EPTThis will end well. Hopefully.
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British Empire Mini Mafia
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
This will end well. Hopefully. + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
If the game's starting today, I'll likely be busy for most of the night. Should be around tomorrow though =) | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Before I'm off to fill out some forms in RL land (fun fun fun), I have a post prepared about the instant-lynch mechanic for the town to stew over. P.S. I'm town - woo! Musings on Insta-Lynch The biggest advantage town has in this setup is time. The days have no time-limit, which is of huge advantage to the town if used properly. Since there is no deadline, there are no situations where town is forced to panic for a last-minute lynch. We can take the time to ensure that all lynch decisions we make are calm and calculated. The last thing we want to do is waste a day because of a quick and emotional mislynch. So here are a few policies I favor in instant-lynch games: 1) Days should be a minimum of 72 hours. Ideally even longer. While this seems long, it is to town's advantage to drag things out. Give all the players opportunities to think and post. The last thing we want is a fast, emotional lynch, which is especially disastrous in this setup. 2) Before a "hammer" vote is dropped, every player must comment on the leading candidate(s). One potential drawback of an instant-lynch system is that a player can die without everyone in the thread being present. This policy prevents that, and promotes discussion and information about lynch candidates. 3) Policy-Lynch people being stupid with hammer votes. This is a deterrent against scum getting away with fast, emotional mislynches. If you are going to hammer vote, you better be damn sure you have a calm and collected reason for it. These policies may seem "obvious" and "bland," but they are effective and need a great deal of self-discipline to be effective. I hope you all chose to follow these with me, as I feel that this is the best way to "game" the lynch mechanics towards the town's advantage. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Aaaaaanywho: @ MrZ On January 04 2013 09:37 MrZentor wrote: Also, dragging days out will lead to decreased interest in the game by town, increasing inactivity, and generally making things easier for scum. Days should be 48-72 hours. I completely disagree. We have time, and we should use it. If you're town, you shouldn't have motivation problems finding scum. If we end up going for like 5 days or something, I'd sympathize with this, but 3-4 days is completely standard in every insta-lynch game I've played (atleast on Day 1). Forcing ourselves to abide by some arbitrary lynch deadline is pretty much the worst thing you can do. @ RiseAgain On January 04 2013 09:45 RiseAgain wrote: Oh, good someone spewing banalities already. Also, that post is clearly pre-prepared, which makes it worthless for assessing your alignment. Good job? 1.) Why? Letting days go on interminably is a waste. Towns, more often than not, manage to talk themselves out of good lynches and generally get sidetracked, we need to have a plan for eventually reaching a consensus, if we spend a week talking, people will lose interest and focus, there's a reason days last 48 hours usually. I'm fine with running 72 hours, I'm not fine with us stalemating stupidly. 2.) I have a better proposal. Consider the guy taking the hammer vote the same as a day vigi and act on his "shot" accordingly, sometimes (most times) extended discussion is called for. Sometimes heroic shots are called for. Judge on actions. 3.) Policy Lynches are stupid, because town never follows up on them. We can claim we want to policy lynch people hammering stupidly, but you know we won't. There are way too many people who value their opinion over the common good, so time spent discussing policy lynches is... wasted time. Judge people based on their actions, nothing more, nothing less. 4) What your post is doing is detracting from something we should be doing, setup-analysis, this setup has a very clear town slant with the proper play. I already know what it is, three townie points to the first person to propose it, if no one has come up with it in the next... 12-24 hours I'll explain it, after all, we have time. 1) I'm not suggesting a "stalemate." I'm suggesting we make sure that we take enough time to consider a Day 1 lynch since the setup allows us to do so. 2) Such votes aren't "heroics." Such votes are pure stupidity and should be treated as such. I will not have this game devolve into russian roulette just because some idiot decides to play herio. 3) You're welcome to follow it or not. I however will. 4) Well I've co-hosted this setup and have played it as town (and won). There's no fancy plan that I'm aware of, though I look forward to what you propose. Also Rise, I haven't seen you around these parts, but it seems like you've played mafia before. Can you give us a summary of your game-history (how many you've played, where you've played, etc)? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On January 04 2013 10:10 RiseAgain wrote: 01.) Stalemates are going to happen. I want to hear what you want to do when we are 4-4 on a candidate. Are you going to make someone hammer? What if no one agrees? Should someone hammer something they don't agree on to move on? 2 + 3.) Read any all day vigilante game ever. You won't stop this from happening by threatening to policy lynch, or by pointing out the obvious "its stupid", in fact, arguing over this is a great excuse for mafia to blend in by agreeing with pointless ideas. You can only tell people that you will judge their actions for what they are. That will stop the mafia more than any unenforceable "policy lynch". Either way, this is a waste of breath, you can want a policy lynch as much as you want, but when the harsh reality of "he was almost certainly a stupid town" or even "we aren't sure as to his alignment, but another myslynch puts at lylo" is staring you in the face, I very much doubt we'll lynch the "hero", no matter how stupid his hammer. I'm done arguing this point though, feel free to rebut me and then lets agree to move on to other things, although people who have yet to comment are free to chip in. I want to see if you can independently come up with my setup idea though, it should tell me a lot. 1) Sure they're welcome to hammer. I'm just proposing that they have a calm and rational reason for it. I'm trying to prevent crazy emotional mislynch swings, and not natural occurrences of the game. 2) Well we can agree to disagree. *Handshake* No comment as to my history. That is for me to know and for the mafia to fear. No. That's for you to tell me so I can get a read on you. If you're town, your job is to be open and to prove yourself as town. I need to know what you're capable of as town and mafia to get a better read on you. | ||
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Hapahauli
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Hapahauli
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Hapahauli
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Any other thoughts on what Rise and I have discussed over the first pages of the thread? Day length, hammer votes, or anything really. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 04 2013 11:08 MrZentor wrote: Yeah, you have no right to call my comment useless just because you disagree with it. I c u lurkin. I rebutted your "comment", care to respond? Also, is there anything else you can offer to the conversation? There are a couple of more topics floating around than just the issue of day length. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 04 2013 11:09 MrZentor wrote: Especially considering I took a bullet for you last game. -.- Never forget <3 | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 04 2013 10:45 jaybrundage wrote: Well we can rule out Palmar as the smurf. In regards to your idea about the set up. It seems that if we have a parity cop. And then lynch the person the parity cop targeted night one. We would have confirmed towns and confirmed scum easily. As we have no millers or GF's. The only trick would be for the parity cop to push his lynch well with out getting outed. Unless you have some idea for claiming. Is Rise a smurf? He seems to me more like a guy who stumbled upon our parts from mafiascum.net or something. Perhaps I'm wrong. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On January 04 2013 11:21 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Either way it doesn't matter, just another face I don't know. Easier to judge based on face value, without all the meta behind it. Well I'd interpret him withholding his game history a lot differently if he was a smurf. And looking at his profile... yeah he's a smurf. 'doh. British flag and whatnot. | ||
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Hapahauli
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So if I could clarify your stance a bit: do you object to days going longer than 72 hours period? | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 04 2013 11:56 ShiaoPi wrote: sup! Hai Shaio! You're always generally lurky until the endgame as either alignment. Can you like... not do that this game? | ||
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Hapahauli
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"Banalities" aside, we do need to start Day 1 somewhere, and coming in to criticize the first post of the game looks more like someone picking a fight for the sake of picking a fight rather than someone who has the best interests of the town at heart. | ||
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Hapahauli
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Hapahauli
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Firstly, you seem to say that my initial post is scummy because... someone else did it in Parallel Mini Then, it's not scummy coming from me because of my performance in ... IRC mafia? wat. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
You around? Talk to me about this Yamato stuff. It seems super forced, has really strange logic, and I think it's scummy. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 04 2013 16:41 yamato77 wrote: I'm not sure how the logic is strange. You told me it was difficult to think in IRC because there was no time. You advocate making longer, more thought out decisions in this game because of the instant lynch mechanic. I don't know why you guys think this is a big deal. Because you're making decisions on a completely irrelevant things. Firstly, you seem to think that my first post is scummy because a mafia posted a policy post in Parallel Mafia? The hell? That makes zero sense. Secondly, my performance in IRC mafia has nothing to do with forum mafia. In fact my forum mafia play is highlighted by activity and split-decision making. Lastly, you came in to comment on something, and drew absolutely no conclusions from it. "Eh I think this post is scummy, but maybe not since Hapa is bad at IRC mafia." It reads like you felt obligated to comment on something rather than a genuine thought. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 04 2013 16:50 yamato77 wrote: Well I've never played with you before in forum mafia so I used my only prior knowledge, IRC mafia, and applied it. My bad. I didn't know you were so touchy about the subject. My feelings are hurt damn you! But in all seriousness, I really couldn't care less about IRC mafia. I do care when someone does something scummy, and you've done exactly that. Also, a response beyond "eh this is no big deal" and "feelings=hurt" would be appreciated. For starters, why did you think my initial post was scummy in its own merits? Secondly, do you agree/disagree with my post/policy/whatever? | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 04 2013 17:01 yamato77 wrote: Well like I said, the first post in Parallel was from Mementoss and I immediately did not like it. It was really setup focused and said a lot of nothing. He turned out to be scum. My opinion on the matter overall is that focus on the setup is a scummy trait. Thaaaaank you. So in light of this, what do you make of Rise's stuff then? He's been pretty openly trying to play the setup-speculation game early on, and I'm surprised you haven't commented on it at all given your stance here. Your post this game had a similar feel to me, and as others have said contrived posts are not something to be liked. However, I knew your experience in IRC and thought I made a meaningful connection to why you made the post. My conclusion was not that you were scummy, it is that you're townie. You say it in a long winded way, but basically you want town to act rationally because you want to lynch people who hammer a townie with little explanation, because that is a scummy play. Again, I draw conclusions to IRC where people hammered townies all the time and the hammerer was lynched really often, but they were often town as well. You want to eliminate this problem, to separate the townies lynching an honest scum read from the scum lynching a townie. Cool. So do you agree/disagree with my stance on things? | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 04 2013 17:10 yamato77 wrote: I agree, the hammer vote should definitely be looked at. With that in mind, I'm not sure why CC says this: Why does CC not want us to put emphasis on the hammer vote? It is prime opportunity for differentiating scum from town yet he thinks it isn't? Regarding the bolded, in what way would you say it is a "prime opportunity [to] differentiate" alignments? Give me some examples. Also, I think you're just shoving words in CC's mouth. He's saying that we shouldn't shift disproportionate responsibility on the person who hammers on a lynch, and I don't see what's wrong about that statement. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 04 2013 17:32 yamato77 wrote: What is disproportionate responsibility? I think there's plenty of reason to give the hammer more look than other votes. It is the act of making the decision to lynch someone, it makes the player into the executioner. The use of the hammer vote is perhaps the most important thing in this game. You said so yourself and now you seem to disagree with me? Why? In one sense yes, and another sense no. If someone makes an idiotic hammer vote, I will put that player under a lot of scrutiny. However, a normal, responsible hammer vote is just the same as all the other votes on a wagon in my view. | ||
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Hapahauli
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1) Shaio's post about RiseAgain's "overagressiveness" http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=5#84 2) Yamato's strange town-read on myself: On January 04 2013 17:01 yamato77 wrote: Well like I said, the first post in Parallel was from Mementoss and I immediately did not like it. It was really setup focused and said a lot of nothing. He turned out to be scum. My opinion on the matter overall is that focus on the setup is a scummy trait. Your post this game had a similar feel to me, and as others have said contrived posts are not something to be liked. However, I knew your experience in IRC and thought I made a meaningful connection to why you made the post. My conclusion was not that you were scummy, it is that you're townie. You say it in a long winded way, but basically you want town to act rationally because you want to lynch people who hammer a townie with little explanation, because that is a scummy play. Again, I draw conclusions to IRC where people hammered townies all the time and the hammerer was lynched really often, but they were often town as well. You want to eliminate this problem, to separate the townies lynching an honest scum read from the scum lynching a townie. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 05 2013 05:53 DarthPunk wrote: well. I expected to wake up to a hell of a lot more posts than two. Ugh. There is nothing really to go off yet. All this arguing over set-up only servers to obfuscate reads on things. Hapa. You keep asking about our views on Riseagain and the 'aggressiveness' he showed. How does him being aggressive make him scum? How does yamato attempting to show his thought process and his follow up from your pressure of him read to you? Regarding Rise - aggression isn't a scummy trait by any means. However, it reads like Rise is trying to pick a fight for the sake of it rather than anything else. That's potentially scummy. Because it's a strange town-read, and I'm trying to figure out if it's artificial or not. The guy finds setup-speculation scummy in general, then 180's on it because of my tendencies in IRC mafia? It's nonsensical. So what do you think about all this then? | ||
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Hapahauli
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As for why I'm tunneling, I have two options: 1) I can sit here and derp around waiting for someone to do something. Clearly this is not happening this game. 2) I can try to make conversation on something I find off in the thread to get things going. I always lean towards option 2. This is why I pursue things early and aggressively early in the game. They may or may not stick (i.e. my case on you in Witchcraft Mini), but it's an important part of the process. | ||
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Hapahauli
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And once again I am wondering how the fuck a town hapa is not reaching the same conclusions as myself and is pushing the wagons of two people who are null at worst. This deserves special mention, because it's night and day from your early-game in Witchcraft Mini. You were willing to jump on people for random, inconsequential things in order to create discussion. This statement is the exact opposite - you're finding things null and keeping an arms-length separation from the thread. What's up DP? Also, you called me "town hapa." Hehe. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 05 2013 06:36 DarthPunk wrote: well I would hardly call that post tunnelling. In fact that reaction is just plain weird. So what you are saying is that you are deliberately acting scummier than usual but that this is what you do every game? Oh that's full of shit and you know it. How am I acting scummier? As far as I'm concerned, I'm the only one here actively trying to start discussion. And what part of my reaction is "weird?" You're dropping words without any reasoning to back it up. The thing that is hurting this game the most right now is lurking. So why are you not saying anything about lurking? In fact the only time you have 'pressured' people is when another player first comments on them. Shiao Pi with Riseagain and myself with Yamato. That's a fantastic idea DarthPunk - let's tunnel people that haven't posted anything less than 24 hours into the game. That will do something useful for discussion. That is quite distinct to what you did in witchcraft for example, which was push people on your own regardless of the positions of others, make a strong case and ask people to judge that on it's merits. The bolded is exactly what I'm doing this game. And the fact that you think I'm scummy because I haven't made a case less than 24 hours into the game with 4 pages of game filter is a level of absurdity I can't begin to comprehend. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 05 2013 06:44 DarthPunk wrote: You know as well as I do that the way I phrased that was not calling you town but in fact suggesting that I could not reconcile your play this game with your town play. So I don't even see the point of that statement. You are talking about djo from last game correct? well firstly that was not pressure voting or attempting to increase activity. That was me thinking Djo was scummy as shit. Lo and behold. he flipped scum bro. You jumped on Djo for setup-speculation. Why haven't you jumped on anyone here for the same? You've just been all "eh fuck it it's all null." The other pressure votes from that game were clearly labelled as such and were consistent with the policy of voting for a lurker until they contributed. This policy was clearly expressed beforehand. So quit trying to OMGUS me with a shitty meta case. Which you KNOW to be untrue. Nah you're being quite different so far. You feel more distant, and it's scummy. You're not jumping on people, and you think the only player who gives two shits about the activity in the thread is "scummy." Day one of witchcraft I derailed the wagon on jixian as I thought he was newbie town/scummy town. from our IRC conversations you know very well my positions on wagons such as these. Based on my positions on Jixian and Eywa. That's a misrepresentation. You really fanned the flames of the wagon until JieXian started being all spammy-like near the lynch deadline. Don't tell me you don't jump on things as town, cause that's a load of shit. | ||
