Newbie Mini Mafia XXXI

On November 27 2012 05:51 Munk-E wrote:
Right now, I feel Yamato is our best bet.




He seems to be against me, CC and kickstarter. I understand his reasoning behind being suspicious of me (despite my opinion of being suspicious of lurkers), however he never made an argument against CC, despite promising to.



In fact, the only one I see who has made a real case against CC is SDM, and that case was based off of how he played in previous games. I feel basing a scum read on how he played before is really dumb, because he could easily change his style, and in that post he also said that he probably intentionally did that. This just creates a massive WIFOM situation, and thus to me, invalidates the point.

This post was also posted in the middle of a minor Kickstarter bandwagon. And while he did make a small case against kickstarter, it was nothing really substantial, and somewhat contradictive.



(Also as a side note, I saw that play as scummy, as I explained before.)
This may be to distance himself from oats, who I feel still isn't in the clear, but his entire case on kickstarter was because he went after oats so aggressively, therefore, going and saying he might be scum is contradictory to his entire case.

What I noticed most about his only posts that were more than a few lines were hardcore about defending his image. (above and below)







Yes Yamato, yes you do

Now I shouldn't need to tell you why I'm suspicious of someone who's only real content is making cases for why he's innocent.


He also voted for me after both helo and SDM, but i'll let it slide because I was at the top of suscpicion list.

Nonetheless, he seems most concerned about defending himself, and explaining his actions, and that certainly seems more scummy than anyone else so far to me, and while I wish I had longer to decide, he certainly looks the worst to me, so therefore ##Vote: yamato77


(p.s. before anyone says it, I didn't just make this post because he was voting for me, I understand that's just pressure.)

On November 27 2012 11:26 Munk-E wrote:
Alright,i hate having to defend myself, but i guess it's necessary so you don't waste a vote. No one has made a real case against me. The only real argument against me that everyone claims is that I'm lurking, and that i voted to save myself. As for the lurking, the point of accusing lurkers is to get them to talk. In theory, the more they say the easier they are to read, of they're mafia, they might say too much and give a tell. This point is null though, because it brings suspicion to lurkers. Besides, you got what you want from me, I'm talking more. As for the voting solely to save myself, it's not true. Yamato still is the scummiest player here, doing minimal scum hunting and over reacting every time someone accuses him of something. Someone accused me of being sheepish, because i said i wasn't 100% sure. I guess that was a wrong thing to say, even though that's how the game works. You never are positive about a role unless you are detective, which wouldn't work because it's day one, or mafia. You just go with your best guess.




The point is there isn't a case against me, just a band wagon. Honestly, there are so many of you that voted for me with no or minimal justification, especially those who only recently jumped on the bandwagon.

On November 28 2012 07:35 Kickstart wrote:
Right so as promised I did some digging into the Munk-E lynch because I felt there would be something there that would help us get some reads on people. After looking at it I have come to the conclusion that

Yamato77 is SCUM

Now before I get into making my own case I want to show what Munk-E had to say during Day 1 and particularly near lynch time, because at this point in time the only person who we know for 100% is town is Munk-E., so we automatically know that his posts were genuine and had town motivation. Now I will grant that just because Munk-E was town does not necessarily make his reads correct, but I think the fact that he is the only confirmed town at this point gives his reads some extra weight that we cannot yet give to anyone else.

Munk-E's strongest read was on Yamato, here are his posts:

+ Show Spoiler +
and
+ Show Spoiler +

Now to sum up Munk-E's points against Yamato (but you should still read the posts I quoted because I think Munk-E actually did a good job in making his case, and again knowing that Munk-E was town makes his rather well thought out case against Yamato even more compelling) he accuses Yamato of content less posting, not making any scum reads himself while getting on others for doing the same thing, and of only defending himself. All of these charges are true and they hold up all through Yamato's filter. Now I cant copy and paste his entire filter but I encourage you to go look at it and you will see that Yamato has the largest filter of anyone in the game (about 5 pages), but it entirely composed of, one liners, summation posts (just a summary of events thus far), defense of himself, and bad/easy cases (his only real cases have been against cheese, both times they are bad and use points that have already been made by someone else). Now that is a huge pattern of posting - he has had more posts than anyone else and with the longest filter he has managed to offer nearly nothing in the way of looking for scum.

Now all this so far is bad for Yamato and on its own would make a good case against him and is good enough reason to vote for him because it is all very scummy. But looking at the Munk-E lynch I found something even more damning. I looked at the progression of votes that went onto Munk-E and tried to see which ones were suspicious. The first vote on Munk-E is from HeloKnight and the second is from SDM. Now Helo is the first to make a move on Munk-E and does it because Munk-E is lurking and the only post Munk-E did make was a sheep onto Oats - both valid points at the time. Now SDMs vote onto Munk-E is for lurking aswell, but at least SDM is hesitant with the vote, but still gives solid reasons for it other than the ones Helo gave and doesn't seem to be jumping onto a Munk-E wagon. Then Yamato throws his vote on Munk-E with this post:



This is suspicious for a few reasons. First he tries to hedge himself by saying that this isn't his final choice, he is just making it and will change it because he doesn't like lynching lurkers. Well the vote never changes - Yamato says he doesn't like lynching lurkers (which is his only charge against Munk-E in this post) but in the same post says Munk-E is the best candidate (when his only beef is his lurking) and again he just leaves the vote on the lurker. This is someone trying to jump on a wagon without drawing attention to themselves if I've ever seen it. He says "oh this really isn't a great vote and I will change it" but makes the vote anyways and never changes it. It is even worse given that he says he has two other scumreads, because if his only problem with Munk-E was his lurking then why would he jump onto that easy wagon instead of trying to push his actual reads?

