz's meta from Nomination. When you look at his filter from LIX, it is blatantly antagonistic with town and completely uninvolved. Do these posts read trollish to you? On March 27 2013 05:09 prplhz wrote: @sinani206 Why haven't you been playing mafia for ages and what made you suddenly come back to this game? @Acrofales What you think about Palmar? What did Nisani201 say to make you think that he is scum? Just a line or two, I'm not a big fan of huge posts. And yes, I did read your filter so please bear with me if there was something I didn't understand and say it one more time  @InsertSmurfHere That can't be true unless you're like ... no, that can't be true. On March 27 2013 11:19 prplhz wrote: Some people do that when they get frustrated. I think he's frustrated and that's why he's doing it. @Palmar Why is Acrofales town? On March 27 2013 11:29 prplhz wrote: If anybody else knows why Acrofales is town I'm also interested in their answers. Here he's clearly following a line of thought with a few people. While his interaction is minimal, it is far from being distant. This does not read like the mafia prplhz I know. What concerns me about all this is how lazy you are with this push on prplhz. I really think you don't know him well if you think low activity = scum in his case. What is MOST concerning, however, is how easily Nisani jumps in with you. Observe: On March 27 2013 12:41 Nisani201 wrote: I don't understand why we're still taking about this meta stuff. Just because OO’s play style is different in this game than another doesn't make him scum. In fact, it means absolutely nothing. I agree that prplhz has been flying under the radar and he could be scum. I want to hear other's thoughts on it though. On March 27 2013 13:10 Nisani201 wrote: Alright, throwing my vote on prplhz. Not gonna do the ## thing here though because I'm on my tablet. Two posts, barely mentions prplhz, and he's on the wagon. Regardless of prplhz's alignment, this looks terrible. He's even less concerned with figuring out the game than prplhz appears to be. | ||
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InsertSmurfHere
288 Posts
On March 27 2013 15:00 Hapahauli wrote: Ok there is no way you actually read his filter. According to you, he acts "trollish" and is "distant." Describe to me how he's not distant based on his sparse posting so far? Trollish... oh wait: What gives Mr.Smurf? That's not trolling. He's not antagonizing anyone, nor is he proposing a stupid policy lynch. Seriously, look at LIX and draw comparisons between that and this game. I don't see it. | ||
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On March 27 2013 15:07 cDgCorazon wrote: I love how you go from me/Grack to Nisani once a couple of people say they think I'm town. Pretty sketch in my eyes. I'm waiting for you to do something besides make stupid, snarky comments. People don't want to lynch you, apparently, but if you are mafia, you aren't the only one. | ||
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InsertSmurfHere
288 Posts
Like, I just posted one of his fucking reads. Holy balls. | ||
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On March 27 2013 15:11 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm not making stupid, snarky comments. I'm calling things as I see them. What I read the last sentence as: "I think you are scum but no one else does so I'm gonna say I don't think you are scum". That's not a very town thing to say. If you have any actual reasons that make you scum that don't make you sound like a hypocrite I would love to hear them. No, it's calling you scum but saying that town doesn't want to lynch you, SO I LOOK AT OTHER PEOPLE Fucking flood control | ||
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InsertSmurfHere
288 Posts
On March 27 2013 15:13 Hapahauli wrote: No you didn't. Post it again, because if you're honestly comparing his posting this game to his reads from Nomination mini, you're either blind, drunk, or scum. No, I'm contrasting it with his SCUM PLAY from LIX. You know, that thing that was analysed in the post you quoted? Did you even look at his filter from that game? Have you read Marv's meta case on scum prplhz? If not, you're just attacking him on a weak basis. I know town prplhz to have low activity. | ||
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InsertSmurfHere
