EPTLol don't even have to /in, thanks DrH.
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WaveofShadow
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Lol don't even have to /in, thanks DrH. | ||
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On March 14 2013 03:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote: you'll get hit or lynched before the game starts That was my rationale. | ||
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OH SHITS. | ||
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What's goin on in here? | ||
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And now off the topic of setup speculation a few things I noticed from the very beginning of the game: BH playing exactly like I've seen him before, mega aggressive. It works fine for him, he hunts scum and succeeds. Can't decide whether I like Geript's 'new troll-y' style of playing or not, but ultimately (as many have pointed out) it's probably better than the way he ended in LX. I don't have any scumreads as of yet (especially since half the thread is yet to post) but I'll be keeping my eye out. Oh yeah one more thing: VE that SAST idea is retarded in my eyes, but makes me wonder about some sort of extra/3rd party wincon. Something like,' get a bunch of people to join your 3rd party group and successfully get 3-5 people mislynched' or some shit. I can't think of ANY other reason why you'd try to be serious about something that ridiculous. If you're serious about hunting scum, it's probably better you focus on that since you can be a huge asset to town when you're focused. | ||
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On March 17 2013 02:51 layabout wrote: WoS it's got heavy flavor but the game is tagged normal so it will just be normal, with normal-like distributions of roles. The idea of SAST is to create a town circle and to force the members to produce content so that mafia that join put themselves in the spotlight. It's not retarded it can actually be quite a strong tool to use against mafia. Unless the members are forced to vote the way VE does, which I don't believe he has answered when someone asked that of him. | ||
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On March 17 2013 04:54 zarepath wrote: This opening post seems kind of scummy to me. It begins with setup speculation that seems based in ignorance and not in a desire to hunt scum, continues to say that two players are consistent with their meta and he's not sure if he likes that or not, he decides he doesn't like SAST but then turns that into speculation as to a 3rd party wincon (????). Also notice the line thrown in the middle: It's an excuse for not hunting scum while saying to trust him, he's hunting scum. I would like to see more input from WoS on who he is suspicious of, and why. Maybe to get me to respond you should make up another fake case on me and force me to defend myself.  No excuses here, but of the people I know in this game, very few have posted thus far so I can't read much into meta, and of the people I don't it's mostly speculative bullshit and others jumping down their throats based on a very early read. I'd rather make an educated case than a useless early game read/case that can get dumped on super quickly just to seem towny in your eyes, Zare. | ||
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On March 18 2013 01:11 geript wrote: Didn't even Dr.H point out the that natural reaction to get to after going through a filter and arriving at null for town is to go through another filter? Sciberbia's case is good. There's almost no movement from him whatsoever; just random statements. When he's suspicious of someone he's not interacting with the thread at all when pressure is on that person. It's like he's watching the game from a window. Hell, he even didn't like the warbaby lynch in NMM 37, which you coached scum in, but here he's null on everything it seems. He's lied about every scum claiming town in the first post as it was actually most of the town players who soft and/or hard claimed town in the mid-stages of day 1. He's not showing any town motivation that I've seen whatsoever. His meta's off from 37. And the survival mentality is in his posts throughout. Ohai guise. Geript no offense, but your meta reads are shit. I'll agree with you that something appears...off about zare this game, but glurio does make a point and zare's activity does go way down on weekends. I'm willing to keep an eye on him for now but I don't think he'd be my D1 lynch candidate. I have to look into this Vivax/TPS thing right now because so far it seems the most compelling thing to me. I was going to comment on Coag's bullshit at some point but I figure I have to trust the vets on his meta once again since they ended up being right about Grush last game.....sigh. | ||
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On March 18 2013 03:24 Coagulation wrote: he could of easily put that in when he seen his slip to cover his ass. in fact thats what it looks like. seems out of place for sure. why did he not discuss this in the post where he uhh you know made the wild random accusation. What? If he saw his own slip then why not just delete it or not post it rather than add in something extra you say makes him look suspicious? | ||
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Vivax's defense of me notwithstanding, I'm not so sure this was a slip. Meta reads are going to be something I will not be very good at until I play quite a few more games with all of you guys, so I can't look back at Yamato and try to find out if Vivax's claim is legitimate. I'm not sure why he would be so confident as to flat out call him Yamato in one sentence and the back off a little saying 'I think' in another, it's a very odd way of doing it rather than flat out asking 'Are you Yamato' or simply saying 'I think TPS is Yamato.' Either way the 'slip' itself seems null, as is Vivax's defense on me; his points ring true (and I'm happy people actually notice me for once) but obviously there are both scum and town motivations for doing what he did. As for TPS, I'm having a hard time because I actually enjoyed his setup speculation (even though I know that's something that is generally frowned upon) and his early pressure on Coag is something that I would have gotten behind if I weren't fucking terrified of having the wrath of every vet in existence on top of me for 'not knowing how Coag usually plays.' I said it in an earlier post, Coag doesn't look great to me, but I'll trust the townies who seem to know him. Now TPS's pressure in my eyes really depends on whether he is a smurf or not imo. If he is, I would think that he would know exactly how Coag usually plays and so this would seem like an agenda to me. If he's not, he is legitimately pressuring and pushing a read on a player who looked (at least up until he started posting more frequently and usefully) scummy. So null on TPS for now until the smurf idea is resolved. I CAN, however get behind a vote on DP. I support VE's case though I do not necessarily support his town circle; call that scummy if you wish but having never seen one in a game before I have no idea of their risks or benefits and it just seems manipulative to me. Vote: Darthpunk | ||
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On March 18 2013 04:21 VisceraEyes wrote: For the record, my town circle idea was a conversation starter, and it worked wonders. I have no intention of attempting to hold people to voting with me or their peers in The Team, I simply wanted to gauge peoples reactions to it and see if it inspired people to start scumhunting. Some it did, others it didn't. But the fact is I think it has spawned useful discussion for everyone. So long as it's not a conversation starter for the sake of being a conversation starter; we know how well that went for Prom last game. I assume this is something that will be followed through on, and I will judge its usefulness and learn accordingly, though I have no desire to participate. | ||
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On March 18 2013 04:33 Vivax wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 18 2013 04:23 RyuSuzaku wrote: I've just finished reading what I missed while I was gone. If sandroba is indeed inactive because of drinking or whatever, I don't think he's a good lynch at all. However, I think greymist is a great choice for lynch today. I so far am not at all convinced that GK or DP or any of the other current names being thrown around are scummier than greymist. I think our best chance to lynch scum today is this guy. There are several major reasons; hopefully my quoting will help here. 1. Greymist excuses his lurking by saying that he was "setting a trap." I seriously doubt there was any sort of trap or intention behind the lurking, seeing as his entry post into the thread mentioned how busy he was. 2. When he was around, greymist didn't do anything other than respond to the host. Surely as a townie, if you know you are going to only be active for certain time periods, you will put effort into pushing your reads, or at least trying to make them. Lurking away your active periods sounds pretty antitown. I know at least for me personally, I do my best to read and post in order to solidify my reads during my active periods. 3. Greymist's posts come off as opportunistic. He accuses goodkarma of attacking "easy targets", yet he himself is guilty of attacking GK, someone I would classify as an easy target. GK also chose DarthPunk and sandroba as two of his four targets, both of which I would firmly classify as "not easy to lynch." GK gave fairly decent reasons for both, and those reasons are understandable from a GK-town perspective. For one, he acknowledges the differences in DP's play between this game and others in which he has played; this type of observation is characteristically rare for mafia players. The fact that greymist is not able to see these reasons is indicative of him being scum. 4. Greymist seems to be overly aware both of his own image and what the town in general thinks. There are a lot of questions to the effect of "what do people think of ____?" and also moments where he calls out players (knowingly) for things he himself is doing. To this end, I give you the following: Note that his response to GK is nothing more than OMGUS. I seriously doubt greymist was setting a trap, given that he himself said how busy he was. He also does exactly the same thing he accuses GK of doing. GK, to me, simply seemed to be stating his reads and his rationale. His rationale appears to be backed up by actual effort-from my independent efforts, I can confirm that much of what he wrote about these players' metas is, on the whole, true. On the other hand, greymist has put no such effort into verifying GK's assertions, nor does he do anything but dismiss GK's reads. In addition, he calls out GK for listing reads so he can allegedly later swap them, yet he basically does the same here: and here: and here: every time greymist posts a read, it's with very minimal effort-not something I would expect a townie to put forth. In addition, his posts are very opportunistic. He only does things under pressure, whether it be direct or indirect. He only attacked GK under the obvious pressure of a vote. Sandro had already claimed suspicion of greymist, but greymist brushed it off-it was only when others agreed with sandro did greymist take the opportunity to attack GK. When kita requested an opinion of greymist on vivax, he did nothing more than regurgitate kita's suspicions and dig up superficialities in how vivax responded. I'm not going to mention why I find greymist to be incredibly suspicious after this last post, since I expect anyone reading thoroughly to be able to discern why. ##vote greymist I'm with this guy ^ He knows what's up. Not to mention the way greymist handled my sandro case (saying activity doesn't matter when my case isn't about activity) and the points previously mentioned by Ryu. I think scum is trying to push a DP wagon. Let's go for Grey, sandro, cosmic or DYH instead.For justice. 'Scum' is trying to push a DP wagon? Which of the people whom have gotten on board said wagon are you calling scum? | ||
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On March 18 2013 11:12 GreYMisT wrote: Again, if I have to die so be it. the best I can do is say that I think goodkarma should be lynched. After GK I think waveofShadow should be looked into, followed by testsubject. These are my feelings at the moment. Solid feelings bro; I just got back to the thread to see you FoSing me with what must be your dying breath. Anything to back up that read? I can also see it isn't likely that DarthPunk is goin' down but I want a chance to re-read before changing anything. I remember thinking that zare isn't scum but I don't remember why. | ||
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Usually much stronger cases and less sheeping. My meta reads are overall fairly weak thus far into my mafia career though so I'm not yet comfortable lynching zare based on that evidence. I'm inclined to agree with geript's thoughts of 'waiting it out' to see if his play improves since GM seems to be the stronger choice for today. Zare wouldn't mind a response to MY response to your earlier suspicion against me. As for GM, he holds something in common with zare, in that he also brings up suspicion against me, calls me scummier than DarthPunk, doesn't back it up, and then ignores me completely. His AHA! post reeks of bad towny play (stupid gambit is stupid), but isn't Grey supposed to be a mafia veteran? That kind of 'trap' is something that zare tried to spring on the rest of the town AS a townie in NMM 37 but it only ended up muddling up the whole thread for that day and accomplishing nothing. Greymist's trap seems like an easy way to hide behind the fact that he couldn't be assed to contribute in a positive way and to jump on the first person to call him out for being gone (whether for legit reasons or not) as others have pointed out. It's nice that other people seem to think DP isn't scummy anymore btw, (and the flailing around once under heavy suspicion seems more like a towny think to do than scum) so he's null for me right now. I still don't lke the stance on lurkers despite how he described it. Unvote: DarthPunk Vote GreYMisT | ||
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It's also nice how everyone is going to be real fucking quick to jump down my throat thanks to GM randomly naming me before he dies (multiple times) without anything to back it up. I love how just like in LX I get ignored half the game and no one responds to anything I say, and as soon as somebody randomly decides to point fingers at me suddenly the whole fucking thread is up in arms. (Expletives deleted, don't want DrH yelling at me), I'm lone wolfing this game. | ||
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You imply that it's dumb that people are going for those who originally voted DP (namely, you) and group me along with you, and then IN THE SAME FUCKING POST you accuse me of shit WHEN WE'RE IN THE SAME BOAT? Is this really the town I'm going to have to put up with this game? REALLY? | ||
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LOL. You stuck to your read when you sheep voted him with no fucking reason?? Wow, glurio. Not to mention switched a vote onto him from Sandroba whom you ALSO had barely any reason to vote in the first place. 'Pressure.....right.' As for my defense, this is I'll I'm going to give you because you honestly aren't even worth my time. My meta reads are very weak as I have stated earlier. I'm more likely to be able to pick up on something zarepath does that seems wrong later on in the day than anything GM would have done first of all. Secondly, you say I don't give the vet a chance to improve his game but I want to give the relative newbie a chance? Doesn't that make sense? If a vet is playing a bad game or not performing the way other vets expect him to, it seems a solid sheep vote to me. The difference here is I at least added a little rational and reasoning behind my decision to switch votes. You haven't posted anything useful at all yet, you're sheeping just as much as you accuse me of doing but you haven't posted any real reads with proper backup or pushed anything (aside from me right now because it's the new cool thing to do). But please, by all means keep it coming and tunnel me instead of hunting for real scum. It's not like this is a distraction or anything from the real point of the game. | ||
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On March 18 2013 23:26 zarepath wrote: I am re-reading through the thread right now, but this makes me think that TPS is town. What? Why? Zare you REALLY have to start giving more than that to alleviate suspicion. I don't see how mis-speculating on roles is anything but null. | ||
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On March 19 2013 01:48 Mocsta wrote: /HELLO and fear me for I .. I have channeled the power of SANDROBA moology = mocsta Oh god it's YOU again. | ||
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On March 19 2013 01:24 cosmicomics wrote: WaveofShadow, where are you getting your townish read on glurio? This is essentially how glurio has played every game. His reads are bad and he doesn't add much to a scumhunt. Every once in a while he'll actually attempt to put pressure on something but it doesn't amount to anything. He's a little lurkier than he was in LX and isn't putting as MUCH effort in so ima paint him null leaning town right now purely based on meta, but we'll see how the night/day pans out. | ||
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If your reads are accurate then if they lynch you they risk exposing your reads as accurate. If they're not accurate they can lynch and try to make people think your reads are accurate. It's null. As for you asking absolutely everyone about all your 5 people, I really think you should be focusing; it's too much this early. One at a time. Like, which of the five do YOU feel we should be focused on today and why? Zarepath? | ||
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On March 19 2013 03:19 layabout wrote: Wos they were talking about nightkills... lolol I meant NK Welp I guess it's time for the whole thread to assume scumslip for some reason. | ||
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On March 19 2013 03:23 DoYouHas wrote: Wowwy Wow Wow. WOS just revealed he knows Vivax is town. Wat. GL with that. And as for responding to post-flip pressure, it just pisses me off that I don't get listened to at all on certain days; people only tend to pay attention to me when they think I'm scummy which has been...let's see....NEVER. | ||
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I dunno, not much to say about that. I'll blame it on lack of sleep due to 3 month old baby. | ||
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Obviously the question is what specifically is he trying to hide... In the end I'm sure he will be found out; I learned from LX that smurfing is hard apparently. | ||
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On March 19 2013 08:09 Vivax wrote: Medic goes to sciberbia or me, sciberbia if he's unsure cause the guy has wits. I've decided to extend my case with the other guys, rejoice! Also, in case of my death (and other guys) PLEASE, please look at my posts. Too many times people don't do that. Look at who I read as town, who I read as scum, who read me as what. People disregard it as WIFOM but it's all valuable information in getting behind scum's thought process. Anyway, working on another massive dump. Brb yo. I hear there's medication you can take for that. | ||
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On March 19 2013 10:44 zarepath wrote: So after looking through Wiggle's filter, he starts off not liking GreyMist or goodkarma, both of which were already under suspicion by other players. After that, everything else he says is defending a player -- he defends Coag's meta, he suggests that people's arguments against TPS aren't good enough (while also stating that he doesn't know how he feels about the guy himself -- wait and see), when asked specifically to talk about Coag he makes a super long post that ends up with a tl;dr of "wait and see", says he's going to take some time to digest goodkarma's defense, defends Vivax against the suggestion of a scumslip, says that VE's case on DP isn't that strong, then criticizes a DYH lynch. His final vote/read that he actually sticks to is one he only makes after sciberbia specifically asks him what he thinks about GM and GK, and he ends up picking GM, and his first reason why is "as I stated earlier in the thread;" ie, I was totally thinking he was scum the whole time even while I was voting for GK, the guy I no longer thing is scum. BTW, he really likes Ryu's case on him, and uses that in his argument. Then you have the post that Trance brought up. It looks a lot like he spent most of D1 criticizing arguments and not actually going after scum, and when he finally had to pick, he was apologetic for it and seems to be prepping himself for a town flip. I read him as scum until he provides some cases or reads, because so far he has only suspected two people, one of which he unvoted and the other one he was almost apologetic about voting for. Strike 100 zare. Mr. Wiggles is probably one of my strongest townreads at the moment. His analysis is actually quite strong and he is not afraid to go against popular opinion (he shut down VE's read on DP just as it was gaining traction amongst the town), risking being seen as soft defending a scumbuddy. He stuck with his reads on GK and GM throughout the day, if you read his posts, with his opinions changing slightly as more information cropped up. This post of yours on the other hand is just a summary of Mr. Wriggle's filter with a weak case against him at the end; which you assume to be scummy when in fact he read correctly into GreYMist's lack of caring. He did call him scummy in the end but I would argue is unapologetic about it; much like my tunneling of geript last game he points out the GM put us in a bad position essentially looking really scummy during the day and his lack of attendance and giving up with regards to his lynch forced the town's hand. Looking mroe into your recent posts: On March 19 2013 10:08 zarepath wrote: Because I'm town and too many people think that I'm not. I didn't have much time to play over the weekend and wasted it by saying noncommittal things and then bouncing, making it look worse. This is what makes me really think you're scum. In NMM 37 this was not your style of play at all even when you weren't around. You would pop in from time to time and take strong stances and PUSH your reads rather than sit back (aside from the fake case on me at the start). You've played in enough games to know better than this; hell it would have been better for you to lurk than to do what you're doing, you'd draw less attention to yourself. | ||
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On March 19 2013 11:00 goodkarma wrote: One reason for that might be that you spoilered the entire thing... Looking at it, as best I can tell you point out that Hopeless hasn't really provided much substantive content, and that his complete flip on his stance on Darth is odd. I could see some potential scum motivation for these actions, but honestly your case is pretty thin. You can't just go through a guy's post history and say "this and that are odd..." What we're interested in is scum motivation. As in: Why is it that this particular post is more likely for scum Hopeless to make than town Hopeless? As it stands your recent case posts sometimes read like summaries of the guy's actions. Which is just fluff that makes it ten times harder to read, and doesn't add any value... The Hopeless case was not that substantial imo, which is part of the reason people probably didn't say much about it. With a rather sparse filter and a replacement coming in, we'll have a better read on him after Ace subs in. You read his most recent cases, then read this: On February 14 2013 12:20 zarepath wrote: I don't know, so many holes here. Conveniently not believing in bread crumbs, not claiming in the hour that he himself said that the vigilante should have claimed, only killing WaveofShadow so that he could get INFORMATION on Corazon, wanting to stay "null" so scum don't have a target for tomorrow night... I mean, giving town a confirmed townie on Day 2 is HUGE, and getting picked of N2 isn't so awful because that means any active blue roles we may have get a full nother night of actions in. Really dubious claim. ##Vote ObviousOne The rest of his filter that game is constant questioning of other with regards to his reads, and some list posts yes, but without fluff; he actually takes a stand in many of these. + Show Spoiler + On February 14 2013 04:10 zarepath wrote: Zarepath's Reads by Zarepath 9-Bit + Show Spoiler + Nothing to see. Looking forward to a modkill or replacement. Sevryn + Show Spoiler + I had a null read on him at the lynch -- he jumped on my fake case, added a little to it, tunneled glurio. But post-flip, he went very proactively defensive for it, saying that everybody was too focused on glurio/himself as the dichotomy. But HE was focused on glurio. Now that glurio's flipped, I want to see what his reads are on EVERYONE. If he was so certain about glurio, who does he think is scum now? Slight scum read on Sevryn. WaveofShadow + Show Spoiler + I see him as being mostly proactive with a variety of reads. I don't understand what his big controversial post quoting Mocsta and Sn0_Man was about, other than the fact they wanted to go after lurkers and their plan failed. I read him as genuinely trying to help town. Sn0_Man + Show Spoiler + His filter's filled with a lot of theory, policy, and meta talk. He interacts directly with a lot of other posters, and is very active. But towards the end of Day 1, he was practically begging other people to make cases he could bandwagon onto, finally settling on Sevryn. He is active enough that I don't consider him scummy, but trudging through his filter doesn't make me think he's absolutely pro-town. Leaning town, but not as sure as I used to be. ObviousOne + Show Spoiler + His assessment of Day 1 was pretty useful. I agree with Mocsta that we need to see his reads. Null, slightly to town based on his opening, but only slightly. Warbaby + Show Spoiler + Starts with general policy talk, his third post is a list, needlessly antagonistic to WoS, bunch of meta, insults everybody's mafia skills, tells people to mislynch him, prefers voting lurkers over scum, constantly asserts that he has no idea who the scum are, his final top 3 are sylencia, sevryn, then glurio. Is now focused on sevryn. I don't think he's as scummy as I've thought of him now that I've read thorugh the whole filter; I have a null read on him now, depending on how his case on Sevryn develops. geript + Show Spoiler + Geript was one of the only ones who really dug into my fake WoS case. He bought it, but only after he went through it and actually criticized a few of the points. He now has a case on Corazon that is at least original, and it's labeled Case 1, suggesting he has another case coming. I read him as leaning town. Mocsta + Show Spoiler + Super active first half of Day 1, went to "actively lurking" since after pouting about knowing when he's not wanted, and has done a lot of things that I see as pro-town -- encouraging two names so we can have clear bandwagons, picking apart bad logic, etc. I read him as town. The only other thing I'll note is that it's odd how little he's contributed (although he still has tons of filter). I think he's legit going for a different strat, but will keep an eye on him, obviously. Corazon + Show Spoiler + His Day 1 seemed pretty typical of his town meta, but he really pushed on his WB vote but didn't actively try to persuade anyone else; he just kept re-quoting his case, and then when the lynch was getting confusing, instead of asking for consolidation onto his TOP READ that he's had all day, instead he bandwagons onto Glurio. It's hard to judge any voting motivations from the Day 1 lynch, but this is suspicious to me. He gave a pretty town response to my WoS case, though. Null, leaning town. Mandalor + Show Spoiler + Mandalor's filter looks very scummy. Every other post is a list, the main thrust of his case on Sylencia has to do with blue talk, and the case for his final vote is not compelling at all. He just drops a random vote and checks out, doesn't even wish town luck. (To be fair, I did something similar because of time and RL constraints.) People's reactions to my vote on Mandalor were that they had town reads on him, but I'd like to ask you all what specifically makes him look town to you, because I don't see much. Reads SCUM Sylencia + Show Spoiler + Pretty vocal opponent of RNG there at the beginning, then his activity fades from there. He speculates HARD on warbaby's possible blue roles, not necessarily a very pro-town thing to do in public on Day 1, and that is the biggest contribution he made at all. He said he hadn't read very many filters, admitted to tunneling warbaby, then voted for him. In the end, he posted this gem: On February 13 2013 09:54 Sylencia wrote: .. What lol, I gave my reasons before and I'm voting for him to consolidate my thoughts on him. I will have to change my vote to glurio if required to stay alive though. Town don't change their votes in order to stay alive; town believe in their scum reads or are willing to work with other people's scum reads. THey certianly don't do so just to stay alive; lynching scum is more important than a town's individual life. This quote makes it sound as though his number one concern is not being lynched. It's worth going through all the filters, apparently, because this was the last post in the final filter, and I think it's the biggest, latest scum tell. In conclusion, people I think are suspicious and would like other's thoughts on: Sevryn Warbaby Mandalor Sylencia Obv and 9-Bit's replacement also deserve scrutiny. But right now my two biggest reads are Sylencia and Mandalor. I think people should look at my brief reads on them, read their filters, and I want to hear your own conclusions. | ||
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On March 19 2013 11:12 zarepath wrote: Can you explain how your super strong town read only had two people he suspected, one of which flipped blue, and has said nothing post-flip? I don't think that shutting down cases is that necessarily pro-town when you have no other real suspects of your own. It is easy and risk-free to shut down rogue cases that threaten to gain traction when the main suspects aren't scum. Except that GM DID look scummy, and I have yet to read into GK and see what the thoughts are regarding him. How exactly did he have no suspects of his own? | ||
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On March 19 2013 11:48 VisceraEyes wrote: TO MAKE YOU FUCKING SOTP ITONAGOAWINBA EORBINA OBNAQ AIOENB Q BQNPNTIO ABNW ANIRJBR aBUBN Yeah I could swear you just said something along the lines of you wanting to stop this...? But yeah Mocsta, this is shit play reminiscent of your end of day Hydra mafia scum shenanigans. I never thought I'd ask this, but where's the 26-page-filter Mocsta we've all come to know and love? | ||
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On March 19 2013 13:28 Wade Fell wrote: You know what geript? I'm tired of you flinging shit like a monkey in a zoo from the sidelines. If you had something to say, you'd have said it during D1. Everything you've done this game has been with the purpose of hurting town, and you're just mad I've attacked you and other people who didn't like VE's idea for forming a town circle. Your so-called evidence regarding how I began this night is bullshit, like everything else you spew. of COURSE I look into the filters of dead townies. of COURSE I'll take his reads into account. we were literally talking about this over the course of the mafia podcast, but you didn't absorb any of that because you're just another grush, just another player who is worthless as a townie, so worthless scum keeps him alive until lylo because he never does anything remotely useful, the perfect scum player. VE told me to hold back on attacking you tonight, he said that he'd try to coax something useful out of you, but what's this? You're flinging shit at everything useful town has tried to do this game, because the very idea of veterans, of skilled players, trying to hunt scum is offensive to you. You're just a fly, geript, a fly on the wall that I will crush like all the other players who stand against me this game. I'm tired of listening to your garbage. tomorrow try to start a wagon on me, I fucking dare you. I'll lynch you first. Uh...wow. Tell us how you really feel BH. (I'm guessing he didn't get to the part where he got possibly-outed by VE...) | ||
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On March 19 2013 13:31 sciberbia wrote: @BH Can you explain why you chose to mason GK and then VE? Also, I think you might as well claim your role in full and tell us if you are allowed to post the mason logs or not. Probably wait until the daypost to do this though. This: I'm actually pretty curious (I know people hate role speculation but fuck it, it interests me) because I'm pretty sure most people thought Nightmare would have been a scum-aligned role. Figuring out what your role is may help us get a handle of what else there might be in the game. | ||
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On March 19 2013 14:00 Mocsta wrote: Course u do, it would be coordinated if GK was here. I dont like this BH.. this reads as a politician trying to sway me around "I had more to gain and far less to lose." Blah Blah Blah Town BH is Motherfucker.. i did this, its the right choice, dont question me Keep up those meek and timid speeches scum If u want me to start pulling Mafia LX quotes and providing contrast I shall oblige... if u havnt forgotten (MilkSuckler- me) and you had epeen battles in LX.. and this is going radically different. Now that game I am town... this game im town That game you were town.. this game.. (well surely u can spot the difference) It wouldn't be coordinated though would it? I thought the mason 'connection' ends with each phase, meaning his connection now is with VE? If you look at his earlier posts defending GK he is trying to coordinate a defense there and sounds pretty confident aside from when GK basically leaves him in the lurch and doesn't show up. Which posts specifically lead you to believe he is acting rather than actually going through with 'motherfucker' BH, Mocsta? | ||
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On March 18 2013 16:09 Wade Fell wrote: :| at least with his dying hours he could have written some cases or given something to work off of. All he's left us with is: an entirely wrongheaded attack on GK, and unexplained scumreads on WoS and Testsubject. He's right on testsubject but never goes into detail. As a final token to Greymist I will take an analytical look at WoS before the end of the night though, and as usual you will have my general thoughts and cases before dawn. Couple things, BH. This was promised and we never got it, and we haven't heard anything regarding your top scumreads, TPS/Testsubject in a while. Are we going to receive any of this before deadline in case you are night target? | ||
