EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXXIII
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On December 13 2012 10:13 Dandel Ion wrote: A Newbie game is actually the best place ever for explaining stuff like that. You so silly Why would you EVER try to teach something in a newbie game. It ruins the whole point  | ||
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hopefully we can get started tomorrow ^^ | ||
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lol | ||
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I'm exhausted today so I'll probably head off early tonight. hopefully they get back to you shortly so we can start tomorrow | ||
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I think we need to try and focus on getting some good conversation going for D1. We need to get information but also as stated if anybody posts like once a day... then maybe D2/D3 we should look to get rid of them. 2) How do you think scum would try to infiltrate us? cause suspicion on the newbier townies and any lurkers. Use LAL to their advantage to buy them some time and hope we mess up some lynches. - Also why I don't think we should immediately LAL (lurkers anyway... liars are a different story). And I love shrimp. | ||
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I agree Crom is currently my #1 town read as well just judging on how he started his other game and this one. That or he learned to phrase his sentences much better as scum. Mocsta you show a lot of interest as how Mafia should play this game to not draw attention to themselves. Giving me a weird vibe from it. | ||
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I'm going to go to sleep a bit early tonight, didn't get any sleep last night so I've been having a lot of trouble forming thoughts of any kind. I'll be of more use in the morning.. or night for our aussie friends | ||
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I agree with Kickstart entirely when he says we should push scum reads over policy lynches. Truthfully I'm more worried about anybody who thinks we should lynch lurkers without second thought. | ||
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A player who doesn't want to add a lot to conversations or help scumhunt doesn't come across as being town to me, but I'm inexperienced so does anybody else have thoughts on the matter? Personally I'd love to know why he wants to lurk | ||
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Sorry for the short posts I'm working off like 3 hours of sleep again and it's 4am  | ||
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After reading through everything first and foremost ##Vote: cDgCorazon He slipped up so badly I can't believe it was a mistake. He actually claimed mafia after an already terrible start while being defensive and being overly cautious of most of his posts. I think Theesr's constant back and forth with him made him slip up. He constantly says who benefits from a 1 day Lynch. Town does in this situation even if we lynch him and he turns out town. If this happens I'm almost positive Theesr is scum, he's been trying to spread confusion and is openly claiming he doesn't want to post a lot or explain himself. Extremely scummy behavior. If it wasn't for the fact that Corazon literally said he was mafia and didn't even correct it until somebody else brought it up (meaning in his mind the sentence made sense) then I would be trying to start a hunt on Theesr. The only thing making me think Theesr is just a bad town is the way he's been aggressively going for Corazon, on D1 I would never expect two mafia players to try and lynch each other they just can't afford to. I believe at the moment our best bet is to lynch Corazon at the end of D1, see who jumps on the bandwagon and if he flips scum we'll be able to look at who tried to defend him, who eventually gave in, and who was set on lynching him right away. If he flips town and I've made a mistake on my reads than Theesr is most likely scum and used the fact that Corazon was not posting comfortably at the start to secure a town lynch D1. Either way we as town get an extremely large amount of information if we lynch Corazon at the moment. Unless proven otherwise Corazon's slips have made him 100% scum in my mind. I'm going to make something to eat and then I'll look over everything again just to make sure I've read everything correctly. | ||
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If he latched onto Corazon because he realized he would be extremely easy to put him under suspicion. (followed by Corazon actually stating he's Mafia) I can't really see Corazon being town but if he is and has just made every mistake he could then my reason behind Theesr being shitty town would disappear and he would become my #1 scum read instead of #1 shitty town He's tried to vote for 3 people in quick succession without any real reasons. Or at least he didn't explain them because he doesn't like to... so if Corazon isn't scum I believe Theesr is trying to throw us in multiple directions at once and just hoping something sticks. Luckily for him something did and I'm willing to believe it's just bad town play. | ||
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On December 20 2012 09:58 Chromatically wrote: Here's where we disagree. I don't see a first time scum player doing as much crazy stuff as threesr has been doing. As scum threesr had no reason to say things like "I'm find with lurking" or to do something like switch his vote three times. Those things attract negative attention to him and don't help push a mafia agenda at all. People say things like "He's causing confusion", but there hasn't really been any confusion caused. I think it's far more likely that he's just a townie who doesn't really know what he's doing. yeah I'm keeping my vote on Corazon and thinking Theesr was just playing a scummy town for those reasons | ||
