Newbie Mini Mafia XXXI - Page 2

On November 26 2012 03:19 HeloKnight wrote:


The mafia has to implicate townies as scum and, using good logic, they can only convict other scum. So doesn't scum have to use terrible logic? Otherwise they with only catch their partners.

On November 26 2012 03:40 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:


In what way did it help your scum mentality?

On November 26 2012 04:59 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
The reason I'm asking all these questions and why Mr. Cheesecake's play makes me feel uneasy

Part 1

In XXIX: CC was scum and all uptight, just like he said in one of his responses itt. After the game, his scum buddies said he was a funny guy cracking a lot of jokes in the scum QT. It's quite obvious CC wasn't being himself in the actual XXIX game thread, the real CC isn't uptight.

In XXX: CC was town and the complete opposite of uptight. It was obvious he was being his real self, ie what he had shown in the scum QT in XXIX. This complete change of meta was why I gave him a 100% town read in the obs QT. BUT this play style got him lynch. Cracking jokes and being a goof got him into a shitty situation which lead him to a weird VT claim and later a mislynch.

What would one expect town CC to take away from this? He needs to lay off his goofy style or he risks getting mislynched. What would one expect scum CC to take away from this? He needs to be more of a goof, otherwise the difference in meta will give him away.
[b]

If you compare this game to his town play in XXX, he's more serious business now. That would lead me to believe either a) he's town and has realized his style in XXIX didn't work and he needs to play a bit more "serious" or b) the reason he's playing closer to his scum meta is because he's scum.

Now I agree with what Oats said, CCs initial posts in this thread come off as "forced casual". That is, b) is quite possible: He's scum, has realized he needs to emulate his town play style, but doesn't really succeed. Besides, by asking these questions, I really gave him the chance to give me the a) explanation, but he didn't. He even says it hasn't affected his town play at all, which I find weird considering how he crashed and burned in XXX. He says, however, that it has affected his scum mentality. The reason he knows may be because he's playing scum right now.

My "goofy style" didn't get me lynched. I got myself lynched by trolling and claiming VT for no reason at all. XXX I barely consider a game, and it was my first as town. I didn't learn anything from that game other than what I told you.

This meta argument is funny, because it can go either way. If I played like I did in XXIX, I would be shamed for going back to my scum meta. I'm not excessively trolling like in XXX because I actually have a clear head for this game. I'm just going to be myself.

I didn't learn much in XXX because I pretty much killed myself to reveal scum. The only thing I learned in XXIX was how to play scum, so of course that game only effected my scum play.

Part 2

When you play as scum, you really don't want to butt heads with the stronger players. When I was scum in XXVIII I soon came to realize it would be in my best interest to agree with DarthPunk and Z-Boson because they pursued their scum reads aggressively. Now maybe I'm full of myself, but having played 3 games I would like to believe I'm one of the DPs and ZBs of this game, a player you want to get along with if you're scum. That's why this post by CC makes uneasy:



It is basically a carbon copy of my previous opinions/questions:





Being second on the ball to one of the stronger/more experienced players in this game is scummy. CC also kind of sided with me on the Oats issue, although his read is more on the null side. So yeah, I'm accusing him of cock-riding.

Honestly, when I woke up I glanced through the thread and right there at the end was Oat's vote post so I addressed it before looking at anything else. The previous night, I noticed that yamato in particular was just doing wierd one - liners that didn't do anything, but I wanted to see if he would post more while I was asleep. There wasn't much else to discuss anyway. Sure, I'll give you that I'm "second on the ball".

FOS Cheesecake

Cheesecake is my best scum read right now, but at least he's around and actually contributing. I'm absolutely capable of switching to one of you lurkers out there if I find a decent reason. There's also plenty of time of Cheesecake to convince me he's not scum, so go for it.

On November 26 2012 00:56 HeloKnight wrote:
Oats:




These posts are confusing. You say several times that you can't write a case from his posts thus far, in response to those asking you to explain yourself, but then you write a mini-case in the very same post. Why didn't you just write this case when people asked for it, instead of repeatedly saying that you can't write a case?



You say that "trying to look casual" is a scum trait, but your first few posts are looking pretty casual:


This post looks pretty "forced casual" too, but I don't know if smilies are the norm for Oats.


Why is "trying to be casual" a scum trait when you are clearly trying to be casual yourself?

On November 26 2012 03:19 HeloKnight wrote:


The mafia has to implicate townies as scum and, using good logic, they can only convict other scum. So doesn't scum have to use terrible logic? Otherwise they with only catch their partners.

On November 26 2012 06:18 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
Missed this...



@CC

I thought you claimed VT because you had a decent amount of votes and/or suspicion against you. Was your claim entirely to exploit the lack of "regular fapper" info in OP?

On November 26 2012 05:34 yamato77 wrote:
Mr. Cheesecake is playing without contributing. He's written a lot, but most of it is absolutely useless to a town looking for scum. His policy discussion and talk about other mafia games he's played doesn't help hunt for other players, it seems like more of a defense for himself. Then he calls out two players, myself and Helo, trying to draw attention away from himself. None of this reads town to me, at all.

On November 26 2012 06:47 HeloKnight wrote:


I wrote up this comment on Oats because that was the only real interesting person at that time. While you had already brought up some of the stuff on his case and "forced casual", some of it was still new. No one had pointed out the apparent contradiction between Oats saying that he can't make a case and then making a case, and no one had pointed out that Oats' posts can be interpreted as "forced casual".



