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@ debears
Shit, I have just missed you. Anyway, it was a long time ago but I still want have some details about what happened in your head during the exchange between S&B and BH at D2. Especially I want to know why you posted this.
On November 17 2012 14:08 Djodref wrote:@ debearsCan you explain me this post and your latest vote and unvote against BH in details ?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [stuff I decided is less important] +Mostly I'm looking at how people reacted to my claim. Town players are typically angered by it because they are like "oh shit this guy is a blue and is probably gonna get shot or RBed now wtffff" On November 14 2012 07:57 marvellosity wrote:
I am absurdly angry at you if you are town, BH. We see responses like this from marv, but he eventually accepts it after many long, pointless arguments in which he's a little shit. Clarity, on the other hand is like this: On November 14 2012 08:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
Blazing, you didn't HAVE to claim. I guess it's too late for that though, so let's leave that till post game.
Do you still believe Zbo is scum, and who else do you have scumreads on? Give us as much information as possible this daycycle. Which I don't really like. At the time I was thinking "oh clarity is totes reasonable" though I saw it as scummy play from hapa to believe my claim so easily. I dislike that his chief critiques of me are stylistic, with stuff like this: On November 14 2012 06:04 Clarity_nl wrote:
@ Blazing
Well I'm working under the assumption that it's a time issue, being in two active mafia games.
Cracking jokes is something you do on the side. You play mafia to play mafia, socializing is nice but it's not why I play mafia at least, guess I can't speak for others.
If all you're doing is cracking jokes then that's anti-town, you don't agree? If you're going to be around to post 3 pages of filter without content, why not post 1 page of content instead, if you're town.
On November 14 2012 01:45 Clarity_nl wrote:
Blazing for the love of god use spellcheck or autocorrect or something and please stop posting one liners and address the case made against you. On November 15 2012 00:49 Clarity_nl wrote:
God blazing. I understand you're posting on your phone but do you really not have auto correct or something?
though the second one has, admittedly, some content. His attacks on me have focused on things like "scumslips" On November 14 2012 07:04 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 07:02 Blazinghand wrote:
Are you saying I townslipped because a scum player would refer to himself as scum? No. I see it more as a scumslip.
But here's the money shot:
On November 15 2012 10:52 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:51 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 10:51 Clarity_nl wrote:
Hapa just hard defended you, and you think he's scum? Explain before you get lynched please. Actually if you think about it, this is exactly the kind of thing Scum OR Town Hapa would do Right, so where/how is he scum? You have 8 minutes.
On November 15 2012 10:53 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:52 Blazinghand wrote:
I still don't like Hapa at all. He seems way too straight-laced for his normal town play. Anyone want to lynch him? What the fuck. Shut up.
And I really can't make sense of this. Not at all.
All game, Clarity equivocates with Hapa, and he does NOT like the idea of a Hapa switch, or even suggesting he's scum, when the pressure is on in the final minutes of D1.
Check out how clarity interacts with Hapa D1:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 11:08 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 11:07 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 11:05 marvellosity wrote:On November 13 2012 11:04 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 11:01 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 13 2012 10:55 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 10:53 Hopeless1der wrote:
What good did that question do for town? I'm trying to figure out wtf you are doing coming in out of nowhere and lecturing someone early d1. In fact, lecturing everyone for their scumhunting. What have you done? ##Unvote
##Vote Hopeless1der DP calls out marv because multiple people were actively lurking and you singling out clarity was unfair. I was also lurking, and DP implies you were "trying your hardest", whereas you have said: On November 13 2012 10:48 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 10:46 Hopeless1der wrote:
I think debears is just mucking up the thread hard, but that's apparently just what he does? pretty much what marv said again for myself on the active lurking. Eh. It's early d1. Give me about 10 more hours before the good stuff comes out. And yeah guys didn't realize it's only 2 hours at this point.... And yeah marv that's why my vote is still on u! Did we catch the scums yet? Did 10 hours pass when I wasnt looking? ^^^^^Can someone tell me if this is how hopeless is? aren't you the same dude who told hapa it didn't matter who crossfire was from before because all we need is behavioural analysis? Because hapa's talk about was whether he is a smurf, which we cannot tell right now, due to his lack of posting He was asking if anyone knew if he was a smurf. You didn't say "we don't know", you said "doesn't matter" On November 13 2012 11:16 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 11:14 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 11:11 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 13 2012 11:10 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 11:08 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 13 2012 11:07 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 11:05 marvellosity wrote:On November 13 2012 11:04 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 11:01 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 13 2012 10:55 debears wrote:
[quote]
I'm trying to figure out wtf you are doing coming in out of nowhere and lecturing someone early d1. In fact, lecturing everyone for their scumhunting.
