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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 20 2013 11:01 debears wrote: Mayor-Chezinu does not necessarily mean serious Chezinu. "I will be serious if mayor" Chezinu does not necessarily mean serious mayor Chezinu. I wanna see a serious chezinu. If you want to vote him because you want him to have bodyguards and to have an extra vote, then by all means. But I don't think anyone should actually assume that Chezinu being mayor will mean anything about the way he plays. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
In front of you are three snowmen. The leftmost snowman has a carrot nose. The right most snowman has a stick for a nose. The middle snowman has a red foam clown nose for a nose. If you had a wish from a genie that allowed you turn any one of the snowmen into a dog (insert a different animal if you're not a dog person), which snowman would you choose to turn into a dog and why? | ||
austinmcc
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austinmcc
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On January 20 2013 13:04 Toadesstern wrote: Small thing, but I do like thisAgain, I'd much rather have someone I'm able to read properly early on as mayor to shut up those people and not even have that discussion, even if it happens to be a mislynch. | ||
austinmcc
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austinmcc
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On January 20 2013 14:20 Djodref wrote: How do I feel about the mayoral election is...vague. I feel like we should elect a mayor. I'd prefer to elect someone whose judgment and reads I trust, and especially someone who I think needs protecting. There's not really much to "feel" about the election. Nor is there a need to say that, because everyone should be looking for the same qualities in their mayoral vote.@ austin How do you feel about this mayoral election ? Why did you avoid the subject so far ? Would you run a campaign ? Who would you vote for if you had to choose right now and why ? I would...be mayor if I got voted mayor, but I don't see much need to campaign. If people trust me and want to keep me alive, great, and I'd take it. Overall, I kind of like the idea of electing someone NOT campaigning, or considering it. If someone doesn't campaign and has to get votes naturally, then town votes will gravitate towards the sort of person we really want for mayor. However, I'm not sure about that, because a campaign-focused election means scum has to campaign for mayor to win, be visible, whereas a non-campaign election means scum might have to vote for their scumbuddy to get a scum-mayor and provide reasoning for doing so, perhaps out themselves for later. I don't think that matters much, because (1) any scum running for mayor should be someone they feel can handle the position, and won't get outed just from being visible; and (2) don't think scum are going to go nuts connecting themselves on D1 just to get the mayor position. There's my ramble, enjoy. If I had to vote for someone RIGHT NOW, I'd vote toad or myself. Myself because I'm town and trust myself, so it's the only mayor I could be CERTAIN would be town. Toad because I've found some of his comments townie, and based on LV (I think it was LV) I know that he can be a useful townie when he has mason capabilities. OH HEY, IMPORTANT THING. Since masons choose someone each cycle and then can't mason that person again, one quality I'm SPECIFICALLY looking for in a mayor is someone I trust in mason circles. I have seen toad plot within a mason circle, which makes me think he'd be a good mayor as he can set plans in motion for LATER given only a single cycle with masons (unless I'm giving him too much credit). Mayor gets the lynch today, a vote, the bodyguards, but will also be a key person for the mason roles in this game, both town and mafia. Needs to be able to read the people who mason him, perhaps set plans/traps in motion to figure out which masons were town/mafia, as well as just generally use being the other half of most mason pairs well. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 21 2013 00:06 Mocsta wrote: austinmcc, your reason for voting yourself are the same reasons all 22 of us can regurgitate. So the point is moot. By elimination, your best judgement so far is Toad. Noted. @Austinmcc I would like your take on Vivax/JieXian i.e. Do you support the pressure/vote campaign Vivax instigated against JieXian?; Regardless of whether you support the vote campaign, can the action that Vivax took be attributed to town motive? & Please share your current top scum read, so that I can get a feel for your judgement in general. Of course my reasons are the same as anyone's. Outside of weird corner cases, the only people with different reasons are scum, and they're not gonna go about pointing themselves out. But it's also part of a full answer to the question, anyone asked who they'd vote for, if they're actually looking at everyone, should be including themselves. As to JieXian himself, I'm ... not scummy atm. Por queeeeeeeeeeeeeee? Because he's got ONE post really (his chezinu comment doesn't count) - On January 20 2013 17:23 JieXian wrote: Look at that post.Axle you're not being coherent at all >_> + Show Spoiler + On January 20 2013 15:03 AxleGreaser wrote: These look like actual questions. Answering backwards order cos its easier. Why Vote chez + Show Spoiler + Chezinu is someone I surprisingly can usually think I understand. His I am always honest claim is one I would bank on. I just have to try real hard to see what I think he says. I think he counts on scum not bothering that hard. His I just wanna survive and have fun is another thing I believe as a truth about him. His two quoted posts are plausible and self consistent. If being mayor lets him open up and Go... That I want to see. Exactly what that means how direct would he be, how good is he, these i don't know. My votes are way to get a better glimpse of what he is then prepared to show. The chezinu vote is real, in the sense that: it is real, iff he then ponies up the right amount of collateral to support his claimed potential changes in play style. Sounds like good trade. the other Vets will just live longer if Mayor, Chezinu will potentially live longer and play better? As a feel read approach to why the vote... I am reminded of really old game called Master Of magic The guide to it says they would like to see the AI summon Toren Once, just once. Toren in that game is a virtual force of nature, one game strategy is to summon toren but it requires such huge resource commitment that normally you just could have won the other way. I wish to Summon a Chezinu once. regarding my pregame posts. There is in most players mind a large wall between pregame and now. there is not in my mind. I laid down a page of filter for reals, the scumminess of the reads was tongue in cheek as we had no PMs, although the set me up ones where Djo tried (in jest?) to get me wedded to a as self accepted scum read heuristic that was malleable at his whim was a bit bloody. I cant blame a guy for trying on the just in case..? its like just say no to drugs, the rush would pander to my self esteem, then thered be the reality, it just doesnt make any sense + Show Spoiler [me and the mayor] + me and being mayor. I think I was fairly clear. I should not be mayor. Thats not personal desire it was an analysis. I believe I gave the reasoning. The reasoning is as true now as it was then. basically i am not imba enough to carry the responsibility and more importantly the accountability for being mayor. Accountability was the secret word Vivax missed. Scum I hope cant be sure how townie town thinks I am. Which is why I was so very very clear you give town read on me I lynch you(try anyways), unless i am a day vig.... in which case i just end you. Scum don't need or deserve more free information. I expect to be perceived as weak, being a 2 game noob who arsed up his first one, I even expect this very sentence I am saying is just seen as bravado. I have not counted much, but IIRC my scum reads have not been good, although in solo obs I felt like i was successful, but hey thats just me saying.... Lots of people think they have good reads when they look back at them. In one syllable was ords (just in case i wasnt clear yet,...) Me not big man. me no good for that. me do bad reads me then get dead for no good read. Not good, bad. me sad if you make me big man cos then me die by your hand then at Lynch. Lynch mayor is big bad waste of stuff. waste that is bad for town. And that is it. Mayor is an advantage to own in that its expensive for scum to take the mayor down. Electing me throws that away as I reckon i will then get lynched by town for being bad. Hell scum may not panic at keeping me until LyLo. i am sure they would be down for playing chicken with town over who kills th unproductive mayor that town elected. Town is bound to lynch me before scum bother killing me. it is a no win game. Id repeat that again for emphasis but... I suppose you had to know if my pregame patter was for realsies, yep I am wedded to it. Hell i am wedded to it every game until my D1 reads rock the house. Toad his tag says that he's Australian and he's using a lot of slang. I think it's just the way he writes. From a Newbie game + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2012 10:14 AxleGreaser wrote: Yam has already made a case on Arnarnion here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17201753 it is based on feels of the game I dont have. So I cant comment or just sheep that unless I find my own evidence. If you have the experience to know thats a valid argument then give it whatever weight it is due. I deal in rougher measures. part of the The itchyness that made me move my vote of Rad without counting properly what that meant, was partly mistakenly becoming more convinced Yamato was scum and partly feeling something was wrong. Oats had been a noiser player thus I would have expected it most likely for the other scum to hide in the other big puddle. The quiet people. Although both Arnarnion and Silencia are quiet, jidolboy is too but he has claimed. As you are all good, players if one of you was actually a named townie, or a blue role you would have counter claimed we throw you both under buses, yay team. As I am a careful player, I too have checked what I am several times, and I have no evidence I am not just what I appear to be, a town player. I may once have said playa before I realised just how hard language is read around here. Stuff happens,rocks fall. So lets assume for now jidolboy Cant be Scum or someone Would have counter claimed.?? An association case. Arnarnion and Oats. In my minimal knowledge a pair of Scum players have strong tendency to be in different pools of suspsects. One will be noisier, active and take risks hoping to get enough time to let the thrid one make it thorugh to a 3 man LyLo They will also want to pick off the two blue roles. Thus with Oats as one scum I would expect the other to be one of, Sylencia, Arnarnion, jidolboy(Confiremd Town) The question is which? I like what gonzaw's doing, actually making reads, most of which I agree with, while running for mayor. I do find Vivax disappearing after that long post running for mayor to be scummy. How do I vote for mayor and vote to lynch? How are do I differentiate the votes? ##Vote: gonzaw for mayor And lol Toad you shouting that you were yak gives people a reason to think you're the jester wanting to be lynched. It's perfectly reasonable, I don't know why you can't accept it. Things that I like in that post, although small:
Sandro's pointed out reasons he found that post scummy, but I actually find the "irrelevant comments" that Sandro DISLIKES to be things that I get a mild town read off of. Vivax...is just a mishmash of things atm. He's asserting himself, which I'm not entirely used to from vivax of either alignment. The start to his JieXian hunt is something i DO NOT like though: [B]On January 20 2013 19:44 Vivax wrote: "Four people have expressed concerns about my activity" --> Some other dude called out 1 of those 4 --> "I like that read" without giving any reason WHY he likes it, or adding any of his own thoughts --> I'd like to lynch that dudeImportant matters Three people so far have expressed concerns about my activity: gonzaw, Axle and JieXian. (And just now, Oatsmaster, but he actually used his brain). Sandro already called out one of them = JieXian. That said, if sandro ran for mayor, I would elect him too. I like that read. Who would be happy with a JieXian lynch? I would be! That's NOT the reasoning I want from a mayor. Sandro made a read based on a single post. Which is fine. But Vivax, with no further comment, is okay lynching JieXian off that read and PUSHING for a JieXian lynch off that read. Mild distaste for that interaction. Some of his other responses are townie, but overall I find his reasons for initially trying to drum up interest in JX (he's now JX) to be meh, and his later explanation: [B]On January 20 2013 22:28 Vivax wrote: to be meh. What is JX trying to achieve (there are a bunch of people with crappy single posts, not just JX), and ... JX didn't scumhunt in his first post? JX actively did more with his post (pulling up axle post from newbie game, asking question) than a couple other players have. That's...something. Vivax just doesn't feel like he's fully considering that post, which I dislike. That said, I don't think vivax is superscummy or should be lynched, I often find him scummy when he's town.1. I am looking for scum elsewhere. It's not like JieXian could be the only one. I honestly don't think this is a good question. What else would you expect me to answer? 2. Well, define lurker. For me lurkers are the guys that don't share anything/troll and vote to not get modkilled. But you should know that JieXian isn't in the crossfire just for lurking. 3. Cause the whole post if useless for finding scum. Look at that post and tell me: What would JieXian want to achieve with that? I see 4 things: → getting gonzaw elected → defending Axle → drive-by-shitthrowing at me without even caring about commenting on anything I wrote. → Joking with Toad about something from earlier games. He simply looks like he doesn't give a fuck about scumhunting. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
stutters - a few very short posts. Nothing much of substance. Asks some questions to Toad here but never follows any of that up. Easy questions to participate, without really going anywhere with the answers. Mildly scummy for now. debears - slightly worrisome in the same way. Drops that he won't vote vivax, supports chezinu, gives a short answer when asked "why chezinu" and then dips. Along with stutters, he reads like he showed up because he thought he should make posts, made some posts, poof. I also remember debears being generally interested in the game, and would expect ... more involvement when he was here, or at the very least more answerage. Given that this game started Friday night, that we have a couple players we haven't seen ANYTHING from, and a decent number of players we've seen very little from, those are my top reads. Right now I'm not dealing with everything else. | ||
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On January 21 2013 04:39 DearestSnot wrote: Any reason to believe he's the Magical Disappearing Scumprplhz?Hi. Is there anyone currently running on the platform of lynching prplhz? As far as I could tell, the answer to that is no. Since it seems no one is interested in that, let me propose that we vote someone into mayor who will lynch prplhz today. I'm willing to be that person if need be. | ||
austinmcc
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On January 20 2013 11:14 austinmcc wrote: Axle, you are standing in the middle of a snow-covered field. In front of you are three snowmen. The leftmost snowman has a carrot nose. The right most snowman has a stick for a nose. The middle snowman has a red foam clown nose for a nose. If you had a wish from a genie that allowed you turn any one of the snowmen into a dog (insert a different animal if you're not a dog person), which snowman would you choose to turn into a dog and why? | ||
austinmcc
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On January 21 2013 07:47 FiveTouch wrote: Just to make sure I've got this bit entirely correct, do you also find JX scummy, or just Oats here?That's because I find what Oats said to be the scummiest thing in the thread at the time, and I still feel that way. Given this is a mayoral election day, there is no risk whatsoever of a fast bandwagon on to JieXian, so his defence of him was completely unwarranted. Why did Oats not want any pressure on JieXian? Oats wasn't even defending his play, rather the fact there was pressure on him. It's scummy. | ||
austinmcc
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On January 21 2013 09:20 Vivax wrote: The times that I've seen Chezinu give reads, they've been QUITE good. He also, in my mind, has some other qualities that I want in a mayor - someone that scum is going to have a hard time misleading and someone who can deal with being masoned well. Why would you want to vote for Chezinu? That is something people that don't care about town would do. I wouldn't put my faith into a guy who speaks in riddles. | ||
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austinmcc
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On January 21 2013 09:32 FiveTouch wrote: I don't like writing someone off as unreadable. It's so lazy to just say "Chez hard to read and silly" and completely ignore the "Chez often has very, very good reads" aspect.This post makes no sense. The fact that it's extremely hard to get a confident town-read on Chezinu so early is precisely why it's ok to write him off as a candidate. He's got enough upside if he's town and in the mayor position that it's worth considering him and trying to read him. | ||
austinmcc
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On January 21 2013 09:40 Vivax wrote: Why on earth are those the two options? I'm in favor of NEITHER of those guys for mayor.Good to know. So, are you in favour of a Chez or a DearestSnot mayor now? Chez hasn't been around too much, I don't have a solid town read on him, therefore I don't want to vote him. Bugs isn't doing anything for me atm. The guys he wants to kill aren't the guys I'm most interested in killing, but I don't have much in the way of thoughts on him beyond that. Toad is still my non-me candidate of choice, with me being my me candidate of choice, I think. | ||
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On January 21 2013 09:50 FiveTouch wrote: Nope, unless I should make something up.Chezinu rarely, if ever, starts coming up with his good reads during the first cycle. And we are electing a mayor in the first cycle. So yes, I am writing him off. Unless you have some hitherto unheard of method of reading Chezinu on day 1 that you would like to share with us? On January 21 2013 09:52 Vivax wrote: It wasn't directed at you, but I appreciate that you answered austin. I find it concerning that you first defend a Chezinu election and then say you wouldn't vote for him. I thought you would be pushing your favourite candidate besides yourself. Read closer. I give my reasoning why I think he should be a candidate, and on what conditions I think he's someone to vote for. Those conditions haven't been met, therefore he's not someone I want to vote for atm. And yes, as FT notes, they may be conditions that simply can't be met, maybe you can't get a read on Chez D1, but oh well, still gonna try. | ||
austinmcc
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On January 21 2013 09:52 AxleGreaser wrote: [Stuff that has nothing to do with dogs and snowmen] | ||
austinmcc
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On January 15 2013 06:56 BloodyC0bbler wrote: except that I removed the /s from the back half because if you leave them then the kittens disappear. THERE IS A HIDDEN KITTENS THERE. HOW HAS NOBODY NOTICED THIS YET!?[center][blue][b][anchor]kittens[anchor]Roles[b][blue][center] | ||
austinmcc
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On January 21 2013 10:40 DearestSnot wrote: You're not killing the folks I'm most interested in killing.Anyone who has already said they are not interested in voting me or FiveTouch : can I get an explanation why? So far most people have simply given pretty meh opinions. Austin's in particular are quite strange. He says we shouldn't dismiss Chezinu as a candidate, yet he says Chezinu should not be voted. I'm not actually seeing the reasoning for the dissonance there. Reads + being hard to mess with + probably decent at dealing with being masoned by a couple folks and trying to read them/not give mafia masons info = good mayoral candidate. Therefore, Chez is a good mayoral candidate. IF he comes off strongly town, he should be getting votes. IF he doesn't, then he shouldn't. But I dislike that people are considering him to not even be a possible mayor, because who knows what happens in the next day. My arguments on that point have mainly been that Chez should be a candidate, not that he should be mayor given the first 24 hours of this game. You may disagree that chez could be readable, that he could be a strong town read, but I don't see how it's dissonant that he is a legitimate candidate, and should get votes if he comes off as strongly town + he hasn't come off as strongly town so doesn't have my vote atm. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 21 2013 11:00 DearestSnot wrote: Chopped down the quotes, timestamps may be off.I suppose these are reasonable, but I don't want to spread ourselves too thinly. You find a debears lynch "reasonable." How do you feel about a stutters lynch? | ||
austinmcc
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You found JX scummy for his early post:+ Show Spoiler + On January 20 2013 17:23 JieXian wrote: Axle you're not being coherent at all >_> + Show Spoiler + On January 20 2013 15:03 AxleGreaser wrote: These look like actual questions. Answering backwards order cos its easier. Why Vote chez + Show Spoiler + Chezinu is someone I surprisingly can usually think I understand. His I am always honest claim is one I would bank on. I just have to try real hard to see what I think he says. I think he counts on scum not bothering that hard. His I just wanna survive and have fun is another thing I believe as a truth about him. His two quoted posts are plausible and self consistent. If being mayor lets him open up and Go... That I want to see. Exactly what that means how direct would he be, how good is he, these i don't know. My votes are way to get a better glimpse of what he is then prepared to show. The chezinu vote is real, in the sense that: it is real, iff he then ponies up the right amount of collateral to support his claimed potential changes in play style. Sounds like good trade. the other Vets will just live longer if Mayor, Chezinu will potentially live longer and play better? As a feel read approach to why the vote... I am reminded of really old game called Master Of magic The guide to it says they would like to see the AI summon Toren Once, just once. Toren in that game is a virtual force of nature, one game strategy is to summon toren but it requires such huge resource commitment that normally you just could have won the other way. I wish to Summon a Chezinu once. regarding my pregame posts. There is in most players mind a large wall between pregame and now. there is not in my mind. I laid down a page of filter for reals, the scumminess of the reads was tongue in cheek as we had no PMs, although the set me up ones where Djo tried (in jest?) to get me wedded to a as self accepted scum read heuristic that was malleable at his whim was a bit bloody. I cant blame a guy for trying on the just in case..? its like just say no to drugs, the rush would pander to my self esteem, then thered be the reality, it just doesnt make any sense + Show Spoiler [me and the mayor] + me and being mayor. I think I was fairly clear. I should not be mayor. Thats not personal desire it was an analysis. I believe I gave the reasoning. The reasoning is as true now as it was then. basically i am not imba enough to carry the responsibility and more importantly the accountability for being mayor. Accountability was the secret word Vivax missed. Scum I hope cant be sure how townie town thinks I am. Which is why I was so very very clear you give town read on me I lynch you(try anyways), unless i am a day vig.... in which case i just end you. Scum don't need or deserve more free information. I expect to be perceived as weak, being a 2 game noob who arsed up his first one, I even expect this very sentence I am saying is just seen as bravado. I have not counted much, but IIRC my scum reads have not been good, although in solo obs I felt like i was successful, but hey thats just me saying.... Lots of people think they have good reads when they look back at them. In one syllable was ords (just in case i wasnt clear yet,...) Me not big man. me no good for that. me do bad reads me then get dead for no good read. Not good, bad. me sad if you make me big man cos then me die by your hand then at Lynch. Lynch mayor is big bad waste of stuff. waste that is bad for town. And that is it. Mayor is an advantage to own in that its expensive for scum to take the mayor down. Electing me throws that away as I reckon i will then get lynched by town for being bad. Hell scum may not panic at keeping me until LyLo. i am sure they would be down for playing chicken with town over who kills th unproductive mayor that town elected. Town is bound to lynch me before scum bother killing me. it is a no win game. Id repeat that again for emphasis but... I suppose you had to know if my pregame patter was for realsies, yep I am wedded to it. Hell i am wedded to it every game until my D1 reads rock the house. Toad his tag says that he's Australian and he's using a lot of slang. I think it's just the way he writes. From a Newbie game + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2012 10:14 AxleGreaser wrote: Yam has already made a case on Arnarnion here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17201753 it is based on feels of the game I dont have. So I cant comment or just sheep that unless I find my own evidence. If you have the experience to know thats a valid argument then give it whatever weight it is due. I deal in rougher measures. part of the The itchyness that made me move my vote of Rad without counting properly what that meant, was partly mistakenly becoming more convinced Yamato was scum and partly feeling something was wrong. Oats had been a noiser player thus I would have expected it most likely for the other scum to hide in the other big puddle. The quiet people. Although both Arnarnion and Silencia are quiet, jidolboy is too but he has claimed. As you are all good, players if one of you was actually a named townie, or a blue role you would have counter claimed we throw you both under buses, yay team. As I am a careful player, I too have checked what I am several times, and I have no evidence I am not just what I appear to be, a town player. I may once have said playa before I realised just how hard language is read around here. Stuff happens,rocks fall. So lets assume for now jidolboy Cant be Scum or someone Would have counter claimed.?? An association case. Arnarnion and Oats. In my minimal knowledge a pair of Scum players have strong tendency to be in different pools of suspsects. One will be noisier, active and take risks hoping to get enough time to let the thrid one make it thorugh to a 3 man LyLo They will also want to pick off the two blue roles. Thus with Oats as one scum I would expect the other to be one of, Sylencia, Arnarnion, jidolboy(Confiremd Town) The question is which? I like what gonzaw's doing, actually making reads, most of which I agree with, while running for mayor. I do find Vivax disappearing after that long post running for mayor to be scummy. How do I vote for mayor and vote to lynch? How are do I differentiate the votes? ##Vote: gonzaw for mayor And lol Toad you shouting that you were yak gives people a reason to think you're the jester wanting to be lynched. It's perfectly reasonable, I don't know why you can't accept it. [B]On January 20 2013 18:41 sandroba wrote: I think this dude is scum. Longish post of irrelevant comments, a random gonzaw vote in the middle. I can't imagine the very first post you make in a game as town would be voting someone this early and with no questions asked at all. I actually found that post kind of townie: [B]On January 21 2013 00:23 austinmcc wrote: As to JieXian himself, I'm ... not scummy atm. Por queeeeeeeeeeeeeee? Because he's got ONE post really (his chezinu comment doesn't count) *snipped** Look at that post. Things that I like in that post, although small:
Sandro's pointed out reasons he found that post scummy, but I actually find the "irrelevant comments" that Sandro DISLIKES to be things that I get a mild town read off of. You disagree with that in the entirety? Or just still find that post scummy overall? | ||
austinmcc
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On January 21 2013 11:14 sandroba wrote: Okay, fair enough. And yes, that's true for the third point. But he felt the need to go to some other game and grab a quote from there instead of any of the 25 odd pregame posts. I just don't share your read on that post. The second point was just that I overvalue paranoia as a townie, and so when he suggested toad was a jester in a game where we have all the roles in the OP, I just read that as mildly townie paranoia about roles/setupYes i dissagree. 1st point is often advised to new mafia players to do. 2nd point you are actually crazy and don't know what you are saying. He is talking about toad in another game, so it's completely irrelevant to this one. 3rd point if anyone was reading the pregame banter, that's actually a completely useless and obvious thing to point out. | ||
austinmcc
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On January 21 2013 11:22 sandroba wrote: Man, he is not suggesting toad is jester in this game at all, he is talking about the previous 6 man game they played together. #readingcomprehension I don't has it. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
But he ALWAYS seems to get mislynched and always seems to look scummy to half the players. There's a stupid paranoid niggle that says "Vivax isn't looking scummy, therefore he's not town," which I'm ignoring because that's just too much. Would still prefer someone else be in that spot, someone I think mafia is really going to want to have to kill. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
