Chrono Trigger Mafia

On November 21 2012 11:01 Promethelax wrote:
I see Acro has sniped me in terms of the idea of any potential leader posting their core group. Has anyone played in a similar set-up before? Or does anyone have the link to Resistance? I haven't read it.

Based on the fact that Acro had the same though as me and from our last game together I would currently, put him in my team, along with Acro I would add Marv (come on, wouldn't you?) and as third player I would chose Hapa. Hapa is a guy who over many games I have come to like and respect though I once hated him. He is a great town player and a kinda crappy scum player, seems like the right guy to have along for the ride.

TL:DR My team: Acro, Marv, Hapa

I'm curious if putting one player who seems like a liability (one of the guys known for trolling or one of the smurfs) onto the team so that we can get a read on them from their actions makes sense? It seems like we won't have lynches but knowing who scum is/is not will help town players direct any and all actions which they have and i assume making sure that non-town players not being on the quest team will be a good thing for us as the OP specifies that they can make it more difficult to achieve our objectives.

On November 21 2012 11:03 Clarity_nl wrote:
I'm reading up on resistance mafia, as it was said the setups might be simillar in some ways and I'm not familiar with it.
Just got lynched in my other game so can focus on this starting tomorrow.

I nominate myself as our heroic leader because almost everyone here doesn't know me. That way you won't be fooled by people playing wifom games with their meta!

On November 21 2012 11:17 sandroba wrote:
I hereby declare I want to lead you simpletons to victory. My party selection will be as following: I will choose 3 of the less known players who I read as town at the end of the day to compose the party. The reasoning is that this mechanic will greatly favor town in attempting to confirm players. This is better done for players less likely to get shot for 2 reasons: 1) They have less meta information available on them therefore harder to read. 2) Vets/Well known players are likely to get killed n1 if they are town, even more so given a successful mission, mitigating some of the advantage town might get. This serves to both preserve the good/known players and to keep the confirmed/likely town around longer.
I'd like everyone to chime in on this subject of party selection and help come to the optimum way of doing things.

On November 21 2012 11:30 kushm4sta wrote:
IMO:
Put the scummiest people on the team.
The event will probably involve losing hp. We want scum to lose hp. Also it will give us more play to analyze.

On November 22 2012 00:12 Hopeless1der wrote:

Woah woah woah, that sounds like setup speculation. Better stop that asap

On November 21 2012 12:47 marvellosity wrote:
TheChronicler, take a moment, sip a glass of wine, and ponder why every single person who has read your idea has thought it terrible.

It's either because you're a genius, transcended on a plane above any of us mere mortals, or your idea is bad.

On November 21 2012 12:55 iamperfection wrote:
So you guys are looking for someone that has a very distinguishable town meta as opposed to his scum meta.

Hrm let me think about this for a second??????? hrm who could it possibly me...........

Wait a tick

fucking me thats who

I nominate the perfect one as the leader because he is the best choice. Not only am i town this game i also have a very distinguishable town meta from my scum meta.

Also the perfect one is known for his generosity and his fairness

i am very active and will be able to keep up with the thread very easily so i will easily take the towns input for selecting my team

So vote iamperfection 2012

On November 21 2012 12:57 Acrofales wrote:
Fine. My town read is on TheChronicler. He's either new to the game or a longtime vet fucking with us. In the former case, a noob scum would not be proposing some shitty plan like that. In the latter, he was gauging reactions and hoping to get scum to bite. Also, not a scumplay.

It's not a very useful town read, though, because I don't want to vote for him precisely because his plan was terrible.

On November 21 2012 13:05 iamperfection wrote:
also why do we have to have the leader select all 3 wouldn't it be best for the town to put some input on the other team members?

On November 21 2012 13:01 Z-BosoN wrote:
That being said, I'm thinking we should actually vote sandroba. I've heard he is a capable player and a few people have mentioned that he is easier to pin down when scum. We then impose that he gives us every single line of thought on why he's chosen the party members (trying to choose town of course), and play on based from the result of the mission and from the assumptions I've made earlier on. If he's scum, we should be able to catch him on these grounds.