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Hapahauli
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Who the fuck is saying anything about tunnelling? I clearly said pressure. I fucking pressured lurkers all of day one in witchcraft. Okay. So where's your lurker pressure now? You're "pressuring" the most active player in the thread. And I don;t think you are scummy because you haven;t made a case. I didn't say that. I think you are scummy because of the way you are pushing two weak as shit wagons. Which are obviously weak as shit and me not being able to believe that you as town would not see they are weak as shit. ergo you are scummy as we are CLEARLY not sharing a similar mindset about said wagons. "Hapa doesn't agree with me. Therefore he is scummy." Not only is this bad logic in general, but we're talking about early day fucking 1. Also you immediate OMGUS is fucking terrible. Not town play. Not good play. Not town hapa play. LOL. Name me one of my town games in which I don't OMGUS someone. ##Vote DarthPunk Straight-up OMGUS and a sprinkle of gut-feeling. You scum brah. | ||
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Hapahauli
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You've been screaming "lurkers are ruining the game" in our conversation. Your solution? You've never offered a single lurker to the chopping block. Instead, you think the most active player in the game is scummy. That's a complete load of logical shit, and I don't expect that from a town DP. | ||
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You're supposedly very critical of lurkers, yet you've done nothing to pursue said lurking at all. Despite this, you accuse me of not going after lurkers. I love you, but you've been caught with your pants down =) | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 05 2013 05:53 DarthPunk wrote: well. I expected to wake up to a hell of a lot more posts than two. Ugh. There is nothing really to go off yet. All this arguing over set-up only servers to obfuscate reads on things. ... On January 05 2013 06:36 DarthPunk wrote: ... The thing that is hurting this game the most right now is lurking. So why are you not saying anything about lurking? DP is apparently super-concerned with lurkers this game. In fact, he has a well-established history of pressuring lurkers in similar game situations. Witchcraft Mini Mafia had a very similar opening, where town was very inactive for most of Day 1. DarthPunk was very adamant about pursuing players who haven't posted. In his own words: Who the fuck is saying anything about tunnelling? I clearly said pressure. I fucking pressured lurkers all of day one in witchcraft. ... He pressured lurkers all of Day 1 in witchcraft mini mafia (as town). He's done nothing to that end so far, despite his concern. Basically, his "concern" is a front. He's pretending to be concerned about lurkers, and offering much rhetoric to that end. When it comes down to it however, he doesn't give a shit about pressuring them. Instead, he goes after the most active player in the game. As a side note, DarthPunk and I have played many games together. He's very intimately familiar with how I play town. Hilariously enough, everything he's attacking me for this game are signature traits of my town play. Pushing "weak" wagons on Day 1, OMGUS plays... these are all things that I do in every one of my town games. DarthPunk seems to have conveniently "forgot" about our game history for his own ends. | ||
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Hapahauli
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And my case isn't one yet. I haven't even voted for you. But I think you outed yourself pretty nicely in this te ta te. If someone other than Hapa wants me to clarify something or ask me a question then feel free. Bullshit. You've been calling me scum for several posts now, and now you back down? Yeah ok. Then what's all this crap then (below)? All the while I am somehow illogical despite having really solid reasoning and you just ignoring that to serve your OMGUS agenda. Well, that is cool with me HAPA. I don't have to convince you you are scum. I just have to convince the town. And that should be straightforward after this little party we have been having together. | ||
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Hapahauli
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@ DP And my case isn't one yet. I haven't even voted for you. But I think you outed yourself pretty nicely in this te ta te. If someone other than Hapa wants me to clarify something or ask me a question then feel free. Bullshit. You've been calling me scum for several posts now, and now you back down? Yeah ok. Then what's all this crap then (below)? All the while I am somehow illogical despite having really solid reasoning and you just ignoring that to serve your OMGUS agenda. Well, that is cool with me HAPA. I don't have to convince you you are scum. I just have to convince the town. And that should be straightforward after this little party we have been having together. On January 05 2013 07:07 DarthPunk wrote: I will be gone soon. If I stop posting you know why. @everyone besides hapa. If you get outposted by scum as town you fail at this game. Just saying. Regarding Lurkers: Also about the lurker thing. I was critical of lurkers but believing that because I am critical of lurkers I can only go after lurkers is fallacious. Especially when I value knowing your alignment far more. No see the problem is that you haven't even attempted to go after lurkers or even pressure lurkers. Not even one post. | ||
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Hapahauli
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Welcome! Thoughts on DP appreciated! Regarding your own points: MrZ - He tends to do very "trolly" stuff as town and scum. His early-game in Witchcraft Mini is a good example, where he self-votes himself and just posts a couple of meaningless one-liners for most of Day 1 (as town). I'm not too worried about MrZ, as I think reading him is fairly easy. He's very clammy and afraid to post as scum. He's much more open and jokey as town. JayBrundage - He's lynch-bait (see Hero Mini Mafia). We should definitely encourage him to post more, but he's a pretty easy mislynch (if he's town) because he tends to make sparse and wishy-washy posts. Mr.CC - I think he's fairly similar to MrZ. I'm not very worried about reading him, because I feel he has a hard time replicating his "jokey" town-meta. His inactivity so far is a concern, but I'm not sure how much of that is due to RL business. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 05 2013 07:28 DarthPunk wrote: I suggest everyone read the context of those quotes as HAPA edited them out of context to suit his agenda. Hapa stated that he was pushing terrible wagons in order to increase activity. I then said as quoted why don't you pressure lurkers instead as they are actively hurting the game. Yes I am concerned about lurkers but that does not and never will prevent me from going after someone I view as scummier. And yes I do know hapas play. and he is correct in saying that this is all hallmarks of his town play but scum try to EMULATE their town play. The key difference is that Town hapa is almost always CLEARLY town. and right now He is not clearly town but quite scummy. I am gone now. If someone wishes to talk I will be back in several hours. GLHF. What I edited out of those quotes is completely inconsequential to the discussion. Hapa stated that he was pushing terrible wagons in order to increase activity. I then said as quoted why don't you pressure lurkers instead as they are actively hurting the game. Yes, and do you realize how hypocritical this is? You attacked me for not going after lurkers. While you are super-concerned about said lurkers, and haven't attempted to go after them even once so far. For effect, not once this game have you attempted to go after a lurker. And yes I do know hapas play. and he is correct in saying that this is all hallmarks of his town play but scum try to EMULATE their town play. The key difference is that Town hapa is almost always CLEARLY town. and right now He is not clearly town but quite scummy. I am gone now. If someone wishes to talk I will be back in several hours. DP conveniently "forgot" our game-history again. In fact, DP was convinced I was scum in Witchcraft Mini until I revealed my alignment to him after his death! WHOOPS. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 05 2013 07:07 DarthPunk wrote: I will be gone soon. If I stop posting you know why. @everyone besides hapa. If you get outposted by scum as town you fail at this game. Just saying. Well, that is cool with me HAPA. I don't have to convince you you are scum. I just have to convince the town. And that should be straightforward after this little party we have been having together. And yes I do know hapas play. and he is correct in saying that this is all hallmarks of his town play but scum try to EMULATE their town play. The key difference is that Town hapa is almost always CLEARLY town. and right now He is not clearly town but quite scummy. I am gone now. If someone wishes to talk I will be back in several hours. This guy has been explicitly and directly calling me scum (without any second thoughts). Yet where is his vote? Hell when I asked him to outline his case on me, this is what he posted: You aren't going to mislynch me HAPA. I suggest you try to mislynch someone else. And my case isn't one yet. I haven't even voted for you. But I think you outed yourself pretty nicely in this te ta te. If someone other than Hapa wants me to clarify something or ask me a question then feel free. Also about the lurker thing. I was critical of lurkers but believing that because I am critical of lurkers I can only go after lurkers is fallacious. Especially when I value knowing your alignment far more. Once again, no case, no nothing. Just more rhetoric about me "outing" myself. All talk, no backing, and nothing of substance. That's pretty damn scummy. | ||
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Hapahauli
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=8#142 Ugh, I don't like giving some players the benefit of the doubt if they're "lynch baits". That just encourages them to play anti-town as Mafia and then get away with it. Especially MrZentor's playstyle is so irritatingly useless and hard to read... What's the point of signing up if he justs posts some one liners anyway? It's not like I'm unwilling to lynch Jay if I think he's mafia. Far from it. However, his behavior does need to be analyzed in the context of his own gameplay. As for MrZ, I'm not worried about him at all. He's actually pretty easy to read, because his mafia and town personas are completely different from one another. He's far more active, engaged, and jokey in his town games. In his mafia games, it's pretty clear that he has a hard time making posts. His activity and engagement will reveal his alignment soon enough. | ||
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Well keep in mind that the only reason that DP is active is because I've been tunneling him rather adamantly. As for MrZ, well we can agree to disagree on him. If you do find him suspicious, I do encourage you to tunnel him and get something out of him. | ||
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If you had one (or two) top scumreads in the thread at the moment, who would it be and why? You threw around 3 lurkers and called them suspicious, but that's rather easy to do. I'm more interested in your conclusions. | ||
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On January 05 2013 08:42 MrZentor wrote: Hapa, although I'm unaware of DP's typical scum play, I'm pretty confident he's town. And what do you think of Xatalos? How so? If it's about his general loudness and aggressiveness, he's more than capable of doing that as scum. In fact he's done a similar nonsensical tunnel on me in TL Mafia LVII. As for Xatalos... well nothing yet. I'm not a huge fan of his post calling three lurkers suspicious, but I can see it coming from either alignment. That's why I'm asking him for some more concrete reads atm. There's just nothing tangible in his filter I can hold him accountable for. | ||
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On January 05 2013 08:52 MrZentor wrote: Posts like these make me think he is town. He's one of the more difficult people to read, so I think it would be best to wait a day before lynching him. I think those posts make him scum. What has he done to pressure lurkers or even encourage lurkers to post? Literally nothing. Saying "lurking suckzzz" is non-alignment indicative alone, but when you don't follow up on it at all, it's scummy. Especially when you chose to go after the guy with 40% of the Day 1 posts instead of the lurkers. What has he done to encourage lurkers to post? Nothing! | ||
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On January 05 2013 09:23 MrZentor wrote: Except the second time I stated that we needed guidelines, not rules. >.< Whatever. Eh this seems like arguing over semantics rather than substance. Anywho MrZ, any scumreads at the moment? | ||
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On January 05 2013 09:46 MrZentor wrote: What about you?  You so far. That's about it really. | ||
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On January 05 2013 09:45 MrZentor wrote: Me, you, and a little Xatalos Oh also, I thought you were convinced that DP was town. What changed your mind? | ||
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On January 05 2013 09:46 jaybrundage wrote: @Xalatos I dont plan to post just to post. When I'm ready to give my thoughts ill do so. Dont like this post from CC its twisting my words for no reason. It feels like a post just to post and look like hes contributing with out saying anything. Ofc the Hammer vote isn't going to take responsibility for the whole lynch but he does seal the deal. Also Hapa on your case on DP I think you bring up some good points. Specifically him calling you out with any case. And saying lurking is terrible but not pressuring any lurkers. Thanks for posting, but there's not much out of your filter right now other than re-hashes of points that people have already made. ShaioPi made a post earlier on Rise's "over-aggressiveness" - what are your thoughts on that? On January 04 2013 12:23 ShiaoPi wrote: I wanna have a look at RiseAgain: + Show Spoiler + On January 04 2013 09:45 RiseAgain wrote: Oh, good someone spewing banalities already. Also, that post is clearly pre-prepared, which makes it worthless for assessing your alignment. Good job? 1.) Why? Letting days go on interminably is a waste. Towns, more often than not, manage to talk themselves out of good lynches and generally get sidetracked, we need to have a plan for eventually reaching a consensus, if we spend a week talking, people will lose interest and focus, there's a reason days last 48 hours usually. I'm fine with running 72 hours, I'm not fine with us stalemating stupidly. 2.) I have a better proposal. Consider the guy taking the hammer vote the same as a day vigi and act on his "shot" accordingly, sometimes (most times) extended discussion is called for. Sometimes heroic shots are called for. Judge on actions. 3.) Policy Lynches are stupid, because town never follows up on them. We can claim we want to policy lynch people hammering stupidly, but you know we won't. There are way too many people who value their opinion over the common good, so time spent discussing policy lynches is... wasted time. Judge people based on their actions, nothing more, nothing less. What your post is doing is detracting from something we should be doing, setup-analysis, this setup has a very clear town slant with the proper play. I already know what it is, three townie points to the first person to propose it, if no one has come up with it in the next... 12-24 hours I'll explain it, after all, we have time. That is his first post. First question, why so aggressive? While it is true that we cannot gain much regarding alignment out of hapa's post, somebody does have to start the game and well it usually is policy talk. I for one would also be really curious what kind of setup gaming you have in mind RiseAgain. Also why respond to things which are "banalities" in your eyes? Shouldn't you just ignore them anyway? Honestly I'm just looking for anything from ya. It's hard to get a read from you when you don't post all too often. | ||
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On January 05 2013 09:57 MrZentor wrote: He was a weak town read anyways, and the fact that he posts every few hours why he won't be able to post later is kind of worrying. Huh? It doesn't sound like you had a weak town read on him before: On January 05 2013 08:42 MrZentor wrote: Hapa, although I'm unaware of DP's typical scum play, I'm pretty confident he's town. And what do you think of Xatalos? | ||
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On January 05 2013 10:09 MrZentor wrote: It was weak. Like what was your old read based on? Being "confident" that someone is town doesn't imply much weakness in your read. | ||
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Most interested in comments/reads/etc rather than specific questions. Hard to ask questions since you haven't really done anything. | ||
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Also 8 pages of thread in 24 hours is pretty fucking terrible. I'm half tempted to lynch the person with the lowest post-count after 72 hours. | ||
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However, Yamato's vote/post is just all sorts of absurd. You don't call someone's case "fake" without any rationale to back it up. This is not how this game works, and it's absolutely retarded play. I'm not sure if it's scummy or not yet, but like damn. | ||
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On January 05 2013 12:37 yamato77 wrote: Do people really think it was that difficult to understand what I said? Anyway CC your case is bad and I think you're faking this read. I don't think Xatalos is that scummy, but he is an easy target. CC is scummy. ##Vote: Mr Cheesecake I'm expecting you to explain the bolded in detail when you return. 1) Why do you think CC's case is bad? 2) Why do you think that CC is "faking" the read (and didn't just build a bad case as town)? 3) Why do you think Xatalos "isn't all that scummy?" If you had a strong town read on Xatalos, I'd understand this more. However, objecting to a case against a player that's seemingly a null read is... sketchy. | ||
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On January 05 2013 13:23 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: He's always been scummy as shit as town, though, for whatever it's worth. In what sense? Is his logic normally this bad? Even if so, it's the activity levels and lack of engagement that are most concerning to me. | ||
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On January 05 2013 13:28 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Think Eywa of Witchcraft. I think I compared Eywa to Yamato... said that he produced "The Yamato effect" or something like that. Nothing will ever be comparable to Eywa in Witchcraft. Anyway from what I got from Yamato, he tunnels people aggressively and frequently as town. I haven't even gotten a glimpse of that yet this game. | ||
