|
Welcome, Z-Boson! I'm glad you're being very townish and contributive so far, which means we have one less player out of the lynching table (I didn't like lynching RiseAgain either, but this is a much easier judgement than that).
On January 06 2013 15:35 Z-BosoN wrote:Allright, caught up. What concerns me about Xatalos, as you can see in the spreadsheet is this post: Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 22:20 Xatalos wrote:On January 05 2013 15:00 DarthPunk wrote:On January 05 2013 14:52 Hapahauli wrote:On January 05 2013 14:48 DarthPunk wrote:On January 05 2013 14:46 Hapahauli wrote:On January 05 2013 14:45 DarthPunk wrote:
oh and If I had to lynch now and hapa was dead. hmmm. dunno I would need to read more filters. Actually I would wait to vote until something solid comes up. Remember when you called Xatalos scummy as shit? Yeah I guess you forgot about that huh? Yeah. He is. But I am not certain. Holy fuck dude I change my mind and am unsure as a townie with no info on day one. That doesn't sound plausible at all now does it? Yeah, but how the hell did you change your mind so quickly? You just called Xatalos "scummy as shit" barely an hour ago. Then all of a sudden you're unsure again? Holy fuck. What do you not understand about this. I am town. I have no additional info. I have to figure shit out. The way I figure shit out is to have ideas and then alter these ideas with changing info or more thought applied to the problem. Whilst I was flaming with you I was thinking about Xatalos. Now the thing about Xatalos is that he is a pretty bad townie. He likes to sheep and he changes his mind. Changing your mind is a pretty bad thing to do as scum because people such as yourself for some reason view it as scummy, and as scum you don't need to change your mind. You can defend someone you know will flip town and be fully justified in doing that later when he flips. You can also tunnel people as long as they aren't your buddies, and even then you can do so. So changing his mind/sheeping was originally scummy but not with some further thought applied. His list post irks me as all lists post do in general HOWEVER re reading it actually contained decent content and seemed to fit someone trying to figure shit out. Not scummy. So. He is back to null after reevaluation and I need to figure some other shit out. Savvy? Hmm.. Posts like this are the reason why I originally viewed DP as townish. From time to time there are scummy traits in his filter (angriness, contradictions...) but then again, there are many posts where he appears to genuinely try solving the game. For example this earlier post of his: On January 05 2013 06:16 DarthPunk wrote:
I don;t like either of the 'cases' to be perfectly honest.
Rise is completely null to me. And to be honest you are the one picking a fight with rise. There should be one read due to Rises' aggression and that is null. I thought that you were simply following up on him in order to push the town to be active. However you trying to drum up support for a bandwagon based of something that any player of your calibre should KNOW is a null tell is not 'potentially scummy' it IS scummy. and it has me worried.
Since when do you call things 'potentially scummy' anyway??? sounds really fucking off to be honest.
Yeah it was a WTF post from yamato initially. But his explanation, willingness to be open and transparent, and the fact that his original WTF post turned out to be an exercise in an open thought process give me a town read on yamato at this juncture.
And once again I am wondering how the fuck a town hapa is not reaching the same conclusions as myself and is pushing the wagons of two people who are null at worst.
These well thought-out and contentful posts about several players seem like something Mafia would have a hard time doing. Not impossible, of course, but they just fit town agenda a lot better. Combined with DP's relatively high activity and the speed at which the ghost bandwagon for him gained support, I don't really feel comfortable lynching him today. There's also the point that in my experience, a town vs town flamewar is the most obvious explanation for a fight between active players. With that said, there are some things in his filter that I don't like. DP, if you're there, I want your take on the following matters. On January 05 2013 07:04 DarthPunk wrote:What was on top of my agenda was figuring out hapa as you are the scariest player in this game, and if I could get a solid town read on you we could roll these scum. Unfortunately you went retard and or are scum so now I have to deal with a hapa tunnelling me based on On January 05 2013 06:54 Hapahauli wrote:
Straight-up OMGUS and a sprinkle of gut-feeling. You scum brah. All the while I am somehow illogical despite having really solid reasoning and you just ignoring that to serve your OMGUS agenda. Well, that is cool with me HAPA. I don't have to convince you you are scum. I just have to convince the town. And that should be straightforward after this little party we have been having together. I just can't wrap my head around this post. Here's what it basically says: 1) Hapa is the best player in this game 2) He's a retard and/or scum 3) He's definitely scum Where's the coherency and logic in all this? You called me out for switching my opinions in the time of 1-2 hours, but you're switching your opinions even inside the same post... It makes me think this could all be fake reasoning, only aimed at pushing an agenda, not finding the truth. And why is it so bad for Hapa to push weak cases? What it does is create discussion and draw opinions, likely even hints to several players' alignments, and simply there almost CAN'T be any strong cases this early. So it's infinitely better to push a weak case than merely talk policy or semantics. I have a hard time seeing why this makes Hapa scum exactly? - - - Alright. I don't have any strong scumreads at the moment, but... There are two players I'm considering for today. Mr. Cheesecake- Lots of one-liners that add nothing to the thread - So far his only suspect is me, based on my uncertainty about DP... and nothing else to add to the discussion? - A reasonable amount of posts, but basically nothing of value except the (weak) case on me - Generally being quite forgettable and blending in without drawing attention at all yamato77- Voting for Mr. Cheesecake since... why? - Weird logic and reasoning... scrambling for something to back up his opinions? - Practically nothing useful in his (short) filter - Talking almost exclusively about meta/policy/semantics, nothing really meaningful related to this game His bit on DP reads to me as a biiiig over-justification. What is he trying to accomplish on DP? What is the purpose of beggining by stating why DP looks town, and then refuting it? Xatalos, I'd like you to better explain this post, so I can better understand where you are coming from.
The reason I have conflicting arguments about DP's alignment is because I have conflicting feelings about him. Some posts he seems townish, some posts scummy. By the way, he still hasn't responded to any of my questions earlier... Even though he has posted a reasonable amount since then. That doesn't make me feel too good about him, but it's not like we're lynching him anyways (there are so many people who are hiding in plain sight compared to him), so I'd rather not focus on him for now.
It's true that MrZentor has been quite passive and non-contributing, but he was somewhat like this in Paranoia Mafia as well (and he was town). And I got a townish feel from the discussion we had earlier in the thread. I don't feel like he's a good lynch.
I said I was ready to vote for Mr. Cheesecake, but somehow I don't feel like it's a sufficiently justifiable lynch. He's had some townish posting lately and my read on him wasn't strong to begin with. But there's someone else I want to discuss...
ShiaoPi
The first thing that doesn't seem right is this post:
On January 05 2013 12:14 ShiaoPi wrote:Hmm looks like RiseAgain has still not responded.... Anyway moving onto the matters more at hand for now. I don't think that DP or Hapa are scum, it feels much more like townies at each others throats for minor things. While I can see where both are coming from during the exchange I does kind of worry me that DP does not follow up with a vote as Hapa does. Does not seem to fit when he calls him scum more than once earlier. @Mr.CC Xatalos is kind of a lynchbait in itself. He is not that easy to read (at least for me), but what I have seen so far from him does not really convince me on his scumminess. From time to time he does these 180-turns but usually it is because he lays his entire thoughtprocess out and therefore every nook and turn of his mind is in the thread. He is nullish right now. I want to see more from RiseAgain, so ##Vote: RiseAgainget in here and do something please! 