On November 21 2012 13:11 Hapahauli wrote:


Why are you pre-determining who to include in your party right now? Certainly you couldn't have THAT strong of a town read on the both of them.

On November 21 2012 13:17 Hapahauli wrote:
@ iamp

Welcome! As distinguishable as you are, that's not the only thing we're looking for in a party leader. I'd prefer someone with a very strong track-record of accurate D1 town reads. You're definitely someone that can be read early and be a party candidate though.

---

@ Kei

Err... but you said...

Do explain good sir.

On November 21 2012 13:25 Hapahauli wrote:


1) "I'm not going to vote marv unless I have a town read on him."
2) "I'm going to vote someone unless he's giving me a 'scummy vibe.'"

Those two statements mean very different things. The first expresses reservation - that you're not going to vote someone UNLESS you have a town read on them. The second expresses no hesitancy - that you're vote is determined unless marv shows you otherwise.

On November 21 2012 13:30 Hapahauli wrote:
@ GK

Ah that makes sense. I'm still don't care for such early D1 town reads, but that's just my own attitude and nothing to hold you accountable for.

@ Z-Bo


Ok ok I know I super-tunneled you that one game based on stupid wordings and such, but this one seems a lot more clear-cut no? Like those two statements do not mean the same thing at all.

On November 21 2012 14:08 Hapahauli wrote:


Oh you're totes right on GSL III - completely forgot.

Well I still don't understand the marv thing, but I don't think it makes you scummy.

And that is my cue to hit the sack - gnite!

On November 21 2012 14:27 Dienosore wrote:
Look at it this way:

I have no idea who any of you are, and none of you know me. Therefore, I can't abuse any preconceived notions or reads you have on me because they just dont exist. If I'm elected the leader, I promise to publicly consider every move before it happens. I will try to do so in such a manner that hopefully leaves no sour taste in anyones mouth.

+ Show Spoiler +
campaign poster lol

On November 21 2012 17:09 Toadesstern wrote:
This Keirathi guy is mafia.
Not because of what he's saying but because of what he's failing to provide: Reasoning as to why he'd post what he did so far.
There's simply no reason to get out here and tell people he's planning to heavily focus on reading one guy. Best case scenario is him being pointless, worst case scenario is him trying to look good by providing "something" while actually being pointless. I'd say we've got someone who's trying to get a cheap backdoor exit early on.

On November 22 2012 07:26 Clarity_nl wrote:
snb, I beg you, just read the whole thread and then join us in current discussion, rather than 12-hour-ago-discussion

On November 22 2012 01:11 kushm4sta wrote:
I actually don't care at all who is elected leader. I just said that shit before about making the scummiest leader because I wanted to contribute something unique.

On November 22 2012 02:45 CaveJohnson wrote:


New and fluffy are harder to read and likely to make mistakes. If they prove themselves to be town and competent somehow: Wonderful. However if they fail to do that they need to go down before the end game. So far I don't ever see the dinosaur changing and so he's on my needs to die list.

Before you call me an easy target again I am including myself in the needs to die before end game list since I'm smurfing.

On November 22 2012 07:57 Acrofales wrote:

Great minds think alike?

On November 22 2012 04:44 Toadesstern wrote:
Hey S&B what's your take on how Marv's acting so far?

On November 23 2012 05:26 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Marv

Who are you currently supporting? I've seen you tear down a bunch of campaigns, but you've proposed no alternative yourself.

@ Cave Johnson


Yes let's sheep a guy without thinking about his alignment because we think the other guy is scum. Nevermind making a read on the guy we're voting, let's just consolidate.

Someone needs to shoot/attack/kill/whatever this guy.

On November 21 2012 11:55 Hapahauli wrote:


Ok, but again, your point is? Do you disagree with me or something? If so, speak up. Otherwise, these random passive accusations are pointless and stupid.

On November 21 2012 13:17 Hapahauli wrote:
@ iamp

Welcome! As distinguishable as you are, that's not the only thing we're looking for in a party leader. I'd prefer someone with a very strong track-record of accurate D1 town reads. You're definitely someone that can be read early and be a party candidate though.

---

@ Kei

Err... but you said...

Do explain good sir.