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I'm still pushing for D1 Lynch on Corazon until anybody can convince me otherwise. | ||
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Alright Basically after reading through everything FatChunk has posted it's not really a give-away as Kickstart has just said. However I believe that FatChunk defending of Corazon, the fact that only he and Mocsta (who I believe to be town at the moment) are also voting for Theesr who is also as Kickstart mentioned an easy target because of his actions leads me to believe that we are right about Corazon and FatChunk is also scum trying to help start a bandwagon on Theesr so we don't lynch Corazon. This is a large assumption but it makes sense if they both are scum. FatChunk can't just sit idly by while we lynch his partner after all. | ||
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If anybody can clearly give us a way to gain more information while at the same time getting rid of suspicion of Corazon I am all for it. I don't want to lynch somebody who could be town just because we all tunnel him. Let's try and get some information from other lurkers. What do they think of the current situation ect. | ||
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Corazon started off the game saying he hoped D1 would be quiet and peaceful and no real information should come out during it which also seems a little scummy as everybody else started off hoping for some good conversation and to build up leads. Not wait for N1/D2 where we lose somebody and have no information about why they die. The fact that he's new CAN explain these things but I refuse to believe he is dumb. I think he thought it out and tried to come across as reasonable. I've already said I want to start going after the lurkers with our remaining time D1 and if we find something that removes Corazon from suspicion so be it. My vote is not locked yet it is just on the person I find most likely to be scum. I don't think he's past the point of no return either. I believe the vote count is 5 for Corazon and 3 for Threesr at the moment. and as I said Threesr would be my #2 if it weren't for the fact that it wouldn't make any sense for both him and Corazon to be scum. I'd like Corazon to tell us his top scum reads, and why they seem to be. I'd also like to note to Spaghetticus and everybody else that if you are looking for more people who came to Corazon's defense, Orangeremi tried to make a case of why Corazon wasn't scum and went back to lurking. I'd like to actually hear why Orangeremi refused to give us an idea of who his top scum reads were and why he didn't actually say why Corazon wasn't acting scummy. The fact that he then put out the same three names for his top scum reads that everybody else had and then went into hiding again is also suspicious. In Orangeremi's own words "Instead of looking for scum players, they would be making unjustified claims hoping others hop wagon in an attempt to get an innocent player lynched." and then "Otherwise, I have a slight suspicion of Sylencia that is based solely on a hunch and little to no evidence." based on that... ##FOS Orangeremi | ||
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Also if we had to vote right now how would you feel about a Corazon lynch? Best option or do you have better reads on somebody else? | ||
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##Vote: Spaghetticus ##FoS: cDgCorazon Congrats Corazon. I still think you are scum but I'm going to hunt your buddies for the rest of the day. This post reads to me "I'm playing my game and I don't care what yours is, I'll just sit in the middle of the room so you know I'm here" And I must have missed the part where you were ever happy to vote for somebody instead of defend them without giving us any other leads. For such a big post it doesn't say very much. Please stop coaching and ask one of the real ones for help because if you are town you've just dragged me away from my top scum reads for a moment. Personally I read Mocsta as town and don't mind him trying to lead conversation for the next day and night. If he is scum the amount of talking he'll have to do will eventually make him slip up. I'll also ask you how Corazon is the towniest person here when as soon as he received a few more votes + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 13:27 cDgCorazon wrote: Sigh, I thought this was newbie Mafia, and all of you seem to be using strategies that newbie Mafia players shouldn't know. TL Mafia surfs, maybe? and On December 20 2012 13:28 cDgCorazon wrote: GG were the first things he said. Even if he is being sarcastic it's still just another scum tell in my eyes. You don't post a bunch of potentially scummy things, get told people think you are scum for doing it, and then do it even more. If you are town you try to convince other people that it was a mistake and give them feedback and correct your actions. That taken into account I can explain this massive post as "please don't lynch my scummate" and it all sounds pretty reasonable. | ||
