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On March 20 2013 04:29 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 04:16 Coagulation wrote:
hey guys reading up on thread now. Feel free to ask me any questions.
peashooter spent a good amount of energy effort trying to rally a lynch on me. Im pretty much the easy lynch in every game so its not uncommon for scum to try and push town into lynching me. Its strange to me that there are so many people who have put me in as a town read already. I dont think I should be a town read for anyone just yet. but its a good thing at any rate cause im town.
I wouldnt mind having peashooter lynched just on the basis that he was willing to let town run in circles over his identity while saying nothing. that seems fairly anti town. like hes trying to milk the speculation for all the chaos it can possibly generate. Arguably trolling the thread has the exact same effect as what you're accusing Peashooter of Coagulation. The difference is that he was trying to do something about you while you were just trolling along. Only now that he's finally put an end to the speculation have you tried to do anything but exacerbate the speculation. I'd like to hear your thoughts on Wade Fell, Mr. Wiggles and Ryu please.
im not exacerbating shit bitch.
Wade fell im leaning town on. there seems to be scummier people than him.
Mr.wiggles seems to be a pretty good candidate for scum. hes usually a heavy contributor but this game he has been strategically absent.
Ryu I have no idea. null probably.
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Yeah TPS I was trying to find a way to like you because your concerns seemed to line up with mine but you haven't contributed anything of note in ages and you don't seem particularly interested in doing anything other than throwing people off of your case.
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On March 20 2013 04:22 goodkarma wrote:A little elaboration on where you now stand on your earlier reads would be nice.: Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 02:19 Coagulation wrote:
glurio and DA will probably be who I focus on getting lynched day 2. I havnt really seen anything that makes me feel like VE is town so far either wich is uncommon going into night 1. This late in the game he usually has more town cred built. wiggles is also another player I have a null on but would expect to be feeling town on at this point.
I still wouldnt mind a DA lynch. he seems like the most likely to flip scum of all the day 1 lynch candidates to me.
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Thepeashooter your a bit of a twat you know that?
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VE, what is the name of your role? You never said, you just claimed Vet.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 20 2013 04:51 zarepath wrote:
VE, what is the name of your role? You never said, you just claimed Vet.
What's the purpose of this question? Don't you believe the claim?
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Coag who is DA?
And also I've seen nothing but belligerence from you in the thread so far; how does that make you any different from TPS?
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I don't understand why we are scrutinizing Wade Fell and not even glancing over at VisceraEyes.
On March 19 2013 13:03 VisceraEyes wrote:
He has done nothing this game. The last game I played with him he aggressively pushed his reads and pressured suspects. He's done nothing like that in this thread. He showed early aggression based on weak reasoning, but all he's done since is defend GK. Literally.
There is nothing wrong with defending town reads who are potential lynch candidates. To say that "all he's done" is defend goodkarma may be true, but this point doesn't take into full consideration the context of the action. Many people were discussing goodkarma and deciding whether he should be the lynch or not, he himself included.
On March 17 2013 13:46 VisceraEyes wrote:
##Vote: goodkarma
On March 18 2013 04:11 VisceraEyes wrote:
For the record, I'm still very much good with a GK lynch. I just find myself more sure about DarthPunk having filtered him and thought about it.
There should be absolutely no issue with Wade Fell defending whom he thinks is a town read, unless VisceraEyes suspects that both goodkarma and Wade Fell are scum, and that Wade Fell is defending goodkarma using fabricated evidence. Nothing in VisceraEyes' case indicates that he believes this, so there is no town alibi for saying this. Not only that, but a glance at Wade Fell's filter shows his interaction with TestSubject893 and ThePeashooter, which VisceraEyes totally ignores, even though earlier on in the day he acknowledges' one of Wade Fell's posts on ThePeashooter.
On March 18 2013 00:21 VisceraEyes wrote:Re: ThePeashooterShow nested quote +On March 17 2013 16:17 ThePeashooter wrote:On March 17 2013 15:58 DoYouHas wrote:On March 17 2013 15:50 ThePeashooter wrote:
Wadefall, consolidate your shit. I played one game of dota and somehow 80 fucking posts popped up and you are nearly a quarter of them. Nothing demotivates me more than a game that gets spammed to shit. I was really happy we weren't heading for a 100 page Day 1. You are just going to have to get over it. We are at a point where we can actively discuss the merits of cases and wagons instead of just hoping that a brilliantly written case will gather enough sheep to lynch scum. It's a good thing. I have no issue with posting content and I never will, even if it means 100 pages in a day. My issue is with posts like this comprising 25% of the last 80 posts. + Show Spoiler [It's fucking long] +On March 17 2013 14:14 Wade Fell wrote:
why does everyone in this game and last game think I have like this massive ego
I just _happen_ to always be right, it doesn't mean I have a big head about it On March 17 2013 14:19 Wade Fell wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 14:18 TestSubject893 wrote:On March 17 2013 14:14 VisceraEyes wrote:It has nothing to do with my role and everything to do with finding and destroying the scum.  So you wouldn't mind if people apply without the bold ## command then? We're in a normal game, it's not like the ## command does anything On March 17 2013 14:20 Wade Fell wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 14:10 TestSubject893 wrote:
BH, I'd appriciate it if you boosted your ego through winning instead of making easy meta calls.
Gee I'm sorry how many scum did I lynch during the first 2 days of the last game On March 17 2013 14:22 Wade Fell wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 14:21 VisceraEyes wrote:On March 17 2013 14:20 Wade Fell wrote:On March 17 2013 14:10 TestSubject893 wrote:
BH, I'd appriciate it if you boosted your ego through winning instead of making easy meta calls.
Gee I'm sorry how many scum did I lynch during the first 2 days of the last game To be fair, I lynched scum D1 last game. You helped, and your support was appreciated. Ok yes technically it was you, but I would have done the same if town elected me. On March 17 2013 14:23 Wade Fell wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 14:22 TestSubject893 wrote:On March 17 2013 14:20 Wade Fell wrote:On March 17 2013 14:10 TestSubject893 wrote:
BH, I'd appriciate it if you boosted your ego through winning instead of making easy meta calls.
