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On November 04 2012 09:44 Rad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 08:58 debears wrote:@RadHow about you read before jumping on me On November 04 2012 02:42 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:39 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:31 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:30 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:27 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:26 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:20 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:16 Rad wrote:
[quote]
That's quite a lot of work you're asking from him and doesn't really help town much, does it? It's all going to be subjective at that point, he might say "this is fluff" and you can just argue that it's not. If we want to determine how much fluff you've given so far, we can check your filter and determine for ourselves. Give me a percentage of fluff in my filter then. If your going to accuse me of something, at least make is specific. This "you're posting so much fluff" is doing nothing. That's your best reasoning on me so far. What good does this percentage do except make some arbitrary point to argue about endlessly? "50% fluff, scum!!!" "only 25% fluff, clearly not a scum tell!" I'm trying to figure out what you expect to come from such a number. If you're scum and you want alsn to waste time coming up with this percentage, clearly you don't think it'll be damning. Nothing to come out of this number except WIFOM on both sides of the argument. Stop bitching and just give me a damn percentage. Holy shit. I'm not gonna freak out. I already admitted I had fluff Answer the question about what good can come from coming up with a percentage. So I know where my fluff rating stands. So I can determine whether you are being genuine or not based on what I feel Your "fluff rating"? O.o Anyway, my issues were with your reasoning for wanting alsn to spend time doing something that doesn't help town at all. If you could think of reasons why it would help town, great, I was hoping to hear them from you, but you're stuck on just pushing the wasting of time to happen. Get on Alsn if you really want this huge waste of time to happen, not me (I wasn't the one pushing the fluff idea on you), but if you don't give a good answer as to why your "fluff rating" matters to town, I'll consider this you just pushing people to waste time. Again, as I stated before, if you're scum, you clearly don't think your fluff percentage will be a bad thing against you, so it's worthless to even look up at this point. Because I'm town and I'm trying to figure out who's scum. Attacking someone without specific reasoning means you can back out on your argument easier later. Saying "you're posting a lot of fluff" is a very ambigious statement. Why don't you want to just give me a percentage? It's a very simple request. Off the top of your head On November 04 2012 02:46 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:44 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 04 2012 02:42 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:39 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:31 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:30 Rad wrote:On November 04 2012 02:27 debears wrote:On November 04 2012 02:26 Rad wrote:
[quote]
What good does this percentage do except make some arbitrary point to argue about endlessly?
"50% fluff, scum!!!"
"only 25% fluff, clearly not a scum tell!"
I'm trying to figure out what you expect to come from such a number.
If you're scum and you want alsn to waste time coming up with this percentage, clearly you don't think it'll be damning. Nothing to come out of this number except WIFOM on both sides of the argument. Stop bitching and just give me a damn percentage. Holy shit. I'm not gonna freak out. I already admitted I had fluff Answer the question about what good can come from coming up with a percentage. So I know where my fluff rating stands. So I can determine whether you are being genuine or not based on what I feel Your "fluff rating"? O.o Anyway, my issues were with your reasoning for wanting alsn to spend time doing something that doesn't help town at all. If you could think of reasons why it would help town, great, I was hoping to hear them from you, but you're stuck on just pushing the wasting of time to happen. Get on Alsn if you really want this huge waste of time to happen, not me (I wasn't the one pushing the fluff idea on you), but if you don't give a good answer as to why your "fluff rating" matters to town, I'll consider this you just pushing people to waste time. Again, as I stated before, if you're scum, you clearly don't think your fluff percentage will be a bad thing against you, so it's worthless to even look up at this point. Because I'm town and I'm trying to figure out who's scum. Attacking someone without specific reasoning means you can back out on your argument easier later. Saying "you're posting a lot of fluff" is a very ambigious statement. Why don't you want to just give me a percentage? It's a very simple request. Off the top of your head Well I'm glad you cleared that up. Anyway, you want your number so badly? 35% fluff. Can we move on now? I feel like we reversed 12 hours and we're talking about Cheese's joke. Ok. Finally. I have 65% content in a large filter according to you, which arguably is more contribution to the thread than most. This is why the fluff argument is invalid. See my point Rad? That is all. Now, scumhunting coming You think I missed this before, but I didn't. It's an invalid point for me. I don't care how much fluff/content you have. It hasn't been a concern of mine. My concern was that there's no town motivation to make another person waste time going through your posts. Only scum motivation. You're claiming there's a town motivation to help point out that your 65% is useful content, but who the hell cares? The fluff argument wasn't going anywhere, it didn't have any potential to get you lynched at that point. You wanted alsn to spend his time reading through your filters, separating fluff from good content and coming up with a percentage just so you could make that point?! If you're town, why would you want that instead of him focusing on hunting down scum? If you're scum, I GET IT. You wanted him to waste his time. You could have just as easily come out and said it if you really thought it defended you against his fluff argument.