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Sylencia has had a pass today and claimed so ahead of time so we have no reads at all on him. Cakepie hasn't said very much. long posts but not many of them. Kickstart has even fewer posts and much less content. makes it hard to judge him as well. And then Fatchunk would be most likely at the moment if you or Corazon flip scum based on people who have been involved in the conversation. I'd say in those 4 we have a 3rd scum if one is present. | ||
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and if by bandwagon you mean make the case and stick with it for 30~ hours while continuing to bring up new material that hasn't been said. Yup total bandwagon. I ignore the original vote on him as a way to gauge how he reacts and gets conversation started. He slips - argues with Threesr and then I make the 3rd vote on him (2nd with evidence) and push for others to also vote and put pressure on him. I don't think I have to play this game at a higher level than simple. It establishes me as town, helps in scum hunts and I give my input about how people are acting and how I feel about them. Why would I try to be more complex than that in my first game? I'd just confuse people and myself. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 23:20 Spaghetticus wrote: Bugger tomorrow IDGAF While I actually liked the last part and even took a note in the satisfactory column, Omni does little here but say a bunch of safe stuff. He came across as a little bold when he proclaimed his disapproval of thoughtless lynching, but in retrospect this is actually a very safe move. ty, ofc. I'm going to play safe in my first game as VT in mafia. + Show Spoiler + (points finger at Threesr and Corazon) Another safe play. These guys were destined to get it. I predicted the shitstorm (though admittedly I named Shz as well), if the info was available to me it was available to Omni. Targeting the weaker town is a move that a scum naturally does whether they are new or not. What would you do if you were scum? I'd play the same way I am right now but wouldn't have switched my vote from Corazon. Draws unneeded attention. As well as advise my team mates not to make any large plays until day 2 and if possible and there are 3 scum discuss throwing one under the bus themselves N2/D3 to establish one or both of the other scum as good townies. imo pretty basic stuff. + Show Spoiler + If he latched onto Corazon because he realized he would be extremely easy to put him under suspicion. (followed by Corazon actually stating he's Mafia) I can't really see Corazon being town but if he is and has just made every mistake he could then my reason behind Theesr being shitty town would disappear and he would become my #1 scum read instead of #1 shitty town See how if Corazon comes up innocent (which I think he will) then Omni has set the stage to move onto the next easiest player. Even if these players were scum they would pose very little threat. This is positioning for an incredibly strong day three for the mafia, leaving 2-3 strong players, a bunch of lurkers, and zero leads. I've already thought about what happens if Corazon comes up innocent and shz and myself had a nice talk about that earlier. The information we get if he is innocent would still help town. I also like how you take a post from early on in the game and apply its rationale to a point after we have more information. + Show Spoiler + Also Chunk is the only one who has tried to defend Corazon but hasn't come completely out and said he thinks he's innocent, just that with ALL the evidence he still can't vote for him? I'm going to stick with Corazon as my #1 scum read but Chunk seems suspicious just based on that to me. More bagging on the lowest players. The big three are common knowledge and a safe sell at the point of writing the above quote. Omni continues to say absolutely nothing at all risky. He is waiting for things to be safe and then stating the obvious. He openly displays all the signs of posing bluster I resent to demonstrate myself. Why be risky when I am town. scumhunt and give my input is all I've been doing so far in D1. You caught me. doing my role as I intended. + Show Spoiler + If anybody can clearly give us a way to gain more information while at the same time getting rid of suspicion of Corazon I am all for it. I don't want to lynch somebody who could be town just because we all tunnel him. Let's try and get some information from other lurkers. What do they think of the current situation ect. See this? This is someone that has the gall to ask for someone to do the very thing I have been doing, then nails me for it (but only after someone else does... can't be too safe). Clear difference in somebody who scumhunts and somebody who has posted fluff all game, gets voted on for it, and for his defense posts more pointless fluff that doesn't answer anything. What information have you given us exactly? have you seen the results of all of your posts? Any information come out of them? nope. + Show Spoiler + This defense of his vote almost seems like he's committing to a lynch, until you realise he was just waiting for a better lynch for scum to present itself. Yes I believe I'm a bigger prize than Corazon's entirely compromised town play, because I have a better position, and because I play more like a blue role would (less aggression). I still believe he's scum. There is no better lynch than scum. Other scum =/= better. + Show Spoiler + I was ready to tunnel Corazon until your horrid defense to Aqua's case. 100% believe he is scum. Doesn't mean I'm not going to look for other scum though. My defense was not horrid. I take offense. You repeat everything that he is