Gee I'm sorry how many scum did I lynch during the first 2 days of the last game Gee I'm sorry that I easily won because only 2 people in the town knew how to try. It's not easy being one of the 2 On March 17 2013 14:24 Wade Fell wrote:
man testsubject ok let me play it straight for you
oatsmaster fucked up my night check and I still got 2 scum lynched (ok like 1.5 whatever) and when I died town had it in the bag. You lucked into victory
lucked On March 17 2013 14:25 Wade Fell wrote:
Also testsubject for a guy who's read the thread and can only say "geript and zare are candidates" you sure talk a lot of smack On March 17 2013 14:27 Wade Fell wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 14:25 VisceraEyes wrote:
Oh don't be like that BH Test did exactly what he had to do to win. Bitter. I am disappoint. I'm just mad at oats really On March 17 2013 14:35 Wade Fell wrote:
I mean, I _assume_ a "lynch preference" is the same as a scumread, unless of course he is scum and would prefer to lynch town On March 17 2013 14:42 Wade Fell wrote:
Testsubject is basically just making half-assed attacks on the D1 lynchbait kk On March 17 2013 14:45 Wade Fell wrote:Yeah I gotta admit the new GK post isn't super sexy :| but GK is not a sexy man. contrast his "promised post" in NMMXXIV though (link) and it's like exactly the friggen same. This is town GK. I'll even quote his post so you can see it and I like never do that + Show Spoiler +On August 16 2012 15:24 goodkarma wrote:Okay, my long promised "case post." I'm sorry for the hype, as this is going to be short and possibly a bit disappointing for those that were anticipating it + Show Spoiler +(like latest Batman movie disappointing  ) . But here's my case. It's going to be short and sweet.: A big part of day one is establishing a good future town atmosphere. To that end, there are several people that are not participating as they should. The guiltiest of these are: Jhuyt and Golbat. Jhuyt:Jhuyt is especially suspicious to me right now. I have read the recent case presented against him by Archrun above. I tend to agree heavily with his first point: about Jhuyt's experience with Solar's post history on TL being consistent with his posting. I'm not ready to call Jhuyt a liar, but claiming Solar is troll/emotional generally on TL requires further explanation. Upon looking through some of his posts, I haven't seen this to be the case. If he is lying, this is enough reason to lynch him. Now the other part of Jhuyt that is scummy is how wishy-washy he is in the limited amount of content he has posted. Let's look at his latest post. In bold are his current "reads" on certain people. Notice how hesitant he is to take a stance on anyone.: Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 20:18 Jhuyt wrote:
Hmm, you're right, I should try to be more helpful.
On Solar: This is just how he is in general from what I've seen on TL, so I don't have anything there.
On Shady: Shady tries to control the game, which is an act that I don't often see in normal townies, I've most often encountered it when a scum tries to make everybody think he's the sheriff. It is, however, a game of high risk and relies heavily on the actual sheriff being useless. He might be the sheriff as well, and this is why I think the first day is kinda silly, I don't know what to think solely based on his posts, they seem consistent.
I still think that YourHarry is something scummy simply because his posting behavior is strange, on everybody else, I need more evidence before making up my mind. Also, he is currently the winner of the "lurker prize." It is clear from what he has contributed that he has little interest in scum hunting. Therefore: ##Vote: JyuhtConsider it both a vote based on scum behavior and on "lurker policy." In the absence of a stronger scum read my vote goes on him. Golbat:I expected more from you. I know that it really sucks being mislynched day 1, and I haven't ruled out your lurkiness as being from over-reacting to your poor play in XXII by playing almost the exact opposite of how you played then. But you have to step up and continue posting your reads. What got you in trouble then was vote-swapping without giving much explanation. As long as you give an explanation for your reads, don't be afraid to FoS and vote. What you're doing now makes you look just as scummy as how you looked in XXII. ##FoS: GolbatYourHarry:I haven't forgotten about you. However poorly I feel you'd be playing as town by playing the way you are right now, I can't say it would be inconsistent with what I'd expect based on your previous play. I'm not un-FoS-ing you but I'm not ready to vote you as my top scum read right now either. is it shit? yes. But that was town GK, and this is town GK On March 17 2013 14:46 Wade Fell wrote:
Like look he LITERALLY calls golbat scummy for the same reason he votes Jyuht. That's not GK setting up a voteswap, that's just how the man thinks. On March 17 2013 14:48 Wade Fell wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 14:46 VisceraEyes wrote:
Wait wait that doesn't look the same at all. He gives a shitty summary of their play in this game and in that post he goes into detail explaining why he thinks the way he does. Ok yes in NMMXXIV he is more legit. He talks a bit about the play of the people, he's less shitty. But the idea that GK is bad because he's not evenly applying his criteria for scumminess, or that he's scum for having an easy swap is not correct. On March 17 2013 14:49 Wade Fell wrote:
I will note one deviation from meta, though, and that is that town GK typically is asking questions of people and prodding a lot in thread, and this one is not. Still, though, his slow-movingness indicates town GK to me and not the quick-drawing scum GK from LVII On March 17 2013 14:53 Wade Fell wrote:
:|
I don't like to think I'm wrong about this kind of thing. GK are you here On March 17 2013 14:56 Wade Fell wrote:
Ok here's what I'm going to do
i still think GK isn't scum and testsubject IS scum. I know it's privileging the hypothesis but all the evidence around testsubject points to him being scum, and GK seems off but not entirely off. I don't want to be wrong, but if i'm wrong I want to be voting the right guy
So I'm going to go fluff my komodo dragon's feathers for a bit and think on this. Even though GK's statements all seem scummy his TONE sounds like town GK, and yes I know that's not going to convince anyone but it has me convinced right now. I'll figure out what his deal is and why this is town GK and i'll show you all who's right and who's wrong
testsubject be a man and post some serious case rather than flailing around like you are now if you ever want me not to lynch you today
On March 17 2013 14:57 Wade Fell wrote:
tl;dr: I'm right and you're all wrong, I'm just not sure how yet. I will find a way On March 17 2013 14:58 Wade Fell wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 14:57 GreYMisT wrote:On March 17 2013 14:45 Wade Fell wrote:Yeah I gotta admit the new GK post isn't super sexy :| but GK is not a sexy man. contrast his "promised post" in NMMXXIV though (link) and it's like exactly the friggen same. This is town GK. I'll even quote his post so you can see it and I like never do that + Show Spoiler +On August 16 2012 15:24 goodkarma wrote:Okay, my long promised "case post." I'm sorry for the hype, as this is going to be short and possibly a bit disappointing for those that were anticipating it + Show Spoiler +(like latest Batman movie disappointing ) . But here's my case. It's going to be short and sweet.: A big part of day one is establishing a good future town atmosphere. To that end, there are several people that are not participating as they should. The guiltiest of these are: Jhuyt and Golbat. Jhuyt:Jhuyt is especially suspicious to me right now. I have read the recent case presented against him by Archrun above. I tend to agree heavily with his first point: about Jhuyt's experience with Solar's post history on TL being consistent with his posting. I'm not ready to call Jhuyt a liar, but claiming Solar is troll/emotional generally on TL requires further explanation. Upon looking through some of his posts, I haven't seen this to be the case. If he is lying, this is enough reason to lynch him. Now the other part of Jhuyt that is scummy is how wishy-washy he is in the limited amount of content he has posted. Let's look at his latest post. In bold are his current "reads" on certain people. Notice how hesitant he is to take a stance on anyone.: Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 20:18 Jhuyt wrote:
Hmm, you're right, I should try to be more helpful.
On Solar: This is just how he is in general from what I've seen on TL, so I don't have anything there.
On Shady: Shady tries to control the game, which is an act that I don't often see in normal townies, I've most often encountered it when a scum tries to make everybody think he's the sheriff. It is, however, a game of high risk and relies heavily on the actual sheriff being useless. He might be the sheriff as well, and this is why I think the first day is kinda silly, I don't know what to think solely based on his posts, they seem consistent.
