EPTjust in case you haven't seen it.
Newbie Mini Mafia XXXV
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Mandalor
Germany2362 Posts
just in case you haven't seen it. | ||
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1m needed. Tell your friends! | ||
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[green]Can we pleaaaaase plz plz with sugar on top move the hours a little? I'm used to shitty hours for euros in mafia games, but 5am really is too crazy even for me. NMMXXXIV and XXXIII were okay with lynch times at 2am. | ||
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EBWOP: Can we pleaaaaase plz plz with sugar on top move the hours a little? I'm used to shitty hours for euros in mafia games, but 5am really is too crazy even for me. NMMXXXIV and XXXIII were okay with lynch times at 2am. I'm not exactly sober. Off to bed now. G'night. | ||
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I'll just answer the questions briefly and promise I'll be more active tomorrow. 1) No, not a fan of policy lynching. It doesn't give us any information whatsoever. Even if we lynch a townie D1, we have a list of people who voted for him and we have people defending or accusing the guy. Looking for scum should be our top priority, always. I would only favor a lurker lynch if we can not come up with a good case. 2) That said, after observing the past two newbie games, I feel that the quiet guys are more likely to be scum. We'll have to pressure them to help us. I am yet to see a very outspoken scum player orchestrating town play in a newbie game. We should keep an eye open for players with low post count and most importantly a low amount of quality posts, wishy-washy reads ("maybe, perhaps, in theory he could maybe be scum") and zero own cases. | ||
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I don't have any strong reads on anybody so far, but this may be useful for some of you. Mocsta After observing the last two newbie games, I am a little afraid of a scum mocsta. In fact, in Newbie XXXIII I had a strong scum read on him - mostly because, while he contributed a lot, his posts consisted of mostly questions to others. He wrote down very few own reads. His meta so far looks like his XXXIV game, which is a little odd because he said he'd switch things up a little before the game started. He might try to copy his last meta to look town. So far, however, I get a town vibe from his play, but I'll be looking at him more closely. Oats Very agressive stance towards Mocsta. While I disagree with his read on Mocsta, he looks like a very agressive townie. I don't think being the first to attack one of the most vocal players is typical scum behavior. laguerta One of my strongest scum reads so far, which doesn't say a lot. In my first post after the game started, I said I'd look for quiet players with very few quality posts for Day 1. And laguerta is a prime example for this. Just take a look at his filter. Sn0_Man Weird behavior so far. He was _very_ active before the game started and then vanished from the thread. Lots of questions about the SK and then he disappeared. He has some posts after the game started (and I know that this is my second post btw), but other than this post + Show Spoiler + On January 12 2013 14:22 Sn0_Man wrote: I'm not denying, discussion is good/important and if nobody starts it scum autowin. However, if a scum can get control of town fast, they almost instawin. As a gambit, it seems fair since people like you are jumping in to defend him pretty fast. Plus, the use of the word "us" is a pretty ingratiating town claim to make in your first post (if town thinks of mocsta as "us" then he is pretty happy). Either way, that post felt like the opening gambit of a scum whose plan was to utterly control town. Obviously there are other ways to read it, I'm not voting mocsta here (yet). Additionally, the way the 2nd question is asked almost makes me think he is asking "Tell me your scumhunting plans so that I know what you are thinking about and what I can avoid". My 2c not a whole lot of contribution. I would like to ask you to post more. I like the quoted post, but I'd love to hear more of you. So far: null read. Trotske My other top candidate for voting so far. No read from him at all other than his opinion on sn0_man's and Oatsmaster's behavior (which Mocsta asked him to provide). Please give us something to work with, otherwise I'll vote for either you or laguerta. ------- I know this is a newbie game and quiet is not automatically = scum, but you're making it easy for scum to lay low if you don't contribute. laguerta and Trotske, please take your time and give us some reads. Who are your top scum reads so far, and why? | ||
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What's confusing you? Talk to us. Your reads don't have to be bulletproof. I don't think we'll come up with a bulletproof case on Day1 anyway, but any read you can provide will ultimately help town - no matter which role you got. Just look at a couple of filters and write down your thoughts. | ||
