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Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
21972 Posts
March 19 2013 14:44 GMT
#1121
Why do you post a list of all your reads when your only argument should be to get scum lynched if you are town.

Bring the arguments against Wiggles and TranceStorm then. Bring other reads when you use them for association or to stop pressure on townreads.

You also forgot to include previous arguments you used to say GK played scummy in your list, why do you forget your own arguments for saying people might be scum and instead say he's just scummy for activity now? Others are far less active.
TranceStorm
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
1616 Posts
March 19 2013 14:47 GMT
#1122
Ok, since you think I'm scum based on that quote, allow me to justify myself. I was questioned about my willingness to lynch you after I had made my case on DoYouHas. At that point in time, you seemed very mafia-like to me and I voiced that if I would be because of the reasons articulated by other users. There is no reason to repeat what others said given that I wasn't voting for you!

And think about it this. If I were scum, I could have simply given a bogus justification or repeated someone else's argument to 'appear as if I had made a contribution'. I didn't do that, I gave my opinion without writing a paragraph about why I felt that way.

Unfortunately, I was unable to participate in the later brouhaha regarding the GM lynch so I couldn't make any extended push against any particular player.
zarepath
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1626 Posts
March 19 2013 14:58 GMT
#1123
Can you see how it looks scummy if you make a case on DoYouHas, people question you about zarepath, and you suddenly drop your case and vote for zarepath based off of no unique reason of your own? Lack of justification is a scummy trait.
"Your efforts you put in will never betray you." - Flash | "If I'm not good enough, I don't wanna win." - Naniwa
TranceStorm
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
1616 Posts
March 19 2013 15:04 GMT
#1124
I didn't vote for you though, and I didn't drop my case against DoYouHas. I just said that I would be willing to vote for you. I didn't have any unique reasons why; they had all been outlined beforehand by people like sciberia. If I were to switch my vote to you, I might have given a brief 2 liner about how lackluster your D1 posts seemed to be.
zarepath
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1626 Posts
March 19 2013 15:07 GMT
#1125
On March 19 2013 23:44 Vivax wrote:
Why do you post a list of all your reads when your only argument should be to get scum lynched if you are town.

Bring the arguments against Wiggles and TranceStorm then. Bring other reads when you use them for association or to stop pressure on townreads.

You also forgot to include previous arguments you used to say GK played scummy in your list, why do you forget your own arguments for saying people might be scum and instead say he's just scummy for activity now? Others are far less active.


1. Because there's a chance I'm lynched today, and I started this reads post for a N1 post but didn't have time to finish it. Also: I don't see why it's unhelpful.

2. What do you think about Wiggles and TranceStorm? I'll be looking into them more deeply as the day goes, but I think there's a good enough amount to suspect and pressure them right now already -- Wiggles refuses to give reads, and Trance did a weird dance for yesterday's lynch. Now Trance still thinks that Wiggles is "super scummy" but has actually voted instead for TPS based off of someone else's case. His opening post is a whole lot of nothing, and so are his next few posts.

3. If you're talking about the quote I pulled with goodkarma basically giving a resume of how townie he's been, yes, that's still a strike against him in my book. But his interaction with BH in the QT has evened my read out to Null.
"Your efforts you put in will never betray you." - Flash | "If I'm not good enough, I don't wanna win." - Naniwa
zarepath
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1626 Posts
March 19 2013 15:08 GMT
#1126
On March 20 2013 00:04 TranceStorm wrote:
I didn't vote for you though, and I didn't drop my case against DoYouHas. I just said that I would be willing to vote for you. I didn't have any unique reasons why; they had all been outlined beforehand by people like sciberia. If I were to switch my vote to you, I might have given a brief 2 liner about how lackluster your D1 posts seemed to be.


I guess that's true; you didn't. It just looked a lot like "Sheep for hire! Any case will do!"
"Your efforts you put in will never betray you." - Flash | "If I'm not good enough, I don't wanna win." - Naniwa
TranceStorm
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
1616 Posts
March 19 2013 15:22 GMT
#1127
@zarepath: in response to your town points (one of your posts is a response to Vivax).