I still think that YourHarry is something scummy simply because his posting behavior is strange, on everybody else, I need more evidence before making up my mind. Also, he is currently the winner of the "lurker prize." It is clear from what he has contributed that he has little interest in scum hunting. Therefore: ##Vote: JyuhtConsider it both a vote based on scum behavior and on "lurker policy." In the absence of a stronger scum read my vote goes on him. Golbat:I expected more from you. I know that it really sucks being mislynched day 1, and I haven't ruled out your lurkiness as being from over-reacting to your poor play in XXII by playing almost the exact opposite of how you played then. But you have to step up and continue posting your reads. What got you in trouble then was vote-swapping without giving much explanation. As long as you give an explanation for your reads, don't be afraid to FoS and vote. What you're doing now makes you look just as scummy as how you looked in XXII. ##FoS: GolbatYourHarry:I haven't forgotten about you. However poorly I feel you'd be playing as town by playing the way you are right now, I can't say it would be inconsistent with what I'd expect based on your previous play. I'm not un-FoS-ing you but I'm not ready to vote you as my top scum read right now either. is it shit? yes. But that was town GK, and this is town GK They are the same structurally, because that's simply how he posts and thinks. That will usually not change between being town and scum. However, a difference I can note is how much more specific he is here, and how he cites specific examples, and tries to convince others that this is the correct choice. In his current cases and thread presnse, I do not get that feeling from him. I get the "Look at my vote and contribution!" feeling :| GK this would be a great time to rise to your own defense or something On March 17 2013 14:58 Wade Fell wrote:
cause I got nothin
really On March 17 2013 15:05 Wade Fell wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 15:02 TestSubject893 wrote:On March 17 2013 14:46 TestSubject893 wrote:On March 17 2013 14:42 VisceraEyes wrote:On March 17 2013 14:40 TestSubject893 wrote:Ok, VE, I can go into a little detail. geript:The RNG stuff doesn't seem very indicative to me, but the tarot card speculation rubbed me the wrong way. It seems like he's posting just to post. I really don't think anyone could think that speculating about similarities to tarot cards could get us anything, so it stuck out to me as scummy. zare:Zare's post here basically just seems like a summary. It struck me as an attempt to just blend into the crowd. He doesn't add anything to the discussion really, but takes 3 paragraphs to do it. Very much a feigning contribution kind of post. If I had to pick right this second I'd vote to lynch zare. How about you give me your thoughts on the overwhelming vote leader right now, GoodKarma? Thank you for providing your lynch preferences, but those points seem a little weak and the case on GK grows stronger with every post he makes. I'd like your thoughts on why the majority of voters are wrong and we should vote for one of your guys. Honestly, I totally null on him right now, not because of anything he's posted but because I don't really remember any of his posts and didn't take any notes on him. I guess I'll take this opportunity to look closer and get back to you. Ok, so I was looking through his posts, feeling pretty good about him, saying to myself "I could see him being town. I'm sceptical of all this SAST stuff too.", but then BAM. On March 17 2013 14:09 goodkarma wrote:
I would say that my stance on VE has been that he was being silly. That coag attempted to go into the group though convinced me that I needed to be sure it didn't gain momentum as it was not a very pro-town plan. I'm not against "town circles," however, if they're done right.
This doesn't make sense as town to me. Even if he thinks its dumb "being sure it doesn't get momentum" is a waste of time for anyone but scum. Almost as much of a waste of time as your setup speculation on Ve's role in a normal game On March 17 2013 15:14 Wade Fell wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 15:09 VisceraEyes wrote:On March 17 2013 15:05 Wade Fell wrote:On March 17 2013 15:02 TestSubject893 wrote:On March 17 2013 14:46 TestSubject893 wrote:On March 17 2013 14:42 VisceraEyes wrote:On March 17 2013 14:40 TestSubject893 wrote:Ok, VE, I can go into a little detail. geript:The RNG stuff doesn't seem very indicative to me, but the tarot card speculation rubbed me the wrong way. It seems like he's posting just to post. I really don't think anyone could think that speculating about similarities to tarot cards could get us anything, so it stuck out to me as scummy. zare:Zare's post here basically just seems like a summary. It struck me as an attempt to just blend into the crowd. He doesn't add anything to the discussion really, but takes 3 paragraphs to do it. Very much a feigning contribution kind of post. If I had to pick right this second I'd vote to lynch zare. How about you give me your thoughts on the overwhelming vote leader right now, GoodKarma? Thank you for providing your lynch preferences, but those points seem a little weak and the case on GK grows stronger with every post he makes. I'd like your thoughts on why the majority of voters are wrong and we should vote for one of your guys. Honestly, I totally null on him right now, not because of anything he's posted but because I don't really remember any of his posts and didn't take any notes on him. I guess I'll take this opportunity to look closer and get back to you. Ok, so I was looking through his posts, feeling pretty good about him, saying to myself "I could see him being town. I'm sceptical of all this SAST stuff too.", but then BAM. On March 17 2013 14:09 goodkarma wrote:
I would say that my stance on VE has been that he was being silly. That coag attempted to go into the group though convinced me that I needed to be sure it didn't gain momentum as it was not a very pro-town plan. I'm not against "town circles," however, if they're done right.
This doesn't make sense as town to me. Even if he thinks its dumb "being sure it doesn't get momentum" is a waste of time for anyone but scum. Almost as much of a waste of time as your setup speculation on Ve's role in a normal game Do you disagree with his point? What town motivation is there to "make sure it doesn't get momentum"? If it's a waste of time, it's MY waste of time, not his. Commenting on it and discrediting it does nothing to find scum, especially if he doesn't find me scummy for it. Yeah okay his point is bad, and even pushing it wasn't helping any conceivable town agenda, even assuming he thought it was true :| On March 17 2013 15:14 Wade Fell wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 15:11 TestSubject893 wrote:On March 17 2013 14:53 GreYMisT wrote:
TestSubject really hasn't said much of anything (hypocritical from me right?). The main thing that stands out to me about him is that a significant exchange between him and Wade Fell took place regarding punishing bad town play. TestSubject supports this argument with his main entrance post, calling for pressure against Coag. However, He doesnt attempt to pressure him at all, and really fails to significantly mention him.
I can see where he is coming from with his read on zare, but overally Test doesnt seem like the best lynch candidate to me at the moment. Pressuring Coag is moot as long as BH is willing to stick his neck out for him, and will be even less effective now that we've vocallized that we're not all that serious about following through with a lynch on him. I don't have as many opinions as others because I'm 16 hours behind everyone else on this game due to my internet being out....