On November 23 2012 06:39 marvellosity wrote:
you've talked to me plenty enough that you should be, dear ^^

On November 23 2012 06:55 Z-BosoN wrote:

Strong town read on marv? Really? If marv hadn't told be beforehand he wasn't gonna take this game seriously, I would have gone with scum read on marv. He spends a ton of time arguing with cave fellow for no reason at all, the guy is and has been a lost cause since he began posting. He's not nearly as active and as involved as his other games. He's not willing to run for party. I've reread his filter and there is nooooo way you can get a town read on marv that fast, with that kind of bad reasoning. Someone else had a town fast, with zero reasoning. Especially SNB, who's played with him a ton of times.

SnB's filter though seems pretty much like his town filter from last game, in terms of low activity and post coutn, but I haven't played with him much. Marv, do you have any meta read on him?

On November 23 2012 06:58 marvellosity wrote:
i wouldn't mind hearing from him why he thinks i'm town, though.

On November 22 2012 08:22 strongandbig wrote:



oh also I forgot to answer this

I liked his takedown of cave johnson

I also think marv is way more egotistical as scum than he is as town, it's something about the "bwahahaha fools i'll kill you all" mentality. so the fact that he's not running for king of daventry makes me think he's probably town.

Why do you ask about marv specifically? why ask me?

On November 23 2012 07:25 Keirathi wrote:

I'm not sure what to think about S&B. He's mostly been trolling again. His huge town read on marv is pretty silly, imo, which you agree with. Other than that, he hasn't really said much of substance. Mostly null.

Adam I'm a little biased towards I think. He came in with a meta-based town read on me, which while not necessarily a strong reason for me being one alignment or the other (since I'm pretty self-aware of my own meta), it seems weird for a scum Adam to pick me of all people to give that kind of town read to. I'm not exactly a stellar player, nor likely to influence much of day 1. Seems like scum Adam, knowing what vets were town, would have been better off backing them rather than me. Slightly green shaded null, I guess.

On November 23 2012 07:31 Keirathi wrote:

Maybe trolling is the wrong word. Not-caring is more appropriate, but yes.

On November 23 2012 23:29 Djodref wrote:


So you get to not be present in this game but not sandro ??
What the fuck with the double standards ?

On November 25 2012 03:10 Oatsmaster wrote:
Lets bring the spotlight on some selected players.
1. Phagga.
His reasoning is really weak for voting for Kita as opposed to voting for either Syllo/Sand. Furthermore he is not comfortable of 1 of the players in the party, Prome. Why would town phagga vote for kita when he is not comfortable with prome?
If 1 scum is in the party, the party would fail, the thread thinks.


However, other than this, his activity looks pretty town aligned to me. He shows interest in finding scum and his posts have good reasoning and logic.



2. VE.
This player is interesting because he replaced BioSC, a player who was VERY EXCITED before the game began but posted practically nothing and asked to be replaced out. VE was also really excited for the game, before he knew he was replacing in.
VE then posts a long ass posts with 2 scum reads which frankly are not very well explained. He then disappears.
I find this interesting because 2 excited players, suddenly become extremely quiet when they are in the game. Could it be related to their role? or their alignment. For now I think that we should keep an eye on VE, if he continues to be silent, I would find it very suspicious

On November 27 2012 02:16 marvellosity wrote:


I imagine s&b also picked up on my breadcrumb from earlier:

On November 26 2012 23:28 Djodref wrote:
Ok guys, just a quick comment regarding the last developments of the thread, I find that Prome is getting way too much heat for the all the role-related stuff. Arguments like "your role is imb4 for town, you must be scum" are wrong, just plain wrong.
Never trust Grey, right ?
Moreover, the events corroborate the story. So I don't see why we should doubt this at this point.

Regarding Acro, I personally think that he is taking too much heat, even if not wanting to be in the party seems suspicious at first sight. I would say it's role or ability related (his own ability or targeted by another player). And like, there are players whose behavior is not acceptable at all.

For example, let's say that Toad, VE, Adam and S&B are the mafia players left. They would have nothing do to and could just watch the town atmosphere rotten. There are too many damn lurkers and I hate this because we have nothing for or against them !