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On January 13 2013 23:39 Mocsta wrote: Good question. I have 3 goals for this game. (1) Reduce tunneling / confirmation bias - i.e. try to be more open to reason regarding posters motivations (2) Stop assuming association cases; target one mafia and focus on that guy till cleared innocent or proven guilty. (3) Try and engage lurkers. Im still working out the best way to do this. I had a strategy last game that didn't work. This game i hope that asking them direct questions will elicit a response. Thats how I plan to play differently. I think (2) is going good so far. (3) hopefully my next post will address. and as for (1).. please pass on some constructive feedback. Do you think I was confirmation biased in regards to Oatsmaster, or do you think I raise valid points of concern? I know you're talking to zebezt, but I'd like to answer this. I think you're very much confirmation biased. I think Oats' agressive behavior didn't exactly help, but do you really think this is standard mafia behavior? Scum likes to make buddies with the most vocal players, not attack them right away. I don't understand your vote on him at all. In fact, I feel like you both went for an OMGUS. | ||
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On January 13 2013 23:58 Mocsta wrote:
(1) I think I just did that. Apart from the extreme lurkers (acid and glurio), I feel like laguerta and Trotske are flying under the radar right now and asked them to contribute. (2) I know it takes some time to make such a post you just did and view this as an outdated question. (3) Typical newbie scum behavior is: * Flat out lurking (not necessarily a behavior reserved for the scum players only tho) * Not posting a lot, giving barely any reads on other players * Buddying up with the strong town players I never said this is the ONLY possible way to play as scum, but it seems to be the most common way to do it after I observed the last two games. I advocate going for the easy targets first. We might have a really good scum player in the game, but most of them will show characteristic scum traits and I feel like that's what we should focus on for now. Afterall, we're working with a very limited amount of information so far. | ||
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On January 14 2013 00:14 Mocsta wrote: + Show Spoiler + On January 13 2013 23:30 Mandalor wrote: I'm going to write down my thoughts on a couple of people. I don't have any strong reads on anybody so far, but this may be useful for some of you. + Show Spoiler + Mocsta After observing the last two newbie games, I am a little afraid of a scum mocsta. In fact, in Newbie XXXIII I had a strong scum read on him - mostly because, while he contributed a lot, his posts consisted of mostly questions to others. He wrote down very few own reads. His meta so far looks like his XXXIV game, which is a little odd because he said he'd switch things up a little before the game started. He might try to copy his last meta to look town. So far, however, I get a town vibe from his play, but I'll be looking at him more closely. Oats Very agressive stance towards Mocsta. While I disagree with his read on Mocsta, he looks like a very agressive townie. I don't think being the first to attack one of the most vocal players is typical scum behavior. laguerta One of my strongest scum reads so far, which doesn't say a lot. In my first post after the game started, I said I'd look for quiet players with very few quality posts for Day 1. And laguerta is a prime example for this. Just take a look at his filter. Sn0_Man Weird behavior so far. He was _very_ active before the game started and then vanished from the thread. Lots of questions about the SK and then he disappeared. He has some posts after the game started (and I know that this is my second post btw), but other than this post + Show Spoiler + On January 12 2013 14:22 Sn0_Man wrote: I'm not denying, discussion is good/important and if nobody starts it scum autowin. However, if a scum can get control of town fast, they almost instawin. As a gambit, it seems fair since people like you are jumping in to defend him pretty fast. Plus, the use of the word "us" is a pretty ingratiating town claim to make in your first post (if town thinks of mocsta as "us" then he is pretty happy). Either way, that post felt like the opening gambit of a scum whose plan was to utterly control town. Obviously there are other ways to read it, I'm not voting mocsta here (yet). Additionally, the way the 2nd question is asked almost makes me think he is asking "Tell me your scumhunting plans so that I know what you are thinking about and what I can avoid". My 2c not a whole lot of contribution. I would like to ask you to post more. I like the quoted post, but I'd love to hear more of you. So far: null read. Trotske My other top candidate for voting so far. No read from him at all other than his opinion on sn0_man's and Oatsmaster's behavior (which Mocsta asked him to provide). Please give us something to work with, otherwise I'll vote for either you or laguerta. ------- I know this is a newbie game and quiet is not automatically = scum, but you're making it easy for scum to lay low if you don't contribute. laguerta and Trotske, please take your time and give us some reads. Who are your top scum reads so far, and why? Mandalor, thank you for taking the time to go through the filters and contribute your thoughts. This is a good choice from a Day1 lurker. I have some concerns with your post, (1) Early-Game: It is not a good play to discuss town reads. If you want some reasoning, here