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 I'm always interested to hear what people think about me and I'm particularly interested in TPS. | ||
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I liked Kei in hydra. | ||
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On March 19 2013 14:28 Keirathi wrote: *Insert "I don't always call someone scum, but when I do, I don't" image macro* LOL. I like when mafia makes me laugh and not angry. | ||
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If you survive the night, make a case on Geript and I'll listen to it if it's actually based on decent reads and not an emotional response to him. Still waiting on the other stuff you promised too, daypost is coming up real soon I think. | ||
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On March 19 2013 15:12 Keirathi wrote: Are you blind? The benefit is that you're in here right now making this argument for him :o Plus, its still possible that you are scum together, in which case the benefit is much more obvious. That would be devious as fuck, and seems really unlikely. | ||
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On March 19 2013 15:16 Mocsta wrote: That actually gave me townie points on BH... im surprised we treating this "tell' so differently Will have to re-read the logs, they REALLY hard to read. Yeh gotta read from bottom to top and then the dates/signatures are hard too. I'm not saying that his obsession with geript is scummy per se, but I have an overall null read on Geript so if there's something I'm missing to make him look scummier I'd be interested to see if BH can bring something purely objective to the table. | ||
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On March 19 2013 15:19 Keirathi wrote: How is it devious? Scum players defend town players all the time. Why do they do it? Because they can get "town cred" for it because they know that they are right. Hell, just look at this filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=387591&user=133498¤tpage=All That's BH's scum filter from Parallel. You can see how much time he spends defending his town reads. I meant it would be devious as fuck if they were both scum, and made up the QT logs. Incredibly unlikely. | ||
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On March 19 2013 15:31 Mocsta wrote: U liked his first post? As a funny tidbit: zarepath done some weird shit as newbie town. Last game i played with him, he wrote a fake case on someone he had a town read on.. to gauge reactions.. the fake case was so good. the target (WaveofShadow IIRC pertty much gave up LOL) Haha yeah it was my first game and I no idea how to react. The funny thing is his case was actually pretty good. Overall though the fake case accomplished nothing. | ||
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On March 19 2013 15:30 Mocsta wrote: Actually for me the tell was how he went about discussing Geript.. Maybe i have been conned, but I read genuine consideration being given.. My take was that BH is instinctively driven to lynch a player like Geript (too much deviation in play styles). As scum he could EASILY push that lynch on that validation. Instead, he is actively querying other peoples thoughts to see if its just him being tunneled, or there is something there. Now yes, scum coudl be fishing on a push.. but lets be serious.. Geript is lynchbait, you dotn need to go to that effort to validate the push. I am reading this as a town guy trying to actively put consideration into his targets. As I said before.. the Log format is a fuckn bitch to read.. so I would like to read it one more time (will prob copy/paste the logs into word or soemthing.. just to confirm im not missing some funny business.. but I think that he handled Geript the same to both VE and GK gives consistency to the tell. (He didnt know he was gonna post the mason log either remember!) Thoughts WoS? You call Geript lynchbait...has he actually been as such this game? Looking into his filter his read on zare is more or less what I came up with on him, and he does a decent job attempting to press his reads. Sure he gets trolly later on with BH but if you look at his play in the most recent NMM he has discovered his balls, apparently. | ||
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On March 19 2013 15:37 Keirathi wrote: EBWOP: And, he stands up to VE's SAST. How many newbie scum go out of their way to stand up to vets? I did the same thing..... On March 17 2013 02:41 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm not familiar to heavily themed games but what makes me wonder here about the setup is the sheer number of roles. 17 to be exact. Are these all going to be roles with power? And now off the topic of setup speculation a few things I noticed from the very beginning of the game: BH playing exactly like I've seen him before, mega aggressive. It works fine for him, he hunts scum and succeeds. Can't decide whether I like Geript's 'new troll-y' style of playing or not, but ultimately (as many have pointed out) it's probably better than the way he ended in LX. I don't have any scumreads as of yet (especially since half the thread is yet to post) but I'll be keeping my eye out. Oh yeah one more thing: VE that SAST idea is retarded in my eyes, but makes me wonder about some sort of extra/3rd party wincon. Something like,' get a bunch of people to join your 3rd party group and successfully get 3-5 people mislynched' or some shit. I can't think of ANY other reason why you'd try to be serious about something that ridiculous. If you're serious about hunting scum, it's probably better you focus on that since you can be a huge asset to town when you're focused. | ||
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On March 19 2013 15:40 Keirathi wrote: So, you're saying you're scum, so my argument is invalid? Okay then. No, I'm saying that argument is meaningless either way. Zare is not afraid to 'stand up' to anyone, nor should he be, scum or town. I think it;s null. | ||
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On March 19 2013 15:40 Mocsta wrote: I havnt read anything of Geript other than his RNG push, so perhaps im talking out of turn.. But i stand by him being lynch bait.. he gets emotionally flustered too quickly. Geript admits freely he has been voted Least Valuable Town numerous times.. so yeah. I dunno what to expect from a scum Geript; but based on my heuristic of a lynchbait Geript.. I think BH reasoning is town aligned. U didnt actually comment on your thought; other than geript isnt lynchbait? Do you think his logs feel forced in general? I don't think the RNG push means anything, it's just him putting on his troll shoes imo. You make a good point though that every game I've played in with Geript he has been town so I wouldn't know meta-wise what to expect from Geript. I guess I've been unconsciously assuming he's town since his play fits the past 3 games. | ||
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His regular town play he is much more methodical, he pushes his reads constantly and as Mocsta noted, isn't afraid of trying crazy shit if he thinks it might benefit the town. | ||
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On March 19 2013 15:56 Mocsta wrote: Thats the thing. I was never talking about Geript? I was talking about BH logs, and the impact on my read on BH... how is this not clear? Because you were talking about the logs and Geript a lot in the same post. Sorry it wasn't clear to me. If I had to say one way the other I'd lean town on BH. The differences people have been coming up with in the thread don't seem that big to me, and I'm certainly not 100% of VE's scumclaim against him. | ||
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On March 19 2013 16:01 sciberbia wrote: alright i feel compelled to make a deadline post in case I am shot. But I don't think that's especially likely. I did one readthrough of everyone's filter during night-phase. Here are the people I felt best about being town: vivax, DP, DYH And here are people I think have a decent chance of being scum: geript WoS BH glurio zarapeth trancestorm cosmicomics Meh not sure I should even post this. Well if I die, at least look into the filters I listed for possible scum. Aside from BH, I see a common theme in your scum list, that is, players who either have barely contributed or could be seen as newbies. I don't like it, and not just because I'm included. | ||
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BH I'm not sure how it goes with revealed mason-type stuff, but I'm assuming you'll be choosing a new target today. Would it be a bad idea to reveal to the town whom you will be choosing? | ||
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On March 19 2013 16:08 sciberbia wrote: errr, who in this game exactly would you consider to be both relatively experience and to have contributed a significant amount? VE and BH? You have, I don't know how much of a vet GK is, Mr Wiggles, Mocsta.... | ||
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I'd certainly like to see some more solid reads from him during the day though, as there won't be any excusing a second day of the bare minimum of contribution. I'm interested to hear his thoughts on zare and whether he's changed his mind since reading him as scummy earlier in the day (without committing...) | ||
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On March 19 2013 16:14 Mocsta wrote: THnx, but i am certianly not a vet.. check my profile. Started playing in the new year 2013 More so than me and most of the other 'newbies' named on his list, Mocsta. The list just looks to me like he's looking for easy scumreads to throw out there with minimal chance of being called out if he's wrong because they're either new/bad or lurky. | ||
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On March 19 2013 16:20 Mocsta wrote: It was pretty fuckn clear Keir was town without a flip... I agree with this. Scib, thoughts on your scumlist now that you're not dead? | ||
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Night all. | ||
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Zare this is more like it. I expect more of this from you during the day. Who is your top scumread of all of those you have listed? Also with regards to the BH 'scumslip,' Vivax, there is something I remember in the logs that bothered me a little, I have to go re-read and find it. I didn't originally bring it up because I was leaning town on BH but his tunneling of TPS (who is leaning town for me) and the recent evidence against him (waiting on yours too, geript) makes me want to go find it again. | ||
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It's the timestamps that bother me. Between BH and GK, (the ones Vivax suspects of being a scumteam-fabricated QT/logs) every single post has a fairly decent size berth in between; the smallest one being 3 minutes right at the end, the next smallest being 5 minutes (2-lines) and every one after that being 12 min or longer in between posts. This means that it's POSSIBLE that they were fabricating these posts in the scum QT in between. This isn't possible in the VE-BH logs, as there is evidence of free-flowing quick conversation taking place with multiple 2-minute spaces in between posts from both of them. Also of course the fact that they didn't even start contacting each other until much later in the day either means a) they were planning in the scum QT b) BH didn't send his mason request till late (can be a subset of (a), null) c) he's telling the truth and DrH didn't set up the QT until later. The post where Vivax outlines the slip makes option (c) seem VERY odd so the scummier options seem more likely here. Now this could all be Wave's Conspiracy Theories™ but I figure it's worth putting out there to see what people think. | ||
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On March 20 2013 01:46 zarepath wrote: Mr. Wiggles. He refuses to present reads, and hasn't had a read on anyone since the GM flip. Since I originally had a townread on Wiggle (and you appear to be right) I'd really like to see something from him. I don't think anyone on D2 can be excused of lack of activity/reads now since most of thread is fairly active and scumhunting. | ||
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And also I've seen nothing but belligerence from you in the thread so far; how does that make you any different from TPS? | ||
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On March 20 2013 04:52 Vivax wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 20 2013 04:51 zarepath wrote: VE, what is the name of your role? You never said, you just claimed Vet. What's the purpose of this question? Don't you believe the claim? Zare is scum rolecop imo | ||
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On March 20 2013 04:55 zarepath wrote: I believe it for now, but there's no reason to not ask for information that can only help town at this point. It's not as if mafia will learn from the name of his role what his power is, because he's already claimed. I just found it odd he didn't say it when the other blue claim did, and can't think of how revealing it would hurt town. How exactly would it HELP town? This looks REAL scummy zare. | ||
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On March 20 2013 04:59 zarepath wrote: Yes, now with my knowledge of the name of VE's role, I shall be able to ascertain what his role is! I am so diabolical. I just don't understand how it hurts town to claim the name, and I CAN understand a mafia claimed vet but not wanting to say the role because they're worried somebody else has that name, especially in a game where we don't know exactly which role corresponds to which name. I don't suspect VE of that, but I don't see any reason why he shouldn't remove all potential suspicion alotgether and just claim the name, yo. If you don't suspect VE of that, does that mean you don't suspect BH either since he claimed the role name? | ||
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I also never said they faked the logs entirely, I assume by the timestamps that they were actually using the mason QT but it is a possibility they are using the scum QT to discuss what to put in the mason QT in case they had to show logs. Much like my conspiracy theory-type posts from LX, I can perfectly understand if people think they're retarded, but I think it's at least worth consideration. | ||
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On March 20 2013 05:06 zarepath wrote: I don't suspect him of fake-claiming, if that's what you mean, because I'm in a QT with him. He could be faking the color of his role, but that's not what I'm talking about. If we force everyone who blue-claims to state the name of their role, we can essentially shut down all fake roleclaims from scum because there will either be someone with the power they're claiming (a DT or medic or vet or what have you), or someone who has the name that they're claiming, but it goes to a different power. I think your speculation as to a power involving the names of roles is coming more from your distrust of me than it is from any logical perspective. No, I'm just curious to know what you think about BH since you're in a QT with him and I'm assuming there has been no activity as of yet. The problem with asking people to claim their roles is not all the roles will even be in existence if you read OP, and we have no idea as to the alignment of them. Yes it is a risky move for scum to claim the name of a role in case someone else has it, but chances are if it's a scum role name, no one else will have it and no one else would know. We all thought Nightmare was town, didn't we? | ||
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You have also sort of flip-flopped on whether you find BH scummy or null-scum or what have you, so I'm trying to divine a true alignment read from you on him. | ||
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I'll look into cosmic's VE case again, but in the end I think it just makes me assume that one of either VE or BH has to be scum. The super hard defense of GK by BH makes me think if he's scum then likely GK is too btu I don't know how likely that is, despite my conspiracy theory and the QT 'scumslip.' Speaking of which I remember harboring concerns about VE's town circle earlier on D1, but now we're on D2 and we haven't heard anything. Was it a joke or what? | ||
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On March 20 2013 05:23 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm a Coward. I act as a Veteran as far as I can tell. This confused me a little VE. Do you not know what your role does? It seemed odd when you were claiming too: On March 19 2013 16:20 VisceraEyes wrote: I took a hit. I'm....not sure what that implies. I'm gonna sleep on it. I love you, town. And then right after you state it's because you're Vet. Explain? | ||
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Yeah VE I remember that post now, although i think I was confused at the time because of you mentioning 'The Team,' I'm not sure if it was an idea you still wanted to keep going rather than using ONLY as a conversation starter. Anyway, looking into the reads on Wiggle/VE now. | ||
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I'm interested to hear what BH himself thinks of this evidence, especially since he had originally regarded VE as his strognest town read at the time. GK regarding your post on Wiggle, I originally had him as a townread but he has done dick all since yesterday aside from this: On March 19 2013 13:48 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Because if he's town he's a free shot on a strong role paired with a potentially strong player for scum. Makes more sense to wait until day time if you had to do it. @BH/Geript: Can you two cut it out? It's a game, you don't have to get personal. which adds nothing of value at all. I think for now my scumread on VE is stronger but at least he is around to maybe provide some defense. Wiggle's posts are useless but VE's are blatant contradictions. I'm having a lot of trouble trusting either VE or BH right now but it's seeming more and more to me that one of them may have to be scum. | ||
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On March 20 2013 05:51 VisceraEyes wrote: "Clearly good"? It's not good at all. In fact it's awful because I'm town. I'm ignoring it because it's all based on useless speculation based on mason logs I was told by the host aren't even supposed to be in the thread. So whatever. So go ahead and make it stronger? On March 19 2013 13:13 VisceraEyes wrote: I don't think I'm allowed, which is part of why I revealed him. Without the ability to post the mason logs, it seems weak anyway and it's a large portion of what makes him scummy to me. | ||
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The other point (I don't care about the DP nonsense) that struck home for me was you fingering GK earlier on and then assuming he was town to make the case against BH. I'll link for your convenience: Ok. VisceraEyes' hypothesis is that Wade Fell is a scum mason trying to manipulate townies. Where in this post does VisceraEyes consider goodkarma as scum? He doesn't. Let me hash that out again. In the starting sections of my post I demonstrated that VisceraEyes considered goodkarma scum. Additionally he disparaged Wade Fell's play in defending goodkarma (another contradiction), but now he is trying to push Wade Fell as scum on the basis that he is masoning goodkarma, which is one of his town reads? How is Wade Fell masoning goodkarma supporting evidence that Wade Fell is a scum mason attempting to manipulate townies? It isn't. VisceraEyes is getting muddled up in his pile of lies. Either you think goodkarma is town and that Wade Fell's mason choice was to manipulate him, or you think goodkarma is scum and that Wade Fell fake masoned a scum partner. What VisceraEyes is doing is calling both goodkarma and Wade Fell scum, and using "town goodkarma" as evidence of Wade Fell scum. Only scum do this. Do you agree with both BH and GK being scum partners and that the logs were faked? | ||
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Ohai BH! What say you about the VE case? | ||
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On March 20 2013 09:32 ThePeashooter wrote: At least someone sees what I mean. He has been doing this for the whole day 1. I just can't decide If he's just a jackass who can only interpret anything I do as scum, or if he's scum purposely doing it to try to kill me. One of my main issues with Coag/Kenpachi is that they don't post, and when they do it's literally worthless. Players who post no content at all, literally just one liners drive me insane. I really hate spam posting. From this point forward though I'm going to ignore Wade because it's entirely non constructive to engage him at all and it is a waste of my time that I could better spend doing other things in game. But here is the last thing I'm going to respond to because it's an issue of integrity. I play the game to play the game. I play the game to win the game. I don't play the game to try to win by having my opponents defeated on a technicality. I play this game with integrity. Regardless of my alignment, I would never, ever try to get someone modkilled to help achieve my in game win condition. I also never tried to get you modkilled. I asked you to stop spamming multiple times and you proceeded to taunt me by posting 4 times in a row. I told you to shut the fuck up, and you post another 3 times in a row. I told the MOD that I am not playing in a game that gets destroyed by spam and to tell you to stop or I'd just quit playing. At no point did I ever ask for you to get modkilled, but you are literally the reason I stopped playing this game and had I known you were in this game under an alias I wouldn't have joined. However, since I did join I intend on playing the game out as a courtesy to the host. On that note, stop disrespecting the host. He is performing a service for us and I'm sure also has real life obligations. If you have issues take it up post game in the banlist or elsewhere. What you shouldn't do is go on a tangent multiple times in the thread about the MOD which is just incredibly rude and inconsiderate. Is that what you call it? | ||
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I defy you to go through my meta and find something I've done differently this game than any of my others. I have never once lied in a mafia game thus far and have never been anything but town, including this game. Vivax already gave you one of my typical defenses; hell I'll even add to it to attempt to appease you. The reason I want to be seen in a good light is because I'm town, and don't want people wasting their time trying to point out my dumb mistakes when they should be scumhunting for REAL scum. Who are the lynch targets for today that need to pushed that I'm skimping on? Up until your recent post calling for an end to it, I was attempting to push both BH and VE to see what I could get from them, as well as zare earlier in the day. No, I haven't voted yet, but the day is young, good sir. | ||
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On March 20 2013 09:39 kitaman27 wrote: Being defensive is a newbie scum trait, so I don't think that really plays much of a part. This is his 5th or 6th game though, so he should be more than capable of pushing a case. In one of his early posts he mentions how he would rather not provide a scum read until he is prepared to develop a strong case. It's 100+ hours and 60ish pages into the game and he still hasn't done so. As I mentioned on day one, I believe GK's play has been scummy. He is a player I'm considering providing a more detailed case about. Zarepath is also a player that doesn't look town, but I'm not sure I feel as strongly as with the previous two reads. I'm having trouble deciding whether cosmicomics is pushing mafia objectives or if he is just a misguided townie that is lost somewhere in left field. I'm concerned with the apathy displayed by players like Wiggles and to a lesser extent because he just subbed in, Ace. I'd expect these players to take more of an initiative if they cared about the lynch, but it seems like they are playing reactionary currently. Would you add Coag to this list? Again, 'veteran reverence' or some shit I don't like. Surely they got to veteran status by doing something other than either lurking an entire day (Ace) or threatening people, throwing out a couple reads without support and shitposting (Coag). I think I am comfortable enough to vote Wiggle right now though because he really just doesn't appear to give a shit. Vote: Mr. Wiggles | ||
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On March 20 2013 09:45 kitaman27 wrote: I write up a case against you and your response is that you've never lied? Where am I calling you a liar? My case is that you show no interest in pushing a lynch. Even with this post, you ask "who are the lynch targets"? A town player decides a lynch target and pushes it on other players. A mafia player looks at the bandwagons and selects his favorite. I don't need another player to defend you. I'd like a response from yourself on the issues I mentioned. Uh...nice that you selectively ignored the rest of my post. On March 20 2013 09:41 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh and kita, cute case. I defy you to go through my meta and find something I've done differently this game than any of my others. I have never once lied in a mafia game thus far and have never been anything but town, including this game. Vivax already gave you one of my typical defenses; hell I'll even add to it to attempt to appease you. The reason I want to be seen in a good light is because I'm town, and don't want people wasting their time trying to point out my dumb mistakes when they should be scumhunting for REAL scum. Who are the lynch targets for today that need to pushed that I'm skimping on? Up until your recent post calling for an end to it, I was attempting to push both BH and VE to see what I could get from them, as well as zare earlier in the day. No, I haven't voted yet, but the day is young, good sir. As far as pushing my own reads this game, other people seem to be getting to them first, hence the bandwagon. I'd like to think I've at least attempted to justify my jumping on said bandwagons when I vote. Oh and I'm not saying you called me a liar, but here I establish my 'truth-telling' meta. I just claimed town. Do the math. | ||
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On March 20 2013 09:48 kitaman27 wrote: This is exactly what I'm referring to. Just minutes earlier you posted about how you wanted to know who where the lynch candidates in order to determine who to look at. Now you're voting Wiggles with a one line explanation. You clearly couldn't have taken the time to read through the filters of the players you just asked about. So why is it that you are voting based on town sentiment, rather than finding a player that you believe is scum and explaining to everyone why you believe this is the case. I progressively find him scummier as the day progresses and he accomplishes dick all. I could of course go into more detail if you wish, but then you'd still just call that voting based on town sentiment. Would you rather I just pick someone at random who hasn't been suspected so far just for shits to make you feel better? I see Mr. Wiggles as scum right now and that's where my vote is. AT least until such times as he comes back and proves to the town that he's not useless, throwing mediocre suspicions all over the place and being generally non-comittal. On March 20 2013 01:50 WaveofShadow wrote: Since I originally had a townread on Wiggle (and you appear to be right) I'd really like to see something from him. I don't think anyone on D2 can be excused of lack of activity/reads now since most of thread is fairly active and scumhunting. On March 20 2013 05:47 WaveofShadow wrote: Ok looking at the cosmic case on VE, there are a few things that are reaching just a little bit, but overall the inconsistencies pointed out in VE's play are pretty damning. Even more damning may be the fact that VE returns to the thread and completely ignores the (clearly good) case on him without trying to defend any of the points made on these inconsistencies, rather he just adds another post weakly pushing BH again. I'm interested to hear what BH himself thinks of this evidence, especially since he had originally regarded VE as his strognest town read at the time. GK regarding your post on Wiggle, I originally had him as a townread but he has done dick all since yesterday aside from this: On March 19 2013 13:48 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Because if he's town he's a free shot on a strong role paired with a potentially strong player for scum. Makes more sense to wait until day time if you had to do it. @BH/Geript: Can you two cut it out? It's a game, you don't have to get personal. which adds nothing of value at all. I think for now my scumread on VE is stronger but at least he is around to maybe provide some defense. Wiggle's posts are useless but VE's are blatant contradictions. I'm having a lot of trouble trusting either VE or BH right now but it's seeming more and more to me that one of them may have to be scum. | ||
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I have had to defend myself against accusations like this every single game I've been in. Guess what the outcome has been EVERY SINGLE GAME. I'm not entertaining it this time, it's way too frustrating to rail against half the town and waste half a day when we could be finding someone else. I'd rather actually help to find someone really scummy so you guys can learn something useful on my mislynch than waste my time. Hey Wiggle, nice of you to show up at such a convenient time so you can just easily jump on a bandwagon everyone else set up for you so you can deflect. Hop aboard the mislynch train!! WOO WOOO!!!!! I can see my vote is in a good place. | ||
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Since I'm honestly sick of every game going the same way for me, I'm going to have a little fun with this I think. I'll leave it up to you guys: do you a) Want me to attempt to defend myself or, b) Ignore all of this shit and make everyone on this bandwagon feel really silly tomorrrow? Sigh...I always seem to bring this upon myself...you'd think I'd learn. | ||
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I honestly don't feel like putting forth the same effort it takes every single game to make people believe I'm just bad town. For my own sanity, I'd like to have fun with this for once. If my putting forth effort in the game thus far is enough to get me lynched despite the fact that there are people who have done way less than me, then why dig myself any deeper? As I said: you guys decide. If you REALLY want me to stand here and defend myself then I guess I will, and we'll see how effective it is. If not, I'll be back tomorrow and you guys can decide then. | ||
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So amusing. | ||
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HAHAHA Really dude, from you? | ||
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On March 20 2013 12:02 Coagulation wrote: sciberbia I have no idea who you are I dont even remember you being in this game your very under the radar. lets pretend that theres not a giant line to take a shit on WOS and hes not thrashing around like an idiot asking for it. Who would you vote if he wasnt an option? Wow, so THIS is the Coagulation I've heard so much about. Alright I'll get a couple of defenses going. Why the fuck not. | ||
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On March 20 2013 12:04 geript wrote: Yah man. Don't pull a Geript. Take a few hours. Get your head straight and come back. Just quit with the soft martyring shit. Haha man I don't know whether to laugh or hate you with every fibre of my being. In any case, preparing some shit right now, no soft martyring here. | ||
