EPTI posted my case before Mocsta posted his, there would be no reason to try and bus Omni...
Newbie Mini Mafia XXXIII - Page 5
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
I posted my case before Mocsta posted his, there would be no reason to try and bus Omni... | ||
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From experience, it is extremely awkward to talk about your scumbuddies. In XXXI, I never mentioned Kickstart unless I practically had to. Apart from the supposed association with Omni, he accuses me of bandwagoning you (Corazon), except I actually wrote the original case. Pushing scumreads =/= bandwagoning. He says I'm aggressive.. which is not a scum trait. If there's a specific point you want to draw my attention to, that's fine, but his case barely analyses me at all. | ||
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If you're not voting for OE, you should have a very good explanation why. | ||
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On December 22 2012 20:27 OmniEulogy wrote: ... The only thing that even slightly incriminates Chrom is that he asked me why I thought Mocsta was town, I gave my reason and I turned out to be right. Mocsta gets lynched while trying to investigate me. I sure as hell would not lynch somebody as they are forming my investigation. I haven't lied once all game, From the information we had and the fact that Cora claimed scum I assumed he couldn't be making that many bad decisions and was just scum under pressure. I was wrong. I've already gone over that. My vote on Spag I have already also gone over. The vote was pressure that I had meant to remove after clearing up his case and he poorly handled it and it led to his lynching. USE the information it gave us instead of continuing to go after people. ... If this is your defense, it's not very convincing. You gave no reaoning from upgrading Corazon from "100% scum" to town other than "I looked it over". Your Spag vote justification doesn't help cover up your slip. Spag had already posted his defense and you were convinced that he was scum, when you claimed VT. If you really thought Spag was scum, you wouldn't have expected to come under pressure and you wouldn't have claimed. | ||
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On December 22 2012 22:40 OmniEulogy wrote: As for Spags case and me claiming VT 1) I voted as pressure, not intending to keep my vote on him (said this like three times now) 2) + Show Spoiler + I've already thought about what happens if Corazon comes up innocent and shz and myself had a nice talk about that earlier. 3) So I claimed knowing that if I didn't I would be doing it in 20 minutes anyway, and look at that I was right. As I've said before I saw it coming and reacted before hand. As I've already said + Show Spoiler + On December 22 2012 02:21 OmniEulogy wrote: because Spag made it his last case to try and convince somebody I was scum. He was town its not hard to assume I'll become a target. To point 1): It doesn't matter if you voted as pressure or intended to keep your vote on him. You did keep your vote on him until the end of the day. Did you think that Spag was scum up until the flip? | ||
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On December 22 2012 22:40 OmniEulogy wrote: ... As for Spags case and me claiming VT 1) I voted as pressure, not intending to keep my vote on him (said this like three times now) 2) + Show Spoiler + I've already thought about what happens if Corazon comes up innocent and shz and myself had a nice talk about that earlier. 3) So I claimed knowing that if I didn't I would be doing it in 20 minutes anyway, and look at that I was right. As I've said before I saw it coming and reacted before hand. As I've already said + Show Spoiler + On December 22 2012 02:21 OmniEulogy wrote: because Spag made it his last case to try and convince somebody I was scum. He was town its not hard to assume I'll become a target. So you preemptively claimed VT to defend yourself against a case that would only hold any weight if he flipped town? Think about this thought process for a minute: - "I think Spag will flip scum, I'm voting for him" - "If he flips town, I'll be under suspicion" - "Even though I don't think he'll flip town, I should claim VT to defend myself on the off chance that he does" That makes no sense. Also, why did you know that you would be claiming after the flip? | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On December 22 2012 01:52 OmniEulogy wrote: quick thing about claiming VT. You would have forced me to role claim about 20 minutes after I had made that original post. I saw it coming (not from you in particular but knew somebody was going to come after me after the lynch) so doing it 10 minutes before D1 ended or 10 minutes into N1 doesn't really make the largest difference. If I don't role claim early in that situation imo D2 I'm the easiest lynch at that point in time. Anyway on to Corazon, as I mentioned in the quote you posted his starting game was bad, as I was going to sleep and reading everything over he was already becoming scum in my mind, I woke up and read through 6~ more pages of him making bad posts, excuses and no real answers to anything and then posts that he's mafia. I honestly just had a hard time anybody would be so nervous that even while being careful they would post so many scummy things. as per what he means about the NK from what I take from it and the only thing that makes sense is that scum will avoid targeting me because they know I'm not blue. If that isn't what he meant about the NK then I don't know. You never mention in there any other reason for your claim other than "people would force me to". That's the only reason you've presented so far for your claim, and now you're trying to justify it a different way. You're changing your story as you go. And several times now, you've said that you "knew someone would come after you" or that you "knew you'd be forced to claim". If Spag flipped town, people come after you. If Spag flipped scum, no one comes after you. If you knew that you'd be forced to claim after the flip, then you knew that Spag would flip town. | ||