When someone discredits me for a bullshit reason, I will defend myself and straighten the point. You say the fluff argument wasn't going anywhere, except that others like Alsn agreed with it. CC went so far to apologize about his fluff. Sylver's argument convinced enough people at that point that I needed to address it.
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On November 04 2012 10:07 Obzy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 07:59 sylverfyre wrote:
@Obzy Why am I scummy to you? Do you have your own arguments, or are you sheeping onto debears? You've said three times that I look bad, but you haven't given any of your own reasons. Looks like sheeping to me.
Do you really want me to go through the whole thread and pick out all the times that debears chain-posted oneliners? I think it's a waste of time. He's done it, he's not really doing it anymore, I'm satisfied as far as that is concerned. If you're so interested, look for yourself.
Shit, if I'm your only scum read, why aren't you putting pressure on me? You entered the thread and immediately voted debears with reasoning that I wasn't sure about (disagreement with the parts of the filter that were meaningless fluff), and later unvoted upon being challenged - given how resistant a lot of people are to voting, unvoting due to pressure seemed out of place. I'm wary of putting pressure on you because I don't want to be wrong while feeling uncertain. If I'm going to be wrong, I want to at least have conviction in my reads, instead of guessing. If I thought that you were scum, rather than looking scummy and worth thinking about, I would have voted. If that makes any sense :0
@obsy
Who do find suspicious at this point?
Also, if you were to name two people that are the best lynch candidates, who are they right now?
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On November 04 2012 10:22 Obzy wrote:
If I had to pick two people right this instant because the lynch is happening in two minutes, I would at least pick da0ud due to the fact he hasn't said much. I'm expecting him to say more over the next 23? ish hours, though. I want to see what he thinks before talking about lynching a lurker.
(That isn't the case, luckily.)
I've been suspicious of Sylver because he backed off under pressure. Why? If he wasn't willing to follow through, why did he vote? I'm worried about voting at all because I don't want to get it wrong and feel dumb. With so little conviction behind an accusation, it seemed like he was voting for you because it wouldn't be exceptionally controversial... if that makes sense? I may be misremembering, I don't want to reread the thread yet again at this moment lol >.<; Just was my gut feeling upon reading his original post.
I've got misgivings with regards to Mr. CC, but he's answered that, somewhat.
I think the argument between Rad and you(db) is a little... Hm. I don't know what to think of it, since it's largely revolving around a set of questions aimed towards myself. It's hard to think about it impartially, and it doesn't help that I think you're both town. Sort of unexpected for you two to argue.
Very well. I would say both are among my top candidates.
My main point on the 180 was that it was not a genuine reaction imo (it also didn't feel like an original idea from him but that's something that input from everyone will tell me more about).
1)It was a sudden 180 when compared to his earlier posts about what I had said. Also, it took him a few hours to suddenly flip out like that.
2) For town, suspicions usually don't suddenly change like that after your reaction was different earlier, because it's easier to stick with a gut feeling.