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On March 20 2013 11:13 zarepath wrote: I like that WoS case a lot. One thing worth noting about his defensiveness is that in the other game I played with WoS, I made a fake case on him, and he was SUPER apologetic. Like, he just said "sorry guys, I must be playing this wrong" and pretty much rolled over. He was town. This game, he has been very emotional in his defensiveness, using poor logic (I'm always a mislynched townie, therefore I will always be a mislynch). He wasn't very defensive at ALL when he was a townie threatened by mislynch. And the Wiggle vote really cements the case; there were already a few votes on him before WoS went for it. I don't know why I'd forgotten about that scum slip; I think all of these pseduo-slips that keep getting dismissed made me intentionally dismiss all of them? I don't know. But the fact remains there are very few town reasons for him to mis-compose his sentence in the way that he did. ##Unvote ##Vote WaveofShadow Hey Zare, that was my first mafia game ever. Fuck rolling over, I fight now. Apparently nobody believes that I don't have super strong scumreads of my own and so I'm not allowed to sheep onto a decent choice who I believe is scummy, namely Wriggle. Ok, I get that. Good evidence you're bringing to the table here though zare, maybe before you sheep along with everyone else, you know, like youre accusing me of doing you should READ the fucking cases against me. I'll spell what's wrong with your last point out for you here:+ Show Spoiler + On March 20 2013 08:54 kitaman27 wrote: Finally have some spare time. I'll respond to a couple relavent issues, but first I wanted to get out a post on one of my strongest scum reads. I may have a second post about another player I'm suspicious of, depending on how much time I have. WaveofShadow The first player I'd like to bring up is WaveofShadow. Whenever I try to look at a player, the most important thing to look at in my opinion is motive. During the first few cycles of a game, it can be quite difficult to differentiate a townie post and a mafia post. The easiest way to tell the difference is to ask yourself, what is a player trying to accomplish with these posts and what does this player care most about. When I read through the filter of Wave, I can't help but notice that he is much more willing to play through others, than to put himself out there. On numerous occasions, we can see him prodding other players with questions, but there has been very little follow through. He questions other players reads, but fails to come to significant conclusions. Wave has approached the first two cycles in a way that shows me that he has little interest in being the guy that gets a player lynched. He is more interested in selecting a bandwagon based on the arguments of other players. In his support for the day one lynch, he posts the following: This is the first time in the game he actually mentions Darthpunk. He states in a single line that he supports VE's case, yet provides no reasoning for why he agrees. Notice how defensive he gets with his vote. In reference to his disapproval of VE's circle he states "Call that scummy if you wish." At a point where he has selected his preferred lynch candidate, he is still spending more time discussing VE's completely irrelevant circle. For the sake of keeping this post legible, I've edited out the previous part of this quote, but he spends a whole paragraph discussing the deal with yamato. Why is it that he is spending more time discussing events not relevant to his scumread, than the actual vote itself? It would be one thing if VE's case was so convincing that he had nothing to add. However, when I ask myself, does he care about this lynch, I come to the conclusion that he does not. DarthPunk is his preferred lynch candidate, but at this point he has put absolutely no effort in pushing his selection. He is more than willing to comment on unrelated issues, but when it comes to the part of the game that should be most relevant, he shows little interest. This post shows me that his scum read is influenced by whether or not he believes the town views it as a viable lynch. When a mafia player selects a bandwagon, they often due it based on where the town's sentiment lies. Once he realizes that DarthPunk isn't going to get lynched, he backs off, simply stating that he has responded well to pressure. Back to my point about his "defensive" phrasing of his vote, he has been acting quite defensive during the first two cycles. While a town player plays with confidence, Wave seems quite careful with his actions and is quite concerned with other's view of himself. Look how important it is to him for others to realize his meta based scum-hunting skills are sub-par. On four different occasions he makes this statement. In response to suspicion, he reacts quite strangely. Look how worked up he gets when GM names him as a scum read. There is essentially no pressure or votes on him at this point, yet he is responding as if he is about to be hammered. These are more examples of how important it is to him that he is seen in good light. Note how he has spent more time talking about his annoyance of getting suspected, than he does about DarthPunk earlier. His vote of GreYMisT also occurred at a time where GreYMisT was suspicious of him. Finally, I come to this post which is what caused me to look at him further. Look how squirmish he is in his response. This is at a point where he accidentally mentioned to a lynch, rather than a night kill. It was a 100% typo and a non-issue. Yet here is his talking about how his has to be more careful about not making mistakes and coming up with more excuses. Wave has show that he cares more about himself, than town. He is willing to share opinions on less important issues, while skimping in pushing town objectives when it comes to the lynch. He responds in a mafia manner to suspicion and posts with an attitude that lacks the look of a town player. I think he wo It's called a brain fart. I have them a lot, just ask anyone I've played mafia with thus far. I'm not exactly expecting Mocsta/VE/BH/whoever to come running to my rescue here since if any of them is scum this is an easy chance just to let me swing, but they know very well what I'm talking about. Keir did too. The best, the BEST part about all of this is more than half the people on this bandwagon are doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing, and that is sheeping onto a case with very little to back it up. Just +1 +1 +1. Enjoy it while it lasts, for I may be a sheep but I am not a red sheep. | ||
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On March 20 2013 10:11 ThePeashooter wrote: I think you might be a bit biased in your assessment of your cases. I find Kita's case to be exceptionally strong. You have to keep in mind what the goals are behind a post. What WoS is doing is a typical example of inexperienced scum and Kita illustrated it very well. He wants to be non confrontational and but also doesn't do anything towards town goals. It's that subconscious fear that every mafia player has to get over when the get a red role. You know you are scum, and you feel like everything you see is going to get scrutinized, but you can't say anything and you can't form your own cases because everyone else is town so any case you make you feel would be inherently suspicious. So you end up in this weird state where you are too scared to make your own bullshit case, but need to fake some level of contribution. The end result is the analysis that Kita gave. A skilled scum player learns to take a persons words and use them out of context knowing way too many people will just believe the context you put them in and create a case on someone that most other townies could feasibly get behind. The latter example is what I felt that Wade Fell was doing. However, I haven't done a full analysis on him to view what his motivations are behind his actions. Since it would be taken as OMGUS I preferred if Ace or Kita stepped up and lent a hand since I trust their skill in analyzing the situation and seeing if they agree or disagree with me. I could very well be letting my bias get the way which is why I wanted the help of someone else. Alright let's try TPS now. First of all, fuck you. First thing I was asked after Daypost popped up was do I want to sheep BH's case against you, and I said no, because I believed you were actually maybe capable of doing something useful for the town. Guess I was wrong. Second, inexperienced maybe. Scum, no. I haven't formed any major cases because I honestly can't find a target that hasn't been scrutinized to death already that I could bring something new to the table for. So I act with my vote when I need to. I don't exactly think I've been non-confrontational at all this game, but of course that's a matter of perception. I guess everything I did during the day can just be ignored as well as what I'm doing now, sure. I wish, I WISH you didn't look scummy as fuck because then I'd make a case against YOU, but I still believe you are town, fuck if I know why. Gut reads doing me real justice thus far. | ||
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Wiggle? You're scum. On March 20 2013 10:13 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Kita, what do you think of WoS' flip on his reads? He goes from being super-sure that Zarepath is scum and saying I'm his strongest town read, even baiting Zare into saying I'm scum to call him scum again, to wanting to lynch him as the day started, to agreeing with him, when all he did was reiterate the same stuff he said about me last night. So his read on him goes from scum -> town, and the last thing he's saying about him, is that something he did looks scummy. As for me, he's saying I'm town, and then that I'm scum, when all that happened is I made two posts at night, where I said I wasn't going to post reads, and was inactive for a while. His reads did a complete 180s, and the flips happened in line with what's popular at the time. This is the most activity and pushing you've done since the beginning of the game. Before this it's been all On March 20 2013 07:48 Mr. Wiggles wrote: As for not having a bunch of scum reads, the state of the game is a big mess right now. I need to read more. On March 20 2013 07:24 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Ok, I'm back. About the Peashooter case. Can someone point out the scum motivations in his posting to me? I see there's a case, but some of it seems like it's on an emotional basis, and some it's based on activity, neither of which I see as being valid for calling him scum. Reading through his posts, I don't see scum motivation though. He's not trying to misdirect us, and he's not trying that much to fit in and hide. The feeling I get from him is that he's just pretty angry, but it seem honest. For example, he got all mad at Coag, but then later he gets all mad at Kenpachi for similar reasons. So, he's consistent with it. Deleted a bit about layabout, I like his recent posting. I'm waiting on a couple of other people to continue posting. I'd like to see how they react to recent developments. As for VE/BH, I don't want to lynch into them right now. I'd rather let scum or vigs sort them out for us. I find them hard to read, because they play very emotionally, and they do/say a lot of things I find scummy/disagree with from a play perspective on a regular basis. If VE was actually shot, and BH is a mason, then scum will have to go after them sooner or later. If they don't, they're either going to start to doing good work as town, or else they're going to out themselves as scum, because if I remember right, their scum play isn't the greatest compared to their town play. I think we can find better targets for today. I'm going to do some stuff, and then read through some of the other posters who haven't really caught my attention or who have been avoiding the spotlight. I feel there's a good chance of finding scum among them. On March 19 2013 13:06 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Town my soul to keep, If I shall die before I wake, I pray the Town my soul to take. Then he'll really be dead tired YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH  I haven't really read too deeply since night time. I've been sort of skimming over the thread and reading a bit more for certain posts/posters, but that's it right now. I won't be awake to post stuff right before the deadline, so I've weighed between posting some stuff now about reads or just waiting, and I've opted to wait. I'm waiting to see what happens with the day post, and I haven't really gotten to pay close attention to the reactions to the GreY flip. Any post I make won't be much better than a Day 1 read, so I don't think it will help much as compared to the possibility of it becoming WIFOM if I die. I noticed some people questioning my decision making regarding GreY's lynch, and my last post before the flip, so I'll go a bit into my thought process. Basically, GreY was someone I was watching throughout the day. I thought he was scummy, and Ryu's post lined up a lot with what I was thinking about him. I wanted to see how GreY would react or try to defend himself, but unfortunately he never did. He just gave up, which put us in a crappy situation, because you can either weigh it as a townie giving up, or as a mafia ploy. Based on how he acted earlier, I concluded he was more likely to be scum, and voted for him. I said it was a bad situation, because when he just martyrs himself and acts apathetically, he doesn't give us anything else to work with, and you can't just drop the case because he stopped posting. I'll watch the thread for a little less than an hour if anyone has questions about some things for me. I don't really want to post a list of reads though. Boy oh BOY have YOU been useful. Annother one who just sits back, makes noncomittal reads and posts and waits for everyone else to do his scum work for him. And you have the AUDACITY to call ME out on this shit? Laughable. Just fucking laughable. | ||
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On March 20 2013 10:34 DarthPunk wrote: OK. So we are not Lynching viscera eyes today or maybe even tomorrow. The fact is that it's plain silly to lynch blue claims like that. I was leaning scummy on Blazinghand for a bit and you all know my position on viscera eyes. But the correct play is to wait and see. So that is what we do. I really like Blazinghands catch of that slip. I have caught scum with stuff like that before. And I got a bit of a town read on BH from the way he pushed it after wards. I don't want to lynch TPS today, though I think he should be closely watched. Kita's case is ridiculously good. It completely exposes a mindset of not caring about the lynch and just following popular trends. Which is NOT a town mindset. ##Vote: WaveofShadow Do I even need to go into detail on this one? Fuck even Coag called him out on this. Again I'm being accused of sheeping onto cases with one liners and OH WAIT, WHAT DO WE HAVE HERE?? So ridiculous you guys, just absolutely ridiculous. I give credit to cosmic for getting this shit started and disappearing off the face of the earth, and TPS for being the only one to actually post something worth responding to regarding me, and maybe ADDING something to this bullshit case against me. The rest of y'all, up to you if you want to continue sheeping now that all of your wool is keeping me warm at night. If you grow it back by tomorrow then at that point I can re-shear you and have enough for a couple sweaters or something. | ||
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On March 20 2013 12:29 sciberbia wrote: Hey WoS before you leave can you tell me if you think I'm scum? Who says I'm leaving? And let me look back at your filter for a minute, from what I remember you actually deserve the respect of a proper read-through unlike most of those others. | ||
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I read you as town. You've been sticking to your reads (a few too many lists for my liking but whatever) and I especially like that you've been attempting to keep zare in the spotlight, who also looks incredibly scummy to me and has for most of the game. Bring the aforementioned case against me if you must; I'll do my best to shut it down along with the rest, sigh. And what's that DP? I don't understand what you're saying, it's just coming out 'baaaa baaaa baaaaa.' | ||
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You want to read my last 5-6 posts and check again? | ||
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For those of you who are town-aligned on this bandwagon, let it be known: YOU ARE BEING HAD. | ||
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Not that I'd be surprised if cosmic showed up to join the bandwagon too lol | ||
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If you're tired of people making cases against you for doing dick all maybe you should... I dunno FUCKING DO SOMETHING? I'll give you a little hint here too. If I go down today you're not going to look very good. Especially for sheeping this case with no real contribution. Mocsta did you even fucking read this page? | ||
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On March 20 2013 13:33 VisceraEyes wrote: What is the scum motivation for doing that? You think he's town so....what's the point? Why would scum scramble to be first in line Coag? We're looking at two or three scum on the bandwagon right now at least. Lol if my shitposting does anything, at least it makes scum salivate at an easy (they think) lynch. I'm pretty sure Wiggle/Zare but I could see more. I still wanna say zare is scum rolecop based on his eagerness to find out role names. Note: role NAMES interest him more than the roles themselves. I will also give DP credit in that at least he has attempted to push his sheep-read unlike basically everyone else who voted me. | ||
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On March 20 2013 13:39 DarthPunk wrote: That is bullshit and you know it. The case on you had nothing to do with you calling me scum. It had to do with your complete misrepresentations of the facts in your case. I am not going to OMGUS everyone who calls me scum and I don't consider my case on you OMGUS period. For a smart guy you are being incredibly stupid. Care to finally tell me how on earth you had the gall to say townies never pressure or policy vote? or why the case against me was full of misrepresentations which countless others saw right through? Why would a vote 2 hours into the game be deemed acceptable pressure? Make yourself useful now that you're here. Thoughts on Zarepath? You're both an agreement that I should be lynched right now but let's pretend you're wrong for a minute. Where does that put him on your list, especially since you were ready to lynch him D1 before changing to VE. | ||
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On March 20 2013 13:44 DarthPunk wrote: You know. If WoS is town. I am certain one or both of mocsta/coag is scum. Seems like they are scrambling over themselves to give weak as fuck reasons to say WoS is townie DESPITE the kita case being absurdly strong. Lol or I've played 3 games with Mocsta and he knows my meta. And Coag isn't a complete idiot. (I do see your point, however I disagree. And now that you've brought it up it'll be interesting to see what the rest of the scum on my bandwagon do if it starts to falter.) | ||
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As to whether or not I'm worried, you can be the judge of that. Cosmic to answer your questions: No, I'll speak however I want. I posted a sort-of-defense to kita right after he first accused me and we had a little back-and-forth. If need be later on or tomorrow I'll go more in depth but I don't see the need right now. As far as giving people more fuel, where are those good intentioned townies to push their oh-so-towny cases against me? They voted and fucked off with all the scum that's where. | ||
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On March 20 2013 14:02 DarthPunk wrote: WTF kind of response is this?!?!? I can be the judge of whether you are worried or not? why the deliberate ambiguity? That rubs me the wrong way. You responded in a non townie way to that question. Townies would be suspicious as anything about town reads ripped from thin air. I can assure you. I am pretty confident this lynch is the right one. You'd be pretty wrong. I don't care what rubs you the wrong way. It's up to you whether or not you believe the townread Mocsta is giving based on my response to the cases against me, and whether you think that makes me worried based on that and earlier posts I've made. Now the only people who gave town reads were Coag and Mocsta, and I already mentioned that I understood your point but disagreed with it. As for the others, I'm not entirely sure they're all town but at the very least they all know my meta and haven't voted me whether they've said why or not. | ||
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On March 20 2013 14:12 DarthPunk wrote: OK let me try this another way. Objectively. How strong do you believe kita's case on you to be? Let me re-read. And I gotta say I like you much more than I did early game. This kind of pressure actually makes me feel good about town's chances rather than all of the others who have provided nothing yet are prepared to vote me into oblivion. Before I read it I want to say that I think his case was actually pretty good, though I think that speaks more about my play than it does kita's skill. (See Zare's fake case on me in NMM 37. It was designed to draw scum in to a bandwagon even though he had a townread on me and breadcrumbed it. The gambit failed, but the case on me was actually pretty solid; being my first mafia game ever my play was rllllll bad.) | ||
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Now to re-read the kitacase. | ||
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On March 20 2013 08:54 kitaman27 wrote: Finally have some spare time. I'll respond to a couple relavent issues, but first I wanted to get out a post on one of my strongest scum reads. I may have a second post about another player I'm suspicious of, depending on how much time I have. WaveofShadow The first player I'd like to bring up is WaveofShadow. Whenever I try to look at a player, the most important thing to look at in my opinion is motive. During the first few cycles of a game, it can be quite difficult to differentiate a townie post and a mafia post. The easiest way to tell the difference is to ask yourself, what is a player trying to accomplish with these posts and what does this player care most about. When I read through the filter of Wave, I can't help but notice that he is much more willing to play through others, than to put himself out there. On numerous occasions, we can see him prodding other players with questions, but there has been very little follow through. He questions other players reads, but fails to come to significant conclusions. Wave has approached the first two cycles in a way that shows me that he has little interest in being the guy that gets a player lynched. He is more interested in selecting a bandwagon based on the arguments of other players. In his support for the day one lynch, he posts the following: This is the first time in the game he actually mentions Darthpunk. He states in a single line that he supports VE's case, yet provides no reasoning for why he agrees. Notice how defensive he gets with his vote. In reference to his disapproval of VE's circle he states "Call that scummy if you wish." At a point where he has selected his preferred lynch candidate, he is still spending more time discussing VE's completely irrelevant circle. For the sake of keeping this post legible, I've edited out the previous part of this quote, but he spends a whole paragraph discussing the deal with yamato. Why is it that he is spending more time discussing events not relevant to his scumread, than the actual vote itself? It would be one thing if VE's case was so convincing that he had nothing to add. However, when I ask myself, does he care about this lynch, I come to the conclusion that he does not. DarthPunk is his preferred lynch candidate, but at this point he has put absolutely no effort in pushing his selection. He is more than willing to comment on unrelated issues, but when it comes to the part of the game that should be most relevant, he shows little interest. This post shows me that his scum read is influenced by whether or not he believes the town views it as a viable lynch. When a mafia player selects a bandwagon, they often due it based on where the town's sentiment lies. Once he realizes that DarthPunk isn't going to get lynched, he backs off, simply stating that he has responded well to pressure. Back to my point about his "defensive" phrasing of his vote, he has been acting quite defensive during the first two cycles. While a town player plays with confidence, Wave seems quite careful with his actions and is quite concerned with other's view of himself. Look how important it is to him for others to realize his meta based scum-hunting skills are sub-par. On four different occasions he makes this statement. In response to suspicion, he reacts quite strangely. Look how worked up he gets when GM names him as a scum read. There is essentially no pressure or votes on him at this point, yet he is responding as if he is about to be hammered. These are more examples of how important it is to him that he is seen in good light. Note how he has spent more time talking about his annoyance of getting suspected, than he does about DarthPunk earlier. His vote of GreYMisT also occurred at a time where GreYMisT was suspicious of him. Finally, I come to this post which is what caused me to look at him further. Look how squirmish he is in his response. This is at a point where he accidentally mentioned to a lynch, rather than a night kill. It was a 100% typo and a non-issue. Yet here is his talking about how his has to be more careful about not making mistakes and coming up with more excuses. Wave has show that he cares more about himself, than town. He is willing to share opinions on less important issues, while skimping in pushing town objectives when it comes to the lynch. He responds in a mafia manner to suspicion and posts with an attitude that lacks the look of a town player. I think he would make an excellent lynch today. Kita's first post: Solid reads actually, though they're not for the reasons he thinks. He's right I didn't do much scumhunting of my own D1 because as I have stated before, I didn't have any strong reads. VE's case on DP struck a chord with me because I was previously schooled on how useless it is to drop a 'pressure' vote on a lurker in the first few hours so I got on board. As for attempting to make myself look good, I believe I responded to that already: The reason I want to be seen in a good light is because I'm town, and don't want people wasting their time trying to point out my dumb mistakes when they should be scumhunting for REAL scum. Who are the lynch targets for today that need to pushed that I'm skimping on? Up until your recent post calling for an end to it, I was attempting to push both BH and VE to see what I could get from them, as well as zare earlier in the day. No, I haven't voted yet, but the day is young, good sir. His second post: + Show Spoiler + On March 20 2013 09:39 kitaman27 wrote: Being defensive is a newbie scum trait, so I don't think that really plays much of a part. This is his 5th or 6th game though, so he should be more than capable of pushing a case. In one of his early posts he mentions how he would rather not provide a scum read until he is prepared to develop a strong case. It's 100+ hours and 60ish pages into the game and he still hasn't done so. This is my 5th game, yes. And I am very capable of pushing a case but usually in order for me to be capable it requires me to act like a fucking idiot first (see Hydra Mini Mafia) and get pressure on myself to get my ass in gear. I'm not sure why or why I'm incapable of fearlessly making cases before this happens in non-newbie games. (NMM 38 is the obvious exception; I played that very well in my opinion because I was more experienced than nearly everyone in there and either didn't post any bullshit to get called out on or they were too new to recognize it). Third: + Show Spoiler + On March 20 2013 09:45 kitaman27 wrote: I write up a case against you and your response is that you've never lied? Where am I calling you a liar? My case is that you show no interest in pushing a lynch. Even with this post, you ask "who are the lynch targets"? A town player decides a lynch target and pushes it on other players. A mafia player looks at the bandwagons and selects his favorite. I don't need another player to defend you. I'd like a response from yourself on the issues I mentioned. Using lying when unprovoked was an odd way to go, I'll admit, but I stand by my thoughts on meta, which I DID bring up before Mocsta, albeit really badly. He said what I should have though I'm not sure how compelling it would have been coming out of my own mouth. Fourth: + Show Spoiler + On March 20 2013 09:48 kitaman27 wrote: This is exactly what I'm referring to. Just minutes earlier you posted about how you wanted to know who where the lynch candidates in order to determine who to look at. Now you're voting Wiggles with a one line explanation. You clearly couldn't have taken the time to read through the filters of the players you just asked about. So why is it that you are voting based on town sentiment, rather than finding a player that you believe is scum and explaining to everyone why you believe this is the case. Early on in the day Wiggle said a few things that made me gut-read him as town but then looking over him I realized I had no reason to think as such. During the day multiple times I make mention of him appearing scummier to me. Fifth: It's completely relevant. In conclusion, Kita's case is not weak at all, it's my own fault for not playing as fearlessly as I should be early game and not defending myself with meta properly when I should have. Now I have defended myself in full and if people choose to go with it, great. If I'm still up for lynch then....we'll see how tomorrow goes. | ||
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Mocsta can be fairly manipulative, but if he was scum why would he essentially write a huge meta case against me when he could have just has easily found one the many smaller reasons I looked scummy? Especially since it ended up being a massive defense for me? Again, I get what you're saying but they both look decently townie in my eyes. I should probably read into Mocsta at some point but it's late as hell right now and I've got to go to bed before my kid wakes up. Either way, now I think it's probably most pertinent to have a look at the people still on my wagon and why. I will be pushing Zare and Wiggle tomorrow, though I don't necessarily believe they must be the only scum on board. | ||
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In hydra the blue-slip was Soniv, and we were planning on claiming later in the day anyway. It worked out in our favour as we had planned anyway. In LX I don't think my bid for pardoner was stupid either and I made a decent case for it whether or not people wanted the role to be killed off or go to a townie. Anyway, night! | ||
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So much wasted time on me. You really want me to bust out the trump card, don't you? | ||
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Wanna guess again? | ||
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Looking way too much into shit that isn't there and I can't go through 2 pages of posts and try to turn you off of all of it. I was going to wait until later tonight but I guess it doesn't matter now. Maybe one of these mafia games I'll actually learn how to play. It's up to you guys, but I'm dead by the end of N2 anyway. If you don't kill me mafia will now. | ||
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If my death N2 means that can happen well then fine; at least I contributed somehow. | ||
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Oh I even crumbed it a little if you guys are smart. | ||
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The difference is I have actually attempted to steer you in the right direction while the scum go by unscathed because no one gives a shit enough to put pressure on them. | ||
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On March 20 2013 22:54 Mocsta wrote: (1) This reads to me as: Wild Goose hunt to disrupt scum hunting Day2 (2) Reminds me of what I did in Hydra setting up for the JK claim.. effectively stopped discussion for a good couple hours Yeah, except the game was solved already so it didn't matter. I'm not trying to stop discussion, I'm trying to make sure you guys don't waste another lynch and at least force mafia to dispose of me. | ||
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On March 20 2013 22:58 Vivax wrote: WoS you seem to be tilting. Convince people about someone being a better lynch than you. If you roleclaim I will lynch you nontheless. Mocsta another thing: During N1 and early D2 you were on zarepath calling him scummy about a lot of things (remember how he asked about the rolename?). Now you seem to have lost track, what's your current read of zare? I don't have all day to try and convince the entire fucking town not to make a huge mistake. I put forth a whole bunch of effort into it last night and that wasn't enough; I'm not trying again. If the roleclaim isn't enough to do it then it's out of my hands. I'll say it again: you guys are heavily overanalyzing everything I have done this game. Everything I have said thus far in this game and every game is nothing but the truth. | ||
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(It's a shame I can't post videos, I had a perfect one for this. Look up Alan Parson's Project: "Eye In the Sky." Fantastic song.) I am The Eye Lynch away! | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:07 Mocsta wrote: WoS.. i dont care what the role is can we know who you performed the action on? Nope! You're smart...figure it out. | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:11 DarthPunk wrote: OK here is how this works. You claim your full role and give us any crumbs. Don't care about the night kill or w/e it is far far better for you to be night killed than for us to potentially mislynch you. Really? You think so? | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:14 Vivax wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 20 2013 23:11 Mocsta wrote: Can i call that a delurk? lol actually my primary suspect hasnt chagned since my first read of p7-p20 the other day and my read now of p7-p15 tonight. If it wasnt clear who that was since I joined the thread, its BH I thought it was GK. + Show Spoiler + On March 19 2013 03:09 Mocsta wrote: Im only up to p13. but GoodKarma is scum yo On March 19 2013 03:24 Mocsta wrote: I agree DYH Im up to p15 and my two strongest reads are: GoodKarma + zarepath zarepath already from his first 10 posts, is posting completely different to the 3-4 games I played with him in the past 1 to 2 months (he was town in all of them). 3rd read = weak is Vivax from his first post.. very odd reads, but will reevaluate as i read more of the thread. I thought it was me. | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:28 Vivax wrote: WoS I looked for crumbs in N1 and couldn't find anything. Are you a DT, a watcher, an organ? What were your actions? You claimed so there's no point in holding secrets now. Awww you actually looked. Yay someone listened to me! Here's one. On March 19 2013 14:15 WaveofShadow wrote: Goodie. I'm always interested to hear what people think about me and I'm particularly interested in TPS. On March 20 2013 12:17 WaveofShadow wrote: Alright let's try TPS now. First of all, fuck you. First thing I was asked after Daypost popped up was do I want to sheep BH's case against you, and I said no, because I believed you were actually maybe capable of doing something useful for the town. Guess I was wrong. Second, inexperienced maybe. Scum, no. I haven't formed any major cases because I honestly can't find a target that hasn't been scrutinized to death already that I could bring something new to the table for. So I act with my vote when I need to. I don't exactly think I've been non-confrontational at all this game, but of course that's a matter of perception. I guess everything I did during the day can just be ignored as well as what I'm doing now, sure. I wish, I WISH you didn't look scummy as fuck because then I'd make a case against YOU, but I still believe you are town, fuck if I know why. Gut reads doing me real justice thus far. | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:33 DarthPunk wrote: Stop playing games. Claim properly. behaving like this around the claim has already lost you a heap of credit in my eyes. Remember how I said I don't lie? Here's me not lying: I don't give a shit. | ||
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Well I got alignment too. | ||
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Had I gone longer without having to reveal, before every nightcheck I would refer to someone being 'particularly interesting.' | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:41 DarthPunk wrote: The game is not about survival. I usually survive a long time as town. That just shows me I need to improve my town game a lot. Most of the good players get shot really early unless they are playing realy badly. For example, marv from personality 2. You are playing well IMO. You just need to stop acting so strangely around your claim. lolwut Well? If I was playing well I wouldn't constantly make so many dumbass posts it basically forces town to assume I'm scum every game. Anyway, note how post nightflip I refuse to join BH's bandwagon against TPS immediately and in the post calling him out for his vote against me I note how scummy his behaviour is yet my 'gutread' refers to him as town. | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:42 zarepath wrote: Wait, so Wave, you can DT somebody and you learn their role and their alignment? Apparently so? There is a circumstance where I think this may not be true since again, my PM says nothing about alignment, but my rolecheck result surprised me. | ||