attacking you for. it's horrible. If it wasn't I wouldn't need to be typing right now. + Show Spoiler + and if by bandwagon you mean make the case and stick with it for 30~ hours while continuing to bring up new material that hasn't been said. Yup total bandwagon. I ignore the original vote on him as a way to gauge how he reacts and gets conversation started. He slips - argues with Threesr and then I make the 3rd vote on him (2nd with evidence) and push for others to also vote and put pressure on him. On a person which the zeitgeist favours as a bandwagon. I don't care how long you spent blustering at the obvious pickups of non-town behaviour. The guy's level of play was inadequate and the case made itself. Do you really think his door would not have been knocked down without you? He was in for pressure, from you or otherwise. You wasted your time while pretending to contribute. Scummy. pretending to contribute - putting out information nobody has stated yet and clearly YOU missed his slip. .+ Show Spoiler + I don't think I have to play this game at a higher level than simple. It establishes me as town, helps in scum hunts and I give my input about how people are acting and how I feel about them. Why would I try to be more complex than that in my first game? I'd just confuse people and myself. "I don't know if I'm doing the right thing, so I will assume that I am and not try to improve my play, as playing dumb will convince people I'm town." I know I'm playing D1 1st mafia game ever, I also know I have absolutely no feedback on my play so far. I also know I've built a case based on Corazon both being scum and flipping VT for information (again you are more than welcome to see shz's post for that) I said it myself but it wasn't very clear. He made it make a lot more sense. + Show Spoiler + am actually genuinely impressed with your expression here, regardless of your alignment. The problem I have is that you are pushing to lynch me and my two best town reads because of your failure to look deeper. Try harder. When you address me or speak of me in any way, please refrain from throwing emotional garbage about. It makes me like you more if you don't. Tell me what's wrong with what I said, not how wrong it is. Words without reason are meaningless fluff, or peripheral associative priming depending on who the listener is. A townie should have logic behind his claims. Or just not give any input at all and pretend to be helping I guess. Then get called out for it and still post the fluff you hate. I didn't get emotional stop getting so defensive because I called your defense trash. which it was. Horrid really. + Show Spoiler + Rebuke of Mocsta's Early Town Tells: He was potentially misleading town, and setting himself up to take control. I stopped him the same way I did SS, though I did not make a case out of it because there wasn't one. Theory of Town and Scum: I have not stated my thoughts but that does not mean I haven't devoted a lot of time developing them. I'm confirming with a large degree of confidence that neither Threesr nor Corazon are scum. This degree of confidence is a big deal for a meticulous SOAB like me. I've determined that Chromatiacally, Aquinim, Cakepie, and Mocsta will need to be dealt with later rather than now if they happen to be scum. That's narrowed the list of lynchable candidates down to six for me, this is no small analysis! Your assertion that I have not developed any theory is BS. Rather than flaunt every thought that tickles my ol' brain I know my understanding will only get better with time, and voting now is pretentious or whimsical. Asking Kickstart for meta reads: You say this wasn’t useful. Surely you could see the potential of such a move? I am lighting a fire under a lurker, and attempting to mine a new vein of data. As far as post efficiency goes you can’t fault me on this. “So Spag thinks that the best way to get town back to scumhunting is to defend someone under pressure, not make a case himself? Words fail me.” In this particular instance this is exactly what I thought. I don’t have any really solid cases, I am still narrowing down suspects. Any case I would post at that point would likely fall on deaf ears and I really believed I could benefit town by taking pressure off of the obvious targets and spreading the suspicion around. "Spag's whole "I'm defending Corazon but still happy to vote for him" BS is a classic scum move too - keeping his options open for new developments so he doesn't have to contradict himself later. I'm not saying that town would never do this, but it's pretty damn scummy." I am no longer happy to vote for Corazon which I believe I expressed in the same post. Through writing the post I came to the conclusion that he is the towniest person here, and I will stand by that statement. I am sorry I did not go back through and edit for consistency, I was tired after doing a LOT of legwork for this game. You’re welcome. Where in that is anything not just smoke and mirrors? You don't answer a single thing. You still don't take a firm stance on anything other than ignoring other reads, that you have stayed consistent with, and you still don't offer any scum hunting but instead you say you still don't have enough information to even post on who you think might be scum. You were called out, I didn't think much of it, you returned with nothing, I voted. Aqua's case against you was much stronger than your defense of yourself. | ||