3) Mafia, however, have to search for things to call people out on. Usually, a mafia has to look back to find something to use since
a) it's hard to think on the spot whether a post would sound scummy from a town perspective
b) mafia have to determine whether pointing out something scummy will fill their agenda
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@Dau0d
Nice. We can have some fun now 
What input do you have on the my cases on Sylver and Rad?
What input do you have on other cases?
Who are your top scumreads and lynch candidates right now?
Also, will you be here for lynch? If not, what is the closest time before lynch you will be here?
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Um I think it's 9 KST.
It's 8 PM CST for me. Which is 3:30 hours before now
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@Djo and Dau0d
Has Sylver done anything to to make you think he is town?
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@Djo
Has clarity actually brought up anything original on anyone (not counting Dau0d)?
@dau0d
On sylver, the fact that he said townies showing dedication, and I'm one of them, showing the most dedication, and he votes me is the reason why I still find it suspicious. Townies is much different than the town or everyone.
My first 3 points on Rad revolved about him just chiming in on stuff that was easy to do so on. His 180 is by far the strongest point though in my case.
Idk if you looked at all my posts on the % thing. In essence, the points boil down to this.
On November 04 2012 09:03 debears wrote:
ebwop ninja'd
Let me try to state it to where you understand
1) You (slyverfyre) accused me of too much fluff without thinking of the content
2) Although there was fluff in my filter, it was a large filter that contained content
3) Thus, I wanted you to do that so you could see that there was plenty of content in my filter
Got it?
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##Unvote
@Djo
My problem with Clarity is that I don't feel that Rad or Sylverfyre have scumhunted sufficiently either. And the Rad 180 on me gives me him as my strongest scumread atm.
Your strongest point may be the non-committal and scumhunting part. I'll look over him more and tell ya if I find anything.
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@Dau0d
What are your thoughts on Obsy?
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@Djo
Reading over Clarity's filter, I see what you mean. His posts are talking about general stuff. He asks a few questions but doesn't pursue them.
If I recall correctly, he was much more aggressive day 1 last game, seeing as he was keying on me and I actually wanted to nk him them. His post of null reads is something that scum like to do (although newbies too).
Fortunately, we have about another 19 hours or so before lynch to see if any of the three out of Rad, Sylver, and Clarity do some unique/original scumhunting
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On November 04 2012 14:44 Djodref wrote:@ debearsI have doubts regarding sylverfire being scum because it would have been very ballsy for a mafia player to open with a post like this. He was sure to stand out by using his vote as a stronger FoS on you. Also slips are not that indicative Clarity, on the other hand, makes sure to not stand out. He didn't follow up Cheese even though this one didn't answer his question, I didn't feel pressure from him in Alsn direction or in my direction. He has not done anything original apart from nit-picking some sentences here and there. I have to check Rad's filter but I can understand where he stands right now because of last game.
The ballsy part is WIFOM. Also, who is a better person to attack than the most active player? Realistically, there's almost no chance of lynching the most active player d1. If you target the most active player, people think "oh, original scumhunting" and then, when you vote someone else, people say "oh, his top scumread isn't getting lynched so it's ok he switched his vote".
Know what I'm saying?
Anyways, him attacking me is a null tell. His reasoning, imo, was suspect, which is what really matters
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Dau0d you here? I have a good candidate. Will post in a second
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Hey guys, I believe Clarity is scum
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16787463
First, look at Djo's case about Clarity's
- non committal attitude
- blending in
- lack of scumhunting
I would like to add two things to that.
1) Scumhunting Method
Clarity's scumhunting method for day 1 appears to be looking for people who don't answer questions. Why is this a scum favored strategy? It's an easy way to scumhunt. You don't have to read for changes in behavior/motivations. Also, if everyone answers the questions, then you can say "oh, idk who is scum cuz all my questions were answered"
Example of what I mean
On November 04 2012 17:08 Clarity_nl wrote:
All the answers I got were sufficient. Hell, your answer had an entire case on sylver attached to it. Maybe I should be pushing people harder. I feel like there are plenty of people already doing that though.