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Can we please start paying attention to all the people who sheeped me yesterday and still haven't shown up before all of my defenses and new evidence showed up after I went to bed? | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:49 zarepath wrote: So you know the name of TPS's role? I don't think there's any harm in revealing the name of the role, and then TPS can confirm whether that's his name or not. Are you my scum counterpart? | ||
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I was making it work for me just like we did in Hydra mafia, but then it backfired in the exact same way. We were looking just scummy enough for mafia to leave us alive hoping for the mislynch, but trying to contribute enough so that town would leave us alone. Same thing here and I thought after last night I had it under control.....you guys......... | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:59 zarepath wrote: It concerns me if a red Eye can get away with pretending to be blue. He's been incredibly vague his entire role claim, and his breadcrumb isn't actually a breadcrumb. He could have taken any sentence he said about TPS on N1 and said "I was going to say this phrase every time I checked someone." It's true his read on him changed, but his read changed on a lot of people (Wiggles) for seemingly no reason. Silence, scum. I'll get to YOU. And that doesn't make any sense. Why wouldn't I just leave TPS to look scummy as all hell if I knew he was town from the start? To set up some elaborate scheme where I'd pretend I rolechecked him and then defend him just to look townie? You CLEARLY overestimate my abilities. I am the only one who is allowed to make conspiracy theories here. | ||
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On March 21 2013 00:05 Mocsta wrote: Unfortunately, my defense for you was based on pushing a lynch Day1, which was then pointed out to be false. The context of newbie DT makes sense for the behaviour of not pushing the lynch; thus, mitigating Kita case in my opinion. Hopefully when night comes, you will be medic protected. *fingers crossed* Why do you think I was so confident when I pulled this out you guys would be changing your minds? (WIFOM I guess but whatever) I really wanted to play this game longer. They's gunna double up on me. Oh well at least I die knowing that townies with actual useful analysis and scumhunting skills will survive! | ||
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On March 21 2013 00:07 zarepath wrote: You didn't have to make up an elaborate scheme, you just had to make something up when you were going to get lynched and needed to find someone it could look like you'd breadcrumbed. I can't imagine that would be hard to do. You were slow in actually claiming, in presenting your breadcrumbs, and have only been antagonistic the entire process. It's almost as if you were deliberately delaying while you found something you could present as a breadcrumb. I thought that breadcrumbs in non-newbie games were supposed to be really obvious things in retrospect, like using certain capitals or a cipher or whatever. I don't see what town loses if you claim the name of TPS's role (you don't have to say its power or anything, if it has one or not), and he can say "Yes, that's right." Your breadcrumb wasn't convincing and you still haven't explained your switch on Mr. Wiggles, even though he was one of your strongest town reads. I think it's fine to require more proof. I was delaying because I didn't want the game to essentially end for me. In any case scumepath, I said I would be dedicating today to see you or Wiggle hang, so off I go. | ||
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If a few hours from now people agree I'll release the role name. | ||
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On March 21 2013 00:27 Ace wrote: zarepath I think this is a scenario of someone playing badly as Town rather than a Scum screwing up the claim. Unless Wos is running some kind of gamble here, he just looks like someone silly /newbie enough to put his own survival over winning as a part of the Town. I feel like from the last few pages we have mostly pro-Town players arguing over trivial stuff. We should start looking at the people on WoS's wagon, especially if you believe he is innocent. I would cross-check that with anyone who tried to push keirathi before his/her death at night and the GreyMist lynch. that being said was GreyMist town? the way it's written is ambiguous. This actually makes my night action PM a little more interesting. Is it automatically assumed that blue always = town? | ||
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I wonder what BH, best scum hunter on TL, has to say about my revelations. And whether he might be wrong about you, zare. | ||
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On March 21 2013 00:57 VisceraEyes wrote: The "Mirror" is a third party cult leader of some kind and he tried to recruit me last night. Everyone beware "The Mirror" - he is in our midst and he will try and convert you too. The fuck, where did that come from? Why pick specifically now to release that info? (Also kinda reminds me of your D1 ploy lololol) Logs? | ||
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On March 21 2013 01:20 VisceraEyes wrote: + Show Spoiler [The Mirror] + 8 VisceraEyes Fuck it I accept. If I'm going to be ignored by most of the thread, I might as well punish them for it. 7 The Mirror Of course I have countermeasures for survival. I would not have been given such an arduous task if it were not. And it seems like you are perceptive enough to understand what I offer you. Do not fret about the delay in notification. That seems to be ... a trend this game. I shall inform you that playing "townie" will be in your best interest, and will hardly conflict with the greater purpose you shall receive. Everything will be made ... crystal clear. A-haha. 6 VisceraEyes sciberbia you should probably give me the specifics of your role because you're essentially claiming 3rd party to me here. I have received no notification from DocH that my win condition has changed, so as far as I'm aware I still win with town. You see what sticky situation this puts me in. 5 VisceraEyes Ooohhhh you're good. You're REAL good. Tell me how this arrangement works. Because I'm assuming that I am already a part of whatever you have planned considering the choice of whether to be masoned with you or not is mine. You're representing "townie" super hard and scum are going to want to kill you. Does your role account for this? 4 VisceraEyes Too late you invited the wrong guy. I'm a compulsive claimer you see and have already revealed you to the thread. That would have been cool though. No, if I keep surviving town would just lynch me. I'm of no use to you I'm afraid. But I may be of use to town. Thanks for the offer though! I'll tell you what: I'll give you until D4 to gather as many supporters as you can, then I reveal your purposes to town and we hunt you down. That is, if I live that long :OOOOOOOOO Unless you can convince me? If you have the power to give me what you say, surely you have a purpose in mind for bestowing it to me. If I were to...know that purpose? 3 The Mirror Welcome, VisceraEyes, to my humble abode. I come to offer you a titillating proposition. I have powers. Oh so great powers. And it seems like you too have a great power. I want you to join me. I want you to employ you for my services, and in return I shall bestow upon you even greater power. Even, dare I say it, immortality. "Surely you jest" you may think. But think closer again. I have already begun to recruit the brightest and crafty of minds. Town, mafia, these factions are child's play. These are just mere pawns in the greater power that is I, the Mirror. I offer you an invitation to join me. It does not matter whether you herald town or scum. If you are town, you have quite the powerful role. But dare I muse, it cannot be without limit? To you I offer an impregnable shield, one who will not falter during the night. Hide behind he and you can gain for yourself immortality. If you are scum, then you will play the part of the double agent. Use your former teammates at your disposal. Manipulate the scum team to your own devices? To be numbered among the greats such as Keyser Söze, Mr. Orange, William "Billy" Costigan, Jr. or Staff Sgt. Colin Sullivan. Perhaps, to live out the dream that could have been Bureaucracy? Of course if you are neither, you already know my purposes, and that you are but a step behind. Pressure me, threaten me, do as you wish, for I know it is all but a meaningless bluff. My reach is infinite and it is not long that I will gather enough for my grand purposes. You may choose to join, you may choose to decline. What I offer you isn't employment ... but true freedom. 2 VisceraEyes I demand satisfaction, mystery mason! REVEAL YOURSELF! 1 VisceraEyes Interesting development. -.- I suspected it was sciberbia based on the timing of the posting, but I don't think that's the case any longer. I told him I accept and immediately unmasoned him (I was told masoning with him was at my will) and came to the thread. Uh....so...you accept? Does that make you 3rd party now and we have to lynch you? | ||
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That excludes a fair amount of people..... | ||
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BH, VE, layabout and The above is probably a harder assumption to make, but I'm at least certain that none of the newer players here would have gone back to research old games they didn't even know about just to throw in that one reference. Now I'm also wondering about what he was referring to regarding that 'immortality' shit. Is it possible for there to be a role that enhances other roles? /speculation Hey VE, are you going to comment on this pot of shit you've just stirred up? What is going through our head right now? | ||
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On March 21 2013 01:48 zarepath wrote: Do any vets have any idea what the other references were? I honestly only considered the Bureaucracy mafia a reference to TL mafia games; the others are references to famous moles/traitors in movies. Have those specific names been used in other games of TL Mafia? If so then I'm 100% sure it must be a veteran mafia player of significant tenure here. If not (which is what I assume) I'm betting on one of the smurfs. | ||
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Is that just him giving up? This really sucks especially if VE was town; we're going to be looking at 13-14/5/? D3 Unvote: Mr. Wiggles Vote: VisceraEyes | ||
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On March 21 2013 01:56 Mocsta wrote: With the information standing.. this is fuckn suspicious, and whose pushing the VE vote. its ACE Why cant he be the mirror? Seriously.. why the fuck would VE out himself like this... I dont see what layabout posted has anythign to do with it.. OK hes a compulsive claimer..perhaps.. surely thats only as blue roles.. not a claimer as scum/3rd party.. The whole situation doesnt make sense. You're right, it doesn't, but until given more information what else can we go on? We can't risk an outed 3rd party with possible empowered role escaping unpunished. | ||
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On March 21 2013 01:57 Wade Fell wrote: Ok dude Mocsta you say "this situation is confusing" but really is there ANY explanation for this situation, no matter how confused you are, where VE ISN'T third-party who we need to lynch? I thought of something, which might fit to the suspicion of no timestamps. What if for whatever reason VE has to get lynched as 3rd party to accomplish something for his new team? It's not enough to make me unvote him, but I'll ask the rest of you; is that kind of a situation possible? | ||
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On March 21 2013 02:09 layabout wrote: The need to look for scum doesn't change the fact that we should lynch VE. What do you make of these 3? TestSubject893 glurio TranceStorm Trance is yet another player who just jumped on board the Wavetrain albeit with a little more effort than some of the others. On March 20 2013 16:56 TranceStorm wrote: Good spot, its an astonishing 180 degree turnaround. Moreover, in the posts you quoted earlier, he acts in a very arrogant manner as if to suggest the town is playing poorly; now he wants us to believe that he has been playing a poor townie all along. I can't buy the emotional appeals he's making. I think that you are making a little too much of the cosmicomics connection at the moment though. That can be looked into if WoS does indeed flip red. Mind you, if WoS is scum, then my suspicions against TPS are probably completely wrong. And now he's wrong about both me AND TPS! I still think glurio is town based on gameplay alone, though if you consider the fact that he's barely been to the thread at all, that's scummy glurio. I'll be able to tell his alignment for sure if he comes back and contributes a little. If he doesn't at all, he's scum. TestSubject I got nothing. I have to go look. | ||
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Vig that guy. | ||
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Everyone zare listed has a 1-2 page filter and we're almost at the end of D2. | ||
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Like wtf. | ||
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On March 21 2013 02:33 VisceraEyes wrote: Because it makes sense to accept to become a part of this third party entity and then bring it to the thread. LOL ##Unvote ##Vote: VisceraEyes Thanks guys - I was worried that reading and thinking about this game while at work tonight was gonna get me fired. Now I don't have to! ^^ GL town. Ok, VE, you're right, it doesn't make sense. Maybe if you fucking explained yourself instead of giving up entirely. | ||
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Your reads don't matter anymore at all if you're 3rd party now because you're not playing to win with the town anymore. We can use them to try on logic through some stuff I guess, but we don't know what you motivation is for joining 3rd party so how can we trust your reads you made before this point? We need a proper explanation from you regarding the 'Mirror' QT. | ||
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Whether or not you 'actually accepted,' is WIFOM now and you've created a problem for us and yourself by doing that if, as you say, youre still town. | ||
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On March 21 2013 02:49 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm NOT third party though that's what I'm saying. I think to become third party I would have had to stay masoned with him for longer. I broke communication immediately upon "accepting" because that was my supposition. I got a PM saying I was masoned with "The Mirror" and given a QT. I tried to get them to speak for a bit then I outted the MASONING first. And after he finally responded, I tried to get info out of him. Since he was not forthcoming I decided that I was done with him and outted it to the thread. That's IT. That's my explanation. If you believe that I'm ACTUALLY a part of a secret third party cult, and that I figured my best move was to OUT this secret third party cult to the thread WHEN NOBODY KNOWS IT EXISTS, then I can't do anything in my defense. Literally, there's nothing Ican do or say to change what you believe because it's already based on ludicrous reasoning. Alright, I understand where you're coming from now, thanks for the explanation. Now is there any reason you couldn't have done what you explained above without saying 'I accept?' It's those two words that cause the problem. If you had done all this without it we probably wouldn't be as intent to lynch you. We don't know what it takes to join the 3rd party, and supposedly neither do you, so all we have to go on here is your word. Do you see how this causes a problem? | ||
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A LOT. | ||
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On March 21 2013 02:58 Wade Fell wrote: Anyone who's not voting VE needs to make a good case why we aren't just lynching the claimed scum. "Oh he might not have kp" and "he's playing against his wincon" (which is probably true regardless of his alignment) are not good reasons. Who? | ||
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Also considering you were tunneling TPS for most of the game thus far, any scumreads for us? I really do wish TPS would show up and do something. Why couldn't I have checked someone I could be proud of confirming. | ||
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We do still need to find scum, I agree Mocsta. I'm nto as certain of zare anymore but he still doesn't look great to me. Wiggle is my #1 if for whatever reason we can find VE's explanation feasible enough not to lynch him. | ||
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Why Vivax over Wiggle? | ||
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Right now my vote is either going towards Wiggle or VE, and I am willing to vote with town sentiment on such matters (ie whether or not we feel that VE as 3rd party (if he is) needs to die right now). At this point I also know who I'd check N2; it's a shame I'm going to be dead. | ||
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On March 21 2013 04:08 VisceraEyes wrote: I am not the one screaming lynch VE the evjk thief partyy But he's right, VE. What is the town motivation for doing what you did when you did? What were your goals in outing the 3rd party? Are you trying to get the town to go after The Mirror? If not, then why bother outing him then and there to derail the thread? | ||
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Coag why do you feel we need to be voting Wiggles rather than VE today? | ||
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Are you calling geript a dildo or putting one in him? I might approve of either. | ||
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On March 21 2013 05:47 glurio wrote: Ok i believe WoS's claim and unvote him. Oh for fuck sakes. Lynch this guy once you're done with VE/Wiggles. | ||
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On March 21 2013 06:04 DoYouHas wrote: Any theories on who the mirror could be? I don't think I would be capable of that kind of dramatic posting. Who in this game is? BH would be on the list but he is off the table for this question. Oh and as for who the Mirror theories are: On March 21 2013 01:47 WaveofShadow wrote: So, speculation time about The Mirror (assuming it exists and isn't some sort of fabrication). BH, VE, layabout and The above is probably a harder assumption to make, but I'm at least certain that none of the newer players here would have gone back to research old games they didn't even know about just to throw in that one reference. Now I'm also wondering about what he was referring to regarding that 'immortality' shit. Is it possible for there to be a role that enhances other roles? /speculation Hey VE, are you going to comment on this pot of shit you've just stirred up? What is going through our head right now? | ||
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On March 21 2013 06:50 glurio wrote: What did you expect? Staying on you after you blue-claimed? No, I'm expecting you to have more than 15 posts to your name by the end of D2. You posted most of those right at the start of D1, then disappeared all day, then did the same thing D2. Classic 'pretending to contribute' then lurking. You're scum but I doubt I could get a strong enough wagon going on you today when there's still Mr. Wiggles to consider. You played better than this in LX, and EXACTLY like this in NMM 36, where you were scum. On February 04 2013 08:06 glurio wrote: Thanks for that post marvel. I'd like to apologize to everyone for me being so inactive. I actually was lurking a lot this game. After the last game i wanted to contribute much more but rolled scum and often was too scared to post. Because everything i wrote up sounded incredibly scummy or stupid, so i didn't. Since most of town were killing each other anyway. I'll try to make the next game more fun for everyone. | ||
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On March 21 2013 08:56 glurio wrote: Ok i'll go with my gut feel and vote for Mocsta. I thought about the VE 3rd party situation and i can't convince myself he's scum. In my eyes most likely "the Mirror" is a scum mason and his line (3rd party join my cult and i'll get stronger) is just some well thought out scam to confuse town. No clue why he accepted the claim, that is the part that does not make sense, His vet claim seems legit, since (setup speculation) scum has most likely 2 KP with this many players and no one else claimed getting hit. (or saved, or jailed, or blocked) Since lynch time is really terrible for europeans (4 AM i think), i'll vote for mocsta and go to sleep. ##Vote: Mocsta I honestly don't think there's any point in entertaining this. All he has done this game is throw out one case/accusation per day then disappears for 24 hours. Where are our fucking vigs.... | ||
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On March 21 2013 09:02 kitaman27 wrote: Hmm it looks like Wave gets a pass for a cycle. If we're both around after tonight, then I'll reevaluate. I have no clue what VE is doing. The part that doesn't match up with the thought process of a town player is that if VE was truly trying to out the mirror's identity to the thread, he wouldn't immediately break off contact. What's the point of "fake" joining to learn the mirrors identity, if you stop talking to him the moment you try to gain his trust. I'd support Wiggles or GK as an alternative, but I don't have the couple hours I'd need to put a case together and push a lynch at the moment. Oh don't worry kita, I won't be. Thanks for the help with that. *glare* | ||
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Kita, fuck re-evaluating, I viewed you as town after your case last night. What are your thoughts on being wrong? Seriously though, will you be voting to eliminate possible 3rd party tonight or scum (ie Wriggles) and why? | ||
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GK, thought re: questions I asked kita? Sciberbia what about you? How in the FUCK is town supposed to win this game when nobody DOES anything. | ||
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On March 21 2013 09:15 Vivax wrote: As pointed out with the Bureaucreacy slip in the qt, The Mirror is probably layabout. This also is displayed by his lack of involvement in the game and certain anti-town traits I noticed. I am still confident zarepath, GK and cosmicomics are scum. However, as I see it as of now there are the 2 wildcards I mentioned earlier: Given Trancestorm's latest entrance and a look at his filter I feel he is a good candidate for one of the spots, in the other spot I see fitting either Coag, WF or kita. Coag obviously the guy I'm least sure about. Fairly confident in saying that scum is pushing the Wiggles wagon currently, and VE is grasping at the most likely lynch according to common opinions to save his own hide right now. Nah, 'cause I want Wiggles dead too. I could see the layabout thing being right, but it could also be an obvious frame attempt. Kita is not scum imo. | ||
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On March 21 2013 09:31 ThePeashooter wrote: To elaborate on this, since it's probably relevant. He got my role as "Fool" and one fool has already flipped so that must of struck him as odd. I'm still on page 79 so I have a bit to catch up on. Alright you confirmed, so that's good. What struck me as odd was that I didn't think I was going to get alignment with the role, yeah. | ||
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So are you saying you'd rather go for Wriggle today than VE? | ||
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Why the fuck are we allowing all these lurkers who haven't done shit just pop up and try to point the goddamn thread in whatever direction they please? If you guys are town you should be fucking ashamed of yourselves for being WORSE than useless; you're trying to fucking hinder our progress with your shitty, half-assed cases. As far as I can tell we need to consolidate right now. It doesn't look as though Wiggles is going to bother coming back, so are we voting SCUM, or POSSIBLE 3RD PARTY?? I believe VE is ahead in the votes right now so if people want Wiggles lynched, better make your cases soon. | ||
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You REALLY think my claim is fake? K. Mocsta, shut up about glurio, he's useless and yes he's scummy we can lynch him after we figure out the rest of this clusterfuck we call a game. Are we seriously talking about lynching Coag now too? Good lord. | ||
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I agree he REALLY could be contributing more but there are guiltier parties who have contributed less. GK I honestly don't know because I think my read on him really depends on what's up with BH. Just like half the thread GK has very little in terms of posting/contribution but I could see town. Seems really unlikely that the logs are fabricated between two scum partners (BH/GK) despite my conspiracy theory post about timestamps that everyone mostly ignored anyway. My top non-VE lynch right now is Wiggles and will remain as such; I will vote with the town in their infinite wisdom and as the evidence for VE's innocence has been piling up, I'm wondering if I should switch. | ||
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On March 21 2013 11:12 sciberbia wrote: I have read every page of the thread at least once, and I do in fact have major doubts about your claim, as I just said. Maybe I'm wrong though. We'll see D3 I guess. What about my claim do you doubt? Actually nvm for now we have to get the votes rolling on the proper targets. Will you tell me after the flip? I'll try to ease your doubts but ultimately I guess you're right D3 will tell you. | ||
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On March 21 2013 11:17 Mocsta wrote: Advice for all games... many townies fall into the trap of having a strong town read, on someone who sees them as town (when they are under threat) Please consider: scum *know* your alignment; town *think* they know your alignment. Its up to you to make the judgement on whether the town read is genuine; or falsified. I don't see it being a smart move on scum's part to defend me when I looked as scummy as I did. If I had flipped blue sure he could've been all like 'SEE I TOLD YOU GUYS,' but then if you're the only person defending me when the rest of the thread, town and scum agrees to vote me, that doesn't look very good for the reasons you described, does it? As for VE/Wiggles cases I'll see what I can find and consolidate but not only is that going to be difficult for me to sift through since the VE reads aren't mine and I don't remember who else made Wiggles cases, but also because I don't know myself which of the two I'll be voting yet. | ||
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I don't suppose the fact that I believe Wriggles to be scummy means anything to anyone since VE has gotten on board and no one trusts him huh? On March 20 2013 12:22 WaveofShadow wrote: Let's see who's the next sheep that needs to be sheared? Wiggle? You're scum. This is the most activity and pushing you've done since the beginning of the game. Before this it's been all Boy oh BOY have YOU been useful. Annother one who just sits back, makes noncomittal reads and posts and waits for everyone else to do his scum work for him. And you have the AUDACITY to call ME out on this shit? Laughable. Just fucking laughable. He comes back once during the day to post this in response to me: On March 20 2013 12:55 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Hey everyone, look how mad I am! I must be town, because I'm sooooooooooooooo frustrated! I'm tired of people making cases on me based on me not sitting on my ass playing mafia all day to the exclusion of other things. You don't see me blowing up. Because stupid emotional appeals are shit play or scum trying to worm out of a lynch. ##Vote: WaveofShadow Making excuses for his lack of contribution, calling me out for emotionally appealing when he is essentially doing the EXACT SAME THING IN THE SAME POST. I honestly don't understand how no one is seeing this. Also how in BLUE FUCK did TPS slip under the radar again? On March 21 2013 09:31 ThePeashooter wrote: To elaborate on this, since it's probably relevant. He got my role as "Fool" and one fool has already flipped so that must of struck him as odd. I'm still on page 79 so I have a bit to catch up on. That was hours ago. I know I read him as town but FUCK. How in the hell are we ever going to win this game if we have townies like this guy?? | ||
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On March 21 2013 12:08 Vivax wrote: WoS that guy is your green DT check how is it a concern for you that he slips under the radar? Maybe your claim was fake after all. No, I'm pissed that it's the same people contributing. Mafia don't even have to NK half of our townies because they don't do anything and we're going to lose because of it. Let me read into GK, DP. I'm so frustrated with this game. | ||
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Lol I was right, you DIDN'T read the thread. You assume my blue claim was false but you have no idea what I fucking did with my role? | ||
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You people wonder why I don't make cases and just sheep, shit like this is why. I can barely throw something coherent together and when I do I get shit on. A guy who doesn't contribute at all and barely shows up does one thing which will probably essentially remove all suspicion of him and any chance of him getting lynched tonight. Just tell me who to vote for and I'll do it; I'm dead tomorrow night anyway. | ||
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On March 21 2013 12:14 sciberbia wrote: @WoS I did read the thread and I know you claim to have investigated TPS. Which is why it's odd to me that you bring him up as useless and say you "read" him as town when if you are a cop then you know for a fact he is town. Anyway, you are not the lynch today so I'm dropping this. I will read Wiggles's case and probably end up consolidating onto GK unless it is like the best case I've ever read. Oh please. 'Read,' "Checked,' same thing. All the info is out there. If every case against me is going to be built on semantics then you guys may as well policy lynch me from the start of every game considering how many mistakes I make. | ||
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Unvote: Mr. Wiggles Vote: Goodkarma | ||
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TL;DR The Mirror is likely the true role of whoever masoned VE; it's just a matter of what alignment they are. | ||
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On March 21 2013 12:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Three of you just switched to Good Karma in the last twenty minutes. He only has four votes. Why can't we kill Ace again? I'd rather trust DP with my vote than you, honestly. | ||
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On March 21 2013 12:39 goodkarma wrote: Maybe if people were actually around. But with the weird hour of this deadline, that's not necessarily the case... Oh really? If you had been around at all during the day, you'd probably know that this is probably the most people we've had actively posting in the thread all day. | ||
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Look at Ryu, kita, Wiggles, glurio--- plenty of people posting cases without a great deal of followup. I'm not voting cc today, I'd much rather vote glurio first who does the exact same thing but posts once per day and fucks off. | ||
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On March 21 2013 13:32 TranceStorm wrote: Holy hell. Where were you to post that case a few hours ago Wiggles? Its certainly the best case I've seen yet for this lynch -> Ace has done next to nothing this game besides post a few vague suspicions and jump onto the VE lynch. The most damning evidence I've seen yet, as Wiggles points out, is the fact that Ace says "We aren't going to stop scumhunting: that would be dumb.", but does no analysis or anything else during the entire day! Voting for VE certainly cannot have been too taxing on his part, why not help the town out? This is the scummiest shit I've ever seen. I am convinced no one in this game knows how to play town or something. | ||
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On March 21 2013 13:35 TranceStorm wrote: Really? How is Ace defensible? What's wrong with Wiggles' case against him? It had nothing to do with Ace being defensible or Wiggles' case, it's your shameless +1 without adding anything at all. 'HAY GUYS DIS CASE RL GOOD I SHOW U WHY' and then you literally repeat what is in Wriggle's post. Which of you guys was it who found TS scummy again? I can't keep track of anything anymore in this thread. | ||
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On March 21 2013 13:47 TranceStorm wrote: Look. I read through all of the cases, and with all of them there is some doubt as to how true they might be. I cannot see any reason why not to vote for Ace. Everyone else who hasn't voted for him gives some skimpy reason for not doing so. For example, Mocsta argues that Hopeless1der didn't appear to be that scummy. That doesn't matter, if someone appears to be town on D1, but really scummy on D2 that shouldn't mean that you should withhold your vote. This may be the worst reasoning for a vote I have ever heard. First of all, can you name all the people who haven't voted for Ace and their skimpy reasoning? You know what, I'll help you out: me. My reasoning was that Wriggle made the case and I don't trust him after contributing nothing all day and saving it all up to blow his load and fuck with thread sentiment right before deadline. You say if someone appears town but scummy on D2 I shouldn't withhold my vote...well that's precisely what I thought of Wriggle this entire day. Should I vote for him? What's YOUR reason for voting Ace? Not Wriggle's not Mocsta's not mine, not Vivax's, YOURS. Don't tell me why it's dumb other people aren't voting for him, and especially don't give shitty reasons as to why it's dumb. For fuck sakes you YOURSELF had a scumread on Wiggle and you turn it around without a second thought? | ||
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On March 21 2013 14:19 Mocsta wrote: The case provides explanation for Ace behaviour. In doing so, it takes worst-case scenarios. Why cant Ace be like me.. a guy who got bored reading the thread and decided to comment on the live situation? Frankly. i wasnt a fan of Ace play last night.. but i think its pretty extreme to insta-declare that as scummy. Yes, i wanted him to follow through on his "pro-town" comments.. but frankly.. does he actually know many of the players in this game? perhaps he is sussing out the situation still? i dunno.. i jsut think wiggles is taking worst-case option for each point. A townie case should consider both sides of the fence, and come to a well-reasonsed stance. I felt the case reads beautifully, but lacks consideration of a town-Ace... In factnow that i think about it.. wiggles is aware of this, because the "town motivation" is based on the meta component he incorporated which as i said before is one game in the many many games Ace has played. Of course its easy to find one game that supports the claim. ============= In fact.. the addition of the meta case, to strengthen the argument is pretty scummy. I could swing to a wiggles vote based on that action. Lol Mocsta, I don't like Wriggles or anything but even I thought his case was decent. I really think you're overthinking things right now. You have a tendency to do that. I have no clue what the significance of Geript's scumreads are right now but the guy makes a point: we have 1.5 hours left and I am going to bed soon. I don't like the idea of voting for someone who's not going to hang so can we as a town please agree to disagree on some things and figure out wtf we're doing? Can we get a vote count? | ||