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On March 27 2013 05:18 prplhz wrote: @Keirathi @strongandbig I voted Grackaroni for all the reasons presented by Palmar, Hapahauli and Keirathi. I liked them all. He's also the best lynch. I haven't been around much so far which is the explanation for why I didn't post a lot. Just got up to date on the thread. My Grackaroni vote was around page 16 and nothing has changed my mind since that. Sheep vote or note, it's a fucking read. On March 27 2013 05:31 prplhz wrote: @strongandbig I didn't really follow the raynpelikoneet debacles because he's posting a lot and picking fights with everybody and he's grandmother and that's a plus for now. HOLY SHIT, THAT LOOKS LIKE HE'S CALLING SOMEONE TOWN On March 27 2013 11:19 prplhz wrote: Some people do that when they get frustrated. I think he's frustrated and that's why he's doing it. @Palmar Why is Acrofales town? YEP, NOT ONLY THAT, BUT HE THINKS ACRO ISN'T TOWN! On March 27 2013 11:29 prplhz wrote: If anybody else knows why Acrofales is town I'm also interested in their answers. WOW, A STUNNINGLY DIFFICULT THING TO ANALYSE FROM SUCH A COMPLEX POST On March 27 2013 13:40 prplhz wrote: I thought it was really weird that Nisani201 thought that Palmar's case on Grackaroni was bullshit yet he didn't seem to think that Palmar was scum. Palmar is a guy who you can rely on having good reads for good reason but Nisani201 just dismissed the read without trying at all to put any pressure on Palmar and I found that weird so I poked him. Here he even explains why he does the "poking" you think he's so scummy for, because he thinks Nisani acted ignorant of the way he usually reads Palmar, HOLY FUCK. Know what else that tells you, HE PROBABLY THINKS PALMAR IS TOWN Like, it's not that fucking hard if you just read. | ||
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InsertSmurfHere
288 Posts
Let's look through that LIX filter and find where mafia prplhz gives a read. ... It's not fucking there. He doesn't even try to do anything but defend himself and justify a policy lynch on Chezinu. Like, wtf. The difference is striking. | ||
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InsertSmurfHere
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I'll just wait until you realize the huge fucking logical error you make in that post. | ||
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Seriously. | ||
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why would scum dayvig him? | ||
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Looks like a blue snipe to me, honestly. | ||
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On March 27 2013 15:47 Keirathi wrote: One scum game does not a scum meta make. Just like one town game does not a town meta make. I'm only giving you quotes specifically from Nomination because YOU BROUGHT IT UP. I can go link other town prplhz quotes to back me up if you want. And, your point completely falls apart when you look at other scum prplhz games. Hell, look at http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925 and compare it with LIX. They don't look alike. It looks the fucking same. Defending himself, stupid policy lynch idea, etc. Like, can you even read? FROM GSL: On September 06 2012 06:09 prplhz wrote: @Risen Could you please tell me why you are voting me? Your explanation appears to be some metaphor that doesn't make any sense to me. On September 06 2012 06:31 prplhz wrote: [/url]Fuck it. I can't believe that Risen can be serious about this. It's three posts into the game and the two posts before me were nonsense. He is actually trying to make a full case on me and I just can't believe he is serious about this. No benefit of the dumb here. Contrast this with his first vote in his latest game (clink). It's a pressure vote for someone who made a dumb vote but it's a while into the game and it's got more of a "whim" feeling about it. This looks a lot more careful but [u]we're three dumb posts into the game. I just can't believe this. ##Vote Risen FROM LIX: On January 20 2013 10:43 prplhz wrote: i am running for mayor i will lynch chezinu that's non negotiable @Vivax Why are you running for mayor? All you say is "I might do this, I might do that, I don't like scum, vote for me." and it seems like you don't know why you are running for mayor either. Why would we put you into office over these vets that you're not going to lynch because of how valuable they are to town? On January 21 2013 04:53 prplhz wrote: @DearestSnot I don't like the idea of lynching me. Why do you want to lynch me? On January 21 2013 09:47 prplhz wrote: when no one has posted chezinu is clearly the best lynch. the guy is a lunatic in more ways than i care to know about and most importantly, he never seems very occupied with anything but himself and his lunacy and this makes for bad reads on him. if you don't want to get read then i believe it's a lot harder to play with you and chezinu is one of these (maybe the only one). why would i "delurk" when you call me out but not when sandroba called me out? that makes no sense, sandroba is SANDROBA and you're just some german with a low post count. it makes a lot more sense that i was just around at that particular time especially considering that it was around 6pm iirc. no i'm not worrying too much about who to lynch right now. i read gonzaw and he seems like a perfectly good mayor candidate to me and the scum reads i have are pretty i'm not sure about them at all. that's why i asked who he wanted to lynch, so i could read up on that person. i don't see the JX thing that sandro sees. i don't really care for you irrationally going for me because i seem to recall that you do that i most of your games. i think it's really weird that you're not spamming more though but maybe that's because you were smurfing and you didn't want to play like you usually do, you picked it up after you revealed yourself. Looks like a fucking scum meta to me! | ||
