Mario Mini Mafia
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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Please join us clarity :d | ||
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DP, NMM3 was an all-vanilla game basically. Actually scum had rber/framer, but all townies were VTs, so those roles were pointless. | ||
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On November 12 2012 21:59 DarthPunk wrote: yeah? How did It go? Giving scum useless roles is... Mean. Poor things panicking about being checked by a DT that doesn't exist. LOL Well, as the scum choosing night actions, yeah I put far more thought into it than I had to xD Game was just normal, except without the blue pontificating because there were never any actions to discuss. No-one really noticed the absence of blues. Just a good normal game of mafia I suppose. I think scum were given roles to disguise the fact that town did not have roles. | ||
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On November 12 2012 23:19 strongandbig wrote: I am also /in for cold war mafia and if it starts before this one finishes I am totally up to playing two at once but i needs mah mafia fix also minis with marv who can resist? On November 12 2012 23:20 strongandbig wrote: this is why wbg's "not-first-come-first-served" system is better i would like to play in a mini with syllogism <3 But then there would be a player I'd have to genuflect to, and that would be no good for my ego ^^;; | ||
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On November 13 2012 00:56 marvellosity wrote: phew, dodged a bullet like that | ||
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Don't need everyone to say they're not a miller, just for the miller to say he is :/ | ||
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On November 13 2012 09:13 Hopeless1der wrote: I'd prefer everyone says yea or nay to it ASAP, or else argue why claiming is a bad idea. Prevents anyone saying 'oh i didn't see whoops, im a miller' as they're going to be lynched. people can disagree all they like, but they'll be wrong, and any miller claims past day 1 should be auto-lynched. | ||
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On November 13 2012 09:35 debears wrote: and he isn't here for game start= obviously doesn't care about the game it's worrying that you've failed to read the thread already | ||
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On November 13 2012 09:37 Hapahauli wrote: @iamp The "random vote" gambit has been far overused. I'm not a fan. I'd comment on your post, but I'm not even sure what you're talking about there. random vote gambit is overused, yet pointless vote on DarthPunk is so much better, why? | ||
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It's ok, I can pass the mantle on. | ||
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Ok, Z-bo claimed miller. For some reason I like the miller mechanic, it's kinda fun. | ||
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He played in Whose Line (town) and Aperture mini (third party type scum thing) recently | ||
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On November 13 2012 10:01 strongandbig wrote: if zb was scum he would have made a much longer post ##vote: hapahauli im down with that iamperfection thinkamajig voice of experience right there ![]() | ||
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If anyone's 'active lurking' it's me. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. | ||
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On November 13 2012 10:49 DarthPunk wrote: Don't shut people down who are obviously trying their best to scum hunt and contribute. You are only going to discourage those things. Or is that what you want? I happily discourage stupidity, so yeah. strongandbig, answer yourself please. iamp's on the ball for calling out Blazing for *actually* popping into the thread, saying nothing, and leaving. | ||
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On November 13 2012 10:55 Hapahauli wrote: Oh goddamnit I got sniped by the "kenpachi rule" apparently, but my post still stands since he had his vote on me at the time of the post I reference. this makes no sense. the post was stupid, and that's irrelevant of your alignment. | ||
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On November 13 2012 10:59 Hapahauli wrote: Why doesn't it make sense? I'm just saying that SnB changed his vote to someone else before I made my vote on him (in which I reference his vote on me). Perhaps an unnecessary clarification, but it should make sense. so what if he had his vote on you? the post he commented on was stupid, what does him having his vote on you have anything to do with that? | ||
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On November 13 2012 11:00 Hapahauli wrote: @ Marv Let us into your mind a little bit - any thoughts/suspicions thusfar? not a lot worth sharing. I think the s&b wagon is a bit silly, but s&b's last two posts are a little too... try-hard for my liking. "look how casual i am guise!!!!" | ||
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On November 13 2012 11:04 debears wrote: ^^^^^Can someone tell me if this is how hopeless is? aren't you the same dude who told hapa it didn't matter who crossfire was from before because all we need is behavioural analysis? | ||
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On November 13 2012 11:08 Hopeless1der wrote: what is it that you would rather see from SnB before deciding whether to vote him? who knows, his alignment is up in the air right now, i'll see how he posts tomorrow. don't really wanna direct what i think he should be doing ![]() | ||
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On November 13 2012 11:10 strongandbig wrote: lol marv it's all because you said on irc that i'm more composed when i'm scum i'm upping my game son + Show Spoiler + wifomwifomwifomwifomwifom yes, this could well be true. sleep well and know i'm watching you, newbie 6 brother. Hesitate over every word. what will marv think of this sentence? is it too constructed? is this too over the top?! clam up in fear. Or carry on as normal and trust your alignment will win out, that's good too. | ||
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On November 13 2012 11:18 Hopeless1der wrote: that doesn't mean i don't do it anways, proven or not actually, reading the first couple of pages of your filter in Whose Line, you were pretty constructive, and you are not at all here. What gives? | ||
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On November 13 2012 11:26 Hopeless1der wrote: Themed game mostly I guess..it usually takes me longer to get constructive. alright, i know it's pot kettle black, but try not to snipe too much (i'm an awesome common sense police) the reason i didn't chuck a vote on you is because you seemed constructive in acme and you were scum there, so *shrug* | ||
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On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote: DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why. This won't do. also, this. If this is your gameplan, DP, stop it immediately, because it's fucking awful. And if you're town, I do not wish you to be fucking awful. | ||
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give good reasons at the time for your vote or it makes your vote meaningless. are we clear? | ||
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On November 13 2012 11:33 DarthPunk wrote: Lol marv scolding me is super cute. i don't do so for my own amusement. | ||
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On November 13 2012 11:37 iamperfection wrote: Whats everybody think of bh he is like a very good player when he is town from what i saw and here he really hasent done anything despite being here tell me what you guys think. I agree wholeheartedly, in Rock Band he came out all guns blazing (no pun intended) whereas the opposite is true here. I expect great things from him when he comes back to the thread, that's for sure. | ||
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On November 13 2012 11:40 DarthPunk wrote: Give him a chance. He is one of those guys I would 100% never lynch day one because the benefits of him being town vastly out weigh the risks of him being scum. From what I have heard around the grapevine however he is fairly easy to read as scum so we should be fine to take a look at him later on in the game. you kidding? I'd lynch him day 1 in a heartbeat if I thought he was scum. | ||
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On November 13 2012 17:16 Blazinghand wrote: K I think S&B is town and you guys voting him are voting him for carless, free posting that isn't at all how he played as scum a few days ago in Whose Line Mafia when he was posting shit like this on the first day + Show Spoiler + On November 02 2012 00:32 strongandbig wrote: Blazinghand, I am not saying you are violating the "mafia rules" or being "immoral" as the mafia community would see it. Churlish is a better adjective to describe your behavior than "cheating" would be. Dastardly, you're not being. Essentially, I think that "we joined this game to have fun with minigames in a mafia context, and just ignoring them isn't in the spirit of the game." For sure, you're well within your rights and the game rules to do what you've been doing, but I think the game would be more fun all around if we were all trying to follow the minigame rules and I hope the incentives to do so are stronger next time around. Going on to Adam. His posts this game "sound weirder" or "sound less genuine" to me than anyone else's except perhaps crossfire, who's playing the mad poet or something like that. It's hard to say whether that's because he's having a hard time posting naturally within the context of the minigame, or if it's because he is uncomfortable being scum or because he's not "being genuine" (I think that's how Sandroba described his scumhunting in some recent game I was following, reading people's posts and looking for people not being genuine etc). Just read through his filter a couple of times, it's not very long. K, here's one thing - he starts off with his "meta argument" on BKE, but then drops the read for no reason when he moves on to mementoss. Later, he says "BKE isn't scum to him," I would very much like to know what in BKE's filter gave him that impression because (as I outlined in my previous post) BKE's filter looks pretty terrible to me, and the worst parts are the parts that came after Adam's "meta read". Mementoss case, I find pretty unpersuasive, I think that comparing pre-game and in-game enthusiasm levels is a valid tactic. "Not posting much of value" or "not having strong opinions" can be a decent case to make if it's clear and pronounced but it's hardly unique to Mementoss at the moment, I would contend that BKE, Djagulingu, maybe hopeless also fall into that category. Oh, something else - he promises very early on to be like super active, but he is far less active than many other people. Putting the shoe on the other foot, however, his claims about the meta component to your case are pretty compelling. Qualifying that - I know your case is not mainly based on meta anymore. Really, however, unless you disagree with him that his more recent games are different from your claim about his meta, it should be recognized that that element of the case on him is weak. Something else you argue - he did originally take a position against BKE and later backtrack on it. Though I've said above that I don't understand why he backtracked, and though I really want to hear his reasoning, and though I think it's scummy to backtrack from one position and jump on another one without explaining yourself, I do think that at least taking a position is better than not taking a position, even if there is scummy backtracking. Ultimately, here's where I stand. Voting for BKE because I think he's scummier - his positions are less both in number and firmness, and there's also the factor of him doing what I believe is "smokescreening" by talking so much about "how important it is for people to vote in both threads" and then about "how people didn't understand what he meant when he was talking about how important it is for people to vote in both threads", neither of which matter very much. With that said, however, I think a lot of what you say about Adam makes sense, and I wouldn't strenuously object to voting him if that's necessary to get a majority. so yeah looks town to me have you not read what strongandbig has written? I spoke to strongandbig during/after Whose Line and told him his scum play was much more composed and constructed than his town play, and we've both alluded to that here. So in fact he's aware of it, and if he's scum would be actively trying to change it. What then makes you so sure he's town, scumski? | ||