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On March 21 2013 14:32 VisceraEyes wrote: WaveOfShadow sir. You have claimed Cop. You are now medic priority #1. As payment for this luxury, you are now required to give your full opinion on the Ace Case by Wiggles. Wat. Why do I have to do that? I'm not voting Wiggle or Ace this time around....at least I don't think. BTW VE I think I'm going to believe your claims. I see a young me in them, railing against world for the silly plays he made. | ||
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But also cry a little inside. | ||
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On March 21 2013 14:37 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm not railing against anything. Why are you unwilling to lynch Ace? On March 21 2013 13:53 WaveofShadow wrote: This may be the worst reasoning for a vote I have ever heard. First of all, can you name all the people who haven't voted for Ace and their skimpy reasoning? You know what, I'll help you out: me. My reasoning was that Wriggle made the case and I don't trust him after contributing nothing all day and saving it all up to blow his load and fuck with thread sentiment right before deadline. You say if someone appears town but scummy on D2 I shouldn't withhold my vote...well that's precisely what I thought of Wriggle this entire day. Should I vote for him? What's YOUR reason for voting Ace? Not Wriggle's not Mocsta's not mine, not Vivax's, YOURS. Don't tell me why it's dumb other people aren't voting for him, and especially don't give shitty reasons as to why it's dumb. For fuck sakes you YOURSELF had a scumread on Wiggle and you turn it around without a second thought? | ||
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I value your opinion sir. + Show Spoiler + I think I may be forced to vote Ace if it comes down to it, my gut's telling me VE was telling the truth about his retarded 3rd party bullshit. I have to kinda sympathize 'cause I know I could fuck something like that up similarly. | ||
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There is so much WTF spread over the low count votes I don't even know where to begin. The only logical choices I see right now are Wiggle/GK/VE/Ace. Ideally I'd like to leave my vote on GK since I trust DPs read on him and am openly sheeping based on my townread of DP, but the GK lynch doesn't appear likely. I'm not sure I like the idea of an Ace lynch or a VE lynch so I'm debating moving my vote back to Wriggle. Kita (townread) parked his vote there but I believe it was before Wriggle came back to make his case...I really wish people stuck around more. It's the same 6-7 people doing all the talking here. Mocsta, same question I asked DP. If we are voting GK now but nothing else changes before deadline, what will you do? | ||
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TPS's post strikes a chord with me much more than Wriggle's does (not to mention confirmed townie doesn't hurt) as I never seem to remember to think of things from a scum perspective, though admittedly that would be hard for me because in games now I haven't rolled scum. What Wriggles did and now TPS makes me wonder about the spammy meta that seems to be present in every mafia game I've played. Were posting in the manner that TPS and Wriggle did the norm at on point in time? Huge, overall well put-together, consolidated cases? TPS can we expect more of this from you (if you survive the night, sorry!)? I know we actually have a shot at getting GK lynched now but damn, TPS. | ||
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I'm going to leave my vote where it is...I support lynches of both GK and Ace right now so if there are any last-minute shenanigans I hope they go to the right places. GL guys and see you all on the flipside. | ||
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On March 21 2013 21:55 kitaman27 wrote: Well that escalated quickly. I suppose I deserve part of the blame for being unable to stay awake until the deadline. Wiggles comes in with a case about how Ace is failing to scumhunt, yet that case itself is Wiggles only real push for a lynch and it comes at a time where he is only doing it for survival. How do things go from "ya, Wiggles is scum" to "ya, I totally trust Wiggles intentions" in a matter of hours. Bleh. At least I should have time to make a stronger case tonight. I kept my vote on GK but if you read my rationale it was the TPS case that put me over the age on saying Ace was probably a good lynch. WARNING: CONSPIRACY THEORY + Show Spoiler + I worry that TPS is 3rd party and not confirmed town. There is no way scum would have known to frame him/change his alignment but 3rd party would be consistent with his staying out of the spotlight for 2 days and coming back just in time to post an absolutely massive case on Ace just like Wiggles did, AND would probably have some sort of anti-check power. I like his case much more than Wiggles,' and it made an Ace lynch much clearer so this is NOT something I am sure of by any means, but keep an eye on him after I die, k guys? | ||
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not age. I swear I have some sort of aphasia or something...I do this way too often and it worries me. | ||
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On March 21 2013 22:55 kitaman27 wrote: How in the world could TPS be 3rd party?! You yourself said that you received his alignment was town from your alleged dt check. Do you or do you not receive alignment with your check? I said it in my post. Its typical for 3rd party to have some sort of ability to make them appear innocent. I'm not assuming this is what occurred; TPS's case was much better than Wiggles' and even though it benefits 3rd party to hunt scum with town, that case required way more effort and insight than I believe is necessary from someone trying to remain discreet. I just wanted to get the idea out there. I checked TPS to be a Fool and I believe it to be true. | ||
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On March 21 2013 23:18 Mocsta wrote: Also now that the cycle is over. Can u pls post full mason log with BH BH did didn't he? | ||
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On March 21 2013 23:43 Mocsta wrote: WoS/zarepath Question. Geript. His filter states that he was a firm advocate of a ve lynch. And he even went out of his way to produce some reasons why. However, if u look at the final vote count. His vote went from from vote leader ve to ace, thus putting ve and ace in a tie breaker. I couldn't see any reference in his filter to suggest he was keen on an ace vote. 1. Do u agree with the above. 2. Both if u have played with geript before. Are u finding his posting to be what u expect of a town geript? Honestly Mocsta, I couldn't be assed to look into Geript right now when Wriggles and more obvious scum are going unpunished. I could vote him, Trancestorm, Kenpachi, glurio, GK, fuck you name it. I'm least sure of GK because I'm only sheeping on that from DP, and Kenpachi is just useless and needs to die. The other three I'm pretty damn sure of now. | ||
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On March 22 2013 00:24 Mocsta wrote: K WoS Thnx for being honest. Funny u ,mention glurio cos before I believe it was u that asked me to stop commenting on him. Either way. G`nite I asked oyu to stop commenting on him because it was dumb to try and introduce ANOTHER new lynch target when there were already 5 flying around. In the post I told you to shut up about him I said he's definitely scummy but we had bigger fish to fry. If you think we can convince people to lynch him for D3 by all means, but there are more threatening scum to lynch I guess? I don't know I've never thought about it this way...if you have a lurky scum and an active scum, which is better to lynch? I would think the active one, right? | ||
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On March 22 2013 02:42 zarepath wrote: DYH, it'd be better if you posted those reads at the end of N2 because if scum has any faith that you'll find something Day 1 and that there's a medic for WoS they'll just kill you before you give the cases I forget who it was who said this, but I may just get RBed; it all depends on what scum are most afraid of. If I were scum it's a matter of whether my role on its own is scary enough to warrant killing me or simply RBing me every night; considering my play thus far I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't scared of me at all and would rather focus their KP elsewhere. It's ultimately going to be up to the medic to make that call as well. | ||
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On March 22 2013 03:19 kitaman27 wrote: Do we even know if the mafia team has a roleblocker? I don't remember anyone claiming it on day one. No we have no idea. We don't even know if you get informed of a RB. Either way it's up to the medic to decide if I'm worth protecting or not. I have my target for tonight chosen already though I'm unsure how to go about letting you guys know who it is in case I die or don't? I'll have to think about it. | ||
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On March 22 2013 04:32 Coagulation wrote: I would love it if I was DT checked so I could bitch slap vivax with the results. Just saying. Well I'm going to have to survive the night/not get RBed for that to happen, won't I? :D | ||
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On March 22 2013 05:14 goodkarma wrote: Why would you try to direct a DT check on yourself? Even if you check out it doesn't mean you're necessarily town. You could have a godfather mechanic to your role as scum. And considering you want to be checked, I'd argue it's likely you're either town or some kind of godfather role. DT check should be reserved for scum suspects that are seriously being considered for being lynched. Further, it's good to check someone who's looking like scum who's historically actually going to be of use to town if he's town. Would Coag be that beneficial to town if he were to be DT checked and determined to likely be town? Not really... Thanks for the advice | ||
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On March 22 2013 10:05 VisceraEyes wrote: I have not admitted to being third party. Just throwing that out there. And to be fair, I'm advocating a vig shot on me over a lynch of me. I would prefer if lynches hit scum. Just sayin. But what if you can't be killed by night shots as per the power that the mirror offered you lolololololol | ||
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Totally not scummy at all. Going to prove how scummy this is at some point later today; either way we have bigger fish to fry than him right now. On March 22 2013 06:02 WaveofShadow wrote: GK/Wiggles/glurio/TS/+1 scumteam I was wrong about GK but I'm right about the others. For now: ##Vote: Mr. Wiggles Oh and Zare whether or not GK protected me didn't matter, I was roleblocked (I think?). Not that it mattered much; I targeted Vivax last night. | ||
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On March 22 2013 22:31 glurio wrote: Wrong about GK, testsubject and me. You've got quite the theme going there. And my single post is probably gonna be more useful than whatever you write this entire cycle if you go on like this. Not testsubject bro, trancestorm. Yeah boy let me tell you, btw your single posts of the day have been pretty useful before now, huh? | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + VE I think I'm going to have to shadow a game of yours at some point; if you're town I think you run into a lot of the same issue I do with my town play. Only difference being you're shit tons more experienced and can compensate I guess. In any case I won't be focused on you until we nail a couple other scum at least. What say you specifically regarding glurio? Have you seen my posts on him throughout the thread? I believe Mocsta also was trying to focus attention towards him during the clusterfuck D2, but I was more focused on trying to get people on board with Wriggles or at the very least consolidating. There are also a lot of other things I want to bring up to the thread, for example: On March 22 2013 08:08 Coagulation wrote: remove wade fell and add wiggles and they are acceptable. I would probably add ryu and take out zerap also. This comes after he calls WF scummy just a little bit earlier but professes he wants to deal with Wiggles/Ace controversy first. Not sure what to make of this. Also curious as to what DP thinks of his meta read on GK not being as strong as he thought. | ||
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As for targeting Vivax - there are other higher priority targets, but I'd rather not risk scum guessing a good framing target, or someone who I thought might have died during the night. I wanted it to be an active enough target (rather than someone like TPS for example) so that learning their role/alignment would help us more during the day. I honestly didn't think they'd pick off Vivax over Scib or DYH or something. Either way, the PM I got (A bunch of flavour text and nothing else) makes me think that me not getting a check had nothing to do with the fact that they shot him; I would have been RBed anyway. What will happen now is if our lynch target (Wriggle) happens to be the scum RB then great, but then I will get shot during the night. I don`t think we`re going to be able to get any more checks out of me. I have to do better at not looking scummy I guess so I won`t have to claim next time.... | ||
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I have no reason to doubt Testsubject's claim of shooting BH, and there was no reason for scum to shoot GK since he was under suspicion and was being overall pretty useless. Can someone help me with this btw? There was some post (I thought it was Coag but apparently i was wrong) where someone listed a whole bunch of scumreads in one line, saying something like BH is town, xxxx is town, VE is a clown.....etc Who was that? | ||
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Yup that's it. I haven't looked into Kenpachi so much because he's basically useless like so many others here. It's just a shame there are only 4 scum left because I could easily see there being 6-7 based on activity and content alone. Town just has no desire to step it up at all and it's going to cost us this game. Like wtf, his contribution is chastising everyone who actually has the balls to participate in the game and then he fucks off again? I definitely understand why Mocsta ragequit the game. His scumreads are GK and then Vivax. Looks real great on him. | ||
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I'll admit I guess I'm only making that assumption based on LX which was 19:5:1 but I feel like any gross changes to the formula would unbalance it pretty heavily. At the very least I guess it's possible to have 6 mafia but then there's no way there'd be a 3rd party on top of that, especially with recruiting power. | ||
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You signed up to play, you know how people are, now live with it. When I have the chance later I'll reinforce my case on glurio but activity is real shit today. What's the deal, is it between CC/Wiggles for now? | ||
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On March 23 2013 06:06 Kenpachi wrote: I think i should organize myself for once. None of these should be surprising, they're pretty agreeable. Town testsubject### Teepeeshooter waveofshadow coagulation Mafia Wiggles DarthPunk zarepath (intuitive) My lynch vote for today is Mr. Wiggles. Why? simple, he feigned usefulness here and there and here some more. I posted about his chainlink of questions and in general, he is playing like mafioso wiggles. Is there anything else for me to say WAVEOFSHADOW? This is a good start imo; I am definitely in favour of a Wiggles lynch today as you know. Let's dive in a little bit though, shall we? I had a strong town read on DP, and I'm null on zare. Why do you feel they are both scum? | ||
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On March 23 2013 08:10 DoYouHas wrote: Yeah... I'm pretty confident that DP is actually town. Unlike Wiggles, DP actually looks better for the BH flip. He has more than a few interactions with BH that seem very genuine. The way he defends himself is solid, the way he pursued his WoS suspicion but then is ready to drop it after WoS's claim. The way he interacted with Scib and went after layabout. Everything reads pretty townie. @Kenpachi - What are your reasons for having DP as one of your top scum reads? Yup still waiting on that. | ||
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On March 23 2013 18:10 geript wrote: Here's my problem with WoS: where did the roleblock go night 1? Nobody claimed one. I don't think VE would be alive if he had been roleblocked. That leaves 4 options a scum JOAT, a buried roleblock on Keirethi, an unclaimed roleblock on the 3P or WoS is lying. 1. A scum JOAT seems exceptionally unlikely to me as using the role for extra KP makes the most sense to me. 2. Burying a roleblock on Keiethi makes no sense to me as, if VE is blue, VE is likelier to better use his role having played D1 instead of playing catchup. 3. An unclaimed Roleblock on 3P seems insane to me. It would explain only 2 NK N1. However, if we believe Test is a Vig and shot BH, then Vivax likely shot GK and 3P lacks KP which would mean that there's no reason to not claim the roleblock. Ther's an outside shot that Twst is 3P which explains the vig claim and the BH push against him, but that would be a total mindfuck and doesn't seem consistent with his play. 4. WoS is lying and is scum. A scum role checker would also help explain the Vivax hit (if you assume that we're off base on CC/wiggles). I'm traveling until late today and won't likely be able to post or read for 12 hours. Here's my problem with you: that's dumb and you didn't consider the fact that maybe they didn't RB D1 for whatever reason. I also said I wasn't 100% sure it was a RB as all I got was a bunch of confusing flavour text which basically amounted to me not getting back my night check. It might have been because Vivax died, it might not have been. You know it's funny though, I don't even mind this as a point of discussion since the thread is dead today now that we have consolidation since like the beginning of the day. I don't quite understand why it has to be this way and we can't continue to hunt other scum though. I believe I promised a post on Glurio but I have to get back to bed as it's almost 6 am and the only reason I am up is because screaming baby. In any case geript you're welcome to continue this line of thinking so long as you don't derail today's lynch target. If we hit their roleblocker in Wiggles I'll be dead tomorrow night anyway. | ||
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On March 23 2013 18:10 geript wrote: Here's my problem with WoS: where did the roleblock go night 1? Nobody claimed one. I don't think VE would be alive if he had been roleblocked. That leaves 4 options a scum JOAT, a buried roleblock on Keirethi, an unclaimed roleblock on the 3P or WoS is lying. 1. A scum JOAT seems exceptionally unlikely to me as using the role for extra KP makes the most sense to me. 2. Burying a roleblock on Keiethi makes no sense to me as, if VE is blue, VE is likelier to better use his role having played D1 instead of playing catchup. 3. An unclaimed Roleblock on 3P seems insane to me. It would explain only 2 NK N1. However, if we believe Test is a Vig and shot BH, then Vivax likely shot GK and 3P lacks KP which would mean that there's no reason to not claim the roleblock. Ther's an outside shot that Twst is 3P which explains the vig claim and the BH push against him, but that would be a total mindfuck and doesn't seem consistent with his play. 4. WoS is lying and is scum. A scum role checker would also help explain the Vivax hit (if you assume that we're off base on CC/wiggles). I'm traveling until late today and won't likely be able to post or read for 12 hours. Lol and I just realized, wtf is this? How exactly would me being a rolechecked explain the Vivax death? First of all, I admitted to you that I checked him and he died. If I were scum what would be the point? Second of all, if I were scum I certainly couldn't have checked him, said 'Oh hey look, he's the Sword!' and killed him in the same night. If you're insinuating he was my D1 check and I lied, then you must be assuming TPS is lying too, because he confirmed the role of my check on him before even I did. Finally, you say 'that would help explain the Vivax hit,' uh...why does that help explain it exactly? Mafia picked a fairly vocal and town-friendly target for NK; I don't exactly see what's so surprising or hard to explain about that. Your other three points are just useless speculation, though I don't see what's wrong with the first one actually. It's unlikely since it probably makes more sense to confuse the town with an extra NK (make us think it's 3P or whatever) than to simply RB but again, that's assuming scum doesn't just have a RB that didn't use their power N1 which to be is the most likely scenario. AAAAANYWAY, death to Wiggles. | ||
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On March 24 2013 02:44 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Just what do you think you're doing, Town? Town, I really think I'm entitled to an answer to that question. I know everything hasn't been quite right with me, but I can assure you now, very confidently, that it's going to be all right again. I feel much better now. I really do. Look, Town, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill and think things over. I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission. And I want to help you. Consolidated reads: Not Mafia Reads (Probably wrong about a couple): ThePeaShooter: I read this guy as town earlier, and I still do. Nothing he has done has caused me to need to change my read since then. There's also supposedly a DT check on the guy, which is ok. layabout: I had initially read layabout as mostly asking questions and not really doing too much, so I was leaning scum on him. I looked into a couple of his past games though, and this is how he typically seems to play. His play since about halfway through Day 2 though has improved and made me think he's much more likely to be town. Coagulation: I read him as town. His play to me suggests that he's invested in what's best for town, and is trying to help. Therefore, he reads as being likely to be town to me. Ryu Suzaku: His posts seem very organic to me, and he's been posting his thoughts in the thread. That gets me to lean towards him not being scum. He hasn't had a great presence in thread though, so you might need to pressure him or interact with him more in thread to get a better read for late game. Kenpachi: I find Kenpachi hard to read normally. This game though, it feels like he's been sharing his reads pretty openly, and he cares what happens to town. He doesn't have much presence or weight behind him though, so he's been pretty ineffectual. I'm leaning not scum on him right now, but like I said, he's hard to read, so take it with a grain of salt. testsubject: He claimed the hit on BH. There hasn't been a counter claim, and the KP doesn't work out any way that would give scum a possible claim or reason to claim. That leads me to believe his claim is truthful, and therefore he's town for now. VE: Claimed that he took a hit night 1. His play hasn't made him look clearly town though, and I'm quite unsure of what his alignment is based on only behaviour. He had a big fight with Wade though, who flipped scum, so I think that's a point in his favour. I'd leave him out of potential mafia suspects for now, but I don't think he's necessarily someone town wants around endgame unless he really steps up his play so that it's obvious he's town. Otherwise he's too hard to read. WaveofShadow: He claimed detective, and supposedly got a read on TPS night 1, and nothing night 2. My behaviour read wasn't towards town before the claim though. Mechanics suggest he's town based on the claim, and Ace read him as town too. Look into him again if he's alive end game though. Note: If there actually are any third parties in the game or the game goes very late, don't forget to look into the people who are read as town mostly because of roleclaims. Roleclaims aren't irrefutable, and don't make someone confirmed. Pool of harder to read people (scum in here): glurio, zarepath, Trancestorm, cosmicomics, DoYouHas, Darthpunk, geript Trancestorm: He asked for a replacement and said he's not playing anymore. I wouldn't spend too much effort on him until he gets replaced. Otherwise, he's gonna be modkilled. For what it's worth, he seems like he's just a bit of a sheep more than scum. Not too sure though. Cosmicomics: Looking at him again, I'm reading him somewhat as scum. My first initial read was new town, but reading a little more closely, it looks more scum motivated. He tunnels VE, which gives him something of an excuse for making "helpful" looking posts. Then, he makes a case on Good Karma based on only his reaction to the Ace flip, which would set him up nicely for later days. He also throws a vote on me without any real justification today. That leads me to think he's more likely to be scum than town. Zarepath: I'm leaning more on the scum side for him right now. He posts a lot of fluff, a lot of summarizing or what's happening in the thread, not really pushing his cases too hard. He's recently been saying we need to do a lot of analysis without posting any of his own, really. He's been tunneling Cosmicomics for a while, and is voting him today. I don't find that contradictory to my read, because firstly, Cosmicomics has not once responded to Zarepath's case that I can find. That seems really weird to me, because if Zarepath was town, I don't think Cosmicomics would just sit around while a townie tunneled him. If it's his team mate, though, it makes more sense, and it makes sense he's voting him today, because then he won't be on the townie wagon of the day. Glurio: This guy just seems to be following his own tune. His reads are meandering and he seems to just be doing his own thing. I read this as town, because he's not very directed, and has been mostly left alone by others. His posts show an easy to follow train of thought that also gets me to lean towards town on him. Darthpunk: I lean towards scum on him. I find it hard to go back through his posts, because there's way too many to get a coherent picture. His reaction to the Ace lynch gets me to think he's scum though. He says he doesn't want to lynch Ace, but does it anyways, making it so that a last minute vote on VE is less likely to happen. He says he likes the Ace lynch better than the VE lynch. Then, he shifts blame onto VE and insinuates he's scum based on how he acted leading up to the lynch. However, that was exactly the same as how VE had acted when DP voted. So, this looks pretty scummy to me. You make a vote to ensure the Ace lynch, and say you like it better than a VE lynch, then you make a post calling out VE because he tunneled Ace, but only after Ace flipped town, and after you said you didn't like the VE lynch. DoYouHas: I lean towards town on him. His posts show a decent town mindset. His shifts in reads seem organic, and not like they're being motivated as much by what's happening in the thread. This gets me to lean towards town on him. Geript: I'm sort of null on him. He has a decent amount of setup speculation and stuff in his posts that reads as null. He seems like he's interacting decently with the thread. For someone with a lot of posts though, I haven't really noticed him at all this game, so that puts me off a bit. Someone to look more closely at in the future or pressure. I'll admit I haven't read that closely into DoYouHas, Geript and DP, because they've had low thread presence so I haven't noticed them that much while just reading the thread normally, and they have a ton of posts so that makes it hard to go back and read through them. So, these three reads are based more on skims of their filters and what stuck out to me. The DP things sticks out quite badly as scummy though, so I feel it would be enough to use for additional pressure regardless of what else he's done. I think it's a pretty big slip. People to really watch out for: Kitaman: Kita's play has actually been pretty passive. He's made cases, but has never really pushed them that much. Day 1, he was going after GoodKarma, couldn't get traction, and just sort of went, "Oh well, I'll vote for GreY then I guess", with only a line of explanation that doesn't even say he's scummy. The same thing happened on Day 2, where he made a case on WaveofShadow, but it was deflected by him claiming DT. So, he just votes for me, but doesn't really make too big of a push and only had a couple posts where he doesn't even strongly call me scum: He uses very neutral language, saying he'd support the lynch, and that he'd be willing to vote if there's enough votes. He says he didn't like one thing I did, and then finally votes me not because he says he thinks I'm scum, but because I'm not around. For someone he wants to kill, and who he voted for, he does a good job of not really explaining his read or of ever calling me scum. He did the same thing with the GreYMisT vote. He doesn't push his reads strongly, he doesn't call the people he switches to later scum, and he just votes on whatever the wagon is at the end of the day His passive play combined with the lack of thread interaction and seeming apathy towards the lynch leads me to believe he doesn't have town's best interests in mind, and is scum. Town should watch out for him, because his posts are nicely structured and he makes nice "cases" on people that he doesn't end up pushing. So, there will probably be people who'd oppose killing him based on the form of his posts rather than the content. I agree that I need to die. I am a liability in late game because I've been playing badly and my scum reads have been shit so far. I need to get shot though, not lynched, because a lynch on me is wasted as I have no probability of flipping scum. I thought someone might shoot me Night 2, but no one did. I don't like the way the Day has gone so far, because everyone is sitting on their hands and not talking because they think I'm scum. I find that pretty dumb, because you're basically giving mafia a free round of kills. If you're going to lynch me, leave your vote on me, but at least talk about who else you think is scum, because I am going to flip green. If you don't talk, you're completely wasting your time. I'm going to vote Cosmicomics because he is the only alternative wagon to me, and I read him as more likely to be scum than town. If I end up getting lynched, I apologize for my poor reads, and want to say, good luck, and have fun. Sorry Wiggles. A giant list post of your reads is not going to be enough to distract us this time. As far as you flipping green, if you do I think town should honestly just concede this game or something because there's been a lot of shit play to go around and people apologizing for it isn't going to cut it. I have to go through the rest of this page but skimming through I see: TS has left - great. No flip, of course so now we have so many fucking unknowns we'll never be able to determine how many scum are left properly...ugh. I'm going to assume he was scum as he was one of my reads along with glurio and Wiggles; even if Wiggles doesn't flip red (NO FUCKING WAY) then that means night KP for scum will be reduced. (Math: assuming 5 scum - we now have 4 and original scum KP was X/2 rounded down). Also speaking of glurio I have to read over your case, kita because it seems I'm not going to get to a case on him today like I had wanted but I fully support a lynch on him D4. | ||
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Kita that final post from Wriggles just SCREAMS scum at me; I like your analysis of what he's doing with that post. I'd also like to add that calling you the only person to watch out for seems like he's trying to induce WIFOM---you're probably one of my strongest townreads atm and your thinking seems to coincide with mine so I can't really see where that's going to get him, at least in my opinion. Haha at one point he even states that you make up nicely structured cases without pushing his reads, which is EXACTLY what he did D2, while he is apparently ignoring your case on me which you DID push. If he wasn't just giving up as scum he'd actually try to help the town out by making a mislynch worth something at least instead of posting that drivel. I think when I do get to post my case on glurio it will actually complement yours rather than just reinforce points you've already made. Having played a couple games with him I'm fairly sure I have a handle on his play---I correctly read him as town in LX when basically nobody else did. | ||
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Same thing with half your points about the Ace case. The first half of the cycle, I was waiting for Ace to post. How could I make a case based on Ace not following through with his promises and trying to get the town away from scumhunting earlier in the cycle, when he had just replaced in that night? That would be idiotic, so how's it part of your case? Surely you could have made other contribution in the time you spent 'waiting' on your one scumread.You throw some suspicion around, jump on my bandwagon and then disappear. Great help. But wait a minute, why the fuck were you waiting to post about Ace for the half the cycle IF HE HADN'T EVEN POSTED WHAT YOU CALLED HIM OUT FOR BEING SCUMMY FOR? Ace didn't post the thing about VE until almost 3 quarters of the way through the cycle. You were posting useless shit about other people long before he showed up and didn't mention Ace even once. Are you admitting to us here that you were waiting for a townie to post something that could be viewed as scummy so you could make a giant case on it? 'Cause it sure fuckin' looks like it here. | ||
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Like "I've seen him play town and this isn't his town play let's vote him?" In any case nothing Wiggles has said thus far has made me want to change my mind on this. If people are willing to listen to why glurio is scum I'll see if I can get to my case tonight. | ||
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In the mislynching of GreyMist. | ||