On March 17 2013 14:57 Wade Fell wrote:
tl;dr: I'm right and you're all wrong, I'm just not sure how yet. I will find a way How does this make sense as town? Read the longer post. Every single one of these posts was within an hour and I didn't even select every single post within that specific hour. At some point in life I might actually have to read the guys filter or rest of the damn game. Wade makes an excellent point about this post. Unlike Ryu who comments on the matter and lets it pass, TPS goes to the trouble of finding and quoting all of these Wade posts he didn't like. Why? What's the point? They're already in the thread once and he's bitching about it. WHY PUT THEM IN THE THREAD AGAIN? ##Unvote: goodkarma
##Vote: ThePeashooter
You don't say that someone makes an excellent point, and then totally ignore it when evaluating their play. But that is what VisceraEyes tries to do. He sweeps away something that he himself called "an excellent point" and misconstrues Wade Fell as wasting all his time D1 defending goodkarma, which isn't even scum indicative as his posting shows. Additionally you can see in this post that VisceraEyes drops his initial case on goodkarma. The vote switch indicates that whatever point Wade Fell brought up was strong enough to pursue than his original case on goodkarma. Therefore, the magnitude of VisceraEyes' misinterpretation is greater for he is a hypocrite in saying that Wade Fell did nothing, when he himself asserts that Wade Fell made an excellent point.
On March 19 2013 13:03 VisceraEyes wrote:
But that's not all he's done. Wade Fell is also a mason. I know this because he's been masoned to me all during this phase. He claims to have been masoned to GK during the day. All he's done in this mason convo has been push his same weak arguments he made in the thread at first, then just passively agree with anything I said. He wasn't trying to divine my alignment. And if his posts are to be believe he didn't mason GK to divine his alignment either. He's been masoning town-reads. To what end? He's not bringing anything new to the table in mason chats, that's for sure.
Again, more misinformation. Here VisceraEyes tries to push the idea that Wade Fell's usage of the mason role is indicative of him being scum. He asserts that the mason role should be used to determine alignment first and foremost. Well that's blatantly wrong. There is nothing wrong, and in fact there is something very valuable with masoning a town read in order to bounce around thoughts and ideas. Wade Fell himself explains his mason choice:
On March 19 2013 13:39 Wade Fell wrote:
As an aside, another reason I masoned GK is that I've interacted with him in QTs before when I coached him, and I knew I'd be able to get a perfect read on him from doing so, as well as help his scumhunting.
How is that not a sensible response? It helps Wade Fell solidify his read on goodkarma, and also helps direct goodkarma's scumhunting as Wade Fell acted as his coach. There is very good townie motivations to mason a town read. However VisceraEyes tries to push the idea that Wade Fell used his role poorly and therefore must be scum. Let's explore that next.
On March 19 2013 13:03 VisceraEyes wrote:
This leads me to conclude that Wade Fell is some sort of scum mason attempting to manipulate townies. He claims he can mason a different person every phase, and phase one he chose GK and phase 2 he chose me.
Ok. VisceraEyes' hypothesis is that Wade Fell is a scum mason trying to manipulate townies. Where in this post does VisceraEyes consider goodkarma as scum? He doesn't. Let me hash that out again. In the starting sections of my post I demonstrated that VisceraEyes considered goodkarma scum. Additionally he disparaged Wade Fell's play in defending goodkarma (another contradiction), but now he is trying to push Wade Fell as scum on the basis that he is masoning goodkarma, which is one of his town reads? How is Wade Fell masoning goodkarma supporting evidence that Wade Fell is a scum mason attempting to manipulate townies? It isn't. VisceraEyes is getting muddled up in his pile of lies. Either you think goodkarma is town and that Wade Fell's mason choice was to manipulate him, or you think goodkarma is scum and that Wade Fell fake masoned a scum partner. What VisceraEyes is doing is calling both goodkarma and Wade Fell scum, and using "town goodkarma" as evidence of Wade Fell scum. Only scum do this.
On March 19 2013 13:03 VisceraEyes wrote:
So WF is scum. Talk about it.
On March 19 2013 13:13 VisceraEyes wrote:
I don't think I'm allowed, which is part of why I revealed him. Without the ability to post the mason logs, it seems weak anyway and it's a large portion of what makes him scummy to me.
So VisceraEyes admits himself that his case seems weak without the mason logs. However, once Wade Fell releases the mason logs, he doesn't talk about the content at all! If the strongest body of evidence comes from the mason logs, and they were released, wouldn't you go in and use that as evidence to convince people that Wade Fell is scum? Well VisceraEyes doesn't, because there is nothing that alignment telling in there. He himself says Wade Fell doesn't push his ideas in the QT but he himself presents very flimsy contributions himself. Where is his push of DarthPunk? He called him scummy all D1, left his vote on DarthPunk and checked out, and has picked up some new targets.
On March 18 2013 04:00 VisceraEyes wrote:
VOTE FOR DARTHPUNK HE SCUM YO On March 18 2013 04:11 VisceraEyes wrote:
For the record, I'm still very much good with a GK lynch. I just find myself more sure about DarthPunk having filtered him and thought about it.
No more comments on DarthPunk. No more comments on goodkarma. Just hopping along wagons when he can, and dropping them without explanation. His original case on DarthPunk was very shoddy. Additionally is the nonsense about him taking a hit.
On March 19 2013 17:09 Ace wrote:
Why would you claim Vet though as Town? Even if the Scum clearly know they shot you, they have no idea how the hit failed. Roleclaiming serves no purpose here.
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On March 20 2013 04:52 Vivax wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 20 2013 04:51 zarepath wrote:
VE, what is the name of your role? You never said, you just claimed Vet. What's the purpose of this question? Don't you believe the claim?
Zare is scum rolecop imo
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Ah ... forgot to add this.
Vote: VisceraEyes
When I get time I'll be catching up more on ThePeashooter business but I want people to look into VisceraEyes in the meantime.
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I believe it for now, but there's no reason to not ask for information that can only help town at this point. It's not as if mafia will learn from the name of his role what his power is, because he's already claimed.
I just found it odd he didn't say it when the other blue claim did, and can't think of how revealing it would hurt town.
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I have another theory: OP says your win condition can change. Maybe scum needs to know the role name of the player to convert him to them.
Or scum can kill a guy if they know the name like TPS said early.
Keep it to yourself.
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On March 20 2013 04:55 zarepath wrote:
I believe it for now, but there's no reason to not ask for information that can only help town at this point. It's not as if mafia will learn from the name of his role what his power is, because he's already claimed.
I just found it odd he didn't say it when the other blue claim did, and can't think of how revealing it would hurt town.
How exactly would it HELP town?
This looks REAL scummy zare.
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On March 20 2013 04:53 WaveofShadow wrote:
Coag who is DA?
And also I've seen nothing but belligerence from you in the thread so far; how does that make you any different from TPS?
sorry I ment DP
And Im not bringing up conflict. TPS is the one that keeps taking shots at me that have no relevence to the fucking game. Like Yeah greymist gave up because im a shit town player. How is that fucking relevent at all to the game in any shape form or fashion? its just trying to generate conflict for no reason.
Im not gonna stand around and say nothing while someone takes shots at me and quite frankly hes lucky that I dont bend him over and make him my bitch.