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On December 23 2012 01:46 OmniEulogy wrote: you are misunderstanding pretty badly. Or intentionally trying to twist what I am saying. I did not say that I claimed to give more information. I said that it makes sense to claim VT even if I thought he was scum because if he isn't I would be put into this position one way or the other. You argued how I'd know he is town, I replied by saying I didn't, I was pretty confident AND when he flipped scum the information we would gain would be far greater than scum learning my role. I'm not changing any story I'm just giving you more information behind my thought process because you've asked the same question in different ways about 3 times. I have to go into more detail. Nowhere in there do I say I claim to give town information. ##FoS: Chromatically This is twice you've tried to either twist my words or intentionally misunderstand to try and get your own agenda out. In the first sentence again no less. You've said that your reasoning for claiming, if Spag was town, is to defend yourself. This is your reasoning for claiming, if he was scum: "he flips scum I've claimed VT, we have a ton of information from a successful hit on D1". I assumed that the reason it was good to claim even in the instance of Spag flipping scum was to give town information. Is this incorrect? If so, why would you claim when you think he'll flip scum? I know I've asked this before but I still don't see your reasoning for doing so. Why would you be put into this position one way or another? If he flips scum you're in no way forced to claim, because no one is suspicious of you. I'm sorry to ask these questions over and over but I'm not getting answers. | ||
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I get that townies do things that don't make sense to me sometimes, and your reaction feels very genuinely townie to me. Plus you're at least an active poster. Threesr is basically completely unreadable. When he was posting actively, it didn't feel like scum because he wasn't careful enough. I still don't really think he's scum, a bored townie is more likely. I would only lynch him as a last resort, if no one else looked good. I really don't like the feel of shz, and I hate that he completely dropped off the radar. Maybe this will summon him? ##Vote: shz Probably will write a case today. I'm also not liking Orange either. | ||
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shz has been playing like classic scum. Real stances are nonexistant, real contribution is nonexistant, yet he manages to blend in and look like a contributor very well. On December 19 2012 18:19 shz wrote: Could not sleep, so I can be at least productive here. I think we pretty much made it clear that we don't accept lurking as a playstyle for Town, so I don't think this will be much of a problem. If it is, we also made the consequences clear for everyone. Our focus should be to find null- & unconstructive posts which don't help us at all. That would be a pretty good starting point to pressure and get some more information. Corazon did indeed more or less only reacted to direct questions and was not that talkative in general. I don't think that is a huge tell, but why not investigate further? The interesting thing is that he/she kinda defended lurking and lying. I don't agree with the arguments at all, as they seem a bit weak and pointless. His first "contribution" is here. This looks like a good post at first: it's fairly long, it covers a lot of topics. However, all this is is a summary of what's happened so far. He doesn't take any stances on any of the issues of the time: look at the wishy-washiness on Corazon. He's afraid to take an actual stand, so he says things like "they seem a bit weak" instead of taking a position on it himself. This is merely the first in a long line of posts of this type, taking no stances while writing long posts anyway: + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 02:57 shz wrote: As I did not get any sleep tonight, I caught some of it up until now. This is getting somewhere. So I'll start with answering my questions and then stating my thoughts. Your analysis is quite thought out and you point out three POIs and try to get something out of it by pressuring them. This is good. At the same time you still trying to get reads on most of the others by asking questions. I don't think these three are your only suspects. All in all I tend towards town as I don't see much evidence which would support you scumminess. I don't agree with your vote for Orangeremi at the moment though. Yes, he did not contribute until now, but I would give him some more