My top scrumreads at the time were you and Alsn, Alsn wasn't around at all and you were already being pushed by others.
I was just reading, and as I said I will end up posting at least a solid case today, you can tell me if my information gathering has been weak at that point.
2) Contradiction to his scumhunting views
On November 04 2012 17:20 Clarity_nl wrote:
Top 3 choices in my eyes are Debears, Sylver and you.
As for people who haven't answered my questions: Alsn, Cheese, Sylver.
In this post, clarity names 3 top scumreads. He has no reasoning. Not only that he acknowledges that 3 people haven't answered his questions. Now let's look at what he said about people who don't answer his questions.
On November 04 2012 16:54 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 16:48 Djodref wrote:
@ Clarity
A few people never answered your questions from the list. Why do you not push them as well ? Because I felt it would go along nicely with any cases I would make. If you "miss" a question asked to you that's super scummy because town reads and re-reads a lot. Scum just sorta play.. Because they don't need extra information[.
and this
On November 03 2012 18:43 Clarity_nl wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 03 2012 16:06 Obzy wrote:
@Cheese
>:l The no newb cards comment seems specifically aimed at me. Not really a fan. I'm not wholly sure why he dropped his argument against debears so quickly - pointing out previous meta, etc, and then it just absolutely falls off the face of the planet. Why? (I disagree with this statement, by the way:
I don't think it's directed at you specifically, but it's interesting that you think it is. The reason Cheese said to not drop the newbie card is because it's not town behavior. When you are town you want people to believe you, if you come out of the gate saying you're awful and no one should listen to you then that's anti-town. It also prevents scum from using "omg sorry I'm just new!", the less excuses scum have available the better for town. My reads at this point in time: Obzy: Leaning slightly town. He hasn't quite come out of his shell yet but he seems genuinly interested in discussion and progressing. @ ObzyDo you think you can get over this "I'm new" thing and give us the best reads you've got? Instead of posting something that's obvious to everyone perhaps post something that stands out to you. _ Rad: Null. He's being more careful than last game, lurking a bit more. He mentioned he would be more careful, but not in pregame, he did this after the role PMs were sent. He also seems really invested in helping Obzy out as he's the newest, the only one here who wasn't in XXIX. @ RadWhy the interest in Obzy? Are you going to use MLG as an excuse at any point this weekend? _ Alsn: Leaning slightly scum, very little info about him though. He opened super aggressive this game, which is the opposite of how he played in the majority of XXIX. Perhaps the only reason he snapped at debears so hard is because debears said On November 03 2012 10:04 debears wrote:
If I'm not here for lynch, its irl conflicts 99% of the time. Don't pull an Alsn @ AlsnWhy the change in behavior from last game? What do you think of debears at this point? _ Mr Cheesecake: Null. He went SUPER defensive when he was called out about making a ton of jokes, but that discussion got blown way out of proportion. The fact that he's acting more like the way he was in mafia QT XXIX than in the actual XXIX thread is indicative of town. @ CheeseYou did have some jokes in the XXIX thread. Can you tell us if these were jokes for the sake of jokes or if you used them to push a scum agenda? An argument can be made for both. _ Djodref: Leaning slightly scum, He was obsessed with policy. Everyone was ready to move on but he kept mentioning it over and over. He's also the person that blew up the whole *Cheese's scum joke* thing, which bogged us down for a couple of pages. @ Djodref If you had to lynch someone right now, would it be da0ud or someone else? _ Debears: Null. Regardless of if he's scum or town, he is getting the ball rolling which is good for us. Problem is... that was what he was doing in XXIX as well and he was scum in that. Older games suggest this is simply his meta so there is no read to be made about his opening. What I'm curious about is if he's going to pull a vanishing act in D2 / D3 again. @ DebearsWhat's your ready on Obzy? _ Sylverfire: Null. Only have 3 real posts to read him on. He opened really aggressive onto debears, even though he's keeping the ball rolling, an odd choice. He showed up way late but Rad pointed out that he is sticking to the same schedule he's had in previous games. @ SylverfireYou've only shared your read on debears, is there anything else that stands out to you? _ So with all that said, I only have two slight scumreads on Alsn and Djo, so I hope they defend themselves as soon as possible. Even if we end up lynching da0ud for lurking, currently with 0 posts, we can at least gather as much information as possible Hopefully this gets some discussion going, please comment on as much as possible in my post and point out any flaws.