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On March 20 2013 04:53 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 04:52 Vivax wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 20 2013 04:51 zarepath wrote:
VE, what is the name of your role? You never said, you just claimed Vet. What's the purpose of this question? Don't you believe the claim? Zare is scum rolecop imo
Yes, now with my knowledge of the name of VE's role, I shall be able to ascertain what his role is! I am so diabolical.
I just don't understand how it hurts town to claim the name, and I CAN understand a mafia claimed vet but not wanting to say the role because they're worried somebody else has that name, especially in a game where we don't know exactly which role corresponds to which name.
I don't suspect VE of that, but I don't see any reason why he shouldn't remove all potential suspicion alotgether and just claim the name, yo.
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EBWOP: mafia claiming* vet but not wanting to say the role
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On March 20 2013 04:59 zarepath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 04:53 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 20 2013 04:52 Vivax wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 20 2013 04:51 zarepath wrote:
VE, what is the name of your role? You never said, you just claimed Vet. What's the purpose of this question? Don't you believe the claim? Zare is scum rolecop imo Yes, now with my knowledge of the name of VE's role, I shall be able to ascertain what his role is! I am so diabolical. I just don't understand how it hurts town to claim the name, and I CAN understand a mafia claimed vet but not wanting to say the role because they're worried somebody else has that name, especially in a game where we don't know exactly which role corresponds to which name. I don't suspect VE of that, but I don't see any reason why he shouldn't remove all potential suspicion alotgether and just claim the name, yo.
If you don't suspect VE of that, does that mean you don't suspect BH either since he claimed the role name?
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote:I don't understand why we are scrutinizing Wade Fell and not even glancing over at VisceraEyes. Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 13:03 VisceraEyes wrote:
He has done nothing this game. The last game I played with him he aggressively pushed his reads and pressured suspects. He's done nothing like that in this thread. He showed early aggression based on weak reasoning, but all he's done since is defend GK. Literally.
There is nothing wrong with defending town reads who are potential lynch candidates. To say that "all he's done" is defend goodkarma may be true, but this point doesn't take into full consideration the context of the action. Many people were discussing goodkarma and deciding whether he should be the lynch or not, he himself included. Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 04:11 VisceraEyes wrote:
For the record, I'm still very much good with a GK lynch. I just find myself more sure about DarthPunk having filtered him and thought about it. There should be absolutely no issue with Wade Fell defending whom he thinks is a town read, unless VisceraEyes suspects that both goodkarma and Wade Fell are scum, and that Wade Fell is defending goodkarma using fabricated evidence. Nothing in VisceraEyes' case indicates that he believes this, so there is no town alibi for saying this. Not only that, but a glance at Wade Fell's filter shows his interaction with TestSubject893 and ThePeashooter, which VisceraEyes totally ignores, even though earlier on in the day he acknowledges' one of Wade Fell's posts on ThePeashooter. Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 00:21 VisceraEyes wrote:Re: ThePeashooterOn March 17 2013 16:17 ThePeashooter wrote:On March 17 2013 15:58 DoYouHas wrote:On March 17 2013 15:50 ThePeashooter wrote:
Wadefall, consolidate your shit. I played one game of dota and somehow 80 fucking posts popped up and you are nearly a quarter of them. Nothing demotivates me more than a game that gets spammed to shit. I was really happy we weren't heading for a 100 page Day 1. You are just going to have to get over it. We are at a point where we can actively discuss the merits of cases and wagons instead of just hoping that a brilliantly written case will gather enough sheep to lynch scum. It's a good thing. I have no issue with posting content and I never will, even if it means 100 pages in a day. My issue is with posts like this comprising 25% of the last 80 posts. + Show Spoiler [It's fucking long] +On March 17 2013 14:14 Wade Fell wrote:
why does everyone in this game and last game think I have like this massive ego
I just _happen_ to always be right, it doesn't mean I have a big head about it On March 17 2013 14:19 Wade Fell wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 14:18 TestSubject893 wrote:On March 17 2013 14:14 VisceraEyes wrote:It has nothing to do with my role and everything to do with finding and destroying the scum. So you wouldn't mind if people apply without the bold ## command then? We're in a normal game, it's not like the ## command does anything On March 17 2013 14:20 Wade Fell wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 14:10 TestSubject893 wrote:
BH, I'd appriciate it if you boosted your ego through winning instead of making easy meta calls.
Gee I'm sorry how many scum did I lynch during the first 2 days of the last game On March 17 2013 14:22 Wade Fell wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 14:21 VisceraEyes wrote:On March 17 2013 14:20 Wade Fell wrote:On March 17 2013 14:10 TestSubject893 wrote:
BH, I'd appriciate it if you boosted your ego through winning instead of making easy meta calls.
Gee I'm sorry how many scum did I lynch during the first 2 days of the last game To be fair, I lynched scum D1 last game. You helped, and your support was appreciated. Ok yes technically it was you, but I would have done the same if town elected me. On March 17 2013 14:23 Wade Fell wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 14:22 TestSubject893 wrote:On March 17 2013 14:20 Wade Fell wrote:On March 17 2013 14:10 TestSubject893 wrote:
BH, I'd appriciate it if you boosted your ego through winning instead of making easy meta calls.
Gee I'm sorry how many scum did I lynch during the first 2 days of the last game Gee I'm sorry that I easily won because only 2 people in the town knew how to try. It's not easy being one of the 2 On March 17 2013 14:24 Wade Fell wrote:
man testsubject ok let me play it straight for you
oatsmaster fucked up my night check and I still got 2 scum lynched (ok like 1.5 whatever) and when I died town had it in the bag. You lucked into victory
lucked On March 17 2013 14:25 Wade Fell wrote:
Also testsubject for a guy who's read the thread and can only say "geript and zare are candidates" you sure talk a lot of smack On March 17 2013 14:27 Wade Fell wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 14:25 VisceraEyes wrote:
Oh don't be like that BH Test did exactly what he had to do to win. Bitter. I am disappoint. I'm just mad at oats really On March 17 2013 14:35 Wade Fell wrote:
I mean, I _assume_ a "lynch preference" is the same as a scumread, unless of course he is scum and would prefer to lynch town On March 17 2013 14:42 Wade Fell wrote:
Testsubject is basically just making half-assed attacks on the D1 lynchbait kk On March 17 2013 14:45 Wade Fell wrote:Yeah I gotta admit the new GK post isn't super sexy :| but GK is not a sexy man. contrast his "promised post" in NMMXXIV though (link) and it's like exactly the friggen same. This is town GK. I'll even quote his post so you can see it and I like never do that + Show Spoiler +On August 16 2012 15:24 goodkarma wrote:Okay, my long promised "case post." I'm sorry for the hype, as this is going to be short and possibly a bit disappointing for those that were anticipating it + Show Spoiler +(like latest Batman movie disappointing ) . But here's my case. It's going to be short and sweet.: A big part of day one is establishing a good future town atmosphere. To that end, there are several people that are not participating as they should. The guiltiest of these are: Jhuyt and Golbat. Jhuyt:Jhuyt is especially suspicious to me right now. I have read the recent case presented against him by Archrun above. I tend to agree heavily with his first point: about Jhuyt's experience with Solar's post history on TL being consistent with his posting. I'm not ready to call Jhuyt a liar, but claiming Solar is troll/emotional generally on TL requires further explanation. Upon looking through some of his posts, I haven't seen this to be the case. If he is lying, this is enough reason to lynch him. Now the other part of Jhuyt that is scummy is how wishy-washy he is in the limited amount of content he has posted. Let's look at his latest post. In bold are his current "reads" on certain people. Notice how hesitant he is to take a stance on anyone.: Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 20:18 Jhuyt wrote:
Hmm, you're right, I should try to be more helpful.