hours before lynching him for that. @Mocsta So I'm scum because I said that my case against you wasn't waterproof? What would have happened if I acted so sure about you, as you act about everyone who attacks you? You getting quite defensive and jumping to, rather fast, conclusions about who is mafia and who is not. You changed your vote from me to threesr immediatly to countervote him and then spam a couple of posts saying "how easy it was", "he slipped", in big red bold latter. This is way over dramatized. To top that of you trying to martyr your way into town. I don't like that at all. I'm still not 100% conviced, but this is not helping you. For now my vote stands. And I think threesr, however fishy and rare his posts are at the moment, has a point. You seem quite conviced and at the same you are saying you are not. I don't have an opinion on FatChunk yet, as he did not contribute enough. If we don't find a conses by the lynch-deadline, we should lynch one of the lesser active players, for sure. Answers a question directed to him, defends himself a little against Mocsta, and still takes no stands. Noncommittal reads on Mocsta ("For now my vote stands"), threesr (leaving his options open by throwing a little suspicion his way), and FatChunk (doesn't have an opinion). On December 20 2012 08:45 shz wrote: Mocsta did contribute more than FatChunk before I voted him. It seems some of the players have awaken and contributed to the discussion, but some are lurking too much. 1. I'm really getting tired of threesr. Even if he/she isn't mafia he/she is creating so much chaos, only commentates snarky and very brief. He/She is dangerous whethere scum or not. 2. Kickstarter stated that he/she thinks lurking is bad, but lurks him/herself. 3. Orangerem is lurking too much. 4. Sylencia too, but that was announced, so we have to see how the next couple of play-days go. More noncommittal reads. Wants to lynch threesr even if he's not mafia and attacks Kickstart, Orange, and Sylencia for lurking (very easy for scum to do). On December 22 2012 01:58 shz wrote: "Whatever bandwagon is popular right now" is not true. My mocsta vote was to push for an discussion and I did explain my Corazone vote before. If you want to quote, don quote out of context. + Show Spoiler [Corazone reasons] + On December 20 2012 11:19 shz wrote: The question is, what information do we get if we lynch one of the current suspects. Corazon If Mafia: - threesr most likely not scum. - FatChunk unknown, but showing scummy tendencies as he/she did kinda defend Corazon and plans on voting to lynch threesr. If Town: - threesr not off the hook, but still not confirmed either. - FatChunk unknown, but leaning towards town, for the same reason as stated before. FatChunk If Mafia: - Corazone possible mafia, but not confirmed. - threesr most likely not scum. If Town: - Corazone still possible mafia. - threesr still possbile mafia. threesr If Mafia: - Likely town: Mocsta, Corazon (Very likely town), and FatChunk If Town: - Corazone still possible mafia. - FatChunk still possible mafia. I'm starting to think that Corazon is indeed the best vote at the moment. On December 20 2012 12:53 shz wrote: We we will never be able to be sure, so we have to single some guys out, discuss, search for tells, and lynch one. And I think it is to our benifit to also include possible information we can get from it in our decisions. We will most certainly lynch town too, so better make it worthwhile in terms of information. This is not me saying we should lynch town for information, it is saying we should always keep in mind that our lynch can flip as town, so better take the safe bet and at least get some information out of, if the worst case will happen. I think all three are good (for the amount of information we have) picks. Excactly. But after I read the reasons to vote for Spaghetti, it made sense. Of course it didn't matter anyway because he was dead at that point, but whatever. At the moment I'm leaning forwards FatChunk. But not sure at all at the moment, and I'm busy as fuck so I don't think I can contribute more tonight, I am working on a post with my thoughs on anyone but I have to go now~~. Sorry for the lack of contributions. I will look into FatChunk and see if my suspicion holds true. And I still have the feeling that out of the big mass contributors, there is a scum somewhere.Chroma, Mocsta, etc. Do whatever you think of it. Leans toward FatChunk, but is not sure. Also points the finger at "the big mass contributors", which says nothing at all. Next, let's examine his voting patterns: On December 19 2012 18:33 shz wrote: So if we need another wagon to jump, or not, to jump on: ##Vote: Mocsta Why? He/She did start a discussion, but I don't think that was all that useful, other than proving him being active and establish an alibi. Questions like the seafood one waste time and distract from substantial discussion. Also he/she is quite fast on "reading" someone as Town. Additionally he/she asked repeatedly about Mafia strategies. This is no way a waterproof case, but I think its a start and something we could work with. The first vote on Mocsta for some fairly lackluster reasons. I'm not going to say much about this, it could have town or scum motivation behind it, really no way to tell. I could see the scum motivation of discrediting an active townie and possibly pushing that as their mislynch if a mafia was in danger. On