It's a contradiction, and a contradiction in a mafia oriented way. His scumhunting method is a way to avoid actually having to scumhunt, then he doesn't even use it when he gives his top scumreads
3) Avoiding Making Cases
Throughout d1, Clarity has repeatedly avoided making cases, stating they'll come sometime in the last 24 hours.
On November 03 2012 21:39 Clarity_nl wrote:
My two weak scumreads are still you and Alsn, but that's what they are... weak.
My post is simply to gather as much info as possible. I will end up making a case before the day is over, but I figured giving this thread a good kick would help.
Why is clarity having such a hard time making cases? As town, you would be naturally suspicious of everyone. Yet, Clarity is having trouble. Who tend to have trouble making cases? Scum, since they know that their targets for lynch are town.
4) Taking the Backseat
Also, notice how he wants to take a backseat this game. Refer to the example quote before. "Other people are already pushing enough as it is". That is not a townie mindset at all.
The meta - Clarity's scumhunting attitude is way different than his last game as town. Here's an example post
On October 26 2012 06:43 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 01:22 Dandel Ion wrote:On October 26 2012 01:20 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 26 2012 01:15 Dandel Ion wrote:
As I get Ninja'd, a wild Clarity appears. Will be active from now on, just didn't have it in the back of my head to check TL a lot. Now that the game has started I will basically be checking as much as possible. Well, I'm sure you have more thoughts than just a FoS on debears for "advocating chaos" So, how about you present those for now. I think "advocating chaos" is actually a good argument on its own, however.... + Show Spoiler [Gathered quotes] +On October 25 2012 10:26 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 10:08 Dandel Ion wrote:On October 25 2012 10:02 Inigmaticalism wrote:For lurking I think it seems even more of an issue in Newbie games than regular games because too many lurkers results in mafia wins most of the time in the Newbie games I looked at. That said, if we get any confirmed mafia I'll always vote confirmed mafias over suspicious lurkers. Btw Im a noob ...  That goes without saying. Having a confirmed scum can be hard though.. And is next to impossible day 1 (since no possible DT checks) unless there is a serious slip. That is why policy lynches day 1 can end up being a necessity. That said, I'm going to sleep. See you in a few hours. What are you saying here exactly? Policy lynches are by no means a necessity. If we are confident and push reads, like dp did last game, then the scum will show. Why do you lack the confidence of catching scum d1?FOS dandelBtw guys officially postjng from phone for rest of night. Tell me if something gets messes up and u can't read On October 25 2012 11:39 debears wrote:
I might be. But, consider this. How did that slip from kush come about? Darthpunks heavy pressure.....duh. policy lynches, on the other hand, are usually caused by passivity or something like a claim. Besides, its fairly easy to discuss policy lynches. Its not easy to be confident. I learned my mistake last game. I didn't stick to a read til the SDM case. I basically said screw it and went with it. Where did that confidence get me? On October 25 2012 13:15 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 12:00 Rad wrote:On October 25 2012 11:39 debears wrote:
I might be. But, consider this. How did that slip from kush come about? Darthpunks heavy pressure.....duh. policy lynches, on the other hand, are usually caused by passivity or something like a claim. Besides, its fairly easy to discuss policy lynches. Its not easy to be confident. I learned my mistake last game. I didn't stick to a read til the SDM case. I basically said screw it and went with it. Where did that confidence get me? You're being especially confusing right now, at least for me. Dan basically said sure, if we have a confirmed mafia d1 (which he claims would be difficult without a major slip), lynch, otherwise it might be necessary to policy lynch. This seems reasonable. Your statement, however, is extremely confusing. Without