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Fruity Mafia - Page 88
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I have some notes based on stuff I noticed-I can post some ideas I had while watching the game unfold. | ||
yamato77
11589 Posts
I know you don't like me but I'm trying to get better at this game >-> | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On February 20 2013 15:29 yamato77 wrote: I would I know you don't like me but I'm trying to get better at this game >-> Wat Don't take this the wrong way-as town I don't like some of the things you do (true about lots of people) and I'll be blunt about that, but it doesn't mean I don't like you as a player/person. I rage at Toad all the time for saying stupid shit but I still think he can play quite well sometimes :p | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On February 20 2013 15:33 wherebugsgo wrote: Wat Don't take this the wrong way-as town I don't like some of the things you do (true about lots of people) and I'll be blunt about that, but it doesn't mean I don't like you as a player/person. I rage at Toad all the time for saying stupid shit but I still think he can play quite well sometimes :p awwwww :3 when I rage about you I mean it and I think you can't play at all. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On February 20 2013 16:03 Toadesstern wrote: awwwww :3 when I rage about you I mean it and I think you can't play at all. hahaha I know | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
e: it's not that embarrassing anyway | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I'd put most of the town players in this game into groups. Were relatively townie, but didn't do much: (average townie group) HiroPro Hopeless1der Artanis layabout ObviousOne (later) Didn't do much-could have been lynched easily Mattchew grush Coag ObviousOne (earlier) could probably have been egged on, creating chaos marv super coag had good reads syllo sandro (to a lesser extent) super marv I'm obviously being very lazy here and generalising like fuck (some of the characterisations may be inaccurate) but I think these ring true for the most part. At some point in the game I forgot who was on the scumteam and thought ObviousOne was trolling because he was scum. About 30 minutes later I read a PM in my inbox and realized he was town (lol). I also laughed pretty hard at sandro calling him ObliviousDude (all in good fun) More or less the players I listed in the first 3 categories weren't really liabilities in this game given how weakly scum played. As marv alluded to at some point though, if the day 1 lynch went wrong or was a no-lynch or anything of that sort, things could have become hairy very quickly. Mafia Considerations Imagine a game where you have the day 1 you had here (rather inactive and not much discussion, but still a relatively polarized lynch) but a townie (a strong one, such as Zess) died instead. What would happen? Perhaps people would attack sandro+syllo+marv for not doing more to stop the Zess lynch. Town would have the advantage of having a polarized lynch, but it might not mean anything at all-perhaps people might come to the conclusion that two townies were on the chopping block. It would perhaps give time to yamato to shape up and live longer. The sandro shot was partially luck-based but also suffered from the same type of mentality that doomed mafia on d1. Had they shot syllo and roleblocked him, or simply roleblocked him, or simply shot him, the best town role and arguably player in the game would have been nullified. If they had put pressure on sandro+syllo day 1 and egged on the Zess+marv affair, they might even have influenced Artanis's decision regarding the gun and perhaps even the shot itself. He was originally sending the gun to marv--had he done so and had marv shot someone like Zess or Mattchew, the game could have turned out differently. Upon risk getting shot I think the game was still remotely winnable, and I would have lauded scum if they took the Zess+grush RB fail in stride and shot one of them. They could have spun it, and they could have secured a mislynch AND the vig shot. However I think their attitude was their downfall more than anything else. I realize, 2v12 is hard, but scum teams have won from worse situations. Perhaps it was too late at that point, but that begs the question of how the team managed to get there in the first place. I can't say much more than "what if?" at this point, given that the game turned out the way it did. One cannot simply say that because a faction has strong players, the other is doomed to a loss. As mafia you must at least try to take control of the town. Mafia's goals favor stalling and misdirection. By not doing anything, there is no misdirection, and town has all the time in the world to put together the pieces. They are not hard to piece together when the mafia team is intent on killing itself. Vote timings are crucial in this regard. Both Vivax and Toad chose incredibly poor timings to vote yamato. They accelerated his death instead of trying to prevent it. On day 1 that's an incredible loss and one that almost cannot be mitigated. If you are going to bus, you need to be able to accomplish something with it. Bussing for the sake of bussing or because of fear that you will be caught when your scumbuddy (eventually) flips is a recipe for disaster. Townies are not so dumb that by simply bussing you will fool them. It may take them