Anyway, I have decided to step up and I'm going to officially announce that I'm going to inflict some damage tonight, and it's going to be one player among iamp, S&B, VE and Adam. I have not been using this since the beginning of this game so it's gonna hurt. Be warned.

I would like anyone who is pissed off by their attitude (seriously Adam, you and your "I'm lurking and I assume" attitude, I hope that you are going to die tonight), to join me and to inflict some damage on these players. I'm on this for real and I would guess that some other players would have no problem to join me as well
Any ability you have to pressure the fucking lurkers (ie not using against the mafia), just use it against them, for the future sake of the town and also to teach them how to play.

Who is in ?

On November 27 2012 10:04 TheChronicler wrote:
I may or may not have checked anyone this cycle. I will point to the most likely culprit were I not to have used popcorn and instead used a different ability.

200 gold Popcorn

On November 27 2012 10:06 Hapahauli wrote:
I would like to run for party leader

My party will be Dienosaur, Kei, and either Chronicler or Acro
If you for whatever reason do not feel safe with Chronicler/Acro, I can add Oatsmaster in that slot.

Why you can trust me
I think the parties I proposed above are as near confirmed town as we can get in this situation. Given this player pool, you can trust me. Why? Because if we failed the mission, I would be holding a neon-sign saying "LYNCH ME." This is suicidal for me to do as scum.

On November 27 2012 10:07 TheChronicler wrote:


How is this difficult to understand? The ability costs 200g. I didn't start with infinite gold. I have not received any gold since the start of the game.

On November 27 2012 10:16 Hapahauli wrote:


Sure I would. A team of Syllo, Dieno, Kei would be basically confirmed town. If we failed the mission with me as leader, I'd be immediately outing myself as scum.

I'm only doing this because I indeed have nothing to lose since I'm town.

On November 27 2012 12:49 Hopeless1der wrote:
I think we've decided that our Party leader is going to be one of our previous party members. Oats cannot lead. That leaves:

1. Syllogism
   
2. Keirathi
   
3. Dienosore
   
4. Clarity_nl
   

This could very well be the party that runs today's event.

Only one of Dienosore and Oatsmaster can be on the party due to setup restrictions.
Oatsmaster and Syllogism have already led a party before and have items to show for it.

I believe the leaders receive an item upon a successful mission completion. Either we try to pool resources to one player (i.e. syllo today) or we divvy up the spoils among as many players as possible while maintaining a successful party. I don't like the idea of powering up one player for a number of reasons:

Scum might be able to steal items
Items may be lost upon death
The player may in fact be scum

I'd prefer syllo and oats not be in the party at all because they currently hold items, but if we can't identify a 4th for the team, I'd pick dieno over oats and have syllo step in to fill the last spot.

My choice for party leader is one of Keir, Dieno and Clarity. As I've already stated, I'd like to be included in the party. If any of them are inclined to give me the 4th spot, I'd be delighted and they will receive my vote. In the meantime, I'm fine sheeping the current votelead on Keir.
##Vote: Keirathi

Also, I hereby state that I won't put a last-minute voteswitch onto Toad today, in case anyone suspects shenanigans.

On November 28 2012 08:01 goodkarma wrote:


This case is pretty bad. The singlemindedness with which you push hopeless without any thought for how he could have town motivations for his actions is pretty suspicious...

On November 28 2012 08:29 Djodref wrote:


I'm not here I have to go to work. I was catching up with the thread after my morning shower and stuff...
I have never claimed anything. I lied about the usage an ability that I could still have (hint: I cannot shoot anybody in fact) and I've managed to force iamp and Adam to participate. I really liked both their reactions and I'm not wooried about them anymore.
It's not the case for S&B and VE. In our last game, S&B started to do some real townie stuff when he was on the verge of being lynched. My view on him right now is that he can and have to do better if he is town. But I don't have a strong scum read on him. Null for me atm.
My problem is that I don't know how to force them to participate more.

And, seriously, you can totally trust Dieno to me. This ability is for real. I didn't breadcrumb but you can see some hint in my filter for my D2 save.

