The Game [N] - Page 6

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Blazinghand 03-17-2013 08:52 PM ET (US)

Mason QT between GoodKarma and Wade Fell for D1 of The Game.

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Blazinghand 03-17-2013 09:07 PM ET (US)

Okay so the hosts are dragging their feet with setting up the Mason QT so I'll drop some stuff in here since I have to step out for a moment. My power works on a per-phase basis and I was hoping to mason you for D2 but the chance you can be lynched is too high, so instead I'm masoning you for D1 so I can work with you while you're still alive.

In any case, I currently have two strong scumreads I want to push, besides my tiff with Testsubject and with TPS (which I need to step back from due to emotional issues, at least for today). I suggest we pool our thoughts and reads since you are a pretty good scumhunter when you have someone to bounce ideas off of.

Mainly I am concerned with Mr. Wiggles. He is an aggressive scumhunter and a capable asset as town, but his scum play isn't as good, and I'm pretty sure this is scum Wiggles. He didn't seriously follow-up on his attack on you, and only when prodded has he posted in the thread. When he DOES post, he composes his posts quite well-- they look and smell like cases-- but he doesn't back them up and press them the way a town player who really wanted to lynch his target would. For example, he calls up Coag's meta to defend coag, then utterly ignores meta to attack you. I jumped through all kinds of hoops to deflect it and even now he's trying to get a mislynch off on you, despite admitting you're playing to your town meta.

The other player that bothers me is Geript, but I think I might be emotionally against him and seeing things I shouldn't-- I'd like you to check my logic here. Geript has been actively opposing attempts of town to organize and scumhunt, but not in a way that relays concerns for town complacency or other dangers of VE's gambit. furthermore, he is focusing his attacks on the most productive and useful townies rather than try to develop cases or even push his main targets. Whenever there's pushback, he changes who he's attacking.

Normally I'd be on him like white on rice, but I mislynched him last game and am worried I am misreading him now.

I'm going to be rolling out an attack on Wiggles shortly. Do you have any thoughts?

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goodkarma 03-17-2013 09:25 PM ET (US)

Coaching session #2?

My first thought is I'd hesitate to bring up another lynch candidate right now. There's only like a billion out there, and we need to be striving toward consolidating our votes on (hopefully) two candidates. We're late in the cycle, so as long as you have a decent scum read on one of the candidates (Greymist, Zeriph, or Darthpunk), I would recommend you push your vote on one of them instead.

But as far as Mr. Wiggles is concerned, I don't have the meta read benefit that you do. I can look into him more in a bit, but my impression at this point is similar to your assessment insofar as I haven't seen him be very invested in this game. If he is a strong town player, then I would agree there's a decent chance he's scum.

I'll also look at Geript in a little bit.

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Blazinghand 03-17-2013 09:32 PM ET (US)

Given the difficulty in getting this town to consolidate, I'm going to be pushing on GreyMist, since he's playing so far from his normal, useful meta (and has been also unwilling to follow up on his reads). I still am not convinced by the cases on Zarepath. I think he's a flailing townie who doesn't really know how to contribute-- the recklessness in his early posts tell me this.

Regarding Wiggles, if he's town there's also a good chance he'll be shot tonight, so it could be more prudent to begin to pressure him tonight, then try to lynch him tomorrow if he's still not performing to his town standard. In any case, this QT and our ability to communicate will last until the end of today. I'm thinking of masoning with VE tonight, even though I don't have the strongest townread on him. Reason 1) if VE is town he's almost certainly the #1 mafia shot for tonight and this will be my only chance to talk to him in a QT Reason 2) if i get shot tonight ahead of a couple of the other head scumhunters, that (possibly) means that VE is scum and shot me to stop me from using my power more.

So yeah I'll get my thoughts together for a defense of zarepath and an attack on greymist.

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Blazinghand 03-17-2013 09:44 PM ET (US)

Okay, I think I slammed GM pretty hard with that case. I am not 100% on Zarepath being town but defending him a bit should help get GM lynched. I'm gonna grab some dinner then come back and see if I can change some minds.

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goodkarma 03-17-2013 10:16 PM ET (US)

Yeah there's a chance Zerepath is a noobie townie. Though I don't like how he likes to bring up his newness to the format...

I think that's a good approach to take with Mr. Wiggles. Looking at a town game, his play seems at least somewhat similar, so I would be inclined to give him time to prove if he's town or not.