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I'm gonna grab a bite to eat and then see what else can be learned from this. I don't think we have been entirely wrong guys. Corazon/FC/Sylencia/Kickstart still under heavy suspicion from me. When Sylencia starts to post more we'll hopefully get a better read if town/scum. Kickstart has been lurking and its very difficult to see what he actually thinks of this lynch but a few of his posts have been ok. | ||
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To put it simply for you. I am VT. I scumhunt. I give my thoughts to the rest of you. If thats all you've got for a case that I claimed VT and then proceeded to play like a townie and continue to contribute to town... you caught me. Spaghetticus tried his hardest to find something in my filter and couldn't even come back with a FoS and I was voting for him. Don't get distracted on me, it will just waste time. Yes I'm being defensive - this is my defense after all. | ||
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Go make your case, I'll prove you wrong again and then you can hunt some actual scum k? | ||
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Reads I'll start off with Corazon. After re-reading everything he's said a few times I believe I owe him an apology. As he defended Spag while the vote was on him I'm willing to say I believe he is town. He stuck with his vote on Theesr the entire time. I am willing to overlook every mistake up to this point in his posting and trust that what ever he says from now on is from the mouth of a townie. I believe strong town reads are Mocsta, Chromatically, and Aquanim. If Aquanim were scum, he didn't need to try to get Spag lynched to save Corazon, as Corazon defended Spag and imo proved his innocence. If Aqua were scum he could have sat back and let us lynch Cora. - same thing happens N1 but his name isn't out there for starting the lynch. For this I believe Aqua is town. FC's actions at the end of D1 still throw me off a little bit. On one hand he's defending him (much too late) and if he were scum and knew Spag would turn up town it would make it easy for him to try and give a last minute case about why he thinks he's innocent. Hard to tell as he makes a few good points as well. He also tried to defend Corazon when nobody else would. Makes it much harder for me to call him scum now. Theesr moves to my #1 scum read as even during the lynch of Spag he really doesn't seem to care. I believe he even says at one point he doesn't care. Again I owe an apology to Corazon as I believe he might be right in thinking Theesr is Scum or possible SK. Shz fits into a middle ground for me. I am neutral about him for the time being. I'll need to look through the filter again. with them gone the people I really have trouble marking come out. Orange, Kick, Cakepie, and Sylencia. I'll enjoy having Sylencia around more often now and it should bring some more insight on him but I find it incredibly hard to read the other three and can't tell if they represent town or scum at all. TL:DR sorry Cora, I believe you are town along with Mocsta, Aqua, Chrom, and maybe shz/fc Aqua I think you should look this over and see if it makes sense to you. Moc/Chrom/shz/cora as well. I believe if we use D1 as any indicator we can assume this to be correct. I admit I was wrong about Corazon after reading through everything again and thinking about it for awhile. Hopefully we can move on and get some of these lurkers out in the open | ||
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He generally feeds off what other people say and starts conversations with them to try and scum hunt without leading a player in a direction which I also think is a pretty big sign of a helpful townie. | ||
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For very similar reasons as you Mocsta I believe Chrom is town. He was the one who originally made the case against Corazon which at that point was the correct move imo. He advanced our conversations and gave us a lot of information, even with this lynch it has still been helpful in clearing some of the confusion I had after I went over all of the posts. He pressures well, he asks good questions. and again there is a lot to go through but I couldn't find any real scum tells. He made his major cases against FC and Cora and they were both very well thought out imo. Very easy to see him as town at this point. and idk if I take offense to that or not Mocsta but if you see an error in the way I've said I see things please let me know. That goes for anybody. | ||
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You are absolutely right though. I was intending to switch my vote back to Cora after Spag cleared himself because until that point I hadn't actually thought of him as scummy in the least. but I said it a few times, Aqua's case was much stronger than Spag's defense in my eyes. | ||
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Anyway on to Corazon, as I mentioned in the quote you posted his starting game was bad, as I was going to sleep and reading everything over he was already becoming scum in my mind, I woke up and read through 6~ more pages of him making bad posts, excuses and no real answers to anything and then posts that he's mafia. I honestly just had a hard time anybody would be so nervous that even while being careful they would post so many scummy things. as per what he means about the NK from what I take from it and the only thing that makes sense is that scum will avoid targeting me because they know I'm not blue. If that isn't what he meant about the NK then I don't know. | ||