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InsertSmurfHere
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I will say, I like the Nisani case. I said it before, dude is just lurking while we argue about everyone else. | ||
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I have about an hour, so let's make this quick. | ||
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Not mafia. | ||
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And yes, you are lazy for this push on him because you failed to accurately discern his town and scum play. You went "it's different from his town games!!!1!!!!1" without ever trying to draw a meaningful comparison to his mafia games. Yes, this type of stupid push is exactly what I expect out of mafia Hapa, but the fact that you've retracted it is a point in your favor. You're someone that needs convincing on the Nisani thing. I argue with people over their reads to get them to lynch my scum reads. It happens all the time. | ||
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Oats isn't going to listen to me. Marv is pursuing Nisani. Prplhz has expressed interest. Why not lynch Nisani? What makes you think he's town? | ||
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On March 28 2013 04:00 Hapahauli wrote: So counter-question - talk to me about Sinani a bit. Why is he town? He's officially my top scumread nao. ##Vote Sinani Sinani is in my lurker-null category. But he's less of a good lynch than Nisani, simply because he came in with a case pushing Nisani when you were koo-koo for prpl-puffs. Coulda been really easy to just sheep you and start assailing me/prplhz at that time, but he didn't. | ||
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On March 28 2013 04:10 Hapahauli wrote: So what? Scum dont' have to sheep. In fact scum really don't want to sheep a mislynch wagon. They often want to be on a 3rd party wagon and look like they've made an original contribution. But talk to me about Nisani a bit. I dont' see any difference between this game and some of his other town games. And as far as I know, people are getting on him for the prplhz sheep vote that he apparently made from his iPad. How the hell is that allignment indicative? Because it was a terrible vote out of nowhere while he's already under suspicion. It looks like survival-minded play of a scum who thinks he's half-caught. The fact that he never even tries to justify it beyond anything is egregious. | ||
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288 Posts
my vote goes to Nisani. | ||
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Too easy. | ||
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With Keir? And town bought it? WTF. | ||
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LOL. | ||
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Patience is a Virtue Wait, Bitch. etc. | ||
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It seems like the only reason you think I'm scum is that I'm better at reading him than you. What gives? | ||
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And no, those posts are not equally capable of coming from scum prplhz. If you managed to even look at his fucking filters from scum games with any sort of rational thought, you'd see EXACTLY how I've been able to accurately read his alignment. Mafia prplhz FEELS different from town prplhz, and to qualify that, he FEELS trollish and completely self-interested. Did prplhz seem overly interested in how people read him at that point? No. Most of his posts were actually talking about other people, as opposed to defending himself. Mafia prplhz is easy to figure out. Mafia prplhz doesn't post unless town figures out that he's mafia. Mafia prplhz doesn't even fucking try to have reads. Mafia prplhz has a stupid policy lynch idea every game. You (and Hapa) both failed to realize this difference. You were utterly stuck in this "PRPLHZ IS SCUM BECAUSE HE'S LIKE, NOT TOWNIE!!!111!" which has been used to justify prplhz mislynches MANY times in the past when he's not town. Looking at how mafia prplhz was caught