What have you done?
##Unvote
##Vote Hopeless1der DP calls out marv because multiple people were actively lurking and you singling out clarity was unfair. I was also lurking, and DP implies you were "trying your hardest", whereas you have said: On November 13 2012 10:48 debears wrote:
[quote]
Eh. It's early d1. Give me about 10 more hours before the good stuff comes out.
And yeah guys didn't realize it's only 2 hours at this point....
And yeah marv that's why my vote is still on u! Did we catch the scums yet? Did 10 hours pass when I wasnt looking? ^^^^^Can someone tell me if this is how hopeless is? aren't you the same dude who told hapa it didn't matter who crossfire was from before because all we need is behavioural analysis? Because hapa's talk about was whether he is a smurf, which we cannot tell right now, due to his lack of posting He was asking if anyone knew if he was a smurf. You didn't say "we don't know", you said "doesn't matter" Yeah it doesn't matter since looking about behavior is usually a better indicator than meta. We can't know unless he comes out and starts posting like someone the vets recognize. So why discuss it? But you just made a post, with the only question being about someone's meta. On November 13 2012 11:04 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 11:01 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 13 2012 10:55 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 10:53 Hopeless1der wrote:
What good did that question do for town? I'm trying to figure out wtf you are doing coming in out of nowhere and lecturing someone early d1. In fact, lecturing everyone for their scumhunting. What have you done? ##Unvote
##Vote Hopeless1der DP calls out marv because multiple people were actively lurking and you singling out clarity was unfair. I was also lurking, and DP implies you were "trying your hardest", whereas you have said: On November 13 2012 10:48 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 10:46 Hopeless1der wrote:
I think debears is just mucking up the thread hard, but that's apparently just what he does? pretty much what marv said again for myself on the active lurking. Eh. It's early d1. Give me about 10 more hours before the good stuff comes out. And yeah guys didn't realize it's only 2 hours at this point.... And yeah marv that's why my vote is still on u! Did we catch the scums yet? Did 10 hours pass when I wasnt looking? ^^^^^Can someone tell me if this is how hopeless is? Why? Because the question hapa asked was if cross was a smurf. Ffs. That came before Marv's "crossfire is just crossfire" Please keep my posts in context Yes I realize he asked before marv answered. How are your quotes not in context? You answer Hapa by saying it doesn't matter who he is, because reads within the current game are more important. But just now you asked about someone's meta, contradicting yourself. Please tell me where I am wrong.
