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On November 21 2012 18:32 Dienosore wrote:
Clarity, is there a reason you are so intent on shutting me down after every post I make?
Scared I might find something?
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No, I actually tried helping you be useful to town, but you brush it off with a joke or with my mindless dribble.
I ask you for your town motivations behind looking like a clown and discrediting yourself, and you ignore the question.
I ask you for scum motivations behind your reads and you tell me "don't worry, I can read people!"
How is anyone supposed to take you seriously? If you are town you are off to a terrible start. If you truly can detect scum by word choice like you claim, then prove it. Make a case and show us a pattern and compare it to a game where they are town that does not have that pattern, and THEN explain why it is scummy.
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I've been trying but I didn't join this game to coach anyone, and he's not willing to accept help, although I have been quite hostile I suppose.
Okay, I will back off. Dieno I beg you to look at your own play up until now, and please realize how you look and how you're discrediting yourself. If you are town you want people to take you seriously, and you're going about it the wrong ways.
When calling someone scum please don't just explain what they are doing, but also why the motivation might be scummy.
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I don't find it funny at all. You don't want people to take you seriously in a game full of established vets?
Feelings from your gut equate to 80% scum? There's a reason I'm the only one responding to you at this point, everyone else is smartly ignoring you.
Day 1 is not useless like you claim it to be, and that mindset is a detriment to town.
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On November 21 2012 17:03 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 16:54 phagga wrote:On November 21 2012 16:35 goodkarma wrote:On November 21 2012 16:12 phagga wrote:
I like Sandroba's plan, his logic is sound. However, I find it dangerous to derive a town read from it, nothing is stopping scum to put up this plan to get themselfes elected.
Why is everyone asking for town reads? I understand that the mechanics are working differently, but everyone just spreading their townreads like the flu will only make it easier for scum to decide who to shoot at night. People like Keirathi and me who have no desire in being elected D1 should not be giving out any townreads, instead we can actually scum hunt in the traditional way and establish ourselfes as town this way. I even think that most candidates should not be throwing out their town reads unless they seem to be a serious candidate (meaning several people have voiced interest in voting that person). The reason we're not doing traditional scumhunting is because we don't have the power to lynch scum. Our time is best used determining who is most likely town, as we're (hopefully) voting for townies as party leader. I've touched on this a few times. Hopefully this is the last time clarification is needed. This game isn't about scumhunting. Rather, it revolves around townhunting. Ok, looks like I need to clarify myself. Townhunting is stupid. Do you know why? Because scum can fake it to no end, since they know who is not scum. Talking about who is townie makes it much easier for scum to blend in, which then makes it much harder for town to choose the right people for their teams. Yes, there may be multiple factions in this game. Still, if we force scum to scumhunt they are more likely to trip as if they can just give their townreads out. So, no, I disagree that this game revolves around townhunting. We find out who is townie by scumhunting, not by townhunting. The issue with forcing people to scumhunt is we have no real way of checking if they're right other than sending the scummy people on a mission and watching it fail, which is not optimal. Apparently, this game is going to play much like the Resistance games - find townies. Eventually, the scum will be forced to disagree with the selected team if it contains no scum, which is where they'll have to display scummy logic to back up their disagreement and that's where we catch them.
Just because we cannot confirm it with a lynch does not mean we should not be scumhunting. I imagine there are some blue roles akin to vigilantes, and although we should not direct them, scumhunting will help.
Whoever said it earlier is right, if we do nothing but townhunt it will be real easy for scum to hide among town, because townhunting is easy as scum. Scumhunting as scum, that's where the problems begin to show for them.
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On November 21 2012 19:21 Dienosore wrote:
I never said day 1 was useless... just that it's nearly impossible to have a perfect read on anyone at this point. And no, I don't expect anyone to actually listen to what I'm saying, especially when there are so many other solid players in the game with us. Maybe once I establish some credibility, sure, but until then I'd imagine I'm going to be generally ignored.
Yes, but no one is asking you to make perfect reads. But when you claim you have a "80% scumread and 70% scumread", or when you keep posting that poster that takes up half my screen, is that you trying to be taken seriously?