Here is another post from Yamato when he was under a bit of pressure:



Again we have the typical accusing others of tunneling and sheeping and all that while not providing much himself, but the interesting thing here is the last paragraph because it just reaffirms what I have been saying. Yamato only brings up two points against Munk-E here, one is that he is lurking and the other is that Munk-E's two posts are content-less cheeping onto players. Well the first is just his excuse for leaving his vote on Munk-E, everyone was already saying Munk-E was lurking so this is just a safe statement - nothing new here. But the second statement is a blatant lie. Look at Munk-E's post on Yamato that I spoilered above and ask yourself if that is a content-less sheeping post. I don't think it is, it is a well reasoned post and all his criticisms of Yamato are valid even up until now, and we know now that Munk-E was town and this leads me to believe that he was being genuine - this was not a sheep.

So there is my case on Yamato. I do need to go to class now but I wanted to post this case before night actions because I won't be back until afterwards and wanted to contribute incase I get NKd. So right now Yamato has been promoted to my top scum read followed by Oats.

On December 02 2012 12:00 Oatsmaster wrote:
EBWOP:
First tag mess-up


oh wait why cant Jacob or me be scum?
BECAUSE YOU ALREADY KNOW WHO IS TOWN.

On December 02 2012 10:36 HeloKnight wrote:
Why Cheesecake is Scum:

First of all, Cheesecake made a post that "proves me" scum. I am in the same situation as him right now, because scum has to be two of Kickstart, yamato and Cheesecake. Since a Kickstart/yamato team is not likely, Cheesecake is 100% scum to me already. This post is to demonstrate to you all how Cheesecake is scum.

The Aqua Switch: At first, this didn't seem like something scum Cheesecake would do, but the reason for it is that he didn't think Aqua would actually get lynched. He thought he could get free town cred by going after Aqua d2, getting blue Oats lynched anyway, and then going after Aqua easy d3. Let's look at his reasons for voting Oats and then for starting the Aqua wagon:


So first he points out all of the problems with Oats' claim: super scummy play the whole game, no breadcrumb, attracting tons of suspicion, etc. But then he starts the Aqua wagon while all of those points still stand. All of his reasons for the Aqua wagon revolve around the real Doctor counter-claiming. But we specifically told the Doctor not to claim. SDM even made a long post about why the Doctor shouldn't claim that Cheesecake apparently didn't read:
+ Show Spoiler +
Of course the real Doctor wouldn't have counterclaimed, so there was NO reason to trust Oats' claim. Cheesecakes reasons for lynching Oats were still valid, but he starts the wagon on Aqua anyway. Scum reasons for this: get town cred, set up an easy Aqua mislynch tomorrow. Town reasons: ???. He is even insisting that it was a good idea now, when it clearly wasn't. He's constantly saying that he saved us from a blue mislynch, even though he had no reason to think that Oats was actually blue. He says that a Doctor would have claimed, but the Doctor was told not to claim. He is trying hard to look townie for starting the wagon when he never actually wanted Aqua lynched at all.
Also look at this super scummy quote he posted after Aqua flipped:



Attacking Me and The Munk-E Lynch: Cheesecake has been attacking me for a last minute vote switch.

He says it's "damning" to justify my vote by saying I had little time, when he did the exact same thing to justify his switch onto Munk-E. He also misrepresents the amount of time I had to decide, which I have already explained.

Also note that he says that "we can blame the mislynch on him". The only possible purpose of this is to seem more townie by being "honest" and "taking responsibility". However, when it stops working in his favor, he of course redacts that statement:

In addition, he says that the Munk-E lynch was completely my fault, not his. This contradicts his previous statement about taking responsibility for the mislynch and throws suspicion on me for my lurker vote, even though he said in his first post that he was fine with lynching a lurker:

As I've said before, no viable scum read presented itself to me d1. So why would a town Cheesecake attack me for doing exactly what he said was good to do in his opening post?

In Conclusion: Cheesecake is scum because he:
- starts the Aqua wagon while having no reason to trust Oats' claim
- touts how townie he is for starting the Aqua wagon
- ignores the fact that the Doctor was being told not to counterclaim
- attacks me for a last-minute vote switch after last-minute switching to Munk-E
- takes responsibility for the Munk-E lynch for no reason, and then says it was my fault
- blames me for the Munk-E lynch, even though I did exactly what he said we should do in his first post

##Vote: Mr. Cheesecake