(1) annul, not everyone is ignoring your accusations. A couple folks have expressly disagreed with you. Yes, Toad has been throwing out some pure wifom, but that's ... whatever. It happens in any game. Vivax's vote for sandroba doesn't bother me, I'd rather he run for mayor but actually consider other players legitimate candidates then try and shove his campaign down everyone's throats. That's a POSITIVE thing in my mind, "I want to be mayor but I also want the best candidate to be mayor." Yes, that's only one of your initial issues you had with Vivax, but that did not strike me as a scummy contradiction in his actions. (2) You remember when I said Chez was a legitimate candidate and should at least be considered, then got flak for that? Well, I'm still not voting him. But, reading his posts, I got the feeling that he was one of the few people who has posted that they are running who has done anything beyond "I want to be mayor, if you elect me I will lynch this dude (or that dude)." On January 21 2013 11:00 Chezinu wrote: That. Even if it's bs, even if it's almost nothing. We've seen some general "Ah wil be transparint an gud fer yu." And everyone mayoral candidate has a lynch target. But chez, at least if you trust his statements, is actively thinking about how to be mayor beyond today. Moreso than any other candidate. As mayor, I will be more than just a mayor. I will form a great circle like no one has ever seen. This circle will be protected. This circle will survive! For Chezinu loves his circles. If mafia dares to destroy it, they will be destroyed themselves! Is it enough to vote him? No. But...it looks good. And I wish someone else would have pointed this out, because I think it's actually something worth pulling out of his candidacy versus others. (3) STUTTERS. debears has posted some, but I'm not picking up anything strong one way or another. BUT STUTTERS GUYS HOLY CRAP. He returned with a single post - On January 21 2013 03:20 Stutters695 wrote: This post doesn't make me feel any better.Short posts yes, but it was like two hours into the game. I dropped the questions on toad because he answered and the discussion in the thread cleared it up pretty well for me. I'm catching up on the thread now. When I rolled mafia my first time, I had a hard time not taking this out when accused of being mafia. "Well yes, I've been doing x thing that's scummy, but..." where the "but..." is something WEAK. Stutters does that here, picks out a single thing I didn't like, admits to it, and then "but it was early." It doesn't matter if it's early, plenty of folks wrote long early posts (candidacies, general strategies, etc.). Moreover, JUST LOOK AT THE FRIGGIN' POST AND HIS FILTER. There's been way more discussion, way more to look at, comment on, anything. Stutters hasn't done ANY of that. He pops in, says he's catching up, does NOTHING beyond that. This reads to me like someone who came under some fire, dropped by to address, but has been told to keep his head low. To anyone DEFENDING stutters, or who thinks stutters may be town: On January 21 2013 11:09 DearestSnot wrote: I find the suspicion reasonable but I don't think I would lynch either of those players today. Nor would I lynch stutters, particularly because stutters is a player I would firmly put in the "scummy as town" column. I BELIEVE someone else made a comment that they didn't want to lynch stutters, but I have lost that. If you made that comment, let me know plox. This was the only one I remembered. Let's not lynch stutters because stutters is scummy as town. I know I've said that about players this game. But I don't like it as reasoning not to lynch stutters. He did something scummy, and then the followup has also been scummy. He just dipped in, said he was catching up, dipped out. Gave this really weak response to some weak early pressure on him. To me, it reads EXACTLY like he has been told to lay low. Someone brought up the difference between a mayoral D1 and a normal lynch, where players can hide or play poorly because you won't be under constant scrutiny, the discussion is about the mayor and his lynch instead of who is scummy (to some extent, or at least to the extent that it allows more trolling to go unpunished D1). Stutters is harnessing that. Stutters is staying under the radar, his head way down, and everyone is passing him over for other targets that are ... higher profile or more active. Do not forget stutters. Don't pass him over. Read his filter. Read his response, and ask yourself whether a "yes, but" and "now I'm catching up" into silence feels scummy or towny as a response. Stutters should be the mayoral lynch today. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2013 00:44 FiveTouch wrote: So, I generally agree with this. I'll back off pushing that point. I've seen frustrated scumteams when one member who's semi-inactive gets suspicion on him early, but you're right, the general mood in QT then is to try and get the guy to be more active. austin, scumteams don't tell someone to stop posting when they're potentially in trouble. Especially they don't tell them that once the guy said he's catching up on the thread, that he shouldn't post again. Unsure if the amount of pressure that stutters has gotten this game really amounts to much though, so I'd like to try and get some focus back on him. Really one of the only defensive comments that I can remember is Bugs saying he's often scummy as town. I'm not satisfied with that, and I still don't like stutters play, even if you take out the thought that others might be telling him to keep his head down. Do you think that without that point stutters looks fine? Just looks like an inactive dude? As to your lynch candidates, I don't like the contradiction part of the case on prplhz. Yes, he said he didn't like policy lynches and now ran on lynching chezinu. But I don't think all contradictions are scummy, and I don't think contradictory quotes from months ago in a different game + quotes from this game are particularly strong. Both the policy lynch quotes AND the early bullshit at the start of a game quotes span different games and a couple months. There's more merit to the second than the first, people say all sorts of bullshit about policy lynches, but actively saying you're against dumb/flashy entrances to get the game moving and then saying you often do that...is more troubling. In some ways, you reconcile the second contradiction with your own filter-diving of prplhz, though. You grabbed a lot of flashy entrances, or peculiar entrances to threads, and they were from scum games. It's pretty clear that his play does not match up with his statement that he doesn't like starting games off in a certain way to get discussion going, or at least you seem to be saying that with your above post. You think only scum prplhz starts off that way and town prplhz actually practices what he previously preached? Or do you think prplhz's comment about not liking bullshit at the start of the game is bullshit itself? | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Some assorted reasons you should vote me: (1) I found that kittens stuff in the OP. (2) I often write walls of text, but they are legible. (3) I tend to be pretty clear with my thought processes. You may find them absurd (red check on Sandroba in paranoia comes to mind), but I almost always explain my reads and my actions in ways that you can follow. (4) I am thinking about the game longer term than today's lynch. I've noted that the the masons in this game are going to be of particular importance to the mayoral position, as he's likely to get masoned by most/all of them, and needs to know who is scum/town and what information to give out/trust coming in. I think I have toned down my paranoia, but have a healthy sense of mistrust and am relatively difficult to sway. I don't currently plan on setting up some town circle immediately, but I at least notice that Chezinu was talking about that, again...I'm thinking about the mayor position as more than just a lynch today. (5) I will sometimes post paint pictures. But not scum-BH-getting-lynched amounts. (6) I am generally pretty involved in the games I play. I will not be an absentee. (7) You know who I am. I don't think smurfing should disqualify someone from running, nor should being a crazy-play-loving enigma. But you can go through my games, see my posting style, see how I'm usually trying to figure things out, and some of you have a decent handle on how I play from being with me in those games. There's slightly more accountability there, if you're into that. NOW. Check this out. Here are reasons you should NOT vote me. (1) Next Saturday I will be almost entirely unavailable. I don't want an inactive mayor, and I don't want someone who will miss a full cycle. Saturday will be the first half of D3, so ... it's not a full cycle, but that's an important consideration. I have not seen any other candidate discuss their availability, and I don't like the idea that we could elect someone and have them go MIA for a bit. (2) In sort of the same vein, I'm a little behind at work. I will absolutely put in the time if I'm mayor, but I'm not entirely sure how much I can actually play during like 8 AM - 7 PM or so EST. I can read up, and I can post some, but I can't promise to be able to give the game the full treatment during those hours. (3) In the past I have been both overly paranoid AND stupid when I try to scheme. Those are not qualities that you want in a mayor. However, and this part is positive, I have specifically tried to temper those qualities, and in the games that I've played more recently I think I've done okay with that. I felt like I was a good threat-quality monitor and positive influence on...GSL mini 3? Tried specifically to improve my play and the thread itself, rather than just make reads, and I think that was good for the game. Tried to use my abilities to help town in the recent world-swapping mafia, and felt like I did okay with that (noticed things were dead D1, used my ability to try and make things un-dead, but didn't follow through enough after doing so). Ymmv on how much I can actually consciously temper my paranoia and sometimes-stupidity though. I think that's an honest assessment of how my play makes me both a good and bad mayor. I'm still currently looking at stutters as my lynch candidate. Right now on the to-do list is: (1) Look at stutters past games, does he feel scummy as town? If so, does he seem scummy in those games in the same way he seems scummy in this game? (Can feel scummy for different reasons, "scummy as town" is no good, but "looks scummy for x as town and looks scummy for x here" is better). (2) Look more at prplhz, since there's a sizeable group on him. I don't like some of the case on him, but it's got some valid points and shouldn't be ignored. (3) Try and find some little things. Chez thinking about the future, toad early on thinking about solving the game, little bits and pieces that are interesting or can help us get better reads on specific players. (4) Look at Gonzaw hard. If he's town, I think he'd be a solid mayor. He can get caught up in his own scheming just like I can, but he's shown an ability to be able to direct a game/faction if put into a position of power, and that's, again, a valuable quality to have in a mayor. I do not want scumGonzaw in that position though, at all. So he's a lot like Chez for me, in that I really don't want to risk mayor Gonzaw unless we're pretty certain of his alignment. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2013 01:23 Vivax wrote: Sandro pointed out that that was a mistake, not FT. Because I actively wanted to follow up with Sandro and see why we'd had a difference of opinion in reading that first JX post.I don't care if the elected roles are smurf, they have to be vets, and they have to be trustworthy. Gonzaw isn't trustworthy for shoveling shit at me for being absent after my candidacy like JX did + trying to be overly politically correct to everyone. austin isn't trustworthy for using artificial reasons to defend JX and picking stutters as lynch candidate. Austin used the argument: "Slight paranoia is townie" cause he wrote something about a Toad jester. Austin clearly didn't give a shit about JXs alignment from the start. That's my interpretation. FT already pointed out that this was a mistake. Seriously, stay the fuck away from gonzaw and austin. I'd rather have Chezinu mayor than these two. Do you actually think the paranoia bullet point was an "artificial reason"? Or do you think that was an honest mistake? | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Some short reasons:
I view Gonzaw as townie because of the above. I know that a lot of those points are all the same thing, in that Gonzaw is never just stopping at a response or an explanation, but continuing to make reads or push his reads. Even so, I like that, and the fact that he's constantly doing that makes it feel more genuine and townie to me. | ||
austinmcc
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On January 22 2013 01:32 Vivax wrote: I don't know sandro particularly well, beyond reputation. We played in Bureaucracy, where I thought he was lying. We played in Paranoia, where he replaced in and I knew he was scum. He died in Chrono Trigger before I joined, but was scum. We were both town in world-swapping mafia, and I did find his reads good there and paid attention to his posts, but he died N1. We played in looney lynching, but iirc he was gone for most of D1 and almost got himself killed. I do not remember his reads being particularly great that game, iirc he was on prplhz's case and prplhz flipped town. So, not tons of experience with him as a player.I think it was sloppiness that I wouldn't expect to have happened if you were town. I think you were creating paper reasons to defend JX. As vet you should know best about sandros accuracy, and you making such a mistake while analysing sandros scumread shows that you were sloppy where you shouldn't be. It was a big mistake. We don't have a jester, and you didn't follow JXs line of thought. Following the line of thought is essential in finding scum, so I assume you didn't have that intention when commenting on his post, intention you should have when sandro points it out and you are town. As to the rest, that's fine. Yes, I misread that part of JX's post. I still don't find that post scummy, however. That wasn't the only thing I picked up from JX's post that I read as mildly townie, and overall I'm just not convinced on the scumminess of that post. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2013 01:35 FiveTouch wrote: I guess I'm just used to seeing prplhz get lynched early on, and most of the games I've been involved in they've been mislynches. Rock Band, looney lynching, are the ones that come to mind for town prplhz getting pressured off the bat but flipping town. I know that I've read or obsed a few games in which the same thing happened with him as mafia though, can't remember names but he claimed cop D1 in some mini and lived for a while/til endgame.austin, I agree Stutters doesn't look good, and agree with what you said, apart from what I highlighted already. My issue with a Stutters lynch is that it's very similar to prplhz (bad entrance, bad followup), except prplhz has done more and worse than Stutters, so he's a better lynch. In the town games I looked at from prplhz, I did not find one instance of him entering in a 'trolly' way, as opposed to the multitude of scumgames provided. This is why I have asked prplhz to provide me with an example - I don't think it exists. I'm looking at him and stutters more, but maybe I'm just overly wary of early prplhz lynches because I keep seeing wagons get built on him that can't be derailed, whether by scum or town. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Newbie XXVI Stutters is a vigi. Active D1, not so much after that, gets a small amount of pressure. Says this being active was the anomaly? (That's what I got from a quick, quick filter dive). Noted that he had read past games, asked to have someone's filter added to the OP, had a plan for when and how he claimed as vigi. Shows me that he's read games, was actively reading/trying to read through this game (asking for filters to be added), and had a general game plan. Newbie XXVII Modkilled D2 for not voting. However, again shows signs of activity and ... playing the dang game - Filter. He gets on kush early, sees something and finds it scummy + asks questions. Then stays on kush. Follows up, asks more questions, even when he says he has become unsure on kush, he's still actively poking kush and trying to get a read. He also has Real Thoughts. There are others, but I've pulled that one out as a decent example. He's reading thread, gives his own opinion with reasoning to back it up, participates even in a game where he got modkilled later for not voting. Newbie XXVIII Town again. Modkilled again for not voting . Based off the vote counts, he picked up 0 votes on D2 and 0 votes on D3, which leads me to believe that people DID NOT interpret him as scummy while being town. More short posts, a lot of "i have to go because of x" and "i'm back from x." Not nearly as much participation, not as much meat, but a little. Whose Line Replaced in. Basic thoughts. Seems to be getting pressured some. Responses have actual reasons. responds to some cases and pushes them forward. Did have suspicion on him. Did get mislynched. I wasn't in the game and didn't read along. Replaced into the game though, so I'm not giving this a ton of credence. YANMM Again town. Survived til endgame. I see him having 1-2 votes for a couple days, but those votes were ONLY from bugs and vivax, and vivax was scum that game. Okay, I'm done with this nonsense. The #1 trend I see in Stutters town play is that he won't vote and he'll get modkilled. I DO NOT see the suspicion that Bugs mentioned, except in the two most recent games, and I don't see the votes corresponding with that suspicion in YANMM. It was just bugs and vivax. I DID NOT PLAY YANNM OR WHOSE LINE. I HAVE NOT FULLY READ THEM. NOR HAVE I READ ANY OTHER FULL STUTTERS GAME. However, in looking at his filters, I see much more play than here. When he's gone, he says so, comes back, posts actual thoughts. He has suspicions, he makes cases, he is playing the game. Here, he has not played the game. His posts look like empty questions and nothing, which goes directly against his play in other games. I do not buy "he looks scummy as town" based on a replacement game and a game where only scum and bugs voted for him. Bugs, you're more than welcome to refute this and give me some other people who thought stutters was scummy, but upon scanning his past games I'm MORE convinced he's scum this game. Everyone else, there are the games he's played. You're welcome to check them for yourselves. I find stutters scummy this game, and more scummy after reading his other games. | ||
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On January 22 2013 01:45 Vivax wrote: I am used to stutters playing like that day1. I remember pushing him myself for behaving like that when I was scum in YANMM. Why pick him out of other lurkers, austin? See the very first post I made on him. He asked some dinky nothingquestions, and didn't follow them up. I'm not "picking him out of other lurkers," I actively read his posts and didn't like them, he comes off scummy. Upon reading up on him, he comes off scummy. "Picking someone out of other lurkers" is a silly phrase. If you think I'm scummy, say so, but "picking someone out of other lurkers" is a scummy thing to do. It implies that I looked through the lurkers, found one to pin a mislynch on, and rolled with it. When in actuality, his post is just bad and his play since then hasn't changed my mind. | ||
austinmcc
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On January 22 2013 02:11 FiveTouch wrote: The fact you're not taking issue with Oatsmaster, austin, is worrisome. I AM BUT ONE MAN. Looking at prplhz a little now, oatsmaster comes after. But I wanted to look at stutters and gonzaw. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2013 02:11 yamato77 wrote: Austin, Stutters definitely plays like this day 1 as town, I played with him in YANMM and it looks identical. Did you play with him in the other three games linked above? If so, does his play this game look identical to those? If not, does his play this game look identical to those? | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2013 02:11 FiveTouch wrote: The fact you're not taking issue with Oatsmaster, austin, is worrisome. Okay, swapping to actually look at oats over others, because he's more interesting and you're going to give me grief here. Oats has an asston of one-liners. Lots of one-liner questions, snarky one-liner comments. His town game in Newbie XXXV, died N1 as vigi, generally has more commentary and it's not just one liners. But there are still a decent amount of small questions, lots of little brief posts. He was scum in Newbie XXXII. That filter is FULL of small questions. Jesus that filter is horrendous. Link. It's all short, it's all quippy, lots of dinky little questions. Also managed to rack up a 7-page filter of one-liners and crap. Chrono was heavily themed, but his posts are slightly longer there from what I can see. However, his filters in both newbie games are full of little quips and questions, but slightly more when he was scum (imo). That's all past games, though. This game... I find him to be really inconsistent in his stuff about his early defense of JX. Saying there was pressure, saying there wasn't but a wagon might form, etc. That stuff doesn't look good. He's also nicely inconsistent on you, fivetouch. To some extent that may be connected to your wanting to lynch him, which I'll admit would make me not want to vote someone for mayor. I find this post townie - + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2013 11:26 Oatsmaster wrote: What made you change your mind Fivetouch? I thought your answer to why you didnt want to be mayor was So what changed? Yamato So red flag became null read? Why? He's commented more on JX than anyone else, imo. Lots of bringing that up and using it. Just an interesting thing in his filter. I'm not as clear-cut on oats as you guys are. He's not just null, there are definitely townie and scummy parts of his filter. Just not sure how I'm weighing them atm. To the extent you find him scummy based off posting style, his posting in past games looks scummy to me regardless of alignment, at least in terms of how much of it is one-liners, small questions. Someone who thinks he's scummy, talk with me about that yamato post. Does it do anything for you at all, even if it doesn't change your mind? | ||
austinmcc
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On January 22 2013 02:26 DearestSnot wrote: I don't think he should be lynched off of meta. But you, specifically, noted that he felt scummy as town. I wanted to check up on that and make sure.Austin, 3 of us have said that he plays the same, and all three of us have played at least one game with him. I personally don't hold newbie games to that high of a regard when considering meta, and the fact that you found multiple instances of him being modkilled simply furthers the idea that he plays inactively as town. I wouldn't say I'm confident he's town, but I will certainly say that you cannot call him scum based on meta. He's definitely a worse pick than even slightly scummy players in this game, and I would warrant that he is much worse than both Oats and prplhz. Gonna catch up on reading since all I caught was the last page. What I found was that he may have felt scummy to you guys last game, but that both doesn't seem to be the case in his earlier games AND the votes in YANMM don't line up with strong suspicion. He survived until endgame, and in the votecounts never had a vote from someone not you or scum. There's some kind of line between looking scummy and looking scummy enough to garner votes/get lynched. Maybe you guys always had better candidates, I don't know, but I don't think the looks scummy while being town defense holds at all. Which leaves me still finding his play THIS GAME to be scummy, and worth lynching him over. I don't want to lynch him on meta, but the only positive comment I saw flung his way was your meta-comment, which just doesn't check out for me. I'd disagree that he's a worse lynch than other players, and he remains my top candidate. When you catch up, talk to me about oats. In a vacuum, how does that post of his on yamato read? | ||
austinmcc
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On January 22 2013 02:37 JieXian wrote: Negatory.He's an inactive player and yet you want to lynch him for inactivity? What? He was actually quite active in the games he got modkilled. It looks more like he didn't vote, or got caught up last minute and missed voting, then got modkilled. It's odd, but oh well. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2013 02:42 FiveTouch wrote: If this is a real question, then it's because I didn't address every point that every player brought up about some guy, because I'm human, etc.austin, why did you fail to address the point that Oatsmaster didn't even look into the case on prplhz or comment on it, saying that he was against any mayor who wanted to lynch a lurker, and then further ended up voting for you because he liked that you were killing this particular lurker? If it's not a real question, knock it off. I'd like to believe I'm not for killing stutters for "lurking," but because of the actual posts he has. When I look at the posts you're talking about, I don't get full-on inconsistency from them, or at least what you're seeing. On January 21 2013 12:35 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok 5touch, I was wrong and you were right, I just feel that JX wasent scum off those 2 posts. HOWEVER, his disappearance since then is not good for him being town. I dont want to vote for a mayor that advocates lurker lynching because it removes the responsibility that the mayor has to justify his lynches. I want the mayor to not be fucking retarded and actually takes some responsibility for his actions. What you are seeing in the second post: On January 22 2013 01:25 Oatsmaster wrote: Right? That's what you're really taking issue with? That he identifies Stutter as a lurker, says he is going to lurk all game?Ok with Austin's reappearance, I am inclined to vote for him as mayor. Why? Because I feel that he has put in more effort into finding scum than 5touch and that he is willing to be transparent and all the things various people have said that the mayor be. He also stood up to lurky sandro early about JX when he couldve ignored the incident. That is one of the reasons I have a town tell on him. I also agree with his lynch target now that I read his reasoning and Stutter's filter. Stutter's posted 4 posts and just disappeared, I feel that as a town player, his start wouldve been continued through the thread but it was not to be which makes me think that he is putting up a front of activity at the start to allay all suspicions then lurking his way through the rest of the game. Vote: Austinmcc However, his first post is that he doesn't want a mayor whose policy is to lynch lurkers, because he wants an accountable mayor. That is actually WEIRD to me because I haven't seen a single mayor candidate who says "Let's lynch a lurker." Everyone seems to have actual reasons for voting the folks they want to vote, or hasn't given a specific candidate, afaik. So...that's just a funky statement given that, in my mind, there is no mayoral candidate with the platform that Oats is against a mayoral candidate having. That aside, I don't see the second post as fully inconsistent with the first. If you pull out different phrases, it matches up. Ok with Austin's reappearance, I am inclined to vote for him as mayor. Why? Because I feel that he has put in more effort into finding scum than 5touch and that he is willing to be transparent and all the things various people have said that the mayor be. He seems to have reasons to vote me besides my choice of lynch. While that may be playing a part, he at least identifies a couple things that I have done/said. When he references me and stutter, he says that he agrees with my lynch target after reading my reasoning. My reasoning is not "stutter is lurking kill stutter." So to me, that goes find with the first post. I'm not advocating lurker lynching at all, I've advocating stutter-lynching. He at least has paid lip-service to the idea that I have reasoning behind that advocacy.He also stood up to lurky sandro early about JX when he couldve ignored the incident. That is one of the reasons I have a town tell on him. I also agree with his lynch target now that I read his reasoning and Stutter's filter. | ||
austinmcc
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On January 22 2013 02:43 JieXian wrote: Getting modkilled is an undeniable sign of not caring much about playing mafia This is absolutely true. I'm not advocating lynching him because he doesn't care about playing mafia though, and nobody is defending him on the ground that he "usually doesn't care about playing mafia." Bugs said a thing about stutter's past games. I went to go look at the past games to see whether I agreed with the thing. I do not agree with the thing. That doesn't make bugs wrong, that doesn't make stutter mafia. It just means that the only thing I've seen that's a real reason not to lynch stutter is something I disagree with, so I'm still down for lynching stutter. | ||
austinmcc
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On January 22 2013 02:49 debears wrote: Austin Would you lynch stutters over sandroba right now? I would lynch stutters over sandroba right now + Show Spoiler + GAH, I HAVE BEEN CALLING HIM STUTTER FOR A COUPLE POSTS BECAUSE I SAW THAT AND ASSUMED I WAS ADDING AN S. BAD WHOEVER CALLED HIM STUTTER, BAD! I would lynched stutters over anyone right now. I think it was Gonzaw, but whoever said they hate some vets getting leeway because "they always play like this" or "they'll be useful if they're town" was right. It's dumb, but we do it. I'm not even really looking at sandroba critically right now because I have that mindset. It's pointed out every game that he's lazy as scum, and he never seems to be NOT lazy as scum, but there's nothing he's doing that I'm worried about right now? He hasn't been SUPER active in the town games I've seen from him, bar bureaucracy I think. So for now he's just not on my radar as a strong read either way, and I'm not going to lynch someone who is in that position. That's...a weird set of two people for you to pick. | ||
austinmcc
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On January 22 2013 02:56 JieXian wrote: What thing is that? Please be fast and I'm not joking around, trying to decide before I sleep. Bugs said that stutters usually looks scummy when he's town. On January 21 2013 11:09 DearestSnot wrote: I find the suspicion reasonable but I don't think I would lynch either of those players today. Nor would I lynch stutters, particularly because stutters is a player I would firmly put in the "scummy as town" column. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2013 03:00 debears wrote: META AND MISUSING META IS A PAIN IN THE ASS. So, you want to lynch a player who has known to barely contribute to town as town in his previous games (stutters) over a player who is highly respected as town and has not contributed (sandroba)? Why is that? I think that stutters is mafia because of his play THIS GAME. THIS GAME. The one we're in. Here are my reasons for thinking so. (1) His opening posts are VERY generic and add nothing. On January 20 2013 11:11 Stutters695 wrote: "I will place my vote on my best town read." "I like the idea of voting for a vet for mayor."Not going to bother running for anything since I'm terrible in the first day(and in general, but less so as it goes on) but I'll be placing my vote for mayor on whoever I have the best town read on (unless their plan seems terrible). Agreed on the voting a vet in. If nothing else they'll have enough meta/people have enough experience with them to get better reads off of their actions. On January 20 2013 12:33 Stutters695 wrote: @Chezinu You promise these things if you're elected but what reason do we have to believe you? If your plan requires you not revealing anything that's all well and good but why should we put our faith in you? Chezinu, a lot of people have been saying we can't trust you. So, I'd like to ask, how do we know we can trust you? (THESE QUESTIONS ARE ABSOLUTELY MEANINGLESS) (2) Small, but: On January 20 2013 11:55 Stutters695 wrote: Here is a long chain of posts, talking about Chezinu. Stutters finds Toad's argument to "make sense." To the extent that he asks an interesting question that GOES somewhere here, it's the idea that maybe we want to install a hard-to-read mayor, in hopes that the person wants folks to read them properly and will act in such a way that folks can read them.Makes sense. If this is common however aren't we risking lynching someone who seems easy to read because they mislynched d1 unless they have nearly flawless town play? I wouldn't necessarily lynch them because of a d1 mislynch but if lynching the mayor is probable sometime early doesn't that add incentive to make the mayor someone hard to read side then they're forced into doing something that helps generate a read? That's...a weird thought, probably not how anyone would play, but oh well. It's the question he asked. However, does he follow up on that question at all? NO! The one mildly interesting thing I see in stutters's filter is a question with NO follow-up. (3) To the extent you like "I'm doing x/looking at x/be right there guys" into "silence" as a scummy thing, On January 21 2013 03:20 Stutters695 wrote: Catching up now guys!Short posts yes, but it was like two hours into the game. I dropped the questions on toad because he answered and the discussion in the thread cleared it up pretty well for me. I'm catching up on the thread now. (4) Short posts yes, but it was like two hours into the game. I dropped the questions on toad because he answered and the discussion in the thread cleared it up pretty well for me. As mentioned before, I found MYSELF in my first scum game having a hard time not answering suspicion like this. Townie: "I'm suspicious of you for x!" Me: "Well, sure I did x, but ... y." I think that as new scum it's difficult to deny something tiny that another person finds scummy. Your mileage may vary here, but the way he responded to a little bit of pressure did not feel townie to me, that "yes, but" is something I find scummy.So that is THIS GAME. Those things took place here. That's the entirety of his posting. I want to lynch him because of that. The meta stuff is NOT why I want to lynch him. The meta stuff is meant as a response to anyone saying "he looks scummy as town." As an outside observer grabbing old stutters games, that does not appear to be the case. I disagree with their assessment. I find that even in games where he was modkilled., he was active, he was asking REAL questions, he was making cases, giving votes, asking for OP updates, stuff that showed he was playing and moving the game forward. Again, he was playing and moving the game forward in games where he was eventually modkilled. That is not what I see in this game, and I don't agree with their assessment that he's some player who always looks scummy when town. They have a single game to go off of and legitimately believe that. I do not legitimately believe that. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2013 03:15 debears wrote: Ok. Gotcha on the meta part austin Still. How can you honestly lynch stutters over Sandroba based on play this game? What more contribution has Sandroba brought to the table? Okay so, that is my reasoning to lynch stutters. Sandroba I have never seen particularly active apart from Bureaucracy. In Looney Lynching, he made it to the final day of a 96-hour-lynch on D1, and barely escaped with his life over a guy who actually WAS scum. He still didn't post too much, and he died N1 despite being quiet. In magical-world-swapping mafia, he was slightly more vocal, but wasn't leading the pack or anything. He felt like he just had a couple really decent, well-thought-out posts/reads. He was also in the non-lynch world D1, so maybe he didn't feel the need to be vocal, I dunno. Based on my play with sandroba then, I don't EXPECT a particularly vocal Sandroba. More a...walk softly and carry a big stick sandroba? I have not seen him take over a game, although apparently that has happened in the past. So it does not bother me if he's not trying to take over this one. I'm also NOT lynching based on "contribution." I'm lynching based on scumminess. I find stutters scummy. I don't find sandroba ANYTHING right now. He's barely been around, he had a read on JX that I didn't agree with but explained it when asked, and he correctly pointed out that I was wrong in one way I was looking at that JX post. Him being willing to engage in discussion like that, and noting in a second or third response that I was dead wrong about something, is about the only thing that I actively had to read him off of. It's not scummy to me. His inactivity could be anything. He IS valuable if left alive. So WHY would I want to kill him? I guess that's the crux of this for me. I think stutters is mafia and I actively want to see him lynched. I don't think sandroba is mafia right now, there's not much to go on, and I don't actively want to see him lynched. I'm not lynching based on contribution, nor should we be. So I just don't see why I would be lynching sandroba. Some people HAVE legitimate concerns that they keep vocalizing about him, gonzaw being one, but I don't know how I feel about sandroba personally and THEY aren't even clamoring for his lynch. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2013 03:02 FiveTouch wrote: + Show Spoiler + On January 22 2013 02:51 austinmcc wrote: If this is a real question, then it's because I didn't address every point that every player brought up about some guy, because I'm human, etc. If it's not a real question, knock it off. I'd like to believe I'm not for killing stutters for "lurking," but because of the actual posts he has. When I look at the posts you're talking about, I don't get full-on inconsistency from them, or at least what you're seeing. What you are seeing in the second post: Right? That's what you're really taking issue with? That he identifies Stutter as a lurker, says he is going to lurk all game? However, his first post is that he doesn't want a mayor whose policy is to lynch lurkers, because he wants an accountable mayor. That is actually WEIRD to me because I haven't seen a single mayor candidate who says "Let's lynch a lurker." Everyone seems to have actual reasons for voting the folks they want to vote, or hasn't given a specific candidate, afaik. So...that's just a funky statement given that, in my mind, there is no mayoral candidate with the platform that Oats is against a mayoral candidate having. That aside, I don't see the second post as fully inconsistent with the first. If you pull out different phrases, it matches up. He seems to have reasons to vote me besides my choice of lynch. While that may be playing a part, he at least identifies a couple things that I have done/said. When he references me and stutter, he says that he agrees with my lynch target after reading my reasoning. My reasoning is not "stutter is lurking kill stutter." So to me, that goes find with the first post. I'm not advocating lurker lynching at all, I've advocating stutter-lynching. He at least has paid lip-service to the idea that I have reasoning behind that advocacy. You're so fluffy, you post a lot but tend to manage to miss the main highlights. 1) Oats doesn't want to have a mayor who wants to lynch lurkers 2) Oats does not comment on prplhz at all 3) Oats likes your Stutters lynch, at least in part because "...he has 4 posts...then [he's going to] lurk his way through the game" Why is Oats not commenting on prplhz at all? Why is he liking the lurking aspect of the Stutters case when being completely against it for the mayor? Why did Oats attack me repeatedly and tarnish my motives, and then say "I bleed town"? Yeah yeah, I'm fluffy. And you ask lots of rhetorical questions, or questions aimed at the wrong party. Oats does not comment on prplhz, that's true. Nobody but oats can tell you why. I read what you have as (1) and (3) here differently than you do, but again, only Oats knows what's happening in Oatsbrain. I find point (1) odd, that post odd, because he seems to be giving this generic "I don't want a mayor who is just going to lynch a lurker" thought, when NO mayoral candidate wanted to do that. That thought, vocalizing it out of nowhere in the middle of a post, IS weird. But I find his later bit liking a stutters lynch to be in harmony with the earlier post, because it's NOT a lurker lynch. I'm not proposing lynching stutters because he's lurking, so I don't see why supporting me would run afoul of not wanting to elect a mayor who wants to lurker lynch. | ||