You say you want to be elected party leader and your reasoning is "I'm trustworthy and nice"
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I don't know why a town Dieno would want to act as a red herring, but that's basically what you are now....
Guess I'm moving on.
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On November 21 2012 21:12 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 21:02 Djodref wrote:On November 21 2012 20:52 Acrofales wrote:On November 21 2012 16:55 Djodref wrote:I would like you to vote for me !I don't know if I'm going to get the answers from my latest questions to the hosts but I know believe that the best way for the party leader to chose his party members is to do it in complete secrecy. The next day, I would reveal the members if the event resolves in a failure and I would not reveal them if the event resolves in a success. I'm going to base my election campaign on this plan. In a battle of information, you should give the least possible clues to your enemy. Of course, it would mean that you have to totally trust me on this one. Trust me on the fact that I'm town and trust me on my reads ! I'm ok if people would rather townhunt than scumhunt but I think I'll spend the rest of my day scum hunting rather than town hunting and of course promoting my own election ! I'm totally open to discuss the validity of my plan and if anyone has some ideas to contribute to it  ##Vote: Djodref
Djodref for party leader ! Trust me, I'm town and I have good intuition. I'll take my responsibilities in case of failure, I'll keep the info outside of mafia reach in case of success ! I'll give you everything in due time and I'm promoting traditional scum hunting for day ! What if you get shot? What if the party succeeds and you get shot before you tell us who was on it? Party leader and formation (and the team's subsequent success or failure) seems to be our ONLY source of town-controlled information this game. If you die before you can give this info to town, we lose that information. Seems like a heavy price to pay and a giant target on your head. Also, I somewhat expect the game will reveal the party members. Without that, the mechanics would give us very very little modconfirmed information, which seems unbalanced (although if there is enough KP flying around we probably have flips, etc). Well, obviously, being the only visible target, I'm counting on a doc or a protective role to keep me alive for the night. I'm not sure if the party is going to be revealed or not the day after but I don't see any way for us to be sure if the party leader is going to respect his word concerning his choice for the party members. I would like to get some answers from the hosts before speculating too much on his though. Party revealed or not, there is no way any of us can know that the person we are picking is going to stick to their word and select the team they indicate. The best you can do is put your vote on someone whom you find most likely to do as they say, and who will be transparent about why they are taking the people they are taking.
The easiest way to get yourself (mis)lynched (or shot by a blue or whatever this games equivalent will be) is to say one thing as party leader and do the other.
The question becomes if it's worth it for scum to sacrifice a mafia member to make town fail a mission, and this all depends on the length of the game, which we know nothing about.
I think for now it's safe to assume that it is not, until we get information that says otherwise.
I think there's no reason for a candidate to withhold who they will choose for their party though, Djo.
As pointed out this is the only information that town has reasonable control over. Transparency is key for any candidate, and lack thereof should be viewed as inherently scummy or misguided.
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On November 21 2012 21:32 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 21:23 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 21 2012 21:12 Adam4167 wrote:On November 21 2012 21:02 Djodref wrote:On November 21 2012 20:52 Acrofales wrote:On November 21 2012 16:55 Djodref wrote:I would like you to vote for me !I don't know if I'm going to get the answers from my latest questions to the hosts but I know believe that the best way for the party leader to chose his party members is to do it in complete secrecy. The next day, I would reveal the members if the event resolves in a failure and I would not reveal them if the event resolves in a success. I'm going to base my election campaign on this plan. In a battle of information, you should give the least possible clues to your enemy. Of course, it would mean that you have to totally trust me on this one. Trust me on the fact that I'm town and trust me on my reads ! I'm ok if people would rather townhunt than scumhunt but I think I'll spend the rest of my day scum hunting rather than town hunting and of course promoting my own election ! I'm totally open to discuss the validity of my plan and if anyone has some ideas to contribute to it ##Vote: Djodref