it is. [Toadestern] See the thing is, ... it is INCREDIBLY hard to tell a townie who's posting a townread apart from a mafia who's posting a townread while both may look like something useful (it's not). A townread is best kept to yourself, especially early on. 1. There's no reason to tell people what the key to making you think someone is town is. 2. There's no reason to tell mafia (if you're town) who you consider to be a likely townie is. 3. There's no reason to tell anybody why you think someone is town at all, unless said person is about to be lynched. On top of that, it is incredibly easy for mafia to look like they're doing something by posting townreads. They know they're right on something, they don't have to make up bullshit, which they have to when they're doing scumreads unless they're bussing. They can get in the thread make 4 townreads about someone, mix in 2 mafiabuddies and tell people they're mafia as well and there's almost no way to distinguish that from a townie. I mean there is, but it's just WAY hader than by looking at peoples mafiareads because again, mafia have to make up some bullshit when doing those, they got confirmation bias and already know they're wrong and all that is making it hard for mafias to talk about mafia-reads. Talking about townreads isn't for them, not at all. This is where the problem lies. You see, you have said, you think myself and Oats are town (very easy to do if you had scum knowledge). Then you call out two lurkers as your top scum read. (very easy to do whether you have scum knowledge or not). The problem I have is.. you identify me and Oats as town, but then.. don't give your opinion on what played on. The comments you make, are pretty much out there to be copy/pasted from a filter read. Good scum hunting requires original thought. So far what you have shared is contributions anyone can DO with 20minutes; yet when it comes to the real meat and potatoes, the real content is lacking. You follow by commenting on my "confirmation bias" with Oats, but do not indicate your opinion on Oats. You don't even give detailed reason why you are saying it is confirmation bias. In fact, i would content your reasoning is drowned in confirmation bias. Do you truly think the heuristic On January 13 2013 23:44 Mandalor wrote: is taking a rational approach and considering all options.. if you are town (so far you are null to me) you need to be more open minded to possibilities in my opinion!Scum likes to make buddies with the most vocal players, not attack them right away. Lastly, you finish off by saying its "OMGUS" when we both clearly did not say we were voting each other as OMGUS... I know the above is a wall of text, but I would appreciate if you could take the time to address these concerns on top of the questions I outlined to you on the previous page. I shouldn't publish town reads early in the game? Didn't know that. Noted. I didn't really organise that post. I just opened all the filters and noted my thoughts on what I read on the fly. I don't see myself as some genius playing this game. Of course anybody can do what I just did. In fact, I ask everyone to do that. It will ultimately help town. The reason I am simplifying reads is that this is Day 1. I have never seen a brilliant, active scum player providing quality posts getting caught Day 1 (this is my 7th mafia game, however the first 6 were several years ago which is the reason I am allowed to play this one to get back on track). What I've seen time and time again, tho, is two outspoken town players going at each other Day 1 with one of them getting mislynched and lurking scum players having a party. I'd prefer to not see this happen again. Of course you never said it was an OMGUS. Nobody says that, because it's stupid play. You both attacked each other, resulting in a vote, because you were attacked. That's textbook OMGUS if I understand the mafia wiki entry correctly. I don't quite understand this part of your post: The problem I have is.. you identify me and Oats as town, but then.. don't give your opinion on what played on. The comments you make, are pretty much out there to be copy/pasted from a filter read. Good scum hunting requires original thought. Please elaborate. | ||
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I'm having trouble reading Omni, zarepath, zebezt and shz. I will go over their filters later this day tho. I would like to reserve my vote for now, giving Trotske and laguerta some time. They're still my favorites so far. | ||
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They show standard scum traits: * low quality posts, no reads * lurky, but not to a point where they're completely inactive | ||
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I am in favor of lynching the players that seem to be very clearly scum. I am giving both Trotske and laguerta enough time to change my view on them if they contribute. If I, like you seem to be thinking, would go for targets that are less likely to defend themselves, I would be going after Acid~ or glurio. Both Trotske and laguerta aren't heavy lurkers. They are very likely to respond sometime today and I'm looking forward to that. | ||
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Everybody, except Sylencia, last game showed those traits: low quality posts, no reads * lurky, but not to a point where they're completely inactive I meant everybody as in every scum player. The lurky town players contributed some, albeit not a lot. | ||