On Solar: This is just how he is in general from what I've seen on TL, so I don't have anything there.
On Shady: Shady tries to control the game, which is an act that I don't often see in normal townies, I've most often encountered it when a scum tries to make everybody think he's the sheriff. It is, however, a game of high risk and relies heavily on the actual sheriff being useless. He might be the sheriff as well, and this is why I think the first day is kinda silly, I don't know what to think solely based on his posts, they seem consistent.
I still think that YourHarry is something scummy simply because his posting behavior is strange, on everybody else, I need more evidence before making up my mind. Also, he is currently the winner of the "lurker prize." It is clear from what he has contributed that he has little interest in scum hunting. Therefore: ##Vote: JyuhtConsider it both a vote based on scum behavior and on "lurker policy." In the absence of a stronger scum read my vote goes on him. Golbat:I expected more from you. I know that it really sucks being mislynched day 1, and I haven't ruled out your lurkiness as being from over-reacting to your poor play in XXII by playing almost the exact opposite of how you played then. But you have to step up and continue posting your reads. What got you in trouble then was vote-swapping without giving much explanation. As long as you give an explanation for your reads, don't be afraid to FoS and vote. What you're doing now makes you look just as scummy as how you looked in XXII. ##FoS: GolbatYourHarry:I haven't forgotten about you. However poorly I feel you'd be playing as town by playing the way you are right now, I can't say it would be inconsistent with what I'd expect based on your previous play. I'm not un-FoS-ing you but I'm not ready to vote you as my top scum read right now either. is it shit? yes. But that was town GK, and this is town GK On March 17 2013 14:46 Wade Fell wrote:
Like look he LITERALLY calls golbat scummy for the same reason he votes Jyuht. That's not GK setting up a voteswap, that's just how the man thinks. On March 17 2013 14:48 Wade Fell wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 14:46 VisceraEyes wrote:
Wait wait that doesn't look the same at all. He gives a shitty summary of their play in this game and in that post he goes into detail explaining why he thinks the way he does. Ok yes in NMMXXIV he is more legit. He talks a bit about the play of the people, he's less shitty. But the idea that GK is bad because he's not evenly applying his criteria for scumminess, or that he's scum for having an easy swap is not correct. On March 17 2013 14:49 Wade Fell wrote:
I will note one deviation from meta, though, and that is that town GK typically is asking questions of people and prodding a lot in thread, and this one is not. Still, though, his slow-movingness indicates town GK to me and not the quick-drawing scum GK from LVII On March 17 2013 14:53 Wade Fell wrote:
:|
I don't like to think I'm wrong about this kind of thing. GK are you here On March 17 2013 14:56 Wade Fell wrote:
Ok here's what I'm going to do
i still think GK isn't scum and testsubject IS scum. I know it's privileging the hypothesis but all the evidence around testsubject points to him being scum, and GK seems off but not entirely off. I don't want to be wrong, but if i'm wrong I want to be voting the right guy
So I'm going to go fluff my komodo dragon's feathers for a bit and think on this. Even though GK's statements all seem scummy his TONE sounds like town GK, and yes I know that's not going to convince anyone but it has me convinced right now. I'll figure out what his deal is and why this is town GK and i'll show you all who's right and who's wrong
testsubject be a man and post some serious case rather than flailing around like you are now if you ever want me not to lynch you today
On March 17 2013 14:57 Wade Fell wrote:
tl;dr: I'm right and you're all wrong, I'm just not sure how yet. I will find a way On March 17 2013 14:58 Wade Fell wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 14:57 GreYMisT wrote:On March 17 2013 14:45 Wade Fell wrote:Yeah I gotta admit the new GK post isn't super sexy :| but GK is not a sexy man. contrast his "promised post" in NMMXXIV though (link) and it's like exactly the friggen same. This is town GK. I'll even quote his post so you can see it and I like never do that + Show Spoiler +On August 16 2012 15:24 goodkarma wrote:Okay, my long promised "case post." I'm sorry for the hype, as this is going to be short and possibly a bit disappointing for those that were anticipating it + Show Spoiler +(like latest Batman movie disappointing ) . But here's my case. It's going to be short and sweet.: A big part of day one is establishing a good future town atmosphere. To that end, there are several people that are not participating as they should. The guiltiest of these are: Jhuyt and Golbat. Jhuyt:Jhuyt is especially suspicious to me right now. I have read the recent case presented against him by Archrun above. I tend to agree heavily with his first point: about Jhuyt's experience with Solar's post history on TL being consistent with his posting. I'm not ready to call Jhuyt a liar, but claiming Solar is troll/emotional generally on TL requires further explanation. Upon looking through some of his posts, I haven't seen this to be the case. If he is lying, this is enough reason to lynch him. Now the other part of Jhuyt that is scummy is how wishy-washy he is in the limited amount of content he has posted. Let's look at his latest post. In bold are his current "reads" on certain people. Notice how hesitant he is to take a stance on anyone.: Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 20:18 Jhuyt wrote:
Hmm, you're right, I should try to be more helpful.
On Solar: This is just how he is in general from what I've seen on TL, so I don't have anything there.
On Shady: Shady tries to control the game, which is an act that I don't often see in normal townies, I've most often encountered it when a scum tries to make everybody think he's the sheriff. It is, however, a game of high risk and relies heavily on the actual sheriff being useless. He might be the sheriff as well, and this is why I think the first day is kinda silly, I don't know what to think solely based on his posts, they seem consistent.
