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Ok looking at the cosmic case on VE, there are a few things that are reaching just a little bit, but overall the inconsistencies pointed out in VE's play are pretty damning. Even more damning may be the fact that VE returns to the thread and completely ignores the (clearly good) case on him without trying to defend any of the points made on these inconsistencies, rather he just adds another post weakly pushing BH again.
I'm interested to hear what BH himself thinks of this evidence, especially since he had originally regarded VE as his strognest town read at the time.
GK regarding your post on Wiggle, I originally had him as a townread but he has done dick all since yesterday aside from this:
On March 19 2013 13:48 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Because if he's town he's a free shot on a strong role paired with a potentially strong player for scum. Makes more sense to wait until day time if you had to do it. @BH/Geript: Can you two cut it out? It's a game, you don't have to get personal.
which adds nothing of value at all. I think for now my scumread on VE is stronger but at least he is around to maybe provide some defense. Wiggle's posts are useless but VE's are blatant contradictions. I'm having a lot of trouble trusting either VE or BH right now but it's seeming more and more to me that one of them may have to be scum.
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I'm interested to hear what "inconsistencies" you find particularly moving DYH.
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"Clearly good"? It's not good at all. In fact it's awful because I'm town. I'm ignoring it because it's all based on useless speculation based on mason logs I was told by the host aren't even supposed to be in the thread. So whatever.
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On March 20 2013 05:51 VisceraEyes wrote:
"Clearly good"? It's not good at all. In fact it's awful because I'm town. I'm ignoring it because it's all based on useless speculation based on mason logs I was told by the host aren't even supposed to be in the thread. So whatever.
So go ahead and make it stronger?
On March 19 2013 13:13 VisceraEyes wrote:
I don't think I'm allowed, which is part of why I revealed him. Without the ability to post the mason logs, it seems weak anyway and it's a large portion of what makes him scummy to me.
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After that post I asked DocH specifically if I was allowed to post mason logs. He said no. That's all I know.
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Ok, but the point remains. Were you or were you not saying your case was weak without the mason logs? If you have the mason logs available to you now, what has changed?
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No I was saying the ROLE MASON is weak without the ability to post mason logs. It's just he said she said without the logs, and that doesn't prove anything to anyone.
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Alright there we go, so there goes one of cosmic's points against you...that wasn't so hard.
The other point (I don't care about the DP nonsense) that struck home for me was you fingering GK earlier on and then assuming he was town to make the case against BH. I'll link for your convenience:
Ok. VisceraEyes' hypothesis is that Wade Fell is a scum mason trying to manipulate townies. Where in this post does VisceraEyes consider goodkarma as scum? He doesn't. Let me hash that out again. In the starting sections of my post I demonstrated that VisceraEyes considered goodkarma scum. Additionally he disparaged Wade Fell's play in defending goodkarma (another contradiction), but now he is trying to push Wade Fell as scum on the basis that he is masoning goodkarma, which is one of his town reads? How is Wade Fell masoning goodkarma supporting evidence that Wade Fell is a scum mason attempting to manipulate townies? It isn't. VisceraEyes is getting muddled up in his pile of lies. Either you think goodkarma is town and that Wade Fell's mason choice was to manipulate him, or you think goodkarma is scum and that Wade Fell fake masoned a scum partner. What VisceraEyes is doing is calling both goodkarma and Wade Fell scum, and using "town goodkarma" as evidence of Wade Fell scum. Only scum do this.
Do you agree with both BH and GK being scum partners and that the logs were faked?
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DrH was being a slow piece of crap and not setting up the QT between me and GK very quickly. He PMed me and told me to set it up myself and send him the link. I did so, but I he didn't reply (and neither did Oats) and GK didn't post in the thread, so I wrote up a post and stepped out. Later, DrH PMed the link to GK and we used the QT I set up.
In terms of who OP each QT, the OP of the QT between me and GK was Blazinghand. The OP of the QT between me and VE was Oatsmaster. The OP of the QT between me and zarepath is DrH. The fact that his supremely subpar hosting skills are causing a trip-up in my claim is annoying, but that's just the way it is, and there isn't really anything I can do to be more convincing than telling the truth.
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Also I would like to note that even assuming some sort of GK/WF or GK/VE/Zare/WF conspiracy scumteam, the time between the host saying it was allowed for me to post logs and me posting logs was super short.
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Also I feel that CC is the one who should be doing this right now. Looking forward to see what DYH adds later on.
Ohai BH! What say you about the VE case?
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No I'm sitting town on GK these days.