knowing your previous game in depth, none of what I quoted above means anything. Can you please explain more briefly/clearly "where your confidence got you"? Also, what does your previous confidence have to do with any potential scenario for a d1 lynch? Ok this phone posting iw hard. Forgive th disorganization. Confidence has everything to do with d1. If everyone is confident and pushes cases, then scum will be forced to do the same. That is the key. We need to force scumcto contribute early My confidence led to me making a game winning case on arguably the most townie looking player (who was the last scum) On October 25 2012 13:18 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 12:53 Djodref wrote:On October 25 2012 10:30 debears wrote:On October 25 2012 09:52 Djodref wrote:On October 25 2012 09:47 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
@ "Uncle" Dan
I am of the opinion that inactive players are a good candidate for lynching. There is too much mystery involved with someone whose only contribution to the thread is nonexistent.
In regards to the noobie-card policy: I have to say that claiming inexperience is a terrible defense against any accusation. Djo in the last newbie game made several references to him being a noob (and being town), and it only served to make him seem suspicious to other players.
You are sure taking lurker policy lynch seriously. Would you explain us at which point suspicious players become better lynch candidates than inactive players ? Djo, why did you suddenly drop this after cheesecake responded? Also, why did you interpret his post as taking lurker policy "so seriously" when he was respondjng to a question? @debearsThe part I've bolded in Cheese's post was a comment about dandel's post you have picked on. It was not related to the part where he was answering your questions. He didn't mention any other good candidates for lynching than inactive players so I thought he wanted to lynch based on lurker policy lynch today. But he has clarified his position since then. Very well djo. I found the wording of seriously strong for your post. Can you clarify why you have a sudden 180 on confidence on day 1 from your last game as town? On October 25 2012 13:24 debears wrote:
Rad,
I understand what you're saying. However, you are misinterpretjng my words. I'm not saying go on a tunneling spree. I'm saying have the confidence to make a case on anyone and pursue that case until you find that person town or someone else more scummy On October 25 2012 13:33 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 13:27 Rad wrote:On October 25 2012 13:23 Djodref wrote:
I've realized that in my last newbie game. Not being confident led me to write wish-washy posts and it is not good for general town mentality.
Also I like DarthPunk style with his early heavy pressure. Pretty newbie scums can slip very easy, kush or not kush.
Plus I had some difficulties in my last mafia games to post properly when people where directly pressure me. Why even think about artificial confidence though? Why is the concept of confidence even something to be considered beyond "if you're confident, push your case!" That's all confidence is good for. Artificial confidence does nothing. I get the point of "try to be more confident in your reads" or something to that extent, but I don't understand what's good about having confidence in pushing for a d1 scum lynch instead of lynching a lurker. We should do whatever we think is best at that point, not necessarily 1 thing or the other. Why are you so focused on lynching a lurker over a scumread right now imo lurker lynches are last resorts to scumreads. If a lurker has a scumread, that's a bonus. Why do you keep pressing this "artificial confidence" thing when newbie games are notorious for lurking (usually caused by fear/lack of confidence) and lack of confidence? On October 25 2012 13:45 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 13:27 Rad wrote:On October 25 2012 13:23 Djodref wrote:
I've realized that in my last newbie game. Not being confident led me to write wish-washy posts and it is not good for general town mentality.
Also I like DarthPunk style with his early heavy pressure. Pretty newbie scums can slip very easy, kush or not kush.