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On January 05 2013 13:30 jaybrundage wrote: I find it hard ot see yamato as scum. Just bad town play imo. Like a wtf this makes no sense at fuckiing all town play. Ok how so? You're going to have to go in more detail here. What in particular about his play makes you think this? Because not making sense isn't a town trait. | ||
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On January 05 2013 13:40 jaybrundage wrote: Doing things that draw a shit load of attention to you for no fucking reason isn't a scum tell. He came out of no where said something about cc's case being bad soft defended Xaltos and then decided to vote cc . It could be a ploy for discussion it could be a pressure vote. But there is one thing that it did do and that is draw alot of attention to himself. I dont see mafia making a play like and draw scrutiny on themselves. For no foreseeable reason. I disagree. For one, I've never seen yamato play a scum-game, so I'm not sure what he's capable of. Secondly, his post is attention grabbing because it was bad, and NOT because he was attention-seeking. If he was attention-seeking, I'd agree with your town read. This is simply not the case with Yamato's post here. This is especially true since Yamato NORMALLY is very boisterous, active, and confrontational with his scumreads as town. He's been the exact opposite so far. Also Jay, you've been very forthcoming with town-reads, but haven't had any scum-reads to offer. Who is your top scumread right now and why? | ||
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You've been balls out convinced that I'm scum. You've explicitly called me scum over and over throughout the thread. And now... you're not convinced that I'm scum? And not only that... you want to go after Xalatos. Mmmmmhm. Moving on Xatalos is scummy as fuck. First there is his list post. Then he defends me and calls me townie. Hapa says a few things and he has the complete opposite position. He sheeps hapa and starts calling me his number 1 scum read. That is so off. I probably want to lynch Xatalos more than I want to lynch hapa today. Oh wait, then derp I'm back to being your #1 scumread: I am pursuing my number one scum read. that is not scummy. I have before as town said Lynch all lurkers and then ignored them and pursued my number one scum read vigorously. MANY MANY MANY townies decry lurkers and then ignore them in pursuit of their biggest scum read. That is perfectly normal behavior for town. is CERTAINLY not alignment indicative nor enough grounds for a lynch as you well know. The fact of the matter is you are just grasping at anything to justify your OMGUS of me and to flame me with. I'll get to some more specifics in that reply of yours, but I just had to post this. Also DP, please outline your "case" on me, so I can rip it apart for how incoherent it is. Just give me a bullet list. | ||
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On January 05 2013 07:07 DarthPunk wrote: I will be gone soon. If I stop posting you know why. @everyone besides hapa. If you get outposted by scum as town you fail at this game. Just saying. Well, that is cool with me HAPA. I don't have to convince you you are scum. I just have to convince the town. And that should be straightforward after this little party we have been having together. And yes I do know hapas play. and he is correct in saying that this is all hallmarks of his town play but scum try to EMULATE their town play. The key difference is that Town hapa is almost always CLEARLY town. and right now He is not clearly town but quite scummy. I am gone now. If someone wishes to talk I will be back in several hours. So what's all the above then... meaningless rhetoric? Now all of a sudden, you have this new "hesitancy" about things. I'm no longer surefire scum despite all the earlier stuff you've been spouting. | ||
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You think that being unsure and inconsistent is a scum tell? You are out of your mind. I am unsure because I am unsure. If I was scum I could fucking fake certainty twist everything you say into something scummy and then tunnel you to death all the while sounding like the most confident person in the world. I have done it before. it is easy. It is exactly what you are doing with me. You're not unsure. You're lying out of your teeth. What's all this shit then if you're "unsure"? Page one of your filter screams otherwise. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=12#230 | ||
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On January 05 2013 14:17 DarthPunk wrote: I suggest you read my filter. Everything on hapa is contained within those posts. Most effective way to push a scum-read ever. Hell I've attempted to read through your filter and see what "case" you have against me, and it's non-existant. All I see you is screaming that I've engaged in "manipulation" and that I'm "scummy" a bunch of times. That's it. Then I see things like this and I just have to laugh: 1) And yes I do know hapas play. and he is correct in saying that this is all hallmarks of his town play but scum try to EMULATE their town play. 2) The key difference is that Town hapa is almost always CLEARLY town. and right now He is not clearly town but quite scummy. I am gone now. If someone wishes to talk I will be back in several hours. This is wrong on so many levels that it's sad. 1) You blatantly admit that everything you're accusing me of are hallmarks of my town play. Yet you randomly and arbitrarily suggest that I'm "emulating" it. Why? You offer no reasons. Whoops. 2) This is blatantly false, as you were convinced I was scum in Witchcraft Mini Mafia until I revealed my alignment to you over IRC after you died. I was not "clearly" town in your view. Hell you think I'm scum all the time when I'm town. | ||
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On January 05 2013 14:24 DarthPunk wrote: Well you linked to something that wasn't page one. So grats. And you are using my meta wrong, again. Seriously you guys need to stop using meta when you clearly can't read me accurately with it. The key point is not pushing another townie that is weaker. The key point of my meta is DROPPING the STRONGER case for a WEAKER case that is on a weaker player. The fact is I am clearly not dropping the stronger case on you. I am still quite determined to go after you. That does not mean I want to ignore everything else in the thread. I linked the post where I had a selection of quotes from your page one filter. Learn2read. Secondly, you are dropping the case in a way. When players like Shaio ask for your case against me, you are unwilling to reproduce it. You went from balls out convinced I was scum in your page-1 filter to all of a sudden "unsure" of yourself. You dropped your significant suspicions to pursue Xatalos. | ||
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He went from completely sure that I was scum on Day 1: On January 05 2013 07:07 DarthPunk wrote: I will be gone soon. If I stop posting you know why. @everyone besides hapa. If you get outposted by scum as town you fail at this game. Just saying. Well, that is cool with me HAPA. I don't have to convince you you are scum. I just have to convince the town. And that should be straightforward after this little party we have been having together. And yes I do know hapas play. and he is correct in saying that this is all hallmarks of his town play but scum try to EMULATE their town play. The key difference is that Town hapa is almost always CLEARLY town. and right now He is not clearly town but quite scummy. I am gone now. If someone wishes to talk I will be back in several hours. ... and now is trying to say that he was never sure of his read in the first place: As for not voting for hapa. I didn't feel the need to vote hapa as I was not yet sure he was scum and still am not sure. In a format such as this I don't really like parking my vote on someone for long periods of time. The last time I did so in a instant majority game someone got hammered whilst i was asleep with my vote on him as a pressure vote. So i do not wish to repeat that experience. Especially on a player like hapa that I wouldn't want to lynch unless I was very very certain of his guilt, as he is being quite active and creating content. ... That is the key point in all of this. I want to be certain of hapa's guilt before I push for his lynch. There are very good reasons to be unsure of my guilt but hapa doesn't give a fuck about that. He wants to push his lynch first on Rise then on Yamato (lynch bait of the century) then on me. Hapa demonstrably does not give a fuck about being Correct he cares about his agenda and manipulates the facts in order to facilitate that. | ||
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On January 05 2013 14:38 DarthPunk wrote: ugh I am not scum. So there is that. Case on hapa very simply Pushes weak as shit wagons for weak as shit reasons when he should know better. Look at original post. Day 1 cases are naturally "weak." In fact, name me one town game in which I do not aggressively push a weak case Day 1 in order to create discussion. When Questioned he states that it was for the purposes of promoting activity and discussion. Which is fine. But then I ask why not push lurkers as they are hurting the game more than yamato or Rise were at that point as both had posted pretty recently. Tries to say that not pushing lurkers makes me scum which is fucking absurd. How is it absurd? You've made your hatred for lurkers really clear. Yet not once have you attempted to even attempted to do anything about the lurking problem. Ever. Not even once. Hapa proceeds to go apeshit and omgus me and tunnel me which is not the reaction I would expect from a town hapa who almost always gives me a town read in similar circumstances. I did the exact same thing in Witchcraft Mini. As town. Fail. He then misinterprets and misrepresents things that I say in order to paint me as scummy and discredit my view of his scummines to the point in which it seems as if it is deliberate and pushing an agenda rather than scumhunting and searching genuinely for my alignment. Just because you say it's a mis-interpretation doesn't mean it is. I quoted posts of yours that demonstrated your "hatred" of lurkers. There is nothing in that sequence that is a mis-interpretation. He flames and omgus' away regardless of what I say. Which is unlike any town hapa ever. He has never not called me town correctly aside from his scum game in mario. I was the first to accurately push a town read on you in Rockband Mini. I called your alignment after a day-long OMGUS war in Witchcraft Mini. A lot of it is gut feeling and a complete wtf?!?! reaction to hapa going apeshit at the lightest and IMO justified pressure originally. I OMGUS for small, inane reasons as town: true or false? This started as gut-feeling, and your play is vindicating my gut. And my gut is pretty darn accurate. | ||
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On January 05 2013 14:45 DarthPunk wrote: oh and If I had to lynch now and hapa was dead. hmmm. dunno I would need to read more filters. Actually I would wait to vote until something solid comes up. Remember when you called Xatalos scummy as shit? Yeah I guess you forgot about that huh? | ||
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On January 05 2013 14:47 DarthPunk wrote: Hapa. If you could day vig me right now. Would you do it? Honestly no. The tunneling process is how I vindicate my read on someone. I'm leaning very heavily scum on you, but I'm not 100% convinced. The percentage is ticking up rather quickly though. | ||
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On January 05 2013 14:48 DarthPunk wrote: Yeah. He is. But I am not certain. Holy fuck dude I change my mind and am unsure as a townie with no info on day one. That doesn't sound plausible at all now does it? Yeah, but how the hell did you change your mind so quickly? You just called Xatalos "scummy as shit" barely an hour ago. Then all of a sudden you're unsure again? | ||
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 eep Breath*Okeydoke. Admittedly I'm spamming too much and it's getting hard to communicate with you effectively. Can you hash out your case on me in a clear manner so I can respond to it in one shot? I'll do the same in whatever order you choose. | ||
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Damn that smiley * Deep Breath* | ||
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1) Why you think my play is different here than say... in Witchcraft Mini Day 1 2) Why you think I'm "twisting" and "misrepresenting" your posts | ||
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On January 05 2013 14:55 jaybrundage wrote: Hapa besides DP give me your next scum read Yamato. He's been far too lurky and disinterested this game in comparison to anything I've seen from his other town games. It is early Day 1 though, so I'm not sold on it. | ||
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On January 05 2013 15:00 DarthPunk wrote: Holy fuck. What do you not understand about this. I am town. I have no additional info. I have to figure shit out. The way I figure shit out is to have ideas and then alter these ideas with changing info or more thought applied to the problem. Whilst I was flaming with you I was thinking about Xatalos. Now the thing about Xatalos is that he is a pretty bad townie. He likes to sheep and he changes his mind. Changing your mind is a pretty bad thing to do as scum because people such as yourself for some reason view it as scummy, and as scum you don't need to change your mind. You can defend someone you know will flip town and be fully justified in doing that later when he flips. You can also tunnel people as long as they aren't your buddies, and even then you can do so. So changing his mind/sheeping was originally scummy but not with some further thought applied. His list post irks me as all lists post do in general HOWEVER re reading it actually contained decent content and seemed to fit someone trying to figure shit out. Not scummy. So. He is back to null after reevaluation and I need to figure some other shit out. Savvy? Savvy. You're town brah. ##Unvote DarthPunk | ||
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Firstly, me tunneling DP is somewhat ritualistic, because I find him super hard to read unless he gets under heavy pressure. So I just call him scum until I find reasons to believe he's town or scum. In this case, I think a lot of his recent posts show that he's pretty clearly town. For one, he refuses to get into a flame-war with me. This is very very clearly a town trait. I have no interest in repeating myself for you hapa. I will respond to others but I refuse to get into a flame war with you. My position can be found easily within my filter. Secondly, a couple of his other posts have shown exasperation and other traits I'd associate with a townie frustrated at pressure on him. This post in particular seemed really townie from an emotional perspective: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=14#278 As did his vote on Jay (which seemed sooooper townie) All and all, my tunnel served it's purpose. I'm convinced that DP is town. The method is crude, but IMO effective. Sorry DP <3 | ||
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After Hero Mini, my view on Jay is that he's lynch-bait, so I'm rather hesitant about lynching him. Right now, I'm unsure how likely his behavior is coming from a "town-Jay." His play on it's face is scummy, but I really need to hear more from him. @ Jay What do you make of my newly disclosed town-read on DP? Agree or disagree? Secondly, your quote accusing DP of assuming I was town was very clearly mis-interpreting his actions (in which he very clearly qualified as only IF I was town). It doesn't look very good. Explain yourself. | ||
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RiseAgain - Has been completely absent from the thread barring the opening hour of the game - Promised to return in 12-24 hours with some setup-speculation stuff and has not done so JayBrundage - He is lynch-bait, but his behavior alone has been the scummiest so far IMO. - Very little substantiative content in his filter. - He has his vote on Shaio right now, which is odd considering how much he's been pushing DP to get lynched. His "flow of suspicion" in this regard makes very little sense. I'll write more about this tonight when I have time. Yamato77 - Absurdly lurky and detached in comparison to his town games. - Hasn't done anything of consequence beyond a terrible vote on Mr.CC I would have ideally liked to have more narrow suspicions at this stage of the game, but it's simply impossible given the activity level. If you're town, your job right now is to generate content. If you see a player active at the same time as you are, have a conversation, probe that player, and ask him his opinions on things. The way things are going, this town is absolutely screwed if I get shot. | ||
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Also, making a "pressure vote," and then subsequently doing nothing to pressure said player doesn't look very good. | ||
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On January 06 2013 00:12 yamato77 wrote: His actions when you and DP were having it out were really towny. A scum could have been opportunistic or even just sat back and let it go on but he tried to get cooler heads to prevail and it worked. I haven't really had the time to follow up on anything yet this game. The vote wasn't a pressure vote, it was a play for a reaction, and I got one. Well the 180 seems especially strange since I'm used to seeing you tunnel players to death for the slightest of reasoning. In fact, Mr.CC hasn't done much to make me think he's town at this stage, and I'm surprised you were willing to give up your pressure so easily. | ||
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On January 06 2013 00:16 yamato77 wrote: I haven't had a problem with this before, but honestly my work schedule this week has been absurd. I am literally giving up thirty minutes out of the five hours I get to sleep today to play mafia right now and I'm putting my thoughts out there. I don't want to get too much into RL stuffs, but is your activity going to be a problem going forward? Because 30 minutes a day to "chime in" on things is not what I want to have from you going forward. | ||
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On January 06 2013 00:19 yamato77 wrote: I'm trying to quit the tunneling deal. I'm almost always wrong and I waste a lot of time in games by doing so. I can only attribute so much of your behavior to a "change of heart" about tunneling. Fact is, you've done very little resembling aggression this game at all. There's literally nothing in your filter resembling game-analysis, or even sustained pressure. On January 06 2013 00:20 yamato77 wrote: It'll get better after the weekend. I might have more time later today but I don't even know if I work in six hours or fourteen, lol. I have to wake up to find out. Fortunately we can extend Day 1 beyond the weekend, so I'll be holding you to this standard. | ||
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On January 06 2013 00:40 MrZentor wrote: I leave for a few hours and the thread explodes. -.- Thank me later. Anyway, I'm travelling for a good portion of today, so I'll be away for a little while. If you're town, it's up to you to generate some content. | ||
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Jay's case on Mr.CC is rather oddly timed given the rest of his suspicions. Rise is still not here. Yamato is apparently busy in RL, so not much to say there. I'm willing to give Yamato a pass until he's free after the weekend. Everyone else seems to care about the thread, so they get townie points for today. On January 06 2013 06:14 MrZentor wrote: I think we should assassinate Hapa while he's gone. Just think of his rage. XD + Show Spoiler + | ||
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What are your feelings on ShaioPi now? I can't figure out at all why you unvoted him, especially since Shaio hasn't even replied to you. Secondly, you've been gunning after DP for a while now, and have basically been calling out his "scumslips." Yet it's really strange that you've never had your vote on him. | ||