I agree with his points about Hapa/DP and myself, but then comes the weird "pressure" vote. It reminds me so much of an earlier game where one Mafia player made a similar pressure vote without ANY conviction. There's even a double (over?)justification for this vote (I want to see more from him - VOTE - do something please). It feels like just a ploy to appear scumhunting with pressure, but that pressure is so weak and apologetic that it doesn't look like he even tried to accomplish anything. It's just all too indifferent about gaining any new information and basically voting for the sake of having voted.
On January 05 2013 12:26 ShiaoPi wrote:
Right now I am torn between the two of jaybrundage and yamato77.
More tending towards yamato77 for his meltdown in logic as jaybrundage has done nothing, which is bad but not necessarily scum
On January 05 2013 12:26 ShiaoPi wrote:
EBWOP: oh and someone I would be more reluctant to lynch but could agree to is DP
Just listing possible lynch candidates without much (or any in DP's case) reasoning, and putting his foot pre-emptively in a lot of bandwagons. Not advancing the thread, not scumhunting, merely agreeing to lynch several players.
On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
I am interested currently in these people:
yamato
Xatalos
MrZ
yamato:
There are many things which would probably be me reiterating stuff that was mentioned (discrepancy in behaviour as hapa said). Not being really present, throwing votes around with little reasoning. But that can be explained by his lack of time due to RL business. could really use more analysis and reasoning from him.
Xatalos:
I said earlier that Xatalos is a lynchbait. That is because he is hesitating a lot, laying out a lot of his thoughts in the thread and therefore opening himself up for harsh critique if he changes his mind and posts it. His lack of any stance is alarming though. While it is somewhat just his playstyle (IIRC) I still dislike it a lot, I mean day 1 has been going for quite a long time now already, while we did not get more information through lynching there is still a lot of content to search through and find something.
MrZ:
He is useless, which is stupidly just his meta with the lightheartedness he has shown. I don't like useless people but cannot condemn him based on this.
Actually I started this post with wanting to lynch into Xata/yamato preferrably yamato but now that I am writing those reads feel just unsatisfying...There is nothing really much that distinguishes one option from the other. I am reluctant to lynch yamato since he seems legitimately busy, also relcutant to lynch Xata for just playing as he does (same goes for MrZ).
Somehow this day 1 has not been really productive >_>
All of his stances are neutral and weak. Although it's a bit hypocritical since I've been hesitant as well, but when he was town in our earlier game together, he had VERY strong opinions and even hard defended a scum until he actually flipped red. When he was Mafia, he was very quiet and vague. This just feels like much more fitting his scum meta, although it's not a huge pool of evidence.
With this, I'm actually much more confident in ShiaoPi being scum than Mr. Cheesecake. It's also late in the day, so I guess it's about time to finally cast a vote.
##Vote ShiaoPi
|
yamato77, what do you think about ShiaoPi after reading this post?
|
On January 06 2013 19:02 yamato77 wrote:
Xatalos what the fuck is that post?
How is Shiao voting for a lurker who eventually got replaced scummy? He wants him to be more active, and somehow that's scum motivated?
His stances are not weak. He's been putting pressure on me since he made the post, and he wants to do so to you. It's not like he's just saying shit to say it.
And then this gem
"I guess it's about time to finally cast a vote"
Or in other words:
"I'm going to put this riiiiight here. Hopefully town doesn't think I'm scummy for this!"
That shit is weak, bro.
It's not about the vote itself, it's about the way he did it. What caused me to feel uneasy about it was this:
On April 12 2012 09:13 KharadBanar wrote:
So for the sake of pulling more active people into this thread I'm going to do something Kohbee did in Newbie VI to spark some discussion:
##Vote: HiroPro
I have no clue whether he is actually scum or not (he was in Newbie VI) but at least it will get him to talk.
This is a scum in one of my earlier games. It's a frighteningly similar situation. A scum makes a vote on a lurker, but is 0% convinced about the vote, and repeats that both before and after the vote to make it absolutely clear. Talk about overdoing it? And doesn't that completely destroy any meaning the pressure vote might have had? I'm just not seeing the town motivation for doing a weak fake pressure.
His stances are strong? He's been extremely hesitant and vague so far, not committing to absolutely anything. That's in stark contrast to his town meta that I know of.
|
On January 06 2013 19:11 ShiaoPi wrote:
@yamato:
While I like you doing more analysis, there is some stuff I do not agree with. Especially the first post you quoted with the guidelines on time. Hapa actually wanted a self-imposed deadline of 72h, which is something I did not agree to. So taking that quote from Zentor out of context makes it seem as it were all the time pushing for lynching somebody to end it the day. That is simply wrong. I can also sympathise with his sentiment that we really should start consolidating on someone by now. A much longer day 1 has negative effect on us imo.
You are right when you say that his play is not necessarily pro-town by now. But I can understand where he comes from to a certain degree, which explains why I said earlier that I am torn on all my candidates for today's lynch.
@Xatalos:
Nice that you have popped in, but not only are you dead wrong on me but your case is crap. I expected more than cherrypicking my filter for bits you can build something on.
I cannot even fathom how you critisize me for putting a vote on Rise as pressure when he had done jackshit at that moment.
The next two quotes are an answer to a question I was asked to. I was asked who the other options of mine were, I responded. Don't even see what is wrong with them as if you have studied my filter it is pretty clear why I listed each of them.
Now towards my stances being neutral and weak is stupid as shit. I posted my thoughts on the players I found suspicious at the moment and pressured them when they were around see the entire dialogue between me and yamato just above.
As icing on the cake you take a game from almost half a year back (which was also one of my newbie games) as a "meta-argument". That is a nice example of false usage of meta-arguments. If you want to study my meta at least take the most recent game in which I was town (which is LVII if I recall correctly) and compare it to this game...
This is just terribly bad and feels forced.
##vote: Xatalos
Right... That's an OMGUS if I ever saw one. It's much easier to judge based on a game you personally participated in, compared to some slightly newer game, but one that you've never played in. What's really your reason for voting me (except my suspicion of you)? Is there oven one?
|
On January 06 2013 19:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am voting you now because:
-flip flopping on DP in some logical inconsistencies earlier
-not committing at all earlier
-writing a terribly bad case for the sake of writing one to get some pressure off yourself.
call it OMGUS if you want, I don't think so.
Also you have been on my hitlist now, Zentor is not around so I cannot ask him stuff right now, I just asked yamato a bunch of stuff earlier. Leaving you and with that crap contribution you look like the best option for today's lynch
When was I under pressure...? I've just been trying find someone scummier than Mr. Cheesecake, but it's not an easy job, considering the relatively low activity and the high amount of townish/nullish players. There are many things in your filter that strike me as suspicious (mentioned earlier), and even though they're partly intuition and not solid proof, it's better than Mr. Cheesecake in my eyes (he started off under the radar but has had some engagement since then).
|
On January 06 2013 19:29 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 19:16 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:02 yamato77 wrote:
Xatalos what the fuck is that post?