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On November 13 2012 15:39 Blazinghand wrote: Z-BosoN should be aware it's on him as a non-DT-checkable player to distinguish himself as town, and what he's posted so far is all bullshit. ZB wanted a wagon to hop on with minimal discussion, so he puked some posts out into the thread and slapped down some poop vote. He voted debears, but unvoted him basically immediately. His reason for voting debears is also crap since debears doesn't see a need to worry about ZB right away. ZB says this: and that's basically wrong. The fact that debears essentially ignores ZB's claim (which is the right move-- it's clearly a null tell) is COMPLETELY normal. And look at this sentence from ZB-- 1.it's a meta case about debears comparing meta from PREVIOUSLY IN THE THREAD. That's not meta. That's bullshitting. Z-B iquickly moves over to another shitcase before peacing out of the thread: S&B's "accidental" "vt claim" (both of those are in question) could be suspicious. But Z-B doesn't explain why. He doesn't set up a scum motive. He just slaps down a vote and bails. This is a chance to look like a townie wagon-started without doing analysis or writing the kind of long posts that could reveal his own scum motives. When Hapa rightly calls him on it: 2.First off, a crap explanation. Everyone wants to appear as town cause getting lynched hurts your side no matter whether you're town or scum. A more correct explanation would talk about how VTs wouldn't claim VT because it narrows down potential blue snipes, and how he believes S&B was serious and not joking in that post. A town player would lay out his own thought process right away so that others understand what he's thinking. He'd respond to s&B and push the wagon, not just slap down a vote and a bad explanation. ZB is setting up to look good as a wagon starter (since scum don't like to stick their necks out) and appear to contribute to town, but if you read his astonishingly short filter, it's clear he's not actually helping. He's flinging shit at the wall and hoping it sticks. Let's splatter this guy. ##vote: Z-Boson I think this whole case is pretty bad actually. 1. You're introducing the word meta for no reason, and in a horrible way. While Z-Bo's point may be bad, comparing stuff and attitudes to things within game is perfectly valid and calling it bullshit meta is just total nonsense. 2. It's just you not reading. Z-Bo said "implying", not "appearing" or "saying". He's right, scum do like to *imply* they are town, and I understand the perspective of "oh, s&b "accidentally" claimed VT, of course he did, har har har". I don't see why your more correct explanation has to be more correct at all. Also, why are you attacking Z-Bo for the manner in which he's voted when there's a raft of players who have done similar things? (debears, s&b, hapa, DARTHPUNK (voted twice with no explanation), and probably a couple others too) | ||
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On November 13 2012 17:42 Clarity_nl wrote: Hapa, this still bothers me. I asked you what you thought about SnB's claim and if you thought it was bad for town, and you answered: You compared this to Cheese's claim from NMM XXX even though the situations are completely different. The only reason Cheese claimed was because he thought only VT's knew the VT flavor. So he was trying to claim without alerting scum. SnB just outright claimed VT. After I explain why it's different, you basically give me the same answer: The other thing I don't really like is the use of "theoretically yes" and "IMO" Whenever I've seen you post you tend to be direct and with conviction, but not this time. I agree with you Clarity, this is weird. Two things: 1. I don't inherently find a VT claim particularly suspicious. It's just meh. I think the bluesnipe argument is basically wrong because a blue can claim VT just the same. 2. The comparison, like you say, between this claim and Mr. Cheesecake's is totally misplaced. The one here was basically a throwaway and Mr. Cheesecake was (trying to) secretly signal other townies. The two are not the same in any way, and I'm curious that Hapa is equating them. | ||
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he only starts calling people bad if they don't vote with him ![]() | ||
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On November 13 2012 22:18 strongandbig wrote: but tbh marv the kenpachi rule has plenty of substance behind it and you know it i just don't like explaining it because once you explain it it stops working.... T_T the thing is, s&b, when you first mentioned it I went and re-read over that portion of the game, and honestly debears didn't even really attack you for it particularly, he only really mentioned it, and indeed subsequent posts he was replying to other things. So this would be an extremely weak instance of it at best in any case. | ||
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On November 13 2012 22:20 strongandbig wrote: yeah but no one expects him to do stuff like that day 1, he just gets to dick around incorrect, read NMM3 | ||
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On November 13 2012 23:10 Clarity_nl wrote: Marv if you're still around, who would you lynch if you had to pick someone right now? I am very much around. Currently I'd be lynching into a total lurker (thrawn or crossfire). My most significant progress so far has been removing a few players from the people I'd be willing to lynch today. | ||
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Hopeless, could you clarify this On November 13 2012 11:31 Hopeless1der wrote: Is the way debears confused 'small amount of games' with 'unreadable' scummy? He did it AFTER he was supposedly aware that cross has played before. or would you consider them the same thing? I'm not sure what you're getting at? As far as I can see, debears missed my Crossfire explanation post and therefore continued prattling on about smurfs or whatever. It's apparent that debears is guilty of not reading the thread properly, but I'm not entirely sure what you're asking here. | ||
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Like debears said just now there's not a lot to say about Crossfire otherwise, you can't really have a stance on someone who hasn't posted yet. The whole issue is overblown and should be dropped. If only because it's a big distraction to debears, who has to keep talking about it, and it's not helping anyone | ||
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On November 14 2012 00:53 Blazinghand wrote: so what's the delal with hopeless what's the deal with you posting like scum? | ||
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On November 14 2012 00:42 Blazinghand wrote: lil iamperfection im gonna talk down @ u till u get on my level cause else how u gonna hear me from down there lol On November 14 2012 00:43 Blazinghand wrote: no disrespect though cuZ ur voting well On November 14 2012 00:53 Blazinghand wrote: so what's the delal with hopeless this is not the town BH play I am familiar with. It's pointless. BH is capable of making lighthearted posts as town and indeed does so, but he does so while clearly pursuing his agenda and making his feelings clear. Town BH doesn't ask "so what's the deal with Hopeless'", he wades in with a strong opinion. Scummy. | ||
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On November 14 2012 01:09 Blazinghand wrote: When I get home I'll address that travesty againsf the human language that ZB thinks is a case but is in fact and OMGUS best do so, I'm down with it right now. ##Vote: BlazingHand | ||
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On November 14 2012 01:31 Blazinghand wrote: Really its just demeaning to English to have something so incorrect wrote with it No, this kinda nonsense is demeaning to english: On November 14 2012 01:17 Blazinghand wrote: nah this sis a marv pressure vote. if you thought I was scum youd have voted me before ZB omgused. alt theory: you sndor imh are scum Stop pouring scorn on the case until you've properly answered it. | ||
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On November 14 2012 01:35 Blazinghand wrote: iamp bad but not scum this is just how he plays and how does Z-Boson play, sir? | ||
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On November 14 2012 01:38 Blazinghand wrote: right now hes playing like scum no, how does he play normally? In other games? | ||
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On November 14 2012 01:40 Blazinghand wrote: dunno if you want to make a meta defense go ahead but this game XB is scum * ZB answer my god-damn question! | ||
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On November 14 2012 01:45 Clarity_nl wrote: Blazing for the love of god use spellcheck or autocorrect or something and please stop posting one liners and address the case made against you. Hi guys, I'm back. Marv I'm not suspicious of you, I was just curious about debears' response. I phrased the question in a way that would make him seem inconsistent if he found you town, but he found you town anyway. Gives me a town read on debears. Scum hate to be inconsistent. oh, interesting, I'd misread where you were going with it. Carry on then ^_^ | ||
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I think I may have an awesome quiz for you a little later in the evening. It may even be as good as my Palmar quiz in Rock Band. | ||
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On November 14 2012 01:54 Blazinghand wrote: so marv you think ZB is both coherent and town? unsure of Z-Bo's alignment, but his case seemed pretty reasonable, ya. Clarity, you'll have to wait and see! | ||
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On November 14 2012 02:06 Blazinghand wrote: including the part where he says mu case on him is bad huh i said myself i thought your case on him was bad, before z-bo did | ||
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that would be the case he wrote | ||
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On November 14 2012 02:42 Hapahauli wrote: Well duh it draws attention to himself if I call him out for it, but look at his line of thinking here - he basically completely sheeps BH and only adds the "iamperfection rule." Sheeping someone =/= drawing attention to yourself. It's the exact opposite in fact. don't be stupid. 1) iamp says miller claim is town 2) iamp votes for miller claim of course it's massively drawing attention to himself. | ||
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1. Believes miller claim 2. Later decides he's scummy The scum motivation is what? He wanted a case to jump on? Is that it? | ||
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On November 14 2012 02:55 Hapahauli wrote: @ Marv I've seen you super critical of virtually every case brought forth so far with little to offer on your own. What's your top scumread atm? Read my filter and it will all become clear | ||
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On November 14 2012 02:55 Hapahauli wrote: The hell? BH makes a case, and once it gains traction, iamperfection jumps on it. That's the fucking definition of "convenient" what traction? iamp was 2nd on it. | ||
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On November 14 2012 02:56 debears wrote: Its kinda weird that iamp went out of his way to point out the contradiction. Guilty conscience? I don't feel why he would need to bring it up as town unless someone asked him why wouldn't you mention something which is a blatant volte face? + Show Spoiler + On September 21 2012 21:55 marvellosity wrote: I haven't got more to say on Ange right now, so I'd like to talk about HiroPro a bit. Earlier I've been leaning town because I was impressed with his diligence and his arguments based on going back and finding meta from previous games, which seemed 'townie for effort'. I'm pretty much reversing that read now. Actually Hiro as town is more categorised by laziness. His last scum game was a while ago (magic mini normal), but looking through his filter there I found this: + Show Spoiler + On May 27 2012 07:00 HiroPro wrote: Katina: Katina has hardly been posting in this game and when she does, she's maintained a singular focus on N_T and Matt. JubJub 2: In this game, when going after N_T Katina displays a very odd use of meta - very different from the way she used in the past (LII: Jubjub Mafia where Katina fingers DocH based on meta with a clear difference between his town and mafia styles (when DocH is town his posting is much longer and doesn't attack other people)). Compare that to this game, where Katina uses meta against Nova_Terra (Nova_Terra is scum because he spams as mafia. Yet he does this both as town and mafia...) That's not a logical argument at all. Also everyone should look at the cases that Katina makes in that game and compare that to this game; there's a clear level of depth that's missing from anything she has posted here. This Game: Liar Game: When attacked in previous games (for example Liar Game) Katina typically brings forth new thoughts and reads (She's very eager to elaborate her reads on Palmar and address the issues that other people bring up). In this game though, Katina just says that she was busy and repeats the same arguments that she's been giving the entire game without analyzing anything new. With such a big difference between her town play and her play this game and a general lack of good posting and reads, I think Katina is almost definitely scum. A fairly long well thought through post, making valid points based on meta across several games and applying them to the current game. Except it's scum Hiro making this post. Looking through his town games, they are more categorised by shorter posts, where ultimately Hiro is more involved in what's going on than he is here. I believe HiroPro is scum when i changed my read on hiro in Rockband, I made mention of the fact. Why wouldn't you? | ||
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If we lynch him today for what he's done so far, I quit mafia. | ||
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On November 14 2012 03:00 debears wrote: Eh. I don't really see a need for it as town. Who cares if u change your read if you have good reasons? who cares whether you think there's a need? I'm just showing it's a natural thing for a townie to do. | ||
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On November 14 2012 03:01 Hapahauli wrote: Well I beg to differ marv. My mind is blown that you think that his actions so far are townie. MAYBE null. But town? Good lord. yeah my mind was blown when you found Ben Richards town and we know who ended up right there. | ||