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United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2013 03:22 DearestSnot wrote: Mainly because neither of them have made the posts that stutters has? Like...I take issue with what stutters has posted. Unless they've been logging into his account and posting for him, I attribute stutters's filter to him alone.austin if you are so concerned about stutters for his play THIS GAME (regardless of however naive I think your opinion of meta is) why are you not on Clarity's ass or on sandro for the exact same reasons? As far as any similarities they have with his posting. For sandro, within game, because he's had SOME contribution that stutters hasn't (again, for me in particular, he had the JX read that I disagreed with, followed up when I asked him a question, pointed out that I was wrong, etc.). Then for all the other reasons that Gonzaw dislikes/you might expect. I'm one of those people who generally fights a vet lynch on D1. I couldn't see the push for a Foolishness lynch in D1 of magical world swapping. I couldn't see the logic behind marv being on Palmar's case D1 in rock band. I am just generally against lynching vets on D1, to a fault. So I wouldn't be on sandro's ass even if people were building legitimate cases on him. I also don't think I've seen anything beyond mild suspicion directed sandro's way. Nobody seems to really be coming out and saying SANDRO IS SCUM AND WE SHOULD LYNCH HIM OVER ALL OTHERS. Just mentioning that he's absent/lazy/not contributing and maybe he's scum or maybe should be lynched, but without really pushing. For clarity, because I haven't been looking at him as much. I found stutters scummy, I haven't unfound stutters scummy. Haven't dealt with clarity much. Lots of tiny posts, little questions. Doesn't look great. I don't buy into unfulfilled promises being a surefire scumtell, I'm NOT relying on those for stutters, but yes, clarity does promise action and not deliver. Heck, the most interesting thing to me in clarity's filer is: On January 20 2013 13:30 Clarity_nl wrote: just a funky little unique thought, in a post where he actively votes himself for mayor. It's not really anything to base a read off of, but it's the only curious thing in his filter for me.I would like whomever is in the lead to become mayor at any given time to act like they are a dayvig and get people going with the threat (and follow-up) of shooting them. | ||
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On January 22 2013 03:32 FiveTouch wrote: He at least pays lip service to the fact that he likes my "reasoning" on stutters. We can't really say anything beyond going back and forth about this. Is he the towniest guy in here? No. Did I complain about your post in which you imply that I'm a bad mayor or a possibly scummy mayor because oats is voting for me? No. (Although that's a pretty bullshit post, imo). For now, stutters is still scummy to me, scummier than oats, of whom I don't really know what to make.I'm not arguing that you're simply lynching a lurker, the thing is that his main summary for *him* agreeing with your read is the lurking aspect. I ask rhetorical questions to bring you around to a different way of thinking. Frankly your assuredness that Stutters is mafia, combined with the fact you dismiss the prplhz wagon for nebulous reasons, is bizarre to say the least: Effectively prplhz gets attacked early when he's both town and scum, so you're wary of lynching into him? Given you were so keen to look into Stutters' meta, can you find a town prplhz game where he entered the game in a similar fashion to this one? (as opposed to the mafia games I referenced). The arguments against prplhz are simply far stronger than the stringy case you have on Stutters. OH MAN. NUMBER ONE REASON TO VOTE ME. "OF WHOM I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT TO MAKE." DO YOU WANT ALL YOUR MAYORAL POSTS TO SOUND MAYORAL? BAM! Looking through the couple recent town games that prplhz played in, not really. He was relatively splashy in rock band. 2nd real post of the game was him saying: On September 18 2012 06:07 prplhz wrote: hey guys please no unnecessary bullshit it's perfectly possible to play the game without that and it only serves to make the game harder to read there are a couple of people around i have no idea who is, can anybody explain to me who mkfuba07 is? Followed by the third real post of the game, + Show Spoiler + On September 18 2012 06:48 Blazinghand wrote: You only ask this question or similar when you roll scum. Scum games where you asked the question: GSL Open: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925&user=126438 You open this game with DF Mini: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=358346&user=126438 You wait quite a bit after the game start to open up with this: The scum game in which you don't ask this question, you aggressively push a Policy Lynch of MrZ because he's a terrible player: Movie Star: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=346522&user=126438 And you open the attack like this: What these openers all have in common is that they generate discussion and let you make accusations without backing them up, doing analysis, or generating associative tells. Obviously it's not perfect, since you caught some heat for it in Movie star, but you deflected the heat rather expertly in my opinion. Now, admittedly, the link between this openings seems tenuous at first glance. But the difference between how you open as scum and how you open as town is like night and day-- I've hosted and co-hosted enough games with you in it to tell the difference (yes, that's an appeal to authority, but it's a legitimate appeal). Obviously, I want people to evaluate the evidence for themselves, so I'm gonna point out some Town games where you could have asked this question or similar, but quite notably did not, because you actually do the work yourself as Town. In fact, you never ask the question as town. Notably, you don't ask the question in the following games that had smurfs or people you hadn't played with before. Town games, in which you don't ask the question: Mad Men Mini: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668&user=126438 In this game, you roll town, and here's your opening post: This is a real town post. Yeah, you get lynched D1 but you start off with not just some general platitudes about posting, you actually encourage the players you don't know to post. You don't ask inane questions. You're fearless, and aren't afraid to vote first (link) and ratchet up the pressure afterwards (link) which may not be the best strat, but is definitely townie. You are bullheaded with your reads and aggressive. You don't prod first then vote, you vote then prod. All this in a game in which admittedly there are people you don't know at all. It's what a townie would do. In iGrok's Mini http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558&user=126438 you had to replace in, and this was your opening post: Obviously some of this was necessitated by replacing in for a lurking townie N1. But what's your followup? How does a town prplhz charge into a difficult game? Why, he votes first (link) and provides evidence and support later (link) (link) (link) This covers just about everything going back through July, with one notable exception: You rolled scum in Normal Mini II and proceeded to play a highly worthless scumgame http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349058&user=126438 consisting mostly of votes and one-liners. I hope we'd lynch you for anything like this, but this is the one game that doesn't fit into this meta-analysis of your play this game, so I thought I'd bring it up. Scum prplhz doesn't ALWAYS ask inane questions / take baseless positions-- once, he voted randomly and only posted one-liners. Still, I think the evidence is clear: prplhz as scum likes to ask dumb questions and take stances that don't reveal any scumhunting, and prplhz as town is aggressive with his vote and follows it up with questioning, rather than carefully prodding first. Town prplhz is fearless and not afraid to die to prove his point. He's not cautious. He's also not present this game. This is scum prplhz. Scum prplhz does vague prodding like he has in this game (link) and unhelpful questioning (his entire filter lol) Also, from a purely analytical perspective, this isn't what a townie does. As a townie, yes, you ask questions, but you ask questions that are reasonable and that force people to respond in ways that reveal their scumminess. When you ask someone a question, you do it to pressure them and to get information. You do it for the town. Town prplhz would NOT ask this question: Because Town ANYBODY would not ask that question. Numerous people answered it instantly (and also noted that prplhz already knew the answer himself) and it looked, at first, like it was a discussion-generator. It's not. Randomly regurgitating what games someone has replaced into isn't discussion. Prplhz isn't discussing things. He's just slapping shit in the thread and hoping we let him skate by. He's husslin us. No more husslin. ##vote: prplhz come at me bro Perhaps it's just that. I almost got caught up in "Look at prplhz's first post this game guys, he always posts like this when scum" before. And it was just a bullshit get discussion started case, despite looking decent, and prplhz DID end up getting mislynched D1. Not directly because of that case, but it certainly put him in the public eye, and his responses to that stupid case were a lot of what did him in. Sure, it's nebulous/bizarre. But it is what it is. I just don't like the prplhz lynch today. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2013 05:45 Toadesstern wrote: I will assume you're signaling your Captain Planet buddies and accuse you of being scum, based on historical evidence.what if I post something that makes me almost certainly town for everyone and also a damn good candidate for being sheriff. Should I do that and would people be voting me if I did it? | ||
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On January 22 2013 04:58 Stutters695 wrote: I voted toad because his style seems much easier to read than yours, chezinus, or palmars to me. I even was doubting Palmar after the d1 lynch, and I had a scumread on you that was wrong almost the entire game. Toads style feels much more like my own and I think that will help us analyze why he would do whatever he does after becoming mayor. Stutters, this post. Are you basing your mayoral vote on...who is easiest to read? Also, I'm concerned about the "Toad's style feels like my own" --> "that will help us analyze what he does" bit. A lot of your defense to my suspicions of you revolved around people not reading you properly or you always getting called out/suspected for certain things. On January 22 2013 03:45 Stutters695 wrote: If you think that you play a poor D1, and think that people attack you for stuff you do every game, then why would you want a mayor whose play you find similar to yours? If people actually suspect you every game, doesn't that indicate that you're easy to misread, and that a player similar to you as mayor would NOT be easy to analyze?Well I was reading in order, didn't see Austin's more recent posts. 1) I get accused of that every game. Falls back to the I suck d1 stuff. Up to you if you believe it, but it happened in YANMM and Whose Line. 2) Weird if you're experienced maybe, but to me I wasn't sure how often a mayor mislynch happens because the first posts in that matter made it seem like an eventuality rather than a possibility. My thinking was that people probably have discussed this in past games and it still resulted in a mayor mislynch. Thus I was asking if using the mayor to force reads out of someone hard to read makes sense. I felt Toad answered it well in the ensuing discussion so I felt no.need to follow it up. 3) You said in the previous post I quoted that I keep the thread informed and come back with actual thoughts. That's true sometimes, but I don't always see something to immediately follow up on. This happened in pretty much every game I play. Again people have attacked me for this. 4)I have a detailed post on this in YANMM but I believe that full disclosure (unless there is some gambit like Proms in the same game) is the best course of action. So when you ask me something and I say "yes, but" you're going to hear why I did it. You may think the reason for a particular instance may be scummy but over the course of the game it will show a clear town mindset and show how I reasoned whatever conclusion I come to. | ||
austinmcc
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On January 22 2013 06:08 DearestSnot wrote: you mean austin? I have no votes. Congrats on hitting 44! | ||
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On January 22 2013 06:22 Vivax wrote: Toad, I think it's of vital importance that austin doesn't get a seat. If there is no extra supporter to elect you Chezinu is my next favourite over austin. When did the change in heart occur, and what brought it about? On January 20 2013 19:51 Vivax wrote: I have questions, too:
On January 21 2013 09:03 Vivax wrote: ## Vote Sandroba If he's town, he won't be killed and be of great use. If he's scum, he won't be able to hide it for long in that position. Don't choose based on some mood. Even if sandro doesn't want it, a good town should want him in that position. I don't like austin, I don't like gonzaw. Clarity didn't post his reads and he's usually not the guy who wants to take the lead. Voting Chezinu, are you fucking kidding me?Oatsmaster? Nah. On January 21 2013 09:20 Vivax wrote: Why would you want to vote for Chezinu? That is something people that don't care about town would do. I wouldn't put my faith into a guy who speaks in riddles. On January 21 2013 10:09 Vivax wrote: 2. I don't want to vote for Chezinu cause he trolls and is almost impossible to read. The Chezinu rule has nothing to do with this, you're just mentioning it for I don't know what reason. Probably cause you can't explain why you ignore everyone else speaking against a Chezinu mayor. On January 22 2013 01:23 Vivax wrote: Seriously, stay the fuck away from gonzaw and austin. I'd rather have Chezinu mayor than these two. into On January 22 2013 06:22 Vivax wrote: Toad, I think it's of vital importance that austin doesn't get a seat. If there is no extra supporter to elect you Chezinu is my next favourite over austin. | ||
austinmcc
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On January 22 2013 06:28 Vivax wrote: Alright, but you became remarkably inconsistent.It's simple austin, cause I don't trust you. I'd rather have a troll have the seat than someone who might be scum. On January 22 2013 06:24 Vivax wrote: Cause town could simply admit to have made a mistake. JX is clearly afraid of looking bad to the point that he makes up shit. If you don't trust me, I don't think you're properly reading my play, but your read is your read. However, I'm confused both by you being anti-Chezinu all game and now being okay voting him, AS WELL AS this comment. If it's townie to admit a mistake, and one of your main gripes with me is me picking out that jester thing from JX's early post, which I later noted WAS a mistake, then...that should be townie in your eyes? I'm just not finding these trains of thought to be consistent. Either you wouldn't actually find someone townie when they admit a mistake, or you've got some sort of extra criteria that you aren't telling us/aware of (which could potentially just be "how does this person feel about JX?"). | ||
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/tinfoilhat | ||
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On January 22 2013 06:46 Vivax wrote: You all (debears, mkfuba, austin) must be really super-convinced that austin and JX are town if you flak me like that for a tentative scum read. What exactly do you want me to do? Isn't it electing austin? To lynch whom? Stutters for playing like I know him from D1? No thanks. Look, I find people suspicious who shovelled shit at me for my absence. I find people super suspicious who instead of posting their reasoning about it (like gonzaw did=semi-admitting that it wasn't a good point and in the end null cause I was sleeping) write that they had a reason to do so cause of some outer reason that has nothing to do with their thinking (the US tag), which then turns out to be wrong. When called out for it, they don't answer. Tell me, wouldn't you suspect scum behind it? You seem to be really convinced that he is town. I'm remarkably convinced that I am town, yes. I'm not convinced that JX is town. I mainly just want to be able to tell what everyone is thinking and WHY, which I can't do if you are inconsistent. Like before you didn't trust me and thought I might be scum. Now you don't want to elect me because I'll lynch stutters, a townread of yours. Let alone the fact that the sheriff wouldn't lynch anyone, and that is the position that seems to be in contention here. So it should be based again on thinking I might be scum, not based on who I might lynch. | ||
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The hammer is my penis. The wank-fiend is Annul | ||
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On January 22 2013 07:20 FiveTouch wrote: I can't help but interpret "it's encouraging that..." as the verbal equivalent of petting a cat or dog for a successful trick. Can't figure out how I feel about that, except that I like the image.It's encouraging that you're bringing annul up, on my read through this evening he came up as quite possibly mafia to me. He focuses in on Vivax, who is remarkably easy to attack as either alignment. He's done this at the expense of anything else, despite complaining that he's being ignored. Annul's just kind of an anomaly at this point. He IS focused on vivax/toad and, to a lesser extent, axle's posting. He's got more than a page of filter, way more than other players who have been inactive, but it's mostly forgettable. I'm always surprised to see that there's a next page for him. That said, I'm not even sure I'm at "quite possibly mafia" on him. I don't know him or his play well, but if he's scum then his lack of presence on D1 in a mayoral game feels off. I'd expect him to be trying to get SOME kind of control over things, unless all of the candidates are equally meh. | ||
austinmcc
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On January 22 2013 07:32 FiveTouch wrote: To the highlighted, that's an issue that I've been struggling with your alignment this evening, so for my read on you it's a good sign you're bringing up annul. The last time I saw annul play he seemed more involved, for better or for worse. The fact he's been more irrelevant this game is certainly not anything approaching a town-tell, as you seem to be suggesting. Yeah, that's what I'm suggesting. It's pure speculation, but I WOULD assume that if one/multiple of the more veteran players in this game rolled scum, they'd be trying to exert control over the votes. It seems like there's been enough variety in candidates, but still with a few main vote-getters, that scum can't just be sitting pretty all day not having to do a thing. Me bringing up annul shouldn't count for anything alignment-wise. I'm just noting that Chezinu is courting votes from a couple people who seem to be lurking, and Toad was courting Gonzaw's lone vote. Neither of them courted Annul, who has both a lone vote AND is relatively lurky. It wasn't bringing up his play, wasn't comparing him to the Liquid City game, but just noting that his vote was sitting all alone and yet neither of them were speaking to him. | ||
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This post: On January 22 2013 05:45 Toadesstern wrote: which I took to at least be HINTING that you had a role or something, or maybe trying to draw shots by hinting that, compared with:+ Show Spoiler +what if I post something that makes me almost certainly town for everyone and also a damn good candidate for being sheriff. Should I do that and would people be voting me if I did it? On May 27 2012 21:19 Toadesstern wrote: Lol game started and it's already 6 pages. Anyways Mayoral Campaign before anything else here we go! I plan on running for mayor The 2 major aspects of my candidacy:
Point 1 is easily proven (not gonna lie, cpy & pasted): + Show Spoiler [d1 reads from my last 5 games] + L: Erandorr, turned out red. Next one: Sandroba, turned out red AC: Schworz My one big failure, but that guy fakeclaimed DT and told people he got a red check on my mod-confirmed bodyguard in a game without framers as a townie, lol. Ever since that happened I just completly lost myself and derped the game. Storm: RoL, WBG, VE RoL was the strongest read but he basicly claimed mafia in the thread so that doesn't count. WBG flipped mafia, VE flipped SK, pick one of those C9++ #2: VE, guy flipped mafia I feel like I forgot a game as townie and I'm pretty sure my main mafia read that game was wrong as well but don't know for sure, so just take these. So as you can see my best d1-read is usually incredible good while I myself have no idea why. I am having huge troubles to explain what I am seeing in people when I am a townie which led to the believe that it's my intuition, which again, was proven horribly wrong when I attempted to play AC completly on the fly, just by intuition. And everyone knows how that game went :p I'm not saying the people I listed above got lynched d1 but that I told people those are my strongest reads d1 and noone wanted to lynch them because I wasn't able to explain why I wanted them lynched properly which sounds weird for most people (understandable) because it could just as well be a mafia who does not want to explain his reads because he knows they're wrong. So basicly: Look at that statistic. I am going to give you mafia or at least not-town d1 unless some jackass townie fakeclaiming DT and a red check on a modconfirmed green comes along screwing my radar and pissing me off. About point 2: I think I am reeeeeeally good when getting mafia. Not because my mafia play is incredible good but because I think I am really good at making it look exactly the same way my townplay looks. In general vets (except for syllo) told me my mafia play is good. WBG claimed VE and I did the best action TL-mafia has ever seen from a pair of mafias in LI. Rad keeps telling me I'm unreadable and so does WBG. Most of the times people play with me for the first time as mafia they think I am pretty much confirmed townie. Remember the Annul disaster? I was a mafia and Annul asked people in the thread who is the most likely / best townread in general and people (like Rad) said it's me resulting in me getting a free day-vig shot as mafia. That's not because I'm good at playing mafia but I am incredible good at making it look like a townie no matter how retarded the situation might be. Doing mistakes on purpose because I think my town-self would do the same mistake in that situation and being very transparent as mafia. People have a really hard time figuring you out like that. So I'm probably going to have a really hard time to make my alignment clear because people are giving me a really hard time due to my play as mafia. I'd usually say the way to figure me out is derpage or reads but since I told you that I can at least fake derpage myself. So you might ask yourself: wtf Toad. Why are you telling us you're scary as mafia? Fear not for I am not mafia this game and I will have a hard time proving that because people think I am unreadable. So let me propose we solve both issues at once. You make me mayor, I give you a dead mafia d1, you will be at ease for a moment unless all the jubjubs appear telling people "well that could be Toad bussing his buddy d1!!!!!" until I make you lynch into my next strongest read again :p So basicly my candidacy is based on lynching whoever I think is the best shot we have at getting anti-town. That will most likely not be the guy town in general wants dead but someone most people will agree on, that he's looking suspicious. If I lynch into some guy that town thinks is the most suspicious that's not an alignment tell at all (for you guys) unless I was heavily pushing him myself, rendering the plan useless That's it, reading the thread now :p On May 28 2012 03:40 Toadesstern wrote: Screw this, don't feel like explaining why I am town, because I don't need to LOL I'm fucking modconfirmed townie. And this is not some Toadi-confirmed this is hands down modconfirmed. I am a Mason and there is no Anti-town role that can produce a mason result according to our OP. I can tell who I wish to mason once n1 has started and once I did that I can talk to the guy. I assume that means talking to him once d2 has started. I can mason ANYONE I WANT meaning I can confirm this and as mentioned there's no mafia or 3rd party role like that. Now you might ask yourself: "But toadi, what if you are mafia and faking this by outing 2 mafias (you and your "masonbuddy", not to mention that that would be completly retarded from a mafia point of view but whatever)? We can't be sure if you really are a mason at all!" I am an awesome mason. The most awesome masons of them all, meaining I can choose a new "target" every night, meaning I can reproduce that confirmation every night if you wish me to. If you believe I am mafia fakeclaiming, fine lynch me if I'm not telling the "truth" d2, I'll flip town and you lynch the guy who said "wait, toad said he masoned me but I did not get a mason-thingy!" afterwards and you get a mafia. If I am town I'm telling the truth and can prove it d2, which means I'm going to be shot n1 again, but I'm counting on that anyways so might as well take a mafia with me and I will. That's it. Vote me pls ❤ Both big mayoral games. In LV you went big out of the gate, posting a campaign. Within like 7 hours of that, you claimed your mason recruiter ability, and did a lot of your campaigning based on the fact that you were blue and could ensure your townieness by masoning folks. You've got to admit that you're little "What if I did this?" question is cryptic, and perhaps I just interpreted it differently than everyone, but I couldn't help noticing that it was very much unlike LV when you campaigned on your role. | ||
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On January 22 2013 07:50 Vivax wrote: I didn't think my comment would be front-page news, given his statement.Austin, if you suspect Toad to have a role, you shouldn't mention it, and you should be pushing for him to get into that safe position. At least that'd be my idea of optimal play in this case. | ||
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Given that you seem to want toad with bodyguards, and toad wants toad with bodyguards, but does not want Chez with bodyguards, why keep your vote on Chez? | ||
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On January 22 2013 08:14 Vivax wrote: I try to lie a lot and attract attention to me by playing inconsistently so that I can lead my scumbuddies to victory obviously, why do you ask? Until Toad gets another vote you'll be sheriff top candidate if I switch to Toad (you still are cause you got majority first I think). So my vote stays where it is. Pointless question, I already said why I switched to Chez before. I'm writing a JX analysis. You put your vote on Chezinu, who would be the second player to have 4. That didn't change anything, unless you have a magical plan to move multiple votes around, which would make you scum. I don't actually think you're scum this game, but I can't get a handle on your play. If you want Toad to be sheriff, then voting chezinu doesn't help. If you want not-me to be sheriff, then voting chezinu doesn't help. So you've taken an action that does nothing, really, unless you can move more votes. And the action you took was wrong for you if you can move more votes, because you want toad and not chezinu. So...I are confused. | ||
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On January 22 2013 08:51 Djodref wrote: Mason isn't alignment-determinative this game, but if you believe he's townie then no, there's not really a reason not to try and get him protection. I do like the idea of Toad, if he's town, being able to engage in mason chats without risking a night kill, or with scum having to out 1-2 members in order to take him out quickly. I'm just waking up, not time to catch up properly... I'd like to have Toad sheriff based on his mason claim, is there any reason I should not ? | ||
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On January 22 2013 08:57 Vivax wrote: At no recent point have I been pushing my candidacy.Well, then I'm repeating what I said earlier, austin. If you already believed he has a role, and now are sure of it, why were and are you trying to push your candidacy over his? Does it mean you think he's scum? | ||
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On January 22 2013 08:57 Vivax wrote: Well, then I'm repeating what I said earlier, austin. If you already believed he has a role, and now are sure of it, why were and are you trying to push your candidacy over his? Does it mean you think he's scum? Adding on, It's quite easy for me to sit back and watch, because my vote is on me. If you don't vote Chez, I can easily switch to Toad and change the voting myself. I've not been campaigning for myself, but I don't need to campaign for Toad either. | ||
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On January 22 2013 09:13 Toadesstern wrote: First, just so you know I'm town, you could also both be scum with you actually being a mason, holding the mason power for a single cycle, and pretty much knocking the thought out of anyone's head that you could both be scum. I'm going to assume you didn't lend your account info to drazerk though, and instead be 99.99% sure that's not what is happening.do you think I as a mafia would mason town sandroba? It's either both Sandro and me town or Sandro mafia (unlikely) and I am town. I think that you would generally play the same way as mafia or town. If townToad would mason Sandro, then scumToad would likely do the same, otherwise you'd end up getting caught later for no good reason. But that's not really a factor here. I thought strongly that you were town at the beginning of this cycle. There was a weird point in the middle where I became less sure. I'm trying to figure out where I became less certain, to put in my full due diligence, but I was also just sitting around seeing what would happen after your claim. | ||
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On January 22 2013 09:27 Toadesstern wrote: Alright then.Yeah I somewhat agree. Both on the fact that I forgot about the double mafia possibility (because I'm not and you don't seem to believe it either, but yeah it's possible) and on the fact that I'd probably do the same as mafia. If not, I'm totally going to do it next time I roll mafia because of this :p But people generally consider it a towntell because they don't think I've got the balls to do that as mafia. Either way what it means is that I'll continue masoning strong people and if I'm really mafia I'm helping you figure me out this way by doing so and I won't be a problem. On top of that I'm actually just town and it's really awesome to have a mason for that role for reasons you already mentioned :p Do you feel completely happy with FT as mayor? His vote-getting and mayorship in general? If not, do you feel like you can answer honestly or is that giving something away? We have the option to adjust which of you is which, I suppose, and I don't think that the D1 lynch is fully telling, but him as mayor means both us getting info from his D1 lynch AND giving him a triple vote foevah. | ||
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On January 22 2013 09:57 gonzaw wrote: I am fine with toad as sheriff. Hmm. Okay, does someone feel like me or austin should be sheriff? The voting is pretty close and there is little time left. If someone is willing to vote me for sheriff I'll keep my vote, if not I'll vote Toad just in case (or maybe just leave it like it is since he's in the lead) Also, I'm going to be understandably suspicious of anyone who hasn't been speaking up and suddenly tries to pull something. Right now I like the FT/Toad lineup, and so I'm keeping my vote where it is since things are fine. | ||
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Also, given that prplhz was scum, I wouldn't be surprised if I had 2 scum, or at some point during the cycle had about 2 scum, on my list of votes. Stutters still doesn't leave me with a townie feeling, but I picked up a couple weird votes and I was in the don't lynch prplhz camp. | ||
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On January 22 2013 11:11 AxleGreaser wrote: Snowmen. Dogs.+ Show Spoiler [I hear non existent people] + On January 22 2013 10:55 wherebugsgo wrote: let me put it this way: why are you not trying to think for yourself? You seem to have come to a conclusion. Why is it necessary to say anything if you believe Chezinu is town? Is he under suspicion right now? I have no problems at all with the asymmetries posed by smurf accounts at all. Well none I can mention in this ongoing game I do actually accept hat given the cluster fuck that exist this may actually be the clearest and most open course of action After all some people dont read walls of text carefully. | ||