On November 28 2012 08:51 goodkarma wrote:



I'll make a definitive case on you yet today. Just don't lurk too hard in the meantime.

On November 28 2012 10:03 iamperfection wrote:


And i cant believe you said something like this im gonna have to go through your entire filter when i have time

On November 28 2012 20:59 CaveJohnson wrote:


It sounds like a clone of mine

On November 21 2012 16:12 phagga wrote:
I like Sandroba's plan, his logic is sound. However, I find it dangerous to derive a town read from it, nothing is stopping scum to put up this plan to get themselfes elected.

Why is everyone asking for town reads? I understand that the mechanics are working differently, but everyone just spreading their townreads like the flu will only make it easier for scum to decide who to shoot at night. People like Keirathi and me who have no desire in being elected D1 should not be giving out any townreads, instead we can actually scum hunt in the traditional way and establish ourselfes as town this way. I even think that most candidates should not be throwing out their town reads unless they seem to be a serious candidate (meaning several people have voiced interest in voting that person).

On November 22 2012 18:55 phagga wrote:


I have not read all the posts yet, I just arrived at the point where Syllo addresses Sandro regarding unanswered questions here.

I have not named a candidate yet because I do not have a clear town read on one yet. I was leaning on Sandroba the whole time, and I also tend to think that Syllo is town. However, I only have a very rough idea on how these guys play scum, and I don't trust them enough yet. Also I don't like it at all that they are almost uncontested. As someone said earlier, mafia should have an interest at getting this spot too, and somehow I would expect some heavier resistance. Unless Sand and Syllo are both scum, of course, but Orcams Razor probably says no.

Kita was always in the back of my head because I liked his opening post. I was aware that he went MIA for a while, but I still thought that his candidature was serious. So when I realized that barely anyone talked about him, I thought I'd use Acros post to see if I could get some info on what people thought about him. Also, as I wrote earlier, I do think more competition is needed, and since Toad is out of the race, that leaves Kita as the most promising competitor to Sandro/Syllo. Regarding his proposed team: Dieno has claimed after I talked about the possibility to be 3rd party, and the way is behaving I think I could meanwhile accept him in the party, although there are other players that I would prefer. Prom is the one I feel really unsure about. I hope Kita thinks that one over. Nevertheless, for the time being, he gets my vote. ##Vote Kitaman

Goodkarmas candidature comes surprising, and I first liked his approach for the candidature. However, I voiced my suspicion of him yesterday, and his choice of Sandro for the team looks like a joke, as you can see in my questions to him.

I will be very busy today. I should be in the thread for sure in the last 2-3 hours before deadline. Hopefully I will be able to interact some more earlier.

On November 29 2012 12:01 Promethelax wrote:


It doesn't have to change your vote. I also think that voting Toad is the best play right now. Unless we can hit him for more later and can lynch confirmed scum this cycle anyways.

Does his claimed damage taken make sense to you? That is do you have more than 774 max HP?

On November 29 2012 12:13 Djodref wrote:


Oh, and if anyone is doubting my save of Dieno, I would like them to say it now or shut up forever. Can I also be considered almost confirmed town for it ? Just saying this so you can send me on a party anytime whithout too much doubts now.

On November 29 2012 15:08 Promethelax wrote:
Has anyone ever seen Zbo be so...under the radar? I guess he has exams but he also didn't say that pre-game and, along with VE, SnB and Risk his lurking is worrying me. It isn't something I expect from any of the three of them, though I guess Risk being in a mason qt makes sense for this.

You four: I'd like more from you. Like I straight up had forgotten SnB was playing this game when he posted earlier. Nothing any of these four players have done has stuck with me which is not what I would expect. They are the kind of players whom I expect more from.

Does anyone have any insight the could share?

On November 29 2012 12:43 iamperfection wrote:
also i think proms case is very strong and coupled with the fact of the mission failure and his shit lurker shoot list i think gk is scum

On November 29 2012 13:59 Promethelax wrote:
Okay, you've replied. I've explained my points. I'm going to stop helping you shit up the thread now.

Other players: I'd like your comments on GK's claim and what that does/doesn't do to exonerate him. I'd also like those of you who haven't weighed in on it yet to tell me what you think of him from my case.