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god i'm gonna look dumb later/post-game if he's scum. | ||
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On November 14 2012 00:12 Dandel Ion wrote: Votecount: strongandbig (2): Z-BosoN, Hapahauli Z-BosoN (2): Blazinghand, iamperfection debears (1): strongandbig Hopeless1der (1): debears Not voting (7): marvellosity, thrawn2112, Hopeless1der, Kickstart, Crossfire99, DarthPunk, Clarity_nl Currently, strongandbig is set to be lynched! A bit less than 35 hours remaining in Day 1. Full version: + Show Spoiler + strongandbig (2): Z-BosoN (2): Blazinghand, iamperfection debears (1): Hopeless1der (1): debears Blazinghand (0): Clarity_nl (0): Darthpunk (0): Hapahauli (0): marvellosity (0): Not voting (7): marvellosity, thrawn2112, Hopeless1der, Kickstart, Crossfire99, DarthPunk, Clarity_nl There are 4 people with votes, 5 if you include iamp's previous vote on Blazing. And iamp chooses to directly contradict his early town read to go on to Z-Bo? Why not debears, hopeless, staying on blazing, s&b, ANYONE that isn't z-bo? I just don't see it. | ||
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On November 14 2012 03:11 Hapahauli wrote: Again marv, I don't care what he could have done. We're not in his mind - we don't know what he's thinking. Therefore we have to look at what he did, and the contradiction makes no damn sense from a townie perspective. How the hell do you go from "insta-convinced claim = town" to "I agree with BH case, "iamperfeciton rule", Z-Bo is scum" if you're town. No way. NOOOOO way. why the fuck not? it makes a lot more sense to me as town than it does as scum. | ||
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On November 14 2012 05:31 Clarity_nl wrote: Anyone willing to give their read on DarthPunk while everyone anxiously awaits Blazinghand's defense and case? hi. i don't think he's scum at the moment. i think BH is increasingly looking like scum, however. | ||
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On November 14 2012 05:45 Clarity_nl wrote: @ Marv If he's not scum in your eyes, that means he's terrible town, or do you disagree? I think perhaps he hasn't been playing as seriously as he could/should have been. | ||
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On November 14 2012 03:11 Hapahauli wrote: Again marv, I don't care what he could have done. We're not in his mind - we don't know what he's thinking. Therefore we have to look at what he did, and the contradiction makes no damn sense from a townie perspective. How the hell do you go from "insta-convinced claim = town" to "I agree with BH case, "iamperfeciton rule", Z-Bo is scum" if you're town. No way. NOOOOO way. This has been bugging me all afternoon. Sure, we're not in his mind, but the job of a good townie is to PUT yourself in someone else's shoes and try to best work out how/what/why they're doing or have done things. And Hapa knows this too. GSL 3: On October 22 2012 07:49 Hapahauli wrote: Tbh, I can't see scum Kei playing this carelessly. I hate to use this read again, but it seems accurate in the games I've played so far - he has this "I don't give a fuck" attitude towards suspicion against him. Paired with how much effort I know he put into GSL I, I think he's town. Puts himself in the shoes of a player who was outwardly playing scummily (lurking, not giving reads, etc.). And his read there is that he doesn't see scum Kei doing whatever he was doing. In this game though: On November 14 2012 03:11 Hapahauli wrote: Again marv, I don't care what he could have done. We're not in his mind - we don't know what he's thinking. He's not willing to put the same thinking process into iamperfection, and this reeks, especially as my main argument in defence of iamperfection is why the fuck would he vote for Z-Bo of all people after his earlier town read on him. You have to think about what he could/should/would do and what iamp did there does not line up with how I see him playing scum, and for some reason Hapa does not address this. He gives some bad 'scum motive' but at the same time doesn't address anything at all with how iamp in particular was thinking at the time. | ||
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On November 14 2012 06:00 Blazinghand wrote: spoken like a guy who doesn't know how to crack jokes way easier to crack jokes than to contribute, dont see why it's odd stop spamming up the thread. | ||
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On November 14 2012 06:07 Blazinghand wrote: Absolutely, but cracking jokes isn't a scum tell any more than being inactive in general is. Town players play anti-town all the time. Someone who's posting but with zero content is "active lurking" which is functionally equivalent to lurking-- just as scummy, no more, no less. why don't you do something useful like answer the case against you? | ||
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On November 14 2012 07:06 Blazinghand wrote: Scumslips don't exist. Townies "scumslip" as much as scum do. There are scum mindsets and scum ways of doing things, but revealing "extra info" or telling someone you're scum inadvertently happens equally to scum or town. It's self-serving of me to mention this, but it's also true. townies don't HAVE extra info, so they can't reveal it. duh. | ||
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On November 14 2012 07:17 Blazinghand wrote: Townies make statements that appear to be scumslips. You know this as well as I do, and regularly fight against bad cases based on so-called scumslips all the time. Don't play dumb. not with extra information stuff, no. | ||
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that's a logical fallacy, because they don't have extra information to slip. | ||
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And stop calling his case OMGUS, it's tedious. | ||
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On November 14 2012 07:31 Blazinghand wrote: Z&B was hopping around and trying to start wagons until one stuck, then he did, and it stuck. He is the scummiest, and I will lynch him. Other people might also be scummy, but that's not my main concern: I've caught scum. It's a waste of my time and attention to think about these other, worse candidates beyond the normal examination of their posts and the cases against him. he uses his vote as a way to pressure people and he's "hopping around trying to start wagons"? Like one or two hours into the game? What drugs are you on? Attacking your attacker isn't just OMGUS, his case is clearly more than just OMGUS. My vote on Palmar in Rock Band at the start was OMGUS. | ||
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On November 14 2012 07:56 Hapahauli wrote: Well thanks for breaking the ice there marv. I'm a bit speechless myself. My first impression is that this is the most needlessly reckless play ever for scum to do. Ever. On the other hand, the claim itself is such an overreaction to the suspicion on him. The former explanation seems more likely to me... but like damn dude... oh pish, prplhz claimed cop with 3 votes on him in NMM2 day 1 and he was scum. | ||
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there is almost certainly a scum roleblocker and so basically scum are giving up all their roleblocks for this claim, because BH would have to soak up the scum roleblock every night. Further he's a sitting duck later on. As town it's also fucking retarded though. Fuck. | ||
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On November 14 2012 08:04 Blazinghand wrote: Im here via phone now. I've claimed because this discussion on lynching me is a waste of time. I wont make the same mistake twice and after chewing out BKEXE last game I dont wan to look like an idiot youre welcome to be mad at me but at least let me soak up a bullet/rb tonight and potentially stop the scum NK you don't fucking stop anything, scum roleblocks you and kills me, or scum roleblocks you and kills you. you fucking idiot. | ||
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and woop de do for our other blues. you've basically just removed our (probably only) protective role for the sake of 3 god damn votes. | ||
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On November 14 2012 08:39 Hapahauli wrote: @iamp ##Unvote From your reactions so far, you're probably town. The "I don't give a fuck" thing has been on full display for the last few hours, and that meta read hasn't been wrong on you yet. I also do like the post on Z-Bo, but I give him less townie points than you do. Z-Bo can push a read as either allignment, but I do agree he's being open so far. ![]() i return, less heatedly | ||
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i'm not going to shout at you any more, but i will if you say stuff like that. | ||
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On November 14 2012 11:10 Blazinghand wrote: He's pretty unhelpful and posting lots of oneliners without a lot of content, but that's just literally how the man plays. Clarity or Marv can back me up on this. Not sure what to make about the vote vs attacks thing. He's not on my lynch radar for today presently. who is, then? your two main reads have basically become town or null reads. | ||
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what's even more infuriating is that you don't understand why you are bad. any sensible townie would argue his way out of his lynch (3 votes, cmon) and only if necessary, a few hours from deadline, claim if he could absolutely not avoid getting lynched. Jailkeeper is a very strong role and now you've made it so it cannot protect anybody, plus a confirmed bluesnipe on you, if you are town. Which I'm not even convinced of yet, I just can't bring myself to lynch the claim day 1. | ||
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if this game was purely marv-world i'd flip you right now out of spite. In essence, your claim does not in any way match up to the esteem I generally hold your town play in. | ||
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The problem is, thrawn, is that my meta read on DarthPunk is the diametric opposite to yours. | ||
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On November 14 2012 11:39 Blazinghand wrote: If someone asks me, I will answer truthfully, but I won't volunteer information if I don't see a need to. from a meta perspective, yes, this is what town DP does, but the fact that he hasn't taken any stances that currently he's maintaining / is accountable for is scummy. I find him worthwhile even if Thrawn's meta case is crap. I think Thrawn comes out of this looking worse though, because he brought up a meta case that is basically false. I'd like to see more out of DP though, and so they're my two lynch targets right now. Plus you kinda for being such a drama queen. I disagree thrawn looks worse, as I know he genuinely believes in that meta read. It's not specific to this game. | ||
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On November 14 2012 11:40 thrawn2112 wrote: you do not remember my first newbie and how stubborn and argumentative he was being with me about my vig claim? he didn't end up voting me in the but he was definitely the most aggravating to deal with. and there was that game where kush scum claimed and dp tunneled and caused mislynches on townies afterwards because he was being stubborn with his reads. sure he can be stubborn with his reads as town. But overall I find him more cooperative as town and more lighthearted. As scum he is similarly argumentative and strident in his views, and is more "angry", without any of the lightheartedness. | ||
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On November 14 2012 11:50 thrawn2112 wrote: The fact that he hasn't taken a position is worrying-- but the joking and fluff are characteristic of his play. See NMMXXVIII http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=370487¤tpage=17#322 That game is one of the specific ones I'm thinking of in regards to dp's town play. He stays on his targets till he gets a flip, he is sorta.. aggressive.. with his language, especially when people are disagreeing with him. This game he's made extremely questionable votes while not pushing his reads. Town dp reads as the most convicted guy ever and that's not what i'm seeing this game.[/QUOTE] scum DP is equally if not more aggressive with his language. | ||
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On November 14 2012 11:50 Blazinghand wrote: Also I'm not voting debears this is not the same debears who in his last newbie game was abnormally excited about reaching a 30 page filter length, and was very very much the centre of attention. | ||