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Can you give me an update on your current suspicions? Xatalos does have a point when he says that you haven't been all that committal this game | ||
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On January 06 2013 08:35 jaybrundage wrote: Reread the thread he responded to me I then asked him another set of questions, Which he also responded too as well. The tunnel is strong in this one T_T Oh yes you did ask him some questions, however I'm still not sure what your current suspicions on Shaio are. You voted him early, and after asking him a couple of questions, I haven't heard you talk about Shaio since. And no I haven't been gunning after DP that was you btw. I thought the case on him you made wasn't decent. I also asked you question regarding you and DP and your past games. Plz answer it. DP and I have played in a couple of games. From my memory... TL Mafia LVII (DP = scum, Hapa = town) Rockband Mini Mafia (Both town) Mario Mini Mafia (DP = town, Hapa = scum) Witchcraft Mini Mafia (DP = town, Hapa = town) | ||
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On January 06 2013 08:42 MrZentor wrote: Can we kill somebody tomorrow? I want more information. I really don't want to kill anyone until Rise and Yamato start posting. We're shooting ourselves in the foot if we don't consider two players who've done nothing to prove their alignments. | ||
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So in LVII, we tunneled the hell out of each other for a bit in the mid-game. I called him town, and I was dead-wrong about his alignment, which might have "scarred" me a bit regarding my ability to read him. So I've been tunneling him since. In Rockband Mini, he had some really weird "plan," a bunch of people tunneled him, and I ended up with a town-read on him early on Day 1. In Witchcraft, I hard tunneled the crap out of him and similarly ended up with a town read on him. In both instances, I was correct. Now your turn: your attitude on ShaioPi. Go. | ||
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On January 06 2013 08:36 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: You kidding? He has been a floundering neutral playing PoS this game so far and literally hasn't done anything but teeter on the fence of null on DP. Xatalos scum. Jay scummy as fk. Yamato is pretty meh considering he's Yamato. That vote was just out there but, you know, it's him and i can't exactly blow up on him over his work schedule because mines pretty fucked up too. CC also pretty scummy. Not even going to bother with you and DP, I'm just glad you two stopped facerolling into each other. Rise I want to think as town because of his "grand master plan" to rid the world of scum and do justice. Idk, nothing inherently scummy so far other than lurking. MrZ soup null sides that he's "too obv scum to be scum brah" argument which rubs me the wrong way but hey, it's pretty much a null tell either way. Regarding Xatalos, I'm not as sold on him as you are. Indecision is not an exclusively scummy trait, and a degree of hesitancy is necessary with this mechanic. If he never comes up with something, I'll be concerned. For now, he's pretty null for me. I'm really not sure why you think Yamato is "Yamato." In fact, he's being anything but right now given his abysmal activity | ||
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On January 06 2013 08:58 jaybrundage wrote: Hapa Plz reread my case on him. It seems you missed some stuff before I read your case on him. I really don't agree with you. Mr.CC posts a lot of one-liners in his town games as well. In fact, I'm really not getting what you find bad about that "Xalatos is scum" post of his. You're basically making an association case based on DP being scum and Mr.CC ignoring DP's flip-flopping. | ||
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On January 06 2013 09:01 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I mean that Yamato in himself is an enigma all his own regardless of activity this game. I don't know what to do with him. Wut? Yamato is generally pretty obv-town when he's town. He's active, aggressive, and foams at the mouth about scum-reads. | ||
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You kidding? He has been a floundering neutral playing PoS this game so far and literally hasn't done anything but teeter on the fence of null on DP. Xatalos scum. Jay scummy as fk. Yamato is pretty meh considering he's Yamato. That vote was just out there but, you know, it's him and i can't exactly blow up on him over his work schedule because mines pretty fucked up too. CC also pretty scummy. | ||
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On January 06 2013 09:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Obv-town as town? You must have not seen my newbie games with him haha. One of the scummiest towns in those games by far. Which games in particular? Can you give me a run-down of his play in those games? Because in recent games I've seen (particularly Yet Another Normal Mini Mafia), he really flaunts a town persona. | ||
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But look at his filter in those games. Look how engaged, spammy, and aggressive he is. This game... he's a shell of himself. | ||
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On January 06 2013 09:22 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Can it all be due to a work schedule? I mean I can sympathize with that. But he's been really lurky so far and I was looking forward to him tunneling the fuck out of me. Him backing down made me a sad panda... Even if we dismiss the inactivity (due to RL excuses), it's the backing down that triggers the scum-alarm for me. I've never seen town Yamato back down from a scumread like that. Ever. | ||
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Though, I think he's scum because his behavior seems to go beyond a strategic change and into a personality change. . Basically all traces of his town-aggression are gone from his play. Perhaps this is due to inactivity, but it just seems too drastic of a change. | ||
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On January 06 2013 09:44 MrZentor wrote: I feel pressured. As cute as you're being, it would be helpful if you actually did something ya know. | ||
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Well his (Xatalos's) "flip-flop" makes sense since I was actively trying to convince him to do exactly that (in regards to DP). I will say that I see hesitancy as a town-trait in instant-lynch setups. It's something I was advocating early on, and him being patient and willing to take time with things makes me lean town on him. He reminds me a lot of Austinmcc in GSL III Mini in terms of his approach to early-game play. I'm not concerned about his "indecision" yet. I might be if this goes on for a couple of more days though. | ||
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On January 06 2013 09:45 DarthPunk wrote: Man I would love to hear from Riseagain. This kind of inactivity from a player hurts and it makes it absolutely impossible to determine their alignment. Also just reading through all the posts since I have been asleep I noticed something weird. It seems as if Jaybrundage and Xatalos have been pushing the same agenda and using very similar reasoning despite extremely limited in thread interaction. Now I know we can't make association cases before a flip, but I thought that I would mention it in case someone else had noticed the same thing. Funny, but fairly irrelevant. In fact, mafia buddies often won't push the same mislynch early Day 1 Do you have any individually focused thoughts on Jay and Xatalos? | ||
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On January 06 2013 09:47 MrZentor wrote: I can't do much if we're never lynching anybody... Well we're only 48 hours in. No reason to get impatient right now. But all this talk of lynch impatience rings hollow since you haven't voted for anyone... | ||
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On January 06 2013 10:03 MrZentor wrote: So when do you plan on lynching somebody? Whenever I feel like it. But more importantly, I'm not making a lynch decision on 17 pages of total game filter. That's just asking for fail. | ||
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On January 06 2013 10:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Hapa, you know how much I want to call that a scumslip right? Hehehe. Oh lordy you get me riled up. But seriously Mr.Z -- your opinions please. Well do you agree with me or disagree? And take your vote off him if you're unwilling to lynch him. Your pressure is better directed at your actual scumreads right now (Jay/Xatalos) than someone who clearly doesn't give a shit about your vote. | ||
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On January 06 2013 10:15 yamato77 wrote: I'm tired of this Hapa tunnel shit. Either vote me or not. I've been up front about my play this game and yet you continue to act suspicious of me. You have yet to vote me. It seems to me you're sitting on the idea of voting me just to look like you have scum reads. Fuck that. ##Vote: Hapahauli You have been useful this game: true or false? | ||
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I disagree on Mr.CC completely. He's been one of the more active and engaged players so far. I've spent a great deal of time talking to him over the last few hours, and I can't sense anything scummy about his behavior. He's open and opinionated, and that seems very townie. | ||
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What's the sense in voting for someone that's likely to get replaced? Also I'm rather surprised to see you not following up on Jay at all. | ||
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On January 06 2013 10:29 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: You really don't know the meaning of ironic, do you? And no, you've pretty much had it out for me since the start of the game. Just think you need to calm yourself. @Hapa What do you make of Yamatos vote on ya? Nothing really. It's as useless as the rest of his game. It's also rather sketchy considering he was sure I was town only yesterday. | ||
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Perhaps. My mind always goes back to LVII where he had 7 posts as town by Day 3 or something, and I was screaming for a vigi shot on him. My feeling was that he makes a ton more sense as town, and his scum play (Liquid City) reads as super-forced. I've seen neither so far in this game though =/ On January 06 2013 10:32 DarthPunk wrote: If he get's replaced I'll move my vote. I did follow up on J. I read his entire filter from hero mini mafia and some of the context. The thing is that aside from his sniping which I could see a townie doing I wouldn't want to lynch him. He has contributed to the discussion, and even though I don't agree with a lot of what he says I can't justify a lynch on him at the moment. He has scumhunted. He has been fairly active. He has been fairly open to discussion. The one thing that worries me is that in Hero he seemed to be more engaged in the byplay than he has been this game but the difference is minimal and as I just said it isn't enough to lynch him for. Basically If I left my vote on Jay it would be solely for the sniping/misinterpretation and that isn't enough for me. Basically I have no solid solid reads at this juncture. And my largest read previously (you) is acting quite townie and has justified what I viewed as extreme confirmation bias in tunnelling me with a townie motive. So it's down to voting lurkers for the time being. Idunno. The Rise vote just seems like a cop-out to me, given that all we know about his alignment is that he's a lurker. Can you give me thoughts on Yamato, especially in light of his recent vote on me? | ||
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On January 06 2013 10:39 jaybrundage wrote: ugh im frustrated non else things that CC is scummy. DP thoughts on my two cc cases? And hapa why are you convinced CC is townie he hasn't wrote a single case on his reads. It would also suck if Rise got replaced. I just want him to come back tho. ShaioPi lets see ya 'Cause writing cases is not the defining factor in making a read. In fact, CC has been overall very clear about his suspicions - it's just that they're rather spread out through his posting. He's an active, open, and willing participant in discussion, and the logical conclusion is that he's town. | ||
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On January 06 2013 10:36 Blazinghand wrote: RiseAgain is warned for inactivity. At what point will you consider replacing RiseAgain? 48 hours of absence is a bit absurd. | ||
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We'll see where he goes with his vote on me though. I'm a bit annoyed he didn't stick around for me to pick his mind though =/ | ||
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People that are useless: Yamato, RiseAgain, ShaioPi People I wouldn't lynch above the useless d00ds: Xatalos People that are likely town, but I'm just infinitely paranoid about: DarthPunk People that are likely town: MrZ, MrCC, Jay I feel like two scum have to come from the useless category (possibly including Xatalos). Pretty much everyone else has given me some reason to think they're town except for three players. | ||
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On January 06 2013 11:07 MrZentor wrote: Hapa, you never said what you think of yourself. People that are lovable, townie dicks | ||
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On January 06 2013 11:29 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Well it doesn't look like anything else interesting is going to happen today. We should consolidate soon. I'll lynch Yamato straight up or Xatalos. Shaio lives on the other side of the globe from where we're from, so I expect some activity from him tonight. Ideally I want to give things 24 more hours at minimum. I really don't want to play russian roulette with a bunch of lurkers. I'd like to ideally get things right on the first go. | ||
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Catching up on things right now. To clarify about spreadsheet - was that made before you knew you were replacing in>? | ||
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The Xatalos stuff looks good. Really don't have much to say other than that I agree with you. @ Yamato I don't think I'm being unjust at all. You've shown major behavior and activity differences between your previous town games and this game. I realize you said you were busy in RL, but I can't rely on that in my position, and I have to take your play at face value to a certain degree. I'm not going to let you off the hook of all pressure and activity for things I can't verify. Though I do take into account RL concerns; there's a reason that I'm not voting you right now, and I want to give you an opportunity to respond. In particular, I'm very interested in your reads, because you haven't provided much in the scum-hunting department thusfar. | ||
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I think the pressing reads to address are the ones on Mr.CC, Yamato, and Shaio. I do realize that these are reads as of page 17, so if I missed an update... whoops. Mr.CC - It's his recent behavior/activity that makes me think he's town. He's pretty fearless, and is generally replying without traces of guilt. It looks like you think he's town based on the last few pages of game-thread as well. Shaio - Completely null on Shaio. He had a rather "interesting" point on Rise, but I don't think those are hard to replicate as scum. Other than that, he's done pretty much no scumhunting, which is frustrating, because it looks like it's mostly due to RL business rather than anything else. He has a history of super-lurking the early-game as town too. Yamato - Welp. We'll see what tomorrow brings when I talk to him some more. His personality is visibly different, but I'm not convinced that it's a scummy deviation quite yet. That vote on me I'm thinking could come from an emotional townie as well. It's a horrendously risky play to vote me in such circumstances, which makes me think it's an emotional reaction rather than something scummy. | ||
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How's the activity outlook for you tomorrow? Also, MrZ is your top scumread, correct? What do you make of Z-Bo's stuff on Xatalos? | ||
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Like really, I'm most interested in seeing you scum-hunt and building cases. | ||
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Gnite, and I look forward to seeing what you come up with | ||
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Regarding MrZ, I looked into his meta when I was playing with him in Witchcraft. He's always fairly trolly, but there's such a huge difference in activity level between his scum and town metas. He's much more scared to post as scum, and to a noticeable extreme at that. He's someone I'm not considering for lynching today. However, there are definitely things that are "off" about his game-play this game. For example, he seems to not give much of a shit about who gets lynched as long as someone dies. Even in Witchcraft Mini, he seemed to care more about lynch decisions. While I would find this horrendously scummy for other players, this is well within the bounds of what town MrZ would do. It's also Day 1 in an instant-lynch game, so I feel his pain in a way. | ||
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Two things in your filter are bugging me right now. 1) You've been going after Shaio a great deal for being non-committal. However, you yourself have been arguably more non-committal all game, to the point where you don't have a single concrete scumread at this point. 2) When you made your case against Shaio, you were actively discrediting your own case within itself: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=25#486 All of his stances are neutral and weak. Although it's a bit hypocritical since I've been hesitant as well, but when he was town in our earlier game together, he had VERY strong opinions and even hard defended a scum until he actually flipped red. When he was Mafia, he was very quiet and vague. This just feels like much more fitting his scum meta, although it's not a huge pool of evidence. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=340298&user=140402 | ||
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Ahh something me and Yamato agree on... I hate that Mr. Z ain't doin shit this game. To... Okay this is rediculous. Yamato I feel like you're pressuring the weakest player right now (in terms of actualy content). These are super easy points to make as scum. These aren't good reasons to lynch Mr Z at all. Hell the rest of the post is ridiculous too. You're just flinging shit at 3-4 players (Yamato, Mr.Z, Shiao, Xatalos) instead of doing anything productive. | ||
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It's bad enough to make me reconsider my read on you. | ||
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On January 07 2013 04:54 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Calm down Hapa. I don't like that Mr. Z isn't doing anything this game. But Yamato's reasons for wanting him dead are lolcakes. That's what I was thinking when I read it, so deal with it. I'm comfortable with a Yamato or Xatalos lynch right now. And no, I wasn't flinging shit at Mr. Z lol. Take out Mr. Z and that's three players you just throw poop at. If you're only comfortable with lynching Yamato/Xatalos, why did you devote half of your post to ShaioPi? | ||
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On January 07 2013 05:02 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Because he was talking in the thread, and I felt it needed addressing. I still have no clue who the hell he wants to lynch right now. Yamato/Xatalos are scummier than that dude. And I'm glad I threw some poop. Thread needed a kick in the pants. ... To the bolded... are you serious? Did you miss the entirety of page 25-26 of the thread? You know, the pages where Xatalos and Shaio had been fighting to lynch one another? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=25#489 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=25#494 | ||