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Hopefully everyone realizes that at the time all my scum reads and the one tell on Corazon made sense. However I wasn't about to let us waste 72 hours to get myself lynched and we end up with 3 dead townies going into N2. | ||
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On December 21 2012 19:48 OmniEulogy wrote: Alright, so to get more conversation going I'm going to go over pretty much everything I believe we've learned from D1. Reads I'll start off with Corazon. After re-reading everything he's said a few times I believe I owe him an apology. As he defended Spag while the vote was on him I'm willing to say I believe he is town. He stuck with his vote on Theesr the entire time. I am willing to overlook every mistake up to this point in his posting and trust that what ever he says from now on is from the mouth of a townie. I believe strong town reads are Mocsta, Chromatically, and Aquanim. If Aquanim were scum, he didn't need to try to get Spag lynched to save Corazon, as Corazon defended Spag and imo proved his innocence. If Aqua were scum he could have sat back and let us lynch Cora. - same thing happens N1 but his name isn't out there for starting the lynch. For this I believe Aqua is town. FC's actions at the end of D1 still throw me off a little bit. On one hand he's defending him (much too late) and if he were scum and knew Spag would turn up town it would make it easy for him to try and give a last minute case about why he thinks he's innocent. Hard to tell as he makes a few good points as well. He also tried to defend Corazon when nobody else would. Makes it much harder for me to call him scum now. Theesr moves to my #1 scum read as even during the lynch of Spag he really doesn't seem to care. I believe he even says at one point he doesn't care. Again I owe an apology to Corazon as I believe he might be right in thinking Theesr is Scum or possible SK. Shz fits into a middle ground for me. I am neutral about him for the time being. I'll need to look through the filter again. with them gone the people I really have trouble marking come out. Orange, Kick, Cakepie, and Sylencia. I'll enjoy having Sylencia around more often now and it should bring some more insight on him but I find it incredibly hard to read the other three and can't tell if they represent town or scum at all. TL:DR sorry Cora, I believe you are town along with Mocsta, Aqua, Chrom, and maybe shz/fc Aqua I think you should look this over and see if it makes sense to you. Moc/Chrom/shz/cora as well. I believe if we use D1 as any indicator we can assume this to be correct. I admit I was wrong about Corazon after reading through everything again and thinking about it for awhile. Hopefully we can move on and get some of these lurkers out in the open The only thing that even slightly incriminates Chrom is that he asked me why I thought Mocsta was town, I gave my reason and I turned out to be right. Mocsta gets lynched while trying to investigate me. I sure as hell would not lynch somebody as they are forming my investigation. I haven't lied once all game, From the information we had and the fact that Cora claimed scum I assumed he couldn't be making that many bad decisions and was just scum under pressure. I was wrong. I've already gone over that. My vote on Spag I have already also gone over. The vote was pressure that I had meant to remove after clearing up his case and he poorly handled it and it led to his lynching. USE the information it gave us instead of continuing to go after people. Example: Orangeremi right now, votes for me based on what? has he read my posts or even discussed what was said/learned from D1/N1 lynch / death. Mocsta and I both FoS'd him at the same time (mine about 10 seconds before Mocsta's post) And now he's doing it again. quietly trying to get his vote in and slip out again. Read his filter. what has he contributed in the last 36~ hours? It's a weak case but he's one of the people I can't put my finger on. As a claimed VT I ask that Chrom, Aqua, Corazon and shz take a serious look at what I have posted as I believe the townies I can't confirm will also be more likely to agree with your opinions. I even said I liked Mocsta leading our group and couldn't see him as scum (to chrom directly). The way Spag flipped town really hurt my credibility and I realized that immediately so I made the N1 post on my reads. read it over and get back to me. Mocsta's death does not change my mind on those reads. Again if anybody finds any problems with this let us ALL know now. Otherwise why are we targeting the townies because the lurkers haven't given us any information on themselves and have been allowed to get away with it. | ||
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I'll start off with Corazon. After re-reading everything he's said a few times I believe I owe him an apology. As he defended Spag while the vote was on him I'm willing to say I believe he is town. He stuck with his vote on Theesr the entire time. Considering I just asked you to read this and it was the very first thing said... But to expand further for you 1) Corazon did not make the case vs Spag 2) Spag was the only one who made a large defense for Corazon 3) Aqua made the case vs Spag 4) Corazon did not get on this wagon at any point - made cases for why we should NOT lynch Spag but instead Threesr. - points to his innocence. quite loudly. As for Spags case and me claiming VT 1) I voted as pressure, not intending to keep my vote on him (said this like three times now) 2) + Show Spoiler + I've already thought about what happens if Corazon comes up innocent and shz and myself had a nice talk about that earlier. 3) So I claimed knowing that if I didn't I would be doing it in 20 minutes anyway, and look at that I was right. As I've said before On December 22 2012 01:53 OmniEulogy wrote: ha you beat me to it but at least I understood what you meant and I agree. I still would have claimed as soon as you questioned me though. I saw it coming and reacted before hand. As I've already said + Show Spoiler + On December 22 2012 02:21 OmniEulogy wrote: because Spag made it his last case to try and convince somebody I was scum. He was town its not hard to assume I'll become a target. | ||