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DarthPunk - earlier in the day he was on my "do not lynch" list as I'd metad him townie. I no longer feel this way. The constant excuses (in relatively long posts too) are wearing me down. He knew how much time he was spending on mafia in the other game when he signed up to this one. If he spent any of the time he spent making excuses doing something productive then we'd be a lot better off. The problem with DP is that as scum I don't see him being quite that useless either, so meh. "Null" is a dull finish, but it's the kinda null where I'm being pulled both ways and I can't make up my mind either way. debears - I wanted to be more suspicious of debears than I am, but I can't quite make myself again. There's just something about the way he's gone about his ideas, like... the manner he's questioned people on them, that make me think he could be townie. I think he's probably a wily enough operator to fool me like that though, so I'm gonna continue to be wary, but I don't want to lynch him right now. thrawn - bleh. Blazing - IF you are town, you need to not be telling Kickstart he is "bad or scum" .... "he can be ignored" ... "he is irrelevant to our discourse." Kickstart has done nothing which I deem to be bad play and wanting to ignore a (however new) player like that is just horrible. Yuck. Crossfire - I was hoping for something a little more substantive than that after your re-read. The fact you failed to provide it makes me suspicious. s&b - If you're town, please do something. Hopeless - My current lynch choice. The only thing he has given to town is his musings on debears' inability to read the thread. At the time I did like that he dropped it when I asked him to, however he hasn't offered town anything at all since. I literally cannot find an opinion from Hopeless on anyone. On November 14 2012 05:22 Hopeless1der wrote: The only thing I really disagree with is the 'guilty conscience' as I would probably do the same thing. However, he not only flipflopped his town read, he sheeped his former scumread, with poorly explained reasoning as noted. I need to review his meta looking for posts like this: This post is so trivial...the explanation is like asking "Why?" and getting the answer "Because." This post. It looks like he might be saying something but actually he isn't. It's just summing up the post he's responding to, and summarising. He needs to review iamp's meta but has not, despite making a post half an hour after this one indicating he was still around with the capability to do so. ##Vote: Hopeless1der | ||
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On November 14 2012 22:30 Hopeless1der wrote: I think hes null. I found the phrase "tell me" (more/please/what you know) alot in his filter and thought I could use that against his meta somehow, but he says it as either alignment best I can tell. Liquid City he barely explains his reasoning, he was blue. GSL II, similar traits, but scum. I'd rather lynch BH over iamperfection today if that puts anything in perspective. That is not me saying I want to lynch BH, he's just higher on the list than perfection. So you no longer find how iamp flipflopped on Z-Boson particularly scummy? | ||
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##unvote | ||
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On November 14 2012 22:48 strongandbig wrote: hmm apparently both marv and bh disagree with me for agreeing that dp is usually more aggressive and in-your-face and not-wishy-washy than he is in this game. I'm pretty sure that at least one of marv and bh is town, if they were both scum BH wouldn't have claimed like that. I'll have to think a little bit or reread some darthpunk history if I really want to vote for him I guess. Please do. What you need to look at, s&b, is his scum games. It's no use saying "he's not this wishy washy as town" - because I completely agree with this, he isn't. He's not as scum either, though. To the bold: quite. | ||
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On November 14 2012 23:08 strongandbig wrote: oh forgot to unvote debears (I think that's who I was voting?) still think he's scum and would possibly be willing to consolidate on him if we need to consolidate but bh is just shouting "hey i'm scummy" at me ##unvote ##vote: blazinghand While I agree with you that he's scummy, I just don't think the best "technical solution" or what have you is to lynch him today. Do you have any reasons for calling debears scummy other than the Kenpachi rule? | ||
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On November 14 2012 23:06 Clarity_nl wrote: Marv, how did Hopeless convince you to unvote him? I think we're getting to the point where we have to consolidate a bit, narrow our focus. As much as I want to lynch BH, I don't think lynching a blue claim day 1 is smart. If he's scum that's great, he definitely might be, but if he flips JK or VT we're fucked. There won't be any useful information for us. @ everyone Is it safe to say that not idiotic lynch candidates are: Thrawn, Darthpunk, Hopeless, Crossfire and MAYBE debears? I've been having a hard time reading hapa, but the cases against him haven't convinced me whatsoever, and looking at his filter myself.... I haven't found anything I would consider scummy, but I definitely don't get a town vibe. He did actually seem to have looked at a couple of iamp's games, at least what he said seems true (iamp does say things like "tell me more" a lot). Clarity, you have first hand experience of debears from last game. Tell me about him. How is he like to play with this game compared to last? What has he given you that you were expecting, or what are you missing? Your insight is particularly valuable here. | ||
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On November 14 2012 23:12 iamperfection wrote: just trying the dear on marv want to see how it feels that'll be $10 | ||
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On November 15 2012 00:48 Blazinghand wrote: here via phone. anyo e votibg me needs to explain how my play this game is diferent than Storm Mafja or similar to any of the scum games ive played especially since a nontrivial component of the case is meat. no getting off voting me on meta wkfbojt at least doing your HW and staking out a position you can be held to. Ill be back in a few hours prk ably to vote one of these guys trying to opt out of the discussion by voti g me or more likely to call tbem Bad and develep DP case or talk Bout hopeless 1 meat Take more time on your phone, man. Anyway, I'll bite. First things first: you are a clever dude. You are also aware of your scum meta, and we've talked about it before too. As such you're capable of making changes to your meta, or trying to. In other words, being more aggressive and what have you. Things that have struck me this game with that: - You called iamp "bad" at least a couple of times. Just outright calling him a bad player. This is in contrast to say Rock Band where you railed at him for poor play and you kept pushing him to play better. Here you call him bad and that's different. - You called Kickstart "scum or bad", he should be "ignored", he should be "removed from our discourse" (or whatever the direct quote was). The townie BH I know does not completely belittle players like this. This boils down to pretty much outright bullying of a brand new player, and that is not the townie BH I know. - we've also talked about this before again, but one reason you're pretty good as town is that you make yourself look positively townie with your play. I don't give a shit if you got mislynched once, that's how you normally play town. Here your play is marked by put downs, sarcastic remarks, and very little positive input. - your case on Z-Boson. This was going to be part of my 'quiz', but if we take a look at your two most recent town-games, Rock Band and Whose Line, your first cases are marked by extensive use of meta. X is scummy because of Y, and look at how he played in this game and this game and this game to try to prove your argument. In this game you made no effort to research Z-Boson's meta, and that's not what I expect of a town BH. In contrast, your first major case as SK in Emergency Mafia also failed to utilise any meta as a supporting argument. Same with Bureaucracy. | ||
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On November 15 2012 01:12 DarthPunk wrote: That is so fucking fallacious. Lynching bad townies does not further your win condition. If you think it does you are fucking terrible. stop replying to things and look at a filter or two, please. | ||
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On November 15 2012 01:16 Clarity_nl wrote: Marv you're gonna have to tell me what this quiz thing was, or maybe refer me to where you did it in another game? I'm intrigued. @ Darth You're not getting lynched today, if you had read the thread you would know this. I was planning on pulling up BH's cases in Rock Band, Whose Line, Emergency, possibly Bureaucracy, and here. And playing "spot the difference" and "guess the alignment" with each post. Like I said above there, the two previous town games had lots of meta as supporting evidence. Here nothing - if you recall, I specifically asked BH earlier in the thread whether he had looked into Z-Bo's meta at all, and he had not. I previously did a 'quiz' in Rock Band where I pulled up a bunch of Palmar posts from previous games as well as that game and asked people to guess the alignment. I put two list posts from scum games, as well as a really detailed thought out post from a town game, next to his list post from that game. | ||
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thrawn - doesn't mention it. He makes me uncomfortable with his absence, but... meh. debears - also doesn't mention it. At all. I find this *extremely* odd, given that he commented on s&b's "claim" and also referenced Z-Bo's. It seems unlike him not to comment on it at all. The only time he's really mentioned it is screaming in all caps that we're not lynching a claimed blue Day 1. Hopeless - also doesn't mention it. Which is extremely odd for this reason: On November 14 2012 22:16 Hopeless1der wrote: -snip- Am I going to need to pull a BH and shoot my load earl--I mean sift through my own meta to find examples of me being a jackass? Btw debears, why in the hell were you unable/unwilling to comment on BH's claim? Attacks debears for not commenting on BH's claim but hasn't done so himself. I cannot explain why very clearly, but I just don't think we should be lynching DarthPunk today. I think the lynch should be between Hopeless and debears, and I'd like people to talk about that, a lot. At the moment this makes me lean on Hopeless (and yes, I'm aware I'm flipflopping on him like mad). ##Vote: Hopeless1der | ||
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On November 15 2012 01:54 strongandbig wrote: posting briefly from work - marv do you honestly believe bh was really being that dumb? Like, do you think he is telling the truth about why and how he claimed? It doesn't matter right now. It can be assessed much better tomorrow after night actions. wifomwifomwifom. If I had to choose I'd say BH was scum, but I'm nowhere near certain enough on it to lynch into a claimed blue without any further flip information. | ||
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DP does not play uselessly as scum either. | ||
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On November 15 2012 02:09 iamperfection wrote: debars did comment on it with caps lock no less | ||
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On November 15 2012 02:09 iamperfection wrote: debars did comment on it with caps lock no less that's not commenting on the claim, that's commenting much later on strongandbig wanting to lynch BH> There's a massive difference | ||
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On November 15 2012 02:11 iamperfection wrote: DP was not useless as town either in gsl III you're missing the fucking point. DP does not play uselessly AS EITHER ALIGNMENT. | ||
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On November 15 2012 02:13 iamperfection wrote: SO THAT MAKES HIM FUCKING TOWN??!!!?!?! it makes him neither, for fuck's sake. If he is not useless as either A or B, then when he IS useless you can't say that he's necessarily A or B. | ||
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On November 15 2012 02:29 thrawn2112 wrote: i think his claim's probably true... there's been no counter claim and it'd be difficult to fakeclaim this early on and hold your story straight the rest of the game. also, he came to similar conclusions as I did about the snb voting so i'm leaning town and the rest? we have very little to hang our hat on with you, dear. | ||
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And the debears screaming about not lynching claimed JK thing is increasingly getting on my nerves, given that's the first time he mentioned it. If he's really so convinced by it why hadn't he said anything about it previously? Especially as I mentioned he hasn't minded talking about other, less relevant, claims. On November 13 2012 10:04 debears wrote: so now we have 2 claims d1....great so he's tutting about claims... but doesn't mention BH's at all? Like, the really really important one? ##unvote ##vote: debears | ||
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On November 15 2012 02:49 debears wrote: Hey I'm the main lynch candidate now. Yahoo!!!!!! Will address hapa in a secs. Lolololol How long is lynch from now? host said exactly how long half an hour ago. work it out. | ||
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On November 15 2012 03:02 debears wrote: Lol BH *high five* You my dawg why didn't you comment on BH's claim? | ||
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On November 15 2012 03:04 strongandbig wrote: AT: "this is a dumb town claim but a dumber scum claim" I have yet to see why this is true. I addressed in this post why BH specifically would make this fakeclaim as scum right now. To summarize, it's a combination of reasons: he really enjoys trolling, and he knows how good of an idea making an unverifiable fakeclaim is as scum under pressure in the current TL meta. your argument "if he's alive in a few days" is terrible. if, in theory, he was town, there would be no reason for scum to kill him above anyone else; they could just roleblock him forever now that he's claimed, and he's taking enough heat that town doesn't get any kind of "confirmed townie" advantage from having him alive. all that said, debears is still my second lynch choice. I guess I should say more about him than "kenpachi rule", but I won't right now because I don't have time. There are some reasons not to lynch BH today. In any setup with 3+ blues, scum will have a roleblocker. If BH is lying, scum will have to withold all of their roleblocks. This makes the claim inherently a poor scum play. There may yet be another Jailkeeper (or perhaps, the only jailkeeper) who doesn't want to claim, but can 'prove' their existence when a roleblock appears tonight (hopefully on me, yo ![]() I've seen a fucking appalling day 1 jailkeeper claim before on a day 1. VE did it in... er... LIII? The claim made no sense, and it was fucking stupid. We lynched him. He flipped jailkeeper. So... ugh. | ||