On November 29 2012 22:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
Strongandbig, what were your night actions last night?

On November 30 2012 07:04 Clarity_nl wrote:
You have no reason to lie if you actually got healed. But if you are scum you have reason to lie about taking damage. And if you did not take damage you would not get notified about heals, does that make sense?

On November 30 2012 02:53 Acrofales wrote:
Seems easy enough: don't take Dieno, don't take Keirathi. Syllo, Oats, Clarity and Chronicler seems like a pretty good party. Chronicler gets to use his 1-shot ability and if one of the members gets killed, that still leaves 3 townie players who have not mentioned any low HSM shenanigans.

Syllo, you agree? Get your party PM ready, and don't you dare herpaderp it up like a certain extinct reptile.

##unvote
##Party Leader Syllo

On November 30 2012 07:27 syllogism wrote:
Because taking damage is seen towny and they didn't think they could get caught? Why does mafia ever lie?

On November 30 2012 07:28 Hapahauli wrote:
Clarity.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922&currentpage=251#5017

Read. Reply. That took me way too long to type to put up with this shit.

On December 01 2012 10:34 Acrofales wrote:
@SnB
I know we have other stuff on our mind right now, but your defense of Phagga is weird. CJ didn't claim Drazerk after the vote and when Phagga changed his mind. He claimed well before. That was NOT the reason for Phagga to change his mind.

That said, there were 2 entire cycles (3 if you count when Phagga placed his vote, rather than when he took it off to sheep onto Sandro) between Phagga having a scum read on Drazerk, and Phagga stating his HP to enable Drazerk's ability. That is 96 hours and on estimate 100 pages of thread. Seems like enough time for Phagga to have changed his mind.

On December 02 2012 00:58 syllogism wrote:
Well he claimed using an ability on you and I've an idea what it might have done

Strongandbig you might as well claim what it was

On December 02 2012 02:50 syllogism wrote:

That ability makes no sense and using it makes even less sense. Why did you think using that on Oats was a good idea?

On December 02 2012 03:46 syllogism wrote:
Where did you go S&B? What is the condition for your ability to be usable?

On December 02 2012 18:34 syllogism wrote:
No, risk recruited dieno last cycle and he isn't playing anymore. Presumably he will recruit someone new this cycle. No point discussing things in the QT instead of the thread and there isn't anything to discuss anyway.

Hapa and S&B can you two full claim? S&B feels more like a third party to me, but there seem to be so many of those already.

On December 02 2012 21:35 Acrofales wrote:
Yeah, I don't see the mafia in Djodref. I will go through his filter again, but I got town last time I checked.


I also did some filter diving on SnB. Anybody who says they have a town read based on meta... I don't see it. If I were to compare this to SSM then sure, however I looked over WLIIA and SnB's scumgame has improved a lot since then. I don't find him coming off "more carefree" now than he did there.

That said, I don't see where he is pushing a scu agenda this game. He didn't push Sandro's vote D1. He did like a lynch on Sandro early and he has never wanted to be in a party insofar as I can tell. If he is scum, he has played very carefully. However, SnB's most convincing case in WLIIA is on Mementoss, his scumbuddy. So that is not particularly conclusive either.

That leaves just the ability. I really want to know what SnB did on the missing nights: N2 and N5.

Dieno's flip also indicates that his math is correct. If we subtract 250 damage from N1 and add a 50 HP heal instead, we are left with 145+475 < 750, so he shouldn't have died N4 and need the "mysterious player" to save him from death.

On December 03 2012 00:51 syllogism wrote:
Did it ever occur to you to use it on Drazerk? Did it ever occur to you to use your role as a role check? I kind of want to believe you because I don't understand why mafia chose to shoot frog on d1 and then ignored him for 2 days for no apparent reason. It seems likely to me that they shot marvel+dienosore d1, but didn't have enough KP to inflict 665 damage on those two and that they believed some third party also targeted dienosore.

On December 03 2012 00:51 syllogism wrote:
[snip]
It seems likely to me that they shot marvel+dienosore d1, but didn't have enough KP to inflict 665 damage on those two and that they believed some third party also targeted dienosore.