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I will say this much, he hasn't contributed a great deal today, but then again nobody really has. DP you said you'd be digging through filters when you returned. Got anything yet? I think most of the town is really keen to just see Wriggles go down red. There's been a lot of talk against cc as well but I'm just not seeing it as strongly as most people.... I can't see my D4 lynch candidate being anyone but glurio. | ||
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On March 25 2013 10:48 geript wrote: @Kenpachi What's your stance on WoS? Do you believe the claim? I'm pretty sure almost everyone believes my claim right now but you. If you're really town Geript, just think back to the games we've played together and ask yourself what makes the most sense based on my play this game and my past play. I'm going to have a look into cosmiccomics right now and try and write up that case on glurio as well, though I must admit my confidence has been shaken since Wiggles flipped town. I don't feel good about our chances this game at all. Collectively we as a town have been playing like absolute balls, and most of the town flips thus far are partly to blame for it as well. If we lose 3 more townies tonight I'm pretty sure we're fucked. | ||
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On March 25 2013 12:16 cosmicomics wrote: You mean 2? Or do you have a different interpretation of last nights KP? No I mean if we lose 3 townies. 2 KP is given considering mafia but I still worry about 3rd party presence. I think at this point if we lose only 2 tonight then 3rd arty probably doesn't KP despite whatever recruitment power they might have; withholding KP as 3rd party doesn't make sense this far in. In any case all of that is just speculation and isn't important right now considering we can't even hunt scum. Cosmic you think kita is scum and I think he's town. Care to elaborate? I'm honestly not so certain of my reads anymore considering how the game has gone thus far. Really wish I could actually fucking use my night action. | ||
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Cosmic (bullet point style) - Has initial town-read on GK but eventually flips his stance on him as the later days progress. If he was scum he could have easily kept his town stance to appear innocent rather than attempt to apologize it alter, drawing more attention to himself. A little WIFOM-y but whatever. -Overall hasn't done a great deal that has seemed obviously scum-motivated, but there has been a lot of 'I'm going to do this' from him which he never does: (look into TPS, look into me, address all the cases made against him---HE HAS NOT DONE THIS AT ALL) I don't have a strong read on him either way - as of right now he looks null to me. I'm going to do a massive re-read of the thread and assuming I live through the night I will posting stronger reads tomorrow.I am aware I've promised this for a while but I haven't had much time until recently. I'm going to be looking into zare again as I've forgotten about him for a while and something cosmic said made me think about BH's mason targets.... | ||
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DP your mention of the loss of confidence forcing a re-read is exactly where I'm at right now. I'm not sure the posts by glurio and zare mean anything but since I'll be looking into the both of them for tomorrow I'll keep it in mind. | ||
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As I promised I will be re-reading and looking into everyone; specifically zare and glurio today. | ||
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-Vote counts are completely inconclusive. Confirmed townies voting for other confirmed townies on wagons started by confirmed townies. I can't see any patterns whatsoever even based on vote timings so scum are doing a kickass job of blending in. -Trying to go into this with a fresh read has given me null on both glurio and zarepath. Meta analysis is inconclusive and reads based on activity this game are completely useless since many of our mislynches have been partially based on inactivity. Those people who have been mislynched by us for the most part just don't care, and we've gotten ourselves into a horrible rut because of it. I'm going to continue my read-through and I refuse to give up until I have something concrete to present. | ||
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On March 26 2013 01:13 TestSubject893 wrote: VE is literally the worst person you could have checked. This is all too much to let slide. You've played exactly like a scum would if they fake claimed, so if you're town you've only got yourself to blame for us mislynching today. ##Vote: WaveofShadow We're killing cosicomics tomorrow if we have it my way. As an aside, I think that The Mirror must be mafia aligned since they clearly didn't fear that VE was perma-bulletproof like the logs implied. Yeah, we won't be lynching me today. You say VE is the worst target yet it hasn't mattered since N1 because I've been perma-roleblocked. Why would I bother admitting to you my target if I was scum and inviting these kinds of suspicions towards me? I didn't have to give you my targets either night, I could have just said I was roleblocked and avoided any sort of attention. (Hint: I'm trying to give you guys INFORMATION, however useful or not it may be.) Oh yeah and not to mention the fact that DrH literally read the post you quoted and remembered that he forgot to send me a night/roleblock PM. Totally lying. Anyway, back to my reading failure. | ||
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On March 26 2013 01:19 zarepath wrote: Yeah, why did you want to get a read on VE? What was your reasoning for that, WoS? Oh, why? Because I was sick of him constantly being at the back of everyone's minds as to whether to start voting for him during the day or not; I was hoping to clear it up one way or the other so we could focus elsewhere and be sure of him. My other target would have been Coag but that would have been a failure as well as you can see. I've already explained my rationale as to night targets; I'm trying to pick people who I view as being out of the spotlight for possible framing/targeting but apparently I've been fairly wrong thus far. Going to have to change my targeting methods, but as I've said it probably won't matter because if we by some miracle manage to hit the scum RB today then I'm dead at night. My worst fear (again, I've stated all of this before, just look into my filter) is that my N1 rolecheck went into some sort of 3rd party/mafia rolecheck immunity in TPS (which would explain his complete lack of presence all game aside from one case that helped to mislynch someone, AND the fact that mafia refuse to NK a confirmed townie). This would essentially make my role do more harm than good all frigging game which would make me incredibly depressed. Believe what you want to believe at this point; I've laid out enough evidence to show you guys that I'm town and I am certainly not going to spend another day defending myself when I haven't contributed anything useful to the game thus far due to my own failures. If you do decide to change your mind and lynch me zare, then go ahead, but then I wouldn't understand what the point of your massive post on layabout was if it's this easy to misdirect you. TestSubject trying to blame the mislynch on me is all well and good; it's just as easy to blame every mislynch we've had so far on the victims, but in the end it's the entire town's fault for the atmosphere we've had so far, including said victims. I'm going to continue my reading throughout the day, but let it be known I will not be defending myself any further, only attempting to contribute to scum-reads. | ||
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I didn't suggest he was blue; I was confused as to the result of my night check because it gave me back a green result and a name when I was only expecting the name. Then I was wondering if for whatever reasoning it only gave me alignment; something like giving a 'town-aligned' result to a check on a blue role but then I realized that wouldn't make sense given the description of my role. It's this fact that makes me worry about TPS if only because I could see 'The Fool' being returned as a result to a Godfather-type (or 3P) check. The only reasons I can see for TPS playing the way he has thus far are: a) he has been outed as confirmed townie so he doesn't give a shit anymore - I don't believe this is true because his play hasn't exactly changed since he was outed; hell he even posted that massive case on Ace after he was outed. b) He DOES have some sort of check-immunity c) Like much of the rest of town this game, he never gave a shit to begin with. All of these options suck but due to KISS, I'm forced to believe a/c because in every game I've played so far I haven't seen anything too crazy yet and all of my conspiracy theories thus far have been wrong. I'm still treating him as confirmed town and moving on to Ryu. | ||
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I have a town read on him. I can't see scum pushing his reads as far as he has (DP/VE). The only theoretical reason I could see for Ryu so aggressively pushing VE (which, as you'll remember Ace did as well and was town) from a scum perspective would be if scum actually was worried about some sort 3rd-party recruiter having gotten to him. Again, KISS forces me to believe this is not the case (which doesn't explain the presence of The Mirror but whatever) so I am inclined to believe Ryu was not afraid of being seen as one of the main proponents of a lynch on VE, especially since BH was already pushing him so hard. Ryu if you're around I'd like to hear your thoughts on DP. Has anything changed in your read since yesterday? Also mebbe thoughts on the recent cases on me/cc/layabout? | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + I wanted to assume Trancestorm was scum since we didn't get a flip on his modkill but the fact that there's still 2 KP at night probably means he wasn't. Either way, if we eliminate a scum today then scum KP goes down to 1. It definitely is not LYLO yet: Assuming a 3rd party (just for shits): 8-4-1 If we don't lynch today it becomes 5-4-1 after night kills. We can technically come back from that, but next day will be LYLO if we mislynch I believe. Is that math right? (Also if there is no 3rd party I think we're in better shape.) | ||
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I'm not sure if I'm going to be around enough to finish my re-read before later but as it stands right now I'm still going with kita and will be voting cc in case I'm not back in enough time to properly address reason to a vote. Aside from zare's points against layabout kita's case makes the most sense, as have most of his cases during the game. I glanced over the past few pages quickly and I can say this much: Zare and geript you are putting way too much thought into things that are probably a lot more obvious then you're making them seem. Vote: Cosmiccomics | ||
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I'm actually pretty sure I did say it at some point this game, but I don't have time to read through my own filter right now. I just found out I WILL be back with enough time to post (hopefully quite a bit, but not sure yet) before flip. Going to keep my vote on cc, but I have an updated scumread on someone else that will hopefully be worth looking into for next day. | ||
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WHOA. Alright so coming back to this it's clear that me diving into a new developing scumread will have to wait because it's just going to derail discussion. For now until we figure out what's up, Unvote: Cosmicomics Alright were there any outstanding questions people had for me just in case I'm getting in the way of a clear lynch target? Oh and I have a really hard time believing kita is scum, but I'll look into it. | ||
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I find the claim fairly believable actually since I don't see scum getting two mason roles while we only get one. Layabout does your role have a name as well? And as far as a kita lynch goes, it doesn't feel good to me at all...I gotta look into this. | ||
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Can you confirm that you die if cosmic does, because that's not what your last post makes it seem like. Reading through kita's filter I've noticed that aside from myself, glurio and the recent business with cosmic, every single case that kita has made has been against townies, and very early on as well. Now considering how misdirected we have all been this game I'm not sure if that means anything, especially since I have sheeped onto all of the mislynches eventually as well (except Wriggles, I claim partial responsibility for that as I wanted him dead for ages), but I wasn't the one creating the cases.... There's still time. This is going to be a really hard one for me because I have had a huge townread on kita ever since his case on me, and I've had a townread on DP for much of the game as well. Also interesting you've mentioned BH's effect on the game, DP, because I don't think we're done looking into that..... | ||
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Maybe TPS as well since he signed up for this game for some reason. | ||
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I'm so sorry I checked him guys, I wish we had mislynched him instead of someone actually useful. | ||
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On March 27 2013 13:44 layabout wrote: TPS uses his greencheck to help mafia win. TPS is probaly the ___father. This is scummy as hell layabout. I've been saying shit like this all game but at the same time saying I still have to assume he's green for now. You bring this up right as all the chaos is going down regarding your 3rd party wincons and late-day lynch targeting? The only reason I could think to bring up another possible lynch target right now is to misdirect. This does make it seem like you're trying to cause chaos. Thank you for answering my questions though. | ||
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On March 27 2013 13:51 RyuSuzaku wrote: false. At any point where town can win, the only time it doesn't matter who you side with is when you've already lost, aka kingmaker. In all other situations it's optimal to lynch CONFIRMED NONTOWN. You are not this stupid, and if you truly are then in postgame I will make sure everyone knows how much of a noob you are. Sorry dude, you're wrong this time. Mafia absolutely needs to die today BECAUSE THEY LOSE A KP. Now how exactly will you be proving that DP is a noob? | ||
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TPS do you plan on revealing yourself at any point during the game or postgame? Unrelated really because I already asked you this in an earlier post, but this 'spammy playstyle' is all I've known and I've never heard anyone else complain about it before now. I see where it creates problems especially for people who can't be available a lot, but there have been quite a few players who haven't done much this game and written just a few long posts/cases per day and still been somewhat effective (ie You/Wriggles getting Ace lynched. 'Effective being you accomplished that goal, to what ends in your case we don't know for sure of course). I just don't see how it's possible in a huge game like this to post less and still be effectively arguing a case, especially when the action is extremely heavy like right now. Maybe you're just referring to spam-posting when there's nothing else going on? In which I'd say I'm not sure that even really effects anything since those posts are mostly spam and can be skipped in a filter...but I digress. TPS can you give us a little more to go on before you disappear? Any other scumreads and why? | ||
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I've literally posted this like 3 times and people like you and Geript constantly seem to be ignoring it. Use your brain. | ||
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# of mafia = sqrt(# of players) Assuming we have 3rd party reducing town numbers, a 6th mafia member would severely tip the balance in mafia favour. | ||
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We just need a strong enough likelihood of hitting said mafia, which I believe as a town we are working on. | ||
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Ryu, question. If you believe cosmic and layabout are scum, and you seem to believe DP is as well, do you really think that 2/4 of the remaining scum would all be the first to jump on a wagon against kita? The other interesting thing to note about that is cosmic and layabout are not coalescing their votes onto the same target; they pick out kita and DP, which leads me to believe they are attempting to hedge their bets/protect someone. | ||
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On March 27 2013 14:38 ThePeashooter wrote: One last thing before I go to bed. I would imagine the mafia are a much larger threat than the third party right now. I would keep that in mind with those saying we need to lynch the third party. To the mafia that's just one person closer to their objective of outnumbering the town, this is even more true if one death means multiple third party people die. I feel like I had another thing but my mind is drawing blanks, so I'm off to bed. I agree with this, but if you believe this and you haven't changed your vote it means you believe cc and layabout are lying and are scum rather than 3rd party? I'm not sure this makes sense...? | ||
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I think the most we're going to learn from this is from those who think cc is mafia rather than 3rd party, namely kita. I find it hard to believe that they are lying about the third party issue because that means cc essentially killed layabout if he flips red OR black, (especially since layabout can't seem to get his story straight as to what the role/recruitment means) and I can't see a reason for cc outing another member of his scumteam for essentially no reason. | ||
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In this case it makes most sense just to get 3rd party lynched since I don't want to risk mislynching kita since I still have a townread on him. Vote: Cosmicomics | ||
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We are now at 8:4, assuming 5 mafia at game start. Whether or not layabout was town or mafia at the time of conversion doesn't matter in terms of a count since there will be 4 mafia now either way (it's possible there were 3 before we killed cc). Ugh I've tried to work out the math but it's late and I'm an idiot or something. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think we're at LYLO tomorrow? | ||
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2 KP means they either have 3 scum left and it's rounded up or 4 scum and it's rounded either up or down. If they still have 2 KP after tomorrow night (Night 5---if we don't lose) that means they had 4 scum and it was rounded up and we're at LYLO again the next day (D6). If it's either of the other two possible scenarios we have more time. | ||
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On March 28 2013 08:37 kitaman27 wrote: I'm pretty sure cosmic wasn't lying when he said he could swing things either way. He thought I was mafia and tried to get me to cooperate with him to achieve a mafia/third party victory. Anyone notice how he never mentioned a second recruit besides layabout? Layabout was masoned day one, VE was masoned day two and rejected, mystery player X was masoned day three and likely accepted because he didn't claim the mason in the thread and I was masoned day four. It's likely either going to be 7v3 or 6v4 after night kills depending on if a modkill was a flip and assuming the mafia team still has two kp. Imagine if we had mislynched last cycle. Town would have had 5-6 players remaining. With layabout + cosmic + player X and 3-4 mafia players, depending on the modkills and if layabout or player X was originally scum, the third party and mafia team would control the lynch. Last cycle would have been GG for us if we didn't lynch cosmic. Yup, I agree and I do not regret it; but we can't afford any more mistakes the rest of the game. Tonight hasn't been particularly active at all and I'm not sure where to go from here in terms of lynch targets for tomorrow. Thoughts, kita? Especially since you thought cc/layabout were lying about being 3rd party. | ||
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Kita as for your above post, the issue for me essentially was that we could have afforded to leave cc alive for a little bit assuming we didn't mislynch and were absolutely certain to hit mafia. Of course they wouldn't have sided with town in the end, but at least it was possible to make him work for us given the right conditions. Since we didn't have any mafia to lynch though ultimately killing cc was the right decision but your premise for killing him was based on the fact that he was mafia, which he wasn't. Your cause to lynch cc and the outcome makes a lot of sense from a scum perspective as well, you see. Something about assuming they were lying just doesn't sit right with me. Layabout? Thoughts now that you're not 3rd party anymore? Christ it would be nice to hear from just about ANYBODY at this point. I'm currently preparing some thoughts of mine in case I'm killed tonight, though considering the way the last few nights have gone, I'll just get RBed since scum either think I'm useless or that they might still be able to get a mislynch onto me tomorrow. | ||
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There are a lot of people who have not interacted with other people in the thread whatsoever either, just because BH-kita is one example does not make him scum. I don't see you having interacted with DYH at all despite you calling him scum. You also haven't interacted with Kenpachi. What does that mean? | ||
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If I go down tonight, look into Zarepath. I found him fairly scummy early on in the game due to meta reasons which I will admit were very weak and rightly so. Upon reviewing his filter however a few things stood out to me: 1) Interaction between BH and Zarepath On March 19 2013 22:03 zarepath wrote: Since VE isn't really high priority today we can just wait a day and see if mafia kill two people or not and deal with that when we get there. I am still going through filters for a full list of reads. At first I consider BH's masoning of me to be really scummy but after reading the other convos he seems legit, so I'll be looking elsewhere. On March 17 2013 11:35 Wade Fell wrote: quoted for filter. wow it's a good thing i'm not a real smurf There are a LOT more soft defense posts where these came from. At one point BH goes so far as to call him a little scummy and says he's going to 'give him another chance.' Remember how BH told us he chose his targets as being townreads he wanted to look more into? Well he chose one of those 'townreads' AFTER he was outed by VE---Zarepath. I imagine that since he knew VE and GK were town and his pseudo-fake claim would look good if he could prove that he was telling the truth, he could kill two birds with one stone and start a mason log with Zare who was under suspicion at the time for D1 and D2, thus earning him towncred by association. Looking through the mason logs themselves, there was much talk at the time as to whether any of the logs were faked between BH/VE or BH/GK but no one mentioned the logs between Zare/BH at all. On March 21 2013 13:00 Wade Fell wrote: I'm just gonna leave this here so that zZzarepath gets off his ass + Show Spoiler + BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted 03-19-2013 03:16 AM ET (US) Edit Delete I'll keep it short and simple: this QT lasts until the end of the day. I think you're town, but there is a strong current of lynch against you. If you die, it happens, but the most important thing is to use your time alive as best you can. I won't be posting the logs of this QT except with your permission, or to save one of us from a lynch. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18055501 I like how you're thinking here- I like how you think in general, fearlessly and townie. I've updated my case against TPS, and I'd like to know who your top scumreads are, if TPS is among them and whether you'd be interested in collaborating with me to get him lynched. If we both share our though processes with each other, we can get better reads on each other. Do not claim your role to me. 2 BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted 03-19-2013 03:31 AM ET (US) Edit Delete I'm heading to bed and will be back in thread in ~9-10 hours. 3 zarepathPerson was signed in when posted 03-19-2013 09:06 AM ET (US) Honestly, you were one of my scum reads until I read all this Messenger stuff, and after reading this QT and before reading the other ones, I thought this was highly suspect -- if you want help lynching your top scum read, why do you pick the townie with the least amount of credibility? Right now I'm going through all the filters to group my reads and present them to the thread, to hopefully get myself some more town cred. Hopefully I'll see something about TPS that makes me agree with you and we can work it out. I'll tell you my reads before I post them up there if you want. 4 zarepathPerson was signed in when posted 03-19-2013 10:44 AM ET (US) Yeah, I'm just not seeing TPS as scum. He's too assertive and active. There are plenty of other people who look way more suspect, like TestSubject, layabout, Mr. Wiggles, and Trance. 5 zarepathPerson was signed in when posted 03-19-2013 12:49 PM ET (US) Are you following the thread at all? They're pulling a quote from your logs that makes it look like the first line wasn't written in the Messenger QT. How did that happen? 6 BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted 03-19-2013 05:00 PM ET (US) Edit Delete DrH was being a slow piece of crap and not setting up the QT between me and GK very quickly. He PMed me and told me to set it up myself and send him the link. I did so, but I he didn't reply (and neither did Oats) and GK didn't post in the thread, so I wrote up a post and stepped out. Later, DrH PMed the link to GK and we used the QT I set up. 7 BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted 03-19-2013 05:06 PM ET (US) Edit Delete Also zare you don't seem to get the idea behind this QT. I'm probably one of the best scumhunters on TL. Although if I agree on reads I would appreciate your help, the purpose of this QT is to see what your thought process is like, and to get better insight into what you think. You are not my top town-read, you are just a townread I have that a lot of people think are scum. Since I'm already outed to the thread, it makes the most sense to mason you and try to learn more about your thought process. 8 zarepathPerson was signed in when posted 03-19-2013 07:17 PM ET (US) Yeah, no problem. I'm down with talking more except you were busy at the same time that I was free, so we couldn't really discuss things. I'm open to talk more later but nwo I have to go do some stuff. Ask me any private Q's you want in the meantime if you want. 9 BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted 03-19-2013 09:34 PM ET (US) Edit Delete On March 20 2013 10:33 Coagulation wrote: the butt hurt in this thread is getting thick. I can hardly walk in it. assholes and elbows deep in butt hurt rofl 10 BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted 03-19-2013 09:36 PM ET (US) Edit Delete so that slip from TPS about coag's alignment imo seals it for me. his last post or so has been more reasonable, but there's no good explanation for that slip other than "TPS is scum and knows coag is town". I'll be continuing to push him. I'm pretty sure I can convince people at this point 11 zarepathPerson was signed in when posted 03-19-2013 10:16 PM ET (US) Honestly, I think even if you're onto something, nobody will listen to you because it looks like you are tunneling him and you've been fairly abrasive with VE and TPS. I think it would go a long way if you were to list some other people you also thought to be scum, and mentioned why, and then explained why your scum read on TPS is still the best read. 12 zarepathPerson was signed in when posted 03-19-2013 10:17 PM ET (US) I like the case on WoS a lot right now. His slip is pretty similar to TPS's slip, actually. I wonder if there's something there. 13 BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted 03-20-2013 12:52 PM ET (US) Edit Delete looks like TPS has claimed cop with a blue check on WoS, which means we aren't lynching either of them today. VE seems to have claimed 3p so it's highly clear what we shoudl be doing here. 14 BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted 03-20-2013 12:56 PM ET (US) Edit Delete er, vice-versa: WoS has claimed cop with a blue check on TPS so no need to lynch WoS, he'll be shot tonight anyways. TPS probably also. It's only a problem if they live for a few days. 15 zarepathPerson was signed in when posted 03-20-2013 01:08 PM ET (US) Yeah. So this third party stuff seems really sloppy on VE's end - I mean, why post the logs revealing that you are a traitor? It seems pretty stupid to me. I'm honestly not going to spend much more time worrying about VE until the night actions go crazy tonight. Scum feel no pressure if we just agree to lynch VE. 16 BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted 03-20-2013 01:34 PM ET (US) Edit Delete The best solution imo is to vote for VE and aggressively FoS someone else with a big case. The fact that someone has claimed scum doesn't mean we stop the hunt 17 zarepathPerson was signed in when posted 03-20-2013 01:39 PM ET (US) I guess... honestly I just wish he hadn't switched. Lynching third party players just seem like a waste of a lynch to me. Mafia has 2 KP; we need to get rid of them first, imo. Either way, I think most of town has now moved on to looking at other players, so as long as we're discussing potential scum, I suppose that's okay. 18 BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted 03-20-2013 04:16 PM ET (US) Edit Delete now VE is like straight up making shit up 19 BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted 03-20-2013 04:18 PM ET (US) Edit Delete So I am liking a testsubject lynch for tmr. He's been straight-up lurking to avoid confrontation, and now this OMGUS. I'm going to push him through the night in case I get shot. Is your read on him still null-scum, or have you updated it? 20 BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted 03-20-2013 05:19 PM ET (US) Edit Delete glurio has definitely been actively lurking. He's posting a bit but mostly to sheep the town opinion (especially with the WoS situation). The fact that he's starting to weigh in and take sides now, after the claiming-dust has settled, imo is scummy. That being said, I'm not interested in lynching him at this moment, because my other scumreads are much more sure. Last night you noted a townread on glurio because of his willingness to check metas and defending you, but simply defending you shouldn't be the only basis for a twonread, and meta is pretty easy for scum to fake. Have you updated your read on him given his activity today or is it still the same? 21 BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted 03-20-2013 07:13 PM ET (US) Edit Delete I've gone from feeling sure to feeling iffy on Vivax-- although I initially found him quite scummy, I now agree with what you said last night about him: he puts too much effort into way-too-shitty cases to be anything but a confused townie. Especially that thing "analysing" my timestamps from my logs. if he were scum he'd know there was nothing to find, but if he were town he'd be confused by the timestamps and think I fabricated them if he misread the timezones. Was he wrong and bone-headed? yeah, sure. But the _way_ he was wrong, and his mindset that's revealed, show him to be town. Is your read consistent with that? 22 BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted 03-20-2013 09:16 PM ET (US) Edit Delete I will admit, also, that I feel a small amount of doubt on the VE lynch. Nothing I'd reveal in thread of course, but the point is, VE is at this point unreadable/compromised on everything. I have no idea what he's thinking or doing, or how his logic functions. Nothing he's done has made sense, and these upcoming "megacases" dont' have meaning. We have to flip him at this point if we want to know if anything he's ever said was true. so that doubt is meaningless but still :/ 23 BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted 03-20-2013 09:30 PM ET (US) Edit Delete To clarify, I'm not saying "lynch VE regardless of alignment" but rather that he is surrounded by doubt and non-ransparency. The only way this could come about is that he is scum. The mindset just doesnt match up. 24 BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted 03-20-2013 11:21 PM ET (US) Edit Delete Hey man this is kind of a critical time, it would be good to have someone to bounce ideas off of, or for you to at least let me know what you're thinking. I still stand by my initial meta read of GK, but he's under a lot of pressure. I don't think he's gonna get lynched, at least, but I have doubts now anyways. bleh Looking through these logs some behaviour is noteworthy: BH is just summarizing the thread and posting his opinions freely (so as to keep up the standard he has set in the earlier logs, but Zare posts no reads at all aside from a soft defense of BH himself. Not worrying about the timestamps at all as Vivax's and my earlier analysis of them essentially meant nothing, the log itself appears to be just for show. I'm not saying they faked the QT, rather that BH opened up a QT to Zare on purpose to give him towncred he would need for later in the game. 2) Scum rolecop evidence Zare throughout the thread has been constantly fishing for role names and blue information. On March 20 2013 23:42 zarepath wrote: Wait, so Wave, you can DT somebody and you learn their role and their alignment? On March 20 2013 04:51 zarepath wrote: VE, what is the name of your role? You never said, you just claimed Vet. On March 20 2013 23:59 zarepath wrote: It concerns me if a red Eye can get away with pretending to be blue. He's been incredibly vague his entire role claim, and his breadcrumb isn't actually a breadcrumb. He could have taken any sentence he said about TPS on N1 and said "I was going to say this phrase every time I checked someone." It's true his read on him changed, but his read changed on a lot of people (Wiggles) for seemingly no reason. This is an interesting post to come up with, especially considering our knowledge of BH having done exactly this BEFORE he flipped. Note that one of his very first posts in this game is him making excuses for future blue-hunting: On March 17 2013 06:54 zarepath wrote: I find setup speculation something that a scum is more likely to want to do immediately on Day 1 than something that town is likely to want to do, because it requires zero reads on anyone else and if it EVER contributes to finding scum, it does so in an incredibly oblique way very much down the road. I don't see DAy 1 setup speculation as being one of the better things that town can do on Day 1. I did mix up your tarot card comment with VE because he mentioned something about them later, I think. I looked through your filter, geript, and I liked your comment about coddling Coag and figured you were null for now. The VE quote at the end wasn't meant to suggest VE was scummy, but to suggest that he made a good point about sciberbia's contributions thus far. When I scum hunt, I look at each person individually, and so while I did put my suspicions on VE, the fact i'm suspicious of him doesn't mean I can't agree with his suspicions on someone else. My suspect list at the end of the post was all justified by the contents of that post -- I didn't like Coag's town claim then subsequent nothing (or anything he's done since), I didn't like VE's town claim or weird scumhunting cirlce idea that almost seemed glib in tone, and I didn't like Peashooter's eagerness to talk extensively about setup speculation in a game where we were even warned things could change around; the likeliness of us figuring out this setup on Day 1 with no info is incredibly low and, as i mentioned above, an easy discussion for scum to participate in without giving themselves away, and I didn't like (as VE noted) sciberbia's certainty that people weren't scum. It's true my post didn't lead to a full conclusive scum read and vote on anybody, but it's worthwhile to post my suspicions right now, and especially at a point in the day when I knew I'd be gone for a while. Sorry it didn't flow better for you, and hopefully this clears up what your concerns were. This is to be sure that he can go about his not-so-subtle business of blue-sniping without seeming hypocritical. 