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Yamato atleast has given me a reason to think he's town. His OMGUS vote against me looks very townie in retrospect. It's a suicidal play as scum. | ||
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yamato77 - Voting for Mr. Cheesecake since... why? - Weird logic and reasoning... scrambling for something to back up his opinions? - Practically nothing useful in his (short) filter - Talking almost exclusively about meta/policy/semantics, nothing really meaningful related to this game Mr. Cheesecake hasn't looked all that bad lately, so I'm contemplating yamato77. It's a bit unfair because of his busy schedule, but the fact is, he hasn't done much so far (except suspecting MrZentor, a quite easy and passive target). I'm certainly not leaning town on you or Mr. Cheesecake though. It's just that I'm having a very hard time making scumreads in this game especially compared to my newbie games. I'm contemplating a lynch of ShiaoPi or yamato77. I didn't really get a scummy feeling from my back-and-forth with ShiaoPi earlier, so yamato77 might be a better choice. He might improve his contributions after his RL issues are solved though, so it's not easy to decide. Mr. Cheesecake isn't out of the question either. What I need now is some kind of a sign or clue about who would be the right choice. Unfortunately I'm in a different timezone than most here, so not that much is happening while I'm online :/ The first post was made ~page 15 in the game, so it's quite out-dated. The next few posts are more "eh, by process of elimination, I'm lynching yamato." | ||
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On January 07 2013 05:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: And apparently you missed this Hapa. Just because he's voting for Xatalos and gave a little reason post for it doesn't mean he has super vindication behind it. He said he was reluctant to lynch Xatalos and then votes him cus OMGUS pretty much. Okay cool. So that makes him suspicious then in your mind? Because you're apparently not considering lynching him. | ||
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On January 07 2013 05:33 Xatalos wrote: Well, it is largely a process of elimination. There isn't anything really condemning in his filter, but nothing actually townish either. I guess there isn't a surefire way to find Mafia during Day 1 and the first lynch has to be relatively uncertain, unless Mafia really fail somehow. But it's the best option in this uncertain situation, I guess. I'm running out of ideas and want to see a flip in order to make things a bit easier. Well why shouldn't you be the one to flip? The "unsure" vote on Yamato doesn't look good considering this post of yours here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=25#491 Where you're worried about one of ShaioPi's votes because scum (in one of your previous games) made an "unsure" vote - much in the manner than you're doing now. | ||
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On January 07 2013 05:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Well you asked me to give my thoughts on the last few pages. And there you go. I don't draw any conclusions because it's just what I was thinking. So yes, it is pretty useless, but it pushes whatever I was thinking at the time out there. Yes, but what are your conclusions? I'm rather interested in hearing them. | ||
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You mentioned that your vote would end up on yamato, Shaio, or CC today. A process of elimination read on yamato makes absolutely no sense when you have other potential lynch candidates. What are your current thoughts on Shaio and CC? | ||
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On January 07 2013 06:02 MrZentor wrote: I didn't want to say this. But CC and I are cousins. I know how to read him, and trust me, he's town. Wait rofl, is this for real, or is this just a play on your names? | ||
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On January 07 2013 06:14 Xatalos wrote: Mr. Cheesecake: he's had good engagement with the thread lately, but he hasn't actually done much. Much of his posting is just fluff or nearly fluff, like the stream of thought post for example. It doesn't feel like he wants to really affect the thread, more like comment on things of his choosing and follow along... It could very well be Mafia. I'm definitely pro-lynch on him. ShiaoPi: still concerned about his fake pressure, OMGUS vote on me, relative lack of contribution etc. I can easily see his filter from a Mafia perspective, unlike several other players (Hapahauli, MrZentor, jaybrundage). It all comes down to what's realistic. It's starting to look like ShiaoPi is not, Mr. Cheesecake and yamato77 may well be. So I'm not pushing for ShiaoPi to be lynched right now. I need less general statements and more specific analysis. Lynching based on realism = not good. Who is your top scumread based on behaviour alone and why? Let's pretend for a minute that everyone, is up on the block, and you control who the town is going to lynch. Who are you going to lynch? | ||
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On January 07 2013 06:26 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Hapa, you said somewhere that you had a town read on Jay. Could you extrapolate on that a bit? He seems very try-hard. Also I feel his reaction to me calling him town was very genuine. He all of a sudden got super-excited and had a short burst of posting that felt very pro-town. Honestly though, I have a town reads on a lot of people right now, so I'll have to go and re-evaluate things soon. | ||
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On January 07 2013 06:55 Xatalos wrote: If I had absolute power over the thread, I would lynch Mr. Cheesecake right now. Between his fluffy and passive opening game, constant lack of taking real stances and his recent weird and fluffy posts, he isn't much of a contributor or even a presence in the flow of the thread. Even considering his relatively good activity and engagement in several topics. I have to leave now for a quite lenghty period of time, so I'm torn about what to do. I guess I'll just have to leave it up to fate and hope I'm not lynched when I get back. ##Unvote yamato77 ##Vote Mr. Cheesecake Welp. When I asked you to avoid generalities, this wasn't what I had in mind. Well we're getting somewhere anyways. Also, define this "lengthy period," because I'm not thrilled that something as unsubstantial as this is your "parting words" to the thread. | ||
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Can you update your cases/reads on Mr.CC? He has posted quite a bit since your last analysis on him, and I want to see what you make of his new posting. | ||
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I still think he's scum though. His attitude in recent hours has been something like "I don't care who gets lynched as long as it isn't me." I've been rather patient with him to produce some more concrete reads, but he keeps talking in generalities as opposed to making any concrete analysis. I want to make sure we get the thoughts of Shaio and DP before I commit to the lynch though. | ||
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On January 07 2013 07:37 Z-BosoN wrote: How is it not too relevant? It's proof that his reasoning for backing off of ShiaoPi is weak. He didn't address said point of the case because there was nothing to actually refute it. I disagree with you here, I think this is a very important aspect of him being scum. Because he did the same thing with DarthPunk, had a read which got changed with fairly flimsy reasoning. Well, we can debate this in the post game, but if we agree that he is scum, what the hell right Pretty much =P | ||
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Again though, I'm in the process of re-evaluating all my town-reads. I basically have reasons to think everyone here is town for one reason or another except for Xatalos. | ||
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Kind of. I've been reluctant to lynch him today because I thought he handled the DP/Hapa situation fairly townie at the beginning of the game. He's probably the weakest read of 'em all though. | ||
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This is why we can't move quickly on these things >> | ||
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Expect my scumreads tonight or tomorrow morning. | ||
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I'm expecting MrZ to start playing now, and Yamato needs to explain why he kept referencing my arguments for patience earlier, and yet decided to pull this stunt. | ||
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I have a lot of reading to do. Weeeee. | ||
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Where were you most of yesterday? I understand you live on the other side of the world, but your contributions to the thread after I called you town have been really lacking. Before the CC case, you basically were seemingly helpless and calling a bunch of people null. Not only that, but you were absent right until the flip, at which point you start saying that Xatalos was "obv-town", yet did absolutely nothing to stop his lynch. As for your CC case, I'll make my final thoughts on players before the deadline tonight. | ||
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You don't mention Xatalos much at all in your filter. Though before the lynch, you make two notable comments on Xatalos: On January 06 2013 20:01 jaybrundage wrote: Good to see you make a case Xatltos. Ill reread ShaioPi's filter when i get a chance. Also Yamato i also think Zentor could be scummy. Alot of people have a town read on him it could jsut be his meta but hes done some pretty scummy things  On January 07 2013 05:49 jaybrundage wrote: Ok Time to Consolidate our votes guys. I for one would still be happy killing CC. Glad Hapa's opinion is changing TBH it seems like we have alot of people sheeping you hapa whether you like it or not. So use your sheep for good. I for one would not be interested in lynching yamato he seems like a lynch bait i am after all an expert on these matters. Zentor has given me second thoughts by posting a post that wasnt completely shitty :D Good job Zentor. Both of them are easy lynch candidates for mafia as they do scummy things by them selves and you don't have to actually put your self in a comprising situation. ATM I am unsure of Xatalos I'll have to give his Filter another gander. @ZBoson I have written two cases on CC so far The main points are lack of cases but also lack of conviction and his ability to not really have a stance on anyone. Hes called me scummy like 3 times but as of yet he hasn't given me a reason of why i am or am not scummy. Its obvious in his reads that atm he has no plans to lynch me why cause then he would have to put something on the line. Which as scum he is hesitant to do. In the first comment, you acknowledge ShaioPi's suspicion on Xatalos. In the second comment (two hours before the lynch), you promise to look into him. However, two hours of suspicion against Xatalos pass (including cases dropped by both CC and Z-Boson). You don't post in favor of Xatalos until post-lynch: On January 07 2013 08:23 jaybrundage wrote: That was so badddddddddddddddddd. I was gonna go reread Xaltos posting cause the more i looked at him the more i could see townie. Like we lynched him when he wasnt even here. I only see a scum driven wagon when I look at the votes. Hapa questions do you think that both of the scum could of been on that wagon. Do you think it was scummy as fuck for what Zentor and Yamato did. Hammaring with out talking to the town first is terrible we should all b agreeing on shit. Not do rash dumb actons You have many harsh words to say about the lynch (and apparently you were seeing townie things in his filter), and not once did you even attempt to step in and stop things. Not only this, but I can't make coherent sense of your suspicions. You were expressing a lot of desire to lynch Mr.CC post-flip, and in this post, you think MrZ and Yamato are the ones that are "scummy as fuck." Why did you not step in to stop the Xatalos lynch? Apparently you were reading his filter at the time suspicion against him was taking off, were seeing townie things in said filter, and simply did not post about it. Explain your suspicions right now. They aren't coherent. | ||
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1) It's post-weekend and you've still been very useless. Is work still a problem? 2) You've been emphasizing my ideas of patience all game. Hell you've been attacking MrZentor repeatedly for wanting someone dead: On January 06 2013 17:58 yamato77 wrote: Mr Zentor He's only given a lot of town reads and acted impatient about lynching people. His filter is full of one liners that provide little reasoning for what he wants to do this game aside from Lynch people. He seems more preoccupied with there being a lynch than who is going to be lynched. He hasn't helped town find who they should lynch, either. Hapa says he's a bored townie but he looks like a scum just waiting for an excuse to hammer a townie lynch. Yet for some reason, you follow MrZ off a cliff to lynch Xatalos in the most impatient manner possible. Why were you so willing to follow the vote of one of your top scumreads this game? Also, what happened to all that talk about being patient and whatnot? You left the thread for an hour or so, then when you returned, you immediately hammered without any discussion. | ||
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On January 08 2013 04:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: In terms of DP's case.. It's alright. He's wrong, but I'm pretty scummy and much of the argument does hold water. However, I'm fairly disinterested with the pressure on me right now. I don't think I'll be lynched tomorrow, and I won't sit here and waste time deflecting every point brought against me. We can all settle on the fact that I'm super scummy right now, and that's fine with me. I would like you to be concerned, because I'm interested in hearing you defend what looks like a reasonable case against you. | ||
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Also, you can generate discussion without looking bad. | ||
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You trusted MrZ because he didn't hammer vote... The fuck? @ DP How about the day before - you really haven't been all that active of late | ||
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On January 07 2013 08:08 MrZentor wrote: ##Unvote: ##Vote: Xatalos HAMMER HIM HAMMER HIM HAMMER HIM | ||
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Just want to be sure, I have a post prepared. | ||
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On January 08 2013 06:40 DarthPunk wrote: The day before I was defending myself against you. Yeah I haven't been as active as normal, but that is mainly because it is the middle of summer here and I have been going outside and doing other things aside from mafia. I don't think I have been useless, I had trouble getting a read earlier but now I have a pretty solid scum read on CC. I find it very interesting that he is just flat out refusing to comment on my case other than saying I am right and he is scummy. Perhaps that is because he knows I am correct. What makes this situation different from your town case on Xatalos? Didn't care about being scummy. = Town Didn't alter his play when it was obviously getting him into shit = Town Continued to pursue his reads with the whole thread calling him out for them = Town CC's play seems to fit the bolded pretty well. | ||
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On January 08 2013 07:23 jaybrundage wrote: Then we get rid of a scummy as hell townie Which is not a good idea. | ||
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On January 08 2013 07:45 MrZentor wrote: lol If I may bitch a bit... A townie's primary goal is to scumhunt. Acting "cute" is fine and dandy, but you're forgetting the part where you're supposed to find scum. | ||
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On January 08 2013 07:53 MrZentor wrote: The night is when you party. Day is for scumhunting. Just promise me you'll do more mmmkay? | ||
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1) Do not rush the lynch! Day should be 48 hours minimum. 2) Talk! Ask questions for god sakes! Take time to consider the lynch tomorrow. Patience is very key in these situations - quick, emotional swings (like Day 1) are likely to be disasters for town. Also, I am basically 33% of this game in terms of content. If I get shot and townies decide not to step up to the plate to lead discussion, it's game over. Lastly, if no NK happens tomorrow, you can probably assume that there is a doctor and he/she made a hero save. In that case, the named townie should most definitely claim (if there is one). People that are likely TOWN Mr.CC - He's town. I did find that one post of his questionable, but outside of that, he's behaving really really townie. He doesn't care about suspicion on him, and that's not a scum reaction. Hell that's not a reaction that scum can easily fake. Context for gods sakes. As a side note, the CC suspicion is coming together far too easily for my tastes. It feels like mafia are either pushing it or just letting it happen. MrZ - Much the same as CC. Doesn't give a shit about suspicion on him. He's town. People that need looking into DP - I'm disappointed at the lurkiness, but I keep going back to his "Fuck you" vote on Jay, which I see as townie. That's not a natural scum reaction to being under pressure. DP is a capable scum-player though, and he is good at faking emotion. The lurkiness scares me, but I doubt he's scum. Z-Boson - He's slightly town on behavior, since he did more scum-hunting in his first hour in the thread than most people have done all game. He is a rather capable scum-player though, so I think there's a chance here. Yamato - Very uncharacteristically inactive, and there's some sketchy logic in his filter. There are things that make me lean town on him (his OMGUS vote on me when I was tunneling him is extremely brave for a potential scum). However, there are things that make me lean scum on him (his hammer on Xatalos and his seeming trust of MrZ). Very null here due to his inactivity. Be worried if he doesn't post more in the following cycle. Jay - I don't like his tunnel on CC, nor do I like some of the actions in his filter. Examples include: 1) His interactions with DP early in the thread. He was attacking DP in a very scummy manner when I was tunneling DP. 2) Very wide array of suspicions post-Xalatos lynch. He seems to be flinging a lot of shit in the way of Yamato and MrZ (even Shaio pre-lynch) despite being "convinced" that Mr.CC is scum. 3) His general attitude on DP is very strange. When I called DP town, Jay initially refused to back down on his scum read on DP. I don't think he's mentioned a read on DP since. My general hesitancy on him is that he's lynch-bait. ShaioPi - I've seen Shaio inactive in the early game as town on occasions. Often he feels "overwhelmed" by large #'s of players and prefers a smaller setting (as was the case in Mafia LVII early game). However, when he's town amongst a smaller group of players, he is a very capable scum-hunter and isn't afraid to take control. The endgame of Mafia LVII is a great example of him taking control, as well as his stellar performance throughout GSL II Mini. In this game, he's done the following: 1) Light pressure on RiseAgain 2) Questioning DP's scumread on myself 3) OMGUS vote on Xatalos That's far less than I would expect from a townie Shaio. As far as scum #2 goes, I'm far far less sure. Put a gun to my head and I'd say Jay. But he's lynch-bait so eh. However, I highly highly doubt that a town ShaioPi would be this useless in a 9-player game. Give him 48 hours tomorrow to post. If he does not shit scumhunting rainbows into the thread, or if he doesn't give you a really really good reason to make you think he's town, he's scum and needs to be lynched. Period. | ||