How is Shiao voting for a lurker who eventually got replaced scummy? He wants him to be more active, and somehow that's scum motivated?
His stances are not weak. He's been putting pressure on me since he made the post, and he wants to do so to you. It's not like he's just saying shit to say it.
And then this gem
"I guess it's about time to finally cast a vote"
Or in other words:
"I'm going to put this riiiiight here. Hopefully town doesn't think I'm scummy for this!"
That shit is weak, bro. It's not about the vote itself, it's about the way he did it. What caused me to feel uneasy about it was this: On April 12 2012 09:13 KharadBanar wrote:
So for the sake of pulling more active people into this thread I'm going to do something Kohbee did in Newbie VI to spark some discussion:
##Vote: HiroPro
I have no clue whether he is actually scum or not (he was in Newbie VI) but at least it will get him to talk. This is a scum in one of my earlier games. It's a frighteningly similar situation. A scum makes a vote on a lurker, but is 0% convinced about the vote, and repeats that both before and after the vote to make it absolutely clear. Talk about overdoing it? And doesn't that completely destroy any meaning the pressure vote might have had? I'm just not seeing the town motivation for doing a weak fake pressure. His stances are strong? He's been extremely hesitant and vague so far, not committing to absolutely anything. That's in stark contrast to his town meta that I know of. Shiao had good reason to pressure vote the lurker here. He didn't just slap his vote somewhere just to have it there. No one this game has been super pushy with their reads or committed to them. It's beneficial to us as town that we don't make any bad decisions on lynches this game because of the mechanics of instant majority. Nothing he's done is scummy. You've certainly tried to make it looks so, but it isn't, and it makes me think you're just looking for an excuse to vote someone.
You keep focusing on the vote itself. But look at how he did it. There's absolutely zero conviction in it, and he states it clearly, making it a complete fake pressure. It's almost a negative vote with how much he downplays it.
|
On January 06 2013 19:41 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 19:36 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am voting you now because:
-flip flopping on DP in some logical inconsistencies earlier
-not committing at all earlier
-writing a terribly bad case for the sake of writing one to get some pressure off yourself.
call it OMGUS if you want, I don't think so.
Also you have been on my hitlist now, Zentor is not around so I cannot ask him stuff right now, I just asked yamato a bunch of stuff earlier. Leaving you and with that crap contribution you look like the best option for today's lynch When was I under pressure...? I've just been trying find someone scummier than Mr. Cheesecake, but it's not an easy job, considering the relatively low activity and the high amount of townish/nullish players. There are many things in your filter that strike me as suspicious (mentioned earlier), and even though they're partly intuition and not solid proof, it's better than Mr. Cheesecake in my eyes (he started off under the radar but has had some engagement since then). Several people have mentioned you as a possible lynch candidate that qualifies as under pressure. I would really be interested in those "many things" in my filter that are suspicious, I already answered the ones you quoted earlier. Please show them to me, I don't even know where you find them. Anyway I am out for dinner now. See you later.
Okay... I guess that counts as pressure, although I haven't been even remotely in a dangerous spot until now. But this always happens to me when I'm town at some point, so I'm not too worried yet.
Are you saying you were really pressuring RiseAgain? I just can't see anything but a weak fake pressure in that. Merely voting for someone without any actual pressure doesn't count as pressure. Some other players in this game have thrown away weak votes as well, but at least they tried to create some pressure. You didn't even try - the opposite, you openly said it was only an empty vote beforehand.
Why were you suddenly okay with lynching DP when he started to gain a bandwagon for himself? All I can see is an opportunistic (yet extremely vague) move to potentially get rid of an active player. And when the bandwagon started to crumble, you suddenly dropped him from your suspects without saying a word about it. It feels like you're just trying to get someone lynched, and it doesn't really matter who.
|
On January 06 2013 20:01 jaybrundage wrote:Good to see you make a case Xatltos. Ill reread ShaioPi's filter when i get a chance. Also Yamato i also think Zentor could be scummy. Alot of people have a town read on him it could jsut be his meta but hes done some pretty scummy things 
Hmm. I feel like MrZentor has been passive, but he's engaged in many discussions and generally been pretty open and careless. I think he's more townish now than in Paranoia Mafia (where he was town and just sheeped extremely passively).
|
On January 06 2013 21:27 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 20:05 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:41 ShiaoPi wrote:On January 06 2013 19:36 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am voting you now because:
-flip flopping on DP in some logical inconsistencies earlier
-not committing at all earlier
-writing a terribly bad case for the sake of writing one to get some pressure off yourself.
call it OMGUS if you want, I don't think so.
Also you have been on my hitlist now, Zentor is not around so I cannot ask him stuff right now, I just asked yamato a bunch of stuff earlier. Leaving you and with that crap contribution you look like the best option for today's lynch When was I under pressure...? I've just been trying find someone scummier than Mr. Cheesecake, but it's not an easy job, considering the relatively low activity and the high amount of townish/nullish players. There are many things in your filter that strike me as suspicious (mentioned earlier), and even though they're partly intuition and not solid proof, it's better than Mr. Cheesecake in my eyes (he started off under the radar but has had some engagement since then). Several people have mentioned you as a possible lynch candidate that qualifies as under pressure. I would really be interested in those "many things" in my filter that are suspicious, I already answered the ones you quoted earlier. Please show them to me, I don't even know where you find them. Anyway I am out for dinner now. See you later. Okay... I guess that counts as pressure, although I haven't been even remotely in a dangerous spot until now. But this always happens to me when I'm town at some point, so I'm not too worried yet. Are you saying you were really pressuring RiseAgain? I just can't see anything but a weak fake pressure in that. Merely voting for someone without any actual pressure doesn't count as pressure. Some other players in this game have thrown away weak votes as well, but at least they tried to create some pressure. You didn't even try - the opposite, you openly said it was only an empty vote beforehand. Why were you suddenly okay with lynching DP when he started to gain a bandwagon for himself? All I can see is an opportunistic (yet extremely vague) move to potentially get rid of an active player. And when the bandwagon started to crumble, you suddenly dropped him from your suspects without saying a word about it. It feels like you're just trying to get someone lynched, and it doesn't really matter who. So I am back. Where did I say I was really pressuring Rise? I clearly said it was to get him to post, since I had questions for him, that I wanted to answer. It is blatantly clear in my filter. I was not "suddenly" okay with lynching DP, stop misrepresenting facts. Mr.CC asked me who my other possible candidates were. That was after the first episode of DP/Hapa-shitfest but before the entire wagon on him started. I was active during the increasing pressure on DP, being part of it myself, before I had to leave cause of RL matters. How is it opportunistic for me to be one of the persons being there while the pressure added up, when I really thought that he might be red?? The bandwagon started to crumble because DP was doing some really townish posts, thing is I was not in the thread at that time. As soon as I was back und caught up I removed DP from my hitlist as he was much more townie now. I did not want to bloat my post with the DP matter again, when it was not part of the trending discussion in the thread, but I did "say a word" about it.... Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
-snip- I for sure care who gets lynched, seriously are you even reading this thread? I clearly stated which persons I want to lynch during varying times already.