And this one deserves to be unspoilered:
On November 13 2012 11:24 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 11:21 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 11:16 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 13 2012 11:14 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 11:11 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 13 2012 11:10 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 11:08 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 13 2012 11:07 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 11:05 marvellosity wrote:On November 13 2012 11:04 debears wrote:
[quote]
^^^^^Can someone tell me if this is how hopeless is? aren't you the same dude who told hapa it didn't matter who crossfire was from before because all we need is behavioural analysis? Because hapa's talk about was whether he is a smurf, which we cannot tell right now, due to his lack of posting He was asking if anyone knew if he was a smurf. You didn't say "we don't know", you said "doesn't matter" Yeah it doesn't matter since looking about behavior is usually a better indicator than meta. We can't know unless he comes out and starts posting like someone the vets recognize. So why discuss it? But you just made a post, with the only question being about someone's meta. On November 13 2012 11:04 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 11:01 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 13 2012 10:55 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 10:53 Hopeless1der wrote:
What good did that question do for town? I'm trying to figure out wtf you are doing coming in out of nowhere and lecturing someone early d1. In fact, lecturing everyone for their scumhunting. What have you done? ##Unvote
##Vote Hopeless1der DP calls out marv because multiple people were actively lurking and you singling out clarity was unfair. I was also lurking, and DP implies you were "trying your hardest", whereas you have said: On November 13 2012 10:48 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 10:46 Hopeless1der wrote:
I think debears is just mucking up the thread hard, but that's apparently just what he does? pretty much what marv said again for myself on the active lurking. Eh. It's early d1. Give me about 10 more hours before the good stuff comes out. And yeah guys didn't realize it's only 2 hours at this point.... And yeah marv that's why my vote is still on u! Did we catch the scums yet? Did 10 hours pass when I wasnt looking? ^^^^^Can someone tell me if this is how hopeless is? Why? Because the question hapa asked was if cross was a smurf. Ffs. That came before Marv's "crossfire is just crossfire" Please keep my posts in context Yes I realize he asked before marv answered. How are your quotes not in context? You answer Hapa by saying it doesn't matter who he is, because reads within the current game are more important. But just now you asked about someone's meta, contradicting yourself. Please tell me where I am wrong. Alright, let me spell it out for you 1) Hapa asked if cross was smurf 2) I said there was nothing to discuss about him being smurf, since he hadn't posted much 3) Marv says cross is cross So, my point was that you can't make a basis whether he is indeed a smurf until he posts enough so that vet's recognize him. That makes discussing it early irrelevant. Now, 1) Hopeless comes in lecturing (anti-town) 2) I ask whether it fits his meta 3) You jump on me saying it's a contradiction to what I said It isn't a contradiction. Behavior > meta, especially if players are aware of their meta. Now, if behavior is totally against a player's town meta, and that behavior is scummy, then there are alarms that go off If it is the behaviour compared to different games, that's meta. That's what meta means. Hapa asked if anyone knew if cross was a smurf. Why is there nothing to discuss? If you don't know he's a smurf or not you simply don't answer. If you do you do. Marv answered because he knew, case closed. The part I don't understand is why you say it's not important. No one was talking about deducting who he is, assuming he's a smurf.
Because we see all three(!) scum interacting, with hapa fake-asking if cross is a smurf, and clarity defending that ask.
It's not until later we see some sort of "aggressive" interaction with hapa:
On November 13 2012 17:42 Clarity_nl wrote:Hapa, this still bothers me. I asked you what you thought about SnB's claim and if you thought it was bad for town, and you answered: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:12 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Clarity
Well in a theoretical sense yes, but you remember how well that worked with Cheesecake in Newbie XXX right? It's really not that significant IMO. You compared this to Cheese's claim from NMM XXX even though the situations are completely different. The only reason Cheese claimed was because he thought only VT's knew the VT flavor. So he was trying to claim without alerting scum. SnB just outright claimed VT. After I explain why it's different, you basically give me the same answer: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:25 Hapahauli wrote:On November 13 2012 10:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
It's not like he flavor claimed, thinking others didn't know the flavor. How are those situations alike?
You don't think it's a weird move for a VT to claim VT day 1? No I don't find it weird. I think it's just a pointless comment that can be made by either alignment. Again, see Mr. Cheesecake's "odd" VT claim time in the Newbie game. Him trusting Z-Bo's claim so up-front is a bit strange, but again, I don't know if it's just bad logic or scum knowing who's who. I haven't seen anything alignment indicative from him yet. The other thing I don't really like is the use of "theoretically yes" and "IMO" Whenever I've seen you post you tend to be direct and with conviction, but not this time.
which is the most weak, piddling, gutless attack I've ever seen. And take a look at this following exchange:
On November 14 2012 07:34 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 07:31 Hapahauli wrote:On November 14 2012 07:30 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 14 2012 07:27 Hapahauli wrote:On November 14 2012 07:25 Clarity_nl wrote:
@ Hapa
What I meant was: "I'm having trouble making a case on him"
The reason I said this was because that actually speaks volumes about how he's been playing. 3 pages of filter and nothing to go on, even when you look closely.
