|
On March 18 2013 12:15 sciberbia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 09:19 sciberbia wrote:On March 17 2013 08:51 zarepath wrote:On March 17 2013 08:45 cosmicomics wrote:On March 17 2013 06:16 layabout wrote:On March 17 2013 05:51 cosmicomics wrote:On March 16 2013 23:42 Vivax wrote:
Sandro:
I don't like this post.
Quick conclusions. No arguments, no read on BH and VE (just being silly) and conclusive reads on people I actually find scummy. Townish reads on a guy who contributed something pointless. Not the sandro I would expect as town. Leaning red.
What does town sandro look like? What do you think of DarthPunk? You can see in the nested quotes that geript drops RNG for setup spec "I thought I couldn't use it from what was said in pregame and the tarot stuff got me interested." and then moves into asking about a different topic "How do you feel about this being based on some sort of tarot stuff?" So DarthPunk is acting as if geript is still attempting his RNG stuff (he isn't) and trying to lynch him off that, and doesn't actually address him. How do you get so mad at someone you totally dismiss his posting so quickly?
##Vote: DarthPunk
At the same time, do you really see scum laying a vote down that early? I'll have to check, but I dont' think thread sentiment was exactly pushing for a geript lynch. On March 18 2013 09:03 zarepath wrote:
Okay, I just poked in to catch up as much as I can -- sorry that I am looking scummy; I will be able to participate much more during the week (as opposed to the weekend) and will hopefully be able to prove my alignment in a better fashion than I have thus far.
Darth Punk was one of something like 8 different people I suspected yesterday, and from the last couple of pages it seems as though his defense of other people's pressure hasn't been stellar. Mainly, all of his reads have been people who have been pressuring him, and much of his text is defending the first day of his game, not actively trying to find out who is scum.
The people he lists as scum suspects are not people he's trying to get others to lynch; it's entirely responsive.
I don't know if anybody else has mentioned this, but his first post seemed almost suspiciously over the top (I'm so excited for this game!), and that's another reason I feel okay about lynching him.
I wish I'd had time to look over some more candidates, but at this moment (and time is running short) I don't feel too bad about throwing my vote onto DarthPunk.
##Vote: DarthPunk Why did you defend DP from cosmicomics yesterday if you thought his first post was suspiciously over the top and you suspected him? @zarepath Can you answer to this?
This is a good point. It wasn't a soft defense so much as something that needed to be considered and answered if you were to make a case on him. He'd been on my radar at the time. Tonight, when I started trying to catch up, I saw DP's defenses which seemed really OMGUSy and a total lack of pro-town argument (other than prevent his own mislynch), and figured it was a good vote -- for some reaosn I thought the lynch deadline was going to be quite soon, and was actually worried that I'd already missed it when I came into the thread and just tried to get a vote down asaply.
Now I'm on greymist because I think it's coming down between me and him, and I don't like his pattern of seeding suspicion onto players and then acting unsure, or letting others do the work.
|
On March 16 2013 16:22 ThePeashooter wrote:
I have no idea how the quoting got messed up, but Devil and Nightmare should both be red. I imagine Devil would be some type of Godfather-ish role.
I am re-reading through the thread right now, but this makes me think that TPS is town.
|
On March 18 2013 23:35 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 23:26 zarepath wrote:On March 16 2013 16:22 ThePeashooter wrote:
I have no idea how the quoting got messed up, but Devil and Nightmare should both be red. I imagine Devil would be some type of Godfather-ish role. I am re-reading through the thread right now, but this makes me think that TPS is town. What? Why? Zare you REALLY have to start giving more than that to alleviate suspicion. I don't see how mis-speculating on roles is anything but null.
I don't think scum would speculate wrong on purpose on something as dumb and useless as that.
To Vivax, I have several issues with your argument. First of all, I find it pretty dumb to be 100% confident of three people all being on a scum team; that's association before flip. Secondly, your only real problem with my statement is that you say I am clearly a scum defending a scum player, which requires both of us to be scum for your argument to work on any level, and
And thirdly, you're right, if I thought I had nothing to add, I wouldn't do it -- and I didn't, until people called me out to specifically comment on both wagons. I gave my impressions while acknowledging that others have felt the same way, and they're not unique thoughts.
I think that if you are suspicious of a group of three players, you should look at them individually and not based on their interactions with each other until one of them flip. And i especially don't see why you would want to lynch me if you're confident that all three are scum, since the entirety of your argument against me assumes that GK is scum, and you have made no argument as to why I am scum based off of my own actions. (Note that others have, but you haven't.)