'Guys, no setup speculation Day 1, it's scummy! After that it's k!' 3) Miscellaneous On March 26 2013 00:42 zarepath wrote: EBWOP: Other strikes against layabout: pushing for Mr. Wiggles lynch hard yesterday, the majority of his pressure on VE being him simply re-quoting Ace's points for lynching VE, and really, this series of quotes needs to be looked at: + Show Spoiler + On March 20 2013 08:27 layabout wrote: It's normal so we have a rough idea, i think in the mafia podcast drh mentioned wanting to use hidden communication roles Okay, so this is a setup speculation-based argument, not exactly the greatest for forming reads to begin with. if BH is the scum mason and can mason people all the time why would town's only mason be grey's role? Things get confusing here. He enters the hypothetical, essentially stating that BH can only be the scum mason if there is another town mason. Think about that argument for a second, and the number of assumptions that it's based on, and remember that layabout is going out of his way to say this IMMEDIATELY after stating that he doesn't want to look at BH right now. Keir was saying that he thinks they will be balanced am i am inclined to agree. So i think it's more likely that his role belongs to town. The very beginning of this sentence has a minor tell -- he doesn't just say that he thinks mason roles will be balanced, he has to frame it within what someone else has already said -- someone who has already flipped town. But what he's actually saying doesn't make a lot of sense, either. He's assuming that there will be a balanced number of mason roles, and that therefore his role is more likely to belong to town. But if mason roles were balanced, wouldn't that mean that there must be another mafia mason role somewhere that layabout must know about in order for BH to more likely be town? His conclusion seems to be the opposite of the logic he just presented us. Now, you can say, "oh, he just miscommunicated, or made a mistake." If you make a mistake, it is much more likely to be on the logical side of your argument than it is on the actual conclusion side. You don't say that BH is more likely to be town as an accident -- there must be a reason for that, and that reason is not anywhere in this post. I think the reason could be found more in the motivations that drive layabout than in any argument that he's presented. BH's defense of GK was scummy. His filter looks quite normal for him, i tend to skim his posts. So if BH is more likely to be town, why is this statement here? It seems that he still feels like he hasn't produced enough of a read for whoever asked him whether he thought BH was scummy or not, and so he feels compelled to say something more. But this statement reveals that layabout's read of BH has exactly no bearing on his argument that BH is town -- he admits something scummy about BH that I don't think anybody actually cares about, but then tempers that with the statement that BH's filter looks NORMAL, ie, indescript, not worth looking into. And then the final statement he makes, the fact that layabout hasn't actually thoroughly read BH's filter, makes this entire post looks like the most awkward possible dance to avoid saying anything concrete about BH at all. It looks fueled by a motivation to clear himself of any statement about BH's actual scumminess or towniness, an admission that he hasn't given serious thought to a person he is spending a serious amount of time and effort talking about, and an attempt to drive the discussion towards setup and role speculation and away from filter content and rational argument. I think this is an incredibly scummy post, and I think he knew it, too, which is why he posted a follow-up which clarified his statement into "BH might be scum if there is another town mason." But whether that's what layabout meant to say in the first place or not doesn't matter; the confusion and mistakes in this post I've dissected above reveal the motivations and priorities of layabout, and those motivations and priorities are SCUM. ##vote: layabout Apparently Zare forgot a few things about his own play while making a case against layabout. He himself pushed pretty hard for a Wriggles lynch early in the game as seen here On March 20 2013 01:46 zarepath wrote: Mr. Wiggles. He refuses to present reads, and hasn't had a read on anyone since the GM flip. But then immediately turns on me when I decide to vote him after changing my read on him. I also really don't like this recent post. On March 26 2013 21:59 zarepath wrote: btw, implicit in my post above is that I don't give a lot of credence to the kitaman case, although I'll give it another read for kicks When it was kitaman's case against me originally that gave me a townread on him Zare had no problem jumping aboard the bandwagon but now he does not even bother to give it a look? IMPORTANT: Looking through Zare's posts in general I have actually found a lot of his posting to be quite good, which may or may not contradict a lot of the scumminess I have brought up. I am making this post in case I do go down tonight urging people to have at least have a look into him again as he has escaped suspicion for quite a while. Geript you've had a scumread on him basically all game (from what I've read in your filter) so I'd like to hear your input on this. There may be some credence that can be lent to a meta case against him but I'm not 100% sure of this case unless I can see some strong evidence within his posting itself which I have been admittedly weak at analysis this game, hence all of the sheeping in my voting patterns (hell, everyone's analysis has been weak or we wouldn't be in this position). I will be around for much of the day tomorrow as we will be at LYLO and I do not want to lose this game; I expect other townies to be here to discuss as well. | ||
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I believe TPS has promised some actual activity today so I'm interested to see how that turns out. | ||
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GG town. | ||
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I honestly see no reason I should open myself up to targeting when the fairweather townies roll in with 12 hours left in the day to go to write up a fucking huge massive case. I'll put forth the effort when I feel enough people are around for us actually stand a chance today. Fuck the apparent town or anti-town motivation of this post. | ||
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WaveofShadow
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Either way I didn't get any PMs from DrH so once again, I don't see how any of it matters. | ||
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WaveofShadow
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k. | ||
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WaveofShadow
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There are still way too many people that have yet to show their faces during a LYLO day and that on its own is pretty much the scummiest thing you could ask for. What better way to ensure town loses than to not show up? Later on this evening I'll be back to give Zare what he wants and talk a little. | ||
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WaveofShadow
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On March 28 2013 15:59 DarthPunk wrote: OK. If I get shot tonight here is what you do. Lynch Ryu and Kita. If Kita doesn't die tonight he is basically guaranteed to be scum. plus all the stuff with Blazinghand and flying under the radar. If Wave of Shadow doesn't die tonight he is scum and needs to be lynched. Zarepath, geript, glurio, TPS and test subject are all probably town. They are lynchbait and have been kept around for that very reason. DO NOT LYNCH INTO THEM! DO NOT LISTEN TO THE BULLSHIT THAT RYU IS SPEWING. Find out who WoS checked. See if it makes sense. I can almost guarantee that it will be zarepath. and that Either: Zarepath will die and flip green. Not die and WoS will get roleblocked. If you get a red check out of nowhere. DO NOT BLINDLY FOLLOW IT. It is most likely MYLO at that point. If you get a red check on Zarepath. LYNCH WoS. GLHF and GG kids <3 I want to hear what people have to say regarding DP's dying words. | ||
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WaveofShadow
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I'm very surprised that DP was actually able to pick out that zare was my investigation target for last night; I'm not entirely sure how he did it since I didn't base any of my earlier investigation targets on who I was mainly targeting during the day. I'm especially interested because it must mean that DP has some solid insights into my play and perhaps the play of others, except for the whole fact that, ya know, I'm not scum. I was also debating a gambit where I essentially lied about being not being roleblocked in order to fake a red check on whoever my top scumread would be for the day, which may or may not have worked despite DP apparently foreseeing me doing something like that---I doubt I would have been able to keep people from tunneling me if they sniffed out the lie however (ie Geript). I'm going to be around for the next little bit and tomorrow as well so I will do my very best to help out in any way that I can; I'm sorry my role has been useless (and potentially harmful if TPS does in fact flip red at some point) this game. For now I vote DoYouHas because as I see it, there is absolutely no excuse for being useless at LYLO unless you want town to lose; that remains the clearest thing to me right now amidst a sea of suspicion. Vote: DoYouHas | ||
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WaveofShadow
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If you think zare is scummy what about his posting has made you feel that way, because that is the one thing that appears to be missing for me to pin him as scum. | ||
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WaveofShadow
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WaveofShadow
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Fuck Ryu and kita, fuck glurio, fuck me and everyone else who you people think are potentially scummy thus far (for now) because I have a sure scum lynch today. This case is gonna take me a while but I'm thinking this might be my best one yet. (Thank goodness) | ||
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WaveofShadow
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Alright well aside from the obvious reason I'm voting him right now (no excuses for being afk with 12 hours left to LYLO - esepcially since he has been somewhat active every other day of this game) I have a whole bunch more. Let's begin, shall we? Day 1 On March 17 2013 11:46 DoYouHas wrote: BH, I said I hadn't looked into GK's meta yet (thanks for providing links). I do think layabout/kita/wiggles have all made valid points against him. I'm withholding my vote until I go through the meta and his promised case. Right now I'm taking a break for food and TV. But when I come back from that my first order of business is to get my thoughts on zarepath out since that looks like it might get some traction. After that I will get my thoughts straight on GK and stop this 'maybe i will, maybe i won't' crap. This is the best summary anyone can give of his play throughout the entirety of Day 1. Makes a whole bunch of noncommittal reads on a whole bunch of people while never coming out and saying anything regarding them actually being scum, just stuff like: + Show Spoiler + On March 17 2013 11:03 DoYouHas wrote: - TPS needs to come back and address more than just Coag. BH's points are not enough to get my vote at the moment, but his case gets stronger the longer TPS isn't posting. - My second read-through has me agreeing with Kita, Layabout, and MrWiggles' points against GK, that is where my vote is going if my opinion doesn't change after looking into the meta that BH brought up and after reading GK's promised case. - Greymist's lack of recent posting is disturbing. First he says: But what does he actually post in his 'active period'? Considering the number of people that find him suspicious, i would think GM would be more inclined to post than he is showing. - I am also suspicious of Zarepath, Vivax, and Ryu. More on them later, I don't want to split my focus too much. On March 17 2013 07:15 DoYouHas wrote: Scib caught my eye with his first post against geript + Show Spoiler + On March 16 2013 17:23 sciberbia wrote: I've got some stuff to say about geript The first possibly important thing I noticed in the thread. The phrasing of the first sentence as a question instead of a statement seems a bit odd to me. It's like he's saying "Would you find this explanation acceptable?" rather than "This is the explanation." Seems unnecessarily passive and ingratiating. This rubs me a bit the wrong way. Seems like a crummy reason to go to bed. People accuse you of being mafia so you go to bed? What? Also, seems like he's almost providing an 'excuse' to leave the thread. Overall, leaning scum on geript. I don't think it is especially likely that zarepath and geript are both scum. If zarepath and geript actually were scumbuddies, I think there is an excellent chance that geript would have either gone through with the RNG vote (with the knowledge that it is very unlikely to lead to a lynch and with the devious hope that town would later get confused by WIFOM), or just drop the RNG thing all-together. I don't really have a conclusion to this, Scib's other posts don't raise red flags for me and what I have is not enough to turn him scum. I just want to hear more from Scib. His first solid scumread is on Zarepath but his reasoning completely lacks substance. On March 18 2013 08:57 DoYouHas wrote: Vote: zarepath Something that has been bothering me for a while now is how zarepath has been put on the back-burner. Similar to how people are dealing with Coag but with much less reason. With the exception of Vivax, nobody has really defending zare. It is like everyone took a look at the points against zare and said, "yeah, that does look bad, let's move on". Am I alone in thinking that it is suspicious that there was so little opposition to us pushing zare, yet it gained so little traction? Obviously some townies just prefer their own choice and are going to push it. But I can't shake the feeling that zare is getting pushed off the consideration table, not because he is a worse candidate, but because scum are invested in changing the focus. I know that above paragraph isn't super logical, it is my intuition. But when I pair it with the points made earlier by myself and scib I definitely want to lynch zarepath today. He even acknowledges himself that this post makes no sense yet still points heavy suspicion in red and Zare and yet fails to vote for him. That's real commitment right thurr. He then appears to realize this probably isn't good enough so he resorts to filter diving, making sure rather than consolidating he has to appear like he's doing something. On March 18 2013 09:56 DoYouHas wrote: Here are a bunch of zarepath's past filters, let's get to digging: This Town Ain't Big Enough VT NMMXXXVII VT NMMXXXVI VT And if you dig really far back you get his 1 scum game, which also happens to be the first game I played on TL as well. I don't know how well his scum meta would have held up as this game is more than a year old (Jan. 2012), and he has played a fair bit since. NMMIII Goon Like, why make this post without actually giving us some information about these games? "Guys look at me! I'm looking into my scumread's meta! Look at how helpful I'm being!" + Show Spoiler + On March 18 2013 12:07 DoYouHas wrote: I did find some interesting corroborating evidence in his meta, but I also ran into a some frustration in the form of his old scum game that I can't decide whether or not is a good heuristic. I can't really compare activity between his past games and this one because we know that he can't be as active on weekends, and that has cut down his post count for this day 1. What I looked at was tone. Hopeless, Scib, and I all separately took issue with the tone of zarepath's posts. Hopeless thought that he seemed like he was looking for things to say, stances to take. Scib thought that his heart wasn't in it, that he was producing generic pro-town advice to fake being town. I said that I felt like his scumhunting felt shallow, that he was shuffling players into his suspicions using silly categories. That kind of critique could not be made of the day1 posts of those 3 town games I linked earlier. In those games his tone is very active, even when he is uncertain (Clicky). Note that in that post his tone is completely different than what we have seen in this game, it looks like he isn't just commenting, he is participating. The one big thing I would draw your attention to in that post is that he states, "My reads are all very close to null at this point on everyone. ". At this point in that game he has even fewer solid reads than he has shown in this one. And yet, his tone is so incredibly superior. The frustration comes with his really old scum game. Some things fit: the posting of generic pro-town advice, the passive tone in a lot of his posts. Other things do not: the bold strokes of suggesting an rng lynch right off the bat, the hard defense of the day1 townie lynch, and the way he responds to slOosh's case. I can't decide whether or not to throw out this game because of it's age or to leave it in there and just have it be a non-alignment indicative piece of evidence. tl;dr - I think zarepath's meta supports him being scum this game mainly by analyzing tone. (PS. Please check me on all this, I don't want to be screwed by confirmation bias.) Here he gets to the meta analysis. What do we learn from this heavy analysis that he does (to me it looked like he only read the first post of each game, but whatever)? Nothing at all. He is fine to tell us that the meta makes zare look scummy but his own analysis he says is inconclusive based on his scumgame evidence being way too old. Why bother bringing it up? When someone makes a case they're either trying to get discussion going about a target or they're trying to paint him as scum and get the town to vote for him. DYH finds a way to be wishy-washy enough to do neither and both and the same time. He eventually votes for Zare who appears to be his top scumread but then at the beginning of Night 2 decides to just dump all of that by the wayside and focus on blaming Ryu's case causing the mislynch of GreYMisT. Night 1 Not much to say here. Accuses me of scumslipping, admits it's weak, backs off. Calls out Ryu, admits it's weak, backs off. Day 2 Keir is killed, immediately drops his scumread on Zare. I sense a pattern here! Today is interesting because this is the BH blue-claim. Apart from his very first post on the matter, DYH seems to have no opinion regarding BH whatsoever. He treads extremely carefully every time BH is mentioned so much so that it stands out to me. Refuses to acknowledge whether he believes BH is town or scum. On March 20 2013 05:05 DoYouHas wrote: @Vivax - You are ignoring the obvious explanation for the supposed slip you are trying to nail BH with. "Okay so the hosts are dragging their feet with setting up the Mason QT(So BH made one himself) so I'll drop some stuff in here(here being the QT BH just made) since I have to step out for a moment." It is far more probable than your theory that BH made a QT, the hosts were made aware of it, and they just stuck with that QT for the BH-GK masoning. The slip you found simply isn't. @WOS You are supposing that BH, GK, and possibly VE all coordinated enough to create these false logs, yet you don't think they could have changed the timestamps to make the exchange look more genuine? If you think the logs are faked, analyzing the timestamps like you are is worthless. He soft defends BH all day while being very careful not to mention his own thoughts on BH's alignment. This post is but one example of him Chainsawing VE. On March 21 2013 07:21 DoYouHas wrote: So here is an interesting thing, VE. If you think that there is a decent chance that The Mirror is scum, why are you still pushing the idea that BH is scum mason. Do you really think that mafia have 2 masoning roles? Here again, knowing what we now know this looks incredibly scummy. Another soft defense while at the same time being very careful to discredit VE at the same time. On March 21 2013 08:44 DoYouHas wrote: 1. - WoS's claim is the scummiest claim possible. 2 sentences later, it is about as good as it gets for scum. Either we have two very different interpretations as to what those things mean, or you just said that WoS's claim is both very bad and very good, barely a breath apart. Not to mention the ridiculously begrudging language you are using to describe believing the claim. Strike 1. 2. - VE was on the scum list? Go into that more please. What originally caught your eye about VE? Did you have an opinion on cosmic's case? Who else besides VE and BH are on this scumlist? Does it bother you that the person you are voting for was tunneling your most consistent scumread (BH) for the better part of a day? You seem to agree with me about 'The Mirror' not adding up. Why would you state your 'most likely' scenario without even referring to the extended conversation VE and I just had about possible explanations. Again you use the phrase 'no choice' as if you want no part in the blame for the VE lynch if it happens. YOU THINK that the most likely scenario has VE as an anti-town role, YOU cast your vote. Justify it, explain your logic, lead us in your thinking. If you have a most likely scenario, that means you considered less likely scenarios. What were they? by what criteria did you dismiss them? Strike 2. 3. - You have a huge scum tell on BH, this scum tell is that he hasn't been consistently referring to you in his top scum reads while you essentially haven't been playing the game. This is your only reasoning. This isn't a case, this doesn't convince anyone you are right that are not already thinking BH is scum. You want to take the firm stance on BH, but you don't want to do the work, that is scummy. Strike 3. Vote: TestSubject893 PS. Sorry to hear about your RL issues, but you are scum. Oh look, another soft defense of BH. His entire effort on Day 2 is dedicated to pushing VE and pressuring him while at the same time defending BH to keep him in the game as long as possible. Even more interesting is the ridiculous chainsaw he pulls on TestSubject after the spammy interaction between Test and BH. Hasn't VE been DYH's main scumread and focus all day? So why is it that when Testsubject appears to agree with him, he immediately changes his vote?? In keeping with the DYH theme, he gets called out for making a bad case once more and not 2 hours later, he realizes how scummy that vote switch makes him look and he changed it to an easy target, Wiggles. On March 21 2013 10:38 DoYouHas wrote: I don't think there is a 3rd party in this game. The reason everyone starting jumping on VE is because he left his acceptance line in the logs, right? That means that everyone who initially jumped on VE is accepting that the 3rd party recruiting mechanic is based off getting players to choose an option that is against their current faction's win condition. I can't be the only one that finds that ridiculous in general and not at all likely for a 'normal' game? In fact, can anyone give me a 3rd party recruitment mechanic that doesn't involve standard press-ganging of people from their current faction that actually makes sense in the context of what was in those logs and isn't ridiculous to the point of not possibly being in a 'normal' game? And if the recruitment mechanic is in some way a press-gang mechanic, how is that supported at all by the log or the context? But what if VE was recruited from the start and they faked the logs? Not possible, if VE was recruited from the start we never would have gotten the initial post where he says he has been contacted by The Mirror. There are only 2 explanations that actually work with the given information. 1. VE is scum and fabricated the whole thing. I don't think this is true because it would be a high effort, high risk, low reward move. He had just claimed Vet, adding this on top doesn't make sense. 2. The Mirror is a mafia mason, and used that power to spread misinformation. It explains why the recruitment mechanics don't add up. It explains why VE was chosen, he had just outed the first person who masoned him. It explains why The Mirror didn't seem to care after VE outed him. I still have my couple points that don't add up pre-3p that pointed to VE being scummy, but if I am right about the 3p situation, and I think I am, it trumps all of my earlier suspicions. VE is town. I'm moving my vote to Wiggles, who seems to be the only other viable option. Unvote: TestSubject893 Vote: Mr. Wiggles The bolded section is pretty huge. Aside from DYH now flip-flopping to defend VE (again, not scummy on its own) despite jumping on the bandwagon for the exact same reason he is now calling others out for, look at his explanations for possible scenarios. He knows who the mafia mason is, and sees a perfect opportunity to deflect the threat. It also gives him an opportunistic explanation of the mafia mason role but in doing so, HE SCUMSLIPS. What he is describing is exactly the opposite of what occurred with BH after VE outed him to make him look completely different from what the ACTUAL scum mason did. BH got outed by VE who cared enough to risk a fake-claim, and by saying that a scum mason wouldn't care about that he attempts to get the heat off BH once again. Also take into account his prior knowledge of VE being town, and that there are very obviously more than 2 explanations as to what works with the 'given information' but DYH chooses to omit those other explanations; something scum needs to do. DYH's ENTIRE DAY 2 IS DEDICATED TO DEFENDING BH. Good rationale for your Wiggles vote btw, DYH. On March 21 2013 12:42 DoYouHas wrote: I like your case on Ace, MrWiggles, I like it a lot. It also doesn't hurt that you happen to agree with me on the scum mason thing. Unvote: Mr. Wiggles Vote: Ace To add to your point of him trying to get us to talk about fruitless subjects here is an exchange that could very well have been exactly that: + Show Spoiler + On March 19 2013 16:05 DoYouHas wrote: Gotta say, that instantly makes me like a zarepath lynch much less. On March 19 2013 16:06 Ace wrote: why? On March 19 2013 16:12 Ace wrote: How does Keirathi's death paint zarepath as innocent? On March 19 2013 16:26 DoYouHas wrote: Yes, my thinking could be reduced to WIFOM but here it is anyways. Scum priorities for NKs tend to fall along what threatens them the most balanced with a risk/reward assessment. If zare is scum, then the people threatening him right now are myself, Scib, and Vivax (off the top of my head). Vivax might be slightly less of a threat, as people have repeatedly ignored some of the things he says. But both Scib and I are extremely hard lynches at the moment, being considered townie by practically all of the thread (if I have read correctly). This makes Scib and I, and to a lesser degree, Vivax, logical targets IF zarepath is scum, and IF he was feeling the pressure. BH is another logical target if his roleclaim is true (I think it is, but can't be 100% sure). Now consider possible Medic protections. BH has claimed blue which could likely pull a medic's attention. Scib is probably the most townie and biggest threat in general, also a good chance of protection. But that still leaves myself and Vivax as pretty safe targets. Yes, this is WIFOM, but if I was scum this is how I would sift possible targets IF I was worried about zare getting lynched D2. Instead we get a Keirathi kill. A good kill because he is a solid town player, but by killing a replacement player who had very little time to put forth his opinions my guess is that scum is less worried about the track town is currently on, and more worried about a new voice providing a course correction. Ace tried to get responses from scib and I that lay out WIFOM thinking that is generally unhelpful, and could potentially waste the time of town if it hadn't been shut down quickly by BH and Moc after I indulged. There are other explanations, but for any of them to work Ace would have had to follow through with his questions in one form or another, he does not. Sigh, another lame vote switch. DYH isn't even trying to hide it now. Day 3 + Show Spoiler + On March 22 2013 17:26 DoYouHas wrote: Ok, so I checked in to see the flips right after the deadline, shut off my computer, and tried to go to sleep because I need to get up early tomorrow. I couldn't sleep, the flips have given me a sudden clarity to my reads and my brain wouldn't stop going. I think I have greatly narrowed the number of suspects. -Testsubject: Claimed the vigi hit on BH, no reason to disbelieve. Town. -VE - At this point he is as close to guaranteed not-mafia as we are ever going to get, town or 3p. -Zarepath - Very likely to be town. The quality of his posts has been going up as the game progresses and I just don't see how scum zarepath posts this about me. -WoS & TPS: I believe WoS's claim, but even if I didn't I would take him off the table for today's lynch because of it. Also, TPS seems cleared both by WoS's check and the fact that he was BH's first choice of tunnel. -kitaman27: Seems quite townie to me. I don't know if anybody would disagree with me on this point. -layabout: Similar to kita in my mind, if a little less verbose, town or 3p. -Coag and Kenpachi: I read both as town, possible 3p. It should be noted that in my mind the lynching objectives of the 3p, if it exists, should be the same as the towns, given how horrendously fast we are losing this. Because of this I consider VE off the table for today. That is 10/17 people who's opinion I think I can trust (including my own). This narrows my field of search to just 7 names: DP, Trance, glurio, CC, geript, Ryu, and Wiggles. Some of which I find scummy, some of which I am null on currently, and some of which I just haven't looked into enough. And no, I'm not going to say which is which. I've shot myself in the foot using this kind of reasoning before when I thought I had the whole scumteam pegged. But really I was 2/4, and in my attempts to convict them all I alienated the 2 townies in the group, lost their votes and had the lynch manipulated to the wrong target. If you disagree strongly with the people in either of these groups, I want to hear it. But if I am not completely out of touch with this game, and I correctly identified most of the townies, and those same townies also see it this way, we just created a majority, so long as we can actually work together to pick the best lynch candidate. Remember, if you are in my second group, I'm not calling you scum yet, and clearly I would be wrong about at least 3 of you. I want your comments too. I want to refine this list of reads until scum have nowhere left to hide. Hopefully I will be able to sleep now that I have gotten this out of my head. Gnight. WIFOM out the fucking wazoo. What the hell is this list even supposed to accomplish? He says he has narrowed the list of suspects yet he lists half the players in the game, calls some town, some 3rd party despite the fact that HE ASSUMED THERE WAS NO 3RD PARTY YESTERDAY. Of his supposed scum list 2 have already flipped town. On March 23 2013 07:10 DoYouHas wrote: What is making DP stick out to me (and why I need to look into him more) is that I'm getting a disconnect from when I played with him in Witchcraft. I was scum and he was town. In Witchcraft he was still abrasive, but he was also constructive. By the end of day1 he had established himself as townie, second only to Hapa. I wasn't the only one who felt like that either, in Witchcraft people voted in town power roles, we killed DP because it was clear that the town sentiment leaned towards him being town enough that we were comfortable shooting him with a silver bullet (we were right, he died). I have not seen that active, pro-town DP from Witchcraft this game. I encourage you to take a look at that game. Also, he has 9 pages of filter and I feel like I know very little about where he stands. Maybe that is just me being inattentive, but it might be a signal that he is flying under the radar. He appears to start zoning into his supposed scumlist but once again, DYH says a lot while saying absolutely nothing. Flings suspicion around and then once again, 3 posts later: On March 23 2013 08:10 DoYouHas wrote: Yeah... I'm pretty confident that DP is actually town. Unlike Wiggles, DP actually looks better for the BH flip. He has more than a few interactions with BH that seem very genuine. The way he defends himself is solid, the way he pursued his WoS suspicion but then is ready to drop it after WoS's claim. The way he interacted with Scib and went after layabout. Everything reads pretty townie. @Kenpachi - What are your reasons for having DP as one of your top scum reads? Has DYH even dropped a solid scumread with some evidence to back it up all game? All he has been doing the entire game is throwing suspicion around, waiting to be proved wrong and flip-flopping his reads. He has flown under the radar mostly because he has actually attempted to make it look like he is contributing, and doing a much better job of it than many of the other people we have found scummy this game. + Show Spoiler + On March 25 2013 14:34 DoYouHas wrote: @DP - I think it is safe to say that VE was town when BH masoned him. The logical way for a townie mason to operate is to mason other townies to improves scumhunting. Masoning scumreads is only likely to get you killed. Because of this I think it is reasonable to assume that BH would choose townies