longer, but they will eventually figure you out if the only thing in your favor was where your vote happened to be when the clock struck lynch time. It takes more effort than that to fool a good town. There were plenty of opportunities to establish yourselves as town and use the situation to put pressure on the weaker townies, or even the stronger ones who seemed ready to attack each other. Why not fuel those fires? Why not push them at a distance? You don't need to even vote for your targets. You simply need to get others to believe what you want them to believe, and have them think that they themselves came up with the ideas. That way, you escape the blame when the townies start dying. However, if no townie dies in the first place there is no responsibility to push. If a scum dies, the point is to take responsibility for that scum dying! otherwise, it was a loss. So why weren't you all actively trying to prevent yamato from dying day 1? Anyway, that's mostly all I have to say on the matter-any questions are welcome. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
No offense intended to Marv who I am sure is well meaning in his attempts to get more activity out of me. I was posting a ton in my other game and Marv probably saw one of the reasons why I was posting a lot in the other thread as it was going on (for reference, I was SK in the concurrent newbie game and explaining away life) in this, but I was once, in a game from the past, one of my newbie games, (verbally) warned for looking at / commenting on posting made outside of a thread by a player who was "lurking" and just wanted to know if it's commonly let go or if I dealt with it properly in here or if there isn't strictly any rule about it. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On February 20 2013 17:49 ObviousOne wrote: Early in the game, like around P14, Marv brought up that I was posting a lot in my other game. No offense intended to Marv who I am sure is well meaning in his attempts to get more activity out of me. I was posting a ton in my other game and Marv probably saw one of the reasons why I was posting a lot in the other thread as it was going on (for reference, I was SK in the concurrent newbie game and explaining away life) in this, but I was once, in a game from the past, one of my newbie games, (verbally) warned for looking at / commenting on posting made outside of a thread by a player who was "lurking" and just wanted to know if it's commonly let go or if I dealt with it properly in here or if there isn't strictly any rule about it. it's kind of a grey area. I personally don't mention those things (anymore) but they do influence how I play. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
I am ready to part with my fear. At the edge of my sight lays the Brown Horizon. I will not fail. I will not falter. I am ready. Brown forever, Forever Brown. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12973 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On February 20 2013 17:51 wherebugsgo wrote: it's kind of a grey area. I personally don't mention those things (anymore) but they do influence how I play. I don't mention them either but i'll find another excuse to vote players who are very active in other games / forums but lurking in game. A lot of players see this as a scumtell, as opposed to "I'm away from my computer" lurking which can happen to anyone. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On February 20 2013 18:06 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I had a town read on Marv all game long but Zess managed to make me worried and I didn´t want to mess up, so I decided to send it to syllo instead, since everyone seemed to regard him as pretty much confirmed town. My reads this game weren´t really great. I had a few strong green reads but found it difficult to really discern the townies that weren´t playing from scum. I didn´t find anyone with an agenda, which I guess makes sense as it seems scum didn´t play with one this game. right-and that was only one player's pressure. syllo and sandro didn't look particularly better than marv at that point in the game. The only difference is that no one had attacked them and at least 2-3 people had attacked marv (among them were Zess and Toad). If mafia shed doubt on syllo and sandro, using the fact that neither of them really stepped it up on day 1, things might have looked different. They wouldn't even need to try to lynch them, just repeatedly call them out and throw dirt on them. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12973 Posts
On February 20 2013 18:11 wherebugsgo wrote: right-and that was only one player's pressure. syllo and sandro didn't look particularly better than marv at that point in the game. The only difference is that no one had attacked them and at least 2-3 people had attacked marv (among them were Zess and Toad). If mafia shed doubt on syllo and sandro, using the fact that neither of them really stepped it up on day 1, things might have looked different. They wouldn't even need to try to lynch them, just repeatedly call them out and throw dirt on them. Well, I think that part specifically is because no one dares to attack syllo/sandro as they have a reputation of figuring out each other's alignment easily. Scum knew they had to paint both Syllo and Sandro as scum if they wanted to get them lynched, which would've been a very hard thing to do. | ||
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