First, as to my lynch choice today. I have a choice to make between the case against TPS and against Mr. Wiggles (which I had pointed out first last night). For me, the compelling evidence against TPS seems to be his behavior in his very flimsy vote for GM last night and hasn't paid any lip service to the accusations leveled at him. My case against Wiggles has been responded to somewhat, if unconvincingly. In a decision between two scummy candidates, I have to the most likely one, in my opinion it is TPS.

As to your second point, you are overgeneralizing. I was asked specifically for the case of zarepath, which I had read over and agreed with. That doesn't mean that any case that's presented to me will be something I agree with.
layabout
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 19 2013 15:26 GMT
#1128
On March 19 2013 21:42 sciberbia wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [snip] +
Guess I'm just not sleeping tonight :/

@Kitaman
I believe you are referring to DYH doing some meta research on Zerapath. And he did indeed follow up on it. Just filter DYH

@Mocsta
While filtering you I found this.

On March 19 2013 17:08 Mocsta wrote:
Indulge me.. why are guys like Coagulation being allowed to fly under the radar?


I'm actually leaning town on Coag. Hence, no need to bring him up. And I suspect the rest of the thread lives in terror of having their head bitten off if they dare try to make a read on him.

Anyway, if you've played with Coag before, what say you to this:

Show nested quote +
On March 18 2013 17:34 sciberbia wrote:
- Coag hopped on the DP bandwaggon in the voting thread despite never mentioning him in his filter. Is this normal Coag behavior? Too scummy to be scum?



I would say that such behavior is within my expectations.

What do you make of keirathi's take on zarepath?
Be the Best You Can Be ! Play MAFIA II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/ II Dragonsound Best Band
ThePeashooter
Profile Joined March 2013
United States100 Posts
March 19 2013 15:27 GMT
#1129
On March 19 2013 21:39 kitaman27 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2013 17:09 Ace wrote:
Why would you claim Vet though as Town? Even if the Scum clearly know they shot you, they have no idea how the hit failed. Roleclaiming serves no purpose here.


To be clear, are you inferring that you believe VE isn't town because a town VE would have no reason to claim vet or are you lecturing VE for a poor decision?

Unless someone else claims a hit, I see no reason to doubt the hit with only one flip. Keirathi could have been a doublestack, but its pretty unlikely. Unless VE is still around 5 cycles from now I imagine the claim will take care of itself.

Show nested quote +
On March 19 2013 12:48 VisceraEyes wrote:
Kita what do you think of BH this game? TELL ME THE TRUTH!!! *hexhexhex*


I'll get back to you after I get a chance to read through the logs. If I don't, remind me.

I'm having trouble looking for a post if someone recalls it. There was a player who posted a bunch of links to a past game, without commenting on the content. I looked 3 times through the thread and couldn't find it, so I might just be crazy, but I was hoping to see if they ever followed up with it.

@TPS. If you can confirm/deny your identity as yamato, I believe it will give me a clue to your alignment based on one of your earlier posts and it is something not related to the Vivax guess. If you are town, you would surely be willing to reveal this small piece of information.

I'll come up with a much larger post tonight when I actually have more time, without getting interrupted every 3 minutes.

This is the only indulging I am going to do and it is solely because I like Kitaman. I actually don't even know who he is. I have purposely ignored every question pertaining to this because I don't find it relevant and any other guesses will be firmly ignored.
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
21972 Posts
March 19 2013 15:33 GMT
#1130
OK took a quick look at BH's mason logs didn't finish them yet cause I noticed something first.

BAD news: Looks like one of my reads was wrong, is it you who is town TPS? Maybe rather glurio?

GOOD news: BH likely scum, I have evidence that the logs are faked.

As you see, BH talks about hosts dragging their feet setting up the mason qt. Since the message can't have been a PM (you see the Edit Delete?) it's clear it was written in another qt. Not hard to guess which one.