I am going back to re-reading the thread now.
|
EBWOP: "which requires both of us to be scum for your argument to work on any level, and..." if you're now so 100% confident of those three people, how come you didn't vote for any of them yesterday? You were quicker to lynch GreyMist than the others yourself.
|
Yeah, that was the longest tunnel in this thread
|
I think that if TPS were town he would have at this point told us whether Vivax was guessing or not, because right now it makes both of them look scummy.
|
And if he's town he'd rather clear Vivax's name from a potential mislynch than let him hang dry like that.
|
Let me get this case out before Ace replaces in. Take a look at his filter.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 16 2013 11:28 Hopeless1der wrote:
454471 Very pro-town here On March 16 2013 23:38 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 22:05 zarepath wrote:On March 16 2013 16:46 Coagulation wrote:
im town thank god In the last game I played, literally every single person who claimed town in their opening post was scum. On March 16 2013 16:46 VisceraEyes wrote:
Hi I'm town yadda yadda. BH you wanna try and get a read on me before I go to bed? VE did say in the analysis that he always claims town no matter what, though. But seriously, what is the town motivation for claiming town so early? There's more scum motivation than town motivation. On March 16 2013 17:10 VisceraEyes wrote:
Maybe next time sport. Tell me, what do you make of geript and his RNG shenanigans? It's said that he RNG'd before the game started and that rather than using the name he drew, he RNG'd AGAIN when the game started! How exciting is that?!
Now, as we know, scum aren't likely to put their scumbuddy up for lynch so easily, so the supposition is that geript and zarepath are scumbuddies, and geript didn't want to put his buddy up for lynch! What do you say to THAT?! Yeah, I reject this notion for obvious reasons, but also for the fact that this is already an association case, isn't it? Granted, I suppose if you assume that there are scum motivations for him switching his RNG, the most obvious reason would be because his original RNG was going to hit scum. But wasn't he told he couldn't use that anyway and have it count as a real RNG? And again, you're already operating on the assumption the switch was scum-motivated. VE's super awesome team sounds dumb. I can't see how any self-respecting scum hunter would agree to unite their votes with 4 other active people no matter what. And honestly, don't the self-respecting scum hunters kind of unite with each other as they prove themselves to each other anyway? I am much more in favor of a "lead scumhunting team" coming about organically from the good scum-hunters recognizing each other as being good than VE deciding who is good and then telling them how to vote. Also, I find all role and setup speculation stupid at this point; even regarding the fact that the OP suggests the possibility of victory conditions changing throughout the game, I don't see how town is better served in finding scum through role speculation without any information with which to base it on, and I don't see why town would want to do anything other than promote a pro-town atmosphere and find scum on the first day regardless of the setup. /offtopic: flavor is awesome  The use of anecdotal evidence to push a non-existent policy is pretty scummy here. Unless lynching townclaims has become a thing. Is this what the kenpachi rule is for, or is that only for kenpachi? So uh, how about the part where he directly acknowledges that VE always opens up with a "hai I'm town" to some degree, and in spite of this, the townclaim is scummy? It should be read as null, every time, unless there's some meta "tone" read that I can't pick up on. Overall, I read through this post and zarepath keeps playing devil's advocate with himself and answering his own questions. There is no mindset of wanting to solve the game to me. I think he's scum. I think that he assumes a LOT out of my post, and twists my words and tone quite a bit. I'm aware that this piece of evidence borders on OMGUS, but I objectively think that it's odd he jumps on my first post, but not other first posts that seem much more headscratchworthy. What bugs me is that he is certain I am scum because I am uncertain. I think the only certain people that early on Day 1 are scum. On March 18 2013 01:38 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 00:06 kitaman27 wrote:On March 17 2013 13:21 Vivax wrote:
Yamato i think coagulation is not a good choice for d1 for reasons wf pointed out ...is this a scum slip? As far as I know, ThePeashooter's identity as Yamato is not public knowledge. Was it revealed at any point in the thread? Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 13:21 Vivax wrote:
Yamato i think coagulation is not a good choice for d1 for reasons wf pointed out, gk isnt either i think.
Since i think you're the guy i just mentioned i might actually change my mind about you. Could you look at cosmicomics when you have time? Also sandro and especially his town meta. Never seen him make such an entrance. Its like he isn't sure TPS is 100%Yamato or something? Vivax seems to have some history of sniffing out smurfs, so maybe scumslip, maybe not. I will say that if it is Yam+Vivax again (See Fruity Mafia) that'd be kind of fucked up (but still possible). I dun got sniped =\
ZarepathI'm voting to lynch zarepath as supported by DYH and sciberbia , in addition to my initial reaction to zare. There's enough in the thread on him without me rehashing it. ##Vote: Zarepath
GKBH's meta argument about GK being town just doesnt do it for me. GK has done some scummy shit, like tearing into the SAST idea with malicious intent. Generally disruptive tactic, especially as it doesn't lead to VE being scum or town or anything. There is also his change in stance from sandroba is being reasonable in his assessment (@Ryu at the end) to sandroba lurks like a bawse as scum, so i'll vote him for being lurkerishIn that last read post, he's wishy washy on TPS, who seems to have a decent mob following his lynch, and who I also wouldn't mind seeing flip.