I didn't find some "scum gem" in one of his posts and started from there. I had a gut feeling and when I looked into him I found nothing that makes him town or scum, and that's concerning to me.
I did provide analysis. So you're suggesting that he's active lurking or something like that? I'm suggesting that he is blending in. Afterwards it got pointed out that he's also in Acme right now, another active mafia game, and I adjusted my case accordingly. That's fair - didn't really understand your word-choice at first, but I can't blame ya for it I guess it's because I just started the post and ended it. I spellchecked but that's it. So I started out with "Yeah making a case on him isn't working" But I guess I did end up making a case on him, heh. I just wanted to put thoughts out there that weren't about BH, as I felt others were flying under the radar.
What we see in this exchange is, imo, two scum "questioning" each other then building "rapport" with each other in public to appear to scumhunt. Look how genuine they seem together about this.
He defends hapa in several places despite having a "null read" on hapa:
On November 15 2012 06:41 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 06:29 Kickstart wrote:
I'm here and been following the thread. All the cases against hopeless have been pretty solid and convincing so far and he has yet to give a good response, added to the fact that I already had an anti-town read on him before I think he is a good D1 lynch candidate. Hapa I feel has given several good and well reasoned posts recently spelling out his views on everyone, and just generally being pro-town. That being said,
##unvote
##vote: Hopeless1der Please explain in your own words and without referring to other people's posts why you had an anti-town read on him, and explain why you didn't share this read.
On November 15 2012 07:48 Clarity_nl wrote:
I'd like to change this a bit though. Based solely on the fact that hopeless has been posting reads and answering questions clearly and concisely now. Whereas debears is nowhere to be found, his defense is lackluster and his case on hapa seems OMGUS.
I also like this "lets implicitly trust hapa" post:
On November 15 2012 09:55 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 09:55 Hapahauli wrote:On November 15 2012 09:53 Clarity_nl wrote:
I hope everyone is cool with me addressing DP's case after lynchtime, because it'll clog up the thread and we need to consolidate right about now.
@ Hapa
Aren't you saying the opposite of what the log suggests? In the log he says "I guess I should post less" and you tell him to post more anyway. Yet he hasn't. Yeah I spent most of the convo trying to convince him. He never budged. Want me to dig up the rest? No I'll take your word for it, just wanted you to clarify.
Basically, I just don't like the way clarity has interacted seemingly-friendly-like with, had a constant null-read on, yet constantly and aggressively defended hapa. This doesn't seem to me what clarity would do for someone he's "having trouble" getting a read on.
I don't like it, I don't like it one bit. Originally this was gonna be about clarity reacting poorly to my claim, but now it's about clarity's interactions with hapa. I want someone to take a look at clarity's D1 filter also, but to me this looks like scum helping out other scum D1. Of course, I'd like to hear what clarity has to say on this as well-- and neither SnB nor Drojef are off the hook. Thoughts on them to come.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Okay wow that came out as like some horribly formatted hydra of a post. Here's my point: Clarity's interactions with Hapa are scummy and all his reactions to Hapa cases are not consistent with his stated Hapa read or his interactions with Hapa. Especially his reaction to hapa getting logs, debars' early suspicions of hapa, and my suggestion of a last minute hapa wagon.
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Yeah snb played diff d2, cause he was gone if he didnt. Look where he has been now with the pressure off of him again - GONE.
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On November 18 2012 18:18 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 17:59 Djodref wrote:
@ debears
I disagree, it could be a good strategy for a possible SK to retain his night kills until we manage to find the last scum.
What does make you think that a possible SK would kill tonight ? 1) Assuming that the SK isn't hopeless, he could put doubt on hopeless' claim. 2) it's what, 8/7 town to 1 scum/sk or 1 scum and sk 3) The longer the game goes on, the harder it is to conceal a guilty conscience/push your agenda as sk/mafia
@ debears
1)That's actually a good point. I don't think that hopeless could be SK even with another kill because he killed Crossfire and that would have been against a SK interest. But I've just realized that there was no way for a SK Hopeless to know for sure that Cross was scum when he decided to kill. By the way, would you yourself doubt Hopeless claim if we have 2 kills again tonight ? I remember that Hopeless was on your radar during D1.