Well, you did say stuff like "I cannot even fathom how you critisize me for putting a vote on Rise as pressure when he had done jackshit at that moment". It appeared to me as if you were not actually pressuring RiseAgain but still claiming to have done so. I'm not particularly fond of claiming "townie points" for oneself without actually deserving them, it just feels scummy at worst and uncomfortable at best. Especially when the "pressure" vote is surrounded with remarks like "hey, this is just a throwaway vote, but look I'm doing something!".
Ah yeah, I missed that mention about DP. It certainly makes your actions more logical.
The problem I'm having is: I can't convince myself of anyone having a *high* probability of flipping red. Sadly it seems like this first lynch is going to be somewhat random at this point... That leads me to think the lynch should be someone lurky and non-beneficial to the discussion, but you've been quite active lately and your responses to my pressure don't seem scummy (except the fast and furious counter-vote after my case on you...). In addition, I don't like lynching someone who generates discussion D1, since that'll cut down the discussion and let the lurkers continue lurking.
Mr. Cheesecake hasn't looked all that bad lately, so I'm contemplating yamato77. It's a bit unfair because of his busy schedule, but the fact is, he hasn't done much so far (except suspecting MrZentor, a quite easy and passive target). I'm certainly not leaning town on you or Mr. Cheesecake though. It's just that I'm having a very hard time making scumreads in this game especially compared to my newbie games.
|
On January 07 2013 02:06 Z-BosoN wrote:Xatalos, looking at your filter, I cannot understand what on Earth is your stance on CC and mrZentor. Regarding CC: Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 00:52 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 21:27 ShiaoPi wrote:On January 06 2013 20:05 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:41 ShiaoPi wrote:On January 06 2013 19:36 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am voting you now because:
-flip flopping on DP in some logical inconsistencies earlier
-not committing at all earlier
-writing a terribly bad case for the sake of writing one to get some pressure off yourself.
call it OMGUS if you want, I don't think so.
Also you have been on my hitlist now, Zentor is not around so I cannot ask him stuff right now, I just asked yamato a bunch of stuff earlier. Leaving you and with that crap contribution you look like the best option for today's lynch When was I under pressure...? I've just been trying find someone scummier than Mr. Cheesecake, but it's not an easy job, considering the relatively low activity and the high amount of townish/nullish players. There are many things in your filter that strike me as suspicious (mentioned earlier), and even though they're partly intuition and not solid proof, it's better than Mr. Cheesecake in my eyes (he started off under the radar but has had some engagement since then). Several people have mentioned you as a possible lynch candidate that qualifies as under pressure. I would really be interested in those "many things" in my filter that are suspicious, I already answered the ones you quoted earlier. Please show them to me, I don't even know where you find them. Anyway I am out for dinner now. See you later. Okay... I guess that counts as pressure, although I haven't been even remotely in a dangerous spot until now. But this always happens to me when I'm town at some point, so I'm not too worried yet. Are you saying you were really pressuring RiseAgain? I just can't see anything but a weak fake pressure in that. Merely voting for someone without any actual pressure doesn't count as pressure. Some other players in this game have thrown away weak votes as well, but at least they tried to create some pressure. You didn't even try - the opposite, you openly said it was only an empty vote beforehand. Why were you suddenly okay with lynching DP when he started to gain a bandwagon for himself? All I can see is an opportunistic (yet extremely vague) move to potentially get rid of an active player. And when the bandwagon started to crumble, you suddenly dropped him from your suspects without saying a word about it. It feels like you're just trying to get someone lynched, and it doesn't really matter who. So I am back. Where did I say I was really pressuring Rise? I clearly said it was to get him to post, since I had questions for him, that I wanted to answer. It is blatantly clear in my filter. I was not "suddenly" okay with lynching DP, stop misrepresenting facts. Mr.CC asked me who my other possible candidates were. That was after the first episode of DP/Hapa-shitfest but before the entire wagon on him started. I was active during the increasing pressure on DP, being part of it myself, before I had to leave cause of RL matters. How is it opportunistic for me to be one of the persons being there while the pressure added up, when I really thought that he might be red?? The bandwagon started to crumble because DP was doing some really townish posts, thing is I was not in the thread at that time. As soon as I was back und caught up I removed DP from my hitlist as he was much more townie now. I did not want to bloat my post with the DP matter again, when it was not part of the trending discussion in the thread, but I did "say a word" about it.... On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
-snip- I for sure care who gets lynched, seriously are you even reading this thread? I clearly stated which persons I want to lynch during varying times already. Well, you did say stuff like "I cannot even fathom how you critisize me for putting a vote on Rise as pressure when he had done jackshit at that moment". It appeared to me as if you were not actually pressuring RiseAgain but still claiming to have done so. I'm not particularly fond of claiming "townie points" for oneself without actually deserving them, it just feels scummy at worst and uncomfortable at best. Especially when the "pressure" vote is surrounded with remarks like "hey, this is just a throwaway vote, but look I'm doing something!". Ah yeah, I missed that mention about DP. It certainly makes your actions more logical. The problem I'm having is: I can't convince myself of anyone having a *high* probability of flipping red. Sadly it seems like this first lynch is going to be somewhat random at this point... That leads me to think the lynch should be someone lurky and non-beneficial to the discussion, but you've been quite active lately and your responses to my pressure don't seem scummy (except the fast and furious counter-vote after my case on you...). In addition, I don't like lynching someone who generates discussion D1, since that'll cut down the discussion and let the lurkers continue lurking. Mr. Cheesecake hasn't looked all that bad lately, so I'm contemplating yamato77. It's a bit unfair because of his busy schedule, but the fact is, he hasn't done much so far (except suspecting MrZentor, a quite easy and passive target). I'm certainly not leaning town on you or Mr. Cheesecake though. It's just that I'm having a very hard time making scumreads in this game especially compared to my newbie games. When before this, you had this to say about him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=25#486Show nested quote +I said I was ready to vote for Mr. Cheesecake, but somehow I don't feel like it's a sufficiently justifiable lynch. He's had some townish posting lately and my read on him wasn't strong to begin with. But there's someone else I want to discuss... Which makes no sense to me. You didn't have a strong scum read on him initially, but you were ready to vote him. Now, without saying anything other than "he's posting townish lately", you want to lynch him. If he's such a conflicting read, why aren't you prodding him? Why aren't you commenting on jay's case on him? On mrZ, your very first post addresses how mrZ looks scummy. You also say this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=8#147Show nested quote +Well, I'm not really sure how MrZentor is so easy to read... I'm having extreme difficulties reading him. And I've played with him in two games before too. It shouldn't be too hard to fake some joke posts, right? Especially with his general low activity and lack of any content. But from your filter, it is a scumread you are not pursuing at all. You've had no interactions with him that tell me you are trying to better read him more. Your stance is that you are having difficulty making reads this game or whatever. Then you make a case on ShiaoPi, weakly accusing him of a pressure vote. To me it looks like you are just following the thread trend and seeing what sticks. (CC being town, DP being scum but then being town, mrZ looking town, etc.), and I don't like it.
I think my stance on MrZentor has been pretty clear. I originally had a slight scumread on him, but after some discussion with him and considering his meta, I've been leaning town on him for quite a while. I've also said that many times.