Djodref for party leader ! Trust me, I'm town and I have good intuition. I'll take my responsibilities in case of failure, I'll keep the info outside of mafia reach in case of success ! I'll give you everything in due time and I'm promoting traditional scum hunting for day ! What if you get shot? What if the party succeeds and you get shot before you tell us who was on it? Party leader and formation (and the team's subsequent success or failure) seems to be our ONLY source of town-controlled information this game. If you die before you can give this info to town, we lose that information. Seems like a heavy price to pay and a giant target on your head. Also, I somewhat expect the game will reveal the party members. Without that, the mechanics would give us very very little modconfirmed information, which seems unbalanced (although if there is enough KP flying around we probably have flips, etc). Well, obviously, being the only visible target, I'm counting on a doc or a protective role to keep me alive for the night. I'm not sure if the party is going to be revealed or not the day after but I don't see any way for us to be sure if the party leader is going to respect his word concerning his choice for the party members. I would like to get some answers from the hosts before speculating too much on his though. Party revealed or not, there is no way any of us can know that the person we are picking is going to stick to their word and select the team they indicate. The best you can do is put your vote on someone whom you find most likely to do as they say, and who will be transparent about why they are taking the people they are taking. The easiest way to get yourself (mis)lynched (or shot by a blue or whatever this games equivalent will be) is to say one thing as party leader and do the other. The question becomes if it's worth it for scum to sacrifice a mafia member to make town fail a mission, and this all depends on the length of the game, which we know nothing about. I think for now it's safe to assume that it is not, until we get information that says otherwise. I think there's no reason for a candidate to withhold who they will choose for their party though, Djo. As pointed out this is the only information that town has reasonable control over. Transparency is key for any candidate, and lack thereof should be viewed as inherently scummy or misguided. @ ClarityI don't think that town has really control of the formation of the party members. The only thing that we control is who is going to be our party leader. I could be elected, stating that my party members are going to be players X,Y and Z, but then send a PM to the hosts during the night action resolution that I'm going to constitute a party of A,B and C. I'm not sure if we can control or at least check this or not. Maybe the following day, maybe not. A mafia player would certainly lie about who is really going to constitute his party but not a town member. If I get elected, I'm going to retain the information of the party members for at least one day, to be sure to keep the mafia in the dark.
I've been under the assumption that once the mission happens the day/night post will say who the party consisted of and what the result was, do you think that is not the case?
Because if it is the case then it would be a death sentence to lie to everyone and do something you didn't say you would.
That leads me back to the "Is it worth it for a scum to sacrifice himself in order to make town fail a mission". The answer to that, for me so far, is no.
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I surely will oats. What is the reason of you notifying me, though?
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Thank you Mementoss.
Ok so Djo, do you still believe your plan is the best for a party leader to employ?
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Why did you work under the assumption that party members chosen would not be disclosed. Seems rather counter-intuitive to me.
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I smell funny? What does that mean?
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I understand wanting to make sure, who wouldn't, but before the mod shared that info you were working under the assumption that party members chosen would not be disclosed, right?
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Oats, how is anyone supposed to take your case seriously when the very first quote, that you claim is me sheeping hapa, was actually me pointing out chronicle's plan is bad. Are you saying I should have an immediate read on him because he suggested a bad plan?
On November 21 2012 22:54 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 11:03 Clarity_nl wrote:
I'm reading up on resistance mafia, as it was said the setups might be simillar in some ways and I'm not familiar with it.
Just got lynched in my other game so can focus on this starting tomorrow.
I nominate myself as our heroic leader because almost everyone here doesn't know me. That way you won't be fooled by people playing wifom games with their meta! this is probably a joke/troll post but if he's serious this is some terrible logic
It was a joke/low blow at someone who posted something similar, saying that because we don't know him there's no meta and that's a good reason.
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ebwop If asking someone two questions is considered tunneling then I need to reconsider the way I play this game.
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On November 21 2012 23:01 Oatsmaster wrote:
The comments are above the quotes :D
Yes, but you accuse me of sheeping hapa when I end the conversation with "quantity of information is not quality of information" Which is what I basically said just before.
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Oats, why do you assume people have a town read on me at all, let alone for activity?
Why did you announce to me that you were making a case, instead of just making it?
Do you actually believe I've tunneled Djo?
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Because scum and town think inherently different. To find the differences in thought and perspective you need those people to speak about their thought process. What better way than to ask them about their thought process?
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I asked the question to djo after the host answered because Djo asked me to hold off until we had more info from the host.
Do you believe that posting one liners is scummy? Did my reaction strengthen or weaken your read on me?
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EPT