December 20 2012 11:19 shz wrote: The question is, what information do we get if we lynch one of the current suspects. Corazon If Mafia: - threesr most likely not scum. - FatChunk unknown, but showing scummy tendencies as he/she did kinda defend Corazon and plans on voting to lynch threesr. If Town: - threesr not off the hook, but still not confirmed either. - FatChunk unknown, but leaning towards town, for the same reason as stated before. FatChunk If Mafia: - Corazone possible mafia, but not confirmed. - threesr most likely not scum. If Town: - Corazone still possible mafia. - threesr still possbile mafia. threesr If Mafia: - Likely town: Mocsta, Corazon (Very likely town), and FatChunk If Town: - Corazone still possible mafia. - FatChunk still possible mafia. I'm starting to think that Corazon is indeed the best vote at the moment. He votes Corazon shortly after this post, but with no other justification. He's blatantly lynching for information and is not even paying remote attention to whether Corazon is actually scummy or not. This is the first time he's actually mentioned Corazon since his first (non)read. This was also during the phase of the competing threesr/Corazon wagons, so this is obviously an extremely safe vote. On December 21 2012 01:57 shz wrote: Before I'm on the road for most of the day before the lynch: 1. We should not assume someone is playing bad or good because of information from sources outside this game. I don't think this is very worthy of discussion. For all we know everybody could be a smurf, played with a smurf before, or just played somewhere else. Don't assume anything, look at their actions in this game. 2. It is too early to discuss possible SK. We don't know if this role is even in this game. We should stick to looking for scum for now. 3. New development! - So, Carazon is on the verge of getting lynched today and Spaghetticus comes out of nowhere to help. What does that mean? Either Carazon is Scum, Spaghetti is not, both are or neither is. If Spaghetti is scum, Carazon is too. Otherwise it does not make sense to help him/her out. But this does not help us very much. So the question is if we should change from Carazon to someone else? What are the argument for not voting Corazon Spaghetti provided: - Statistics: This does not matter at all. If there is a 75% propability for the wrong lynch in day it stays the same whether we Lynch Cora or anyonw else. - Votes arent locked, wie can always change Thema before the deadline. - There is still discussion going on. Cora defended, people analyized. We are not just stopping to post just because Cora is the target at the moment. I'm not convinced by Spaghettis arguments. Art the Moment I can see him as scum too. I'm not ruling out voting him out. - Aquanim changes his vote from Corazon to make a case against Spaghetti. While I agree that Spaghetti is possible scum, the argument that rational posts = scum is dumb. If anything overly emotional argumemts are Moore scum. Here's his next big post, as the Spag case has been made, but before the wagon has really taken off. This is another post which looks informative at first, but actually has no content. There's literally no positions taken in this post at all. He has a paragraph about Corazon/Spag associations, but doesn't reach a conclusion. He shoots down a little of Spag's defense, but that's very easy for scum to do. Note that he doesn't actually vote Spag at this time, even though the case was posted already. On December 21 2012 07:25 shz wrote: It seems like we have the strongest case against Spag at the moment. I will still keepmy eye on Cora, but for now: ##unvote ##Vote Spaghetticus @Aqua: If you did not argue that, then its all good. Of course rational not equals town, but its not equal mafia either. Its neutral. Blatant sheep onto the wagon when it's finally clear that Spag is the lynch for today (6 on Spag v 3 on Cora). Zero justification is given at all for this vote, ever. Note that he only votes Spag after the wagon has taken off and it's clearly a safe vote. Apart from that, that's it. shz has: - sheeped onto Cora and Spag with no reasoning when the wagons took off - posted long posts that look good, but take no stances at all - lynched solely for information - done nothing else | ||
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Here's what I think happened: Scum omni knows spag will turn town, and pre-claims VT innocent in an attempt to avoid defending against spag's challenges. Otherwise, town omni would genuinely expect spag to turn scum, and then would have no reason to claim VT. This is because scum spag's scum read on omni would be discarded immediately upon spag turning red. This is pretty much what I was thinking with Omni, but his explanation is passable and townies do silly things some times. So I'm letting it slide for now. | ||
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However, the problem is that you've provided no new information. Summary posts are an easy way to look like a contributor without saying anything new. Throughout your entire filter, there's no actual analysis or contribution at all. The problem isn't that you've sheeped, it's that you've only sheeped, and nothing else. | ||
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I think Orange might be a good lynch later, but I am not nearly as confident in that as I am in shz. | ||
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