Mr. Cheesecake is a tougher one to figure out for me. I really dislike his early posting, but he started being fairly active and engaged at some point. He hasn't posted for a while now though. I'm torn, and it's not helping that he hasn't been posting for quite some time.
I'm contemplating a lynch of ShiaoPi or yamato77. I didn't really get a scummy feeling from my back-and-forth with ShiaoPi earlier, so yamato77 might be a better choice. He might improve his contributions after his RL issues are solved though, so it's not easy to decide. Mr. Cheesecake isn't out of the question either. What I need now is some kind of a sign or clue about who would be the right choice. Unfortunately I'm in a different timezone than most here, so not that much is happening while I'm online :/
|
On January 07 2013 02:34 MrZentor wrote:The four main suspects are Mr. CC, Shiaopi, Yamato, and Xatalos. Mr. CC + Show Spoiler +He's probably town, and there are two main reasons for me to think that. 1. He's carefree and open, especially during the opening of the game. On January 04 2013 12:14 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Mr.Z we're masoned you dummy. ShiaoPi obv scum right? On January 05 2013 10:19 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Hey yeah yeah yeah Hey yeah, I said HEY! What's going on?!
Home from my shift and such. Reading the shitfest that is DP-Hapa (kind of sounds like a porno) interaction atm and catching up.
Questions, people, questions. Anyone? On January 05 2013 12:58 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Oh hey Hapa whats up. I need someone to talk to. Wanna cuddle? What you think of Yamato going full retard right now? 2. Two of the other suspects targeted him early in the game. Although it is possible one of them was faking this aggression, it is unlikely, because of all the risks that come with it. If the scum faking aggression toward Mr.CC gets lynched and doesn't do a good job of faking it, then it will be obvious that Mr. CC is scum with him. On January 05 2013 12:37 yamato77 wrote:
Do people really think it was that difficult to understand what I said?
Anyway CC your case is bad and I think you're faking this read. I don't think Xatalos is that scummy, but he is an easy target.
CC is scummy.
##Vote: Mr Cheesecake Mr. Cheesecake
Who was he again? I only remembered him after rereading the thread a couple of times. He hasn't actually taken stances on anything that matters (not counting obvious stuff like "we should lynch the scummiest player"). What I'm most worried about is his complete lack of presence - he's basically casually lurking without being too obvious. I'm unwilling to judge him yet, but he isn't looking good so far. From Xatalos. It is possible that he is scum with ShiaoPi, but I find this unlikely considering his early game behavior. Yamato + Show Spoiler +His early game play seems a lot like an earnest, noobie townie. On January 04 2013 16:41 yamato77 wrote:
I'm not sure how the logic is strange.
You told me it was difficult to think in IRC because there was no time.
You advocate making longer, more thought out decisions in this game because of the instant lynch mechanic.
I don't know why you guys think this is a big deal. On January 04 2013 17:32 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 17:16 Hapahauli wrote:On January 04 2013 17:10 yamato77 wrote:I agree, the hammer vote should definitely be looked at. With that in mind, I'm not sure why CC says this: On January 04 2013 11:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 04 2013 11:42 jaybrundage wrote:On January 04 2013 11:01 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Jay
Any other thoughts on what Rise and I have discussed over the first pages of the thread? Day length, hammer votes, or anything really. We should lynch someone when we feel confident they are mafia. We should always be aware of the hammer vote. People should be responsible for there hammer vote. We shouldn't rush a lynch cause we lost discussions to read people with. Policy Lynches rarely work so we should refrain from doing them. Pretty straight forward imo. So the hammer vote takes full responsibility for the lynch? Everyone who votes is responsible, not just the hammering guy. Why does CC not want us to put emphasis on the hammer vote? It is prime opportunity for differentiating scum from town yet he thinks it isn't? Regarding the bolded, in what way would you say it is a "prime opportunity [to] differentiate" alignments? Give me some examples. Also, I think you're just shoving words in CC's mouth. He's saying that we shouldn't shift disproportionate responsibility on the person who hammers on a lynch, and I don't see what's wrong about that statement. What is disproportionate responsibility? I think there's plenty of reason to give the hammer more look than other votes. It is the act of making the decision to lynch someone, it makes the player into the executioner. The use of the hammer vote is perhaps the most important thing in this game. You said so yourself and now you seem to disagree with me? Why? On January 06 2013 00:06 yamato77 wrote:
I will admit I'm not paying as much attention to this game as I should.
Honestly my vote on CC was to get a better read on him. Up to that point I thought he was a bit scummy so I figured his reaction to me voting for him out of nowhere might reveal to me his alignment. It turns out it didn't, but some of the things he has said since then have swayed my opinion.
I'm fairly confident in Hapa being town, so as far as active scum I don't think there are any. Jay is the only one I would question because his posts have a quality that makes them seem quiet, almost like his opinion isn't something to be valued. Is he scum trying to stay under the radar or just a weak townie?
No I'm much more inclined to think a scum lies between Mr Zentor and Rise. Zentor hasn't contributed much besides a lot of setup talk and town reads. His filter is low content, low profile, very much like I think the scum are this game.
Rise simply hasn't posted much since the beginning if the game and it is starting to make me question his motivations. Also, the way he pushes me makes me think he's a noob townie. I would expect newer players to think I'm scum, because of a lot of the things I do are obviously scummy. On January 06 2013 17:58 yamato77 wrote:
Mr Zentor
He's only given a lot of town reads and acted impatient about lynching people. His filter is full of one liners that provide little reasoning for what he wants to do this game aside from Lynch people. He seems more preoccupied with there being a lynch than who is going to be lynched. He hasn't helped town find who they should lynch, either. Hapa says he's a bored townie but he looks like a scum just waiting for an excuse to hammer a townie lynch. Xatalos + Show Spoiler +He is pretty uptight, but he makes some good points in his massive cases; he and ShiaoPi are equally likely to be scum. Well, for starters, I think you're most likely town. I can't believe a Mafia would outpost everyone in the thread and engage in every possible topic. Does that make DarthPunk Mafia in my eyes? Not really. I agree with many things he says, and his filter just reads fairly townish to me - this post for example:
In any case, I'm pretty satisfied with your responses. Your counter-arguments to my (pretty weak) arguments for your scumminess are what I'd expect from a townie: calm, collected, reasonable. Combined with Hapahauli's recommendation to wait on you, I don't see you as a good lynch at the moment.
Welcome, Z-Boson! I'm glad you're being very townish and contributive so far, which means we have one less player out of the lynching table (I didn't like lynching RiseAgain either, but this is a much easier judgement than that).