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I've told you about what I think is pretty clearly scum behavior. It's not just being a lurker, it's the combination of lurking AND not contributing in the few posts they are making. I don't know what's so hard to understand about this. And I very VERY much disagree with this: We cant use today's lynch very beneficially. | ||
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On January 14 2013 03:04 bringaniga wrote: The following players have not met the word count minimum and must be replaced or terminated in indiscriminate order: Acid~ glurio bringaniga Approximately two hours before the end of day 1, I will submit a vote for whichever of the above three have the most votes at the time. My methods are complex, remember! Players who refuse to participate exponentially compound my uncertainty. So, basically apart from trolling, you want to lynch a lurker which gives us 0 information. I'm not a huge fan of lynching annoying people to get rid of them, but you make a damn good case for it. ##Vote: bringaniga Shape up and I'll change my vote. | ||
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I like your last post, Trotske, but I'd still like to hear your opinion on the other players. Concerning my vote (and I'm sorry I'm using two posts for this): We absolutely need to pressure trolls. This is unacceptable behavior if he's town and he's not going to help us at all if he continues to play like this. I would LOVE if he starts contributing and I'd switch in an instant. Considering there's not much support for my semi-case against laguerta, bringaniga is my best candidate for now. | ||
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On January 14 2013 05:24 Trotske wrote: How do you feel about sn0_man and my case for him. I'm kind of indifferent about him. tbh when I read the last mafia games, I also felt weird about Mocsta's play. He likes to ask lots of questions, which is good (don't get me wrong), but that's pretty much all he did in XXXIII for quite a while and I feel like that's a decent way to get to a lot of posts without giving any reads. Still, it's stupid to attack Mocsta like that this early in the game, but I feel like that would be a really ballsy thing to do as scum that early. It might be a good move tho to try to discredit one of the leading figures of the last games early on. So yeah idk. I need more posts of him and I want him to write down his reads so far. | ||
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##Vote: laguerta Explain your vote. Now. | ||
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On January 14 2013 07:03 Mocsta wrote: Guys im back.. Happy to see at least 2 pages of filter.. but overall.. conversation was down to what it should have been! Guys we need to step up.. im talking to you lurkers!! I have had a change in heart. ##UNVOTE:Sn0_Man ##Vote: Mandalor This guy is spouting so much crap its not funny. + Show Spoiler + On January 14 2013 05:33 Mandalor wrote: I also felt weird about Mocsta's play. He likes to ask lots of questions, which is good (don't get me wrong), but that's pretty much all he did in XXXIII for quite a while I need more posts of him and I want him to write down his reads so far. I have given my reads in spades.. he doubts my contributions, but look at his half-attempts as I list below. (My reads are via the qusetions I choose to pressure with) and the cases I choose to make. I do not put my vote lightly ever. On January 14 2013 00:14 Mandalor wrote: I advocate going for the easy targets first. We might have a really good scum player in the game, but most of them will show characteristic scum traits and I feel like that's what we should focus on for now. On January 14 2013 00:50 Mandalor wrote: Easy targets are more likely to flip scum. Everybody, except Sylencia, last game showed those traits. There is no reason for me to think that all scum players in this game are geniusses. This is all rubbish... this game has approximately 6 or 7 lurkers... that means if all 3 mafia are there... you have 3/7 chance to lynch mafia, and 4/7 chance to lynch scum.... if 6 players is 50/50.. why take this risk (unless you dont care because your two listed are town!) On January 14 2013 01:10 Mandalor wrote: But I'm thinking town is going to lynch Trotske or laguerta? Noone ever mentioned any suspicions on them except for me afaik. ] So because you raise 2 lurkers.. town should lynch them.. What type of thought process is this.. SCum hunting is more than picking 2 names out of a hat.. you need to question them.. Try and prove them innocent (there is a higher likelihood any player is town).. if the act funny.. push them harder (like I am about to do to you) On January 14 2013 05:12 Mandalor wrote: So, basically apart from trolling, you want to lynch a lurker which gives us 0 information. I'm not a huge fan of lynching annoying people to get rid of them, but you make a damn good case for it. ##Vote: bringaniga Shape up and I'll change my vote. Finishes by Giving up on his 2 reads he pushed so far and joining the bandwagon.. what type of serious town play is this . it reads all to me as a guy who doesnt care who the vote goes on.