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On January 22 2013 11:15 Toadesstern wrote: that's actually a legit point. I started getting votes very late so I'd say there's bound to be something inside the group of people voting for you or inside the group of people voting for chez. He had 3 people voting for him as well after all and if I remember correctly you didn't get much more than that at any point. Definitely worth a look at. inb4 another awesome ven-diagram from Toad figuring out mafia! The chez voters were chez/axle/grush for a while. Not exactly votes that I find informative. The votes on me aren't wonderfully informative, given that one is from me and one was from sandroba. Bar the early votes from you and fivetouch, I had oats and djo on me at times. Late enough tonight that I'm going to put it off, but tomorrow I'll look at when in terms of the feel of the game they voted me, unless someone else has beat me to it. I know oats's vote was a post that people had issue with, and the "Why would you vote austin when oats is voting austin?" comment was a legitimate concern when it was made. djodref's exact reasons I don't remember. There were also some...halfvotes? BKE says he would have voted for me. I believe it was mocsta who voted me in the thread but not in the voting thread itself? | ||
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On January 22 2013 11:28 Toadesstern wrote: well when voteanalyzing you don't look at the people and their reasoning but just plain old facts, who voted who. Voting you or voting chez at a time when it was known that prplhz was FT's prime lynch candidate is or at least might be a mafia treat. Analyzing what that means and wether that's useful information comes afterwards :p Their votes were crazy-early from what I remember. But yeah, worth checking the exact times on. | ||
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Time to stop posting before actually double checking names/times. | ||
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Wavering back and forth on whether bodyguards should be outed. We have possible medics, possible jacks who could act as medics, and toad's sheriff power. Even if scum install two scum bodyguards, they can't be guaranteed to hit all three targets that would know the identity of the bodyguards. Moreover, if they fail to kill toad, there's the chance he masons someone tomorrow and is comfortable giving out the identities of the bodyguards to THAT player, and then killing FT/toad/sandro still doesn't hide the identities of the bodyguards if both are scum. Just seems like "all-in" doesn't even describe how risky a play 2 scum bodyguards would be, because there's a decent chance you give up half your team for a SHOT at killing 3 players on N1. That said, off the top of my head I don't see a ton of downside in giving out the names, because we hit mafia on D1 and protective roles could just as easily screw up mafia's ability to take out town bodyguards, except for Toad's jail. Just as a side note, we're also almost guaranteed to out a mafia later in the game because of the mafia mason. I found it incredibly unlikely that you'd hold your mason power D1 if you/sand were scum Toad, and I also find it incredibly unlikely that ANY mason would hold that power. So it's likely that SOMEONE was contacted by the mafia mason during D1. I don't think we need to force mason claims right now, but I remember mad men having some mafia masons get caught just because of their roles, and it's bound to happen here as well. Assuming we're already zeroing in on a list of a few players for tomorrow's lynch, if any of them masoned someone D1, the masonee should go ahead and out the mason if the masonee shares the general suspicion of that player. /unrelatedspeculationoff | ||
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On January 23 2013 04:38 yamato77 wrote: Yes, I am. There are a couple compartmentalized discussions going on right now, but the mason bit is something I don't think should get left behind while these other things are happening.Austin, I already outed Grush as mason. Are people reading my filter? Your outing Grush as a mason does not mean we only have 2 masons, however. It's entirely possible that we had more than 2 people masoned on D1 (between regular masons OR the mason ability of a jack), and the possible-non-you masonees need to be considering who masoned them and what went on in chat. More just something that I don't want to get lost, I was writing that post during the time Sandroba posted, and it looks a little more unnecessary that it did when we'd gone pages without bringing up you/grush/masons in general and didn't want that to get lost. | ||
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On January 23 2013 06:02 annul wrote: I don't know that I've ever played against scumtoad, tbh.i also think its funny how toad is SHERIFF (aka cant be DT'd) and he and vivax i suspected the most. now toad wants me dead too. hmmmm. also, mafias get "some number" of masons in addition to any other roles they have. his mason post means absolutely nothing. also, we have absolutely no way to confirm that those are real logs, or that they haven't been doctored in any way, etc. its funny cuz toad uses his mason as "town cred" and he is sheriff which cannot be DT'd... and mafia can mason day 1 all the same... Do you believe scumtoad would start swinging more votes towards him by half-claiming mason like this: On January 22 2013 05:45 Toadesstern wrote: When the logic is kind of crappy given that there are mafia masons? Serious question. I don't actually have a great handle on what his reputation is, exactly, as scum.what if I post something that makes me almost certainly town for everyone and also a damn good candidate for being sheriff. Should I do that and would people be voting me if I did it? Secret paranoia spoiler:+ Show Spoiler + This post is almost funny given DearestSnot's identity: On January 20 2013 13:33 Toadesstern wrote: But also makes me paranoid worried that, in the case that one of those two DOES flip mafia, the other may be as well. Assuming that when smurfing, one reveals himself to his mafia teammates if he rolls mafia, which may or may not be the norm.I think grush should under no circumstance get ANYWHERE close to a position of power. I'd rather vote WBG to be mayor than you. Luckily he's not in the game. | ||
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Here is a kitten We/FiveTouch lynched scum D1. That is good. That is fantastic. We have some low/no-activity players, that is not good (and I've been one of them the last 24 hours). But that's also relatively normal for a large game. We're in a good position. All of half the accusations have become super negative, and people are getting sucked in to responding to negativity with negativity. Be the kitten instead. The kitten is not negative. If you're just SUSPICIOUS of someone, or less-sure than others about that person's townieness, that's fine. That's probably helpful, to just bring it up and challenge things. But if all you have is a suspicion, and you think it nearly impossible to lynch a person today (I'm thinking mainly Axle --> Toad here), watch that person, continue building your suspicion or let it drop, and eventually make a case. Everyone should know that Toad isn't confirmed, but he's neither confirmed town nor confirmed scum. Him not being confirmed isn't useful information, and while suspicion can be helpful it's NOT if you gum up the thread with it and it never gets anywhere. Wait, watch what he does, watch what others do, and if your suspicion turns into a legit scumread, make a case. Please? ANNUL If you don't want to waste energy defending yourself, fine. That's on you. But do you actually buy into the idea that a mafioso probably ran for mayor yesterday? Do you buy into BC balancing the game in terms of giving scum a solid vet? Posts like this - + Show Spoiler + NINJAVOTERS Is nobody else concerned with the rush of ninja voting we had? On January 23 2013 10:42 debears wrote: Btw, I say we take the focus of oats and me for today. I'll get nked tomorrow. If Oats is town he will too. ##vote annul ##vote double lynch Debears previous mentions of annul - 0 Debears previous mentions of oats - 0 (Although they both just got outed as bodyguards so i can understand that) Debears previous mentions of double lynches - 0 Why are you voting for a double lynch? On January 23 2013 10:52 AxleGreaser wrote: ##vote: Double Lynch Which means for those that claim dont read the OP that we Lynch two tomorrow. D3 Why are you voting for a double lynch? On January 23 2013 10:53 grush57 wrote: ##Vote: Double Lynch Why are you voting for a double lynch? (Although you didn't in the voting thread) On January 23 2013 10:55 Oatsmaster wrote: ##Vote: Double Lynch Why are you voting for a double lynch? On January 23 2013 16:29 Mocsta wrote: Day2 ##Vote:Double Lynch Why are you voting for a double lynch? (This vote was voting thread only) I didn't snip anything from those posts. That's the entirety of those votes. Within a span of 15 minutes, we had 4 people vote for a double lynch without ever having mentioned the idea beforehand. One of those guys also voted for annul without ever mentioned him beforehand. I'm not as caught up on specific people or mini-threads that are going on to want to comment on that stuff. I thought Gonzaw was town D1. I'll reread him. Bugs I was worried about you for a while, but (VAGUE STATEMENT ALERT) I've found your posts today to be NOT getting as caught up in some of the sideshow and more towards moving in on scumreads of yours, which really says town to me when the thread has gotten kind of bogged down. But despite not being caught up, there's stuff that we're missing because people are zeroing in on a certain read and just going crazy. LOOK AT ALL THOSE NINJAVOTES. The first 4 in a tiny time period. Smells to me like there could be a nervous scum in there who threw his vote in with the rest of the pile. I don't even care that it's just votes for double lynches, I don't like that people are voting for that without seeming to give it any thought at all. Do they have two candidates they want lynched? Do they think they will? Do they think a double lynch will always be useful? Are they certain FT is town, and so want as many lynches in while we've got bonus mayoral votes? We don't know! We have no idea why some of the double lynch votes are coming in. And that's no bueno. | ||
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On January 24 2013 01:20 AxleGreaser wrote: You pointed out the speed of the annul wagon and that you were uncomfortable with it.IIRC correctly i was already voting for it so that I was not just piling on the annul so real fast wagon... A while later I said something specific about the annul wagon The double Lynch seemed self evident. I pointed out when it would happen which is the following day. I had considered at some stage if delaying it one day might better as the reads get better out there However consecutive double Lynches D3 andD4 looked fairly reasonable and it easier to slow down by going D3 D5, if you find you need the time than to speed up. It just looked right? But I couldn't find your actual thoughts on doubly lynching anywhere earlier on in your filter. You asked about it in relation to the mayor's votes, but I didn't see particularly thoughts on whether we should/shouldn't double lynch. I'm less concerned with when it would occur if we voted for it, which anyone can find, and more concerned with WHY people voted for it. Do you think a double lynch is ALWAYS good for town? Why so? If not, why is it good for THIS town in this situation? It's stuff like that. | ||
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On January 24 2013 01:31 Toadesstern wrote: Unless I missed some crumbs or something, I don't see the reason for djo and JX to be the NKs. So I don't know how much we can speculate about the decision making of the mafia faction.yeah that's kind of what I'm getting at as well and the reason I asked palmar about it. I just don't see a reason to sub in bodyguards if mafia comes to the conclusion "well, can't shoot that" unless of course for confusion. Especially with Palmar saying he'll out the BGs shortly before deadline they can't be afraid of not being able to find the bodyguards in time. Though you two guys ending up being bodyguards is rather funny. I think there's SOME value in doing a 1:1 split. All the assumptions during the night were that either mafia would go all in on you guys, with 2 mafia BGs, or would let it go and have two townies. The fact that nobody was really talking about 1:1 means that maybe it's just some plan to force people to think that both are the same alignment, and either keep someone alive for a day or two that might have been in trouble otherwise (oats) or perhaps keep someone alive that has an important role for them (jack? gf? this reasoning seems less likely but I guess it's a possibility, and I don't see either of those two being made gf unless they were incredibly worried about a check on oats as the day went on). | ||
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On January 24 2013 01:37 debears wrote: Austin, we have lurkers in clarity, BK, and fuba. We have a scummy annul. We have a scummy Gonzaw We had questionable nks. What reason isn't there for double lynch? 1) We have to find a way to rid of these damn lurkers 2) I am 95% sure 5touch is town. Toad is looking town to me at this point also (his alignment will be figured out anyways eventually). Use them while we got them. 3) I will very very likely die tonight. I want to help what little I can before then Gonzaw was townie to me earlier, but do need to reread in light of all this suspicion, and also I'm still working off the assumption that either they ran a serious candidate or I had mafia voters on me (IF stutters is town, which I'm still skeptical about). I'm not sure how "questionable nks" factor into whether we double lynch or not. Does that actually tie in to a double lynch for you? What reason is there to not double lynch? Uncertainty that we have two great targets, a discussion about whether we can more easily out hiding mafioso by single lynching or double (I've never actually had a double lynch game, and I wonder whether a double lynch brings scum out of the woodwork more or allows them to hide/comment on secondary targets/Ihavenoideawhatbutit'ssomethingtothinkabout). Perhaps there's no good reason not to, but look at it this way - do you find it completely fine that 4 people within 15 minutes voted double lynch without ever mentioning it before that point? Do you think it is likely that one of those is mafia jumping on the double lynch train to blend in? Whether or not a double lynch is a good idea, i find it REALLY odd that votes came in like that, all ninja, and it's more than worth asking questions about. Also, as to us having a "scummy annul," you had made NO mention of him at all before you voted for him. The rest of us can't know whether you found him scummy for your own reasons, for reasons someone else brought up, whether you're just jumping on a wagon...nothing. You call him scummy, but at the time you voted him you had never mentioned the guy. | ||
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On January 24 2013 02:04 FiveTouch wrote: I'm still under the assumption that both our elected folk are town.Just because I was musing. If Oats is town: There is a roughly 1/10 chance of Oatsmaster being randomly selected as bodyguard. If Oats is mafia: Is there a greater than 1/10 chance that Oatsmaster is put in as bodyguard? I would contend yes. If that's the case, scumoats as a BG gives him a little bit of cover when he was under pressure D1 and would probably be under pressure D2. Mafia risks outing scum BGs ONLY if they want to kill FT/Toad before the bodyguards have been outed as mafia, and they gain some towncred for the mafia BGs so long as those two are alive. I don't see a lot of downside to scum BGs, or a scum BG, in that case. If your bodyguards live, that's a day or two holding onto 2 KP, and maybe you think being a BG gives them a better chance to survive than not-BG. If town still kills them, well, by installing mafia BG(s), you made it easier to shoot the elected folk. Regardless of any other strategy involved, installing mafia BG(s) just makes it easier to get at the officials, whether they out the BGs or not. | ||
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On January 24 2013 02:15 FiveTouch wrote: Yeah, I'm fine with all the BG-stuff being put aside for now. Nobody being a BG makes them scum, but I'm 100% in agreement it doesn't also make you town. Yes, this is how I interpret it to, and you worded quite well. If, for example, mafia consider they can't save Oatsmaster from the lynch because the mayor who just lynched mafia wants him dead, mafia may as well use the opportunity to get rid of a bodyguard for free. Of course this doesn't have to be the case, but it's extremely plausible. I'll do a more substantive read this evening, but a quick check has him on BOTH the mass ninja voting group that I'm worried about AND voting for me as mayor D1 once things shifted towards FT. Granted, FT wanted to lynch him and I was more skeptical, so I don't think that's terribly strong. Need to see what I'd already said about him at the time I voted. But...I had two votes, FT had zero. Toad and FT, my voters, moved off me and over to FT, along with two others. Now 4 FT votes and 0 me votes. Djodref and oatsmaster then voted me, not right after the swap but within like 6 hoursish. Djo flipped town. I'm still pretty convinced there was scum on me. The timing on Oats's me-vote, on a quick check, fits the timing where people suddently move to FT and then I pick up a couple votes. It's just not as strong as with other players because of FT also wanting to lynch oats. The voting just doesn't make me feel good about things. I still disagree about exactly how contradictory his vote was with the lurker stuff, but nothing really looks GOOD for townoats, off the top of my head. | ||
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SLOW DOWN FOR A MOMENT AND QUIT RESPONDING TO EVERYTHING JX D1 you were all over JX. You were making reads based upon how people interacted with JX. You wrote a giant JX casewall - + Show Spoiler + On January 22 2013 09:34 Vivax wrote: Please lynch JX + Show Spoiler + On January 20 2013 17:23 JieXian wrote: *snipped axle coherency comment* I like what gonzaw's doing, actually making reads, most of which I agree with, while running for mayor. I do find Vivax disappearing after that long post running for mayor to be scummy. *question to host and gonzaw vote* *Joking about earlier game* I took a look at what reads he meant. Written by gonz very early, probably not serious: + Show Spoiler + On January 20 2013 14:01 gonzaw wrote: *snip Seems like sandro flipped scum again. Unless you plan on telling us why you are not giving a shit about the mayor candidacy, which you would obviously do as town? Here gonzaw says the same thing JX said later about me. We could interpret this as one of the reads JX was agreeing with. It's also pretty interesting that austin and gonzaw share the same preference for stutters. Should be scrutinized. + Show Spoiler + On January 20 2013 15:24 gonzaw wrote: Just before I go to sleep 2 things caught my attention since I've skimmed the thread: 1)Vivax made his "campaign post" as soon as the game started, and completely disappeared. If he was town actually trying to be mayor...one would have thought he'd keep around trying to either do what town does (hunt scum as early as possible and start discussion) or at the very least answer questions regarding his mayor campaign. 2)Stutters' entrance in the game seemed pretty underwhelming. Even though there's nothing "solid" to go on about most people, he just seemed to ask seemingly "unrelated" questions without trying to participate that much in discussions. I saw him make his first "weak" post (at least in a general sense), then ask some questions, "lurk" in between and ask some other questions. It's not much to go on, I'd want him to take a stance on the whole sandro issue and other candidates perhaps. There are some guys I don't even know, like Fivesomething and Donotsomething, I take it they are smurfs? In summary, it looks like JX trusted gonzaw and his reads at the time. Among those, he preferred to comment on me rather than stutters or sandro. However, in the next post: + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2013 03:08 JieXian wrote: *snip* >_> You do know I can change my vote any time right? I was trying to get Axle to write so that everyone can understand him, telling toad to cool down and supporting my town read and someone I believe to be a strong player. Moreover sandroba, this really is my first Mayor game. And by the way, I did say that I'm agreeing with gonzaw's read on you and you don't seem to be happy about it. Because what you did was like a huge bet on the flop followed by a check without a dangerous card coming on the turn. You're not following up. That makes people suspicious. I played against Vivax as mafia before and boy do we love having him lynch townies with his bad reads. Which was why I'm not voting for Vivax mayor. If Vivax or sandroba were scum it's too stupid a move attacking the weakest player among those who had suspicions against you so I think at least 1 of you should chill. He's implying that both me and sandro were attacking him cause he's weak and suspecting us rather than responding directly to the points sandro made. Telling us, the (scum)reads from gonzaw he agrees with, to "chill" lol. I would rather expect a townie with us as scumreads to become suspicious of both of us here, not to write that we're just omgusing him as his defence. He also says he doesn't want me as mayor, later he will say he would vote for me based on what Toad said. + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2013 03:25 JieXian wrote: Since you know gonzaw what do you think about him so far then? Is Sandroba's bullshitting or is he feeling lazy? Okay. He agrees with gonzaws' reads, so he should find me, sandro and possibly stutters scummy. Yet he asks Toad a question about...gonzaw himself? Why? He knows he agrees with him, why is he asking information about him and not me or stutters? As you see in the first post in this quotechain, Oats asked Toad about sandrobas reluctance to run for mayor. Toad replied that he already wrote it (he wrote that it's troublesome that sandro's not running but later, that he still wants him elected even if he doesn't want it). Now, JX doesn't care about that exchange, he asks Toad if sandro is bullshitting or feeling lazy (which is a strange question to ask about someone you should find concerning). All the while ignoring what has already been written about him. These two are the sort of random stuff scum asks to look useful. Detached from their line of thought/set of reads. More or less like this one in the second post after: + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2013 03:52 JieXian wrote: I already said everything I needed to say about Vivax for now with my earlier post >_> Vivax was sounding like he's saying COME AND GET ME, and as I said, I have no idea what was he thinking. What do you think about debears being quiet and uninvolved like austin says? Vivax mind explaining? He asks Toad another random question after he answered the previous one with this: + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2013 03:32 Toadesstern wrote: Sandroba is weird. Him not running for mayor is weird without being alignment indicative at all. If anything it might be a towntell but I'm believing him when he said it's something he set his mind to pregame so it makes it a null-tell. The few posts he did so far aren't looking like the usual townsandroba though. It's hard to judge based on so little but something's off and I have to figure out wether it's him being mafia or him playing different on purpose. Don't want to say too much about gonzaw right now. As you see, Toad says sandro doesn't look like town sandro. JX just asked him a question about sandro, gets a semi-null read as response, and doesn't give a fuck about it (I assume sandro would be his current suspect if he's asking questions about him and agrees with gonzaw). He also doesn't ask why Toad doesn't want to talk about gonzaw. No. He goes on to ask a question about a debears being talked about by austin.To which Toad replied: + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2013 03:56 Toadesstern wrote: didn't even realize he has posted yet :p Seems like an ignore & observe to me right now. Anything said about him would be talking out of my ass everyone could do no matter of alingment because all there is is "dude's a lurker". No need for that right now. JX -again- never expanded on Toads' answer. What did he ask them for then? + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2013 04:07 JieXian wrote: I'm asking for toad's professional vet opinion about somebody so I can read better And subsequently he doesn't give a fuck about anything he was agreeing about with gonzaw earlier, yet he still wants him for mayor in a later post. Then this here is also pretty scummy, but it's rather subjective: + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2013 03:54 JieXian wrote: Ok it means screaming and going quiet. If you're sleeping it's fine. I didn't not express my belief because I only have a suspicion. And it appears that you're sleeping. Why are you expectnig me to continue pursuing you if you've provided an explaination? Would you say this to someone you think could be scum? JX flipped last night, and he was green. Toad You spent a while being all over Toad - + Show Spoiler + On January 23 2013 23:43 Vivax wrote: Lynch Toad, I'm willing to take full responsibility if it's a mislynch, but just lynch Toad cause it won't be. CTRL-F all of the things he quotes and says about Oats and proceed to lynch him. And many more Gonzaw You were suspicious of Gonzaw and I D1. You seem to have remained suspicious of Gonzaw, and have been voting/accusing him on and off - + Show Spoiler + On January 24 2013 00:35 Vivax wrote: ##Vote Gonzaw On January 24 2013 04:32 Vivax wrote: I'm not really seeing this, but I'm not paying that much attention right now. Those 3 quotes of town/scum games don't tell me much at first glance DAFUQ? Gonzaw you made this too easy for me. Hf in your qt. Mocsta After a short interaction, it looks like you might believe Mocsta is scum - + Show Spoiler + On January 24 2013 01:55 Mocsta wrote: Vivax.. me? My first choice is Oats, then Annul I haven't gone through Gonzaw, sorry for being so slow.. its 1am here, and with now 2 ppl i feel strongly about, i dont see the point in reviewing Gonzaw + Im stil awaiting you commentary on Oats with the shy/confidence lying. On January 24 2013 01:57 Vivax wrote: It's a good post, it convinced me. On January 24 2013 01:57 Vivax wrote: That you could be scum I mean. Yamato Then you move on to Yamato - + Show Spoiler + On January 24 2013 04:10 Vivax wrote: Scum Yamato, british empire mm + Show Spoiler + On January 08 2013 11:41 yamato77 wrote: Excuse me for having other things to do in my life besides prove to town that you are scum. Are you going to do anything today besides defend yourself? Poorly,I might add. I bring up plenty of points besides just the useful discussion point. You cannot deny it looks like straight up post-hoc rationale. You didn't intend to look scummy with your shit but now that you do and you realize people see it that way you're making up bullshit excuses for your shit play. I'm dine with reading your useless posts. It is in town's best interest to see you hang. ##Vote: Mr Cheesecake On January 08 2013 07:48 yamato77 wrote: Is your only response to my suspicion of you "lol"? Let's say I vote you tomorrow with case attached, are you going to just lol that too? Fucking useless. On January 06 2013 19:02 yamato77 wrote: Xatalos what the fuck is that post? How is Shiao voting for a lurker who eventually got replaced scummy? He wants him to be more active, and somehow that's scum motivated? His stances are not weak. He's been putting pressure on me since he made the post, and he wants to do so to you. It's not like he's just saying shit to say it. And then this gem "I guess it's about time to finally cast a vote" Or in other words: "I'm going to put this riiiiight here. Hopefully town doesn't think I'm scummy for this!" That shit is weak, bro. Town Yamato + Show Spoiler + On December 21 2012 06:07 yamato77 wrote: I told you why I'm voting for you and your responses didn't help anything. I have plenty of reason. Other people may have read this and thought the same things. Why is sheeping people with good reads a bad thing anyway? On December 21 2012 06:11 yamato77 wrote: Convince me on Vivax then. If he's so scummy make an updated case with more content. All you've done is post your read and then ask everyone else what they thought of your read. That doesn't feel like scum hunting to me. On December 21 2012 06:19 yamato77 wrote: The differ pence is focus. You keep saying Vivax is scum but you've spent a lot more time discrediting Palmer than pushing your read on Vivax. You are not scum hunting. You are throwing shit at a town player. This is my point. I'm not being hypocritical because my focus is squarely set on you. You're scum, I'm voting for you, and I'm pushing my read and defending the case. You are doing none of these things. Wiggles was really mafia in this game when yamato was talking to him. As you see, two different styles of talking to his scumreads. But check his meta for yourself guys. I know you were also suspicious of me at some point, and probably of others. There are 4 mafia remaining. Only 4. If you honestly think Toad/Gonzaw/Mocsta/Yamato are mafia, that means we have 8000000 inactive/lurky townies. If you honestly think Toad/Gonzaw/Mocsta/Yamato are mafia, that means you think that a lot of the players you think are town are SERIOUSLY wrong about some reads that they all share. It may be the case, but it's very unlikely. I have played with you in a couple games. I will assume you have reasons for doing whatever it is you're trying to do this game, whether scummy or townie reasons. But right now, you are flying off the handle at so many different people that I have more or less stopped reading your posts. Others have stopped reading your posts. If whatever you are trying to do involves "post good analysis that will be taken seriously" then you are shooting yourself in the foot. If not, carry on. I'll just ask, do you honestly believe that the 4 people you have accused within the last...36 hours or so are scum? Do you believe that's a team, or just those people are scummy and you might be wrong about one or two? Do you actually believe we have NO scum in chezinu/annul/stutters/BKE/grush/clarity/fuba (that's roughly my list of inactive or lurky players)? | ||
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On January 24 2013 05:16 gonzaw wrote: I have only skimmed them. austin, now that you are here. What do you think of the "cases" against me from Oats/Five/wbg/debears? You thought I was pretty townie on D1 and posted a bunch of reasons, do the stuff those guys pointed out change your read or not? I may have skipped it in your filter but you barely mention me I believe Gut read on you was town D1. I believe that to be correct. Things that, off the top of my head, I'm looking at tonight about you are - (1) how much some of those cases/suspicions on you are driven by the idea that we had a scum player running for mayor? (2) how much of those cases/suspicions on you are driven by us having a certain number of scum vets? I think those played a role in at least getting things rolling against you, but that was not the entirety of those cases. Your comment that you expected the NKs or whatever was RIDICULOUS in my mind. But I don't think I find it scummy? Just have to go through everything else, and reread your D1. | ||
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On January 24 2013 05:18 Vivax wrote: Look at this post and tell me how the fuck this isn't a scumslip. Find one instance of a situation where a townie could say this. Even if you take away the "as scum", how is being wanting to be elected as mayor a scumtell? I do not interpret that post as a scumslip at all. I agree with the sentiment that it is likely scum had someone running for mayor. I temper that by being almost entirely sure they either had someone(s) running for mayor OR pushed a candidate that wasn't going to lynch scum. It would be a bit ridiculous for them to just let prplhz die and do nothing, unless they thought his last minute change of heart would be enough - where he came back, voted FT, etc. A lot of people agree with that sentiment. It's not scummy to assume that scum tried to do something in the election. What you have done though is taken that expressing that sentiment somehow is a slip and makes you scum. It is not that wanting to be elected as mayor is a scumtell. It is that scum SHOULD have been trying to do SOMETHING with the lynch. A person who (1) did not run for mayor and (2) voted for someone who lynched scum is, at the very least, LESS LIKELY to be scum than someone who ran for mayor, or voted for someone who didn't want to lynch prplhz. yamato didn't run for mayor in the sense that he tried to get any sort of control over the election. yamato spent all of EIGHT minutes voting for himself, before moving his vote to FT. UNLESS the time period of his vote was the time period where FT seemed particularly interested in Oats (as I remember D1, there was a time where he was talking more about Oats than about prplhz), it is unlikely that scumyamato would vote for FiveTouch and run the risk of having prplhz lynched. You are just misinterpreting that "wanting to run be elected as mayor" is NOT a scumtell. I don't think anybody is saying that conclusively. More that scum should have been trying to do SOMETHING to get control over the lynch or get a townie lynched instead of prplhz, outside of the really paranoid idea that FiveTouch came right out the gate bussing hard. | ||
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On January 24 2013 05:27 Vivax wrote: I don't at all consider myself a vet. Bugs, austin... I expected more from you as "vets" really. Most, if not the whole scum team reacted to something really dangerous in the last pages. I think I'll go for some Ice fishing in Greenland. I do think that I'm not doing enough this game, but I can't address that right this minute. For now, I'm trying to make myself useful in finding things that stick out, and perhaps do a mediocre job of trying to get everyone to keep the thread legible and slightly more focused. | ||
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On January 24 2013 05:38 DearestSnot wrote: I'm having doubts about Chezinu. Want to talk about it? Specifically, I can't reconcile why Chezinu would not vote for me or you when he claimed to have an interest in lynching prplhz. That's literally the only reason I have him down as town-he wanted to kill prplhz. However, his last minute vote switch from himself to austin/gonzaw seemed as if he wanted to accomplish something with it. Toad had 4 votes and gonzaw/austin had 3 each. Do you think it's possible that scum were trying to get someone other than Toad into that position? I believe at the time it was known that Toad was a mason, correct? I believe him when he says that he is busy due to school, but unlike last game, he has no reads that I can really recall. His only read on prplhz was based on his rule. I assumed Chezinu was just dicking around. I think I had explicitly stated that I was cool with sheriff Toad, and was ready to swap my vote if needed. Toad was known to be a mason at that point. Got nothing much to base it on, and I may not have been explicit in thread as I was in my own head (which might make scum think they could have shifted things more than they could have, except last-minute), but I read it as Chez just...doing Chez stuff. | ||