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You have 48 hours to show me that you're town. | ||
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I don't want to be the guy forcing things. I'm obv-town at this point, and there's no point in establishing my townie-ness any further. If you're town, today is the day for you to show it. | ||
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On January 08 2013 08:11 yamato77 wrote: Hapa I'm interested in hearing more about your accusations against Shiao because I definitely do not share your opinion of him. A lot of people have been inactive this game, what about his inactivity is special? His OMGUS deal with Xatalos didn't seem that scummy to me. I defended him after all. Substantiate the case, if you will. Substantiate your town read on him. Also tell me who you'd lynch over him and why? I'll answer when you finish things. | ||
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On January 08 2013 08:11 Z-BosoN wrote: Sorry guys, took longer than I expected, traffic was a slut. I'm glad no one died. Hapa are you here? Yep. Need your thoughts and stuffs. I'm rather disappointed that you didn't post anything last night, especially since you were a plausible NK target (with everyone thinking you are town and whatnot). | ||
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On January 08 2013 08:15 Z-BosoN wrote: So you are. Don't go ahead and disappear. I want to discuss ShiaoPi and CC with you. Why me? Discuss them with the rest of the thread. I'm the last person you should be asking the opinion of right now - I'm obv-town. We need to hear answers from others to determine their alignment. | ||
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On January 08 2013 08:23 Z-BosoN wrote: So what? Asking opinions is a good way to find scum, but it also adds information. I actually think the opposite, since you are 99% town right now, you should dish out as much info as you can, as it's almost guaranteed non-bullshit. I can understand your view this game due to inactiveness, but I don't want you to go full inactive (dunno if that's what you plan to do). @Mr.CC It's cause I think Hapa is wrong on you and wrong on ShiaoPi. Since you are right here - let me ask you this, do you think DP is scum? Oh you bet I'll be dishing out information. I just need to see people taking some initiative right now. I don't want people sheeping me. I need to see who's pushing reads for what reasons and why. | ||
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You think scum wouldn't have a similar reaction to you? I hate to be harsh, but it's not like you push town agendas in your town-games very frequently. Also, Shaio making a list post is not a town tell. | ||
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I would be so happy if you did this + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://s8.postimage.org/h2p37sixh/WHEEEEEEE.gif) | ||
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On January 08 2013 08:54 yamato77 wrote: So I should think Shaio is scum for thinking the same things as me, a town player? That doesn't make sense to me. What prevents a scum from thinking the same way as you (if you're town)? The similarities in your thought processes have no relevance to his alignment, since we don't know if the players he's giving his thoughts on are scum or town. What if one of your town reads is scum, or if one of your scum reads is town? A mafia would be happy to think they way you are thinking. | ||
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On January 08 2013 08:57 yamato77 wrote: EBWOP Also how do I look townie and push scum objectives at the same time, Hapa? Earlier you had a meta read on me because I "look townie" in YANMM but you seem to think I push scum objectives? I'm not sure I follow that line of reasoning either. I thought I made it clear. I'm very null on you, because I have conflicting reads on you. I think most of that is due to your RL business, which has made it hard for me to get a good feel for your gameplay. | ||
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On January 08 2013 10:05 Z-BosoN wrote: nope. Is there a key aspect to it I may be missing? In what I've seen, he's super-lurker extraordinaire as scum. | ||
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On January 08 2013 10:17 DarthPunk wrote: @ bolded. He keeps doing it and it remains scummy as fuck. Baiting someone to tunnel you like that only serves to discredit and diminish yamato's read. He has done it with others also. I don't like it at all. @ Hapa how can you reconcile such behaviour with a town mindset? How the fuck is the bolded a scum mindset. Are you retarded? | ||
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On January 08 2013 10:21 DarthPunk wrote: How the fuck is it not. It is exactly what I would be saying in that situation as scum. Firstly, you are not CC. Secondly, attracting suspicion to yourself isn't scummy. I find those things town in general. At the very least it should be null. | ||
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Let's talk about my scumreads for a minute. Why is Shaio not scum? (And to a lesser extent Jay) | ||
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On January 08 2013 10:34 DarthPunk wrote: Yes, attracting suspicion to yourself IS townie. But that is exactly what you do if you are playing that style as scum. And he has done it pretty much everytime someone has called him out. Which causes me to read it as a heuristic to diminish suspicion by emulating a townie reaction, rather than a genuine show of emotion that has not been premeditated. One is townie the other is scummy. CC is scummy. Being stubborn and not changing your strategy when pressured isn't scummy. I'd understand if he was using it as a ploy to avoid scumhunting. But he's not. He's turning down opportunities to defend himself and going after his scumreads instead. That's absurdly townie. | ||
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On January 08 2013 10:36 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: @Hapa I know I'm in the middle of rolling my face over Yamato, but what do you think about Shaio always defending himself? I made a post about it during the night. Nobody has responded to it in the slightest. Is it a paranoid scumtell? Person lurking and doing nothing of consequence but defending himself = scum. He's kinda the guy I want to lynch ya know >.> | ||
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GSL II Mini is the most recent example of his town play (in a mini), where he was leading discussion for most of the game in a lurky town environment. If he's town, he has an opportunity to prove that over the next 48 hours. Otherwise, I'm lynching him. | ||
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On January 08 2013 11:15 jaybrundage wrote: I would be done for a Shaiopi lynch. Also DP why would you think im scum. If CC comes up as scum. Pushing your partner hard when there is only 2 scum is pretty stupid You realize you're down for lynching like everyone in this game right? | ||
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On January 08 2013 11:41 yamato77 wrote: Excuse me for having other things to do in my life besides prove to town that you are scum. Are you going to do anything today besides defend yourself? Poorly,I might add. I bring up plenty of points besides just the useful discussion point. You cannot deny it looks like straight up post-hoc rationale. You didn't intend to look scummy with your shit but now that you do and you realize people see it that way you're making up bullshit excuses for your shit play. I'm dine with reading your useless posts. It is in town's best interest to see you hang. ##Vote: Mr Cheesecake Weren't you accusing him of... not defending himself before? | ||
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Oh that was DP. I dunno why, but I'm thinking of both of you as one entity for some reason. | ||
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On January 08 2013 11:56 jaybrundage wrote: @Hapa well lets see I made a case on ShaioPi, Sheeped your case on DP who i'm leaning town on, and then have been gunning for CC. So that's two people I want to lynch. Yamato why didnt you want to lynch CC earlier? Four people actually: On January 07 2013 08:19 jaybrundage wrote: Ok can we lynch cc now On January 07 2013 08:23 jaybrundage wrote: That was so badddddddddddddddddd. I was gonna go reread Xaltos posting cause the more i looked at him the more i could see townie. Like we lynched him when he wasnt even here. I only see a scum driven wagon when I look at the votes. Hapa questions do you think that both of the scum could of been on that wagon. Do you think it was scummy as fuck for what Zentor and Yamato did. Hammaring with out talking to the town first is terrible we should all b agreeing on shit. Not do rash dumb actons On January 08 2013 11:15 jaybrundage wrote: I would be done for a Shaiopi lynch. Also DP why would you think im scum. If CC comes up as scum. Pushing your partner hard when there is only 2 scum is pretty stupid Also, at what point did you start leaning town on DP? I can't identify a single point in your filter where you call DP town. | ||
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On January 08 2013 12:11 yamato77 wrote: Read my fucking posts. It's all there. If you don't agree with me I don't give a shit. I've read your posts. Here's a summary of every reason why you think CC is scum: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=39#775 1) CC hasn't called you scum and is defending you. Therefore he's scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=40#788 2) Mr.CC is OMGUSing you http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=40#793 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=42#831 3) Mr.CC wants town to be suspicious of him // Mr.CC is "baiting" you into tunneling him http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=42#835 4) Mr.CC is only defending himself That's your entire case, and it's fucking insane. #1 and #2 are completely null-tells. #3 is a HUGE town-tell #4 is a null tell, and is actually false, considering he's been doing much more than defending himself in the last few pages. Have you ever considered that you're really really bad at reading Mr.CC? Have you ever gotten a read right on him? | ||
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On January 08 2013 12:23 yamato77 wrote: How is wanting town to be suspicious of you a town tell? The best advice I've ever been given about being town is to get out of the way of the scumhunt. He can't even manage to do that. Apparently everyone thinks I'm bad regardless of what I do but I'm putting my case out there. As I said, I don't really give a shit if you agree with me or not because I think he's scum. Does it make sense from a scum perspective to shower suspicion on yourself? Scum mentality is to avoid the spotlight and blend in. CC is doing the exact opposite. Do I agree with how CC is playing? No. But that doesn't mean he's scum, because his play makes zero sense from that perspective. | ||
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Back to my post over here: On January 08 2013 12:09 Hapahauli wrote: I've read your posts. Here's a summary of every reason why you think CC is scum: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=39#775 1) CC hasn't called you scum and is defending you. Therefore he's scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=40#788 2) Mr.CC is OMGUSing you http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=40#793 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=42#831 3) Mr.CC wants town to be suspicious of him // Mr.CC is "baiting" you into tunneling him http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=42#835 4) Mr.CC is only defending himself That's your entire case, and it's fucking insane. #1 and #2 are completely null-tells. #3 is a HUGE town-tell #4 is a null tell, and is actually false, considering he's been doing much more than defending himself in the last few pages. I'm curious. In all of the games you've played as town, when have you used ANY of these tells to actually find and lynch mafia? | ||
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On January 08 2013 12:38 yamato77 wrote: Apparently I can't read people so it doesn't make any difference. All of the times I have lynched mafia people said I was sheeping so whatever. I'm leaving. This was a waste. I'm arguing against the scum and his biggest supporter. Stop being a whiny little bitch and get back in here. "I'm done talking to you because my feelings are hurt that I'm attacking your case" is pathetic. And is lynchable. And kid, you better listen to what the fuck I have to say, because I know a hell of a lot more about scum-hunting than you do. | ||
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Thoughts on recent developments? You kinda peac'd out | ||
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Aaaaaanyway, fact is that I need Yamato to talk to me about his read. I start attacking his logic... and then he quits instead of backing himself up? That's unacceptable and doesn't play towards town goals at all. | ||
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On January 08 2013 12:55 DarthPunk wrote: This is fucking bullshit hapa. His play makes perfect sense as scum. There seems to be a disconnect over what we think a hypothetical Mr.CC scum is capable of. | ||
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On January 08 2013 13:03 yamato77 wrote: Well why don't you sit back and critique my cases some more, then? It's so productive for me to go after my scum read and then have you come in here and shit all over it. Listen. Yes I am critiquing your cases, because I disagree with you. That's part of the process here. For example, you think that him drawing attention to himself in such a manner is scummy. That's just simply not a scum tell. I think you'll find in a lot of your past games, that the scum aren't the ones drawing attention to themselves. They aren't the ones that OMGUS, are raving lunatics, or get into crazy fights. They are very often the ones blending in and hiding. You just finished Yet Another Normal Mini Mafia, right? Who was scum - Dr. Wiggles, Vivax, and Sciberia. They weren't super-active spammy dudes. They were for the most part trying to blend behind the scenes. The player under intense scrutiny and drawing attention to himself (Promethelax) was town. Then you have Newbie XXXII, where Rad and Oatsmaster were scum. Rad for the most part dropped a big case once in a while and blended in. Oatsmaster was active and spammy, but was so whiney compared to his towny self. So when I see you making this read on Mr.CC, I'm not attacking it to be an asshole. I'm attacking it because I believe it's fundamentally wrong, and I feel like I'm watching my less-experienced past self OMGUS townies into oblivion (which I did and still do with extreme regularity). And I'm sorry I'm being dickish about it, but I do feel very strongly about it. | ||
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On January 08 2013 13:09 DarthPunk wrote: Also hapa stop defending CC plz. Let him defend himself. You getting involved helps no one and yamato is pursuing his top scum read. CC is a big boy he can fight his own battles. Well I'm more interested in figuring out Yamato than I am CC at this point. | ||
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I think the biggest issue I have with you Jay is that you seem to push suspicions on everrrrrrrryone simultaneously: On January 07 2013 08:19 jaybrundage wrote: Ok can we lynch cc now On January 07 2013 08:23 jaybrundage wrote: That was so badddddddddddddddddd. I was gonna go reread Xaltos posting cause the more i looked at him the more i could see townie. Like we lynched him when he wasnt even here. I only see a scum driven wagon when I look at the votes. Hapa questions do you think that both of the scum could of been on that wagon. Do you think it was scummy as fuck for what Zentor and Yamato did. Hammaring with out talking to the town first is terrible we should all b agreeing on shit. Not do rash dumb actons On January 08 2013 11:15 jaybrundage wrote: I would be done for a Shaiopi lynch. Also DP why would you think im scum. If CC comes up as scum. Pushing your partner hard when there is only 2 scum is pretty stupid On January 08 2013 07:08 jaybrundage wrote: Wait its in one hour. Also i think ZBoson might be scummy this is a read straight from the gut tho. IF i have time ill try to write a case incase i get killed. That's like five separate players you've basically accused of being outright scum in the last ~24 hours or so. I think it goes beyond simple paranoia into you trying to "fan the flames" of suspicions in the thread. | ||
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And this recent push of yours on Shaio... it reads like you don't give a shit about who dies when looking at the rest of your play. You've been screaming "CC is scum" over and over again since last night. If you are that convinced he's scum, why are you "down" with a Shaio lynch? And once again I just can't make sense of your reasoning regarding Shaio: 1) You mention that you made a "case" on him, but this case was early on day 1. 2) Your main justification for lynching Shaio right now seems to be this: On January 08 2013 14:00 jaybrundage wrote: I never said he would be a good lynch if hes town. I said his inactivity hurts us whether hes scum or town. In the end I can never know for sure if you, ShaioPi, ZBoson, Zentor or anyone else for that matter is town or scum. However if ShaioPi looks scummy then we should by all means lynch him. So far he hasn't given us much content to go off and determine his alignment. I dont want him at LYLO because if he stays at this post rate we still wont have much to go on. ... Not wanting someone alive at lylo is not a reason to lynch someone. You seemingly want to lynch him here because you can't determine his alignment. Lynching null reads over people you think are scum is sketch. Really sketch. | ||
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On January 08 2013 15:09 jaybrundage wrote: Hapa I do care about who wants to get lynched. But The last 3 days or so my biggest scum read has been CC and your have done a great job of making sure that goes no where. I was not happy at what Zentor and Yamato. And i was posting when i was kinda pissed. Scummy wasnt the right word to use tho. I think Dumb as fuck or really stupid, or anti town would all of sufficed better. I still am Null on those players. Leaning town a bit based on what people have said about Zentor's meta and how you guys have a good read on him. Similar to how i deferred to your experience with DP for a read. I have been trying to expand my scum reads more tho cause this CC lynch doesnt look like its gonna happen unless you change your mind about him. What if you were in my position. If you had someone that you thought was scum. But the town refused to lynch him. Even had players HARD defending him. Its kind of frustrating. Z-Boson was more of a gut thing I had the same premonition last game with him and I was right he was scum. So I thought i would throw it out there as opposed to sitting on the information. Also at the top of your post you say its a push.... Its not a push its giving my consent to a lynch that your pushing. I havent made a real case yet since my last one on cc. But its wierd as well. Before most towns were very case orientated. This town not so much. Anyway If ShaioPi starts shitting town vibes and rainbows whats your next scum read? What was odd about "abandoning" your CC read was that you did so when two players (DP and Yamato) were all-out trying to get CC killed. In fact I've been quite minority view on a "town CC." Everyone else thought he was scum, at which point you all of a sudden you gave your consent to lynch Shaio. As for who I want to lynch other than Shaio, I'll tell you if and when it happens. | ||
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In Witchcraft Mini, MrZ tunneled me all of Night 1 and most of Day 2 because I wasn't yet dead. While the logic is similar, the intensity with which he pushed my wagon was far different than he's doing this game. In fact in Witchcraft, he was much more concerned with scumhunting, even on Day 1. I think the overall quality of his reads this game is fairly normal for a town MrZ. However he's been pushing his reads far differently this game. | ||