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On November 15 2012 03:08 Blazinghand wrote: marv although i didnt use meta in my case on ZB i dont think thats a legit meta read of me cause the usage or none usage of one tool which i only started using in the past month it is only one part of a tool box and the rest of it? | ||
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On November 15 2012 03:30 Blazinghand wrote: oh yeah i mean ive played like poop im just saying im playing to my town meta not my scum meta stop making pointless one-liner posts from your phone, i don't want them. there was a whole bunch of stuff i said and you said you don't always use meta. this is not helpful. Address the rest of it too when you're home. Stop saying which meta you're playing to. | ||
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On November 15 2012 03:51 Blazinghand wrote: ill stop defending meta claims when people stop using it against me. dealing with specific meta claims is easy to do from the phone because i am intimately familiar with my own meta so might as well do it sooner rather than later right also if there's relevant meta in my defense im gonna talk about it and if you dont like the truth then too bad you didn't give me the truth, you answered one fucking tiny part of my post. | ||
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On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote: Why not DarthPunk? He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though. i hate this. what's your read on him and why? | ||
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On November 15 2012 05:58 Clarity_nl wrote: I never answered this, so I will now, it's scummy. You don't want to keep yourself alive as town? Stupid. I retort: "You don't want to keep yourself alive as scum?" | ||
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On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote: He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said? I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum. | ||
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I wanna lynch someone else. Case incoming once I get the pieces all together. | ||
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And I'm motherfucking marvellosity, baby. /hubris | ||
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Some of Hapa's pushing on him is fucking nonsense. | ||
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Given the legit concerns I raised earlier about the downsides of claiming Jailkeeper, plus the fact you're a good enough player to avert your lynch if you're town, I just wanted to know your thought process when you decided to claim. I'd quite like to make a read on you because it will help with my Z-Boson read. At the moment I think he is scum. Although I am struggling to make an excellent case out of it because so much of it comes down to tone. | ||
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On November 15 2012 08:30 Blazinghand wrote: I mean, I personally don't think ZB is scum right now. Earlier I did for the way he was trying to set up town cred with his voting pattern, but iamp correctly noted that ZB straightened up after his initial OMGUS on me. This could be due to scum thread coaching, I'll admit, but the aggression he displayed, however wrong-headed, is town to me. wasn't what i asked dear | ||
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On November 15 2012 08:33 Blazinghand wrote: You're not lynching me today and I'm town. I'm helping you with your ZB read. NO. I asked you about your claim thought process. I want to get a read on YOU. Please answer me. | ||
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Metarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort. On August 22 2012 02:38 Z-BosoN wrote: @goodkarma Well that was quick. Let me see if I understand. Now, in day 3, in a MYLO situation, you propose to. Wait a minute. This is do or die for the town. You plan to consolidate your vote on someone who barely has any information on him and has been a hardcore lurker since day one? Because he tunneled thrawn, as if you didn't? Oh wait, that's right, you had a very sudden change of heart. But then, you go on and say that: Well that's a very convenient argument, to go along with your name not being on that list. Drop in the bomb, wait for people to sheep you, then escape, no compromises. It's also ironic you didn't think of it before, when everybody wanted Shady Sands dead, who was the top poster at the moment. I'll go ahead and post the day one votes. Same argument you used. Look at that, everyone on ShadySands list must be quite the suspects of being scum. Because, "One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support." Except that he wasn't scum was he? This is because this argument is very weak. It only becomes suspicious when one target has a LOT of scumminess on him and a LOT of posts against him while the other looks so innocent and barely has anything substatial on him. This is not the case, because thrawn had a huge wall of text against him, not only the one you posted, but also the one that I did as well. DP also thought he was scum, and I will agree that the case against thrawn was fairly powerful. DAY ONE should have been the time we should have lynched lurkers. DAY TWO, maybe. Not day 3, with a do or die scenario, against someone who, as Obvious pointed out, is clearly not giving a rat's ass about this game. This day will be the target with the greatest case against him. I really don't like how quick it was for you to vote on golbat, and how quick some people seemed to sheep you. Regarding YourHarry, you went from him possibly being your third suspect to him being your main suspect with this post: Your arguments are nothing new, it's what has been stated on YourHarry since the beggining of time. The only thing new that you add is that he is suspiciously wanting everyone to roleclaim. But why do you focus on him, and blatantly ignore DarthPunk's same remark: The same guy in which you solemnly confided your trust in your "will": Also, you say these incredibly serious accusations: And you don't bother explaining what you mean. You just sheep around with the main case that has already been made, add something meaningless (if you want to give it meaning, please go ahead and attack DarthPunk as well), then hint at the most serious accusations you can possibly make and don't go ahead and explain what you mean. I agree wholeheartedly that YourHarry is scum, you can go ahead and check that in my filter , but the way you write this and the arguments you use make me feel very suspicious that you may be scum as well. Now I see that the only reason I had lifted my suspicions of you were mainly WIFOM, but your latest actions have definitely raised my eyebrows. Right now is the easiest time for a scum to slip, because any small mistake now will not slip by so easily. One more thing, you say that the night kills were not discussed in detail. Read my filter, if you will. Actually this night's night kills is what is giving me additional ammo on YH. That soon to come. ##FoS goodkarma Also, here is Z-Boson's filter from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495 Notice there are a large number of big posts. Big posts with certain conclusions. All the time. Much as here. What's missing in Z-Boson's play this game? On October 22 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote: Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet! On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote: Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him ![]() Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with? On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote: k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us ![]() On September 30 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote: Oh god. Is there anyways I can mega-vote him? On September 30 2012 13:52 Z-BosoN wrote: I think someone has some real issues. Does liquid city have a psych ward? On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote: Omfg austin really loves me. I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more. You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective. Right now you just seem desperate. I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again. On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote: Austin, holy shit. For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing. /applauds Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me. This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time. Look at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it: On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote: Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out ![]() Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo. On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote: DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why. This won't do. It goes from the above, to: On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote: Why not DarthPunk? He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though. He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick. On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote: Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post: Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that. Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist. Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind. ##Unvote There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense". Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it. Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist". None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play. When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone. Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum. As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out. ##Vote: Z-Boson | ||
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On November 15 2012 09:09 debears wrote: @Marv While it does fit meta, and I did say long posts make it easier for scum to think things out, I'm not willing to lynch Z-Bo today. Why not HopelesS? why not? | ||
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On November 15 2012 09:13 thrawn2112 wrote: marv do you have any problems with boson that aren't meta related? Generally speaking Z-Boson has not been involved with town at all, and while that directly contradicts his meta, it is scummy in its own right. An almost identical reference to this is HiroPro in Rock Band, who I found scum for meta reasons, and one of those reasons was that he was not invested in the thread. And his DP stuff I don't like, and just the general wording of some of his stuff I don't like (this is all in my case if I read it). And to preempt "I'm trying to change my style" defence. You can try to change your style to post more concisely, but the underlying player is still the same. Z-Boson would not suddenly become way more confident in his reads; however posts are presented it's not like he miraculously becomes 100% more certain on his reads as town. | ||
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On November 15 2012 09:20 Hapahauli wrote: @ BH Why the hell do you still have your vote on me? It's shit and you know it. Regarding Z-Boson It's interesting, and I'm interested in hearing what Z-Bo has to say about it. That being said, I still find debears much more scummy. 1) Z-Boson is matching his Newbie XXV scum-meta. I'm reallllly hesitant about using meta from that long-ago. It was his first game, and he's changed as a player a lot since then. There is a resemblance, but nothing lynchable. 2) Z-Boson is not making enough "non-serious" remarks. Again, this isn't a deviation that I consider significant enough from his town meta to be lynchable. 3) Z-Boson is more decisive. This point I like quite a bit. However, I've had some conversations with Z-Bo after recent newbie game where he mentioned he wanted to make a stylistic change to his game. He talked to me a lot about wanting to post less and what not. I think it's consistent. I'll see if I can find the skype logs. On August 26 2010 13:07 Ver wrote: The strongest proof is actually in the summary: the abrupt change in demeanor (a great catch, changes in psychology aren't easy to spot but are really compelling) ] | ||
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EBWOP: this was Ver commenting on Rastaban's case where rastaban said: "As I went through his posts this game, they lacked a lot of his characteristic humor that he used last game. This seems like a minor thing, but they all point to a change in his playing method. Why, I believe it is because he is mafia this time around." | ||
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Crossfire never came back. I dislike both these things immensely. | ||
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I don't think DP is scum. I don't think DP would make a case on Clarity if he's scum. There are enough outlying candidates for him to make a case on and vote on. I think it's more likely DP is being bad. I often find DP's reads as town somewhat ridiculous. | ||