in LIX by a smurfing Marv, it's by comparison to relevant mafia games, not by contrasting his play against his town games. Really, this seems like a bullshit reason to be calling me mafia. There are many players that I can tell are town or not very quickly in this game, simply because I have played with them before as both alignments and know their mentality. Prplhz is one. Hapa is another. It's not difficult to discern these players because either their town play or their scum play is VERY DISTINCT, and it's very easy to identify early on. What concerns me about you is how little original thought you've put into this. It seems you're just riding off the trails of Hapa's accusations and arguments against me for quite a while now. What else besides this completely fucking wrong prplhz point makes me mafia? If you're going to call me your "top scumread" I want to hear it. I also want to talk about Corazon, because he's really the lynchpin in why I don't believe that either of you are town, and why I want to challenge that notion. What has he really done this game? He's called me mafia most of this game, but how reliable is that? What reasons does he give? Almost none. A lot of his comments on me being mafia are, as I said before, snarky and pointless pokes at me while I'm engaged in conversation with someone else. Plus, when I look at his filter, he never really TRIES to get me lynched. His only vote on me comes during a time when I was arguing with Hapa about prplhz, and it was quickly detracted. It's almost as if he's afraid to openly challenge me about my alignment, which is not something that I am used to seeing Cora do. Town Cora is usually quite UNafraid to proclaim someone scum and try to get them lynched, but what did Cora actually do today? He sheep voted on Nisani in one line. He didn't even try to argue that I was mafia, he just "consolidated" on the day's mislynch, and then defended you. Now, the defending part is alignment NULL because you two would do this either way, masons or mafia, but the sheep vote is not. Town Cora does not just blindly sheep a wagon when he's been "tunneling" a player the whole day like he had with me. However, mafia Cora is good at accurately identifying thread sentiment and getting himself on town's wagon, as evidenced by his first ever game on this forum, which was newbie 33 I believe. To me, this tunnel feels like a weak imitation of Cora's usual town play. It doesn't contain the FORCE or AGGRESSION that a normal Cora tunnel contains. It's passive-aggressive, which is something I associate more with scum play than town play. I feel like he's just following the general thread sentiment given by Hapa that I am mafia and going with it, rather than that he actually believes I am mafia. | ||
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On March 28 2013 16:03 Keirathi wrote: You are wildly blowing my read of prplhz out of proportion. Maybe that's because you drew me into an argument so I started replying to specific things instead of general things, but prplhz in its simplest form is: town prplhz cares about town, scum prplhz doesn't. I've PLAYED scum with prplhz. I even went back and looked through our irc logs. He told me multiple times that he wasn't even reading the thread, and all of his cases/pushes were just made up. (Also your "policy lynch" thing is bullshit. Scum prplhz didn't propose a policy lynch in GSL 1. But again, meta isn't about specifics. Its about broad playstyle similarities/difference.) It should be "scum prplhz only cares about himself" because that's how he plays. Look, you can argue with me about whether or not those posts made him look like town or not, but the fact of the matter is, I know how to read prplhz I fucking read all of his posts and TOLD YOU GUYS WHAT HIS READS WERE. And then, I showed you that MAFIA PRPLHZ DOESN'T EVEN HAVE READS. And you fucking ignored me. | ||
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What else makes me scum, because this is played out. | ||
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On March 28 2013 16:11 Keirathi wrote: That is just patently false. And you wonder why I question your 100% townread on prplhz. :o No, it's not. Show me in either of GSL or LIX where mafia prplhz gives a read that isn't Chezinu, or OMGUS. And then show me how that read is at all similar to how he began this game. | ||
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We don't have to have a "conversation" for you to post things about me that aren't questioning my methods of reading people. | ||
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Whatever, I'm going to bed too. This thread is hopeless. | ||
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Good stuff. | ||