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On January 24 2013 05:55 FiveTouch wrote: It contains nothing of importance other than the possible lie, so yes. I must have missed something then, np. | ||
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You sure you're not misinterpreting who he was talking about? | ||
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On January 24 2013 06:12 Vivax wrote: Why don't you start with FT and gonzaw saying that yamato didn't post a candidacy for mayor then? On January 20 2013 13:50 yamato77 wrote: I never said I wasn't running for mayor. If you guys want to elect me for my efforts today, I'm not going to stop you. On January 21 2013 09:34 yamato77 wrote: Put a gun to my head right now and I lynch you**[Vivax]**. Town makes me mayor and I fulfill that promise. That is the entirety of yamato "posting a candidacy for mayor" | ||
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On January 24 2013 06:20 Vivax wrote: Nice, so we've come to define candidacy. If it isn't "make me mayor and I do x", what is it then? Putting any effort into actually running, or asking for votes. Vivax, make me a cat and I will lie in the sun and be lazy. | ||
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We know he's not a pure troll from past games. Therefore, he's trying to do something for some reason. I'd rather it be a productive thing/somehow convince him that this isn't being productive than ignore it. | ||
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On January 24 2013 06:26 FiveTouch wrote: That sounds about right. Although you do put it slightly confusingly. Yeah, sorry. Toad has claimed mason. We have logs from his chats with Sandro, but for today we can only assume he masoned again, although it appears likely that he did. Therefore, he could be a mason, but still could be a JOAT. Yamato claimed that grush masoned him. This makes no sense if grush didn't, so we can assume grush masoned yamato. We do not know if grush has masoned anyone today. Grush could be a mason or a JOAT. 2 people apparently masoned Chezinu yesterday, and have also masoned you today. They have masoned more than once, so they can only be masons. | ||
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On January 24 2013 06:33 DearestSnot wrote: I actually thought about it earlier.grush's mason is definitely the weirdest. He basically just masoned yamato and afked. Why yamato? I don't see why a scum team would give him a mason role and then use it but not really use it, though. It's confusing. If you're mafia and you've got a mason role to use, you're probably going to do so. No sense passing up a role. But maybe you worry, or some portion of your team worries, that a mafia mason will eventually be outed because they'll slip in mason chats, or nobody feels comfortable handling the role of mafia mason. Most people find grush unreadable. Perhaps you give him that role, because you assume people won't catch him slipping in mason chats, and that he can just be grush in mason chats as well as he can be grush in game. I don't like that argument because you're still essentially voiding the power by using it to do more or less nothing. But in terms of "who is the least at risk to get found out because of mason communication," Grush seems like a likely option. | ||
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On January 24 2013 06:40 DearestSnot wrote: right, but the scumteam gets to choose to whom they give the mason role. Why would they give it to grush over someone else? Just so that he has some minor thing to claim in case he gets suspected? Grush is not going to do anything with it regardless of his alignment, perhaps he might do more with it if he were town, who knows. I think it would be dangerous to assume that all the masons are town. It's possible we have only seen a subset of the masons, or that scum chose not to use the mason roles. However, in light of those who have claimed mason and if FT is to be believed then we should really try to get something out of grush. Someone should shoot him, IMO. (although we may not have a vigi and in that case it's just better to simply get him lynched) Oh no, there's no way that all masons are town. Heck, right now I'm scummy on grush just because usually he participates and does whatever, whereas this time he's just not doing anything. But if I, or anyone else, thinks he's scum, that has to be reconciled with the fact that either he's a mason or JOAT OR both grush and yamato are scum (otherwise no reason for yamato to lie). I see no reason for yamato to lie, for them to out two members just...to say that grush can mason? So I'll assume he actually had mason powers (especially given that we had 3 NKs and nobody claimed one, so it's likely that the third KP was a mafia JOAT). If he's scum, he got them for a reason, and that's all I could come up with for why mafia would put him as a mason over someone else. It doesn't lock into place and cause everything to make sense, but ... it's all I can come up with. | ||
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On January 24 2013 06:55 Vivax wrote: And you see him posting such a defence of a now town JX? Posting a defense at an odd time, or defending someone on odd grounds, is not an uncommon thing for scum to get caught for. | ||
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On January 24 2013 06:57 Vivax wrote: I can't remember everyone I've noticed it on, but I know for SURE it was what I noticed about Node in Liquid City. I think there have been other recent times where looking for that, specifically, found mafia (although not 100%). Why would mafia do that at that point? Don't say they do that all the time, it's dogmatic bullshit. Mafia do it because they see an attack on someone they know to be town. Maybe it's a weak attack, maybe strong, whatever. You both inherently know the person is town AND you know that you want some cred throughout the game, so maybe you post a defense. Except you're coming from the land of "I know that person is not scum and is being wrongly attacked" rather than "I don't think that guy is scum/those are legitimate points against him," and so your posts defending a guy may be markedly different than what a townie would post in the same situation. It's just...you're coming from that different angle, driven by a slightly different force, so you may just post a defense that looks out of place. | ||
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On January 24 2013 07:04 FiveTouch wrote: Oh yeah, was directing that at vivax trying to get him to be vivax and not this.Right, austin. And in this case it was attacking the non-existent bandwagon, and saying that we shouldn't 'vilify' him so quickly. As is evidenced by my opening post in the thread, it's what jumped out at me immediately. I didn't like that point enough early on because i disagreed with the contradiction concerning lurkers/his mayoral vote. Disagreeing with that point is what we discussed most heavily, when the odd defense is something I normally jump on, but just got pushed to the background here. I'm on board with scumoats, although I'd like to read over everything that's been said about him today for another time. | ||
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If you have two non-Toad, non-Grush masons in contact with you, and both contacted Chezinu D1, that is something that points towards a townie Chezinu to me. Neither of them outed themselves to the thread, and we know that mafia has a MAX of two people who can ever mason. If those two are mafia masons, chezinu is almost certainly not mafia (barring some ENORMOUS mindfuck play on their part like scumtoad and scumsand COULD have done D1). No reason for BOTH mafia masons, including the guy who only has 1 shot, to mason a scumbuddy. If those two aren't, and only 1 or 0 are mafia, then Chezinu knew the identity of 1-2 town masons D1. Mafia could have killed a mason with basically no repercussions N1, AND given that you have both as strong town reads, it's possible that one of the masons was a strong townie D1. Passing up the chance to kill someone who is a mason AND a decent townread seems farfetched. | ||
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On January 24 2013 08:40 Vivax wrote: Mafia has a max of 1 mason and 1 day of masoning from a JOAT. Mason is a strong role. Can Chezinu the brown try to bring some clarity into the mason matter obfuscated by the corrupt mayor? At MOST, if both were actually in contact with Chezinu, one of the masons is town and one is scum. The other possibility is both town. Unless they're going for a giant mindfuck, we can be CERTAIN that him outing the masons he is in contact with today means outing town masons. That is bad. PARANOIA - + Show Spoiler + It is entirely possible that there are not two masons in contact with FT today and he's just fishing for reactions/thoughts. | ||
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On January 24 2013 08:52 Vivax wrote: If Chezinu doesn't play along and also comment on the alleged lie he made I don't think I can feel confident about what you're thinking now austin. Regardless of whether he lied or not, the following things are absolutely true. Mafia has 0-1 masons Mafia has 0-1 JOATs Mafia JOATs have 1 day of mason power If both players spoke with Chezinu and with FT, then at least one of the players speaking to FT today is a town mason. If both players did NOT speak with Chezinu and with FT, then: (1) one of those players AND Chezinu are scum [two players outed - a mafia JOAT and Chezinu as mafia buddy]; or (2) FT is scum/lying [and either isn't masoned today with 2 people So if you want FT to out the masons, EITHER FT is already scum or lying and can continue to do so OR you out at least one town mason. For...what? Us to have their identities? That'd be nice, but that's not an upside that justifies naming them. | ||
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On January 24 2013 08:58 DearestSnot wrote: stop assuming things about the number of mafia masons, the number is unclear according to the language in the OP. Shhhh...I are read good. DISREGARD ALL THIS CRAP I'VE POSTED IN THE LAST HOUR | ||
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Gonzaw still feels town. The biggest thing that stuck out to me was his return to the thread. Spoilered with commentary: + Show Spoiler + Some votes have built up against Gonzaw. There are people who think that Gonzaw is scummy (vivax, oats, and debears at least) as well as a repeated thought that there's likely scum between annul/Gonzaw based on vet status and scum having a mayor candidate). So the context of this exchange is that Gonzaw is under a bit of in-game pressure, as well as a bit of setup-speculation-related pressure. At 4:07 TL time, Gonzaw posts: On January 24 2013 04:07 gonzaw wrote: Well I'm here, but I'm still catching up on the thread. I am not sure why I'm suddenly discussed as D2 lynch today for no reason (what I managed to skim), but I won't be lynched today if town doesn't derp. Vivax has been going on and on about yamato - + Show Spoiler + On January 24 2013 04:10 Vivax wrote: Scum Yamato, british empire mm + Show Spoiler + On January 08 2013 11:41 yamato77 wrote: Excuse me for having other things to do in my life besides prove to town that you are scum. Are you going to do anything today besides defend yourself? Poorly,I might add. I bring up plenty of points besides just the useful discussion point. You cannot deny it looks like straight up post-hoc rationale. You didn't intend to look scummy with your shit but now that you do and you realize people see it that way you're making up bullshit excuses for your shit play. I'm dine with reading your useless posts. It is in town's best interest to see you hang. ##Vote: Mr Cheesecake On January 08 2013 07:48 yamato77 wrote: Is your only response to my suspicion of you "lol"? Let's say I vote you tomorrow with case attached, are you going to just lol that too? Fucking useless. On January 06 2013 19:02 yamato77 wrote: Xatalos what the fuck is that post? How is Shiao voting for a lurker who eventually got replaced scummy? He wants him to be more active, and somehow that's scum motivated? His stances are not weak. He's been putting pressure on me since he made the post, and he wants to do so to you. It's not like he's just saying shit to say it. And then this gem "I guess it's about time to finally cast a vote" Or in other words: "I'm going to put this riiiiight here. Hopefully town doesn't think I'm scummy for this!" That shit is weak, bro. Town Yamato + Show Spoiler + On December 21 2012 06:07 yamato77 wrote: I told you why I'm voting for you and your responses didn't help anything. I have plenty of reason. Other people may have read this and thought the same things. Why is sheeping people with good reads a bad thing anyway? On December 21 2012 06:11 yamato77 wrote: Convince me on Vivax then. If he's so scummy make an updated case with more content. All you've done is post your read and then ask everyone else what they thought of your read. That doesn't feel like scum hunting to me. On December 21 2012 06:19 yamato77 wrote: The differ pence is focus. You keep saying Vivax is scum but you've spent a lot more time discrediting Palmer than pushing your read on Vivax. You are not scum hunting. You are throwing shit at a town player. This is my point. I'm not being hypocritical because my focus is squarely set on you. You're scum, I'm voting for you, and I'm pushing my read and defending the case. You are doing none of these things. Wiggles was really mafia in this game when yamato was talking to him. As you see, two different styles of talking to his scumreads. But check his meta for yourself guys. On January 24 2013 04:18 Vivax wrote: Hey gonzaw, what do you think about my current scumreads? On January 24 2013 04:23 Vivax wrote: Doesn't need that much time to read the little bit I wrote about yamato right? Why don't you do a quickie on that? While Vivax is questioning him, Gonzaw drops his first real return post at 4:20 TL time, a response to Oats - + Show Spoiler + On January 24 2013 04:20 gonzaw wrote: I asked those questions to get info from people, which they did (I think, I don't remember much), and to get a better read on Stutters/Clarity if people had anything valuable to add. Why did you expect me to "question" Vivax? Why Vivax out of everybody? I don't see how this is relevant at all. It obviously doesn't work that way, if I was mayor I could lynch whoever the fuck I want, whether people "agree" with it or not. If I was just "testing the waters" to "gain support", then it doesn't work that way either. You don't elect a mayor just because he's pressuring someone you agree is pressuring. And whether this works this way or not, how do you suddenly conclude this is what I did as, in your mind, scum mayor? This is all confirmation bias from your part, "ah, if gonzaw was a scum mayor, then he could have been 'testing the waters' with what he was posting!". Wow, this misses the point so much it hurts. Oats, you out of nowhere said "There is mafia in the mayor candidates!", randomly chose me, and started using heavy confirmation bias. The "bad" thing is your case, I never called you bad. The point is that it's hard as shit for me to think you believe the shit you are saying. Your "case" on me comes out of nowhere, has basically no valid point at all, yet it's somehow enough for you to instantly believe I'm scum. There's no thought process of yours stating why you had this change of stance on me (i.e why you suddenly think I'm suspicious as fuck), and had basically no reasoning at all behind it. You just hopped on someone's ass to ride along and tunnel, without seemingly caring if he's actually scum or not. There was always the chance you were just "bad" with your initial case, but it doesn't seem to be the case since you are not following up on it at all, and are just using it as an excuse to jump on my ass, and apparently on the bandwagon that can be formed on me. Yeah, I can't see you doing that as town at all Oats. Specially not after the shit JingleHell pulled on me on Aperture 2; I won't fall for that again. As far as your "meta" goes, I don't really like looking at lots of past games unless I'm not actually sure about someone's else alignment; but briefly skimming what other's posted about your previous town/scum games is even more incriminating in my mind. ##Vote: OatsMaster Oat's attacks on me can't come from a townie, period. I'd prefer lynching him today, and maybe leaving annul for a vig. Hopefully there was a vig last night and he decided to hold his shot. If not we can kill him with the double-lynch tomorrow, which (in my mind) is there for that reason. Just in case some people still want to lynch me, I'll address the things said against me in a few minutes. What really got me was that, as he's returning to thread and responding to SOME of the stuff that popped up on him, at least oats's suspicions, Gonzaw also responds to Vivax's pestering: On January 24 2013 04:21 gonzaw wrote: Haven't read the whole read to check what they are, and don't have much time right now. When I finish reading the thread and responding to people I'll check them out. On January 24 2013 04:29 gonzaw wrote: I don't think yamato is scum, because he is heavily involved in discussions, was pretty active on D1, yet didn't seem to try and push a scum agenda (for instance get elected as scum mayor, or try to get a scum mayor elected) I'm not really seeing this, but I'm not paying that much attention right now. Those 3 quotes of town/scum games don't tell me much at first glance On January 24 2013 04:38 gonzaw wrote: Three responses, actually reading Vivax's stuff and responding, while we can assume writing this bit that was posted at 4:43 TL time, a response to the concerns of FiveTouch, Bugs, and Toad: + Show Spoiler +Are you serious? If he was scum, he'd try to get elected as scum mayor, specially since he did try to get elected at one point in time, based on his activity and how he was playing at the time Holy shit Vivax On January 24 2013 04:43 gonzaw wrote: What do you mean by "should know better"? prplhz obviously wasn't a "bad lynch" by D1 by any standards. I just felt it was mostly a shot in the dark, he could flip scum or town. Thus I didn't feel he would be a good lynch on D1 ahead of other people I felt WAY more confident on, like Oats, and some people that I was not that sure (because their lack of activity basically) but still felt more confident on, like Stutters, and maybe Clarity. Well, I don't really know how you would take that, but it's true. I didn't push a mayor candidacy on me on pre-game, and that obviously happened before I got my role PM. At the time I was thinking "I want to be mayor so bad....but if I flip scum I may regret going all in about a mayor candidacy on pre-game, it basically forces me to run for mayor as scum, no matter what" I dunno if I would have run as mayor as scum, maybe I would. It would heavily depend on what team I was in (for instance I dont' think I'd seriously run as mayor if my scumteam was you+wbg+sandro for instance). That could be WIFOM and I have no way of saying if I would or not....so yeah I don't think we should really dwell on that to be honest. I always get the "gonzaw seems too dumb to be town" thing often, but I seriously can't see what I'm doing "dumb" this game (in contrast to, for instance, my derps in Can't Believe). I think you are rushing this too much. You don't even seem to believe I'm scum with this. I take it it's the whole night kill issue and my comments, which I can easily explain to avoid misunderstandings. If I seem "neutral" at times (which I don't really see, maybe with some players like annul/BKE/lurkers/etc last night), then...well I dunno. If I am indeed at points, it may be because this is a big game and it's harder for me to keep up than minis, and I prefer to "waste my time" being in the thread and seeing/being part of interactions/discussions. I'm too lazy at times to reread filters in big games and make "in-depth" analysis My mayoral campaing was that I'd try to establish my innocent and hunt scum, like I do every time I'm town. Yes, I always try to be transparent when town as well. Don't know why you don't feel like I was, I think I was. My lynch candidate, or rather "who I wanted Five to lynch", was Oats on D1 basically. At that point I was still not 100% sure so I wouldn't have mind a lynch on Stutters, or maybe Clarity, at least at one point in time. After I basically knew I wasn't the mayor any more, I didn't try to desperately "find a lynch candidate now!", and instead try to find who I'd want Five to lynch, or ultimately (if something unexpected happened, like someone else becoming mayor, or maybe even me) who I'd be okay with the elected guy lynching. Well I obviously didn't. Stop WIFOMing yourself like this Toad. After you started basically yelling at medics who to protect (me/austin/sandro/wbg), I had a feeling I wouldn't die at night, which is why I wasn't surprised about the night kills (again, except the sandro one, which did seem like scum took a risk at shooting). IF Gonzaw was mafia, I would expect him to be crafting his responses to suspicion, checking if anyone was active in QT to give him a rundown of exactly what to respond to in the thread. And he DOES make responses. But interwoven with his Oats response and his FT/Bugs/Toad response is this dialogue with Vivax. And that, gut read, is out of place for scum in this situation. Return to thread, see you've picked up votes, see you've got suspicion from a NUMBER of players, for both your play and balance reasons, and...while responding to that pressure you keep tossing comments offhand at Vivax? Just doesn't fit my mental picture of what scum is focused on there. tl;didn'tclickspoiler - When Gonzaw returned to the thread, he was under pressure. Vivax, oats, debears, FT, Bugs, Toad had all either voted him, found him scummy, noted that he might be scum for balance reasons. In the middle of his responses to some of those posts, he reads some stuff Vivax wants him to read, comments on it, and has a back and forth with Vivax. I do not think that fits scum's return to thread when ... what, 1/3 the game? is putting some kind of pressure on him. That's REMARKABLE cool at that point to be addressing the suspicions while playing the Vivax game. His actions in that little window of time look townie to me. I get that he doesn't look awesome for some of his prplhz comments, but I had some of the same thoughts, as did sandro, so I can't really find that scummy. I found most of his other D1 stuff townie, as noted before. The post about the NKs I just don't understand at all. It looks really weird, but not in a scummy way. Like, there's just no reason for him to say that or do anything about that. I can't grasp a scum motivation for saying that stuff, I don't understand why scum would do it offhand, I just...it makes no sense. As town or scum. So for now I'm disregarding that, and entirely unsure why Gonzaw could see those as the NK targets. His post about maybe 1 bodyguard being scum 1 town is the scummiest thing I found from a reread. That's a weird assumption to make in a world full of 2-0 and 0-2 assumptions. He explained in a bit oddly, and kind of stumbled when questioned on it. For now, I'm just kind of flagging that set of posts, but the rest of his filter is town to me. That's Part 1 of looking at Gonzaw's posts and people posting about Gonzaw, just what I get about Gonzaw himself. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
(1) debears had a lot of interaction with Gonzaw at the start of today. Questions and posts on him. + Show Spoiler + On January 23 2013 10:41 debears wrote: Direct question, shortly after Gonzaw says he saw the NKs comingWait, hold on, you saw both djo and jiexian being nked by scum over you and Austin?????? On January 23 2013 11:37 debears wrote: Questioning other players about Gonzaw's meta (He repeats the question to Bugs after Bugs says he could go for a Gonzaw lynch)5touch How does town Gonzaw usually go after scumreads? Does he try to convince others that the person is scum? Or does he try to convince the person that they are scum? On January 23 2013 15:17 debears wrote: Ok. WBG I'll give you something to look at for Gonzaw. I htink the bottom stuff in red is the most pertaining to why I believe he is scum What is mafia trying to accomplish d1 with election 1) elect one of their own as mayor/sheriff 2) Trying to elect mayor who will get the first lynch wrong 3) Have someone on the correct mayor for town cred Gonzaw- - slight scum Up for election - didn't push it hard Didn't want to budge too fast on 5touch as mayor -----> didn't seem to care for trying to get mayor over 5 No comment on prplhz----> Don't agree with prplhz lynch Heavy pressure on sandro early Wanted to lynch stutters and Oats and Clarity -spread out btw those 4. Big discrepancy in treatment btw prplhz and sandro treatment for being inactive d1 Votes himself Really wanted to convince 5touch to lynch Oats over prplhz when realized he won't be mayor http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17590733 Thought stutters was scum and should be lynched, yet needs to explain himself to stutters so in depth? With a tone of treating Oats as town? Look at post before "stutters should be lynched" http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17599229 Does it again. Then names Oats first in the scum team Tries to convince Oats that Oats is scum. Not really trying to convince others and show scum motivation Went and looked at filter, linked to a few posts, but based on his summary of Gonzaw's filter it does look like he read through things. (Note - debears follows the above post with a post noting that "stutters" in red should be replaced by "oats"). On January 24 2013 01:11 debears wrote: Notes that Vivax has changed stances on GonzawVivax, in one night you do a complete 180 on two reads for no reason whatsoever + Show Spoiler + On January 22 2013 01:23 Vivax wrote: I don't care if the elected roles are smurf, they have to be vets, and they have to be trustworthy. Gonzaw isn't trustworthy for shoveling shit at me for being absent after my candidacy like JX did + trying to be overly politically correct to everyone. austin isn't trustworthy for using artificial reasons to defend JX and picking stutters as lynch candidate. Austin used the argument: "Slight paranoia is townie" cause he wrote something about a Toad jester. Austin clearly didn't give a shit about JXs alignment from the start. That's my interpretation. FT already pointed out that this was a mistake. Seriously, stay the fuck away from gonzaw and austin. I'd rather have Chezinu mayor than these two. On January 21 2013 09:03 Vivax wrote: ## Vote Sandroba If he's town, he won't be killed and be of great use. If he's scum, he won't be able to hide it for long in that position. Don't choose based on some mood. Even if sandro doesn't want it, a good town should want him in that position. I don't like austin, I don't like gonzaw. Clarity didn't post his reads and he's usually not the guy who wants to take the lead. Voting Chezinu, are you fucking kidding me?Oatsmaster? Nah. On January 22 2013 01:55 Vivax wrote: FT for mayor, that's out of discussion. Screw austin and gonzaw, they have to stay in put positions. Just make me his second hand and this town is set for victory. On January 22 2013 06:46 Vivax wrote: You all (debears, mkfuba, austin) must be really super-convinced that austin and JX are town if you flak me like that for a tentative scum read. What exactly do you want me to do? Isn't it electing austin? To lynch whom? Stutters for playing like I know him from D1? No thanks. Look, I find people suspicious who shovelled shit at me for my absence. I find people super suspicious who instead of posting their reasoning about it (like gonzaw did=semi-admitting that it wasn't a good point and in the end null cause I was sleeping) write that they had a reason to do so cause of some outer reason that has nothing to do with their thinking (the US tag), which then turns out to be wrong. When called out for it, they don't answer. Tell me, wouldn't you suspect scum behind it? You seem to be really convinced that he is town. On January 23 2013 20:33 Vivax wrote: Use something in your argumentation to say that you think gonzaw and annul are scum besides this mayor thing please. You say: "I think one and only one is scum among the mayor candidates, gonzaw and annul are probably scum cause everyone else I have a town read on." On January 23 2013 23:07 Vivax wrote: [22.01.2013 19:17:49] Erik: yeah I agree [22.01.2013 19:17:56] Erik: I'd like annul lynch the most [22.01.2013 19:18:04] Erik: and a bunch oats has done recently looks townisch [22.01.2013 19:18:07] Erik: *townish [22.01.2013 19:18:18] Erik: I really don't see him pushing gonzaw out of all the people if he's mafia Strange things to say considering your latest insecurity about who to lynch first between annul and gonzaw when asked. Care to tell us why Oats is town for pushing gonzaw? [22.01.2013 19:28:09] Erik: the way it's worded I can't jail before n2... [22.01.2013 19:28:11] Erik: "You are able to PM me during the day with a player to be incarcerated that night." [22.01.2013 19:28:27] Erik: if I have to pm him during the day I can't pm him before d2 for the n2 protections What did BC respond to this? Although he probably let Toad jail nonetheless. So you thought Gonzaw was scum all day 1 and suddenly change your viewpoint and think he's town for no reason? And you suddenly get on everyone's case about voting gonzaw? + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2013 22:20 Vivax wrote: @ Yamato Dude, if you are town (which I kinda doubt cause you promised self-improvement last time I saw you somewhere else): You have 4 pages of filter of which a lot of posts are aggressive, low content spam. You aren't achieving anything but calling candidates bad without pushing your own preferences. Your posts aren't consolidated, and you disregard the opinions of 4 vets. In light of your overconfidence you are aware of you should actually use them properly. @ debears Me and Toad aren't the scum you're looking for. Yamato might be but it's still early. Djo is..an interesting choice. I like your play so far. Don't underestimate me in this game though, I'm asking you to vote me into a seat. @ gonzaw There are questions directed at you in my filter that you still have to answer. I don't care if you think I'm town, I'm not voting for you. And I know you won't be voting for me. @ Toad I really appreciate your contributions in the latest pages that appeared since I posted last. Knowing that you support me and FT, I can trust into you being working for town. I would appreciate however if you didn't refer to me as stupid or idiot. You never know who's sitting behind the keyboard, and you don't take into account how fast I can improve. I think my strategies and reads have improved a lot lately. I don't have as much experience as others in this forum, don't draw conclusions about my intelligence or ability to learn then. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ Regarding the discussion about my candidacy post: It was a good way to waste time in the last pages. If you want to know, I started writing that post after I got my role pm. But I can't prove it and it doesn't even matter. Look at my other play. How I push my candidacy doesn't matter either. You know I want to be elected, and when I don't constantly spam that it doesn't mean I don't want it any more. I pressured JX, Djo, gonzaw and yamato into giving out information in a way that breaks their usual posting style. Specific information. I managed to get yamato very worked up to the point where he started replying in a subjectively quite scummy way. Same goes for JX who replied to me with rather big delays, compared to the content he posted in that long time he needed to make the posts. I am working pro-information, and I'm not sticking endlessly to the same target. I'm active, and I post transparently. Although I'm not giving you out all my reads, yet. You will absolutely not regret me being elected. On January 21 2013 22:20 Vivax wrote: @ Yamato Dude, if you are town (which I kinda doubt cause you promised self-improvement last time I saw you somewhere else): You have 4 pages of filter of which a lot of posts are aggressive, low content spam. You aren't achieving anything but calling candidates bad without pushing your own preferences. Your posts aren't consolidated, and you disregard the opinions of 4 vets. In light of your overconfidence you are aware of you should actually use them properly. @ debears Me and Toad aren't the scum you're looking for. Yamato might be but it's still early. Djo is..an interesting choice. I like your play so far. Don't underestimate me in this game though, I'm asking you to vote me into a seat. @ gonzaw There are questions directed at you in my filter that you still have to answer. I don't care if you think I'm town, I'm not voting for you. And I know you won't be voting for me. @ Toad I really appreciate your contributions in the latest pages that appeared since I posted last. Knowing that you support me and FT, I can trust into you being working for town. I would appreciate however if you didn't refer to me as stupid or idiot. You never know who's sitting behind the keyboard, and you don't take into account how fast I can improve. I think my strategies and reads have improved a lot lately. I don't have as much experience as others in this forum, don't draw conclusions about my intelligence or ability to learn then. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ Regarding the discussion about my candidacy post: It was a good way to waste time in the last pages. If you want to know, I started writing that post after I got my role pm. But I can't prove it and it doesn't even matter. Look at my other play. How I push my candidacy doesn't matter either. You know I want to be elected, and when I don't constantly spam that it doesn't mean I don't want it any more. I pressured JX, Djo, gonzaw and yamato into giving out information in a way that breaks their usual posting style. Specific information. I managed to get yamato very worked up to the point where he started replying in a subjectively quite scummy way. Same goes for JX who replied to me with rather big delays, compared to the content he posted in that long time he needed to make the posts. I am working pro-information, and I'm not sticking endlessly to the same target. I'm active, and I post transparently. Although I'm not giving you out all my reads, yet. You will absolutely not regret me being elected. On January 21 2013 23:06 Vivax wrote: @ Yamato Then I assume, since me and Toad are probably not going to get lynched today, that you will vote for the candidate that lynches Djo? @ Oatsmaster Would you support me/Toad/Sandro as elected role? If FT stops wanting to lynch you, will you support him? ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ After looking at his meta, I support a prplhz lynch as well. I especially looked at his town meta: Looney lynching - town → More outspoken, more active, doesn't act as much as like he's not giving fuck as he does in this game. Rockband Mini - town → Shares reads very early, opposes random lynching (here he asks for Chez lynch immediately). Doesn't act like he doesn't give a fuck (as here). Significantly becomes more active when his mislynch is gaining steam. He posts a lot with not much time difference between the posts. On January 22 2013 06:22 Vivax wrote: Toad, I think it's of vital importance that austin doesn't get a seat. If there is no extra supporter to elect you Chezinu is my next favourite over austin. On January 22 2013 07:00 Vivax wrote: Chez you made me laugh a good portion. I'm voting Toad if we can manage to get him into that position though. Sorry bro . On January 22 2013 10:01 Vivax wrote: GET TOAD ELECTED FFS Anyway, there are further posts after that concerning Gonzaw, questioning Gonzaw, etc. But basically, just searching for stuff related to Gonzaw turned up a LOT of debears stuff today. There's a chance that he was inactive most of D1, feels all scumguilty, and latches on to this subject to pursue and look active in D2. But it looks like legitimate activity, legitimate interest in a topic. He doesn't just say "Gonzaw scummy," he posts some reasoning and a case-ish thing. He doesn't just do that, he's also asking vets for how Gonzaw plays, and later asks Gonzaw for examples of specific play. It looks very much like a legitimate suspicion, and one that isn't being pushed for show. I find debears townier based on that whole set of posts. It looks like he's legitimately trying to figure out Gonzaw, not just looking active as mafia and not ... building a case in the way that mafia would? (2) THIS POST. I have not done a full reread of Mocsta. But this post without any context looked BAD to me. In the middle of all the Gonzaw stuff, this post just stuck out. Context: Vivax had just posted - + Show Spoiler + On January 23 2013 22:45 Vivax wrote: @ Mocsta You asked me a question, why so disinterested now? What's your take on Toad, gonzaw, yamato and annul? You think I'm town? On January 23 2013 23:12 Mocsta wrote: I find it mildly odd that a small question from Vivax prompts such an enormous response, but whatever. I just...don't like the actual reads as they're presented - + Show Spoiler +Hi Vivax. Not disinterested, just IRL stuff.. these are the thoughts in my head without reading filters.. take it as you want.. im more a gut feeling player anyways (which is prob why my reads are so fucked) Toad: Hes probably town for me; when he speaks freely/quickly I find him a bit erratic but its prob more to do with frustration. But every once in a while he says something that just makes me want to cast doubt. Regardless, if I was to judge his actions overall, off a whim, I think town motives. Gonzaw: I was about to start reading his filter, but since you asked, my impressions as of now are: made a good impression on me at first, and was one of the only vets responding to me.. as FT came about, he has really faded. AND IIRC he hasnt followed up on his promises (reads etc). My other issue with Gonzaw is association with prplhz... b4 prplhz had heat on him, Gonzaw was one of the ppl he was soft "buddying" to. ATM null, need to confirm if the (lack of) follow ups are correct. Yamato: hes got a pretty hot-head.. I *Assume* as scum would be hard for him to control the emotion.. so far he has swapped gears quite a lot; has tried to contribute here and there; but i dont think he ever followed up on u.. perhaps due to Toads insistence.. i would say leaning town. Annul: I haven't paid attention to him Day1, just the interplay between him and bugs today.. even with bugs persistence, i thought his ragequit was over the top; have to read the filter, but off that ragequit i would say leaning scum. Vivax: No fucking idea.. somethings you do just put so much public attention in my head only a VT would do that.. but then, some of the your actions just dont agree with me so I think scum.. but thats a gut feeling and prob just means i don't (personally) like your style.. one thing i learnt was, if a guy is really pissing you off, hes prob town... so based on that heuristic, i will say town Grush: Even though you didnt ask, and i dont want to sound like im tunneling. I really dont like whats hes doing. Hes ignored my pressure (what ever) but coming in with the yamato mason stuff was just foreplay..im still waiting for the good stuff.. I cant even see a reason to have masoned yamato anyways, the whole thing is as odd as the NKs .. i mean.. djo was making some sense at the end.. but fuckn JX? Im going to read Annul/Gonzaw filter now, and hopefully dont fall asleep. Toad is probably town, because of generic townie heuristic "speaks freely/quickly." But sometimes he says things that "make [mocsta] want to case doubt. Actions overall, "off a whim," town motives. Toad is generic townie words, but sometimes there are specifics that make mocsta find him scummy, but "overall" toad is town. I don't get that. I like animals, but not if they have wings and make honey, but overall I like bees because they are animals. It's not that dumb, not that specific, but those statements seem similar to me, it (teehee) bugs me. Gonzaw. Off the top of mocsta's head, Gonzaw made a good impression, but then faded, hasn't followed up on promises, THEN bolded bit on a connection with prplhz. "ATM null." Gonzaw made a good impression, but then faded and didn't follow up on promises, and also has a weird connection with a dude who flipped scum --> NULL. Again, I don't get where the ultimate conclusion comes from, given those other comments setting it up. Yamato. Swapped gears a lot, tried to contribute, but didn't follow up on Vivax about something. "leaning town." Alright, perfectly fine with that conclusion. Annul. Didn't pay attention to annul D1. Just looked at the annul/bugs stuff today. Ragequit over the top and scummy. No real problem with those comments, but they're super generic. Then BONUS reads on Vivax and Grush. But the read on Vivax is ... a repeat of a lot of comments on Vivax, he's all over the place and doing a bunch of nonsense and pissing people off, so probably town. Grush is...LOOK AT THAT GRUSH READ. Don't like what he's doing, ignoring mocsta's pressure. Then random comment about the NKs... The comments on people are are actually REALLY at issue -- Toad, Gonzaw, to a lesser extent Annul, just feel weak. Those are the ones that are especially empty or confusing. The yamato comments make sense, the vivax comments make sense, but those are the players that are less important to this game overall at that point. Gonzaw and Annul have been lynch options today. Toad is sheriff, mason, has been active today and generally putting a bunch of stuff into thread. But those are the players on whom the reads are the weakest. Then there's the "Oh yeah, I'm so helpful and including an extra read on Grush!" that tails off into commentary on the NKs as part of the grush-read...which I don't understand at all. The post just sticks out as being oddly responsive to Vivax + has weird reads on the people that have been visible enough to give clear reads + has clear reads on the other folks. I need to read the rest of his stuff, because maybe it's just an odd post, but...it stuck out. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 24 2013 10:52 DearestSnot wrote: I don't know that I like this argument when I feel like we're "ahead." For some reason I'm just hesitant to get behind this 100%.ok, here's the thing. I hesitated earlier to use this argument, but I think it's strong. First suppose Oats is scum. Because he's a BG, we know that if he's alive and FT or Toad die then Oats is outted. Thus at any point in the game we can safely lynch Oats if FT or Toad die. We only have a problem if we lynch a multitude of townies while FT and Toad survive and get into a multiple scum lylo situation. I don't see that as being very likely. If Oats is scum, mafia have to sacrifice one of their own in order to kill Toad or FT. As long as FT/Toad are alive we have a massive advantage. We have a jailer who can stop mafia KP in two different ways and a triple voter who is almost certainly town. If Oats is town, and we lynch him, then tonight debears and FT or Toad will be dead, almost certainly. We basically simply shoot ourselves in the foot for no gain. Even if Oats is mafia, we don't gain much by lynching him. He's a BG, if scum want to win the game in lylo they have to at some point out Oats. They can't feasibly win at lylo with FT alive because FT has 3 votes. So, either Oats is mafia and we force mafia to out him in order to kill two of our best townies, or Oats is town and we leave FT and Toad protected until oats/debears get shot. The mafia team in either position is basically fucked as long as we can catch the remaining members. So why focus on Oats? I don't see the rationale behind this right now. There's some merit to not rolling the dice and running the risk of mislynching Oats, but...if people feel best with an oats lynch, he should be the lynch. We lynched scum D1, haven't lost any power roles, had some odd NKs that left some strong players alive...town is ahead this game (barring some real nice scum play from FT or toad). I don't think it's worth taking the safest route possible so long as we're reasonably sure on oats. Mafia chose roles. Mafia chose bodyguards IF they installed any bodyguards. To some extent, it would make sense to put the stronger-roled folk in the role of bodyguard (this is...muddy with the argument that he'd get made a bodyguard in order to buy him a turn/couple turns to live, they kind of run against each other). In either case though, mafia wanted to take scumoats and make him a bg to help him live. Mafia wants that. I don't want what mafia wants. Like...it's not "focus on oats" as a rationale. It's "find scum" and oats just happens to look scummy. I'd rather lynch a scummy dude than try to get fancy when we're in a good spot. | ||
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But the extra votes are only good if they're on scum. I haven't seen someone play a game in which they ONLY voted scum, I don't think. So we can expect that, at some points, the extra mayoral votes won't harm scum, and might HELP them if FT is just wrong about a certain read. If FT is fallible, the mayoral votes have to get discounted somewhat. They're good, but I don't feel like we have to adjust our overall play in order to preserve them 100%. | ||
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On January 24 2013 12:15 Mocsta wrote: I'm targeting you with that post just because it stuck out. Maybe it shouldn't have, maybe I can't quite put my finger on it, but just for some reason I ended up pulling that post aside along with the other stuff I found.Austin @ http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=393344¤tpage=97#1922 I think your overcomplicating things, the posts read as I said. Vivax was pushing me for commentary (IIRC multiple times) so I gave him my impressions off-the-cuff. To you: Gonzaw, Annul and Toad may have been central to the thread and been your focus. But they weren’t to me. My focus has been mainly on Oats/Grush, and just keeping up with the thread in general. I actually thought what I said about Vivax was solid.. i.e. usually if a guy is repeatedly pissing you off he is town.. scum generally cant afford to agitate people that much, survival is easier if you are forgotten. Im not sure why you seem to disagree with this? As for your other comments, Toad Don’t see how you are misinterpreting this? I find his fast-posting style coupled with direction he giving to be indicative of town. Everyone once in a while he says something that just makes me facepalm. So I am leaning town instead of probably town.. thought this was clear? Gonzaw Again. Don’t see how you are misinterpreting? I like his flow when he writes. Gives me a good feeling without any analysis. I said NULL, because I need to do an analysis of the actions to confirm motivations. Gut feeling isn’t enough. Your welcome to read my filter and ask me more questions, but I really think your over-reading this specific post. I even stated at the start of it that it would be off the cuff? And I feel like your targeting me with this post because my priority filter reads do not align with yours. I don’t think that is indicative of alignment, its indicative of different experiences and thought processes. I figured I'd vocalize what I was thinking at the time. This response reads entirely reasonable, and I noted that I didn't look you over completely, just saw that post. I'll check your filter tomorrow and ask anything, and you're more than welcome to poke around in mine . | ||
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On January 24 2013 12:34 DearestSnot wrote: I'll also get back to this tomorrow? I'm just "tomorrow guy" this game. no, Austin is not agreeing and that's the problem. I am repeating it because I am receiving lukewarm feedback and I think this is really fucking important. I think we're making a huge mistake if we lynch Oats and if you guys don't understand that, then there's a strong chance today will be a complete wash IMO. If Oats is indeed scum and we lynch him then whatever, I will eat my words and I will accept that I am stupid dumb retarded, whatever. However I think there are both better lynches today and that most players aren't thinking enough about this lynch. Also I didn't bother responding to recent questions about Oats because #1. I've already stated multiple times why I think he is town. The points raised by other players on him are not new and not worth responding to, they'll incite the same feedback I got when I first raised my concerns. #2 Quite frankly you can judge my probable response simply by how I've been talking about him this entire time and you don't need to ask me about him in the first place. I'd much rather talk about why we should lynch Chez or BKE, but gasp, I'm not getting feedback on Chez either! That's actually the bigger tragedy IMO. I wanted talk about Chez and I wanted to put this out there to show why I think lynching Oats is such a mistake. I have found in the past that if you are not loud about these types of things (i.e. the Prom lynch in dessert or the prplhz lynch yesterday) then people will not follow or listen to you. That's actually a lesson I learned as scum but never really truly applied as town because I'm not confident enough as town/I think it's borderline spammy to do, but I actually do think it is effective in forcing people to talk about things they would normally not talk about. I can understand you harping on this, and you've got legitimate points. Maybe I'm overly focused on the "If oats is scum" side of things and you're focused on the "If oats is town" side of things? | ||
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D1, I had votes on me from FiveTouch and Toad. Then there's a span of a little more than an hour where: (1) they unvote me; (2) they both vote FiveTouch; and (3) two more players (Dearest and debears) vote FiveTouch. Now, I don't know Stutters' alignment for certain. But I thought he was scum and that read hasn't change, so the next bit is...less strong than I would like. But in my head, mafia would want to at least put SOME effort into saving prplhz from lynch. Since he seemed to have 0 interest in saving himself, making himself look good, that necessarily means that mafia had to try and elect a candidate that wasn't going to kill him. After FiveTouch got those votes, the next two sizeable movements I see are more people joining onto FiveTouch (Vivax, JX, mkfuba, and then later, yamato) and people voting me (Djodref, Oats, austinmcc, sandroba). Toad also begins to pick up votes (Vivax, toad, stutters). Maybe mafia didn't try anything. Maybe stutters is mafia and I wasn't a good candidate to get pushed, I don't KNOW. But of the votes that were on me, 2 flipped green and I'm green, so you're the only one on me who can be mafia. That doesn't MAKE you mafia. But your vote on me: On January 22 2013 01:25 Oatsmaster wrote: doesn't help you. I'm still less interested in the contradiction bit than FT was. But:Ok with Austin's reappearance, I am inclined to vote for him as mayor. Why? Because I feel that he has put in more effort into finding scum than 5touch and that he is willing to be transparent and all the things various people have said that the mayor be. He also stood up to lurky sandro early about JX when he couldve ignored the incident. That is one of the reasons I have a town tell on him. I also agree with his lynch target now that I read his reasoning and Stutter's filter. Stutter's posted 4 posts and just disappeared, I feel that as a town player, his start wouldve been continued through the thread but it was not to be which makes me think that he is putting up a front of activity at the start to allay all suspicions then lurking his way through the rest of the game. Vote: Austinmcc (1) You had never mentioned me before you voted me for mayor (2) You said I was "willing to be transparent," which I think everyone said and is somewhat meaningless (3) The stutters stuff is...mostly fine. But you do note that you think Stutters made four posts and disappeared to "put up a front of activity" and "allay all suspicions." There's a disconnect there, to me, between someone making a whopping four posts and the conclusion that they were made to put up a front of activity. Now you're both the only person voting me who might have been scum AND your reasons for voting me are meh at best. I also still find the mass double lynch voting to be weird. Nobody mentioned it, nobody explained their votes, just pew pew pew double lynch. Axle was first, then you and grush voted within 3 minutes of his vote. It's a minor thing, but we have no idea why you placed that vote when you did, and it can be interepreted as "Oh, looks like they're gonna double lynch, better toss my vote in there so I don't look weird!" In light of everything that has been mentioned, and those 2 things where your name appears in two sets of names that I think scum is within...gotta conclude that you're probably scum. + Show Spoiler + On January 24 2013 12:20 DearestSnot wrote: This is wrong. I'm not attempting to have something both ways. FT is fallible and we can't be certain that town will always have a triple vote placed on scum. That doesn't mean that the Oats read is wrong. Those things are entirely separate, because "FT says so" isn't the reason Oats is scum.what the fuck? you can't have it both ways! If FT is fallible then you have to doubt his Oats read just like you doubt anything else! You can't just sheep him and then say that his triple vote is somehow bad. His triple vote gets better the longer we go in this game. If we kill Oats and Oats flips town then we basically cut his life expectancy by a full cycle. | ||
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On January 25 2013 01:31 Vivax wrote: I don't think there's a more powerful role than Jack for mafia. Roleblock and frame aren't as threatening as a shot/save/vet, and Godfather wouldn't matter for anyone in a position of power.Given his experience and skill as scum he probably has a powerful role too. Investigation, pretty sure I buy. FT as mafia, much less so. | ||
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On January 25 2013 01:39 Vivax wrote: You have no way of knowing whether gonzaw used the powers or not.Austin, you're derp, I already wrote gonzaw used his powers. He's the guy who used the extra shot N1 and today he's been masoning. Don't believe FT is town just cause of the D1 lynch. People elected him to kill prplhz, so that's what he would do, along with getting massive cred. The simple fact is that even IF those are the powers he used, he would still have medic and vet available, both of which can mess with town vig/JOAT shots. Whereas IF FT were mafia, he would have no active ability to interfere with town action. His power, IF he is mafia, is his vote. A very public, very obvious power. | ||
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You have made a statement that Gonzaw shot N1, and has masoned someone. The OP states that a detective finds out the "role" of the player. Therefore, people are asking whether you are actually claiming that your detective check told you both role AND that Gonzaw had taken the two actions you are claiming he took or whether you are assuming he took those actions. That's it. The way you keep phrasing things, you make it sound like you checked Gonzaw, and the check came back: "Gonzaw is a jack mason. Also, by the way, Gonzaw used his powers to shoot someone N1 and to mason someone." We're just trying to determine whether you actually received 100% confirmation that Gonzaw used his power as you are claiming he did, or whether you just assume that. | ||
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On January 25 2013 02:01 Vivax wrote: I suppose gonzaw shot N1, there are no mafia vigilantes. I don't have confirmation on that, it's a theory I have cause he is the jack. Okay, that's why people were fighting you so hard, because you presented both your check and some assumptions you made together. | ||
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On January 25 2013 02:16 Toadesstern wrote: I'd say we lynch the (possible) red check the other DT has once I mason him tomorrow. Toad, stop being Vivax. (1) I am Toad, and I know of a DT who got a red check. (2) I am Toad, and I know of someone who is a DT, and I do not know what their N1 check came out. | ||
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On January 25 2013 02:24 Toadesstern wrote: okay 5th time: I know a DT. I do not know a DT with a red check and I never said that. I also never said I am masoned with a DT although people keep saying that for whatever reason, but said DT might have a red check tomorrow, that's why I'm going to mason him tomorrow. No no, I'm not assuming you're masoned with a DT. Your comment can only be true if you're masoned with someone who themselves was in contact with a DT, otherwise you're lying about something. I just wanted to check on that. "(possible) red check" was just a confusing statement. EVERY DT has a possible red check every night, so it's weird to phrase it like that, rather than just say "check" or whatever. Just pointing out that it might be red isn't actually any information and struck me as funny. Made it seem like you actually knew of someone who had CLAIMED a red check, but you didn't know whether you trusted that person yet, so the "possible" angle was whether they actually did or did not get a red check. If that were your meaning, you'd be lying. | ||
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On January 25 2013 02:31 Toadesstern wrote: Just using "red check" makes it seem like you actually KNOW of a red check, or a claimed red check. Vivax was talking about tomorrow's lynches, and you saying "we lynch the (possible) red check" reads differently then "one of them may be taken care of, I know of a guy who's a DT and maybe he has a red check." It's just semantics, but your statement was confusing, and it appears I wasn't the only one who found it to be so.well you only lynch the guy if the check comes back red... don't you? | ||
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THIS. THIS IS MY KIND OF GAME | ||
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On January 25 2013 03:20 gonzaw wrote: I'm home now Why the fuck am I getting like 20 votes? Can someone put a tl:dr; version while I'm reading the thread? Claimed red check. | ||
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On January 25 2013 03:22 gonzaw wrote: What the..? From whom? Sir Vivax of Crazypersonshire hath made accusations that you be a "mafia jack mason" http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=393344¤tpage=104#2071 | ||
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On January 25 2013 03:24 gonzaw wrote: Dude in the picture looks like a detective to me. It checks out.That's so obviously bullshit. | ||
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On January 25 2013 03:30 gonzaw wrote: That is the part that makes it slightly more convincing. Oh right forgot about that. The thing is that It doesn't make sense for either: -A framer to frame me "mafia jack mason" instead of, say just "mafia jack" -Vivax being scum fake-claiming I'm "mafia jack mason". There's some scum motivation behind either of those, and someone faked a "jack mason", which doesn't make sense because I'm obviously not mason and didn't mason anybody, so how the fuck would they expect anybody to believe that? It's either REMARKABLY creative of a framer to make you a "jack mason" or remarkably creative of Vivax to say he checked you and you came back both roles or you are mafia. The low-hanging fruit is for the framer to make someone a roleblocker, which town can't have. More likely that you go for something like, or just mafia whatever, rather than notice that only mafia could be x + mason and frame someone to appear as that, because you've already got mafia-only roles sitting in front of you that SOUND damning on their own, like framer. | ||
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On January 25 2013 04:04 Vivax wrote: I think that you are borderline nonsensical, but the fact that you're making all these connections off everything makes me more certain that you aren't faking this check. If you're making up the Gonzaw check, then you have little reason to make all these other reads when it's all going to fall apart.Austin, what do you think about the points raised about yamato and FT regarding their stance on gonzaw? As to those players themselves, I think your points are not strong. FT is either town or is mafia doing everything he can to appear town and lead town - i.e., not the stuff that you're jumping on him for. Yamato I believe I have as town, weaker, but...you seem to be saying both that: (1) anyone who said something positive about Gonzaw is mafia trying to make him look good; and (2) anyone who said something negative about Gonzaw is mafia trying to bus him. That is sillypants. Sillypants to the max. ESPECIALLY for yamato to be "bussing" a guy who, at least to me, didn't feel like a legitimate lynch for a while (early early today when everyone was on annul or oats). Maybe nobody was masoned by Gonzaw, but this post is super super important and is getting lost in the other crap. On January 25 2013 03:51 annul wrote: did anyone mason with gonzaw this game? if so speak up please On January 25 2013 03:51 annul wrote: did anyone mason with gonzaw this game? if so speak up please On January 25 2013 03:51 annul wrote: did anyone mason with gonzaw this game? if so speak up please On January 25 2013 03:51 annul wrote: did anyone mason with gonzaw this game? if so speak up please IF nobody has been masoned with gonzaw, then...it's up to each of us to determine whether we think he's: (1) a mason that hasn't masoned anyone; (2) a townie who got framed N1; or (3) a townie and vivax is lying. JX had some people thinking he was mafia. Possible he was a vig shot. Possible scum went sandro/bugs/djodref or some other combination, or only shot two players, or whatever. After the NKs, debears and maybe others were asking why those shots and not Gonzaw/I, his examples. So...in terms of people that I could see getting framed, Gonzaw would be one of the better candidates. Can't frame toad or FT, shooting sandro, so imo the best frame targets were like bugs/Gonzaw/Chez maybe? It's...possible. You have to weigh that possibility of a frame against the possibility Gonzaw, as mason, wouldn't mason anyone (if nobody claims) | ||
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The first part is...irrelevant right now I think? I can't remember why I put that there. | ||
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On January 25 2013 05:54 FiveTouch wrote: Its the mason bit that bugs me. Whatever he does in thread, if he were a mason, someone should have spoken up or else he just...didn't use his power for 2 days?You're right, actually, he's not a bad frame target. I hadn't considered that so much. On the other hand, gonzaw coming back to the thread, admitting he's been pretty lazy, and leaving again - this doesn't look so good for him. Possible mafia decided not to risk using their masons, and maybe try to screw with our heads later on ("we haven't seen any mafia masons, better name the masons and we can figure out which are mafia" or something to that effect), but that doesn't feel likely. | ||
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I find it highly unlikely that a mason, even a mafia mason, wouldn't use his power for two straight days. A jack mason could possibly even mason 2 people on a day, if they stack, and then he's passed up three activations. The only way that makes sense to me is to eventually use as a way to get the names of all the masons, and to be able to start cutting them down. But by the time that plan came to fruition, you'd be days into the game. I don't like the idea of the mafia trading their ability to use the mason power to influence people for a potential benefit later on, getting to identify town masons. I think the odds that Gonzaw was framed or that Vivax is lying are higher than the odds that mafia decided to go with a strategy of holding all mason powers. One vet, and one smurf who may be a vet, can't be DTed. Sandroba was set to be shot, no need for you to frame him. In my mind, that leaves Bugs, Chez, Gonzaw, and maybe me as good frame options? I don't think I'd get checked over people in that group. I feel like I was active enough D1 that people could read me, wouldn't check me, and I don't think anyone finds me particularly dangerous, in the sense that I'd be a D1 check option. Bugs, Chez, gonzaw more likely fit that role. Toad was talking about jailing bugs or sandro, so maybe don't waste a frame there? Chez and Gonzaw. Neither a bad check N1. Knowing where Chez coming from useful. Knowing where Gonzaw coming from useful, AND we know that he pushed a little harder to be mayor and had slightly more in the way of reads than Chez did (imo). I think he's a really decent option for a N1 frame. Earlier I didn't think scum would be crafty enough to frame someone as "x + mason," but...given that we can check Gonzaw again tonight and find out for SURE (OP says can't frame same person twice), I'd rather not kill him today. | ||
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On January 25 2013 06:11 Vivax wrote: The use of "waffle" =/= marv. Is marv in this game? Nope. So it could be marv. But saying "waffle" once isn't person-defining in my book. Honestly, I looked at some of his posts for "dear" and "sweetie" in an attempt to identify marv, and am currently on not-marv because of the lack of those.@ austinmcc I think you having doubts about this stuff makes you look a little better. I don't think scum would doubt that gonzaw is scum at this point. What you still utterly fail at is being incredibly gullible in case you're town and letting marv and Toad get away with withholding their information regarding other masons and alleged blue powerroles, but you feel the need to quote annul and his legitimate question without actually pursuing the information that is not being disclosed and that makes you look rather worse. As far as the other masons and alleged blue power roles, yes. I'm more than happy to let people withhold that information. Here's the thing. I usually go crazy over setups. I love to speculate, guess roles, try to use roles to win, etc. It usually ends poorly for me. One of the parts of my mafia game that I need to work on is de-emphasizing roles and relying more on actually basic scumhunting and filtering. I often devolve into trying to get alignments based off roles and setups, and frankly it's just not as effective as the games where I don't do any of that. So I don't care about the roles for right now. Heck, look at me yesterday, going crazy over the mason roles and not paying attention to the fact there can be more than one mafia mason. LOOK AT THIS THREAD TODAY, with everyone going nuts over DTs and masons and everything. We're lynching Gonzaw, as a town, because there's a red check on him. Some players think he's scummy based on his play, but look at how many votes he has because of the check. He would not be getting majority lynched today based on scummy play, it is only because he has a red check and is an effortless lynch or mislynch. I like that less and less as I keep reading today. Annul asked a very legitimate question and it got lost, because we're just going nuts over roles and who is connected by role and everything else. I would rather cut all that crap away. Gonzaw's PLAY felt townie to me. So for now, I am going to think he's town and was framed, and I would like for you, but nobody else, to recheck him tonight. Anyone who wants to lynch Gonzaw needs to be able to articulate why they think he wouldn't have used his mason powers. I'm done dealing with the power role crap for now. | ||
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Then I look and your vote is on Gonzaw... | ||
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On January 25 2013 06:39 Vivax wrote: We should join our mystic forces. Please no. | ||
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Do you think that Gonzaw is a mafia mason, was framed, or that you have linked up with a Decepticon? Or, some other option that nobody has suggested yet but would explain things. | ||
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On January 25 2013 06:47 grush57 wrote: Well I don't think there would be a high chance of him being framed, he was pretty townie so I doubt they would use a frame on him, and if Vivax was right and we don't lynch him mafia will probably kill vivax. Mafia mason maybe, I don't think Vivax was lying so he is probably some kind of scum. Alright. Do you believe that the teenage mutant ninja turtles must be normal turtles who turtle around in some ooze, or are you okay with them being aliens? | ||
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Is anyone around that isn't Vivax or Acro? Is anyone interested in considering a frame? I've got to run to dinner soon, may or may not be back before lynch, but I keep refreshing and am getting this sinking feeling that everyone slapped a vote down and zoned out, waiting for the lynch. | ||
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On January 25 2013 07:19 DearestSnot wrote: Because I was voting oats before switching to gonzaw, oats is still my strongest read, and I'm still not down with the idea of leaving him up just because he's a bodyguard. why are you voting Oats? wtf? I think everyone should really reconsider Chezinu. I am still not feeling like people really are considering him. He's a weird player in that most people simply will ignore a lot of what he says, but I personally don't find that conducive to actually learning how to read him. He is displaying a stark contrast in his game here to his game in LVIII, and his only real activity recently has been throwing dirt on my case and saying that I am not to be trusted, contradicting what I have to say, etc. He hasn't put forth any reads and he certainly doesn't seem interested in telling us who he thinks the lynch should be. Now, he kinda gets an excuse out of that, since gonzaw is most certainly going to die. We have only a few hours left in day 2, and any player who, at this point, like BKE or Chezinu, has no reads, is probably scum. I can recognize that it's ... not the best thought process to have, but I'm resistant to the idea of lynching someone who hasn't done ANYTHING really, even when that's more or less the basis for lynching them, this early - BKE, Chez, Grush. Holding out hope for a/some vigis or JOATs. As to Chez, we have more to go on there than with the other players - he has been involved in at least two masonings, if everyone is telling the truth. That should give us more to go on, and the masons he was with can share their thoughts at some point. If we're going to go after a heavy lurker, I'd prefer a not-Chezinu, because it seems there's more to Chezinu than just what's been in thread. | ||
