EPTWhat exactly did I do here that you all saw. I was just re-reading the thread an noted the peculiarity of the chosen names.
Fruity Mafia - Page 89
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
What exactly did I do here that you all saw. I was just re-reading the thread an noted the peculiarity of the chosen names. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On February 20 2013 18:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Well, I think that part specifically is because no one dares to attack syllo/sandro as they have a reputation of figuring out each other's alignment easily. Scum knew they had to paint both Syllo and Sandro as scum if they wanted to get them lynched, which would've been a very hard thing to do. Some of this is obviously very easy to say after the game is over and not as easy to do when actually playing. And it's a little more difficult in this game since most people are aware of how syllo and sandro generally play but I feel that the goal should be to get some obstinate townie stuck on the idea that one/both are scum in plain sight just complaining about how nothing is happening but no willing to do anything themselves. I think there was even a decent opportunity at some point when sandroba mentioned that he was suspicious of sandroba for not doing anything? Why not make this a big deal, why just sit silent about that. It doesn't need to constantly be repeated by mafia, but it definitely shouldn't just be allowed to disappear. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On February 20 2013 18:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Well, I think that part specifically is because no one dares to attack syllo/sandro as they have a reputation of figuring out each other's alignment easily. Scum knew they had to paint both Syllo and Sandro as scum if they wanted to get them lynched, which would've been a very hard thing to do. that's the fear talking. As scum it's certainly possible to appear town to syllo/sandro, and it's certainly possible even to get them lynched. (I would say even in this game that it was possible to shoot syllo and get away with it...probably would've been easier to shoot marv or super, but still) I've done it myself (granted, this was over a year ago). Sandro in particular can attest to the fact that I always appear townie to him  | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Look at how people reacted to Vivax this game and in LIX. They complained to all hell about his play but never killed him. He was never close to getting lynched either time, and certainly people would only do it for policy. That's a great position to be in-use the fact that no one wants to kill you to your advantage. The same could be said about Toad. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On February 20 2013 18:34 wherebugsgo wrote: btw I think both Vivax and Toad are perfect candidates to simply shoot someone or push a lynch and get away with it scot-free. Look at how people reacted to Vivax this game and in LIX. They complained to all hell about his play but never killed him. He was never close to getting lynched either time, and certainly people would only do it for policy. That's a great position to be in-use the fact that no one wants to kill you to your advantage. The same could be said about Toad. we had it planned actually. Vivax wanted to use the dayvig from the beginning to bus someone to make one of us look good (I completly disagree with it and was quite forceful about not using the dayvig against ourselves). I think I said something like "let's just do the Palmar once we've dealt with 1 or two vets" in our chat. It just never came to the situation that we were in a position to kill someone and I didn't want to do it on d1. I don't think I would get away with it at all though, but yeah, we gave the Day-vig to vivax for that specific reason, because he could get away with it. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12973 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
You just use it on someone who is being dumb/not reading or being controversial. You do whatever it takes to pass it off later. Also using it on your own team is colossally stupid. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On February 20 2013 18:55 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I think the dayvig would be very problematic for scum actually given the role I had. Town having two kp roles tends to be unlikely, and my role would be a far more unlikely one for scum to have than a dayvig so I'm not quite sure Vivax could get away with it. yes that's what went trough my head as well. Edit: It's still say the roles were favoring town to be honest, or it at least made it really hard for us.