TPSMostly, I dislike TPS' tunnel into coagulation and assuming anti-town = scum, when multiple people can vouch for the fact that coag is just like this when he plays. If TPS is in fact Yamato he should know this. Again, see Fruity MafiaIf its not yamato, then TPS is still refusing to consider an established meta that suggests his initial reasons for calling coag are wrong. There is some merit in his followup, but if coag had reacted with less indignation, I feel he'd have nothing to continue his tunnel with. Also, quoting BH 100 times and then neglecting to want to lynch him is faking the rage to me. Would lynch. This is his biggest post, and he spends much more time on the people he's NOT voting for (but others are talking about), and mentioning that he wouldn't mind seeing them flip -- but his entire case on the person he IS voting for, zarepath, is "supported by X and Y." Why isn't it supported by arguments? Why is this constructed in terms of people supporting his read, and not on his read being confirmed by specific actions of mine? On March 18 2013 02:03 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 01:52 Vivax wrote:
@ Glurio, trance, Goodkarma
We currently have the same objectives for lynch I support either of the three candidates so we should probably pick the best out of them.
I feel like DYH has committed himself to posting that way and should not be prioritized. If he stops contributing we will notice and if he keeps it up we only gain more information about him so I think sandro and cosmicomics have higher priority.
Given cosmicomics strange defense by offense I think these two are possibly scumbuddies, more people might be opposed to lynching sandro cause he's considered (grrr...) a vet so maybe we should agree on cosmic?
Can you give your insight on what I wrote about him? I personally think you are wrong about cosmic. Or were you specifically asking the three you noted? He doesn't say why he thinks he's wrong. Just giving a town read without backing it up, and then doesn't go into the other two at all. On March 18 2013 02:22 Hopeless1der wrote:
The thread is all "sandroba lurk = scum".
GreYMisT is all "not enough to lynch, what else u got?". This isn't an argument, this is pitting GreyMist against "the thread." He's not thinking in terms of arguments; he's thinking in terms of The Thread. On March 18 2013 03:08 Hopeless1der wrote:But why? for "scumslip"? what else you got bro? Also, any thoughts on zarepath? He wants more on zarepath without offering anything else on zarepath. He cuts down an argument but doesn't break it apart or address it rationally; that's a little more null, though. On March 18 2013 03:53 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 03:38 VisceraEyes wrote:
Hoeless you too please, I think this is the lynch. DarthPunk. On the basis of the failed pressure vote, I don't find sufficient reason to call him scum. However, people need to learn that if you aren't willing to follow through, pressure voting is the same as typing "fuck you too" and calling it a day. On the basis of OMGUS'ing cosmic, DP will do that as either alignment. I also missed where he "goes after lurkers" as you accuse him of. He goes after geript for RNG bullshit and cosmic for "misinterpretations" His lack of real scum reads to date is the only thing that really concerns me. His argument with BH is that he found the reasons for defending GK wrong. Even if he town-read GK, I don't think this is a scummy or contradictory action. He also didn't really defend GK, he primarily wanted to defer lynching him because GK can be useful and DP says he can figure GK out. I'm not inclined to vote DP today. Hopeless has spent more energy on why people aren't scum than why they are. DP isn't scum, cosmic isn't scum, Vivax absolutely didn't make a slip, by the way, what do you think about zarepath? Then see this: On March 18 2013 04:17 Hopeless1der wrote:
Okay I'm seeing what's up with DP now. tbh I still want to lynch Zarepath, but I can consolidate onto DP if need be. To be fair he was modkilled after this, but it's odd how he's so incredibly consistent on his zarepath read, despite not adding to it or expanding upon it at all except for that one post at the beginning, but very inconsistent on his town read of DP -- based upon the need for consolidation, not upon the likeliness of scumminess. In the end I think the arc of his reads Day 1 was strange, and the framing of his arguments for the person he was most certain of voting for were very strange. I think that Hopeless1der is scum, and it's unfortunate that Ace, the person who literally wrote the book on playing TL scum, is replacing him.
|
EBWOP: That is a case for Hopeless1der, and hence Ace, being scum.
|
Are you Yamato or what? The longer you don't respond to this scumslip narrative the more you're allowing us to mislynch Vivax should he be town.
|
On March 19 2013 02:54 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 02:50 zarepath wrote:
Are you Yamato or what? The longer you don't respond to this scumslip narrative the more you're allowing us to mislynch Vivax should he be town. Are you serious? This was dealt with forever ago.