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On January 25 2013 07:53 debears wrote: Austin, here's the problem with not lynching Gonzaw: We don't figure out anything about either of them. What are the odds of mafia framing a townie at the early stage of the game? That would mean that mafia, heading into n1 was comfortable with the main targets of suspicion. After a prplhz lynch, I wouldn't think that all the mafia would be well hidden and not under suspicion. Phonepost. If we don't lynch gonzaw, AND neither dies tonight, AND nobody checks gonzaw AND nobody checks vivax if he isn't framed, then and only then do we find out.nothing. Except we do find out something, the alignment of whoever we DO lynch. Right now, if we flip scum gonzaw then we find out he's scum and vivax almost certainly town cop. If we flip him and he's town, we find out... He's town and either was framed or vivax lying. You're overestimating the info we gain FOR SURE from a flip, and it's not more/much more than what is gained from. Any other lynch | ||
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On January 25 2013 07:46 DearestSnot wrote: I don't think all 3 mafia. Given no mason claims, I think frame more likely than gonzaw scum.so you're encouraging mafia to not do anything, is that what I'm supposed to understand from this post? You STILL want to lynch Oats despite the fact that 1. We pretty much have to kill gonzaw/vivax. 2. This is a strong indication that Oats is not actually mafia. Think about it, if gonzaw is scum why would he run on a platform that preferred lynching Oats to prplhz? The only possible answer to that is all 3 were scum, but that idea is so preposterous that I can't believe anyone would ever seriously consider it. Secondly, you state a bunch of shit about not being willing to lynch people who aren't doing anything, when that's basically the modus operandi of scum this game. Just look at prplhz and gonzaw, neither of them did jack shit. In fact, it's what scum do in MOST games. They sit around and pretend to do shit when in reality they aren't doing anything at all. So why the aversion to lynching players like Chezinu and BKE when as town you expect them to formulate reads? Why encourage that type of play? Why encourage mafia to continue to lurk and noob townies to continue to do nothing? As to aversion to lynching inactive, yes, scum hide in inactivrs. And we let them. Always. Whatever causes us to let them in other games causes me to do so here. Or at the very least, I don't want some late-in-the-cycle whakc-a-lurker game. Bugs. Why didn't gonzaw mason anyone? If he's scum, why didn't he mason? Every person who is voting him needs to have an answer to that imo. | ||
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On January 25 2013 08:30 Stutters695 wrote: I've considered the possibility of a frame but it feels like an awful lot has to line up for that to be true. Vivax would have to have picked the same target as the farmer first of all which is possible but unlikely and we won't learn much of anything in addition to rushing a lynch. Why didn't gonzaw, as a mason, mason people? | ||
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On January 25 2013 08:32 FiveTouch wrote: absolutely Dick all.austin, it's one and a half hours from the flip, and several hours since Vivax released his check. What has gonzaw done in the meanwhile? He did do stuff in aperture 2 and acant believe mini when he was town and attacked. But...why didn't he mason anyone? I don't think he is getting lynched for his response here, nobody is pulling up past games and arguing meta. This is a lynch based.on a check that popped out a role which doesn't make sense to me here. | ||
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On January 25 2013 10:43 FiveTouch wrote: prplhz was also on you at the end of voting. He may have wanted to stick and hope to get you to lynch someone else, since you didn't announce until right at deadline, but he + any scumbuddy could have moved gonzaw. So, if Broodking and Chezinu are both mafia, they could have got gonzaw into the Sheriff position Day 1. Broodking voted for himself 3 minutes from deadline, and then Chezinu voted for gonzaw. It could be, though, that BKE is just useless and came back to avoid the modkill and vote for himself, and is mafia. | ||
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On January 25 2013 11:44 DearestSnot wrote: Chezinu is up there for me. Gonzaw was pretty high too for me, especially after how he responded to the NKs. That's why I pushed them both over Oats today, but the town resisted both. Stop resisting good lynches :p I'd love to, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards | ||
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On January 26 2013 01:39 FiveTouch wrote: Both less telling than the third reason, he refused to answer the question about dogs and snowmenThere are two good reasons that Axle could be mafia. Firstly, his significant drop-off in activity. Secondly, the mayoral candidates he supported on Day 1 were firstly Chezinu, and then gonzaw. This is suspicious by itself. | ||
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On January 26 2013 03:42 Vivax wrote: What I say is not related to your true alignment. People can laugh about me, I can deal with that. You tell medics to protect randomly into these 3 people. What do you think a medic is going to do upon reading this? I don't know either. Then you aim for Bugs. Chance for you not protecting the best townie AND not roleblocking the mafia jack? 2/3 * 1/2 * 100 = 33 % Chance for you not doing that AND scum hitting the right guy among sandro and Bugs: 1/3 * 1/2 = 1/6 = roughly 16 % In truth it should be even smaller. You said yourself that Djo and JX were retarded NK targets. Can you find a game a recent game in which mafia was trying to direct night actions in this manner? The last time or two I've seen it, including times when the list of prot targets had scum in it, it was a townie doing that. It does not mean that Toad is townie, or that everyone who directs night actions like this is townie. But it does mean that everyone who does this is not necessarily scum. | ||
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On January 26 2013 05:52 yamato77 wrote: Thought I made it pretty explicit.Austin why would you not want to lynch Gonzaw after that check? Voted him after the check. Then got hung up on why Gonzaw, as a mason, didn't mason anybody. Could not understand why he wouldn't do so, so felt it was more likely that he was not a mason and something was up. Still believed that Vivax wasn't lying, so if I don't believe Gonzaw was a mason, have to assume he was framed. That also fit more with my read on his posts, which I found townie. | ||
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I didn't move my vote until decently late, and didn't start pushing the framing idea until decently late in the cycle. If I really wanted to save someone who was a scumbuddy, I should have been pushing earlier and harder, instead of late in the cycle when it seemed like a lost cause. And while talking about the frame, I noted that a player can only be framed once. What I wanted to do was lynch Oats and DT check Gonzaw again N2. Yes, this wastes a/multiple town DT checks, which is beneficial to scum, but it ALSO ensures that Gonzaw gets caught if we actually took that path. If I'm actually trying to SAVE a scumbuddy, then I recommended a strange course of action. Perhaps a short-term win in terms of using up DT checks (if people followed my plan), but it wouldn't save Gonzaw and I'd be making myself pretty visible when I could have just kept my vote on gonzaw. | ||
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On January 26 2013 06:27 Vivax wrote: No.Did you just claim DT? | ||
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On January 22 2013 06:15 mkfuba07 wrote: Yes I'm doing x, but ...You actually think it's impossible for me to be town based on my posts? I'll be the first to admit that I'm bringing little to the table right now (no one is constantly aware of it as much as I am), but I'm giving what I can. I don't see how I'm 100% scum, especially when I know that it's just the opposite. It's that same thing I pointed out in one of your early posts D1, something that I find to indicate mafia posts. His bit isn't as explicit as saying "I'm doing this specific thing, but I'm also doing these other things," however, it falls into that pattern. | ||
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On January 26 2013 09:04 FiveTouch wrote: I don't think they're likely to be mafia right now. I am also unlikely to be mafia at any other point this game. | ||
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On January 28 2013 07:03 Chezinu wrote: Does no one care? (If you flip mafia the kitten WILL NOT deliver this) (Also I really wish I didn't add that smile, but I too much afterwards to undo back ) | ||
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On January 28 2013 10:14 FiveTouch wrote: I'm still in disbelief that BKE flipped town really. After one KP last night, jesus. No idea why you'd trade 1 KP on your choice of player for a near-guaranteed mislynch on BKE the next day. It WAS only N2 last night, and Bugs was jailed N1. So scum may have expected that he'd have medic protection, given it was the first night he was targetable for that, and double-stacked him? In that case, you're trading 1 KP on your choice of player for a near-guaranteed kill on Bugs and a near-guaranteed mislynch on BKE, which starts to look decent I guess. | ||
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On January 28 2013 10:26 Mocsta wrote: c9++ rolls setups for 13-player games. A normal is generally going to try and balance team size and roles, but afaik there's no formula that the players can game like that to know what may or may not be in the game.I thought the way the roles went was that the letter for mad hatter had to come up multiple times, to get multiple characters. therefore, the chances of 1 mad hatter >>> chances of 2 mad hatter (Statistically) same reason its unlikely to have 3 detectives | ||
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So far we have chez, prplhz, gonzaw, who have all been around awhile. I would expect two newer players as the last two mafia, but it's not guaranteed. | ||
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On January 28 2013 10:48 Mocsta wrote: A medic protects from one hit, per the OP. Therefore, yes. It's not uncommon for mafia to doublestack important townies early on to make sure they get killed even if medic protected.OK, well for me the outcome of this discussion since BKE was lynched is (1) we have no idea the # of mafia power roles - stop guessing (2) we have no idea the # of mafia masons - so all masons need to be scrutinised (yes including me) QUESTION. If medic was on bugs... and mafia used 2KP to shoot bugs.. would he have died (i.e. first bullet saved by medic, 2nd bullet kill shot?) There have already been a couple posts that were just general musings about why mafia would either hold a KP or double stack Bugs. | ||
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I was all blah about prplhz D1, found Gonzaw townie, and somewhat pushed to save Gonzaw D2. I noted that one of the reasons not to make me mayor was that I'd be busy until the end of the month with work. That was an understatement. I'm posting WAY less and reading WAY less than usual, I know. That will most likely continue until the end of January, or whenever I can get my work out the door. That said, I don't see it making sense for both Gonzaw and I to run as third-place folks when we could have consolidated. If I were mafia and trying to save Gonzaw D2, I should have: (1) started talking about a possible frame from the very outset, to maybe keep votes off him BEFORE they got there; (2) shut up and let Gonzaw die, given that so many votes had been dropped on him and it was unlikely I'd save him before the end of D2. | ||
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On January 29 2013 01:08 Toadesstern wrote: I don't usually give a crap about insta-delurks but that was a funny one :p I'm not happy with the amount of attention I'm giving this game for the last couple days. I knew it was going to catch me some flak sooner or later. Been kinda waiting to insta-respond to whoever brought it up. | ||
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On January 29 2013 01:33 yamato77 wrote: If anyone has shots left, I'd prefer someone who is suspicious of me shoot me tonight rather than us lynching me.But the question is, are you going to lynch Austin? I see no reason not to. I'm a veteran. For the first cycle and part of the second I thought I might have been vocal enough to get a shot, but no. At this point, I don't think I'm likely to attract an NK, so there's less reason not to claim and hope to absorb a shot. Scum lost their JOAT, and have no medic ability and not vet ability on their team anymore. If anyone is really suspicious of me and doesn't have another target, they're more than welcome to shoot me tonight. You can think you're shooting mafia, I'll survive and be town by virtue of role that mafia can't have, and hopefully won't complicate the D4 lynch with an extra option. | ||
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On January 29 2013 01:40 FiveTouch wrote: Mostly guilt over not participating. I'm not used to not being involved, and I don't like it. I don't think I'm a likely NK candidate at this point, because I've been so uninvolved, so the surprise of the role is gone. And if I'm not going to be able to contribute as positively as normal, I especially don't want to clog up a day of discussion.Why would you claim? Fuck me. This tells us and gives us nothing. I understand you don't seem to want to lynch me, but if there's serious discussion on that point I'd rather just nip it in the bud. It's probably dumb, it doesn't give us anything except maybe make scum NKs interesting. Effectively, with 1 KP, there are 3 targets they can't kill and it's going to be difficult to see them try and set up for the very late game. | ||
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On January 29 2013 01:47 FiveTouch wrote: If anyone is ACTUALLY suspicious of me and has a shot, they can shoot me. My surviving proves the claim. Except how does an unverifiable claim nip anything in the bud? Yes, it's not the best way to verify oneself, and maybe we don't even HAVE any shots (seems odd they've been held this long AND we've got lots of blues). But on the off chance one of the people that wants to lynch me or might want to lynch me has a shot, they can fire away. | ||
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On January 29 2013 03:23 yamato77 wrote: You should be looking harder at my filter. That post is immediately followed, in the same conversation, with:Looks more like he's attacking Vivax than trying to get him to move his vote. On January 22 2013 08:17 austinmcc wrote: You put your vote on Chezinu, who would be the second player to have 4. That didn't change anything, unless you have a magical plan to move multiple votes around, which would make you scum. I don't actually think you're scum this game, but I can't get a handle on your play. If you want Toad to be sheriff, then voting chezinu doesn't help. If you want not-me to be sheriff, then voting chezinu doesn't help. So you've taken an action that does nothing, really, unless you can move more votes. And the action you took was wrong for you if you can move more votes, because you want toad and not chezinu. So...I are confused. | ||
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On January 29 2013 03:30 yamato77 wrote: You're not helping yourself with this delurking business. Am I supposed to respond "you're not helping yourself with your tunneling"? Look at the post that follows. Do you believe that, in context, the first post reads like I was attacking Vivax, or am I actually trying to get him to move his vote/figure out why his vote is where his vote is? If it's the latter, then, at least in the case of that post, you misread it because you did not misread it in context. On January 29 2013 03:29 yamato77 wrote: Is it just a coincidence that Austin is associated heavily with all three flipped mafia? What do you think? Do you believe I associated myself heavily with 3/4 my team? Does that match up with how I have played scum in other games? If not, am I just playing opposite game to screw with your head? (Was scum in Aperture 2 and replacement scum in Chrono Trigger). On January 29 2013 03:35 yamato77 wrote: He's delurking solely to defend himself from the possibility of being lynched. He's actually delurking to try and get this done so we can have better lynch candidates come D4, when we can actually lynch. | ||
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On January 29 2013 03:46 yamato77 wrote: Okay.Yes, I think your associations with the three flipped mafia make you mafia. Asserting otherwise is delving into pure WIFOM. I refuse to believe that it's just a coincidence that you happened to have multiple positive mentions of all three flipped mafia players. I can barely find a bad word about them. Do you believe that first quote to be me attacking vivax, or me trying to figure out why he's voting Chezinu? | ||
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On January 29 2013 06:55 grush57 wrote: Join the club. You're barely posting, as is axle at this point. As was/am I. Why does no one care that I'm barely posting? :'( Austin, why are you scum? Vivax, explain all your dt checks plox. I'm scum apparently ... mainly because I interacted oddly with the prplhz lynch D1, not wanting to lynch him but not having good reasons, didn't want Chez pushed aside as a mayoral candidate, and was townie on Gonzaw. My activity has also dropped recently compared to the early game, I'm not involved, etc. I don't THINK that stuff makes me scum given my PM, but that's the core of the reasoning as I understand it. | ||
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On January 30 2013 05:34 yamato77 wrote: I said this in my first game with him, but getting a read on Axle is difficult. If you really think he needs to die, do whatever you want, but your evidence so far is inconclusive at best. Out of curiousity, what constitutes "conclusive evidence" in a mafia game? | ||
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On January 30 2013 05:48 yamato77 wrote: Out of curiosity, what constitutes "lurking" in a mafia game? Is it only coming to post pointless questions and derail your own lynch? Ugh, I wish Marv wanted you dead. I'm legitimately interested in your answer. In your mind, I am mafia because of my interactions with the prplhz lynch, gonzaw, and chez's candidacy. A lot of the push to lynch axle centers on his supporting chez and gonzaw, but that evidence is inconclusive at best. So I'm curious as to why I am mafia but axle is difficult to get a read on and some of the same stuff is "inconclusive." | ||
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Care to elaborate? | ||
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Still interested in yamato's differentiation of Axle and I. Thought I had remembered some people wavering on BKE/Chez yesterday, was specifically interested in people who wavered on BKE. Turns out everyone voted for him but mocsta, who moved his votes off to do something else and flipped townie. Vivax and Axle both left him but came back, and some of that was dealing with formatting of the double vote and unvoting. But Vivax was the only person who posted really doubting BKE's mafiosity, and I would like to hear why - On January 28 2013 00:41 Vivax wrote: Senor Vivax, why wouldn't you have been surprised?Wouldn't even be surprised if BKE flips town at this point. I actually like the idea of not double-lynching tomorrow. In my head it's a solid tool to have around at the very end, to be able to force a double lynch when the candidates are far, far fewer means that mafia has to do a lot more scrambling and can't get 2 mislynches as easily. Just don't think it's as useful a tool right now as it will be later on. Does anyone actually think it's MORE useful tomorrow than later? If so, why? | ||
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Why double lynch NOW, when the odds are 11/2, versus waiting? Long game may get boring/suck/kill the thread, but we're squandering a resource if we lynch at 9/2 or 10/1 (assuming a NK goes through). | ||
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On January 31 2013 06:13 FiveTouch wrote: Yeah, the subjective odds are different, and I can take myself out, and all that jazz. The odds aren't 11/2, unless you really think some of the townies have a decent chance of flipping mafia. There's only a certain number of people I'm lynching into, and I know who I want to lynch tomorrow. Plus with a double lynch tomorrow we can revive a bit of flagging interest, and town can really debate a target, rather than me (and toad) ruling by diktat. Not being funny but like 90% of town hasn't had a say in a lynch really all game, and I think tomorrow's a pretty good time to do so. But I'm skeptical that a double lynch is going to create oodles of discussion, a lot of us that aren't saying much also didn't say much on our earlier double lynch day (at least about lynch targets), and more skeptical that the value of any extra discussion is higher during the next cycle than one ... 2 or 3 down the road. | ||
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On January 31 2013 06:21 FiveTouch wrote: You were skeptical about gonzaw being mafia because there were no mason claims from people he'd talked to, despite the overwhelming evidence that was his lack of trying to help town when he was outed. I rather say I prefer my judgement on the dynamics and feel of a thread than yours, because you tend to put the emphasis on the wrong things. The last double lynch was decided pretty much before the day arrives, this one is not. Do you know which 2 players we're going to lynch tomorrow? Maybe you can guess, but everyone has different opinions. On Day/Night 2 BKE/Chez was getting pretty damn certain already. So yeah, I think it will force town to be active at this point tomorrow, whereas town has kinda died a bit of a death today, and I think that's a good thing. And I want to eliminate people I think are possibly mafia asap. Alright, fair enough. I'd agree that the two double lynches will be different (and that I've been incorrect on most everything so far this game, for not-great reasons). I'm still in favor of holding it for later though, and I wish there was more actual discussion on either day about double lynching, instead of blind votes. | ||
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On January 31 2013 06:34 FiveTouch wrote: Mafia has 1 KP max. They're not magically dropping a list of players overnight.There's no real reason to hold it for later. Mafia have a whole list of pseudo-confirmed townies that they can hit that we are never going to lynch. I'd rather have these players alive and able to talk about things tomorrow than not. | ||
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On January 31 2013 06:40 FiveTouch wrote: irrelevant? if we get a bunch of lynches wrong we're down say 2 more townies from lynches and 2 more almost-confirmed townies from NKs so... double lynch now while they're still around also for other reasons i just mentioned just do what i fucking say for once for god's sake. Do what you fucking say is, in part, a problem that you're saying the double lynch will help solve. If we get a bunch of lynches wrong and are losing townies, I don't see how a double lynch helps that. We're magically going to double lynch scum or 2 scum when we couldn't single lynch scum for 2-3 days? | ||
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On January 31 2013 06:47 FiveTouch wrote: No, I'm for using one later. When mafia has less possible mislynch targets (the folks dead due to single lynches).also, you appear to be arguing against using a double lynch later, when the only reason we'd use a double lynch later is because we hadn't killed all the mafia yet. so well done there. Even if you think we're losing a clear townie every night, we'd also be losing a lynch candidate every day. The clear townies shouldn't be factoring into the math of a double or single lynch either way, because we're just not lynching them. But the number of lynch candidates remaining DOES effect the math, and we only get better odds by waiting. | ||
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On January 31 2013 06:45 FiveTouch wrote: I've been wrong in a bunch of my reads. This is read-independent. I was wrong about a couple of non-read things this game for a bit, but those also aren't at issue here. Not sure why you're getting defensive/offensive here.ok, i submit to your argument, because you've been so god damn correct this game. To the extent you want a double lynch to get people talking, this is another way to get people talking. Not as valuable talk as who they want to lynch and reads, but it's still pulling people into the game during what otherwise seems to just be a dead remainder of the cycle. Or not, seeing as nobody else wants to say anything. | ||
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On January 31 2013 06:52 FiveTouch wrote: Why are you so incapable of just trusting my judgement? Jesus :/ I'm fine with your judgment when I think it's right I just don't think it is in this case. I don't see this as a judgment call at all, I think it's just straight-up better to hold our other double lynch for later. | ||
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On January 31 2013 06:58 FiveTouch wrote: I swear you didn't type this British before being outed.What's going to happen tomorrow right. Is that there's gonna be some people shouting that you should get lynched. And some people shouting that annul should get lynched. And Toad probably saying fuba should get lynched. And then I probably won't be able to stop what I think is a completely suboptimal lynch, and it'll be rubbish. Whereas if we double lynch, town will much more readily agree to my lynch target, if there's another one up for grabs. It's basically a win for everyone. That still leaves us what you're calling a rubbish lynch tomorrow. In that case it doesn't stop a suboptimal lynch. That wording makes it sound like we'll just robo-lynch your target of choice and then have a normal lynch discussion concerning target #2, instead of just having a normal lynch discussion concerning the only lynch. I'm going to assume this is just poor wording or whatever, and not push this point. | ||
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On January 31 2013 07:08 Adam4167 wrote: Whether we use the double lynch tomorrow or on a later cycle, town-directed KP is ALWAYS the same. The timing of the KP changes, but the amount does not.Why is using the double lynch even a discussion? Having more town-directed KP is always a good thing. | ||
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On January 31 2013 07:14 FiveTouch wrote: I SEE that stuff. I almost-entirely disagree with it.If Axle flips mafia, then we have one mafia left to find. I'd much rather lynch the scummiest two guys right away and increase our odds of hitting mafia right then, drastically, then save it for some hypothetical situation later when town might be in trouble and it's a desperation move, rather than it being an empowering move. I would say it amazes me that you can't see this stuff, or don't consider it more important than your arguments, but it doesn't at all, sadly. If you want it for a situation where we're down to one mafia, you can hold it until then (unless we're awful). Rather than relying on "If x flips mafia," we can double lynch WHEN someone flips mafia. And I don't see why we'd lynch the two scummiest guys right away, instead of lynch the single scummiest guy for a day or two, and then lynch the two scummiest guys. It's not less powerful later, it's MORE powerful later when the pool of scummy guys is smaller. If you want to say that it's better for thread morale or stuff like that, then fine, that's a point that I'm not really going to argue because it's more mushy. But the math on when it's weakest/strongest isn't in your favor here, the double lynch gets stronger as the pool of scummy folks gets smaller. It's not "desperation" at all to double lynch later. | ||
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On January 31 2013 07:17 Adam4167 wrote: Sure. But having more faster is the better way to go. Give me a 5-way lynch right now and ill take it. Clean out some unreadable's and probably hit a scum in the process. Why is it "better"? You can lynch unreadable people any cycle. You can clear them out BEFORE you double lynch. If the benefit is that you "probably" hit scum, then the chance that you hit them increases with each cycle, so that's a downside, not a benefit. | ||
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On January 31 2013 07:42 yamato77 wrote: Austin why are you being super active when we're talking about whether or not we should double lynch as opposed to when we talk about who we want to lynch? Aren't there at least a couple people you want dead right now? For non-scummy reasons, like, "I have time right at this moment."? I have a couple questions I would like answered, more than I have a couple people I want dead right now. Like the one I asked you. | ||
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On January 31 2013 07:57 yamato77 wrote: That's the one. Why are my interactions with gonzaw/chez/prplhz and discussions about them making you entirely sure I'm mafia, while they are inconclusive evidence as far as Adam is concerned?Something about the difference between you and Axle? Basically just a question to appear to make yourself look better to me. | ||
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On January 31 2013 08:09 yamato77 wrote: How does knowing about what I'm doing factor into this, specifically? It sure doesn't make my reads right.Because you know more about what you're doing than Axle. And Axle's posts are far more difficult to decipher, so your association is more overt. | ||
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Axle** | ||
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I'm equating myself to Axle because we happen to be those two players. | ||
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I'll spare you the work of clicking twice. It's on Axle. | ||
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On January 31 2013 08:25 yamato77 wrote: So why are you trying to convince me to think of you like the guy you want to lynch? I think he's unreadable. You are not. Your association is meaningful. Let me ask you this, why do you want to lynch Axle? Is there a reason I can find in your filter? I'm not trying to convince you of anything. You reacted differently to very similar information. This isn't going anywhere though. I want to know why I'm mafia because of x, but x is inconclusive evidence as to axle (as far as your reads were concerned). Especially when it concerns things like votes, which aren't unreadable posts, which are ENTIRELY readable because you just look at who they're on. If axle flips red, then, depending on why you were differentiating us, you might look bad to me. You'd have taken the same information, or similar information, and branded me mafia but branded the mafia dude "inconclusive." That certainly seems like something one might want to follow up on. As to axle, I don't think there's a specific reason in my filter, no. | ||
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On January 31 2013 08:29 yamato77 wrote: I just looked. There isn't. So I'm going to go with what you've been saying right now, which is that he's under suspicion for "similar reasons" as you are, which you have realized to be your associations with the flipped mafia. So why is Axle mafia for it and you're not? See my posts about expecting to get crap and how my filter looks? I can understand why I'd look like mafia. I would be suspicious of me in this situation. He's mafia and I'm not because I've seen my PM. Again, I'm asking questions to get a read on you. | ||
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On January 31 2013 08:38 yamato77 wrote: It's inconclusive to me because I don't know how he gets his reads, nor am I particularly sure what those reads are. You, however, I have played with before when you were town. You're what I would consider a normal player, so your reads on three confirmed mafias players SHOULD mean something. You're just trying to downplay it. If I were trying to downplay it, WHY WOULD I BE BRINGING IT UP!? | ||
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On January 31 2013 08:40 yamato77 wrote: Because you don't want me to think you're mafia. That makes no sense at all. You can't downplay something by bringing it up... | ||
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On January 31 2013 08:46 yamato77 wrote: Obviously if you're going to argue my diction this is going nowhere. Sleep tight, Marv doesn't want you dead yet so you probably won't get lynched tomorrow anyway. It's going somewhere. We may not know, but the inconclusive comment from you WAS curious. It's worth teasing out. It's worth following up on why you think I'm downplaying something that I'm bringing up, to see if there's anything there or if it's just a comment you're tossing out offhand. It looks to be more the latter. | ||