Geript could be scum. But with players that play as poorly as he does I tend to like to take in the big picture before coming to conclusions. After a few flips, it should be much clearer for me.

As far as who you bring in, it's definitely up to you. But if it were me I'd focus on bringing in my strongest townreads. If you bring in a scum you'd become a high priority kill target. Just my two cents.

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Blazinghand 03-17-2013 10:45 PM ET (US)

On the other hand, I only have a couple strong townreads. I think I'll have to take a risk if I want to get rewards from this power. I get the feeling I'll be shot during the first few nights anyways, as always happens to me-- so I might as well try to make the most of my power. I still have some time to think it over.

GreYMisT's martyring isn't particularly helpful. It kind of makes me think he's town, but I know I shouldn't think he's town just because he's martyring. I personally like the guy a great deal which is part of why. If he's scum though it's a clever low-cost way to sow doubt.

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goodkarma 03-17-2013 11:11 PM ET (US)

Martyring also happens to be against the rules...

That aside, I don't see how martyring makes Greymist town. He hasn't tried at all to defend himself. Maybe if he was tired of defending endless accusations or something I could see a townie Greymist doing it, but he can't be bothered to lift a finger in his defense... It seems more like a scumtell to me for that reason.

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Blazinghand 03-17-2013 11:25 PM ET (US)

Yeah, that's a good point. I know intellectually that martyring is not a towntell obviously-- and the fact that he's not even writing cases in his final hours is the final nail in the coffin tbh. If I were town at least I'd try to get in a last word right

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goodkarma 03-18-2013 01:48 AM ET (US)

Since our QT time is almost up, let me take this opportunity to say it was a pleasure to share a QT with you again

I wish I could have been more helpful with reads but tbh with the upcoming flips imho it's most prudent to look at everyone's filters again with a fresh mind. I'm going to be especially mindful of those who ignored/disregarded Greymist as a lynch candidate this cycle (I'm assuming he's going to flip scum). People like Hopeless and VE come to mind in that regard.

The lack of resistance from Grey could also be from a pre-planned bus from scum. Something also I'm going to need to think about. It's a theory that at least would partially explain why Grey would ACTIVELY be in thread while not defending himself...

Anyway, best of luck with your next guy. It's been fun

Blazinghand 03-18-2013 01:51 AM ET (US)

You too GK. I suspect there's some possibility you'll be up as a lynch candidate for D2 but realistically speaking most people have figured out you're town by now. Once I see this flip and the flips from night kills I'll probably be going for Mr. wiggles (unless something weird happens) or geript.

Keep on scumhunting.

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Oatsmaster 03-18-2013 07:06 AM ET (US)

hey

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VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 12:33 PM ET (US)

Well shit sir. Another Nightmare? Perhaps one that's not quite so town-aligned? You talkin about shooting me at the end of this conversation? You talkin about ending my life BH?

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VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 12:36 PM ET (US)

I'm confident DP is scum - the way he reacted to my case (strict OMGUS) is a town tell with newer players but not with DP I think. That guy is smart and I think his reaction to my case was an act.

Look at the way he defended it. He never explained proper town motivations or tried to make me understand his point, he immediately was all "Did you hear what VE said?! He said townies never pressure people!"

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VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 12:40 PM ET (US)

But I have nothing concrete on him. Only my case and my feels. :/

You've been very very absent from the thread, because this happened at night I have to assume that you didn't mason anyone during the day. What's going on in the would of Blzinghand?

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Blazinghand 03-18-2013 12:46 PM ET (US)

It's almost certain that one of us will be shot tonight, so this is likely our only chance to talk. I'm a masoner who can mason a new person every phase, and I cannot remason someone I've already masoned. During D1 I masoned with GK, which is part of why I became very sure he was town. I'm reasonably confident you're town, but if you're scum well you were probably gonna shoot me tonight anyways.

In any case, I currently have two strong scumreads I want to push. I'll admit I never super looked into DP since I was more focused on other candidates for D1, so I'll add him to my "stuff to post just before daybreak" list, but right now I'm more worried about Geript and TPS. I've talked a lot about TPS in thread already but mainly I'm concerned about his attempts to _look_ like he's contributing without actually doing it. I'm like 90% sure his "anger" at my spamming is faked given that you had the same filter length as me at the time and his response to it was to just quote a bunch of my posts. He's done a pretty slick job of not contributing to the game and looking like an "emotional townie"

Geript might be just me being mad, but it really just looks like he's attacking anything constructive that tries to happen. I still don't like his RNG discussion at the start of the day, but even ignoring that, he never made a really good case for why zare was scum other than "he worded things differently this game", and he switched to GM when the heat was on. What really makes me think he's scum though is his weird attack on me at the start of this night. Now MAYBE Geript is just butthurt because people didn't reread his filter in LX but I think he's legitimately trying to disrupt town from being useful.