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1) Blow away the completely valid meta analysis of how you've played this game versus your town games 2) Overrate how much effort you put into finding the lynch 3) "WELL YOU'RE JUST AS BAD AS ME!!!!!" 4) Post a bunch of snarky comments and call them "scumhunting" I am blown away. These are my notes so I know how to do it next time I roll scum. | ||
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On March 28 2013 16:26 Keirathi wrote: It is important. You can't say "SCUM PRPLHZ NEVER HAS ANY READS" because it demonstrably not true. Maybe scum prplhz didn't have reads in GSL or LIX, but "NEVER" and GSL+LIX are two completely different things. I'VE NEVER SEEN Which is the relevant part of this argument in the first place. | ||
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We'll see how this develops tomorrow. I'll be pursuing a different line of thought at that point. You two are going to be hard scum to lynch, if I'm right. | ||
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You truly haven't even tried to get me lynched, but you've been calling me scum the whole game for terrible reasons Yet again, I'm not interested in pursuing this further. It won't go anywhere right now until the rest of town figures out that your mason claim is bullshit. | ||
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On March 28 2013 16:39 cDgCorazon wrote: "You've been calling me scum, yet haven't pursued me. But I just want to call you scum and then not pursue you anymore" What? That's a gross oversimplification of this situation. The fact that between the two of you, you have one solid scum read (me), and that your strongest claim to being town is being masoned with each other is just ridiculous. However, what I do know is that town realizing this takes time, and during that point in time, there are other things worth pursuing. | ||
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On March 28 2013 16:40 Keirathi wrote: Why was Smurf 100% absolutely positively sure that prplhz was town last night, before all the rest of what prplhz posted after the one I quoted? BECAUSE I LOVE BEING RIGHT basically | ||
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Nah, just better than you. ;] | ||
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1. If Smurf is Yamato, he has played at least 2 games with a town DI (British 1 and Personality 2) and thus cannot simply claim ignorance of how DI plays as town. Even if he can be forgiven the remarkable oversight of not looking at DI's townplay, his excuse of ignorance here is a lie. This is bullshit, and quite obviously evidence that you're not reading my filter. I specifically mentioned that I have not played with Dandel from the very beginning of the game, and that my experience with town Dandel is not that he's an idiot. If you looked into either of those games, you would realize that he was a replacement in both, and a troll in neither. Given this, how do you think that I'm lying? 2. His scumreads: All 3 of his scumreads throughout the game:Grackaroni, Cora and Nisani. I painted Cora green, because I doubt this is a power play by the scumteam to claim mason. This is bullshit. By this metric, I could easily call Hapa or Palmar mafia, but I don't because it's fucking stupid. You're not this bad. So... the MOST concerting part of the prplhz case is how easily Nisani jumps on the wagon. So suddenly Nisani has been bombarded to scum, as part of the whole prplhz = town crusade. From that point onwards he never even questions anything else and just blindly wants to lynch Nisani. Yes, it was concerning. I openly questioned Hapa's motives with the prplhz thing, because I don't see how one who had done his research could see prplhz as mafia. But I give Hapa slack, because he's been wrong before. However, I won't give Nisani slack, even now as confirmed town, for mindlessly sheeping on the wagon without a second thought. That SEEMS to be what you're accusing me of, even though it wasn't, yet you can't seem to understand why I found it scummy from Nisani? Bullshit. Irrational defense of prlhz. I would quote posts, but it shat up the thread for about 3 pages. I don't even think this says anything about prplhz's alignment. I can see a scum doing this for a townie (defend the innocent for townie points, when no scumbuddy is in danger of being lynched) or a scumbuddy (given that the alternative at the time was my push on Nisani, which he promptly sheeped he could have been defending his buddy), but the whole thing feels like Smurf had made up his mind before even starting to post on what prplhz's alignment was and was going to defend that stance to the death. And while some of the points he made make sense, when I looked at prplhz's filter at the time, it just read like a scum filter, so it's the complete lack of DOUBT about the alignment