+ Show Spoiler +

Edit

Delete
Okay so the hosts are dragging their feet with setting up the Mason QT so I'll drop some stuff in here since I have to step out for a moment. My power works on a per-phase basis and I was hoping to mason you for D2 but the chance you can be lynched is too high, so instead I'm masoning you for D1 so I can work with you while you're still alive.

In any case, I currently have two strong scumreads I want to push, besides my tiff with Testsubject and with TPS (which I need to step back from due to emotional issues, at least for today). I suggest we pool our thoughts and reads since you are a pretty good scumhunter when you have someone to bounce ideas off of.

Mainly I am concerned with Mr. Wiggles. He is an aggressive scumhunter and a capable asset as town, but his scum play isn't as good, and I'm pretty sure this is scum Wiggles. He didn't seriously follow-up on his attack on you, and only when prodded has he posted in the thread. When he DOES post, he composes his posts quite well-- they look and smell like cases-- but he doesn't back them up and press them the way a town player who really wanted to lynch his target would. For example, he calls up Coag's meta to defend coag, then utterly ignores meta to attack you. I jumped through all kinds of hoops to deflect it and even now he's trying to get a mislynch off on you, despite admitting you're playing to your town meta.

The other player that bothers me is Geript, but I think I might be emotionally against him and seeing things I shouldn't-- I'd like you to check my logic here. Geript has been actively opposing attempts of town to organize and scumhunt, but not in a way that relays concerns for town complacency or other dangers of VE's gambit. furthermore, he is focusing his attacks on the most productive and useful townies rather than try to develop cases or even push his main targets. Whenever there's pushback, he changes who he's attacking.

Normally I'd be on him like white on rice, but I mislynched him last game and am worried I am misreading him now.

I'm going to be rolling out an attack on Wiggles shortly. Do you have any thoughts?
1
BlazinghandPerson was signed in when posted
03-17-2013
08:52 PM ET (US)


Edit

Delete
Mason QT between GoodKarma and Wade Fell for D1 of The Game.


##Vote WadeFell

huehuehueheuheuehueheuheu
layabout
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 19 2013 15:42 GMT
#1131
Vivax that is literally the worst reason to lynch BH i have ever seen or thought of.
Be the Best You Can Be ! Play MAFIA II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/ II Dragonsound Best Band
layabout
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 19 2013 15:45 GMT
#1132
For starters it would make BH, VE and GK all scum since they are all telling us the logs are genuine.
Be the Best You Can Be ! Play MAFIA II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/ II Dragonsound Best Band
ThePeashooter
Profile Joined March 2013
United States100 Posts
March 19 2013 15:57 GMT
#1133
I meant to say who "I actually don't even know who Yamato is"

Now I know I'm a bit biased here so I'm going to ask both Ace and Kitaman for a favor here. I would like you to read WadeFall's filter. The reason I want someone else to do this is because I am without a doubt biased against Wade Fall and I feel as though it needs to be done by someone competent.

I accept that Wade is stupid, however I believe he crossed the line from just being stupid to actively lying and overextending his reads on me to sway town to lynch me which is an extremely scummy thing. I noticed he was doing it yesterday but it wasn't as overt.

Let me dissect his accusation post as an example of what I am talking about so there is a point of reference.


On March 19 2013 15:57 Wade Fell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2013 15:43 Keirathi wrote:
As an aside, lets do some setup speculation.

How likely is it that there are 2 town aligned masons, with Nightmare already flipping? Granted, Nightmare was a mason-vig, but Mason is a pretty damn strong role. In games with temporary masons, you don't often see them so lopsided, numbers wise :o


I hate setup speculation, but yes, this is an entirely reasonable point in the context of speculating about the setup. I can understand VE's reasoning for outing me, especially given that this is the case. I don't really have an answer for this other than that I am a town-aligned mason role, and although it's weird it's not unthinkable, and DrH is a wiley fellow.