ShiaoPi + Show Spoiler +Either he or Xatalos is scum, I'm not sure which. It's pretty unlikely that they're both scum, considering how they both made cases on why the other is scum. He parks his vote on a lurker. On January 05 2013 12:14 ShiaoPi wrote:Hmm looks like RiseAgain has still not responded.... Anyway moving onto the matters more at hand for now. I don't think that DP or Hapa are scum, it feels much more like townies at each others throats for minor things. While I can see where both are coming from during the exchange I does kind of worry me that DP does not follow up with a vote as Hapa does. Does not seem to fit when he calls him scum more than once earlier. @Mr.CC Xatalos is kind of a lynchbait in itself. He is not that easy to read (at least for me), but what I have seen so far from him does not really convince me on his scumminess. From time to time he does these 180-turns but usually it is because he lays his entire thoughtprocess out and therefore every nook and turn of his mind is in the thread. He is nullish right now. I want to see more from RiseAgain, so ##Vote: RiseAgainget in here and do something please! But he also waffles over Xatalos, which makes me think he could be town. On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
I am interested currently in these people:
yamato
Xatalos
MrZ
yamato:
There are many things which would probably be me reiterating stuff that was mentioned (discrepancy in behaviour as hapa said). Not being really present, throwing votes around with little reasoning. But that can be explained by his lack of time due to RL business. could really use more analysis and reasoning from him.
Xatalos:
I said earlier that Xatalos is a lynchbait. That is because he is hesitating a lot, laying out a lot of his thoughts in the thread and therefore opening himself up for harsh critique if he changes his mind and posts it. His lack of any stance is alarming though. While it is somewhat just his playstyle (IIRC) I still dislike it a lot, I mean day 1 has been going for quite a long time now already, while we did not get more information through lynching there is still a lot of content to search through and find something.
MrZ:
He is useless, which is stupidly just his meta with the lightheartedness he has shown. I don't like useless people but cannot condemn him based on this.
Actually I started this post with wanting to lynch into Xata/yamato preferrably yamato but now that I am writing those reads feel just unsatisfying...There is nothing really much that distinguishes one option from the other. I am reluctant to lynch yamato since he seems legitimately busy, also relcutant to lynch Xata for just playing as he does (same goes for MrZ).
Somehow this day 1 has not been really productive >_> Who we should lynch. + Show Spoiler +
I don't know which one we should lynch, but I know what we should do if each one is lynched.
.....................................Xatalos.................................................................................................Shiaopi............
................................../.....................\........................................................................................./..........\............
........................flips scum..........flips town..................................................................flips scum.....flips town...........................
...........................|............................|............................................................................./...............................\..................................
......find scum partner..............lynch Shia.....................................................lynch MrCC..............lynch Xatalos-.flips.scum .....
................................................../............\....................................................../..................\..............................|........................|
.....................................flips town......flips scum.............................flips scum............flips town...........flips town.......find scum
....................................|.................................|.....................................|............................|........................../.......................partner
...start suspecting people......................lynch MrCC....................win..............start suspecting people....................
...like Hapa and Boson............................/...............\.........................................like Hapa and Boson
..........................................................flips scum.......flips town...........................................................................................
........................................................./............................|...................................................................
....................................................win...................start suspecting people.....................................
............................................................................like Hapa and Boson.....................................
Hm. It's really nice to see good content from you, although I don't quite get it why exactly one of me or ShiaoPi has to be scum.
I don't really agree with your analysis of Mr. Cheesecake's opening game. It's not being "open" to post a lot of fluff unrelated to anything. It's easy to do as Mafia. Doing that kind of posting doesn't hinder his lategame at all by potentially forcing him to a corner later on.
I can understand your reasoning for seeing yamato77 as town. But isn't attacking you for your general scummy features possible also for newer Mafia who see an easy mislynch target? It doesn't mean just the possibility of a newer town.
|
On January 07 2013 03:06 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 02:39 Xatalos wrote:On January 07 2013 02:06 Z-BosoN wrote:Xatalos, looking at your filter, I cannot understand what on Earth is your stance on CC and mrZentor. Regarding CC: On January 07 2013 00:52 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 21:27 ShiaoPi wrote:On January 06 2013 20:05 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:41 ShiaoPi wrote:On January 06 2013 19:36 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am voting you now because:
-flip flopping on DP in some logical inconsistencies earlier
-not committing at all earlier
-writing a terribly bad case for the sake of writing one to get some pressure off yourself.
call it OMGUS if you want, I don't think so.
Also you have been on my hitlist now, Zentor is not around so I cannot ask him stuff right now, I just asked yamato a bunch of stuff earlier. Leaving you and with that crap contribution you look like the best option for today's lynch When was I under pressure...? I've just been trying find someone scummier than Mr. Cheesecake, but it's not an easy job, considering the relatively low activity and the high amount of townish/nullish players. There are many things in your filter that strike me as suspicious (mentioned earlier), and even though they're partly intuition and not solid proof, it's better than Mr. Cheesecake in my eyes (he started off under the radar but has had some engagement since then). Several people have mentioned you as a possible lynch candidate that qualifies as under pressure. I would really be interested in those "many things" in my filter that are suspicious, I already answered the ones you quoted earlier. Please show them to me, I don't even know where you find them. Anyway I am out for dinner now. See you later. Okay... I guess that counts as pressure, although I haven't been even remotely in a dangerous spot until now. But this always happens to me when I'm town at some point, so I'm not too worried yet. Are you saying you were really pressuring RiseAgain? I just can't see anything but a weak fake pressure in that. Merely voting for someone without any actual pressure doesn't count as pressure. Some other players in this game have thrown away weak votes as well, but at least they tried to create some pressure. You didn't even try - the opposite, you openly said it was only an empty vote beforehand. Why were you suddenly okay with lynching DP when he started to gain a bandwagon for himself? All I can see is an opportunistic (yet extremely vague) move to potentially get rid of an active player. And when the bandwagon started to crumble, you suddenly dropped him from your suspects without saying a word about it. It feels like you're just trying to get someone lynched, and it doesn't really matter who. So I am back. Where did I say I was really pressuring Rise? I clearly said it was to get him to post, since I had questions for him, that I wanted to answer. It is blatantly clear in my filter. I was not "suddenly" okay with lynching DP, stop misrepresenting facts. Mr.CC asked me who my other possible candidates were. That was after the first episode of DP/Hapa-shitfest but before the entire wagon on him started. I was active during the increasing pressure on DP, being part of it myself, before I had to leave cause of RL matters. How is it opportunistic for me to be one of the persons being there while the pressure added up, when I really thought that he might be red?? The bandwagon started to crumble because DP was doing some really townish posts, thing is I was not in the thread at that time. As soon as I was back und caught up I removed DP from my hitlist as he was much more townie now. I did not want to bloat my post with the DP matter again, when it was not part of the trending discussion in the thread, but I did "say a word" about it.... On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