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I could have removed the jailkeeper and the parity cop and you guys still would've lost-the roles weren't to blame here. You can perhaps make an argument that the dayvig is hard to use given the other KP role, but that was intentional on my part. You guys knew you had to be active given the role you were given and you chose not to be. Asking for a normal vig simply reinforces this point. Sure, it would have made it easier to use the KP, but since when have I been a fan of easy-to-use power roles? The confirmation was not hard to deal with, given that the RB would have completely nullified the role. You guys got shot by it instead of influencing the shot. Just because town has a vig doesn't mean it's going to always hit mafia. Had risk actually done anything at all it could easily have been someone like Mattchew or coag on the receiving end of the bullet. e: also you gave the roleblocker to the guy likeliest to get shot. You have more info than town given that you are on the mafia team. Doubling roles on mafia and town has been a common theme for many games. The game I cohosted with Incog for example; almost every blue was duplicated on the mafia side (mafia had a jack + double voter, so did town, and something else too; medic I think?) get the vig to shoot a townie and you can RB him after. You can shoot him too. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On February 20 2013 19:15 wherebugsgo wrote: you guys would've had the same problem even with different roles. The jailkeeper didn't even do anything. I could have removed the jailkeeper and the parity cop and you guys still would've lost-the roles weren't to blame here. You can perhaps make an argument that the dayvig is hard to use given the other KP role, but that was intentional on my part. You guys knew you had to be active given the role you were given and you chose not to be. Asking for a normal vig simply reinforces this point. Sure, it would have made it easier to use the KP, but since when have I been a fan of easy-to-use power roles? The confirmation was not hard to deal with, given that the RB would have completely nullified the role. You guys got shot by it instead of influencing the shot. Just because town has a vig doesn't mean it's going to always hit mafia. Had risk actually done anything at all it could easily have been someone like Mattchew or coag on the receiving end of the bullet. Agree, it didn't make a difference and it didn't come into play but it's part of the reasoning we were frustrated and didn't play active. At least for me. I mean we lost by d2 and still got incredibly lucky with what happened. Like you said jailer did nothing when he could have made both Syllo and Sandro 100% invulnerable. I seriously (no joking) tossed a coin to decide wether we wanted to shoot Sandro or Syllo because I figured the Jailer is going to protect either of those 2. It could have been way worse for us with the way the roles ended up being. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On February 20 2013 19:17 Toadesstern wrote: Agree, it didn't make a difference and it didn't come into play but it's part of the reasoning we were frustrated and didn't play active. At least for me. you gave up when the game started, so no, that's not true at all. I think you're looking for excuses here. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On February 20 2013 19:18 wherebugsgo wrote: you gave up when the game started, so no, that's not true at all. I think you're looking for excuses here. I didn't give up when the game started. I got really frustrated when Sandro ended up surviving, I still pulled that vig stunt that people considered to be really good, so we still played the game at that time. It just got gradually worse with every hour and I stopped playing when risk got shot. I think I said something like I'm playing boardgames with friends and came back to the thread seeing risk dead. | ||
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risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
On February 20 2013 19:18 wherebugsgo wrote: you gave up when the game started, so no, that's not true at all. I think you're looking for excuses here. You're the one trying to excuse that your setup was heavily imbalanced. Give it a rest, your denial of this fact and continuous arguments and attempts to justify it is starting to piss me off. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
Certainly the utter rout that occurred was not because of the setup. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
This game was at best slightly town favored. Had you guys been given the gun (unlikely, but possible if the RNG had made the teams different) and had some random guy been given the vet role then perhaps it would be town saying that the game was imbalanced. You guys lost despite the parity cop and the jailkeeper not doing anything at all. That's not due to imbalance. | ||
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risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
I know some hosts do this more then others to ensure the teams are as fair as possible. I also know some hosts as yourself dislike doing it. When a game is over, for a player there is nothing as frustrating as to look at a setup and see that it was heavily favored one way or another. More so if you were on the loosing side and put in a lot of effort. And favor doesn't just come from the setup, the players are also a factor. A hosts job is to make sure these frustrating scenarios doesn't happen. Knowing it was imbalanced and writing it of as bad luck because of the RNG isn't acceptable imo. You have a responsibility to your players to try to balance this game, and that should be prioritized before your code of never re-RNG. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
That's at most slightly town favored. e: mafia doesn't even have to use the vig; they can save it until lylo or vig the highest priority target if they are ever about to be lynched. It might have even been possible to force nolynch with the vig as it could be used at any time. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18464 Posts
On February 20 2013 17:51 wherebugsgo wrote: it's kind of a grey area. I personally don't mention those things (anymore) but they do influence how I play. This. It's not just other threads either: I have quite a few mafia players on skype and steam, so you simply get more information about a player's activity than by just reading the thread. However, it's sort of an honor code (some hosts make it a rule) to not use this information in the thread (it will influence what you think, regardless). | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
It's just not fun. Like, from the play in this game, I could guess marv was scum in themed. From Syl's play in the newbie i was cohosting, I also could guess he was town in themed. And it sucks to have to ignore stuff like that. Not the ingoring part, what sucks is that it even happens. Just one more reason for people to not play 2 games at a time. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
killing strong players can be great but there were other people in this game that looked town and would not get protected. | ||
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