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Blazinghand 03-18-2013 12:48 PM ET (US)

Also FWIW I've been skiing this weekend which is why I've been only really posting between 6 pm and midnight every day. Don't expect me to be mentioning IRL excuses in thread though, I have way more balls than that.

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VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 12:52 PM ET (US)

I don't wanna run with that geript read. I want to engage him on his actual suspects, without fear of him losing his shit and looking even scummier if he's town. Like...if he's town, we gotta handle with care because you and I both are gonna probably think he's scum. I want to engage him personally on his reads, and we'll see what we see then.

TPS I can run with. I didn't like that post quoting your posts at all, and it didn't make any sense singling you out.

So you can pick a new target every cycle? Every cycle? Why didn't you pick me during the longer cycle? Why did you pick GK for the first cycle?

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Blazinghand 03-18-2013 12:58 PM ET (US)

The problem with town Geript is he'll act like Geript in LX under pressure and become useless and probably mislynched. It's frustrating that that's the man's meta, but that's what it is. I don't want to let that dissuade me from pushing him though or else he's some horrible unlynchable scum player who is worthless as town. I'll finish up a case on TPS a bit later today to share. Ideally I'll chuck it up just before daybreak.

I picked GK about halfway through the first day because I had a townread on him. If I mason a scum player, the chance of me getting shot goes up a lot, and I know GK pretty well-- he was, and is, almost certainly town. I'm masoning with you tonight because if scum is smart at least one of us won't be around tomorrow.

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VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 01:00 PM ET (US)

AND you can't remason. I'm offended. Officially.

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Blazinghand 03-18-2013 01:00 PM ET (US)

Like, you get why the "Geript might lose his shit" argument isn't reasonable right. The guy can't just hold our analysis hostage to a threat of flipping out

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VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 01:01 PM ET (US)
Stop that line of thinking. I'm not saying don't pressure him. I'm saying don't out and out call him a scum read or he'll be all "WELP THATS FUCKING GAME CAUSE VETS THINK I'M SCUM"

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VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 01:02 PM ET (US)
I'm saying give me a bit first. Let me talk to the guy. THEN we'll talk about geript scum, and if necessary, bring it to the thread in full force.

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Blazinghand 03-18-2013 01:03 PM ET (US)

Also as a secondary scumread: Vivax. This whole "yeah I'm gonna be shot for my good play, please protect me medic" thing really rubs me the wrong way. Not even countering the scumslip (which anyone could make), he hasn't been pushing a real town-motivated objective for most of D1. This is admittedly a softer read than I'd like but something intuitively is telling me that Vivax is scum, and I do well when I listen to that voice in my head.

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Blazinghand 03-18-2013 01:04 PM ET (US)

Okay I'll lay off Geript for now, that's reasonable enough. We can goodcop-badcop this shit

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VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 01:05 PM ET (US)

Yeah Vivax seems to be playing more sane this game than usual too...that's not a scumtell for him though is it?

e: like the rules have manner laws and anti-spam laws in place. Could he not just be trying to abide?
Edited 03-18-2013 01:09 PM

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VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 01:09 PM ET (US)
re: Vivax

tell me what you think of the last paragraph of this post.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18064964

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VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 01:11 PM ET (US)

Also I feel like this post is dissonant.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18078961

He states that he thinks "scum would have no need to switch off to a mislynch" and then concludes that two people who switched from DP to GM are scum.

At least, that's what it looks like to me. I just skimmed it because I'm trying to work fast before I go to work. XD
Edited 03-18-2013 01:12 PM

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VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 01:40 PM ET (US)

Hrm @ Mocsta immediately jokingly buddying me.

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Blazinghand 03-18-2013 01:51 PM ET (US)

You already pointed out that post in-thread. Vivax either is scum or has no idea who his scumreads really are, since he claims scum are pushing a wagon but is marking people not on said wagon as scum. That's definitely a scumtell because a town player would probably remember who his own scumreads are, whereas a scum player would have trouble keeping his lies straight. It's the same thing that happens in his post-vote analysis. Basically, Vivax doesn't have consistent scumreads, and his analysis isn't pointing at the people who he says is scum. It's like he has a set of reads he feels some need to push, then writes analysis that isn't really related, rather than having a thought process that connects scumhunting to scumreads.