that strikes me. That is not the critical mindset of a townie. Total bullshit. "It just read like a scum filter"? What kind of "critical mindset" is that? You don't even bother to address the meta point that you say "make sense", you just blow them off as nothing, when in reality, THAT WAS THE WHOLE ARGUMENT. Yes, it shat up the thread. No, it gave me ZERO town cred, and how would it anyway? Most of town was null or against prplhz at that point, so who is giving me town cred for it besides prplhz, and how much is that town cred even worth? Really, this is pathetic. What's even more pathetic is that these are the arguments that people have against me, and that they're all based upon ridiculous assumptions like the ones you've made here. But really, I want to talk about you, Acro, because this case is just a little too perfectly timed. What about the Nisani flip makes you any more ready to call me mafia than before? Why didn't you bring this up before the lynch, when it was all still relevant? Or are you just using the pathetically stupid and lazy idea that my being on Nisani's wagon is evidence of me being mafia? Because if that's the case, THERE ARE TWELVE OTHER PEOPLE who voted him with me, you included, and most of them after me. One such person is Marv, but I'll get to him when I'm done with you. | ||
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On March 29 2013 00:35 Dandel Ion wrote: So you say you havn't played with me, but you still have experience with my townplay. .... scum lies are scum lies. Can you even read? | ||
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On March 29 2013 00:34 Hapahauli wrote: @ Yamato My larger concern with you is how little of worth you've done on Day 1. Your scumhunting contributions are a Dandel meta case with terribly obvious logical flaw, and "Oh hey Nisani made a sheep vote, lets lynch him." (One could possibly add your "passionate" defense of prplhz, but that's defending a townie, and not scumhunting.) Now your Day 1 is problematic for several reasons. 1) You've been "captain-meta-pants" this game, yet completely failed to look into Nisani's meta. At all. You love meta arguments as town, and I get no hint from your filter that you even looked into his game history. 2) You were foaming at the mouth defending prplhz, and I don't see that effort anywhere else in your filter when it comes to pushing a scum-case or hunting scum. 3) The only effort you make into pushing the Nisani lynch is questioning your top town read (myself) about Nisani's alignment. 4) I still have absolutely no clue how on earth you were that convinced that prplhz was town at the time. This has been beaten to death though, so w/e. I mean like half of your Day 1 filter is spent screaming at me about how Prplhz is town. Half. Take that out, and it reveals how little scumhunting you've actually done so far. And to add to that, you're pushing the claimed mason pair right now. I await what you have to write on that subject, but it looks pretty terrible. I'll address this after class. | ||
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On March 29 2013 00:46 marvellosity wrote: The issue being, of course, that he's never played with Dandel right from the get go, but attempted to make a meta case based on this period of time without checking this phase of the game in Dandel's town games. In other words he's making a meta case on Dandel's opening play, having never seen Dandel's opening play as town. It's at the very best extremely sloppy. While I admit, not looking at a Dandel town game from the beginning was an oversight, what I did do was look at his scum game that I hadn't looked at before, and drew comparisons to what I believed to be unique information, given my former impression of his town play in games. I normally don't even do that, I simply draw from past personal experience, as many of you know. Me looking at someone's meta outside of a game I wasn't involved in is rare. As I said before, you can fault me for not looking at his other town games. I had little idea that he was such a blatant troll as either alignment early on in the game. | ||
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That's easy to fix. More coming after the dealine, in 11 hours from now. | ||