I still think that YourHarry is something scummy simply because his posting behavior is strange, on everybody else, I need more evidence before making up my mind. Also, he is currently the winner of the "lurker prize." It is clear from what he has contributed that he has little interest in scum hunting. Therefore: ##Vote: JyuhtConsider it both a vote based on scum behavior and on "lurker policy." In the absence of a stronger scum read my vote goes on him. Golbat:I expected more from you. I know that it really sucks being mislynched day 1, and I haven't ruled out your lurkiness as being from over-reacting to your poor play in XXII by playing almost the exact opposite of how you played then. But you have to step up and continue posting your reads. What got you in trouble then was vote-swapping without giving much explanation. As long as you give an explanation for your reads, don't be afraid to FoS and vote. What you're doing now makes you look just as scummy as how you looked in XXII. ##FoS: GolbatYourHarry:I haven't forgotten about you. However poorly I feel you'd be playing as town by playing the way you are right now, I can't say it would be inconsistent with what I'd expect based on your previous play. I'm not un-FoS-ing you but I'm not ready to vote you as my top scum read right now either. is it shit? yes. But that was town GK, and this is town GK They are the same structurally, because that's simply how he posts and thinks. That will usually not change between being town and scum. However, a difference I can note is how much more specific he is here, and how he cites specific examples, and tries to convince others that this is the correct choice. In his current cases and thread presnse, I do not get that feeling from him. I get the "Look at my vote and contribution!" feeling :| GK this would be a great time to rise to your own defense or something On March 17 2013 14:58 Wade Fell wrote:
cause I got nothin
really On March 17 2013 15:05 Wade Fell wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 15:02 TestSubject893 wrote:On March 17 2013 14:46 TestSubject893 wrote:On March 17 2013 14:42 VisceraEyes wrote:On March 17 2013 14:40 TestSubject893 wrote:Ok, VE, I can go into a little detail. geript:The RNG stuff doesn't seem very indicative to me, but the tarot card speculation rubbed me the wrong way. It seems like he's posting just to post. I really don't think anyone could think that speculating about similarities to tarot cards could get us anything, so it stuck out to me as scummy. zare:Zare's post here basically just seems like a summary. It struck me as an attempt to just blend into the crowd. He doesn't add anything to the discussion really, but takes 3 paragraphs to do it. Very much a feigning contribution kind of post. If I had to pick right this second I'd vote to lynch zare. How about you give me your thoughts on the overwhelming vote leader right now, GoodKarma? Thank you for providing your lynch preferences, but those points seem a little weak and the case on GK grows stronger with every post he makes. I'd like your thoughts on why the majority of voters are wrong and we should vote for one of your guys. Honestly, I totally null on him right now, not because of anything he's posted but because I don't really remember any of his posts and didn't take any notes on him. I guess I'll take this opportunity to look closer and get back to you. Ok, so I was looking through his posts, feeling pretty good about him, saying to myself "I could see him being town. I'm sceptical of all this SAST stuff too.", but then BAM. On March 17 2013 14:09 goodkarma wrote:
I would say that my stance on VE has been that he was being silly. That coag attempted to go into the group though convinced me that I needed to be sure it didn't gain momentum as it was not a very pro-town plan. I'm not against "town circles," however, if they're done right.
This doesn't make sense as town to me. Even if he thinks its dumb "being sure it doesn't get momentum" is a waste of time for anyone but scum. Almost as much of a waste of time as your setup speculation on Ve's role in a normal game On March 17 2013 15:14 Wade Fell wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 15:09 VisceraEyes wrote:On March 17 2013 15:05 Wade Fell wrote:On March 17 2013 15:02 TestSubject893 wrote:On March 17 2013 14:46 TestSubject893 wrote:On March 17 2013 14:42 VisceraEyes wrote:On March 17 2013 14:40 TestSubject893 wrote:Ok, VE, I can go into a little detail. geript:The RNG stuff doesn't seem very indicative to me, but the tarot card speculation rubbed me the wrong way. It seems like he's posting just to post. I really don't think anyone could think that speculating about similarities to tarot cards could get us anything, so it stuck out to me as scummy. zare:Zare's post here basically just seems like a summary. It struck me as an attempt to just blend into the crowd. He doesn't add anything to the discussion really, but takes 3 paragraphs to do it. Very much a feigning contribution kind of post. If I had to pick right this second I'd vote to lynch zare. How about you give me your thoughts on the overwhelming vote leader right now, GoodKarma? Thank you for providing your lynch preferences, but those points seem a little weak and the case on GK grows stronger with every post he makes. I'd like your thoughts on why the majority of voters are wrong and we should vote for one of your guys. Honestly, I totally null on him right now, not because of anything he's posted but because I don't really remember any of his posts and didn't take any notes on him. I guess I'll take this opportunity to look closer and get back to you. Ok, so I was looking through his posts, feeling pretty good about him, saying to myself "I could see him being town. I'm sceptical of all this SAST stuff too.", but then BAM. On March 17 2013 14:09 goodkarma wrote:
I would say that my stance on VE has been that he was being silly. That coag attempted to go into the group though convinced me that I needed to be sure it didn't gain momentum as it was not a very pro-town plan. I'm not against "town circles," however, if they're done right.
This doesn't make sense as town to me. Even if he thinks its dumb "being sure it doesn't get momentum" is a waste of time for anyone but scum. Almost as much of a waste of time as your setup speculation on Ve's role in a normal game Do you disagree with his point? What town motivation is there to "make sure it doesn't get momentum"? If it's a waste of time, it's MY waste of time, not his. Commenting on it and discrediting it does nothing to find scum, especially if he doesn't find me scummy for it. Yeah okay his point is bad, and even pushing it wasn't helping any conceivable town agenda, even assuming he thought it was true :| On March 17 2013 15:14 Wade Fell wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 15:11 TestSubject893 wrote:On March 17 2013 14:53 GreYMisT wrote:
TestSubject really hasn't said much of anything (hypocritical from me right?). The main thing that stands out to me about him is that a significant exchange between him and Wade Fell took place regarding punishing bad town play. TestSubject supports this argument with his main entrance post, calling for pressure against Coag. However, He doesnt attempt to pressure him at all, and really fails to significantly mention him.
I can see where he is coming from with his read on zare, but overally Test doesnt seem like the best lynch candidate to me at the moment. Pressuring Coag is moot as long as BH is willing to stick his neck out for him, and will be even less effective now that we've vocallized that we're not all that serious about following through with a lynch on him. I don't have as many opinions as others because I'm 16 hours behind everyone else on this game due to my internet being out....
On March 17 2013 14:57 Wade Fell wrote:
tl;dr: I'm right and you're all wrong, I'm just not sure how yet. I will find a way How does this make sense as town? Read the longer post. Every single one of these posts was within an hour and I didn't even select every single post within that specific hour. At some point in life I might actually have to read the guys filter or rest of the damn game. Wade makes an excellent point about this post. Unlike Ryu who comments on the matter and lets it pass, TPS goes to the trouble of finding and quoting all of these Wade posts he didn't like. Why? What's the point? They're already in the thread once and he's bitching about it. WHY PUT THEM IN THE THREAD AGAIN? ##Unvote: goodkarma
##Vote: ThePeashooter You don't say that someone makes an excellent point, and then totally ignore it when evaluating their play. But that is what VisceraEyes tries to do. He sweeps away something that he himself called "an excellent point" and misconstrues Wade Fell as wasting all his time D1 defending goodkarma, which isn't even scum indicative as his posting shows. Additionally you can see in this post that VisceraEyes drops his initial case on goodkarma. The vote switch indicates that whatever point Wade Fell brought up was strong enough to pursue than his original case on goodkarma. Therefore, the magnitude of VisceraEyes' misinterpretation is greater for he is a hypocrite in saying that Wade Fell did nothing, when he himself asserts that Wade Fell made an excellent point. Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 13:03 VisceraEyes wrote:
But that's not all he's done. Wade Fell is also a mason. I know this because he's been masoned to me all during this phase. He claims to have been masoned to GK during the day. All he's done in this mason convo has been push his same weak arguments he made in the thread at first, then just passively agree with anything I said. He wasn't trying to divine my alignment. And if his posts are to be believe he didn't mason GK to divine his alignment either. He's been masoning town-reads. To what end? He's not bringing anything new to the table in mason chats, that's for sure.