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On March 19 2013 20:31 sciberbia wrote:The PeashooterNot sure how you missed it, but I did give an updated read on him in one of those links, in which I explained why I thought there was a pretty good chance he is town. Mainly due to his seeming lack of interest in the lynch, I am now neutral on TPS. accusation that his first post was scummySetup speculation is tempting and I don't expect people to scumhunt in the first hour of the game. + Show Spoiler +
If anything, it makes me think townier of him. Does it seem like a typical scum move to get your role PM, meet up with your scumbuddies in the QT, and immediately spend 20 minutes constructing some half-assed setup speculative post, and introducing yourself to the thread with it? IMO, the answer is no.
Also, he did not even preview his first post. I think scum would be nervous about blundering with their first post and make sure to at least give it a preview.
I strongly disagree. The half-assed setup speculative post is EXACTLY the kind of post you can make as scum without meeting up with your buddies, without having to worry about giving anything away or accidentally being helpful.
On March 19 2013 20:31 sciberbia wrote:
accusation of fake anger at spam
I don't see sufficient evidence that his anger at your spamming was faked.
First of all, it's not like he went on a tirade. He just told you to shut up and consolidate.
Secondly, it makes perfect sense that he was mad at you for spamming (as opposed to VE) because he was already pissed at you from your earlier disagreements with him.
Thirdly, the sequence of posts he mentions was in fact annoying. Particularly when you and VE spent several posts talking about some other game.
He DID go on a tirade, and he admits, publically, that he pressured the hosts to modkill me. If this isn't a tirade I will literally eat my hat IRL. Can VE and I get annoying? Sure, yeah, and sometimes I post a bit too many one-liners, but why no pressure on VE? Why the odd single-minded attack on me? He wasn't attacking "spam", he was attacking "wade fell" and the fact that he unleashed a mountain of quotes when he wanted to make the thread shorter, and he proceeded to not-contribute because he was too busy being "mad", is not something we can simply discount like that.
On March 19 2013 20:31 sciberbia wrote:
accusations about opting out of town discussion
I agree it is a cause for concern that he spent a lot of time talking about Coag when it was pretty obvious that Coag was not a popular lynch target. He could have been using this tunnel as an easy way to appear to be participating as scum.
It does bother me that he was content to sit on Coag and for much of D1 even when there is no support at all for a Coag lynch. This is IMO your strongest point against him.
accusation concerning his post where he votes GreyMist
I agree it is a bit suspicious how he just sheeps onto the GreyMist wagon and doesn't show a lot of interest in the lynch.
However, it is also possible that he was genuinely busy, and he was certainly not the only one to show disinterest in the lynch.
Look the issue isn't his sheeping onto the greymist wagon. The issue is if he really thought GreYMisT was scum, he'd have been more active with it. This is part of a pattern, a pattern of TPS not really carring about the game. Maybe each piece of evidence on its own wouldn't mean much, but all these things together are indicators that TPS isn't in this for the town, he's in this for scum.
He BACKED OFF From the thread as GM picked up steam. Who does that? What is the town motivation for doing that?
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Why the hell is there a push on VE?
dude is supertown.
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On March 20 2013 06:13 layabout wrote:
Why the hell is there a push on VE?
dude is supertown.
I just want to see where it's going. I wouldn't say I'm supertown, but I'm certainly not the scummiest in the thread by far. LOL
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On March 20 2013 00:27 ThePeashooter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 21:39 kitaman27 wrote:On March 19 2013 17:09 Ace wrote:
Why would you claim Vet though as Town? Even if the Scum clearly know they shot you, they have no idea how the hit failed. Roleclaiming serves no purpose here. To be clear, are you inferring that you believe VE isn't town because a town VE would have no reason to claim vet or are you lecturing VE for a poor decision? Unless someone else claims a hit, I see no reason to doubt the hit with only one flip. Keirathi could have been a doublestack, but its pretty unlikely. Unless VE is still around 5 cycles from now I imagine the claim will take care of itself. On March 19 2013 12:48 VisceraEyes wrote:
Kita what do you think of BH this game? TELL ME THE TRUTH!!! *hexhexhex* I'll get back to you after I get a chance to read through the logs. If I don't, remind me. I'm having trouble looking for a post if someone recalls it. There was a player who posted a bunch of links to a past game, without commenting on the content. I looked 3 times through the thread and couldn't find it, so I might just be crazy, but I was hoping to see if they ever followed up with it. @TPS. If you can confirm/deny your identity as yamato, I believe it will give me a clue to your alignment based on one of your earlier posts and it is something not related to the Vivax guess. If you are town, you would surely be willing to reveal this small piece of information. I'll come up with a much larger post tonight when I actually have more time, without getting interrupted every 3 minutes. This is the only indulging I am going to do and it is solely because I like Kitaman. I actually don't even know who he is. I have purposely ignored every question pertaining to this because I don't find it relevant and any other guesses will be firmly ignored.