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The change is too great. | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:01 Clarity_nl wrote: Marv I realize you're not at risk of getting lynched but it's not a difficult question to answer, why would you be willing to consolidate on cross? basically to lynch a lurker | ||
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##vote: crossfire99 | ||
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It's just nonsense. | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:10 Crossfire99 wrote: What do you want me to do about my internet? I can't help it. That is what I was working on when my internet crapped out, so I'm posting it now. 1 post a day isn't enough. Do not sign up for mafia games if that is all you can post. | ||
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sorry for the shenannies everyone. ##unvote ##vote: z-boson | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:13 debears wrote: Vote Hopeless guys. Seriously HE ISN'T HERE AND HE HASN'T CONTRIBUTED ALL DAY HE DOESN'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT TOWN he said he was going home from work, dude | ||
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I made a big case I believe in and got pissed off and voted a fucktard. silly silly. | ||
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I feel stronger about z-bo, tho. | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:33 Clarity_nl wrote: Marv you've been super quiet. Thoughts? Where the hell is thrawn? yeah i'm kinda in disarray atm. i felt quite strongly DP was town but making a random case like that is so fucking weird, i don't understand it. | ||
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On November 15 2012 08:30 Blazinghand wrote: I mean, I personally don't think ZB is scum right now. Earlier I did for the way he was trying to set up town cred with his voting pattern, but iamp correctly noted that ZB straightened up after his initial OMGUS on me. This could be due to scum thread coaching, I'll admit, but the aggression he displayed, however wrong-headed, is town to me. On November 15 2012 10:46 Blazinghand wrote: ._. curse you DP for casting doubt into my heart. I'll just shoot you tonight with all my vigi bullets then ##unvote ##vote ZB cool story bro | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:00 Blazinghand wrote: Please, marv, that was so 12 minutes ago you will have to answer for it tomorrow. | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:30 Clarity_nl wrote: Marv where are you. Even if you are flabbergasted please at least comment. Given this has come up a couple of times, I'll address it. It's awfully dull, though. So, before the game I said 2am deadlines were a bit dodgy for me, sometimes I'd be able to make it, sometimes I wouldn't. That's because my other half stays at my place on Wednesdays, Fridays, and Saturdays. On days that aren't these days, deadline is fine and I'm often up till 3am or whatever. On days that ARE these days, we usually go to bed at 1am or so. So I was already pushing my luck being up towards the lynch. So anyway, 15 mins before the lynch I finally had to start getting ready for bed to appease the other side of the bed, and I went for my smoke/brush my teeth/bathroom etc, where I was musing on BH calling Z-Boson town and then scum, which I dug up and went to bed shortly after, having just about had the time to digest the 5 new pages while I was away. Amazing last minute shenannies in the end, I didn't think town would want to lynch Hapa Day 1, but having done so I expected him to flip scum. So much to re-read and plenty of people who should come out looking good from this, which is nice ^^ | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:39 Blazinghand wrote: Of course, my mitigating circumstances are infinitely better because I wasn't even on the lynch block, Hapa never pushed me, I am a claimed blue, and I've generally been good. no, you have been the absolute worst player in the game. By a stretch. | ||
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If it were a bus the reasoning would have been better, but so much of the reasoning was completely atrocious. Just awful. Pending re-read, possibly Z-Bo town too. | ||
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On November 15 2012 21:47 Clarity_nl wrote: I just don't get this series of events. I agree that the "scumslip" thing was suspicious but we were waaaayy too close to deadline. This is, as well, on top of BH calling Z-Bo town, then voting him and calling him scum. | ||
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Obviously somewhere between the posts he came to the decision to recant on his JK claim. In the first quote he still had the intent of keeping up the 'charade'. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On November 13 2012 15:38 Blazinghand wrote: Honestly I think it's bad to tie yourself down with ideas like that. If someone's playing scummy, they're playing scummy. My scum play isn't amazing, but due to my extreme sex appeal and enormous intelligence and penis, I can assure you that it's improved a great deal. Mostly it's due to my large penis-- it is quite a monstrosity. It works as a pad, even. Back on topic, don't feel like you can't vote or push people because of possible contributions. This kind of play is lazy and puts preconceived notions of what certain players are worth ahead of behavioral analysis. Someone voting for me because they legitimately think I'm scum and they have the cojones to do it is infinitely more helpful to town than someone not voting me because I'm a sexy baller. That being said, iamperfection's vote is pretty typical iamperfection throwing his vote around trying to pressure people but not doing it effectively. He needs to realize that you should vote people when you want to lynch them, or else you won't be taken seriously. On November 14 2012 07:44 Blazinghand wrote: Well, I was hoping it wouldn't come to this, but if wishes were wings, etc. Man, there's few things I hate like arguing about my own meta, but several people have talked about it, at least in passing, so I'm dispelling the meta myth right now. I would have liked someone else to do it, but you all are too lazy to actually back up your meta statements so I have to do it myself. It'd be really nice if one of you could verify it for yourself because a dude talking about his own meta doesn't usually go well. Here are my scum games. There might be one or two I'm missing, but these are the ones I remember: Cop Idiot Mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328827&user=133498 Bureaucracy Mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678&user=133498 Resistance II: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=311315&user=133498 Emergency Mini Mafia (3rd party): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=311315&user=133498 If you take a look at all these games, even Emergency Mini Mafia, what people are attributing to my "bad scum meta" this game are not present at all. As scum I try to play like town-- posting big cases and interacting with people a lot. Where I fail is that as scum, I'm typically overly diplomatic and temperamentally less aggressive. This game is nothing like any of my scum games. Now let's look at the one time I've been mislynched, in Storm Mafia: Storm Mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=313426&user=133498 Yeah it's rather old but the point is I don't always play perfectly. Sometimes, yes, I'm making smaller posts and my cases aren't perfect. I've been mislynched for playing to my "scum meta" when in fact I just sometimes play differently as town. I'm not making the same mistake I made in Storm Mafia-- not defending myself zealously and claiming at the appropriate time. I'm the Jailkeeper. My crumb is in the post where I talk about my large penis and how it could work as a "pad" (link)-- for pad-lock, lock, locked up, jail, jailkeeper. Admittedly, role crumbs aren't much supporting evidence, but lynching a claimed blue D1 is amazingly bad play. It's possible there's no scum roleblocker which means my power can still be of use to us. You all have plenty of time to unvote me and vote Z-B before the day ends. Oh, and by the way, this is BH on VTs fakeclaiming: On June 17 2012 15:52 Blazinghand wrote: I'd like to second what WBG mentioned here about VT fakeclaims. Typically gambitting with a fakeclaim, especially in a semi-open mini like this, is a great way to get mislynched. The fact that scum freaked out and counterclaimed doesn't mean the gambit was good, it just meaned it worked. If, for example, the real Cop counterclaimed (since a 1-1 trade isn't so bad if they both get lynched, he thinks), it's entirely possible town could have killed the Cop, THEN KILLED THE VT. Could you imagine trying to say "oh, no, it was a fakeclaim you guys" after the Cop claimed, or after he got lynched for his counterclaim and flipped cop? Nobody would buy it. Scum would say "nice try, scum", and so would town. I guess the best analogy here is that Grush walked into a casino, went up to a roulette table, put it all on 0, and won 20 grand. Yeah, he won 20 grand. It doesn't mean the strat was good, though. All it means is he got lucky. | ||
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He needs to answer for his voting on Z-Bo and Hapa, though. Especially, for me, how we went from Z-Bo looking town to voting him and calling him scum shortly thereafter. | ||
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On November 15 2012 22:20 Clarity_nl wrote: Can you find a scum angle on backing out of your claim during N1? It's major WIFOM at best. Which actually makes me think it would be a good move for scum, since trying to keep your story straight as scum JK is hard. We have quite a bit of time, I'll mull it over. I can think of angles both ways. He's townie trying to stupidly protect the role he stupidly outed. Or he's scum who wants to be able to use his roleblock to actually roleblock people. | ||
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On November 15 2012 22:25 Clarity_nl wrote: Keep in mind he keeps insisting he is playing well. yes, I know, and I want to hit him in the face for it. But I kinda believe townie BH is capable of self delusion like that :/ | ||
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He's JK or scum. Pretty sure of this. | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:24 Blazinghand wrote: I'm tired of listening to the garbage you call logic. You're dead tomorrow. http://tinyurl.com/66wbb8t <3 Why did BH say this?? | ||
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On November 15 2012 23:41 debears wrote: oh btw, Iooked thru Hapa's filter for scum games. The only one I found was RB I believe and all Hapa did was troll that game after replacing in :/ He replaced in to Liquid City as scum, and got caught by a night mechanic. His first (2nd?) game as a newbie he was scum also. Like, Newbie 21 or something around there. | ||
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sure i'm game, i love quizzes. gotta be good ones though. | ||
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On the surface it makes Hopeless look worse. Not even because he was pushing debears so hard, though. I kinda expect that anyway. But because he didn't really address the wagon on Hopeless very much. Hapa was always like "yeah well, Hopeless lurks as both alignments yo" and never said much more about it. This is what I find potentially dodgy. I think/thought (not sure atm) Hopeless is townie, but I'm not so sure atm. Hopeless - what are your scum games other than Acme? | ||
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Correct. Liquid City is a perfect comparison here - I was playing a pretty nice game as scum, and then totally unexpectedly I was outed night 1 by a blue mechanic. I went down, and then town fucked themselves in the asses for days looking at connections I had with people. | ||
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who do you think comes out of this looking bad/worse? (anyone other than BH) | ||
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He popped his vote on Z-Bo 25 minutes before the deadline, and then as the night post came up, popped up to say "good job town". There was no emotional investment in the lynch at all, nor do I see any signs of him being invested in the game. I just looked at his filter from Whose Line and he seemed waaaaaaay more invested in the game. Real life internet excuses or no. | ||
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Really unsure on Hopeless atm. My note against him says "Could be either. ick. useless lurky. feels town. now not so sure. torn." I've also uncoloured you orange for now. | ||
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On November 16 2012 03:06 debears wrote: Do you use a coloring book for your reads? I use the google spreadsheet colour-in-cell function ![]() i'm sure that's the technical name. | ||
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On November 16 2012 05:33 Hopeless1der wrote: Yes, I plan to have it in the hour before deadline. why so late? now is better than later. some of us would like to have more time to talk about it than half an hour or something. | ||
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If you exist, put a bullet in BH's head please. He's either scum or a liability, and we're better off with him dead. Ta. | ||
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On November 16 2012 06:14 Clarity_nl wrote: You don't think cross would be a better vig target? No, I think Crossfire is a good lynch target. BH just needs to die. | ||
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On November 16 2012 06:19 debears wrote: We can get a read on bh as time goes by. How can we get a solid read off people who barely contribute? yes. | ||