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Acro smells like mafia. You can say his play is different from Personality, but his read on me is simply an echo of things people have said before at an opportune time to throw all kinds of suspicion on me in the midst of you calling for my head tomorrow. I want to look more into the Nisani/Acro ordeal and actually figure out what was going on there, because his town flip makes me more inclined to think Acro might actually be mafia who OMGUS'd a townie. You guys are talking a lot about SNB, and it is true that he is far less townish than I read him at a similar point in time during personality. I've never experienced scum SNB, but I'll take my look at some of those games out of curiosity when I have time later, and make my own decision. I am also taking an interest in rayn, because I'm not sure where his reads are at right now, and I feel like he's in a group of players who really didn't do a whole lot day 1 but push a single read and then consolidate with town in the end. Dandel looked better to me earlier, but his general disinterest in town's affairs and his lackadaisical mafia read of me concerns me. At first it felt like he was just OMGUSing me out of surprise, but he's stuck with it and not done much else, which is quite bad. Under no pressure, he fails to even engage in the thread beyond one-liners and calling me/snb scum, so the possibility exists that he is just lurky mafia riding off the back of everyone calling him likely-town in response to my case on him. | ||
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Prplhz Hapa Palmar Oats OO Null: Rayn Marv Sinani SNB Mafia: Acro Dandel Ignore: Cora/Keir Yes, I'm going to ignore them. I'm suspicious of them, but do you really want me going around tomorrow making cases on Corazon, the claimed mason? Waste of time, even if I am right. No one is going to listen to me. The difference between Acro and prplhz is that you don't read prplhz by how "objectively scummy" he is, while you can certainly do that with a more active and engaged person like Acro. Meta matters more in prplhz' case. And yes, Dandel is possibly mafia. While it apparently isn't "satifying" to you, it's how I view him at this point, because of how little he's done since all of what went on. Did I not specifically tell you this might happen, should he not be put under pressure? Rayn did push OO, and that's about it. It was a hard push, but I'm nowhere near convinced that the guy is mafia. As you guys have been pointing out, a look into the last game he played as mafia gives you the impression that he struggles to post as mafia, which is nothing like the impression I get from his filter here. He is giving a clear effort, and is actually looking into objectively good things to be looking at, like the Nisani/Acro ordeal. | ||
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On March 29 2013 03:53 Keirathi wrote: EBWOP: Also, you said I was the townier of the two of us. So, if I'm scum, why did I name Cora as my mason partner, instead of a different teammate who didn't look so bad? I was the one getting lynched, not Cora. Or, even better, why didn't I claim a different role that didn't tie myself to a teammate at all? Cora, objectively, was not a bad choice for a scum Keirathi in that position to choose to claim mason with. If you're both scum, he was in very little danger of getting lynched, and indeed has been talked about very little since. People don't suspect him much, aside from me. Confirmed-town mason is also a very strong role to claim to get someone out of a lynch, as you've seen here. It works better than cop or doctor, because there are TWO people claiming it, and the likelihood of either of you being shot just for claiming mason with each other if you are town is quite low. It also lends him town-cred as well, which helps two mafia survive longer than a single-role claim would. All in all, it's actually not that risky of a claim, both in the nature of the role itself, and in your choice of partner. | ||
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On March 29 2013 03:59 Hapahauli wrote: "No one is going to listen to me therefore I wont' bother making a case" is the last thing I'd ever expect to hear from town-Yamato. Pushing cases against-all-odds is kinda your thing. I'm not 100% confident in my read on him. Like I said, he's tunneled me when we were both town twice in games past, so it's not THAT far out of the ordinary. The way he's done it is kinda different, but it's not enough to make me want to pursue him over my other reads tomorrow. | ||
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On March 29 2013 04:00 Hapahauli wrote: And if you have a role, I suggest you claim it. Why would I do that? The lynch is over 2 days away. Plenty of time to make sure you guys don't act like idiots and lynch me. | ||
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On March 29 2013 04:03 Hapahauli wrote: You still have not discussed why Kei is scummy. What concerns me about you is how little original thought you've put into this. It seems you're just riding off the trails of Hapa's accusations and arguments against me for quite a while now. What else besides this completely fucking wrong prplhz point makes me mafia? If you're going to call me your "top scumread" I want to hear it. Why I found Keir scummy at the time. Attack me over something I'm right about, and have no other reason to call me mafia. | ||