Plus I had some difficulties in my last mafia games to post properly when people where directly pressure me. Why even think about artificial confidence though? Why is the concept of confidence even something to be considered beyond "if you're confident, push your case!" That's all confidence is good for. Artificial confidence does nothing. I ge t the point of "try to be more confident in your reads" or something to that extent, but I don't understand what's good about having confidence in pushing for a d1 scum lynch instead of lynching a lurker. We should do whatever we think is best at that point, not necessarily 1 thing or the other. That is the statement I'm talking about. Am i missing something here? Can someone help me out? You don't understand having confidence to pusb d1 scum reads over lurkers?
What do scum want? Easy lynchs. Who are easy lynches? Lurkers.FOS Rad On October 25 2012 13:48 debears wrote:
Actually, that's a scumslip
##Vote Rad "If we are confident and push reads, like dp did last game, then the scum will show. Why do you lack the confidence of catching scum d1?" First mention of the term confident"Its not easy to be confident. I learned my mistake last game. I didn't stick to a read til the SDM case. I basically said screw it and went with it. Where did that confidence get me?" Second, trying to enforce that being confident is a good thing"My confidence led to me making a game winning case on arguably the most townie looking player (who was the last scum)" Same story"Can you clarify why you have a sudden 180 on confidence on day 1 from your last game as town?" Someone "lacks confidence", better ask insinuating questions"have the confidence to make a case on anyone and pursue that case until you find that person town or someone else more scummy" Yeah, confidence!"newbie games are notorious for lurking (usually caused by fear/lack of confidence) and lack of confidence?" Guys, you just don't get it, be confident!"You don't understand having confidence to pusb d1 scum reads over lurkers? What do scum want? Easy lynchs. Who are easy lynches? Lurkers. Actually, that's a scumslip ##Vote Rad" Using backwards logic, followed by casting his vote, which he later withdrew without explaining
It's easy to retort: What do townies want? Active town. What doesn't contribute to an active town? Lurkers.
We never see him use the word confident again after he casts his voteShow nested quote +On October 26 2012 01:21 debears wrote:
Ok. But what individually makes us stand out as scum?
I'm going to reread the thread a couple of times tonight and figure this all out.
##Unvote No explanation, nothing, just withdraws his vote that he so casually cast. The whole confidence thing is weird to me. He has a thematic history of posting in this thread, as if it's planned out. If he planned it out as scum, his actions make sense. Trying to appeal to your emotions, trying to turn the word confidence into his own little buzzword. If he planned it out as town, actually trying to help the town think critically and relentless towards possible scum, why would he vote for Rad, who has made decent points and questioned people? Let me ask everyone this: Who is more likely to plan out how they will behave day 1, town or scum?
Look at how he's willing to actually analyze actions over the whole day 1 last game, yet this game he has done NOTHING of the sort. He hasn't tunneled anyone either, like he tunneled me last game. That, combine with his "answer questions or you're scummy" approach is very different play from his town self.
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@Dau0d
In the clarity case, the most important part is point 1 and 2. Points 3 and 4 go along with it.
Also, on point 4, meta is meta and can change. But does personality change? You gotta remember. Clarity was the one modkilled for sending out a pm eager to discuss reads, yet he hasn't really been discussing reads all game
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On November 05 2012 00:30 da0ud wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 00:21 debears wrote:
@Dau0d
In the clarity case, the most important part is point 1 and 2. Points 3 and 4 go along with it.
Also, on point 4, meta is meta and can change. But does personality change? You gotta remember. Clarity was the one modkilled for sending out a pm eager to discuss reads, yet he hasn't really been discussing reads all game True, I had forgotten he got modkilled last time for PMing on his reads, I was the one getting back his roll as Jailkeeper from VT ^^
Wait he was jk last game?
So as the most import blue, he was outgoing with his arguments (making me want to nk him last game), yet this game showing complete lack of being aggressive?