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On December 23 2012 00:52 Chromatically wrote: So you preemptively claimed VT to defend yourself against a case that would only hold any weight if he flipped town? Think about this thought process for a minute: - "I think Spag will flip scum, I'm voting for him" - "If he flips town, I'll be under suspicion" - "Even though I don't think he'll flip town, I should claim VT to defend myself on the off chance that he does" That makes no sense. Also, why did you know that you would be claiming after the flip? It makes perfect sense, he flips scum I've claimed VT, we have a ton of information from a successful hit on D1 and mafia won't know if I'm telling the truth or if I'm a blue trying to veil it as we pick off the rest of their members. It's not perfect but I thought it out and the risk vs reward worked either way. I already explained why I knew it would be happening in 20 minutes anyway. Spag tried to make me into scum. I might add after his entire case he didn't even FoS me or even say he was thinking about voting for me because he couldn't find anything to indicate that I was trying to hurt town in anything I had done. If you mean how did I know more directly, because what other defense do I have other than all my posts, which I then would have to go back and admit I was wrong about my scum reads, and my role. | ||
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I did not say that I claimed to give more information. I said that it makes sense to claim VT even if I thought he was scum because if he isn't I would be put into this position one way or the other. You argued how I'd know he is town, I replied by saying I didn't, I was pretty confident AND when he flipped scum the information we would gain would be far greater than scum learning my role. I'm not changing any story I'm just giving you more information behind my thought process because you've asked the same question in different ways about 3 times. I have to go into more detail. Nowhere in there do I say I claim to give town information. ##FoS: Chromatically This is twice you've tried to either twist my words or intentionally misunderstand to try and get your own agenda out. In the first sentence again no less. | ||
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By the way nobody seems to have a problem with my post for the reads right? ##Vote: Threesr My case on you btw is the fact that you don't post anything constructive, you have said nothing of merit, and claim you are too lazy to post or contribute. From the very start till now. Chrom has been the only person to defend you @Chromatically what are your thoughts about Threesr now? after an extra 48 hours and still nothing good to say other than + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 13:11 threesr wrote: Well since no one is going to vote for this FC guy my plan is to hop on the Corazon train. Im still down for a Mocsta lynch if you guys wanna do that. ##unvote ##vote cDgCorazon On December 22 2012 07:51 threesr wrote: Too lazy to do that atm, i dont care about your opinion of me at all just fyi. which was his 3rd post in over a day. Wonders why we have almost all called him scum. | ||
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##FoS: FatChunk Please give concrete examples of myself and Chrom working together in a way that implies what you are saying. N1 he made the biggest cast on me and D2 he has given me the most trouble. I'm interested to see what you come up with. @Chrom I am much less convinced in voting on Shz after his defense of us because if he was scum it would be easy to push a lynch on me. I also said before that I had a neutral opinion of Shz and that has more or less stayed true. His recent contributions have been well thought out and although it isn't really scum hunting I believe it's still good that he is trying to explain who he thinks is town and why. I believe I should also add @Shz I still have a town read on Chroma. My FoS was defensive and meant as a way for him to stop misunderstanding my posts and read them again. Actually based on Shz's case for me, and I know I'm town, it wouldn't make any sense for scum to defend me and put himself at risk through association right now so I'm leaning towards him being town. my top reads are FC, and Orange for pushing this rediculous case that Chrom and I are a scumteam. I know I'm Town and still have a pretty good read on town Chrom so I can only view it as an attempt to bandwagon Mocsta's idea and try to get another town lynch D2 while they go under the radar by saying it was Mocsta's last case against me. And then Threesr is just absolutely useless so I wouldn't mind getting rid of him but I admit I don't really like the idea of possibly wasting D2's vote on him. Let's keep in mind Orange said On December 22 2012 14:01 Orangeremi wrote: @cake I'm interested in his theory regarding you+OE+Chrom scum team, but I don't know how much credibility it has. and then without saying he has changed his mind on anything After viewing Chrom's evidence towards Omni and then reviewing it myself, there's no way he's town. I would take all the players I've mentioned with a grain of salt, especially since I haven't made a case for any of them. He's taking the word of somebody he believes to be scum and using their case on somebody he believes to be their scum mate? I call BS. ##FoS: Orangeremi ##Unvote | ||