It is relevant, TPS, and here's why. Earlier, you posted this:
On March 17 2013 02:21 ThePeashooter wrote:
I don't have to be familiar with Coagulations play to objectively view something as bad for the town and scummy.
Implying that you were unaware of coag's meta and that he's scum for what he's done. The thing is, if you're like WBG or someone familiar with coag, then you're absolutely double-scum. But if you're Yamato77 who's never played with coag, then this might be believable. And yet you continue to conceal who you really are from town. Perhaps you have some good reason for this, but I doubt it's a reason other than "I am scum and I have been caught by the sexy, manly, delicious Blazinghand"
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On March 20 2013 06:16 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 06:13 layabout wrote:
Why the hell is there a push on VE?
dude is supertown. I just want to see where it's going. I wouldn't say I'm supertown, but I'm certainly not the scummiest in the thread by far. LOL
Maybe no one knows your meta.
What do you think about all mason's claiming?
We can leave BH alive for mafia to waste a shot on but i get the impression there are quite a few and one of em has to be scum.
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On March 20 2013 00:57 ThePeashooter wrote:
I meant to say who "I actually don't even know who Yamato is"
Now I know I'm a bit biased here so I'm going to ask both Ace and Kitaman for a favor here. I would like you to read WadeFall's filter. The reason I want someone else to do this is because I am without a doubt biased against Wade Fall and I feel as though it needs to be done by someone competent.
I accept that Wade is stupid, however I believe he crossed the line from just being stupid to actively lying and overextending his reads on me to sway town to lynch me which is an extremely scummy thing. I noticed he was doing it yesterday but it wasn't as overt.
If it wasn't overt that I was trying to lynch you yesterday you need to read the thread better.
On March 20 2013 00:57 ThePeashooter wrote:
Let me dissect his accusation post as an example of what I am talking about so there is a point of reference.
You can certainly try.
On March 20 2013 00:57 ThePeashooter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 15:57 Wade Fell wrote:On March 19 2013 15:43 Keirathi wrote:
As an aside, lets do some setup speculation.
How likely is it that there are 2 town aligned masons, with Nightmare already flipping? Granted, Nightmare was a mason-vig, but Mason is a pretty damn strong role. In games with temporary masons, you don't often see them so lopsided, numbers wise :o I hate setup speculation, but yes, this is an entirely reasonable point in the context of speculating about the setup. I can understand VE's reasoning for outing me, especially given that this is the case. I don't really have an answer for this other than that I am a town-aligned mason role, and although it's weird it's not unthinkable, and DrH is a wiley fellow.
Okay so lists posts are crap right so I'm gonna keep it short and simple, here are my two scumreads I want to lynch today, and why we should lynch them. I'm leaving wiggles, testsubj, geript wos ryu dp etc unmentioned because they are not my top 2 scumreads and I want to stay focused. Each of them individually has things I dislike about them but barring a something weird happenign with the daypost I won't be pushing them.If that changes and I am still alive, I will let you know. 1) thepeashooter: I've talked a lot about TPS in thread already but mainly I'm concerned about his attempts to _look_ like he's contributing without actually doing it. I'm like 90% sure his "anger" at my spamming is faked given that you had the same filter length as me at the time and his response to it was to just quote a bunch of my posts. I said this multiple times. I don't care about how many posts you have as long as they are actual content. I said this multiple times but for some reason he chooses to ignore this and continue pretending all I care about is post count. Furthermore, he is trying to say my anger is fake. He knows for a fact its not fake since I reported him to the host for spamming even after I asked him to shut the fuck up both nicely then directly. You know I was genuinely annoyed yet you are going to pretend you think I wasn't only because it serves a purpose. This is the definition of malicious intent.
The fact of the matter is, you reporting me to the host says nothing about the veracity of your anger. Why not report me to the host with your fake madness? Hell, if you get me modkilled you'll look even better, and have the perfect excuse for not contributing D1. "Look how mad I was, I was so mad I got Blazinghand modkilled, that's why I did nothing useful day 1". I find it particularly clever that you, who tried to get me modkilled are accusing me of malicious intent. No, it is your fake madness that led to a huge opt-out of D1 discourse that serves malicious intent, and I will NOT let you get away with it.