- If he is blue this game, his sudden change would be weird
- if he was townie, a less important role, he would most likely be more aggressive (fear less of being nked)
- if he was mafia, he would most likely be more passive
These are more general heuristics (I think that's the right word +1 for Ver lol) than concrete. But honestly I don't see someone being so much less aggressive as townie after being aggressive with the most important blue role
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ebwop
add my last post to my case on clarity
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@CC
While Djo has said some wtf kind of things, he did so last game. He has been pretty active, and he made the case on clarity first, and his points are valid, which means he shares a similar line of thinking as me.
Also, his early d1 thing about cheese's jokes, while had bad reasoning, can be explained by starting to kickstart the thread (I did the same thing with Alsn)
@Sylver
On November 05 2012 00:38 sylverfyre wrote:
Djo is still making little sense with his plurality lynch strategy. After saying straight up that it's too late to discuss lynch strategy.
I feel like people might be reading into stuff too much on clarity, after forcing a lot of stuff out of him and then rejecting it as a "List" - you're basically cutting him off and being like "your idea is bad don't share that" and then are mystified when he gets quiet. Furthermore, he was active during the part of the day that debears was arguing rather constantly about his "Fluff Percentage" (and appears to even have gotten sidetracked by skimming through and pulling a number out, presumably hoping to get debears to drop the pointless argument)
Successfully waste someone's time -> call them scum for not contributing enough? I am really not sure how I feel about that.
Shit, he's not even the only one who iterated through the people he had questions for - so why is he the only one being crucified for it? o.O
I realize he didn't follow through with pressure on his cases (in fact, I pretty much missed the question he asked me until I got around to it by scumhunting at Djo's prod.)
I wish he hadn't left so abruptly though.
Da0ud seems in the same boat. He's on the quiet side, and now he's waiting before making another move.
What is the purpose of this post? You spread suspicions on 3 people, yet refuse to acknowledge the case on clarity. You haven't addressed any specific points on clarity. Your defense on him is weak "reading too much stuff into clarity". Between Dau0d, me, Djo, it's impossible for all 3 of us to be scum. So why are you trying to discredit all 3 people who have said clarity looks scummy without any real evidence and a few short statements?
Did you read the case on Clairty?
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On November 05 2012 00:53 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 00:50 debears wrote:
@CC
While Djo has said some wtf kind of things, he did so last game. He has been pretty active, and he made the case on clarity first, and his points are valid, which means he shares a similar line of thinking as me.
I just find those "wtf things" hard to dismiss, but I kind of have to because, well, it's smileyDjo. The only problem I have with the bolded is that idk if you're scum or not this game, so him sharing the same line of thinking as you could be a very bad thing.
CC, can you direct me to/restate the exact posts you are talking about. I'm looking at Djo as well since it seems him/Clarity is the direction this lynch is heading
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On November 05 2012 01:29 Alsn wrote:
Djod, Clarity said that he was going to sleep, considering he was up until 7 am and then only seemed to sleep for 4 hours if we are to believe what he said yesterday, I don't find it unlikely that he would sleep in the afternoon local time.
That being said, rest assured that I'll be looking at his case in great detail. I'm holding off on making a judgement right now because I actually have a slight town read on him so far and I think you are both exaggerating the importance of your cases against him. Particularly the fact that debears is basing his case in large part on meta on a player who has played 24 hours total of mafia before being modkilled. Or that you seem to be accusing him of blending in, yet nothing he has really said to my eyes jumps out as if he was trying to push a scum agenda. If his only crime was blending in, who are you to say he's blending in on purpose?
Sure, if he later jumps in and votes with bad reasoning, I'll hold it against him, but right now I find both of your cases weak. I'll hold off on elaborating further until he actually shows up however as I don't want to give him any unnecessary help.
The main part of my case is not meta. I've stated that the first two points: his lackluster method of scumhunting, lack of scumhunting, and contradiction to why he finds me, djo, and someone else more scummy than those who haven't answered his questions, as stated by himself. Read my case again
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EPT