Basically a town player wouldn't make this mistake because he'd be aware of who his scumreads actually are.

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VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 01:54 PM ET (US)

I did point it out in thread, but to my knowledge you never commented.

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Blazinghand 03-18-2013 01:56 PM ET (US)

Fair enough. Whatever case is made against Vivax though should hinge on his town/scum mentality and not on the "Scumslip" about Yamato77 imo. Scumslips generally aren't actually real.

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VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 01:57 PM ET (US)

No, they're very real. Very. But that Vivax thing is not a scumslip.

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VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 05:28 PM ET (US)

I'm going to assume that you're not a Nightmare...because your communication only lasts a phase. Why has GK not claimed you masoning with him was that at your request?

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Blazinghand 03-18-2013 05:34 PM ET (US)

Yeah I didn't want it to be confirmed I was a blue. If you want you can ask him to confirm it and I'm sure he will but ideally we don't let scum know this

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VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 05:52 PM ET (US)

You're here and not commenting on the case I'm making against Ryu in the thread. Care to comment here if you're trying to let it develop organically in the thread or something? Ryu is essentially claiming scum in the thread from my perspective.

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Blazinghand 03-18-2013 06:02 PM ET (US)

I'm playing dota

ryu looks like shit, we lynch him tmr imo. his claim that he wasn't "afk" or whatever during the development of the greymist case is crap. weird contradictions

also evidence for DP being scum but wont' comment on assoc between unflipped, will wait to see ryu flip

will write more once i'm done doating

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VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 06:04 PM ET (US)

I wish I could DOTA. *dustkick*

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Blazinghand 03-18-2013 06:04 PM ET (US)

alt theory: ryu geript zarepath scumteam, but I think DP was under more pressure than zare so this theory less plausib. ryu wanted to setup a GM lynch then hang back and see if it got steam without comitting, which is why his case is weak and explains thread absence after inital bad setup

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VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 06:06 PM ET (US)

Suppose Zare picked up steam? I neglected to comment on Zare what if I had commented and the wagon swung?

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Blazinghand 03-18-2013 06:07 PM ET (US)

regardless the common factor here is Ryu = scum in either theory, so we lynch him first

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VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 06:26 PM ET (US)

WTF? I don't even care about association theories. LOL

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Blazinghand 03-18-2013 06:30 PM ET (US)

I don't understand the Zare question then. Overall the ryu thing seems pretty straightforwards: he shifted stance on sandro, he let the wagon push itself, and has given contradictory reads and not backed anything up. How does Zare or you commenting on wagon swings have to do with that?

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VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 06:34 PM ET (US)

I was spitballing with you but you stated it as reasoning for wanting to lynch Ryu. For my part I just don't care what that says about anyone else yet. XD

So I'm not crazy then? That's logical and I'm not losing my shit here?

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Blazinghand 03-18-2013 06:51 PM ET (US)

You're entirely non-crazy. I'll slap down a patented (link)-filled blazinghand style case on Ryu before the end of the night and see how he reacts to it.

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VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 06:59 PM ET (US)

To be frank you're entirely non-existant this game as compared to LX. I'm not really concerned about geript suspecting you because honestly before this conversation I was suspicious of you too. Being in a QT with someone pretty much excuses that though.

Can you go into detail about your read on TPS?

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Blazinghand 03-19-2013 12:21 AM ET (US)

Fair enough. I'll be responding in thread. You wouldn't try to pull this as scum, so at least there's that. I don't think outing me as a Mason is the right move. DrH and Oats have both repeatedly privately threatened me with modkill due to spamming, which is why I have decreased my post count.

The thoughts in here if I get shot tonight will corroborate your story that I did in fact mason you.

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VisceraEyes 03-19-2013 12:40 AM ET (US)

It's the right move. If you're town you'll be able to prove it. I just don't think so based on the contents of this QT. And because you're "actively decreasing your post count" that's all I have to go on. Sorry dude.

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Blazinghand 03-19-2013 12:44 AM ET (US)

TBH it's probably what I'd do if the situations are reversed. I'll never admit to setup speculation in public, but given a flipped mason, there's higher-than-average chance of other masons being scum. But at least, if I should die tonight for some reason, don't let geript walk free. That miserable cunt is laughing at me, VE. Laughing.

VisceraEyes 03-19-2013 12:55 AM ET (US)
You will be avenged.