Part of the reason I asked that question is because everyone was getting on me to contribute more, but I wasn't finding a lot to comment on. So I asked this question because it seemed like SDM was reaching an absurd conclusion: that only townies will use terrible logic. You say that scum will be easily called out on using terrible logic, but then people like SDM will point out that scum will never use terrible logic, and the scum who used the bad logic is in the clear and looking more townie.

On November 26 2012 05:34 yamato77 wrote:
Mr. Cheesecake is playing without contributing. He's written a lot, but most of it is absolutely useless to a town looking for scum. His policy discussion and talk about other mafia games he's played doesn't help hunt for other players, it seems like more of a defense for himself. Then he calls out two players, myself and Helo, trying to draw attention away from himself. None of this reads town to me, at all.

On November 26 2012 23:10 yamato77 wrote:
It seems like most people that have posted opinions about me that are negative have done so while quoting or referencing the earliest part of my posts, so I guess I'll explain my thought process behind them. Early on, it became apparent to me, as I believe it did to Oats, that literally everyone was either not online at all or not posting intentionally. Most of my posts were in response to other people. If you'll notice, one of them was in response to CC asking me what I thought of him. I said



Perhaps I should have explained then, but I meant that I didn't like the way he entered the thread. His little questionnaire was really, really pointless. It seemed to me at the time something that a mafia player might do to appear to be "starting discussion" without putting anything of real value in the thread.

Thus, I limited my posting intentionally as to not really do anything except react to other people and try to get them to give information. Aqua was willing; I asked him his thoughts on me and Cheesecake and he gave them, without any questions. It was then that Cheesecake asked me my opinion of him, and I gave the aforementioned answer. Then he asked me what I thought the discussion should be about, and I told him, I thought us (Aqua and I) talking about whether he was acting suspicious was fine. I called out Oats for calling him scum, which I was not ready to do without more solid evidence, and have not done so yet.

My next post received a lot of heat. I posted my ill-timed opinion of Mr. Cheesecake. I was being honest. 1)Nothing looked like worthwhile contribution up to that point, to me. It still doesn't. He says he has contributed, but I don't see anything except a poor read on Helos he backed away from, continually attacking me for voicing my opinion of him, and defending himself. He has posted no other reads on anyone else. 2)I keep saying these same things and they are still true.

I want to know what people think of me because I don't want to be surprised by more votes on me like I was with SDM's. 3)I didn't like his voting of me because I didn't think people would honestly give a scum read on me based on my posting up to that point. I suppose I was wrong, which is why I've since become much more forthcoming with my thoughts and motivations.

As far as reads on other people. Kickstarter's sheer aggression when defending Cheesecake against Oats is astounding. He uses vulgar language more than once and seems wholly preoccupied with Oats' vote being on CC. He doesn't even care if other people think Oats is scum necessarily, so why did he vote for him? 4)The play doesn't really make sense because all he did was cause a whole lot of uproar over a play that no one else saw as scummy. If anything, THAT seems like a scum play.

That being said, Oats is definitely not a town read. None of his posting is particularly forthcoming about his actual motivation. His vote on CC, while initially seeming like a pressure vote, hasn't been justified properly.

SDM and Aqua are probably town. They have posted the most real content up to this point and their arguments have been clearly motivated.

Helo is a less troll version of Oats. None of his play is backed with clear motivation, but it is not inherently scummy either.

If Jacob misspells my name one more time I will lynch him. In seriousness, I think he has posted a lot of fluff and rehashed arguments. 5)I am interested in who he reads as blue, though. I have a blue read too.

Munk-E is seriously lackluster. I would vote for him over CC if I made a choice right now. I don't like CC's play but I don't like how little Munk has contributed and how long he has lurked.

So to rank my reads from scummiest to least it would go:

6)Munk-E
Cheesecake
Kickstarter

(area of ambiguity)

Jacob
Helo
Oats

(/end area of ambiguity)

SDM
Aqua
Me

On November 27 2012 06:33 yamato77 wrote:
Most of this game up to a point my suspicions were solely on you. Honestly, the read I have on you isn't that scummy, but you just haven't given reads on anyone else but me. The fact that you're still on me is 100% tunneling, but I kind of doubt scum would tunnel me so hard day 1 if they knew me being lynched would flip serious heat on them day 2. But you haven't contributed anything else to the thread except asking a bunch of people questions about their own votes/reads, and that isn't a good thing.

On November 27 2012 07:10 yamato77 wrote:
Aqua has given thoughts on other topics besides kick.

If I read you as scum, then Oats is automatically less so because I highly doubt scum would do this to their partner day 1. But the possibility is that he is scum and you are not.

Helo hasn't exactly done anything particularly scummy even if Munk is town. He called out a lurker. A safe play, but not alignment indicative.

I don't even know why I type this. You aren't going to take anything I say seriously. You have tunneled me SO HARD this game. It's absurd. I'm frustrated because of futility in posting anything in response to you because everyone twists it into "defending myself" when I do things like this. It creates unproductive discussion about my intentions. Obviously I know they are town, but no one else believes me because YOU have managed to throw enough doubt on my alignment to make people see it as scum.