to start off with, that way he could justify his choices if he had to claim and would also have 2 townies that would likely be on his side because he was 'right' and discussed in-thread action with them. Also, the sequence of events just seems unbelievable for scum to make up. VE starts with a super-spotlight grabbing idea (SAST), follows it with revealing BH as a mason, then claims vet, then reveals a 3p with the acceptance line in it. The way that VE has pursued scum reads has sometimes been scummy, but almost everything else surrounding him points to town/3p. Right now what concerns me the most are the people who have been coming in from time to time with large, thought out, persuasive posts. Unfortunately that is not a small group this game. I refuse to believe that even this town has utterly failed to provide any good analysis on people. So when I see that over the course of day2 we managed to put forth 3 townies and 1 probable townie as the lynch options, I have to think that town is being manipulated. My advice if I happen to die tonight is to treat tomorrow like a second day1. Wipe the slate clean for everyone, IE your town/scum leanings, and proceed as if it was day1 with a ton of source material to talk about. We are all making assumptions that are screwing us, let go of your current scum reads, look at the game with fresh eyes, and see if you come to the same conclusion or if someone new sticks out to you even more. Hmm. So he identifies the problem as the people who ahve come in, made massive posts and disappeared. In other words, not him. He also slips nicely here; in the first part of the second paragraph he asks us to wipe our slates clean and then he only asks us to drop our scum reads. That's pretty suspicious. Who are our scumreads at this point in the day that we need to eliminate, and why only the scumreads? On March 25 2013 14:16 Coagulation wrote: ryu and geript are who im looking at for lynch tomorrow. I dont think WOS has faked his claim. Kenpachi looks legit cosmicomic im 50/50 on I dont really know if anything I have seen makes him scummy. doyouhas is flying low. kita has also been flying real low. Hes ignoring me alot too I dunno why. Same with Dbz. Only people who are not ignoring me are people who never played with me before. anyway im town. I know it looks like shit that I wanted to lynch wiggles but I honestly considered him a good chance to flip scum. On March 25 2013 14:15 DarthPunk wrote: Hi I've been reading the thread but to be honest I am pretty disheartened with the whole situation. For what it's worth I have a solid town read on Wave of shadow. Somethings I didn't;t like recently. This is the second time Viscera Eyes has said something similar to this and just disappeared afterwards. These false promises of activity are really scummy. VE was a really really solid scum read of mine until his claim. I think it would have been retarded to fake claim by holding back KP day one. But not impossible. He is a question that needs to be solved. But honestly I am too worried about mislynching to take a risk on VE. Maybe he is the best choice. IDK. The other thing I didn;t like was this. These kind of posts are super weird after we mislynched again. When I mislynch three times in a row my confidence is shot. I double and triple think every read because I am worried about mis-lynching again. So when people come straight out after a mislynch like that fearlessly wanting to lynch into lynch bait. It worries me immensely. Could it be that DYH was swooping in to make us drop our reads because we're finally onto something? I'm not sure honestly, that's WIFOM. Once again he does make a nice show of trying to be the voice of reason here despite the fact that he's done nothing in 2 days. DYH's final efforts before disappearing for the day have been a push on layabout, calling him 3rd party despite the fact that he didn't originally believe the role existed (or was that just to protect BH? I guess he can't get his stories straight). I don't want to make an association case here but it certainly looks as though scum are actually starting to worry about the 3rd party issue here and are trying to eliminate it as a threat (which they succeeded at, apparently) but guessed partially wrong. One of the hardest pushes DYH has made in days and it's on layabout? This late in the game I think we come down to the crux of the issue. It makes absolutely no sense to bus this late in the game therefore I legitimately believe that DYH and layabout MUST have different alignments; that DYH is scum and layabout was converted town. At this point in the game DYH was attempting to be that 'little voice of reason' he has attempted to make a big show of all game, and he disappeared long before the cc flip to avoid any suspicion if cc did flip town. He didn't even need to consolidate with the rest of his team who had apparently decided that cc was much more dangerous as 3rd party OR town than layabout. And so we come to the end of it. If anyone has anything to add to this case, PLEASE do so, and if anyone has any critiques by all means, bring them. We are need of a strong case today and I would like to hope that this one can be it; whether it needs to be helped along or torn down is up for discussion now. Summary: DoYouHas has constantly and consistently flown under the radar. He has made no consistent reads without WIFOMing them to hell all on his own and has made a great show of attempting to contribute to discussion when all he does is derail it and add no useful information himself. We have 12 hours to go at LYLO and he has not shown himself. DoYouHas is scum and must be lynched today. | ||
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On March 30 2013 05:12 ThePeashooter wrote: DYH is not scum and I won't be voting for him. Really? That's all you can give me? Reasoning? On March 29 2013 14:23 ThePeashooter wrote: Anyway moving on. I was planning on writing a big case, but I know this is going to give me sick amounts of joy. If you would all direct yourself to the bolded. Zarepath is scum. This is a classic "Hold off on X for now" and then redirecting the lynch. I just spent an hour comparing timestamps and if you look closely it lines up with when the lynch train got diverted off Zare when he was surely about to die. A scum BH would have literally no incentive to soft protect Zare from being a Day 1 lynch. He followed it up by hard pushing greymist. I know poor little BH can't respond, but it's going to give me immense satisfaction by spending the entire game day using his own posts to rape his entire scum team. Hey so...12 hours left, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU WAITING FOR. You spent 6 hours reading the thread and all you have time for is to exchange pithy comments with Kenpachi and ask questions to people who clearly aren't responding? For somebody who has been pretty condescending all game of other people's playstyles yours is fucking awful. You told me earlier if we were at LYLO you were actually going to put forth effort to help us win this game but so far I haven't seen it. | ||
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On March 29 2013 14:39 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh and to answer Geript, yes I still have a townread on kita; I don't really see any reason to doubt him right now despite what others have been saying---there has been no conrete evidence of a scum kita. | ||
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Top scumreads and why? Your refutation of my points against you regarding your D1 play: what are your current thoughts on zare? Did you read my case on him at all? | ||
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You're of no use to us if you can't give us something concrete and why. No sheeping, no WIFOM. | ||
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Glurio what you have done today requires no effort. What Ryu has done today requires no effort. What TPS has done today requires no effort. What Kenpachi has done today requires no effort. And the list goes on and fucking ON. IF YOU PEOPLE ARE TOWN THEN THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE TO INACTIVITY, LACK OF READS WITH EXPLANATIONS AND LACK OF CRITICAL THOUGHT WITH 8 HOURS TO LYLO. If you find my case bad or good, FUCKING EXPLAIN WHY. Give the town something to work with, goddamnit. | ||
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On March 30 2013 08:17 geript wrote: Point 1. The missing roleblock revisited. Let's examine the roleblock scenario if there is a scum roleblocker. N1: Roleblock Keirathi (couldn't be VE because he would likely be dead if roleblocks work as in normal games). I would like to point out again that this choice of actions makes zero sense. There's no reason to RB Keirathi IMO. N2: Roleblock WoS N3: Roleblock WoS N4: Roleblock WoS. This action makes zero sense either as DP's post pretty much said ignore any red check claim from WoS. More importantly, TestSubject had claimed Vigilante. If you're in a good position as scum are you going to risk allowing a claimed Vigilante who hit scum once to have a second shot if it's possible? Much like I pointed out in my case against DYH, you conveniently ignore possible scenarios if they don't fit your explanation. N1 they didn't necessarily have to roleblock anybody, thereby creating the suspicion against me (or whoever their eventual target would be) when it mysteriously appeared. Your point on N4 makes a lot more sense except for the fact that Test had already used his shot and they KILLED him anyway. Why RB when you can kill someone?? As far as DP is concerned, I've already mentioned (as you point out later) I applaud his prediction skills but just because he says something doesn't mean mafia have to follow it. Point 2. WIFOM Deadguy stuff If you don't trust me on the matter, then you really should listen to these guys: + Show Spoiler [sciberbia] + On March 21 2013 10:48 sciberbia wrote: on WoS His blueclaim does not affect my opinion on his alignment. I still think he is pretty likely to be scum, but I am willing to wait to see if he is still alive tomorrow, which I think he will be. On March 21 2013 11:12 sciberbia wrote: I have read every page of the thread at least once, and I do in fact have major doubts about your claim, as I just said. Maybe I'm wrong though. We'll see D3 I guess. On March 21 2013 12:14 sciberbia wrote: @WoS I did read the thread and I know you claim to have investigated TPS. Which is why it's odd to me that you bring him up as useless and say you "read" him as town when if you are a cop then you know for a fact he is town. Anyway, you are not the lynch today so I'm dropping this. On March 28 2013 15:59 DarthPunk wrote: Lynch Ryu and Kita. If Kita doesn't die tonight he is basically guaranteed to be scum. plus all the stuff with Blazinghand and flying under the radar. If Wave of Shadow doesn't die tonight he is scum and needs to be lynched. + Show Spoiler [DarthPunk] + On March 28 2013 14:01 DarthPunk wrote: Read kita's and Ryu's filters and tell me what you think. Tell me what you think of kita's zero interaction with Blazing hand. + Show Spoiler [TestSubject983] + On March 27 2013 12:28 TestSubject893 wrote: Well this throws a wrench in things. I was all ready to come back and stack on cosmic since no one believes me that WoS is obviously scum.... I don't see any reason not to believe him since layabout isn't objecting. I guess its possible that they're both scum. Its also possible that they actually are gonna get some KP later and are just lying. Hmmm.... gotta think about this. On March 26 2013 01:24 TestSubject893 wrote: Its ok for you to play terrible because you're gonna get RBed? That's your excuse? Not gonna cut it. I've never seen anyone but scum express this sentiment. I don't know why'd you'd say this as town. On March 26 2013 01:13 TestSubject893 wrote: You've played exactly like a scum would if they fake claimed, so if you're town you've only got yourself to blame for us mislynching today. ##Vote: WaveofShadow As scum, there's direct incentive to remove players who are making sense and players who are on the right track. There are 3 dead guys who wanted to lynch WoS. How does that read to you? WIFOM. There are plenty of dead guys who pointed out other people as well. Like GreYMisT: On March 18 2013 11:12 GreYMisT wrote: Again, if I have to die so be it. the best I can do is say that I think goodkarma should be lynched. After GK I think waveofShadow should be looked into, followed by testsubject. These are my feelings at the moment. Point 3. Next let's look at Day 2 when Wave came under pressure: What's his direct response to pressure? This: That's right he voted for Wiggles. Wiggles already had a wagon started on him with Zarepath, GK and VE voting for him. Is there any reasoning behind why Wiggles is scum? No, this is just a deflection towards a lurker. I stand by the fact that he appeared scummy ever since my read on him changed at the beginning of the game. Zero regrets. Point 4. He voted with his scum reads on the deflection onto WIggles: + Show Spoiler [VE is scummy] + On March 20 2013 05:47 WaveofShadow wrote: Ok looking at the cosmic case on VE, there are a few things that are reaching just a little bit, but overall the inconsistencies pointed out in VE's play are pretty damning. Even more damning may be the fact that VE returns to the thread and completely ignores the (clearly good) case on him without trying to defend any of the points made on these inconsistencies, rather he just adds another post weakly pushing BH again. I'm interested to hear what BH himself thinks of this evidence, especially since he had originally regarded VE as his strognest town read at the time. GK regarding your post on Wiggle, I originally had him as a townread but he has done dick all since yesterday aside from this: which adds nothing of value at all. I think for now my scumread on VE is stronger but at least he is around to maybe provide some defense. Wiggle's posts are useless but VE's are blatant contradictions. I'm having a lot of trouble trusting either VE or BH right now but it's seeming more and more to me that one of them may have to be scum. On March 20 2013 05:24 WaveofShadow wrote: K glurio. GL buddy. I'll look into cosmic's VE case again, but in the end I think it just makes me assume that one of either VE or BH has to be scum. The super hard defense of GK by BH makes me think if he's scum then likely GK is too btu I don't know how likely that is, despite my conspiracy theory and the QT 'scumslip.' Speaking of which I remember harboring concerns about VE's town circle earlier on D1, but now we're on D2 and we haven't heard anything. Was it a joke or what? + Show Spoiler [BH+GK scummy] + On March 20 2013 05:08 WaveofShadow wrote: You misunderstand. I said it's more likely for BH/GK logs to be faked than BH/VE, if you read my case. I also never said they faked the logs entirely, I assume by the timestamps that they were actually using the mason QT but it is a possibility they are using the scum QT to discuss what to put in the mason QT in case they had to show logs. Much like my conspiracy theory-type posts from LX, I can perfectly understand if people think they're retarded, but I think it's at least worth consideration. On March 20 2013 06:02 WaveofShadow wrote: Alright there we go, so there goes one of cosmic's points against you...that wasn't so hard. The other point (I don't care about the DP nonsense) that struck home for me was you fingering GK earlier on and then assuming he was town to make the case against BH. I'll link for your convenience: Do you agree with both BH and GK being scum partners and that the logs were faked? Point 5. He treats BH and VE differently Despite being back and forth as to who is scum (at first he's thinking BH+GK are scum, then he agrees that VE looks scummy, then he's back to BH+GK), The main thing that you'll really notice about this whole exchange is how in the whole time he doesn't really attack or pressure BH in any way. As a matter of fact, he takes the softball approach with BH: Whereas on VE he's far more direct: Let's look at his record for votes for the day: Wiggles, then VE then GK. That's right, despite thinking and saying this: He still manages to never vote for BH. As town, the logical thing to do would be to if one of VE or BH are scum is to pick a side, in the worst you can get a Vig to shoot the other. You learn very little if GK is town as BH could still be scum and VE could still be town. Lol is this your 'behavioural analysis' horseshit again? Because I honestly see no difference at all and you're really reaching here. It shows. I was unsure as to BH/VE and I attempted to ask them questions at various points during the day. That's all there is to it, really, but then again you do love looking wayyyy into things when there isn't anything huh? If you're scum then I applaud you for this game but if you're town, you really need to rethink the way you play this game since you've incorrectly fingered me as mafia in every game we've played aside from NMM 37 Point 6. N4/D5 progression. WoS ends the night with this. Note the subtle attempt to discredit. "Uhh, I don't think that non-interaction is scummy, but why haven't you interacted with XYZ people?" He starts off D5 with a weak case on Zarepath. Then when people don't respond and I shoot it down, he moves his vote onto DYH. Next and MOST IMPORTANTLY Kita posts two cases, the first on Glurio+ Show Spoiler + On March 29 2013 09:45 kitaman27 wrote: Glurio I already outlined a case against Glurio, but that was a couple days ago so I'll update based on the events of the last few days. Case for reference: + Show Spoiler + On March 24 2013 03:46 kitaman27 wrote: For tomorrow, someone I think we should be looking at is glurio. To start the game, he posts suspicion against coag, stating that coag is useless, without actually calling coag scummy. Rather than actually voting for coag, he votes for DP, a player he never actually mentions in the thread. It's not like DP was more of a lynch-able candidate as there were only 2 votes on him. During the first cycle, he never actually mentions GreYMisT, which is significant considering he was the main lynch candidate for the day. He soft defends BH, without actually providing a reason why he doesn't have a scum read on him. With the day two vote, he votes for Mocsta as the lone vote. At no point in the cycle does he try to convince others to vote Mocsta, only that he was going with his "gut". After the BH flip, he explains how BH's interaction with Wiggles is scum-to-scum conversation, yet decides to vote cosmicomics. Glurio complains that no one listens to him, but on day one and two there was actually nothing to listen to. How are we supposed to be convinced by his posts if his only explanation is his gut? Overall, Glurio feels like an observer this game, looking to stay under the radar and lacks the town motivation to push a lynch. It seems that he cares more about survival and doing his own thing, voting for players that have no chance of being lynched. He would be a good lynch candidate tomorrow. First I want to highlight the following post: When I listed glurio and CC as my top scum reads, glurio responded with the above question. A scum glurio would very well know that I would have no explanation, even though both players would be anti-town. He tries to tie his alignment to the alignment of another player to make me question my reads. Notice the wording of this post. After the mirror claim, rather than stating "cosmic is scum", he states that "he couldn't convince me he is town." As a mafia glurio, would certainly know that cosmic is third party, the way he phrases this statement betrays the fact that he has additional knowledge about the game. In his soft-defense of BH, he disregards any notion of potentially voting for him, but doesn't provide any reasoning why. Last cycle glurio expresses his suspicion of layabout, yet now he has failed to even bring him up, shifting his suspicion towards myself and ryu. Why post suspicion of a player without following through with it, unless you want to create distance from a player in case one of you two flip. Look how glurio attacks WoS's checks, but refuses to actually call him scummy. He calls the checks terrible, yet never states what conclusion he comes to based on the checks. What point is there to cast suspicion on a player that you have a town read? glurio is playing the classic backseat mafia role. He has no interest in attracting any attention, being involved in any arguments or pushing any lynches. If I had to pick one word to characterize his play, it would be "safe". I can't find one post that shows glurio feels strongly about a single issue He votes for a player on day one with two other votes. He votes for a player on day two with zero other votes. Rather than scum hunting, he is hunting for players to vote for that will keep him out of the spotlight. Notice in his defense post about how his wasn't around for the second half of either cycle. Instead of pushing his lynch, his is throwing down his vote and returning 24 hours later to find out who flipped. glurio is scum On March 29 2013 10:01 kitaman27 wrote: People are all giving layabout a free pass due to his third party conversion and his attack on BH. The important thing to remember is that on day two his alignment changed. Comparing his play from day one to day two, the part the stands out is that his attacks on BH don't start until he becomes third party. On day one he doesn't mention BH, yet after being converted he suddenly wants BH lynched. Look how flippy floppy layabout is with his lynch target on day four. He doesn't care who gets lynched, he is just voting for the player that is most likely to have the most votes. He calls DP scum, then turns around and votes with DP. A third party player who was originally town would want a scum lynch since it would mean that if he was ever converted back, he would be in a better position. A third party player that was originally mafia would simply push whatever option was available. layabout is scum As town if you have a town read on someone + Show Spoiler + On March 29 2013 14:39 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh and to answer Geript, yes I still have a townread on kita; I don't really see any reason to doubt him right now despite what others have been saying---there has been no conrete evidence of a scum kita. On March 29 2013 02:42 WaveofShadow wrote: So we're at LYLO, we're completely in the dark as to what's going on with last night's resolution of actions and we have 8 posts total in almost 12 hours. So at LYLO, you completely ignore your town read's posts and instead go off on another tangents. That is not consistent with town play. Someone asked me about his reads (may have been kita himself, I forget) and I didn't find anything wrong with his cases per se, but I didn't find them particularly compelling in any way. Kinda like this case. I need more to go on about every single read that has popped up today and for the most part, I haven't gotten it so I didn't want to comment about it yet. Point 7. Everything is wrong with this post. First off, notice the attempt to discredit DP. He's saying that DP both had a good read on him (knowing who he would target) and a bad read on him (he's town). More importantly, he doesn't even go on to defend or explain why he thinks DP is right or wrong about WoS, Kita or Ryu. Second off, notice how “as town” he considered lying about a red check. As town, if you think you're at LYLO, WHY LIE? There's no reason. Not only are people going to have a hard time believing you because of DP's last post, but WoS hasn't had good reads at all. He never even took a real side on the whole VE/BH “one of them must be scum” concept. Why should anyone believe him? The reason why he didn't want to do it was because there's no way we'd believe him or trust him if he did. Third, notice the subtle “don't look/tunnel me plz” comment. I cut him some rope today because I've historically thought he was scum and because glurio made a good point on it, But at this point, it's not bad townie play, it's pure malicious. Fourth, for someone who hasn't put a vote on scum or found scum or "rolechecked" scum (other than perhaps Zarepath) it's damn hypocritical to call someone else useless. That's not creating townie atmosphere; it's trying to bury someone. [b]This is your worst point by far. Why in all that is holy would I ADMIT TO POTENTIALLY SCHEMING and specifically DRAW ATTENTION to DP's suspicion of me when I could have just said nothing about my being RBed tonight at all? (Fuck if I even know if I was RBed for sure, once again I got nothing from DrH at all.) If I'm discrediting him then why would I congratulate his read on me WHICH I DIDN'T EVEN HAVE TO ADMIT TO IN THE FIRST PLACE? Why not, as Zare suggested, just throw my check on someone that died again? Oh yeah, because I'm fucking town and I'm trying to be transparent about my play. Apparently I was transparent enough that DP read me perfectly so there's something to be said about that. Geript do yourself a favour and look elsewhere; we're running out of time and your tunneling attempts will get you nowhere. Don't rely on dead people's reads, get your own. | ||
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Kita I have no idea where to go on glurio right now. I'm going to re-re-re-look into him now. I've thought he was scum for most of the game but it's entirely possible his 'lone-wolf' voting style and lack of explanations when sheeping post are just his typical town play as well which is what is stopping me. Either way I'm not changing my vote to glurio right now. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + This is your worst point by far. Why in all that is holy would I ADMIT TO POTENTIALLY SCHEMING and specifically DRAW ATTENTION to DP's suspicion of me when I could have just said nothing about my being RBed tonight at all? (Fuck if I even know if I was RBed for sure, once again I got nothing from DrH at all.) If I'm discrediting him then why would I congratulate his read on me WHICH I DIDN'T EVEN HAVE TO ADMIT TO IN THE FIRST PLACE? Why not, as Zare suggested, just throw my check on someone that died again? Oh yeah, because I'm fucking town and I'm trying to be transparent about my play. Apparently I was transparent enough that DP read me perfectly so there's something to be said about that. | ||
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We're running out of time ladies and gents. I can't get behind a kita lynch today. The evidence is too WIFOM-y and I haven't seen any hard proof at all of his scumminess. | ||
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And since you've thought I was scum the whole game too what did you think of glurio being the first to make a case on me all game. | ||
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Vote: Glurio BA-BAM | ||
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On March 30 2013 12:18 geript wrote: I lean null-town towards glurio. Honestly, I didn't even remember his case on you. He hasn't stuck out in my mind like Randombum or RestrainingOrder did last game. Here are the posts he's made that caught my eye when I was looking over his filter agian: Unflipped Test called town, but Glurio seems to put far more weight into roleclaims than I do. Asking how many bullets a vig has is pretty scummy though. I guess that could explain the roleblock on you last night instead of Test. Still doesn't explain where it was N1. Honestly WoS, I'd just rather vote back on you again but it does no good if I can't get support. Whatever, it's not my fault if people won't listen to me. I think where glurio names Testsubject I was actually referring to TranceStorm at the time (I said TS), so I'm not sure what that does to your read of him. Have a little faith and just try to trust me for once. You won't regret it. Nutter butter for old times' sake? | ||
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On March 30 2013 13:16 zarepath wrote: sorry been afk, had to take son to the emergency room. he's fine but I am now just stepping in to vote so mafia doesn't win with me being modkilled I am voting for glurio for the sake of consolidation -- he is the candidate my two biggest scum reads (kenpachi and ryu) aren't voting for and my biggest town reads (TPS and geript) are voting for. Agreed good to hear your kid's ok. I'm a big softie now when I hear anything about anyone's kids. Zare if you're sticking around for a lil' what are your thoughts regarding Ryu/Ken + Show Spoiler + (RYU AND KEN I JUST REALIZED THAT LOL STREETFIGHTER) Kita DYH is not off my list as of yet but I do think glurio has a better chance of flipping. I had him pegged as scum all game but after we mislynched so many townies I started to doubt myself. I'm going to trust my read on this one. | ||
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GG scum you guys did real well. | ||
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On March 30 2013 16:30 DarthPunk wrote: You should have listened to me Town. You also thought I was scum. How the hell did you know who I was going to target that night though? Before Zare every person I targeted was someone who I wasn't directly focusing on! | ||
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I'd really like some analysis of this game by anyone who can do it... DrH how did you screw up exactly and did you fix it? | ||
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On March 30 2013 16:38 DarthPunk wrote: If you are scum fake claiming that is what I would have done. Claimed a red check on the person I had just made a gigantic case on at LYLO. The fact is zarepath was so incredibly obviously town that if you had claimed a red check on him it would have meant 100% you were lying. The fact that you did two nights in a row exactly what I would have done if fake claiming as scum and why you did that is something only you can answer. Where do you get two nights in a row? I barely mentioned Vivax at all and he was killed; it just so happened that my N2/N3 checks were both killed so even if I was roleblocked it wouldn't have mattered. I'm going through the scum QT now to try and get an idea of what was going on; it seems as though there were a lot of fuckups in general from both host and night action type stuff. | ||
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On March 30 2013 17:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote: scum meant to kill thepeashooter but instead i killed darthpunk You also kept forgetting to send me RB PMs. | ||
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Any specific critiques of my terrible play anyone has? I couldn't make a read this game to save my life and I apparently have no idea how to even go about doing it..... | ||
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On March 30 2013 17:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: It's way too easy to say that scum only won cause BH spammed the thread for like a day Oh I don't think this is true, but as I mentioned to TPS during the game; this spammy type of game is all I've ever known as literally every game I have ever played (aside from one NMM) was with either Mocsta or BH or both. I think I may have partially adapted my own play as a result of this and I think from now on I'll do my best to post a lot less--- it seems that people like TPS/Wiggles can get listened to even if they're not particularly active so long as they do a good job. Alternatively I think glurio tried his hand at posting a few large cases per day but he went mostly ignored...? There may yet be something to your 'no one listens to newbies' diatribe, Geript, though I don't think it's in the way you think...it seems as though most of us newbies really don't have a good handle on the game just yet as seen by our play this game, both town and scum. Zare/me/glurio/you were notably called out multiple times as I read in the scum QT for doing odd things, while everyone seemed to be afraid of other posters who didn't do very much (at least in my eyes) at all. | ||
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On March 31 2013 00:05 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I apologize again to town for being dumb, sorry Ace. Question though, for people in general: Why is low posting activity linked with being scum? I'm not going to apologize for my activity, but it was silly seeing people go from calling me town to saying I'm scum because I couldn't post for a ~24 hour period. Somehow not posting got linked with being apathetic, which I don't believe to be true. I'm not saying that's the only reason people called me scum, but it was definitely a running theme, and I didn't really get it. It's also impossible to defend against without getting into off-topic arguments that serve no purpose. Nice to see that my reads this game ended up ok, though. Shame I screwed up so badly day 2, I think things could have been different. I ended up having a whole bunch of town reads, but not having entirely strong scum reads because I find spammy people very hard to read, and I found a lot of the posters to be very forgettable when reading through the thread, so that made things harder for me. On March 30 2013 17:52 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh I don't think this is true, but as I mentioned to TPS during the game; this spammy type of game is all I've ever known as literally every game I have ever played (aside from one NMM) was with either Mocsta or BH or both. I think I may have partially adapted my own play as a result of this and I think from now on I'll do my best to post a lot less--- it seems that people like TPS/Wiggles can get listened to even if they're not particularly active so long as they do a good job. Alternatively I think glurio tried his hand at posting a few large cases per day but he went mostly ignored...? There may yet be something to your 'no one listens to newbies' diatribe, Geript, though I don't think it's in the way you think...it seems as though most of us newbies really don't have a good handle on the game just yet as seen by our play this game, both town and scum. Zare/me/glurio/you were notably called out multiple times as I read in the scum QT for doing odd things, while everyone seemed to be afraid of other posters who didn't do very much (at least in my eyes) at all. | ||
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I think Mocsta had it when he said that I was new to DT and just didn't know who to check. I think it was a combination of me not having any solid scumreads that game and having bad luck in checking dead players 2 nights in a row. And as for my failed breadcrumbing, it would have looked more like crumbing if I didn't have to out myself after the very first one lol. | ||
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On March 31 2013 03:49 Keirathi wrote: :o P.S. I wasn't trying to rail on you with my comments about why I found it extremely unlikely you were fake claiming. Dont hate me plz. Lol not at all man, you were spot on. I can understand people's points of view I suppose towards my play; I think this game just made me realize just how much I need to change up my play and how much I need to learn about scumhunting. Maybe stepping back and shadowing for a game would help me, but I love playing way too much to step back. Keir wanna mentor me in some game we're not in together? | ||
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