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On January 08 2013 15:59 yamato77 wrote: I'm illustrating the ridiculousness of Hapa's defense of CC's play. Who honestly thinks that guy is useful at all? He's basically claiming scum with all his "tunnel me" bullshit. I don't see why he shouldn't hang. Just because you say the whole "tunnel me" thing is scummy doesn't mean it actually is. Once again, show me a scum-game of any player where he or she takes that attitude as scum. Any player. I'm serious. | ||
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On January 08 2013 16:05 DarthPunk wrote: Did I move off cc? I said his recent posts were townie, and now I am focusing on jay. I am not too stubborn to ignore your opinions altogether. Do I think there is a good chance cc is scum? yes. Is jay scummier right now? yes. I swear to god if I was still tunnelling cc you would be like: Hey DP Y U still tunnel townie cheesecake? Yeah probably =P Aaaaanyway, bed time for me. I'll hopefully have a concrete read or two this afternoon and/or when Shaio gets his ass back in here. | ||
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On January 09 2013 03:52 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Everyone was pushing me. I need to clear myself in order for people tovtake me seriously. I cant save you twice anyway, you die then me. I figure being confirmed town is better Oh wellz. Do you actually make Yamato's pushing of you as scummy? He seems to do that every game - what makes this one different from the past? | ||
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On January 09 2013 04:01 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I'll respond after Hapa After I do what? Well anyway, I have very mixed feelings on the tunnel. It seems like raving confirmation bais, but I don't believe it's difficult for scum to tunnel at all. And then you have all these posts Yamato was making on Day 1: On January 06 2013 00:19 yamato77 wrote: I'm trying to quit the tunneling deal. I'm almost always wrong and I waste a lot of time in games by doing so. On January 06 2013 16:59 yamato77 wrote: @Hapa From the YANMM Obs QT after I died, I asked how I could have played better: Toad 12-31-2012 09:27 PM ET (US) @Yamato: less emotional would have been better Yamato. I saw you getting influenced by people and how they posted and thought you're raging a lot. And I think you did or it at least altered your reads a lot because you ended up pushing people who made you mad if I remember correctly. I'm trying. He was uber passive in the early game because he was trying not to tunnel and avoid situations exactly like the one that just transpired. What happened to all that? I don't know. And then we have the town-reads on CC earlier on Day 1, most notably the following: On January 07 2013 06:12 yamato77 wrote: I don't think you guys should lynch CC, he's looked townie this game IMO. This post I referenced before but it's a huge town tell in my eyes that he wanted to stop the fight between Hapa/DP that was consuming the thread. He saw two of his town reads going at each other and managed to get them to stop shitting the thread up and post logically. Scum could have egged it on, or not even posted. It's hard to reverse on something like a "huge town tell," especially when it is so specifically and cleanly rationalized. I dont' know how Yamato seemingly forgot about all of this. | ||
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1) You specifically mentioned that you were trying to make a stylistic change in the way you played, and it played a huge role in how you played the early game. Why did you not follow through, especially since you were making such a huge effort to do so? 2) How did you forget about your "Huge town tell" on CC during all of this? It's hard to believe that you forgot about something so specifically rationalized. You claim that his play seemingly got worse after Day 1 (at which point you started calling him scum), BUT this was very conveniently lined up with sentiments in the thread shifting against CC. | ||
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On January 09 2013 06:03 MrZentor wrote: Also, guys, Jay is town. So who is scum? Last game (Witchcraft), you were trying to push scumreads and your ideas. This game, your play has been devoid of it. | ||
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On January 09 2013 06:05 MrZentor wrote: Two of Yamato, Z Boson, and ShiaoPi are scum. So probably Yamato and ShiaoPi. Okeydoke. So explain then. | ||
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On January 09 2013 06:24 Hapahauli wrote: Why is jay most likely town at this point? | ||
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On January 09 2013 06:29 jaybrundage wrote: Hrrm I'm undecided on CC still. Given the fact that mafia can hold KP they could set this up to exonerate CC and give him "confirmed" townie status. They run into the risk of getting counter claimed by the real doctor. But it is a fifty percent shot that we don't have a doctor. Are those odds the mafia are willing to take I don't know. But its good to keep in mind. It's certainly possible, but very very unlikely. First of all, CC didn't have a high chance of getting lynched given my support of him. Why would he claim (with a 50% of getting insta-lynched from a counter-claim) as scum? It makes no sense. | ||
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On January 09 2013 06:45 jaybrundage wrote: But given that if Scum have a RB CC is now useless. Like if Scum couldn't hold on to KP i would of liked the claim more if we could count for sure that he is town. But i guess I see where your coming from It doesn't make much sense for scum. Ill withdraw my scum read on CC. HI town CC nice to meet ya :D The RB wouldn't affect much, since the kill order's likely going to be myself, then CC on the next night. Also no one has claimed being RB'd yet. | ||
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1) You specifically mentioned that you were trying to make a stylistic change in the way you played, and it played a huge role in how you played the early game. Why did you not follow through, especially since you were making such a huge effort to do so? It's your early stance on "not tunneling people to hell" this game that I want to hear you explain. | ||
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On January 08 2013 11:58 yamato77 wrote: ... You're full of shit. Die scum. On January 08 2013 11:54 yamato77 wrote: ... Man you're full of shit. On January 08 2013 11:51 yamato77 wrote: ... Stop claiming scum. On January 08 2013 11:48 yamato77 wrote: ... You're so scummy it's ridiculous. | ||
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On January 09 2013 07:51 yamato77 wrote: Yeah, did you bother to look at the bullshit he was spewing at the same time? One minute I'm scum, the next minute I'm not, etc. He was full if it. As I said, I refuse to apologize for it. We have a clear disagreement for how "bullshit" his comments were. | ||
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On January 09 2013 07:34 yamato77 wrote: ... How about YOU do some real scum hunting today or I lynch you. | ||
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On January 09 2013 08:06 yamato77 wrote: He's even managed to make attacking him a scum tell, for God's sake. As if he's done ANYTHING to prove he's town this game. Seriously? Attacking MrZ when he's town actually is a scumtell. It's funny but true. What have you done to prove that you're town? | ||
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On January 09 2013 08:01 yamato77 wrote: Zentor has done shit but call you and himself town this whole game and I'm the one you feel has a lack of contribution. The extent of your confirmation bias against me this game is astounding Hapa. Coming from you, this is fucking hilarious. | ||
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On January 09 2013 08:11 yamato77 wrote: Well I don't have some fancy claim in my back pocket to be confirmed town but I've hunted the scum I felt was here. You seem to think otherwise which is dumb but whatever, it's not like it matters that much to me. My job is to find scum this game, and you've gotten in the way if that every time I've tried, Hapa. What makes MrZ town? I have no fucking idea. Yes, I tend to get in the way when people tunnel townies. As for MrZ and You, it intuitively feels that one of you are scum, but I'm not sure which right now. | ||
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On January 09 2013 08:09 MrZentor wrote: Yamato's getting desperate. c: I shouldn't be the one pushing your scumread ya know? | ||
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Nah, I'm done giving my suspicions out to the thread just for you to sit there and criticize me for it. If you're town, I suggest you do. | ||
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On January 09 2013 08:22 yamato77 wrote: I'd have to give some filters a look but I'll wait for him to do something first because I've put plenty of effort into this game so far while he's done nothing. It's not your luxury to wait right now. If you're town, the best way for you to approach this is to prove you're town by being open with ALL of your reads. | ||
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On January 09 2013 10:16 jaybrundage wrote: Would you guys be down to lynch Yamato Tonite? Unfortunetly Shiapi hasn't chimed in much. Under no circumstances should we be lynching anyone until Shaio posts or gets replaced/modkilled. | ||
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On January 09 2013 10:22 MrZentor wrote: Hapa, you're being FAR too cautious. Yamato is clearly scum, so is ShaioPi. Nobody was killed last night. We can take one risk. (If you consider lynching scum while his scum buddy is gone a risk) PLEEAAAAAASSSEEEEEE No risks. Not dealing with Day 1 again. | ||
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On January 09 2013 10:44 Dandel Ion wrote: I am. Tho i understand you thinking otherwise. How caught-up are you into the game? You mentioned notes, but you basically called the two confirmed townies + the most obv-town player in the thread town so far. That's... not much. | ||
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On January 09 2013 10:45 MrZentor wrote: Dandel, since you're willing to lynch Yamato,can you vote for him? Hapa, since Shiao was replaced, can we lynch him now? That's fucking retarded. I need information from Dandel before we can move on. | ||
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On January 09 2013 10:50 Dandel Ion wrote: I did follow pretty closely up to... uhm night 1? or so then I kinda stopped. still read it casually tho I'm a bit tipsy atm, and not fully caught up, so I don't wanna vote pplz yet. Feel free to hammer him in the meantime if your so eager. I'm just gonna post the notes i did so far straight. I did em for me tho, so if ya dont understand something, jsut ask Sure thang. I'm really really interested in hearing who you think scum are. You think Yamato is one apparently, but how'bout the other? | ||
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On January 09 2013 10:58 MrZentor wrote: Quick question, Hapa, why do we need Dandel's opinion to lynch Yamato? Also, give me a name. + Show Spoiler + On January 09 2013 10:31 MrZentor wrote: Hapa, give me the name of somebody who could possibly be scum besides Yamato and ShiaoPi. And I'll show you why they're obvi town. Then, you will lynch Yamato. K? Because more information is never a bad thing. Hell we're only at 24 hours on the day, why rush? | ||
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What's so 'LOL' about it? | ||
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jay's case on town-CC: too many oneliners. ... wat Kill with fire. This just in, jay town. TOWN: Hapa, DP, CC, jay Maybe town: Zentor I never see why you have a town-read on Jay throughout your filter. | ||
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On January 09 2013 11:04 Dandel Ion wrote: Uh, like i said those were for me. I can change my mind whenever i want. I'll see if I can find the part. brb. I get it's non-alignment indicative, but I'm just curious about your analysis. | ||
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On January 09 2013 11:08 Dandel Ion wrote: Ah yeah it was this one (and the ones closely after): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=22#429 The emotion feels very genuine. Ofc scum would also be happy, but it didn't feel like a scummy happiness to me. So who would be your scumteam right now? | ||
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On January 09 2013 11:10 Dandel Ion wrote: Most likely is yamato + Zbo imo. yamato + zentor possible, but I admit I have no clue how to read that guy. Why Z-Bo? A lot of people took his entrance into the game as very pro-town. | ||
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If you want me to vote Yamato, build me a case that 100% convinces me he's scum. I'm not going to vote on process of elimination (atleast not now). | ||
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On January 09 2013 11:16 yamato77 wrote: You're not supposed to let out our secret MrZ. Remember when you were yelling at people to be useful? Oh those were the times... | ||
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On January 09 2013 11:14 Dandel Ion wrote: Mostly elimination, I admit, since I can remove myself from the suspects. Like I apply myself as the town i am, and all my townreads to the list of people, and yamato and Zboson were left over. I didn't look very hard into him personally, yet, since he replaced after I stopped following super-closely. But I gotta say: Doesn't sound rly convinced. Do YOU have a townread on Zbo? I have opinions on Z-Bo, but I'd rather not talk about them right now, since I'm the last person people need to hear from at the moment. | ||
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What will it be? | ||
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On January 09 2013 11:23 yamato77 wrote: What is it you think I should be doing, repeating myself over and over about why I want to lynch Zentor like he's doing with me? I'm gauging Dandel at the moment because the person he replaced could definitely have been the other scum. Otherwise, I highly doubt you, DP, or Zbo are scum. Jay probably isn't either, from what I've been reading of his filter. Any analysis would help. You screaming MrZ is useless/scum won't get you anywhere. Read filters, post cases, etc. Like you have a town read on Jay all of a sudden. Why? What's the reasoning? Why would you put Z-Bo in the same category as two confirmed townies? | ||
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On January 09 2013 11:30 yamato77 wrote: What is in Zentor's filter besides "lynch people, I'm confirmed town, you're confirmed town, lynch this guy"? It's a pretty accurate assessment IMO. Do you really want me to pick out all the posts where he does exactly this? Reasoning on Jay. Go. Hell you're trying to "gauge Dandel Ion" right now, but you haven't asked him a single question. How do you guage a guy who just replaced in without talking to him? | ||
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On January 09 2013 11:42 yamato77 wrote: I'm reading what you're asking him. There's not much for me to add to what you want him to do, heh. There's not a single thing you want to ask Dandel, who is apparently the only person you can see flipping scum other than MrZ? | ||
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On January 09 2013 11:47 yamato77 wrote: No, I said you're already asking him the questions I want answers to. Do you have free time tomorrow? Because I want you to take over for me in that regard. | ||
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Who do you think is scum right now DP? | ||
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On January 09 2013 11:58 DarthPunk wrote: Two of dandel, Jay, MR Z MAYBE, MAYBE ZB is in that group. But that is a far more difficult proposition. Also. Hapa CC and I are all confirmed town. So you can trust our intentions completely if you are town. I think Dandel has the highest chance of flipping scum. The problem is, lynching replacements early is generally a terrible play. | ||
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Before the Day 1 lynch deadline, you thought Shaio was scum. In fact, you had this rather strong statement in one of your posts: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=26#513 Either he or Xatalos is scum, I'm not sure which. It's pretty unlikely that they're both scum, considering how they both made cases on why the other is scum. Since then, you've never really pushed the idea of wanting to lynch Shaio, which is really odd. You've mentioned "Shaio is scum" a bunch of times in your filter: On January 09 2013 06:05 MrZentor wrote: Two of Yamato, Z Boson, and ShiaoPi are scum. So probably Yamato and ShiaoPi. On January 09 2013 06:12 MrZentor wrote: Confirmed town Hapahauli MrZentor Mr. CheeseCake Most Probably Town jaybrundage DarthPunk I Hate to Think He's Town, but He Probably Is Z-Boson Scum yamato77 ShiaoPi Not once have you ever explained why you think Shaio is scum, nor have you ever attempted to pressure him. Other than that, you've been pushing anti-town objectives (rushed lynches on both days). The only case you've really pushed is the one against Yamato, and you're not even pushing it. You're just kicking him while he's down. In a game where I have reasons to think everyone is town for one reason or another (except for Shaio), I have to turn to the person that's pushing mafia objectives. And that's you right now. Because Jay seems townie. As does Z-Bo (though his lack of activity is concerning of late) And even Yamato - he's been a dick to me all game, and that's a pretty huge town-tell. Eywa- 2.0 so far, and I think DP's right about him. What's left is you, and the only reason I have to think you're town is a meta argument. And in all your town-games, you atleast attempt to push reads and scumhunt. You're really not doing much this game at all. | ||
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Anywho, I just find Shaio's play scummy. We'll see what Dandel brings to the table, but there are a few things I don't like about Dandels posting so far. For example, he's really really down for a Yamato lynch, yet barely mentions Yamato at all in his notes. As for MrZ, I thought I explained it really clearly in my previous posts. I'm not sure what to think of MrZ. Meta does suggest he's town, however he's been pushing a lot of mafia objectives this game. He's been rushing lynches, he hasn't been pushing his reads much, and when he does, he just kinda locked into the idea of you being scum and kicked you when you were down. Like this post. I hate this post so much. On January 09 2013 07:46 MrZentor wrote: By the way, Hapa, I've changed my mind. I'd like to delay the lynch. Watching Yamato struggle as scum is hilarious. XD | ||
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Scum have huge incentives in this format to pile on one wagon. One major scum objective is to make the day end as quick as possible, as infinitely long days create more discussion. The second, is that the game is sufficiently small enough (2 man scum-team) where distancing isn't much of a concern. It's very dangerous to bus (you potentially lose 50% of your team), and scum probably won't pay much attention to that in a small game. | ||