If by "dealt with" you mean where he said "I assumed he was trying to figure out if I was a smurf so I ignored it?" I'm not satisfied with that answer. If he can simply say "I'm not Yamato" then town stops thinking they share a QT.
|
Hey WoS, are you a vanilla townie?
|
EBWOP: Never mind, I will bring it up beginning of D2.
|
It is odd how unwilling he is to say that he is or isn't Yamato
|
Vivax I stop reading your posts as soon as you make reads on others based on the fact that I am scum.
Like, you are wasting tons and tons of time and energy based off of my poor play. Please do yourself and everyone else a favor and make cases on people without me being scum as the prime argument.
Back to work now.
|
On March 19 2013 09:06 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 09:01 zarepath wrote:
Vivax I stop reading your posts as soon as you make reads on others based on the fact that I am scum.
Like, you are wasting tons and tons of time and energy based off of my poor play. Please do yourself and everyone else a favor and make cases on people without me being scum as the prime argument.
Back to work now. What should I do, you guys defended each other so obviously it becomes evident to those who start by looking at your voting. FYI though, my case on you, GK and cosmicomics isn't centered on the connection to you, that is just what links you together in the bigger picture and actually gave away TPS and glurio to me. Why do you refer to your play as poor though?
Because I'm town and too many people think that I'm not. I didn't have much time to play over the weekend and wasted it by saying noncommittal things and then bouncing, making it look worse.
|
On March 19 2013 09:28 goodkarma wrote:
Okay I'm back in thread now. I'm slowly going through other people's filters. But the first one I'd like to bring up is Zarepath, since it seems Vivax is eager to see what I have to say about him.
First off, before anything else, I would like to say (and I believe others have said it too) to Vivax that an association based case on multiple unflipped players is flat-out bad. Putting that aside though, Zarepath is a player I put in the category of newer, less experienced player. When such a player is town he tends to be easier to mislynch, as he has not adopted his own solid playstyle yet. Looking into Zarepath's filter, he's been quite lazy about sharing his reads. His excuses have been "I'm new to this format," and "I'll be far more active during the week." Well, he should have at least gotten orientated to the format by now, and it is now a weekday. As such, I expect to see an explosion of activity from him. I believe the concerns about him are valid, and that he indeed is acting very scummy. It's also worth noting he does seem to be much more involved in his past town games, and as such I'd say I'm leaning scum on him. Certainly, he needs to be sharing his reads much better than he is right now so we can get better insight into his thought process.
What did you think of my case on Hopeless1der? Nobody has responded to it yet.
In other news, I like Trance's point on Wiggles -- his post could be scum prepping for a Greymist town flip. Will be looking into that more.
|
So after looking through Wiggle's filter, he starts off not liking GreyMist or goodkarma, both of which were already under suspicion by other players. After that, everything else he says is defending a player -- he defends Coag's meta, he suggests that people's arguments against TPS aren't good enough (while also stating that he doesn't know how he feels about the guy himself -- wait and see), when asked specifically to talk about Coag he makes a super long post that ends up with a tl;dr of "wait and see", says he's going to take some time to digest goodkarma's defense, defends Vivax against the suggestion of a scumslip, says that VE's case on DP isn't that strong, then criticizes a DYH lynch.
His final vote/read that he actually sticks to is one he only makes after sciberbia specifically asks him what he thinks about GM and GK, and he ends up picking GM, and his first reason why is "as I stated earlier in the thread;" ie, I was totally thinking he was scum the whole time even while I was voting for GK, the guy I no longer thing is scum. BTW, he really likes Ryu's case on him, and uses that in his argument.
Then you have the post that Trance brought up. It looks a lot like he spent most of D1 criticizing arguments and not actually going after scum, and when he finally had to pick, he was apologetic for it and seems to be prepping himself for a town flip.
I read him as scum until he provides some cases or reads, because so far he has only suspected two people, one of which he unvoted and the other one he was almost apologetic about voting for.
|
Can you explain how your super strong town read only had two people he suspected, one of which flipped blue, and has said nothing post-flip?
I don't think that shutting down cases is that necessarily pro-town when you have no other real suspects of your own. It is easy and risk-free to shut down rogue cases that threaten to gain traction when the main suspects aren't scum.
|
On March 19 2013 11:15 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 11:12 zarepath wrote:
Can you explain how your super strong town read only had two people he suspected, one of which flipped blue, and has said nothing post-flip?
I don't think that shutting down cases is that necessarily pro-town when you have no other real suspects of your own. It is easy and risk-free to shut down rogue cases that threaten to gain traction when the main suspects aren't scum. Except that GM DID look scummy, and I have yet to read into GK and see what the thoughts are regarding him. How exactly did he have no suspects of his own?
He literally only voted for GM when sciberbia asked him what he thought about GM, at whcih point he was like "Oh, the things that I said at the beginning of the game, that's why he's scum, also what Ryu said. Vote:GM." Then later he says "Maybe GM is town but oh well he's playing so poorly, I don't have time to switch."
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