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His nonsense claim. He calls Z-Bo town then votes him and calls him scum. He said DP is town, but also says "you can die tomorrow, fuck your bad logic" It's all just ridiculous and town is better off without him, right now. | ||
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you can agree, but you're wrong. | ||
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You don't have to post a lot to look at whether they're genuine, sincere, honest, contrived, fake. You also don't have to post a lot to look at whether it looks like they're pushing an agenda or not. BH on the other hand is just all over the place. JK claim recanted, voting for people he called town, having a really long, pointless, 13 page filter. If you want to lynch BH you'll be sitting there guessing yourself because his whole play is just total and utter nonsense. BH should be shot by a vigi tonight, and then we/town can work on getting a read on everyone else. It's very simple. | ||
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On November 16 2012 06:27 debears wrote: We pretty much know he's either jk or scum. That's a big chunk of info funnily enough, I was musing that he could be SK after all. | ||
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On November 16 2012 06:28 debears wrote: Isn't sk helpful to us until scum is gone? not necessarily, because if we're lynching scum, SK is shooting at town. It is in SK's interest to balance the game out according to lynches. Atm town has advantage, SK is shooting at town. | ||
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On November 16 2012 06:30 Clarity_nl wrote: How does an SK expect to win when he claims JK day 1? Even if scum decide to just roleblock him a ton, eventually SK will need to kill someone and scum will figure it out. because he recanted on his claim that's what made me think it's possible he is SK | ||
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On November 16 2012 06:31 Clarity_nl wrote: That is the most roundabout way of going about things if you're SK. Your vigi shot suggestion makes sense, wouldn't an SK BH consider this as well? If you fuck with everyones heads, someone is gonna want you dead before the end. BH claimed vigilante last time he was SK and got lynched day 2 for making such a retarded play. Expecting optimal play is a mistake. The possible motive as SK is easy enough - you make yourself a terrible target for a scum shot. If I do say so myself, in this game I am the highest priority target, and behind me there's a couple of players, one of which is BlazingHand. Making himself useless avoids being shot by scum. He may hope he can avoid the lynch long enough as well to manage to pull off the win somehow. I don't know. There might not be an SK, he probably isn't even SK He could be scum, he could be anything, we don't know because his play is retarded. That's why a vigi should be shooting at him. | ||
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On November 16 2012 06:36 debears wrote: And if bh is sk its a wasted shot if he's nk immune not necessarily. because if he's jailkeeper, scum would be roleblocking him to try to prevent him saving their scumshot. And scum would only know he's not-scum. And if he doesn't die, then town knows 100% that he is SK. That would be extremely valuable. | ||
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On November 16 2012 06:37 marvellosity wrote: not necessarily. because if he's jailkeeper, scum would be roleblocking him to try to prevent him saving their scumshot. And scum would only know he's not-scum. And if he doesn't die, then town knows 100% that he is SK. That would be extremely valuable. EBWOP: to clarify a little, roleblocking removes one-shot immunity. | ||
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On November 16 2012 06:43 Kickstart wrote: Ok fair enough - I haven't helped pull any information. But I have given thoughts on several people (hapa, bh, hopeless, my thoughts on ZB) without just quoting what someone else has said. I really don't want to use the fact that this is my first game as an excuse for myself, but it is true and is why I'm posting the way I am. But in my defense, at least I am trying to contribute - there are plenty of people who may be posting tons but aren't contributing anything or even trying to. who would you say those people are, dear? | ||
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Are there any other rules that are non-standard that I should know about? | ||
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if he's jailkeeper he'll not be able to pull off his saves because he'll be roleblocked. Don't shoot a lurker, because, maybe you're not good enough to, but others are good enough to get reads on them. | ||
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On November 16 2012 06:52 strongandbig wrote: maaaarv say something about hopeless's list post so i can move on to something else what do you want to know? I don't think anything of it in particular. I can see either alignment posting it. | ||
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On November 16 2012 07:02 debears wrote: Cool marv. Flaming cuz I disagree with you. That's real pro town there You're making a huge deal out of this. Just lynch him if u feel he's that detrimental. Don't make a vig waste a shot (cuz 2/3 things he could be are wasted shots) I'm making a big deal out of this because I'm telling the vigi what's optimal, and you're saying it's not. | ||
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On November 16 2012 07:22 iamperfection wrote: marv you dont think bh is just playing wifom mind games with the mafia in being a jk? BH could be doing fucking anything. | ||
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That is not lurking. Just because he's not activity fiends like the rest of us doesn't make him a lurker. 30+ posts in a cycle is quite adequate actually. | ||
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On November 16 2012 07:31 marvellosity wrote: His content seems reasonable. I think he's probably town. Also, although he's not a mass poster, he seems actively interested in the game. He was around for the lynch, kinda panicking like the rest of town were, and he was one of the ones who voted hapa (of course one might say, given his earlier posts). Given it's his first game and he's often absent, he could easily have just not voted for hapa and pretended to be gone or whatever. | ||
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On November 16 2012 07:34 debears wrote: Ok noted. Now what about thrawn, dp, crossfire? I'll flesh out more opinions in the resolution time | ||
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you said you had a scumread on clairty so you're not giving anyone new information, and 100% you're not being shot, so it's just weird. | ||
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Not sure what i make of the case itself, whether it's genuine or not. Some of it is silly like mixing names up. Why does that have to be scummy? The quote where it says "my scumreads aren't important" Clarity in that quote was saying that he would address DarthPunk's case ON Clarity, as Clarity wasn't getting lynched day 1, which isn't the same thing at all. | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:14 Clarity_nl wrote: Is it bad of me that I still feel that was fucking dumb as shit? this is the only thing that gives me pause about Clarity really. Maybe it's just a different type of personality but if you're lynching scum day 1, i don't give a shit how it went down, i'm just really happy it happened. like... it all kinda was a bit dumb as shit, but i'd expect it to be said in a more joking manner. | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:06 Blazinghand wrote: Marv is an amazing scum player in general-- he's never lost as scum and he plays a pro-town game as either. I wouldn't lynch him D2 though just because he seems "too pro-town". DT would do well to check him. I lost as scum in the last game you hosted dear. Checking me is a fucking ridiculous use of a check. | ||
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On November 16 2012 09:48 Blazinghand wrote: Not a good use of a vigi shot given that we have lurkers. Marv is smart enough to know this, but he's (pretending to be?) mad at me so he wants to shoot me anyways. we don't have lurkers, really. we have Crossfire who is lynchable, not simply for lurking. And thrawn. and that's it. Explain why you called Z-Boson town, then voted him and called him scum. | ||
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fucking god save me. | ||
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no, that's nothing to do with your read on Z-Boson. | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:10 marvellosity wrote: no, that's nothing to do with your read on Z-Boson. answer this. | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:12 Blazinghand wrote: There were only two wagons at the time dude, both of those guys were less scummy than hapa but it wasn't happening so I unvoted hapa There's a difference between "there are two wagons" and "this guys is town. no wait, he's scum" that's bs. | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:12 iamperfection wrote: anybody want to comment on my will back there? sorry buddy, i'll get to it. i agree with much but not all of what you say. | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:15 Blazinghand wrote: Well, I sure aint gonna call the guy I'm voting town am I you already had and gave NO REASON WHY HE WAS NOW SUDDENLY SCUM | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:16 Blazinghand wrote: right, but not when I'm voting him derp so you were voting someone you thought was town and called him scum to what, keep up appearances? what the fuck? | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:16 Blazinghand wrote: reasonable ways that involve claiming jk D1 then lynching hapa at the last minute by 1 vote? yes, you could have fakeclaimed. I led a wagon on scum Day 1 in Liquid City and I was scum You can be scum. I desperately want you to be scum. | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:18 Blazinghand wrote: What, no. I thought ZB was a better lynch than DP given DP's reactions so I voted him and called him scum are you just willfully misinterpreting me here? this is you I'm not misrepresenting shit. I went back and looked at your filter when I was asking you about Z-Boson. YOU SAID YOU THOUGHT HE WAS TOWN. Then you didn't want to lynch DP and suddenly Z-Bo becomes scum? HOW DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:20 Blazinghand wrote: IT makes perfect sense you just refuse to understand for some reason. look 0) want to lynch hapa, DP and ZB are not great lynches, but have to unvote hapa cause it's not hapaning. (huk huk huk) 1) want to lynch DP, vote him, think ZB is towner 2) DP becomes towner 3) vote for ZB and call him scum I don't get where you don't understand one player being townier than another doesn't make the other one scum... HOW DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THIS | ||
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Player A did not magically become scum in that scenario. | ||
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In case, ya know, i catch everyone when i'm left alive for a couple of days. as has happened reasonably regularly my last few town games. and you said you saved DP, not ZB. jesus christ. | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:29 Blazinghand wrote: Well, even off hand, all of you could be blues, and DP is not a blue. Also i have a strong town-read on DP, even if he's less useful to town than all of you. you protect your biggest assets as JK, it's really easy. | ||