Okay so lists posts are crap right so I'm gonna keep it short and simple, here are my two scumreads I want to lynch today, and why we should lynch them. I'm leaving wiggles, testsubj, geript wos ryu dp etc unmentioned because they are not my top 2 scumreads and I want to stay focused. Each of them individually has things I dislike about them but barring a something weird happenign with the daypost I won't be pushing them.If that changes and I am still alive, I will let you know.

1) thepeashooter: I've talked a lot about TPS in thread already but mainly I'm concerned about his attempts to _look_ like he's contributing without actually doing it. I'm like 90% sure his "anger" at my spamming is faked given that you had the same filter length as me at the time and his response to it was to just quote a bunch of my posts.

I said this multiple times. I don't care about how many posts you have as long as they are actual content. I said this multiple times but for some reason he chooses to ignore this and continue pretending all I care about is post count.

Furthermore, he is trying to say my anger is fake. He knows for a fact its not fake since I reported him to the host for spamming even after I asked him to shut the fuck up both nicely then directly. You know I was genuinely annoyed yet you are going to pretend you think I wasn't only because it serves a purpose. This is the definition of malicious intent.

He's done a pretty slick job of not contributing to the game and looking like an "emotional townie". Why would he quote all my posts and complain about my filter length when at the time Ve has the same level of spam? (link) this doesn't read "angry town" to me, it reads "fake anger".

Please illustrate how I have not contributed at all? You have pretty much done two things, spam and try to kill me but somehow I am the one who has contributed nothing. You give no example apart from you saying it is so.

His weird opt-out of the town discourse D1 (link) is scummy, as well as the fact he had to be forcefully prodded into contributing.

This is my favorite part. His example of me "opting out" of town discourse is a link to him just saying that I did that. At no point did I ever say fuck you for not wanting to lynch Coag and ran away to my cave until the cycle was over. He was one of a couple of people (the other being Coag) who kept pointing out how I abandoned the thread and went inactive even though my most recent posts at the time indicated that I was at work. By "Forceful Prodding" he actually meant "got home from work".

I don't buy his theory that he wanted to "let it play out" with GM rather than (link) actively interacting with the case. Imagine you are a townie in this situation. Do you engage and try to get an understanding of what's going on and push your own reads, or even ask questions to refine them? Or do you hang back and "let it play out"? Even if you hang back, you at least ask questions and try to learn more. This is not what town does, this think that TPS has done. A lot of his other posts aren't analysis but are just dismissals (link)(link)(link) in which he doesn't push his own ideas but just naysays what other people have to say.

I will be voting for TPS when the daypost goes up based on this.

The only semi legitimate point I suppose so I will elaborate on my train of thought. I know greymist is a veteran player and I was immediately suspicious of him. My notes on him are a link to his first post and a comment that "You can do better than this." I was simply waiting him out and didn't want to give him a reason to go on the defensive if he knew I was suspicious.

On top of this I was already pushing Coagulation who I still wouldn't mind seeing dead. As I stated earlier, there is no reason to push all 5 of your scum candidates at once if you can only kill one at a time. I'd prefer to pressure one and see how the others respond to that pressure.

The last part of that is my hopping on the band wagon to kill Greymist. As I said earlier I had been at work and got caught up that night and I wasn't exactly sure when the day post was coming. I saw Greymist thrown out as an alternative to Zare and I knew for a fact that I thought greymist was scummy and was pretty sure I had a townread on Zare at the time. So I chose to change my vote to greymist. I didn't have time to actually post a case or do analysis because I was not home.

So I admit, both scenario's are possible, but I feel that I have adequately explained my reasoning for not having said anything about greymist until passively voting for him. If you want further evidence of my reasoning for not listing every single read you can find me speaking to Vivax here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402057&currentpage=39#763
ThePeashooter
Profile Joined March 2013
United States100 Posts
March 19 2013 16:02 GMT
#1134
On March 20 2013 00:45 layabout wrote:
For starters it would make BH, VE and GK all scum since they are all telling us the logs are genuine.