On March 20 2013 00:57 ThePeashooter wrote:Show nested quote +He's done a pretty slick job of not contributing to the game and looking like an "emotional townie". Why would he quote all my posts and complain about my filter length when at the time Ve has the same level of spam? (link) this doesn't read "angry town" to me, it reads "fake anger". Please illustrate how I have not contributed at all? You have pretty much done two things, spam and try to kill me but somehow I am the one who has contributed nothing. You give no example apart from you saying it is so. Show nested quote +His weird opt-out of the town discourse D1 (link) is scummy, as well as the fact he had to be forcefully prodded into contributing. This is my favorite part. His example of me "opting out" of town discourse is a link to him just saying that I did that. At no point did I ever say fuck you for not wanting to lynch Coag and ran away to my cave until the cycle was over. He was one of a couple of people (the other being Coag) who kept pointing out how I abandoned the thread and went inactive even though my most recent posts at the time indicated that I was at work. By "Forceful Prodding" he actually meant "got home from work".
You basically DID run away to your cave until the cycle was over. You only weighed in on GK after being pressured on it and you still haven't said anything about DarthPunk AT ALL despite the fact that he was one of the main lynch contendors D1. How do you push GM without even saying SOMETHING about DP? You ran away from the lynch and hid in your cave, and you joke that you didn't but that's literally what you did.
On March 20 2013 00:57 ThePeashooter wrote:Show nested quote +I don't buy his theory that he wanted to "let it play out" with GM rather than (link) actively interacting with the case. Imagine you are a townie in this situation. Do you engage and try to get an understanding of what's going on and push your own reads, or even ask questions to refine them? Or do you hang back and "let it play out"? Even if you hang back, you at least ask questions and try to learn more. This is not what town does, this think that TPS has done. A lot of his other posts aren't analysis but are just dismissals (link)(link)(link) in which he doesn't push his own ideas but just naysays what other people have to say. I will be voting for TPS when the daypost goes up based on this. The only semi legitimate point I suppose so I will elaborate on my train of thought. I know greymist is a veteran player and I was immediately suspicious of him. My notes on him are a link to his first post and a comment that "You can do better than this." I was simply waiting him out and didn't want to give him a reason to go on the defensive if he knew I was suspicious.
So you soft-pushed GM because you didn't want him to... know you were suspicous? Why conceal your motives from town?
On March 20 2013 00:57 ThePeashooter wrote:
On top of this I was already pushing Coagulation who I still wouldn't mind seeing dead. As I stated earlier, there is no reason to push all 5 of your scum candidates at once if you can only kill one at a time. I'd prefer to pressure one and see how the others respond to that pressure.
See again you're losing me here because if you wouldn't mind seeing coag dead, you'd be really "pushing" him, but you weren't "already pushing" him you made a vote then failed to follow up or engage directly with our meta claims. If you wanted coag dead why weren't you arguing with people in thread about him? you didn't REALLY want coag dead, or else it would be CLEAR you want coag dead by you fighting to kill him.
On March 20 2013 00:57 ThePeashooter wrote:The last part of that is my hopping on the band wagon to kill Greymist. As I said earlier I had been at work and got caught up that night and I wasn't exactly sure when the day post was coming. I saw Greymist thrown out as an alternative to Zare and I knew for a fact that I thought greymist was scummy and was pretty sure I had a townread on Zare at the time. So I chose to change my vote to greymist. I didn't have time to actually post a case or do analysis because I was not home. So I admit, both scenario's are possible, but I feel that I have adequately explained my reasoning for not having said anything about greymist until passively voting for him. If you want further evidence of my reasoning for not listing every single read you can find me speaking to Vivax here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402057¤tpage=39#763
Look how convenient it is that you back away from the thread, that you "want" coag dead but dont' push him, that you're suspicious of GM but don't want to share your thought process with him or the rest of the town, that you only spoke of GK when pressured and you STILL have said nothing about DP. You think my case on you is scummy? My case on you is JUSTICE. It is the TRUTH. And you will hang for it.
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On March 20 2013 04:33 ThePeashooter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 04:16 Coagulation wrote:
hey guys reading up on thread now. Feel free to ask me any questions.
peashooter spent a good amount of energy effort trying to rally a lynch on me. Im pretty much the easy lynch in every game so its not uncommon for scum to try and push town into lynching me. Its strange to me that there are so many people who have put me in as a town read already. I dont think I should be a town read for anyone just yet. but its a good thing at any rate cause im town.
I wouldnt mind having peashooter lynched just on the basis that he was willing to let town run in circles over his identity while saying nothing. that seems fairly anti town. like hes trying to milk the speculation for all the chaos it can possibly generate. You know I'm beginning to see why Greymist let himself get lynched. If we have townies like you we don't even need scum.
YOU THINK COAG IS SCUM
WTF
Do you think he's scum or town? Or are yous cum pushing his mislynch and did you just tell us the truth, the TRUTH that you know, that COAG IS TOWN and YOU KNOW IT.
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for what its worth I have felt like literally zero pressure from ThePeashooter. He comes off as trying to make me mad more than trying to make me hang.
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EPT