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iamperfection - totes town. he just is. not saying any more, he's town. darthpunk - town, didn't think he was scum all day and then came out really good around lynch time. clarity - town, for some reason i don't feel as strongly about this as i did, but still feel it pretty strongly. way more involved n shit than when he played scum. debears - town. would have been null but i find it impossible to believe the way day 1 went down that he's scum. gotta be town. Kickstart - I think he's town. I said why earlier in the night phase. I quite like his posting, and he was really involved and invested around lynch time, and he voted hapa. should be town. Now there's a more greyish area: strongandbig - meta suggests that he's town. but... at the end of the last game i told him specifically what made him look like scum, and I think he's a good enough player to be able to change it up. I'd be more solidly town on him except he's been more useless than i expected. and usually s&b is useful as town. So I dunno. If I was nudged I'd say town, but i'm not uber convinced. Z-Boson - argggg. his meta is SO FAR OFF, even with his explanation. he DOES buy points though in that he basically preempted my case. Plus, he claimed miller. Now that's not a definite tell in itself, but he did it before everyone had posted and it's really risky, because if a real miller existed, then statistically it's enormously unlikely there are two millers. It just seems unnecessary. If pushed, again I would say town. thrawn - it's getting trickier here. so fucking lurky. There are a couple of things I consider here. Look at Acme that just finished. Like, everyone is ssaying "i expect more from thrawn as town". But thrawn definitely looked in that game like he'd lost a lot of his va-va-voom. he looked really flat. just like he's playing in this game. In addition to this, his case on DP read as genuine. I know that he totally believes in the meta read that he set forth in his case, which made it sincere. He was using a sincere townie meta argument in his argument on DP, which I liked. I think for whatever reason thrawn is bored or unmotivated, but I think he's town. Hopeless - i'm all-a flipfloppy on hopeless. I don't like at all how Hapa basically brushed off talking about Hopeless, even though he was quite clearly a major contender for a large portion of the 2nd half of the day. "he lurks as either alignment" is all hapa had to say about it. really weak, tellingly weak even. On the other hand, at some points I've kinda gotten a townie feel from his play. But it isn't a strong gut feeling at all. in other parts he's been fairly non-contributory. If I had to choose, I'd say scum. Crossfire - lurky AND scummy. Clarity - it's a big mistake too many players make going "oh, he's a lurker, it's so coinflippy". That's a weak viewpoint to take. I talked earlier in the phase why I thought he was scum. He's lurking which is bad in itself, but also he's totally uninvested in the game. I haven't seen a single post of his that shows he gives a shit. I looked at his play in Whose Line where he was town, and he gave many shits. He was involved, he posted quite a lot, he was down with what town was doing, he was mucking in. Even if he is having internet issues or whatever, his posts while he are here do not show any of that mentality. absolutely the strongest lynch in my opinion. BH - fskfsdkfjsdklfjdklsfjsdklfjklsdfjsdkljfdklsjfdklsjfsdvdfvnxkvsnsdfnsdkjfhdjsvnjksdnvjknksdbnvjksdnvjksdnvksdnvsdkvnsdjkvnjksdnvklzsnvxsknvzkjvnksdvgiojfglkjgdjknbkdjfnbdklsfngkdjngjkdgnjkdfngkljdfngkdnfgkljdngjkdfngkjndgjkldnfjkgndklgndfjkgndjkfgndksjfngkdfjlgndfjkngkdfjngkdnsfgkdfjlnsgkljsdngdjnfgnldfkjgsdn. | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:45 Blazinghand wrote: Marv is it ok if we interpret that string of characters next to my name as "I hate to say it, but logically BH is town." no, and stop antagonising me you dick | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:39 debears wrote: DP haven't u been saying BH is scum all day? I'd really like this answered actually. | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:47 Clarity_nl wrote: @ Marv Yes he's a good lynch D2, but your shenannies D1 lynchtime to go for cross would have been bad. I don't think he's a coinflipanymore, but D1 he totally was. yes, but you made a comment earlier today along the lines of "ugh he's just a lurker" which he isn't. | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:52 debears wrote: Yep marv. And he accused like 5 ppl this night of being scum, including me i'm tempted to retract my read on that alone. jesus. and if hopeless is vigi... hum. maybe there's scum in my grey area where i fell town but are actually scum. | ||
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perhaps some of my conclusions were wrong. If crossfire is town, all of my conclusions were wrong ![]() | ||
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if crossfire flips scum. then... s&b/Z-bo/thrawn in that order I literally don't know where to put DP right now. He might have just majorly fucked up with the BH thing and he's disappeared. Fuck. | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:58 Blazinghand wrote: Actually waht would be cool is if DP was somehow the other scum, and delivering the scum KP, and I just blocked him that would be epically hilarious. and i would forgive you. | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:59 debears wrote: LOL. That is not making any sense. "Oh his breadcrumbs make sense now" That's cool no, it's the fact that BH had recanted when DP called him scum. now BH is saying he is JK with a crumb to say so. the two ARE different. | ||
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![]() gg, gl town. Bring it home! | ||
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On November 22 2012 18:55 Kickstart wrote: Yeah I was pleased that everyone read me as town basically all game, not so pleased that everyone was like "stupid townie" or "noobie townie", even if it is true since this was my first -_-. You are a noobie townie, that's not an insult. But I thought you played very well. Made a case + vote on scum day 1 and were extremely clearly town by the flip too. This is a huge success for *any* townie. In fact you outplayed many of the not so noobie townies ![]() Djo - nice try, coming in from so behind. Respect. s&b - I have no idea how you think "lololol i dicked around day 1, it was fun" matches with "my philosophy is that townies should try to avoid being mislynched". Does not compute. BH - still one of the worst claims I've ever seen. DP - great catch on Djo at the end. Your setup spec/lack of scumhunting was bang on. | ||
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that would have meant iamp would have lynched TWO players off my "town" list. tsk, iamp, tsk. | ||
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On November 23 2012 01:19 Hopeless1der wrote: I should have shot BH like you said I should, then we'd have had a real game to analyze, right? town would've lynched crossfire day 2, what's the difference | ||
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I'd still have shot BH out of spite, even looking back, simply because the day 2 lynch was clear. The game was pretty much solved night 1 either way. | ||
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On November 23 2012 02:42 Hopeless1der wrote: Yeah but how much of it was BH and marv ripping each other new ones? I like to think it was rather onesided ![]() | ||
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On November 23 2012 08:13 Blazinghand wrote: But.. town WAS already doing great. Like, that's a fact. You're welcome to dispute that fact, but it was true. In any case, Aside from me not buying your defense, what other lazy things did I do that I should avoid in the future? we're talking post 1st cycle, right? ^_^ | ||
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On November 23 2012 08:14 Blazinghand wrote: Yeah read my comments on the last page or two. My gf's grandmother died etc ah. sorry to hear it. I'm most curious how you went from protecting DP over me night 1 to not being sure he was town later. Like, nothing significant had changed. DP pretty much had to be town because of the first cycle. | ||
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On November 23 2012 08:17 Blazinghand wrote: DP wasn't reading the thread-- I had him as my least townie town read for that. your death reads post was dangerously indecisive. It was sooooo unlikely, like monumentally so, that DP was scum after the day 1 shenannies. "I like DP less, but I think Djo is scummier" was not as strong as I'd hoped, especially as you'd cottoned on to the fact that Djodref's setup speculation basically took days and confirmed players who would end up being confirmed eventually and weren't getting lynched. Like, there were REALLY REALLY GOOD REASONS why DP should be town, and none of these reasons existed for Djo. | ||
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all's well that ends well, thankfully. | ||
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On November 23 2012 08:24 DarthPunk wrote: That being said. I think I should be banned or something. It is clearly against the rules to win by making others not want to play. And I'm pretty sure that is what happened here. No, no, this is simply not a correct reflection of events. | ||
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On November 23 2012 08:34 Z-BosoN wrote: He's aggressive as both alignments. But his play as town is very different as town and as scum in some way I'll leave marv to explain ![]() And give away my secrets?! There was one other thing - although debears got bizarrely sniped, he wasn't checking Djodref that night, when he should have been. Check the replacement almost always, especially if he's replacing some lurker who's on the confirmed, flipped town's "lynch list" | ||
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On November 23 2012 08:52 DarthPunk wrote: I disagree. But fair enough. Now marv just needs to tell me my meta tell so I can change it. you will roll town most of the time (yes, i know you've been a bit unlucky with scum rolls) so having someone recognise you as town is pretty useful. | ||
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On November 23 2012 09:01 DarthPunk wrote: Yes but if I can emulate it I can do it as both alignments and then everyone will know I am town regardless of alignment. Right? how does this benefit me? ![]() | ||
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On November 23 2012 09:27 Clarity_nl wrote: You get to improve the play of others and therefore have a richer experience when you play with them but it won't improve his town play, only his scumplay, and the chances of rolling scum with someone are quite small. I'd rather his scumplay was catchable :D | ||
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it's quite hard to describe, really. just little behavioural and tonal tells. Kei knows how to read you too, ask him, ask him! | ||
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Don't jest, some players like Drazerk genuinely believe that's a good thing. He plays terribly on purpose so people can't "meta" him. Don't ask. | ||
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On November 23 2012 22:58 Blazinghand wrote: Can I change my story from "played this bad while trying" to "played this bad but was actually trying to play bad for weird meta reasons" it'd make me feel better <3 actually apart from the first cycle I don't really think you played badly, maybe like you admitted a little lazily. | ||
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On November 24 2012 02:40 debears wrote: I think the best strategy in terms of meta is to just post a shit ton 1) It makes you get nked early as town 2) It makes you look scummy day 1 no matter what, but you will never be lynched unless you just completely mess up 3) It allows you as scum to be active with thread presence while still being considered scummy The only downside, as to what Hapa and Marv experience, is that you don't make it past d2/d3 as scum :D But maybe you can bullshit your way out of it i don't really agree with any of this especially as most of my scum games i've been alive to take the win at lylo you get nked early if you're strong and constructive, not because you post a lot | ||
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On November 24 2012 03:07 Dandel Ion wrote: That'd be the so-called "Oh-god-shut-the-fuck-up bullet" that's where the "wtf" shot on Shady Sands came from in Death Note. He was a clear mislynch target for me as scum but I killed him to stop him posting. No-one in the thread or the obsQT understood the shot at all, and gamewise it was completely suboptimal. | ||
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On November 26 2012 10:24 Blazinghand wrote: I'm gonna be real here it was a picture of a dick why don't i believe you | ||
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On November 28 2012 11:06 Blazinghand wrote: It's certainly not against the rules, but it's playing a game that's not mafia. Mentioning out-of-game things in game as excuses for activity is unsportsmanlike. I don't want to play a game that's about seeing if someone's excuse is real or not by trying to figure out if it's photo-shopped or it makes sense. That game isn't mafia, and it isn't what mafia should be about. I only partially agree. If I've been away for some reason or I know I'll be away, I'll say so so that the thread knows. People can take it or leave it. I'd rather just say "I'm travelling today, so I won't be around until tomorrow" than ppl go "omg marv so quiet for so long i wonder wft is up with that shizzle to the nizzle" | ||
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On November 28 2012 11:16 Blazinghand wrote: I don't think saying "I'm gonna be gone for a day" is great but at least it's something that can be analyzed and fit into a read with someone's actions. I personally ignore such statements because they are as easily made by town as by scum-- it's null. It doesn't offend me, it's just not helpful. I think once people start photographing plane tickets and taking screenshots of dota games, though, they've crossed the line. It may not be against the rules but I find it very distasteful. yeah, i just don't agree with this. like, it's supposed to be null, i'm just making a statement of fact. Obviously you can take inactivity/excuses into a larger read, but overall I much prefer warning the thread of my absences. I've never lied about my absences as either alignment and I never will. | ||
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On November 30 2012 07:05 Blazinghand wrote: I'm infinitely more honest about mafia than you are because I don't mention out-of-game stuff, I don't take photos and screenshots of things to "prove" why I was AFK and I don't derail the thread with it. I'll never be put in a situation where i have to choose between "honor" and my win-con because my philosophy, which is to ignore and treat as null (not scummy or townie) anyone's excuses prevents the out-of-game from interacting with the in-game. That doesn't make you more honest. s&b is 100% honest about what he's done. The viewpoint you hold I wager is in the minority. As you're saying to the rest of us, you're free to hold it; but however much you want it to be it isn't more intellectually honest or superior. The fact you take such a stance is your own peculiarity, and you should recognise it as such... | ||
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Not a lot else to say about it as no-one else agrees with you. | ||
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