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On March 29 2013 04:07 Hapahauli wrote: If I'm a vigi, you only have 3 hours to live. That would be a stupid decision, but I'm just Vanilla Town, bro. | ||
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On March 29 2013 04:12 Keirathi wrote: But, that doesn't jive with everything you said about my in Hydra (assuming you are actually yamato, which you haven't directly said). Etc, etc. You seem to think I am extremely easy to read as town, but you haven't even attempted to this game. You're stuck on that one thing. Am I not being aggressive this game? Am I being passive/not caring about the game/not putting in effort/whatever other metrics you use for deciding if I'm scum or not? Now that I've had more time to interact with you while Hapa isn't arguing with me, you are townier, which is what I've said before. Aside from your sheeping of hapa in that instance, the only other reason I currently suspect you is because of how Corazon has been playing, but that is currently not worth going after. | ||
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On March 29 2013 04:18 cDgCorazon wrote: Yamato you are digging such a hole for yourself here. Basically you are tunneling me and Kei is scum "by proxy". It's not hard to see what you're doing here. You still haven't given any reason that Kei is scum. I'd love to hear an actual one. I'm not "tunneling you" I've done anything but "tunnel" you I'm trying my best NOT to "tunnel" you, because I have enough reason to doubt myself. | ||
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this is why I want to ignore this shit none of you can fucking read | ||
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ALL YOU'VE DONE IS TUNNEL ME YOU CANNOT FAULT ME FOR "TUNNELING YOU" WHICH I'M NOT DOING AND THEN DO IT YOURSELF THE WHOLE FUCKING GAME AND NOT EXPECT ME TO CALL YOU MAFIA DID YOU LEARN ANYTHING FROM PERSONALITY? | ||
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On March 29 2013 00:34 Hapahauli wrote: @ Yamato My larger concern with you is how little of worth you've done on Day 1. Your scumhunting contributions are a Dandel meta case with terribly obvious logical flaw, and "Oh hey Nisani made a sheep vote, lets lynch him." (One could possibly add your "passionate" defense of prplhz, but that's defending a townie, and not scumhunting.) Now your Day 1 is problematic for several reasons. 1) You've been "captain-meta-pants" this game, yet completely failed to look into Nisani's meta. At all. You love meta arguments as town, and I get no hint from your filter that you even looked into his game history. 2) You were foaming at the mouth defending prplhz, and I don't see that effort anywhere else in your filter when it comes to pushing a scum-case or hunting scum. 3) The only effort you make into pushing the Nisani lynch is questioning your top town read (myself) about Nisani's alignment. 4) I still have absolutely no clue how on earth you were that convinced that prplhz was town at the time. This has been beaten to death though, so w/e. I mean like half of your Day 1 filter is spent screaming at me about how Prplhz is town. Half. Take that out, and it reveals how little scumhunting you've actually done so far. And to add to that, you're pushing the claimed mason pair right now. I await what you have to write on that subject, but it looks pretty terrible. Fine, let's talk about this, and then I'm going to work. 1) I mainly use meta from games I have played with people. It's the same sort of "meta" arguments I sued with Dandel and Prplhz, the only difference being that I did look up one game from Dandel where he was mafia to see if he trolled as mafia in the early game. No, I've read nothing of Nisani before now, I was judging him objectively. In hindsight, perhaps I should have looked into the games you talked about, because it seems you reached the correct conclusion from his other games. 2) We'll change that tomorrow now that I have some real information. My day 1 reads are always ass. 3) I had to go to work at some point, when you guys did most of the arguing about his meta/sinani/keirathi. Can't be here all the time. 4) Because I can read prplhz. I read him perfectly fine in Nomination, but I IGNORED MY OWN ANALYSIS later in the game, which I will never do again. That's about it, really. This boils down to "I don't think you're scumhunting" which is a somewhat valid accusation that I've been improving upon. | ||
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It took me way too long to type this correctly | ||
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sense, it makes none | ||
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