-snip- I for sure care who gets lynched, seriously are you even reading this thread? I clearly stated which persons I want to lynch during varying times already. Well, you did say stuff like "I cannot even fathom how you critisize me for putting a vote on Rise as pressure when he had done jackshit at that moment". It appeared to me as if you were not actually pressuring RiseAgain but still claiming to have done so. I'm not particularly fond of claiming "townie points" for oneself without actually deserving them, it just feels scummy at worst and uncomfortable at best. Especially when the "pressure" vote is surrounded with remarks like "hey, this is just a throwaway vote, but look I'm doing something!". Ah yeah, I missed that mention about DP. It certainly makes your actions more logical. The problem I'm having is: I can't convince myself of anyone having a *high* probability of flipping red. Sadly it seems like this first lynch is going to be somewhat random at this point... That leads me to think the lynch should be someone lurky and non-beneficial to the discussion, but you've been quite active lately and your responses to my pressure don't seem scummy (except the fast and furious counter-vote after my case on you...). In addition, I don't like lynching someone who generates discussion D1, since that'll cut down the discussion and let the lurkers continue lurking. Mr. Cheesecake hasn't looked all that bad lately, so I'm contemplating yamato77. It's a bit unfair because of his busy schedule, but the fact is, he hasn't done much so far (except suspecting MrZentor, a quite easy and passive target). I'm certainly not leaning town on you or Mr. Cheesecake though. It's just that I'm having a very hard time making scumreads in this game especially compared to my newbie games. When before this, you had this to say about him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=25#486I said I was ready to vote for Mr. Cheesecake, but somehow I don't feel like it's a sufficiently justifiable lynch. He's had some townish posting lately and my read on him wasn't strong to begin with. But there's someone else I want to discuss... Which makes no sense to me. You didn't have a strong scum read on him initially, but you were ready to vote him. Now, without saying anything other than "he's posting townish lately", you want to lynch him. If he's such a conflicting read, why aren't you prodding him? Why aren't you commenting on jay's case on him? On mrZ, your very first post addresses how mrZ looks scummy. You also say this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=8#147Well, I'm not really sure how MrZentor is so easy to read... I'm having extreme difficulties reading him. And I've played with him in two games before too. It shouldn't be too hard to fake some joke posts, right? Especially with his general low activity and lack of any content. But from your filter, it is a scumread you are not pursuing at all. You've had no interactions with him that tell me you are trying to better read him more. Your stance is that you are having difficulty making reads this game or whatever. Then you make a case on ShiaoPi, weakly accusing him of a pressure vote. To me it looks like you are just following the thread trend and seeing what sticks. (CC being town, DP being scum but then being town, mrZ looking town, etc.), and I don't like it. I think my stance on MrZentor has been pretty clear. I originally had a slight scumread on him, but after some discussion with him and considering his meta, I've been leaning town on him for quite a while. I've also said that many times. Mr. Cheesecake is a tougher one to figure out for me. I really dislike his early posting, but he started being fairly active and engaged at some point. He hasn't posted for a while now though. I'm torn, and it's not helping that he hasn't been posting for quite some time. I'm contemplating a lynch of ShiaoPi or yamato77. I didn't really get a scummy feeling from my back-and-forth with ShiaoPi earlier, so yamato77 might be a better choice. He might improve his contributions after his RL issues are solved though, so it's not easy to decide. Mr. Cheesecake isn't out of the question either. What I need now is some kind of a sign or clue about who would be the right choice. Unfortunately I'm in a different timezone than most here, so not that much is happening while I'm online :/ It's difficult to keep track of your thoughts because you change your mind way too much, and often without proper reasoning. For example, from your filter I've noted that you haven't interacted with Jay much at all. He's a town read to you: Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 02:54 Xatalos wrote:
Why do you see jaybrundage as scummy? I'm not sold on that. He made some good points about ShiaoPi and offered his opinions pretty casually - I don't get the feeling he was unwilling to talk about anything. And he wants to lynch CC. If you are a townie who has difficulty reading CC, why are you not discussing him with another one of your town reads? It's much more comfortable saying "ah he was scummy but now he's townie" and not doing anything about it. Also, I'm not so sure what to make of your interaction with shiaoPi. You begin strongly by noting how he has taken little stances in this game (which is true), but you back off a bit too easily: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=26#506You thought Shiaopi's vote on DP was not a pressure vote, but now he's convinced you it was a pressure vote (in a way which I want you to be more clear about), and that also manages to refute your earlier point on Shiao not taking stances. Explain these two points to me, which are a bit hazy in logic, and why you would still lynch into Shiao despite it all.
Well... I guess it's because I tend to put all my thoughts into my posts (mostly as town, since I want to hold back more as Mafia to avoid controversy). Just look at any of my town games, they're all somewhat confusing and disorganized if you look at my filters. As Mafia I'm much more focused and almost never really suspected (lol).
jaybrundage hasn't been around a lot when I've been online, so I haven't really discussed with him. But mostly I have a good feeling about him - he seems to make sense and genuinely post his opinions. Every time I go to his filter with the mindset of him being Mafia, I come back thinking he's town. If he actually is Mafia, I applaud him.
I think you misunderstood our main argument. It was about the fake pressure on RiseAgain and the vague suspicion towards DarthPunk. I conceded the point about DarthPunk, but not the point about RiseAgain. Overall the argument made me feel a bit less suspicious about ShiaoPi.
|
Alright. I've made my decision. I'm fine with lynching yamato77, especially if it comes down to me or him (which is a very real possibility at this point). I've outlined my reasons for having him as a lynch candidate earlier and my opinion hasn't significantly changed after that, unlike with MrZentor, DarthPunk or jaybrundage.
##Unvote ShiaoPi
##Vote yamato77
Mr. Cheesecake, I don't think it's bad to include counter-arguments within your case against someone. It should be a fair judgement after all, not a one-sided tunneling tool. Especially if you're not entirely convinced about your target being scum.
|
On January 07 2013 05:16 Hapahauli wrote:And for the record Xatalos, the fact that you're voting Yamato right now does not look good, especially since all your posting regarding Yamato is limited to the following: Show nested quote +yamato77
- Voting for Mr. Cheesecake since... why?
- Weird logic and reasoning... scrambling for something to back up his opinions?
- Practically nothing useful in his (short) filter
- Talking almost exclusively about meta/policy/semantics, nothing really meaningful related to this game Show nested quote +Mr. Cheesecake hasn't looked all that bad lately, so I'm contemplating yamato77. It's a bit unfair because of his busy schedule, but the fact is, he hasn't done much so far (except suspecting MrZentor, a quite easy and passive target). I'm certainly not leaning town on you or Mr. Cheesecake though. It's just that I'm having a very hard time making scumreads in this game especially compared to my newbie games. Show nested quote +I'm contemplating a lynch of ShiaoPi or yamato77. I didn't really get a scummy feeling from my back-and-forth with ShiaoPi earlier, so yamato77 might be a better choice. He might improve his contributions after his RL issues are solved though, so it's not easy to decide. Mr. Cheesecake isn't out of the question either. What I need now is some kind of a sign or clue about who would be the right choice. Unfortunately I'm in a different timezone than most here, so not that much is happening while I'm online :/ The first post was made ~page 15 in the game, so it's quite out-dated. The next few posts are more "eh, by process of elimination, I'm lynching yamato."
Well, it is largely a process of elimination. There isn't anything really condemning in his filter, but nothing actually townish either. I guess there isn't a surefire way to find Mafia during Day 1 and the first lynch has to be relatively uncertain, unless Mafia really fail somehow. But it's the best option in this uncertain situation, I guess. I'm running out of ideas and want to see a flip in order to make things a bit easier.
|
On January 07 2013 05:37 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:
Alright. I've made my decision. I'm fine with lynching yamato77, especially if it comes down to me or him (which is a very real possibility at this point). I've outlined my reasons for having him as a lynch candidate earlier and my opinion hasn't significantly changed after that, unlike with MrZentor, DarthPunk or jaybrundage.