Again, more misinformation. Here VisceraEyes tries to push the idea that Wade Fell's usage of the mason role is indicative of him being scum. He asserts that the mason role should be used to determine alignment first and foremost. Well that's blatantly wrong. There is nothing wrong, and in fact there is something very valuable with masoning a town read in order to bounce around thoughts and ideas. Wade Fell himself explains his mason choice: Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 13:39 Wade Fell wrote:
As an aside, another reason I masoned GK is that I've interacted with him in QTs before when I coached him, and I knew I'd be able to get a perfect read on him from doing so, as well as help his scumhunting.
How is that not a sensible response? It helps Wade Fell solidify his read on goodkarma, and also helps direct goodkarma's scumhunting as Wade Fell acted as his coach. There is very good townie motivations to mason a town read. However VisceraEyes tries to push the idea that Wade Fell used his role poorly and therefore must be scum. Let's explore that next. Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 13:03 VisceraEyes wrote:
This leads me to conclude that Wade Fell is some sort of scum mason attempting to manipulate townies. He claims he can mason a different person every phase, and phase one he chose GK and phase 2 he chose me.
Ok. VisceraEyes' hypothesis is that Wade Fell is a scum mason trying to manipulate townies. Where in this post does VisceraEyes consider goodkarma as scum? He doesn't. Let me hash that out again. In the starting sections of my post I demonstrated that VisceraEyes considered goodkarma scum. Additionally he disparaged Wade Fell's play in defending goodkarma (another contradiction), but now he is trying to push Wade Fell as scum on the basis that he is masoning goodkarma, which is one of his town reads? How is Wade Fell masoning goodkarma supporting evidence that Wade Fell is a scum mason attempting to manipulate townies? It isn't. VisceraEyes is getting muddled up in his pile of lies. Either you think goodkarma is town and that Wade Fell's mason choice was to manipulate him, or you think goodkarma is scum and that Wade Fell fake masoned a scum partner. What VisceraEyes is doing is calling both goodkarma and Wade Fell scum, and using "town goodkarma" as evidence of Wade Fell scum. Only scum do this. Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 13:13 VisceraEyes wrote:
I don't think I'm allowed, which is part of why I revealed him. Without the ability to post the mason logs, it seems weak anyway and it's a large portion of what makes him scummy to me. So VisceraEyes admits himself that his case seems weak without the mason logs. However, once Wade Fell releases the mason logs, he doesn't talk about the content at all! If the strongest body of evidence comes from the mason logs, and they were released, wouldn't you go in and use that as evidence to convince people that Wade Fell is scum? Well VisceraEyes doesn't, because there is nothing that alignment telling in there. He himself says Wade Fell doesn't push his ideas in the QT but he himself presents very flimsy contributions himself. Where is his push of DarthPunk? He called him scummy all D1, left his vote on DarthPunk and checked out, and has picked up some new targets. Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 04:11 VisceraEyes wrote:
For the record, I'm still very much good with a GK lynch. I just find myself more sure about DarthPunk having filtered him and thought about it. No more comments on DarthPunk. No more comments on goodkarma. Just hopping along wagons when he can, and dropping them without explanation. His original case on DarthPunk was very shoddy. Additionally is the nonsense about him taking a hit. Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 17:09 Ace wrote:
Why would you claim Vet though as Town? Even if the Scum clearly know they shot you, they have no idea how the hit failed. Roleclaiming serves no purpose here.
The majority of your case is actually just a defense of Wade Fell (BH). And most of your actual case on HIM, at the end, seems like confirmation bias/generalization. I'll watch him but I find it odd how vehemently you defend BH here.
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@Vivax - You are ignoring the obvious explanation for the supposed slip you are trying to nail BH with.
"Okay so the hosts are dragging their feet with setting up the Mason QT(So BH made one himself) so I'll drop some stuff in here(here being the QT BH just made) since I have to step out for a moment."
It is far more probable than your theory that BH made a QT, the hosts were made aware of it, and they just stuck with that QT for the BH-GK masoning. The slip you found simply isn't.
On March 20 2013 01:46 WaveofShadow wrote:
Ok found it.
It's the timestamps that bother me.
Between BH and GK, (the ones Vivax suspects of being a scumteam-fabricated QT/logs) every single post has a fairly decent size berth in between; the smallest one being 3 minutes right at the end, the next smallest being 5 minutes (2-lines) and every one after that being 12 min or longer in between posts. This means that it's POSSIBLE that they were fabricating these posts in the scum QT in between. This isn't possible in the VE-BH logs, as there is evidence of free-flowing quick conversation taking place with multiple 2-minute spaces in between posts from both of them.
Also of course the fact that they didn't even start contacting each other until much later in the day either means
a) they were planning in the scum QT
b) BH didn't send his mason request till late (can be a subset of (a), null)
c) he's telling the truth and DrH didn't set up the QT until later.
The post where Vivax outlines the slip makes option (c) seem VERY odd so the scummier options seem more likely here.
Now this could all be Wave's Conspiracy Theories™ but I figure it's worth putting out there to see what people think.
@WOS You are supposing that BH, GK, and possibly VE all coordinated enough to create these false logs, yet you don't think they could have changed the timestamps to make the exchange look more genuine? If you think the logs are faked, analyzing the timestamps like you are is worthless.
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On March 20 2013 05:01 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 04:59 zarepath wrote:On March 20 2013 04:53 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 20 2013 04:52 Vivax wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 20 2013 04:51 zarepath wrote:
VE, what is the name of your role? You never said, you just claimed Vet. What's the purpose of this question? Don't you believe the claim? Zare is scum rolecop imo Yes, now with my knowledge of the name of VE's role, I shall be able to ascertain what his role is! I am so diabolical. I just don't understand how it hurts town to claim the name, and I CAN understand a mafia claimed vet but not wanting to say the role because they're worried somebody else has that name, especially in a game where we don't know exactly which role corresponds to which name. I don't suspect VE of that, but I don't see any reason why he shouldn't remove all potential suspicion alotgether and just claim the name, yo. If you don't suspect VE of that, does that mean you don't suspect BH either since he claimed the role name?
I don't suspect him of fake-claiming, if that's what you mean, because I'm in a QT with him. He could be faking the color of his role, but that's not what I'm talking about.
If we force everyone who blue-claims to state the name of their role, we can essentially shut down all fake roleclaims from scum because there will either be someone with the power they're claiming (a DT or medic or vet or what have you), or someone who has the name that they're claiming, but it goes to a different power.
I think your speculation as to a power involving the names of roles is coming more from your distrust of me than it is from any logical perspective.
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EPT