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Won't lie, I really want to lynch you right now. Mainly for this: On January 09 2013 10:40 Dandel Ion wrote: I'd totally lynch yamato. Other scum most likely Zbo. On January 09 2013 10:42 Dandel Ion wrote: btw I would have lynched Shiao after yamato too, but can we like, not do that now? Would be nice. What is even the point of these comments? The only purpose for stuff like this is to agree with people, and not to serve any town objectives. You just replaced in, and you even admitted to not being fully caught up: On January 09 2013 10:50 Dandel Ion wrote: I did follow pretty closely up to... uhm night 1? or so then I kinda stopped. still read it casually tho I'm a bit tipsy atm, and not fully caught up, so I don't wanna vote pplz yet. Feel free to hammer him in the meantime if your so eager. I'm just gonna post the notes i did so far straight. I did em for me tho, so if ya dont understand something, jsut ask Basically, you're down for lynching Yamato (despite rarely mentioning Yamato in your "notes") despite only being caught up to page 17. Then all of a sudden when you "read" the game: On January 09 2013 23:47 Dandel Ion wrote: Yeah no, yamato is prob town. | ||
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Welcome back Z-Bo! I am rather concerned about your recent activity of late. As well as you calling MrZ scum over and over again without actually having voted him. | ||
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"Yes I'd be down for lynching a guy based on the first 33% of the game." WTF is the point of saying that? | ||
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On January 10 2013 04:21 Z-BosoN wrote: Concerned how? I've been busy. Also, I'm not placing my vote because I don't want to start an avalanche like last time, I thought you yourself wanted to drag this on longer... Well yes, but you've been 100% convinced that MrZ is scum for the better part of the last 2 days. | ||
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On January 10 2013 04:23 Dandel Ion wrote: what is the point in pointing this out? If it was pointless, you wouldn't say it was scummy. You'd say it was pointless. But you're not doing that. So I think you understand that there is a merit to it. Unfortunately for me, you assume a mafia merit, but whatevs. The point is, you don't even think yourself that they are pointless, as I pointed out. So your question is redundant. It's pointless from a town perspective. From a scum-perspective, I can think of many ways to rationalize what you did. Fanning the flames of a Yamato lynch, wanting to agree with the town for the sake of agreeing, etc. | ||
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It's kinda implied from your filter given that he's been your top scumread forevvvvvver and has done nothing to vindicate himself in your eyes since. | ||
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On January 10 2013 04:25 Z-BosoN wrote: This makes zero sense. Scum are much more likely to give townreads. It is also troubling on how convinced he seems to be. I need some confirmation from you hapa, but in witchcraft did he also insistently just keep saying "I know he is town, I know he is scum, lynch him"? Because that sums up a large portion of what Mr.Z has been doing lately. Also, his attitude is anti-town, he doesn't promote discussion with it and doesn't add anything. Surely you can read through his Witchcraft game and find this out for yourself no? | ||
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On January 10 2013 04:37 Z-BosoN wrote: Or I can save time by asking a quasi-confirmed townie who's played with him on something that's pretty much a yes or no question >.< I'll add that to my todo list Sorry, but I need to see you do analysis. It also would take all of 10 minutes. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=57#1138 | ||
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On January 10 2013 08:56 jaybrundage wrote: Hapa needs to fucking vote. Not voting in two lynches is bad Tell me why exactly a confirmed town should be rushed into voting? | ||
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On January 10 2013 09:59 jaybrundage wrote: Thats part of it. But i also explained it a bit somewhere in my filter You actually didn't. | ||
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On January 10 2013 09:39 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Because this mislynch needs pushing. And fast. CC, 'splain this a bit? | ||
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On January 10 2013 10:07 MrZentor wrote: Why is Hapa ignoring me? Kinda sick of the "lynch NAO" stuff. I'll vote him when I feel like it. | ||
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On January 10 2013 10:15 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: what about jay / yamato scumteam. maybe mrz jay lol Team "Lynch-Bait" would be pretty funny, but I don't see it likely at this point. | ||
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Zbo, jay and MrZ are all scum. Disregard numbers. They're all 3 scum. This doesn't go a long way to proving you're town Dandel. | ||
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Who's the scumteam then? Because this reads as a scumclaim to me: Zbo, jay and MrZ are all scum. Disregard numbers. They're all 3 scum. | ||
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Zbo, jay and MrZ are all scum. Disregard numbers. They're all 3 scum. | ||
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If he's town, it's his own damn fault for being a retard. I highly doubt that's the case right now. | ||
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That, and I'll ring your neck post-game. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 10 2013 11:22 MrZentor wrote: I hope that's a joke. Because you don't misread me. If you say I'm scum and I'm not, I know you're scum. And obviously everybody will lynch me over you, and scum will win. <3 Ya Hapa It's not a joke. You've been pushing mafia objectives all game. You've been refusing to scumhunt, and settling for "process of elimination" lynches. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 10 2013 11:24 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: So why is Yamato town again? His frustration? Could easily be frustrated scum lashing out. He even said that I was "wasting time" by acting scummy towards him, when we have infinite time... My view is that he was making suicidal plays under pressure. Anyway, I'll see y'all tomorrow. Have some reading to do. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 10 2013 11:27 MrZentor wrote: And are you going to claim this is my new scum meta? Pushing mafia objectives doesn't mean I'm scum. And I think a town Hapa would realize this.. I have not seen one of your town games where I could accuse you of pushing mafia objectives. This game, I have a littany: 1) Your filter is devoid of actual analysis and scum-hunting. 2) You've been pushing rushed lynches on both days. 3) This post: On January 09 2013 07:46 MrZentor wrote: By the way, Hapa, I've changed my mind. I'd like to delay the lynch. Watching Yamato struggle as scum is hilarious. XD | ||
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On January 10 2013 11:27 MrZentor wrote: Yamato's scum. You better tell me why, because "I have a town-read on everyone else" is not going to cut it. | ||
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On January 10 2013 11:33 MrZentor wrote: Killing people for pushing mafia objective might be the worst way to scum hunt. So what other diagnostic would you suggest? | ||
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On January 10 2013 11:36 MrZentor wrote: Whichever one gets Yamato lynched tomorrow Who's scum #2? | ||
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On January 10 2013 11:38 MrZentor wrote: idk If I'm scum, who's scum number 2? Very simple MrZ - scumhunt or die tomorrow. I'm not putting up with this crap anymore. | ||
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Hapahauli
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Hapahauli
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On January 10 2013 11:22 MrZentor wrote: I hope that's a joke. Because you don't misread me. If you say I'm scum and I'm not, I know you're scum. And obviously everybody will lynch me over you, and scum will win. <3 Ya Hapa So why, exactly are you trusting me again MrZ? | ||
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On January 10 2013 12:21 MrZentor wrote: Can you do everything you once could? Did you magically forget how to read filters since christmas? | ||
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On January 10 2013 13:17 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: No need Yamato we've got the scumteam wrapped up in fine linen for us. We don't really need to be discouraging discussion right now. | ||
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Hapahauli
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You summarizing the analysis of a townie that decided to mega-derp doesn't go much in the way of helping things. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 10 2013 11:22 MrZentor wrote: I hope that's a joke. Because you don't misread me. If you say I'm scum and I'm not, I know you're scum. And obviously everybody will lynch me over you, and scum will win. <3 Ya Hapa On January 10 2013 11:56 MrZentor wrote: ... And, if I were scum, that's exactly what I would do. I would pretend to scumhunt. But I'm going to do something much, much more difficult. I'm going to not post, at all. I'm going to resist that temptation. Because a scum would, before getting lynched, spam the thread with their "scumhunting" in a desperate attempt at not getting lynched. I'm going to prove I'm town by trusting your choice of a lynch, something a scum would never be able to do. I think you (deep down) know I'm town, so I would suggest you lynch Yamato. I hope you make the right decision, Hapa. The second I call you scum, you OMGUS me. Then within a span of an hour, you back down and are willing to trust me 100% again. | ||
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Oh well. Here are my thoughts on where things stand right now: MrZ is NOT an automatic lynch tomorrow! As "scummy" as his actions are, lynching him is more of a coin-flip than many of us would like to admit. You can't lynch a fundamentally illogical player for doing illogical things. I also think the MrZ wagon is coming together far too easily. Tomorrow is a day where y'all need to sit back and objectively consider things. Patience. The words of syllogism ring in my mind: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351398¤tpage=60#1195 On July 30 2012 08:16 syllogism wrote: For future reference if someone is getting lynched in a lylo with no resistance at all, you probably aren't on the right track Yamato is the closest thing I have to a town read amongst the unconfirmed players: Yamato has been making too many plays that I would deem too suicidal to be scum in my opinion. He OMGUS voted me very early in the game when I was pressuring him, and him being angry at CC seems very genuine - moreso than anything else in this game. I'm quite concerned about Z-Bo: Z-Bo entered this game posting frequently and a lot, but when I look at his filter, it occurred to me that he really hasn't pushed his reads in any meaningful ways. Z-Bo has been latched onto MrZ for most of the game and MrZ has seemingly been his top scumread. However, Z-Bo has been surprisingly content to jump onto other wagons. It's not something I can point to specific posts in his filter, but something you see after reading his filter as a whole. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112&user=28495&user=28495 When Mr.CC was being pushed by Yamato and DP, Z-Boson really sat on the sidelines and watched things. He probes CC with a couple of questions, and even mentions him as a scumread. But he's never really aggressive, nor does he lobby for votes... he just kinda pokes at him repeatedly. Also, I found this post really uncharacteristic of Z-Boson: On January 08 2013 16:07 Z-BosoN wrote: With that being said I'll take a better look at CC tomorrow. He's been quite active, and I'd rather lynch into people who don't really seem to give a shit. Z-Boson basically ignores his scumread against CC, and is deciding who to lynch based on diagnostics of activity - RATHER than actual scumminess. This is all the more strange, considering he was soft-defending ShaioPi at this point in the game (who was mega-lurking). Z-Bo repeats this process with Yamato, offering several pokes but never following up. On January 09 2013 07:04 Z-BosoN wrote: Also, I like Hapa's observation on yamato on his stance on CC, I hand't seen his "huge town read" earlier. Wonder what changed his mind Then he dismisses yamato on another strange diagnostic: I'm not too interested in yamato, his play has been pretty active, and was very persistent in his reads. Newer players generally don't behave so, especially with someone like hapa pressuring them the other way. I started flinging shit at you as soon as I caught up the thread, in which I saw a fairly understandable scum read turn into a "prob town read" for.... crap. Again, changing on a read based on activity rather than scumminess. Also, he just re-hashes a lot of what DP said in this post. All and all, I'm surprised that Z-Bo hasn't been all that assertive this game. He's relied on my approval for a lot of things as opposed to pushing for answers himself. As for Jay... God I don't know. There are a lot of posts that make me go "WTF" in his filter. An example is when he said me not voting in two lynches looked "bad." I can also go back to the early-game where he was on DP about scumslips. What's making me lean scum on him right now is how he's all of a sudden willing to lynch MrZ after hard-defending the fuck out of him for all of yesterday. Also, he's attacking yamato for not being willing to insta-lynch MrZ, which is really strange: On January 10 2013 16:44 jaybrundage wrote: We can lynch anyone at anypoint. If it's very unlikely that hes town then why wouldn't you just lynch him? You should always lynch your best scum read. Never ever save a lynch for later on someone you think is scum. The flipside is that he made posts that we can construe as "genuine," but at this stage of the game, I don't believe that's a legitimate reason to think that someone is town. My raw gut-feeling on the scumteam is the combo of Z-Bo and Jay. My brain says MrZ, but my gut is usually right on these things. Wish I had more time. Sorry I couldn't leave y'all with more. GL HF, and I hope what I've left is of help to you guys =) | ||
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I didn't read any of Jay's case, but something's really strange about his ability to bomb such a giant case with such conviction given how unsure he was yesterday. | ||
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Hapahauli
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Didn't have time 2 play today. Also, the whole reason we're in this mess is because the town has been too dependent on me for discussion rather than generating discussion themselves. If you're town, you have the opportunity to prove me wrong in the next few hours and tomorrow. | ||
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Also, it looks like I'll be phone-posting some. Weeeeeeeeeeee | ||
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On January 11 2013 08:46 Z-BosoN wrote: Yea but then when I came in you backed off and left it to me to sprout discussion. Discussion in which I tried to include you in and now is being referred to as "seeking approval". The approval stuff is wider than that. I keep telling you not to do it, and you kept doing it. Anyway, u still sold on MrZ/Jay scumteam? | ||
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Hapahauli
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That makes a terrible amount of sense. | ||
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On January 11 2013 08:59 MrZentor wrote: Hapa, you need to tell Jay that I'm not scum. He obviously won't listen to me, because to him I'm scum. If he votes with scum tomorrow (Z-Boson, Yamato), they will have half the votes, and we won't be able to lynch them. Well I'm not 100% sure you're town. If you're town, don't use me as a crutch. You have plenty of opportunities tomorrow prove you're town if you're town. | ||
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On January 11 2013 09:05 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Jay Yamato scumteam I want it to happen. Thing is.. if Jay was bussing Mr. Z, I think Mr. Z would be screaming that he's scum right now. I still don't get how he thinks Jay is town. Don't apply logic to fundamentally illogical players. Big no no, whatever his alignment is | ||
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too many Zs | ||
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Honestly I don't see a scum team that doesn't include you. Jay/Z was likely but is becoming less probable. With the posting of this case though, you fail to explain your scum read on Z-Bo at all. It seems he's only scum because of some process of elimination. No, what you're doing here is considering who you think you can get mislynched tomorrow, because that wins you the game. You've never really tried to get Z-Bo lynched this entire game, you've focused on getting me lynched, a townie. It's sure easy to bus your partner if he's never had any votes on him, isn't it? The same could be said for Z-bo, in that you've never really been in any danger of getting lynched until now, and right now no one is getting lynched. Could definitely see Z/Z scum team as a possibility. It sounds silly on its face, like I said before, but it's all WIFOM at some point. How on earth do you rationalize Z-BO scum from this logic? | ||
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On January 11 2013 10:43 yamato77 wrote: I'm not saying anything "out of my ass". If I believe Zentor is scum, which I do, then I have to consider his scum partner at this point, and there are only two people who could possibly be that, which is Jay and Boson. I've covered exactly why each one does and doesn't make sense to me in my filter. It's far more suspicious that he is so convinced of Jay's towniness that he, if town, would risk losing the game straight up to jay/yamato scum team just to lynch Z-Boson. Wat the fuck? Why would he be suspicious of a guy he has a town read on? | ||
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On January 11 2013 10:47 yamato77 wrote: Oh yeah, I wrote that gigantic post all in ten minutes, you're so smart. I didn't even see your stupid post before now. I'd also put forth the idea of a Z/Z scum team before this point, in my analysis of the game state after Dandel's lynch. Yeah, no. You're just making shit up now. Yeah. You put forth the idea and said it wasn't likely. You also summarized the analysis of a dead townie rather than doing anything on your own. | ||
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Hapahauli
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Too active. Cares too much. Too much scum-hunting right now. | ||
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On January 11 2013 10:49 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I'm going to sheep Hap and say lynch Yamato tomorrow. Not quite sold on this yet. Yam is acting quite sketchy though. His last two major posts have been nothing but summaries and ramblings. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 11 2013 10:52 jaybrundage wrote: GET ON THE HAPA TRAIN ALLLLLLL ABBOAAAAARRRRRRDDDDDDDD But i agree that Mr.Z has done a great job FINALLY coming thru. Another thing we should look up, Is why the lynch on Yamato got diverted in the first place. What the fuck? How the hell? Your case? | ||
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Hapahauli
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How the hell does stuff like that come that easily? GAH. You were foaming at the mouth that he was scum. | ||
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Z-Bo, Yamato GG GL HF | ||
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On January 12 2013 04:17 yamato77 wrote: If I had been there during Dandel's lynch I might have defended him just to increase Zentor's paranoia about the both of us. Hapa I'm sorry I did what I did this game. I have great respect for you as a player but I had to be so stupid you would never believe I was scum. It almost worked. No worries! And I'm sorry for basically cursing you out at several points in the game >> I really didn't think your confrontational attitude would translate over to your scum-game, but now I know =O | ||
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