2)That's also a good point. But it depends on the strategy you would choose as a SK. I don't know about it...
3)I disagree with this one because a possible SK would not know who the last scum is better than us. He would have no other thing to do than to scumhunt hard while not killing anyone and hope to survive until lylo. You don't have any guilty conscience if you didn't kill anyone, right  ?
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I've explained my thoughts on last minute shennanigans. I did this when marv tried to jump on cross too, which is not much of a defense I guess since he flipped scum too.
I'm town. That's my defense. I never aggressively defended hapa or cross, I was against emotionally lynching someone.
Read debears' case on hapa, it WAS omgus.
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The fact that hapa seemed genuine in exchanges with me does not make me scum, it's a dumb point.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On November 18 2012 18:50 Kickstart wrote:
Yeah snb played diff d2, cause he was gone if he didnt. Look where he has been now with the pressure off of him again - GONE.
Wow he really bailed hard as soon as iamp started asking him about his dota. what is the deal snb
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Blazing, your case is rather long with a lot of weak points that you feel, add up to a strong point. Please point out the things you want me to respond to.that I haven't yet.
Is it weird that I took hapa's word that he didn't forge or misinterpret a skype chatlog?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
It's a little weird, but it's not necessarily scummy. Consider it a supporting point rather than a crucial one.
Mostly I don't like the way you shut down my hapa discussion close to the lynch deadline, or the fact that your response to every hapa case anyone made was to disagree with it, despite your occasional interactions with him that questioned him and you never giving an explicit townread on him. It seems like you were going to the mat for your godfather.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Yeah, that's probably the core of it. There's a lot of little things but honestly a lot of people have a lot of little things. The crux of the argument is that you defend him all the time and it's not super clear why. I guess the reasons are: debears seemed like an OMGUS and I was too close to the deadline and you dislike shennannies. I'm gonna wait to see what other people have to say on this-- some have issues with your D2 play, which I have not examined in depth.
For now, I'm looking at SnB and Dro, who I consider the top 2 lynchables for tomorrow.
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I mean, is there a defense to that point that I could make that's not wifom?
Debears' case WAS omgus. I wasn't defending debears when it came to the "is cross smurf?" I was attacking debears.
I don't like last minute shenanigans.
Both townies that have died so far had a strong town read on me.
WIFOM: + Show Spoiler +Why would I kill marv if I'm scum? If you're interested, look up the QT of my last scum game (I was scum). I asked my coach if I should kill the one person defending me to make some kind of super wifom defense, and my coach said: don't be an idiot, and I was like "yeah, that was a dumb idea, you're right"
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
As a final note on clarity before I move on, I want someone else specifically to look at his interaction with hapa. In theory scum-scum interaction in thread should seem "forced" rather than natural, but I'm not good at judging this. It looks forced to me but a lot of things look forced. "oh but blazinghand are you waffling" no dude i'm not waffling, I just want a second set of eyes on this god fuck
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
um, you kill marv cause he's a good nk. assuming he's not scum or scummy enough to actually lynch, it's fairly reasonable to expect scum to kill marv N1 or N2. Any time you let marv live to D3 as town he wins. Hapahauli knows this better than anyone and I'm sure he impressed it into crossfire and the other scum-mate early in the game. I bet he said something like this:
"the two sexiest players in this game besides myself are marv and bh. unless something weird happens, kill them first because they are sexy as hell, they attract women and get hit on in bars and everything. I'm seriously kinda gay for them, to be honest, they're just so hot. they probably have big penises, though I bet BH's is substantially larger and more manly"
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
In retrospect I should have saved Marv N1. Yes, Marv is probably jizzing himself in the obs qt hearing me say this, but it's not like it would have made a difference dude I was RBed anyways
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Yeah, that's fair. Never mind.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
yeah i have a pretty large penis i'm glad we agree
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Your face is a large penis
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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@ Clarity
Did you send some PM to Hapa for coaching when you were scum in our last newbie game ?
Keir was with you in the scum QT but he joined later on iirc.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/kzSgc.jpg)
EPT