On December 03 2012 00:58 Acrofales wrote:


Nights 2 and 5... NOW.

On December 03 2012 00:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
Just saying, I didnt get a heal the whole game
also syllo, you should totes claim so you can get the benefit of the 250 visible damage and the 300 invisible raise on your hp

On December 03 2012 01:00 syllogism wrote:
Oh I forgot about the theory of dienosore reflecting some action on d2, perhaps you targeted him again on n2 but it didn't work and that's why you couldn't use it on day 3. That would also explain why you targeted Oats on n3 rather than frog again. Then you got hit by Oats 100 damage and deemed it safer to target prom.

This doesn't make you mafia, but I'm just attempting to come up reasons as to why mafia chose their targets as they did.

On December 03 2012 01:01 Acrofales wrote:
Also, what made you think that "raising a player's max hp" raised their CURRENT HP? You could raise my max HP out the wazzoo, but unless I also get a heal for a wazzoo amount, it is pointless. Why would your ability be stated in such a weird manner if what it ended up doing was to raise max HP by 300 and current HP by 50?

On December 03 2012 01:08 syllogism wrote:
Okay so you haven't even asked the host about it? You just assumed?

On December 03 2012 01:21 Acrofales wrote:
Okay, there is NO way you just assume something as important as that unless you just made that shit up on the spot. SnB is a pretty careful and meticulous player. That is not the kind of thing he just overlooks.

Also, with Spekkio being scum, who knows what a Nu is. It is so far the ONLY character claimed that you actually have to fight against in the game.. except for risk.nuke and I completely mistrust risk.nuke too.

On December 03 2012 01:14 Oatsmaster wrote:

Wtf is this?
You dont think its a town ability already?

On December 03 2012 06:28 austinmcc wrote:
SnB
Leaning scum. Mainly based on the roleclaim, because ... that's the thing I most have to work with. Forget the rolenaming. Forget his other stupid ability that he claimed. He says:

(1) SnB says he never asked Grey how this works. Other people seem to be expressing concern that he equated +max HP with "heal" without checking with Grey. Yes, that's questionable.

But beyond that...SnB isn't an idiot. If that were actually SnB's ability, he would absolutely have to check with Grey, because...it frigging does 250 damage. The way it's phrased, you can't tell how the parts resolve. Does it do 250 damage to someone, and then, if they're alive, heal them/raise hp? EVEN IF SnB thought +max hp = heal, he has to ask whether he can accidentally kill someone before raising their hp. That's...crazy important. I can believe that he interpreted +max HP to be heal, but I can't believe he wouldn't ask whether both happen at once or whether he basically CPR docs someone if they're under 250 hp.


(2) The wording. Grey likes flavor. Grey likes...complex roles that punish gaming the setup (roleclaims, ability claims, whatever). But Grey doesn't create stupid roles.

The text of that ability just makes no sense, see (1). If it heals, it should just say "Raise targets max hp 300, heal them for 50." Ta da. It's simple. You can't misinterpret it. Your doc can't kill someone now. Gut feeling, I don't think Grey would create a role that mixed damage/possible heal for no good reason. It's much more likely that SnB has a similar ability, now has to try and find a logical fakeclaim, and so the wording comes out really garbled.

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Out of his filter...I don't get too much. But he's only been vocal about a couple topics. His posts are generally pretty small, but perk up on three/four topics.

The party election D1
Hapahauli
(Maybe toad)
Phagga

There's one big toad post where he votes toad, although from the looks of it toad was caught by a check. So...scumSnB would have had to do that. But he perks up towards the end of the vote D1, and we know that at least one candidate, Sandroba, was scum. So on two of the topics he's been...more wordy about, scum has been involved.

I dunno about ALL of SnB's longer posts being about scum, but I could see Hapa or Phagga being scum just based on the way SnB has posted less when scum wasn't concerned. Maybe one a mislynch candidate, one a scumbuddy? I'll give them a look.

On December 03 2012 06:35 Clarity_nl wrote:


Yeah, in cycle 6 you asked, after prompting by others.

On December 03 2012 07:31 Acrofales wrote:

SnB is scum for claiming an ability that has no town purpose at all.