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On January 31 2013 08:56 yamato77 wrote: You silly.I give so little of a shit that you're suspicious of me, you don't even know. Good luck with that read, bro. Seriously, look at your reads and your play. I'm mafia, in part because I called Gonzaw townie D1, thought that Chezinu shouldn't be dismissed as a mayoral candidate, and was wonky about the prplhz lynch. Axle's votes on Gonzaw and Chezinu are "inconclusive." Do you remember your D1? "Chez is not a bad candidate for mayor" - + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2013 09:41 yamato77 wrote: The main thing is that I don't think Chez is trying to be unreadable this game. Most games he is trying to be that way because he doesn't want mafia to shoot him, but this game he seems to be playing straight up which makes him way easier to read and understand. So the attack is baseless and scummy to make. Chez is not a bad candidate for mayor. And people shouldn't be discrediting his candidacy On January 21 2013 10:02 yamato77 wrote: The fact that you took extra special attention to blowing off Chezinu makes me think you simply want to discredit his candidacy for reasons I have yet to hear from your mouth. You were pretty noncommital about prplhz yourself - + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2013 11:26 yamato77 wrote: @Bugs Your only qualification for him being town is that he seems to 'give a fuck' about the game, but I'm not sure I see his particularly caring attitude after he realized he wasn't getting elected to mayor. I'll think about you guys' prplhz lynch idea but I hate sitting on the idea of lynching someone who isn't posting to make it controversial. On January 21 2013 13:29 yamato77 wrote: Prphlz seems similar, though I don't know him as well. What I do know is that the guy doesn't post a lot and he doesn't read blatant town so it is easy to pick on him because no one is going to disagree with you. He may very well be mafia but nothing he's done screams scum to me. On January 21 2013 22:31 yamato77 wrote: I suppose I do have a penchant for ignoring lurking players, hm. This post is insightful, and definitely something I have a hard time believing a mafia player to make. They would much rather me continue to be destructive and stupid. I have conflicting opinions of the two players you want to lynch. On one hand, they are being scummy on their own, as is evident to me at this point. On the other, they do seem like rather easy targets to pick on when they are town, which makes me doubt their true alignment, and consider meaningfully the implications of their flip on the players that are pushing them. I want to make sure I hold you guys accountable for these lynches, if you are indeed elected. While I don't disagree with them on the basic premise you put forth, I am highly suspicious and paranoid about the alignment of these veteran players, especially given that I know Toad and Bugs to be good scum players. Perhaps this is the bias I am confirming here. For now I think I feel confident enough in you being town to give you the mayoral seat. What I don't want is Toad or Vivax as sherrif, so that is where I am going to use my vote for influence. Would anyone necessarily be opposed to me getting that position? (prplhz "being scummy on his own," but "seems like a rather easy target to pick on when he's town." Entirely noncommittal) And your mayoral reads? - + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2013 11:51 yamato77 wrote: The only people I'm interested in voting for are Austin, Gonzaw, Chezinu, and maybe FiveTouch (but he's a special case). I am not voting for Vivax, Toad, Djo, or any other random person running. On January 21 2013 11:51 yamato77 wrote: The only people I'm interested in voting for are Austin, Gonzaw, Chezinu, and maybe FiveTouch (but he's a special case). I am not voting for Vivax, Toad, Djo, or any other random person running. Again, I can see why me being noncommittal on prplhz, thinking people shouldn't dismiss Chezinu, being townie on Gonzaw, could be interepreted as scum play. I would see those things as scum play. I only know I'm not scum because of my PM. But you are calling me scum for these things. Then Adam "inconclusive" for his votes. And you seem to have conveniently forgotten that you were right there too, telling people not to dismiss Chezinu, being noncommittal on prplhz, being interesting in voting Gonzaw or Chezinu. Is the rest of your filter that bad? | ||
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On January 31 2013 09:23 yamato77 wrote: Feisty.So you have wasted your time looking at my filter from day 1. Good job. You omit the part where I say I'm not worried about prplhz, I'm worried about the people pushing him. You also omit the part where I vote for FT. You also forget that D2 I had Oats as town and Gonzaw as the mafia before Vivax checked him, something many people did not. Yeah, no. But knock it off. Your read on me is that I'm mafia, for a lot of stuff that you did yourself and seem to have forgotten or are trying to bury. Assuming you think you're town, that's basically three different reads that you're pulling out of very similar sets of facts. I can't see how you're differentiating them, because all you do is get hyper-defensive about it. | ||
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On January 31 2013 09:31 yamato77 wrote: How is me accusing you repeatedly over the course of this conversation "defensive"? The fuck are you smoking? It's not the accusations. It's the way you try to discredit questions, or blow them off. I also view a lot of the language as defensive, but it may not be. | ||
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On January 31 2013 09:23 yamato77 wrote: You also forget that D2 I had Oats as town and Gonzaw as the mafia before Vivax checked him, something many people did not. Do you know the first post where you mention you think Gonzaw is mafia? It's here - + Show Spoiler + On January 24 2013 16:16 yamato77 wrote: This post of Oats, along with other things like his willingness to give out reads, his overall activity level, and his fairly unnecessary (if mafia) case on Gonzaw, makes me believe that he is town. The fact that he's continued to pursue his read on Gonzaw today is quite telling to me. When he posted the case at night, I believed he would have done so with the idea that it was cheap town cred to do something like this at night when there was no lynch on the line. However, today I see that he's fairly invested in the idea that Gonzaw is mafia, something that I feel a lot of people are at the moment. Basically, if you think Gonzaw is mafia, Oats is far likelier to be town. Plus, I agree with WBG's logic regarding the BGs, and not lynching them at the moment. Unless you are absolutely certain Oats is mafia, I do not feel like it is worth it to lynch him today. That's my thought on that situation. I think he might be town, and I'm not sold on lynching him yet even if others believe otherwise because he, if town, is valuable protection for our elected roles. On to my updated mafia reads: If I take seriously the idea that Oats is town, I have to consider the possibility that Debears is not. Debears' only contribution is a case on Oats, which is quite weak. Mafia debears would want Oats lynched, because that would mean that mafia gets to shoot into both Toad and FT tonight, or at any point in the future. While this would instantly out his as confirmed mafia, I'm not sure how confident I am with the idea that mafia wouldn't trade one of their own for our two elected roles, especially the mayor. Plus, people would be content to sit on the idea of town debears until the mayor/sheriff gets shot, which is quite useful. It's basically lynch immunity. This post, and many like it, show that debears is fairly preoccupied with the idea of Bodyguards and their potential protection powers. When I was mafia, and I was attempting to bluesnipe, one of the quickest tells you can pick up on is who seems preoccupied with blues in general, or a specific role such as doctor. Debears may have already has the idea in his head on Day 1 to make this sort of play as mafia, to sub himself in as a BG and use this "unlynchable" status to his advantage. Aside from this, debears has been fairly inactive, and hasn't pursued his scum reads very strongly. He posted a case on Gonzaw (that had him as slight scum, rofl), and then backed off of it later. He has a "case" on Oats, but he earlier posted this: So we know he doesn't want to lynch Oats. Who does he want to lynch? Annul. Why? He gives zero reason. He just calls him "scummy". I don't like this sort of thing at all. The speed at which he voted for annul also to me indicates that this is a mafia vote, because he did it early in the day and with zero prior mention of annul. These four posts are the only ones he even mentions annul in at all, and they've all been in day 2. Very weird to me. In that last post he also says he'd be willing to lynch BKE, but he's never mentioned him before either, and indeed doesn't even bother to provide a reason. So what about prphlz? He supported that lynch day 1, right? That's his only mention about his own read on prplhz. All of this I believe is indicative of a blendy mafia mindset, something I find pervasive throughout his filter. Not many of his reads seem original to him at all. His low activity suggests not wanting to be in the spotlight. I don't believe he's actively playing the game in a way I think town debears would, because town debears is characteristically more convinced of his own reads, a la Hero Mini where he was hyper aggressive day 1 in pursuing his target. Now, for the same reason WBG gave for not lynching Oats, I don't think we should lynch Debears either. But if I had to pick a mafia out of the two BG's, I would actually pick debears. Oats is greener to me. So, who else do I think is mafia, and which of them do I want to lynch today? Vivax could still be mafia. While a lot of the vets have previously had him as town, even they are less certain of this idea than they were before. However, if he is mafia I don't think he's going to get any better and we will have more information to lynch him with at a later date. Unless he continues to be completely anti-town for the rest of today, I don't think he's a particularly good lynch, and I don't think many other people do either. Annul might be mafia, as he's played similar to Vivax today, but I actually feel less confident about lynching him because of how easy it is for everyone to call him town. There's literally been zero resistance to lynching him today aside from other people giving out their own mafia reads and trying to get them lynched. I don't think a single person has called him even somewhat town, though I may be wrong because I've only skimmed the last ten pages. I don't like lynching him today. Gonzaw is an interesting idea. He has a few of these types of posts in his filter, where he softdefends a player (often Vivax actually) and generally gives weak reads. I don't feel like he's taken many strong stances with his reads this game. Even his opposition of the prplhz lynch was fairly weak. Also, he has a few of these posts in his filter, where he seems particularly preoccupied with his own image, and how town perceives the things he's doing. As I just finished typing in my analysis of another mafia player in NMM XXXIII. preoccupation with town's perception is a mafia tell, as they are more likely to care about how they are perceived than town. He even goes so far as to defend his spammy nature, something that I, as town, feel completely unmotivated to justify. While this is indicative of how I feel on the matter, that I just post what I think at the time I think it, I do not feel the need to justify this mindset. However, Gonzaw obviously does, which again leads me to believe that he is concerned with his image. This idea is also reinforced with the concept that running for mayor and being active on D1 are two easy ways to get people to have cheap town reads on you. While this is not a strong mafia tell, it is what I have managed to find in his filter after a short bit of diving. I am fairly confident in the possibility of him being mafia for these reasons, along with those that the rest of town has posted. I will resume my filter dive of him tomorrow, and either confirm my own bias or perhaps see something that might change my mind. So, you went from him being one of your mayoral candidates to... This post of Oats, along with other things like his willingness to give out reads, his overall activity level, and his fairly unnecessary (if mafia) case on Gonzaw, makes me believe that he is town. Oats's case on Gonzaw is "unnecessary."However, today I see that he's fairly invested in the idea that Gonzaw is mafia, something that I feel a lot of people are at the moment. "A lot of people" are invested in the idea that Gonzaw is mafia.Basically, if you think Gonzaw is mafia, Oats is far likelier to be town. So far, no negative mentions. We're still at you being cool voting him, to thinking Oats's case was unnecessary, commenting that a lot of people find Gonzaw scummy. Then you give your mafia reads. If Oats town then maybe Debears not. LOTS of paragraphs on debears. Vivax and annul could be mafia. Then. Then. "Gonzaw is an interesting idea." Followed by some stuff on Gonzaw, followed by: While this is not a strong mafia tell, it is what I have managed to find in his filter after a short bit of diving. I am fairly confident in the possibility of him being mafia for these reasons, along with those that the rest of town has posted. I will resume my filter dive of him tomorrow, and either confirm my own bias or perhaps see something that might change my mind. So yes, you called Gonzaw mafia, sort of, before Vivax posted his check. Out of the blue, he became an interesting scumread, at a time AFTER you noted a lot of people were suspicious of him. You had him as one of FOUR scumreads. Your overall conclusion was that nothing was a strong mafia tell, that you were confidant in the POSSIBILITY of him being mafia, and that you'd look more later. You then get super defensive when Vivax calls you out for "bussing" Gonzaw - On January 25 2013 01:05 yamato77 wrote: Lol, Vivax, how am I "setting myself up to bus" someone I conclude to be mafia in my post? How am I "setting up" for anything when my vote has been on him since? Who else am I going to lynch after I make a post like that, as mafia? Stop being dumb. Gonzaw has been my focus, and it's silly of you to read everything I'm doing from the strict mindset that I am mafia. But yet, when Vivax has a RED CHECK on the guy who is "your focus," On January 25 2013 01:21 yamato77 wrote: I want to see what Gonzaw says about this. You were "confident in the possibility of him being mafia," after you noted that a bunch of people had posted suspicions about him. You had him as one of four scumreads. But he was "your focus" (Even though you'd spent way more text railing on debears, Vivax, and Toad, then mentioned Gonzaw as maybe mafia that you'd filter further later in a list of 4 guys). And then a red check comes in this guy who is apparently your focus, and you "want to see what he says" about it? You, sir, are scummy. | ||
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On January 31 2013 10:00 yamato77 wrote: I actually want an answer to that question, by the way, because I have only played with him once. Would town Austin honestly think the stuff he picked out of my filter somehow makes me mafia? Town austin, looking over your filter, does indeed think you've got a good chance of being mafia. | ||
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On January 31 2013 10:05 yamato77 wrote: It takes balls to call someone mafia for doing a far more excusable version of what you're done this game. Not entirely sure what you mean by "excusable." Otherwise, I've been pretty open in saying that I knew some of my filter looked REALLY bad after I was wrong in some reads. So yeah, if you did a lot of the same stuff, you're going to look bad too. We're both going to look bad. I have the benefit of knowing I'm town. But your reaction to similar filters is to have wildly different reads. I'm fine having balls and being consistent. You're being remarkably inconsistent. In ways that make you look bad. | ||
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Two godfathers certainly makes 2 DTs look more balanced. | ||
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On January 31 2013 11:04 yamato77 wrote: Sounds like a mafia claim to me. You do realize he can't be scum if I'm scum. | ||
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On January 31 2013 11:11 yamato77 wrote: You're less likely mafia after the flip, but not completely off the hook. At this point, with the people I'm looking at, it's a scum grading system, and grush just jumped to the top. So you poked at the fact that I didn't give a reason for voting Adam in my filter...then give me towncred when he's lynched? How exactly does that work? | ||
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GOOD LORD WHAT IS GOING ON TODAY. | ||
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On February 01 2013 01:07 FiveTouch wrote: Just a silly thing I was musing on. It looks like none of the mafia masons used their mason power. This must have been a conscious plan (presumably to discredit town masons?) Didn't make sense to me with a single player, but I suppose it makes some sense as a faction-wide decision. Pass up the chance at control over the game to stay away from getting a player or two caught by virtue of weeding through the masons for mafia, and you can bring up that up lategame and try to get some mislynches on the virtue of mason-role only. | ||
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On February 01 2013 01:17 FiveTouch wrote: yamato. I wrote up some stuff on him last night, but I think it overall fits. I've finally got a bit more free time now, though, so I need to also look at a couple other players. He's the only one that I've taken an in-depth look at so far.Who do you want to be lynching on the morrow? Off the top of my head, I don't like a lynch on annul. Balance is a small point in favor of looking at newer players. He's also asked a couple questions at times where they didn't need to be asked by mafia, and then didn't push them hard. While they could have been for town points, in cases where they could be used to try and save a mafia buddy (Gonzaw masoning), he didn't push them and so didn't feel like he was trying to start a push for a save. I'll poke around fuba, stutters, and I guess what there is of adam, but yamato just looked baaaaaaaaad to me when I was trying to talk with him and filtering him. Yes, there's always the possibility that's how he plays, and I know he can tunnel and can be abrasive, but he's still on top of my list for the moment. | ||
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On February 01 2013 01:24 FiveTouch wrote: So you want to lynch yamato despite what's just been discussed about the masons? Right now, yeah. I'll look around, but we can't definitively say "everyone who is leftover and a mason cannot be mafia." | ||
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On February 01 2013 01:37 yamato77 wrote: Mocsta would have died N1 if I was mafia. I knew he was mason with Chez like me D1, FT has the logs. Unless you've got a history somewhere of blowing up masons whenever you can, this doesn't really do anything. Mafia already knew mocsta was a mason, because Chez himself was mafia. Your being mafia and knowing he was a mason wouldn't have changed their knowledge, and would have only mattered in the way you want it to here if you were some kind of super anti-mason zealot as mafia. | ||
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On February 01 2013 01:57 FiveTouch wrote: Yeah. I'll admit to not hitting his mason post yesterday actually, and he looks better in light of that.It just seems that for someone who likes maths and logic like you, it's odd that you want to kill yamato, which would mean a) mafia had 4 masons to town's 3, and b) yamato as this extra mason on his own decided to mason people unlike the plan laid out by the rest of the team (apparently) I do loves me the maths, but something about how he had vastly different reads all based on similar actions bugged me, as did the way he was responding. I guess I pull back and elsewhere, just hate the way he defended himself against pressure. Masoning chez is a bigger deal to me (in terms of him not being mafia) than the numbers, just because town looks to have a sizeable number of blues, even disregarding the masons. | ||
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Grush would mean the same mason split, and mocsta seemed to move around a bit last night cycle, but one of the things that pops out of his filter was him picking up on that line in his chat with Chez and how Chez seemed to have info that the thread didn't. I haven't seen anything yet. Yamato did you tell Chez that Grush had masoned you or had a townread on you or anything? | ||
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JX suspicious of debears D1. mocsta doesn't give me much of anything other than that question about Chez popping out. So doesn't appear to be any real common thread among the NKs, was hoping djodref and JX shared some kind of off-the-wall read. Gonzaw and Axle as mafia probably rule out oats. Gonzaw both wanted to lynch oats D1 and oats posted some followup case bits on Gonzaw, specifically referencing the way gonzaw and axle interacted D1. If oats were scum, he'd be pointing out Gonzaw/Axle's interactions, and would basically have been...he'd have been the fall guy to make Gonzaw and prplhz look good I guess? Gonzaw lynches oats if mayor, flips scum, gets to say he killed scum AND prplhz looks slightly better because the non-prplhz option flipped scum. Still looking around for a non-yamato lynch i like. | ||
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On February 01 2013 05:35 grush57 wrote: I can probably offer drunken PMs, if that's your thing.Also who wants to get masoned tomorrow? | ||
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On February 01 2013 05:40 Toadesstern wrote: nah already in 2 and a half hour. Am tired You really should just wait. | ||
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On February 01 2013 05:48 Toadesstern wrote: you have a problem with that? We have 2 lynches tomorrow and I'm almost a 100% certain on this one. There's no way mafia is going to do that. Actually I'm going to tell you to policy lynch Vivax as secondary lynch to teach him a lesson for good :p There's nothing to be gained. The plus in telling us early is that you can't die with us not knowing your target, but that's not an option in this game. Lessening the that scum plays mind games, especially given that they MAY have done so earlier with the BKE jail, is worth something. | ||
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On February 01 2013 10:10 FiveTouch wrote: Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan.Stop trolling. We kill annul. austin is kinda tempting because he deserves to be lynched for being wrong the whole game and not submitting to me. On January 20 2013 21:36 FiveTouch wrote: ##Vote: austinmcc | ||
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Even if (2) were true, no reason to be giving out town checks either. I don't superlove the idea of Vivax as the last remaining mafia. We're down to 10/1 as far as I can tell, and either win today or go to 8/1. Worth getting another check in and lynching him later if we haven't won, imo, because the more checks the better. Grrrrr. + Show Spoiler + the point of that quote is that I don't think I've ever been THIS wrong before, all game, about everything. You've also never voted me for mayor. It's possible that the vote caused this. Just maybe. | ||
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But the "confirmed townie" list isn't as large as you're making it. | ||
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On February 01 2013 23:13 mkfuba07 wrote: It means austin is scum. There's a check on me and even if the remaining mafia is a framer he can't frame himself. So either I'm town or I'm scum and Vivax is just lying that he checked me last night. Also, in this scenario, Vivax has to be town. So he's a townie just lying about his check for no reason. That is what you are saying. | ||
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On February 01 2013 23:19 Toadesstern wrote: I'm trying to make it sound as ridiculous as it is.Don't make it sound like that never happened before. May I remind you of BC's Arkham City in which someone fakeclaimed DT as a townie and then fakeclaimed a redcheck on a modconfirmed (literally (!) modconfirmed) blue guy d2? Schworz, never forget Anyways I'm off for a while, see you I wasn't around for that game, and it's so long that it is one of the ones I never reread. Yes, it's a possible thing, but the bolded sentence is actually what would have to be happening if there's no third GF. | ||
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On February 01 2013 23:35 Vivax wrote: I'd lynch annul for not claiming the RB and implying that Toad could be mafia still. On February 01 2013 23:23 Toadesstern wrote: I have the jail The jail was not used. There was no RB. | ||
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Everything right now is circumstantial, and we're not yet at a point where mafia FT puts us at endgame, but we need to be aware of that. It's one explanation for why a claimed cop has been left alive - neither of you can be checked, so part of the risk to mafia of an active cop is gone. It's one explanation for why Gonzaw didn't get pushed over the top into an elected position - mafia already had one of the spots (For all the talk about what would/wouldn't have looked suspicious, they could have voted him harder earlier on, it's not like they HAD to last-minute vote like Chez did). | ||
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On February 02 2013 00:42 FiveTouch wrote: I held it in this long! I've only been internally paranoid, and i DON'T want to lynch into you guys yet.We need to have some words after the game, austin dearest. You've got to admit that you're not afraid to bus teammates. You've got to admit that an elected position provides cover from the policy lynches you've been receiving - mafia would have had to expend a lot more than normal to kill you early. You have ridden town cred to scum victory before, being right in your reads. | ||
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On February 02 2013 00:53 FiveTouch wrote: Yes, but it's retarded. Just look at my play. The same argument I made for Toad being town could have been made for me, by the way. As Axle's team-mate obviously I tell him to claim medic... By the way, Given 3/5 of the mafia were on gonzaw, looks like they were trying pretty hard to get gonzaw into a position. Chez's vote doesn't much count imo. If it made a difference, then it would be trying hard to get gonzaw into an elected position. But since it was a last minute vote that changed NOTHING, it's not really an attempt to get Gonzaw elected. Realistically, Gonzaw and one other mafia for voted Gonzaw, and another mafia, for whatever reason, threw his vote away last minute. His candidacy just sort of sat stagnant for most of D1. I'd disagree that it's retarded to say, "These guys have played townishly all game, so they are probably town. However, there is still the CHANCE that one of them is mafia, and it would explain some of the weirdness of the NKs/cop being around." Any "Well I could have done x scummier thing" argument is meaningless, because everyone KNOWS you guys have looked town. The chance that you guys have to be scum is almost entirely predicated on you NOT doing the scummiest things all the time, you just bus teammates and ride uncheckability + townieness to the win. Axle being alive wasn't worth any KP to the scum team, so if the plan involves making it to lategame on town cred, there's not actually much to be lost in killing him. | ||
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On February 02 2013 01:12 Toadesstern wrote: It's weird, and he certainly played disruptive for a lot of the game, but there's no need to fire into him today.that seems so weird. Why would you not be able to do that... I'd say it's rather because people just aren't able to figure out their own different styles in the first place but whatever, trusting you on this one. Annul + fuba, or Annul + oats, or fuba + oat? With me hinting at I want to keep oats around for 1 or 2 more days to see if mafia shoots him there's clearly no reason to do that anymore because mafia knows about that as well as I was forced to explain my reasoning, so wouldn't mind lynching into oats as much as I was 2 or 3 hours ago... Still not sure what to make of Vivax and I'm not only talking about the possibility of him being mafia. He got us a red check on d1 when a lot of people mentioned gonzaw being a good target for the d2 lynch way before he mentioned it. It might have been a bus after all, especially considering his choice of targets afterwards... bugs, debears, austin, all 3 people who conveniently either died before his check got in or already claimed. It's the perfect oder to "check" people as mafia fakeclaimer. He could have EASILY proven to be a town DT by checking someone who hasn't claimed yet but didn't do so. If he's not mafia himself it is REALLY weird that he's still around. Why would mafia leave him alive? I just don't see them shooting people like Yamato instead of Vivax unless it's really a 3GF-setup, which would be bullshit. He's a check a day if he's town, big positive, and we'll kill him in a cycle or two before LYLO hits if he's scum, just to be sure. I'd also disagree that he could have checked people who haven't claimed for magical confirmation, because it seems ALMOST certain that all our roles are outed at this point. No matter who he chooses, he just says they check out vanilla if they haven't claimed, and is probably correct. | ||
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On February 02 2013 03:10 mkfuba07 wrote: The remaining scum isn't afraid of a DT. They found a mason who was tunneling austin to be a more important NK. What does that mean to you? THE TUNNELING. IT BURNS ME On January 31 2013 11:11 yamato77 wrote: You're less likely mafia after the flip, but not completely off the hook. At this point, with the people I'm looking at, it's a scum grading system, and grush just jumped to the top. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On February 02 2013 05:46 mkfuba07 wrote: You expect me to believe yamato wasn't still suspicious of you? As scum, he was your biggest threat, though I don't even know how he came to the conclusion that you were less scummy at that point. The flip just confirmed that your scumbuddy did exactly what you were trying to persuade townies to do: vote for chez, and then vote for gonzaw. It's telling that you picked up on the only part of my argument that I knew could be contested though. It means you know it too. Quiz Time: Can anyone tell me who else responded to one of my good posts while commenting on only the least important aspects of it? + Show Spoiler + On January 30 2013 15:25 AxleGreaser wrote: + Show Spoiler + On January 30 2013 14:22 mkfuba07 wrote: Annul The town annul explanation is far more feasible. I'm about 95% more inclined to believe that town annul had a significant oversight and had trouble explaining himself than I am to believe that scum annul risked his life quite blatantly to save someone who ultimately was likely going to be lynched anyway. Without commenting on the accuracy or presence or lack of holes in your argument. Why did you make it, or more specifically why did you post it in the thread? On January 30 2013 15:30 AxleGreaser wrote: Why has it been doing that.... ? Ahh because you are currently not voting for your top scum read... " If I had to say who I feel most likely to flip scum at the moment, I would say austin. " If austin is town, he's played literally the most unfortunate game of mafia ever. His actions D1 fit perfectly into what we now know to be the scum goals. 100% perfectly! The votes right now are based solely on setup speculation. If three godfathers wasn't unlikely, every single person would be voting for austin based on his D1 alone. I don't even know how to explain anymore how perfectly he fits the scumteam. At least when I sheep I've thought about it long and hard. Those single posts take me hours to write because I keep going back through filters, seeing what fits and what doesn't. Half of the time I just delete the whole thing because I decide it's wrong or inconclusive, and I start over. It's probably not the best method of playing mafia because it doesn't give me a very strong town presence, but I put the effort in. This sheeping from town just feels lazy. Marv is really good, I know. That's why I sheep him anytime we're in a game together. But he's not infallible (BKE, me, most likely oats), and I haven't seen a reason to set oats and I above austin on his scumdar. He's just decided to lynch up the list, and as I've already said, that will lose us the game. Why not just lynch scum? No, I'm simply pointing out that you're a bit blinded. You said earlier He killed yamato because yamato was the only one strongly opposing him. I was showing you that yamato had backed off. You're distorting the situation because you either think I'm scum or want to get me mislynched.Like when you say As scum, [Yamato] was your biggest threat WHAT!?!?!?!? Look at what you are saying. There is one scum left. There is a mayor with three votes, there is a jail left, there is an active DT, there are two bodyguards. Not only am I not scum, but if I were, yamato wouldn't have been "the biggest threat." (Even in magical 3-GF land, having two invulnerable townies, one of whom can triple vote, which is the world you're pushing, is kind of a bigger deal).Look at your other statements: every single person would be voting for austin based on his D1 alone This is false (I know I wouldn't be voting for me). Moreover, it's silly. That statement amounts to, "If we didn't have all the information we do, everyone would be voting for austin." We DO have more than D1. We SHOULD be looking at more than D1. The only thing holding the votes back is his claim Go read the pages where I first got suspicified. Suspicions --> others saying "no, he's town" --> suspicions --> claim. You're again distorting things to fit this idea that I'm scum. At no point has anyone ever said that they weren't voting me because I claimed vet (afaik). They're not voting me because (a) they think I'm town and/or (b) vivax checked me.His actions D1 fit perfectly into what we now know to be the scum goals. The scum goals of...what? Not getting any mafia elected? I actually really want to know what these "scum goals" were. Because so far, no mafia has flipped and said "Hey town, here were our goals this game." So what are these goals, besides "Win", and how did my play fit into them? You are missing the forest AND the trees. Some of what you are saying is straight up wrong, because you're overlooking posts or overlooking the specific times at which things happened. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On February 02 2013 06:13 FiveTouch wrote: Not unfortunate; bad. Mostly bad. Some slight misfortune imo in terms of D1. Chez being mafia makes me thinking he shouldn't be dismissed as a mayoral candidate look bad, whereas it wouldn't if he'd been town. Hmmm, nope, most of the rest of the stuff is actual badness. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On February 02 2013 06:16 FiveTouch wrote: Then I'd look more dumb and less scummy. And also scum would have known he were town and probably wouldn't have wanted him mayor. This just shows that you still haven't grasped the error of your thinking. Electing Chezinu is bad because you can't get a solid read on him day 1. The fact he flips mafia merely proved it in this case; if he flipped town the principle would have stood just the same. Whatever, I've played bad. I'll shutup about that point. | ||
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