Yeah, you can't fake logs of someone who is still alive unless they are both scum. In this case it would mean all 3, (IE: around 50-60% of the mafia team) would have to be scum. This would be an insane ploy.
zarepath
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1626 Posts
March 19 2013 16:05 GMT
#1135
Yeah, well, the QT is definitely a thing; I'm in one right now with him. I just don't understand the line about how the mods are slow about putting the QT up but still having a place to put his first line that's saying that...

So it could just be BH and GK scum, but it seems like a pretty bad claim.
"Your efforts you put in will never betray you." - Flash | "If I'm not good enough, I don't wanna win." - Naniwa
layabout
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 19 2013 16:16 GMT
#1136
cosmic get your butt in here now and tell me what you think about BH.
Be the Best You Can Be ! Play MAFIA II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/ II Dragonsound Best Band
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
21972 Posts
March 19 2013 16:28 GMT
#1137
It's obvious BH is a mason, so it doesn't make VE automatically scum. It just means that part of the logs with GK have been written in the scum qt and the D1 masoning was fake, the others could be real.

+ Show Spoiler +
On March 18 2013 02:23 layabout wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2013 02:19 Coagulation wrote:
I may not be on VEs little circle jerk squad but i can still sheep them.
im gonna vote ThePeashooter.

did anyone ever figure anything out about the yamato slip? was it actually a scum slip? and whats with greymist defending sandroba so hard.

vivax thinks TPS is yamato and started calling him yamato. So either they are both scum, masons or vivax did something "silly".



Given how layabout calls this obvious slip stupid, but was pretty quick to damn me for a slip that wasn't one earlier, I'm now also suspicious of him.

Layabout why do you call cosmic out of all players to look at this?
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
March 19 2013 16:31 GMT
#1138
On lunch break, how is BH even being considered as town? It's obvious he's scum. I'll post more on this once I get out of clinical for the day.
layabout
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 19 2013 16:33 GMT
#1139
On March 20 2013 01:28 Vivax wrote:
It's obvious BH is a mason, so it doesn't make VE automatically scum. It just means that part of the logs with GK have been written in the scum qt and the D1 masoning was fake, the others could be real.

+ Show Spoiler +
On March 18 2013 02:23 layabout wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2013 02:19 Coagulation wrote:
I may not be on VEs little circle jerk squad but i can still sheep them.
im gonna vote ThePeashooter.

did anyone ever figure anything out about the yamato slip? was it actually a scum slip? and whats with greymist defending sandroba so hard.

vivax thinks TPS is yamato and started calling him yamato. So either they are both scum, masons or vivax did something "silly".



Given how layabout calls this obvious slip stupid, but was pretty quick to damn me for a slip that wasn't one earlier, I'm now also suspicious of him.

Layabout why do you call cosmic out of all players to look at this?

This appears to be another incident with the sarcasm. Vivax i didn't think you slipped i explained the slip but (i hope it should be obvious to most) i thought it was just you being silly. If you notice i didn't try to push you or TPS, as i should have if i believed you had slipped.

As to your other point: I am not telling. Yet.
Be the Best You Can Be ! Play MAFIA II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/ II Dragonsound Best Band
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
21972 Posts
March 19 2013 16:36 GMT
#1140
Like, I don't know how you people (layabout, TPS) all assume it makes everyone masoned scum, do you guys have no fantasy or are you just trying to put the slip into favourable light.

Replacing the TPS and glurio reads with layabout and Wade now, TPS is being tunneled by wade and GK so unlikely scum imo.

Zarepath, GK, cosmicomics, Wade, layabout scum probably.

Layabout you said you liked my case against Zarepath earlier yet you are doing absolutely nothing to hunt scum currently, you're just defending BH, zarepath is here and you don't try to figure out if he scum?

On March 19 2013 02:54 layabout wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2013 02:50 zarepath wrote:
Are you Yamato or what? The longer you don't respond to this scumslip narrative the more you're allowing us to mislynch Vivax should he be town.

Are you serious?

This was dealt with forever ago.

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