On December 03 2012 07:53 kitaman27 wrote:
strongandbig...are you willing to use your role tonight on phagga to confirm he is not golem?

On December 03 2012 07:54 kitaman27 wrote:


What were you planning before?

On December 03 2012 16:59 Promethelax wrote:


good point.

SnB, anything else you wanna claim about your ability? Besides the fact that you attacked me with it like an idiot. Let me be clear, without any other aspect of your claim to explain what is happening to your targets I will vote you.

On November 29 2012 22:12 strongandbig wrote:
I decided to put this in a separate post, it's my take on the goodkarma case that promethelax put out. I think goodkarma definitely is the right person to be scrutinizing right now given how the party turned out. Since acro and keir were in the party, its failure doesn't automatically make goodkarma scum; but it should put him right under the microscope.



this is a pretty good summary, the case is good even without taking the mission failure into account.

I don't like GK's response to a few points in the case. I'm not going to quote the whole back-and-forth here, because I really don't have time to dig through the quote nesting. I'll just post what I don't like about the response:

1. I think he's ignoring the part where he told people not to setup speculate, and then later ignored his own advice. It's not that setup speculation is inherently scummy in a closed setup like this, but giving global advice at the start of the game is an easy way to make yourself look townie and scum like to do it; but if a townie gives this kind of advice it's because they really believe it, whereas scum don't and are therefore much more likely to ignore their own advice later when the thread sentiment moves in that direction.
   
2. GK claims there is a town motivation for asking in the thread whether party members are kill immune. I agree that there is a motivation for asking what happens if a party member is killed but asking whether the party members can be killed is information that only helps scum imo.
   
3. I also don't like how gk is insisting that "not shooting toad" would've been a better move for town. toad could easily be lying about being bulletproof, occam's razor says he most likely is, and if we'd been able to take toad down with vigshots we could've used today's lynch to much better effect.
   

On the other hand, I don't think the phagga association thing is a big deal even if GK is scum, I could see a scum easily doing that with a townie (since they know their read will be right).




This is an interesting point. I'm inclined to believe that GK did actually shoot drazerk, it seems unlikely that scum would claim this and then just shout "what now counterclaim me bro". (or if GK is scum, it could've been anyone on the scum team.)

From the early damage reports, it seems possible that the scum team was spreading their kp around pretty liberally, and given drazerk's claimed abilities it's possible they put some of it on him if they thought he was sk. Alternatively, it's possible that GK has a vig-ish role and chose town targets that looked scummy to set up a fakeclaim, that wouldn't be surprising.

So I really don't see how this claim clears GK. At first I was going to say "it probably means that GK and drazerk aren't scum buddies because then they wouldn't know where that damage came from and they would have to risk a counterclaim," but then I realized that if they are scum buddies it's entirely possible and likely that drazerk just lied about taking that damage. So I don't see how this claim clears anybody.

At the moment I have been decently convinced that GK is scum, but I'm going to vote toad because he's claimed scum in the thread and we should kill the scum right in front of us.

On December 04 2012 04:14 Keirathi wrote:

How many bus drivers do you think scum has?

And if it was a town role, why did they use it on phagga, whom s&b said he was going to target at syllo's (?) request? And if it was a townie, why haven't they claimed it?

On December 04 2012 03:28 Clarity_nl wrote:


You see, it's not just that your ability doesn't seem townlike, it's the way you've handled the use of your ability AND the fact that you "didn't care that much" about confirming your assumptions when it came to your abilities. Even ignoring all of that you have been practically useless all game, didn't bother telling us you were going to be away for a couple of days until you were LITERALLY AT THE AIRPORT and a lackluster defense of any accusation thrown at you.

On December 04 2012 04:21 iamperfection wrote:
s&b i think you should do one of those list posts with your thoughts on all the players in the game.

On December 05 2012 06:52 Promethelax wrote:
I like Draz. When he decides to participate he often has great ideas. Gems in the rough.

However, Draz, you aren't actually giving me anything to work with. I still want to know who you think is scum.

On December 05 2012 06:55 CaveJohnson wrote:
Just stop posting SnB you attacking me is null either way so it won't work.