##Unvote ShiaoPi
##Vote yamato77
Mr. Cheesecake, I don't think it's bad to include counter-arguments within your case against someone. It should be a fair judgement after all, not a one-sided tunneling tool. Especially if you're not entirely convinced about your target being scum. Where was your inclination to lynch me earlier? Now that it's the only thing you can do to save yourself you're all for seeing me hang? You were trying to get me to follow you on voting for Shiao last night, remember? Why would you do that if you have a scum read on me? It look like you're just fitting your reads in at your convenience. I already attacked you for that scummy case post on Shiao, so convince me why I shouldn't just lynch you now.
You were always nullish / slightly scummy in my eyes. I asked for your opinion on ShiaoPi because A) you were the only one online B) I also wanted to see your reaction. I don't think I should be focusing to convince the one I'm voting for though.
On January 07 2013 05:36 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 05:33 Xatalos wrote:On January 07 2013 05:16 Hapahauli wrote:And for the record Xatalos, the fact that you're voting Yamato right now does not look good, especially since all your posting regarding Yamato is limited to the following: yamato77
- Voting for Mr. Cheesecake since... why?
- Weird logic and reasoning... scrambling for something to back up his opinions?
- Practically nothing useful in his (short) filter
- Talking almost exclusively about meta/policy/semantics, nothing really meaningful related to this game Mr. Cheesecake hasn't looked all that bad lately, so I'm contemplating yamato77. It's a bit unfair because of his busy schedule, but the fact is, he hasn't done much so far (except suspecting MrZentor, a quite easy and passive target). I'm certainly not leaning town on you or Mr. Cheesecake though. It's just that I'm having a very hard time making scumreads in this game especially compared to my newbie games. I'm contemplating a lynch of ShiaoPi or yamato77. I didn't really get a scummy feeling from my back-and-forth with ShiaoPi earlier, so yamato77 might be a better choice. He might improve his contributions after his RL issues are solved though, so it's not easy to decide. Mr. Cheesecake isn't out of the question either. What I need now is some kind of a sign or clue about who would be the right choice. Unfortunately I'm in a different timezone than most here, so not that much is happening while I'm online :/ The first post was made ~page 15 in the game, so it's quite out-dated. The next few posts are more "eh, by process of elimination, I'm lynching yamato." Well, it is largely a process of elimination. There isn't anything really condemning in his filter, but nothing actually townish either. I guess there isn't a surefire way to find Mafia during Day 1 and the first lynch has to be relatively uncertain, unless Mafia really fail somehow. But it's the best option in this uncertain situation, I guess. I'm running out of ideas and want to see a flip in order to make things a bit easier. Well why shouldn't you be the one to flip? The "unsure" vote on Yamato doesn't look good considering this post of yours here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=25#491Where you're worried about one of ShaioPi's votes because scum (in one of your previous games) made an "unsure" vote - much in the manner than you're doing now.
That's not the same situation. ShiaoPi's fake pressure was without any intent to lynch or pressure, it was just a meaningless vote that didn't affect anything (especially after his repeated downplaying of his own vote). My vote is uncertain, yes, but I'm intent on lynching him or at the very least putting him under heavy pressure. There's a large difference.
|
On January 07 2013 05:43 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:@XatalosObviously nobody likes your vote on Yamato. I'm pretty scummy right now - just look at the horrible stream of consciousness post. You've had it in for me all game. You totes want to lynch me right now. Jay does too, and Hapa thinks I'm totes a scumster. Maybe I could die today. Why won't you vote me?
Hmm. You do have a point though. I'm not against lynching you, but if it's yamato77 or me, why waste time? Currently you've become a realistic lynch option as well, so I'll have to reconsider. No matter what, my vote is going to be yamato77/ShiaoPi/you.
|
On January 07 2013 05:56 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 05:49 Hapahauli wrote:
I'm pretty interested in seeing a conversation between Yamato and Xatalos right now. Since you both want to kill each other, I want to hear your reasons for why you want each other lynched. I really hate the way he voted for Shiao, the case was bad and wrong but then he goes "I guess it's time to cast a vote" Like wtf kind of scum thinking is that? He's just looking for a reason to vote people Just like he's looking for a reason to vote me.
Sometimes you don't have a strong scumread so you have to vote for one of the players who aren't townish. It's as simple as that. Inevitably you can't build a strong case against someone who is merely slightly suspicious / nullish. You'll just have to rely on your intuition and luck basically.
|
On January 07 2013 06:02 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Xatalos
You mentioned that your vote would end up on yamato, Shaio, or CC today. A process of elimination read on yamato makes absolutely no sense when you have other potential lynch candidates. What are your current thoughts on Shaio and CC?
Mr. Cheesecake: he's had good engagement with the thread lately, but he hasn't actually done much. Much of his posting is just fluff or nearly fluff, like the stream of thought post for example. It doesn't feel like he wants to really affect the thread, more like comment on things of his choosing and follow along... It could very well be Mafia. I'm definitely pro-lynch on him.
ShiaoPi: still concerned about his fake pressure, OMGUS vote on me, relative lack of contribution etc. I can easily see his filter from a Mafia perspective, unlike several other players (Hapahauli, MrZentor, jaybrundage).
It all comes down to what's realistic. It's starting to look like ShiaoPi is not, Mr. Cheesecake and yamato77 may well be. So I'm not pushing for ShiaoPi to be lynched right now.
|
On January 07 2013 06:17 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 06:14 Xatalos wrote:On January 07 2013 06:02 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Xatalos
You mentioned that your vote would end up on yamato, Shaio, or CC today. A process of elimination read on yamato makes absolutely no sense when you have other potential lynch candidates. What are your current thoughts on Shaio and CC? Mr. Cheesecake: he's had good engagement with the thread lately, but he hasn't actually done much. Much of his posting is just fluff or nearly fluff, like the stream of thought post for example. It doesn't feel like he wants to really affect the thread, more like comment on things of his choosing and follow along... It could very well be Mafia. I'm definitely pro-lynch on him. ShiaoPi: still concerned about his fake pressure, OMGUS vote on me, relative lack of contribution etc. I can easily see his filter from a Mafia perspective, unlike several other players (Hapahauli, MrZentor, jaybrundage). It all comes down to what's realistic. It's starting to look like ShiaoPi is not, Mr. Cheesecake and yamato77 may well be. So I'm not pushing for ShiaoPi to be lynched right now. I need less general statements and more specific analysis. Lynching based on realism = not good. Who is your top scumread based on behaviour alone and why? Let's pretend for a minute that everyone, is up on the block, and you control who the town is going to lynch. Who are you going to lynch?
If I had absolute power over the thread, I would lynch Mr. Cheesecake right now. Between his fluffy and passive opening game, constant lack of taking real stances and his recent weird and fluffy posts, he isn't much of a contributor or even a presence in the flow of the thread. Even considering his relatively good activity and engagement in several topics. I have to leave now for a quite lenghty period of time, so I'm torn about what to do. I guess I'll just have to leave it up to fate and hope I'm not lynched when I get back.
##Unvote yamato77
##Vote Mr. Cheesecake
|
Sorry for my weak performance this game... I guess this was to be expected. But you can do it town, GL HF! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