Yes I voted for Sn0_Man.. and I still don't like him... but... I thought as town we were meant to vote not for a lurker.. [b]but for our best scum read. Can you tell me that the points im making are confirmation biased? Can you tell me that the points Im making do not suggest scum motivations? Any town player can make his points.. but.. why would they? Hes trying to looking like contributing.. but is he rerally contributing You misunderstood a LOT of the stuff I said. Maybe I wasn't clear, maybe it's language barrier idk. * Your play in XXXIII looked weird to me, not this one. I thought you lived longer in XXXIII, but I never claimed you were around all game? No idea where you got that from. But I guess I should've reread that game. * I was trying to look for stuff that could've triggered a town Sn0_Man to attack you. We all agreed that we should evaluate cases, argue for and against them. That's what I did. * How am I not pressuring my reads? What more am I supposed to do? I was waiting for Trotske to contribute. He looks a lot better for now, tho I would still like some more info. And I voted for laguerta. Yes I should have voted for him before anyone else did. But then you or oats or whoever would then claim how I waste my vote on a lurker noone will vote and how that is scummy. * I did not question you why original contest is useful. Stop putting words in my mouth. I was asking you what you meant with that entire paragraph, because I had (and still have) issues understanding it. I provided cases on players noone published a read on. How exactly is that not original content? * Again, I said you didn't post your reads in XXXIII. Apparently you died early so it kinda makes sense. I never said you don't post your reads in this game. * How am I supposed to push them more? Threaten their families? GO VOTE FOR LAGUERTA, THERE'S AN EASY SCUM TARGET RIGHT THERE. * Trotske made a decent post. His case is alright and it looked like decent contribution. You don't think so? * It was a pressure vote. And it worked, he let go of his stupid troll behavior after my vote. * And if it is so that I go for bandwagoning, explain my laguerta vote. I am the only one to vote for him. | ||
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If I happen to die, I just have one wish: Don't go after the loud players too early. Yes, there might be outspoken scum players in the game, but there are most likely more quiet scum players. Don't cannibalize (Mocsta's words). There is a point in the game where you can go for the louder people. But the fact that they're outspoken means you'll have a lot more to work with later in the game. Good night everybody. | ||
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On January 14 2013 08:21 Oatsmaster wrote: [/spoiler]Mandalor, what changed from earlier? You were not even close to active this time of the day yesterday. So, basically apart from trolling, you want to lynch a lurker which gives us 0 information. Umm you want to lynch a lurker too, laguerta.. ##Unvote ##Vote: Mandalor You too [spolier] ##Unvote ##Vote: laguerta Explain your vote. Now. I slept through the day yesterday. I said that earlier. I was at a friend's birthday party and had way too much alcohol. I'm old and it takes me 3 days to get in good shape again nowadays. Laguerta is not an extreme lurker. He has a couple of posts, all of them with shitty content. I don't understand what else you want me to say? I had an eye on laguerta earlier and now he appears out of nowhere and places a bandwagon vote without any explanation whatsoever. He then excuses himself saying that he's lazy. And I am the one you want to lynch? Seriously? -------- On January 14 2013 08:13 Mocsta wrote: Thanks forthe feedback mandalor. Remember a townie knows he is innocent. Why do u think i can post on the fly. Because im confident i am town and that my actions will speaker louder than my words. Your overly defensive and emotional case defense sits uncomfortably with me. i dont associate your reactions as a townie defense..it reads to me as a last resort post does anyone else feel this way? I.e. Too defensive and emotional to be confident in his alignment? Of course it's a last resort post. It's late, I'm tired. I really reaaaaally need to go to bed and this is all I can say before I might die. And yes, I get veeery emotional when people vote me when I'm town. I'd love if that was not the case, but it is. I don't expect you to read up on my old games, but I was in a similar situation in Mafia LVI when Mattchew accused me and I countered with a really angry post and an OMGUS. So maybe I'm different? But I would expect any townie to get at least a little mad when he's falsely accused. As you know this is not the first game I played. And funny enough I have been suspected early in every game I played so far, no matter my alignment. I joined this newbie game to maybe work with coaches on that. I didn't pm my coach early enough I guess. Okay, that's it. No more F5. It's shutdown time. | ||
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Except for thrawn. That was an unnecessarily cruel death! jkjk gl town | ||
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For a second I thought JSL's weird defense could work  On January 23 2013 22:13 Mocsta wrote: Hey, Im a happy man, you still have the record for getting lynched Day1 in a newbie game. Not an easy accomplishment to achieve I guess heyhey! | ||
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