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Anyway, Cake seems town to me. Aqua remains town. Chrom could be the only masquerading scum in active posters or scum has made it seem that way. I'll just assume Cora is town but more harmful to us than Threesr at this point. Shz either made a smart move defending me and calculated the way this vote would go as mafia so he would get out of suspicion or is also town. Lurkers remain forever hidden and will get another 72~ free hours to not contribute so scum can hide until D3 without worry if my lynch goes through. ##Vote: Orangeremi The only "active" lurker throughout the game who hasn't made a case on anybody in nearly 100 hours. | ||
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Basically it comes down to, Corazon defended Spag while Corazon was still #1 lynch. If he was scum he shouldn't try to save him. Aqua started the case, if Corazon is town and Aqua is scum, Aqua doesn't need to throw his name out there to get people to switch to Spag. The only way it makes sense is if both Aqua and Corazon are scum and Cora's consistent terrible play is intentional. I've just decided he's bad at reading though and he continues to support that. Anyway as I seem to be on my way to the noose and you'll soon find everything I've said to be 100% true. Chrom has distracted you all from getting any information from lurkers or what to do about them today. Shz stepped up and as I've said before either made a really smooth play as mafia by defending me (knowing my alignment) or really did look through the posts and come to the right conclusions. and cake I find your posts to be very well written and you've made real cases on people, you haven't defended them before they flip town. | ||
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Corazon READ THE POSTS for god's sake. I am not calling Aqua scum. You had better be joking and I'm just not getting it or it's getting seriously sad. | ||
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1) I flip town, Shz is cleared, and Chrom doesn't know what to do anymore considering he's going to look like scum. Personally I still think Chrom is town guys. @All How many people haven't said anything today? | ||
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Chrom tunneled me, possible mafia now who has blended in well. I still believe he's town though. Cora can't understand what he is reading and constantly misquotes people. I hope he's a genius mafia but I think he's just bad town. Threesr... + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386911&user=166169 OrangeRemi: over 100 hours with no reads on anybody. As I said before the only active lurker, he voted for me and disappeared again without leaving any reasoning other than I was the top scum pick. He seems a bit obvious really. Sylencia has done one thing that has gone ignored because of lack of information. His case (?) on Kick. Other than that same as Orange but with less information to base an opinion on. Kick has actually posted much less than Threesr. Again, good luck with information. FC, incriminating D1, has burrowed since then Basically I think we're screwed. Start looking at what happens when I flip VT cause I honestly think the scum have played this perfectly. We didn't go after the lurkers, have lost a massive amount of information and because we didn't have information we turned on each other and made imaginary cases on ourselves because we don't have a clue about the others. | ||
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Cake's posting was much better today. He made some real cases (I think he wrote one for me) and came up with some pretty good information. Mind you I was already a massive target so it probably wasn't hard for him to do... and after that he hasn't posted so I don't know =/ | ||
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On December 31 2012 09:50 Hapahauli wrote: GG guys! @ Corazon Fantastic game from ya! I wish I screenshotted your pre-edited post in the Newbie XXXVI thread where you basically claimed scum - it was crazy how much you improved from your Day 1 play. Well done! lol yeah I saw this too and had to play like I hadn't. hardest thing in the world to put out of my mind >.< Had to ask Hapa if I should just play w/ the information or not lol | ||
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On December 31 2012 09:59 Hapahauli wrote: Nope! Haha, glad you learned something from our PM's. A couple of townies were trying to put together scumteams, and I think that's a pretty faulty way of playing. Your job is to lynch the scummiest player, and then make the associations. Association cases can catch really straighforward scum plans, but against any decent scumteam, such cases are worthless. For example, I just finished a game (Witchcraft Mafia) where two scum members spent most of the game double-bussing each other. Shz and I had put together Cora/FC D1 but I agree, I've learned why it doesn't work now that I've watched this game. It'll be hard not to do it though >.< that and lists. lol | ||
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