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Djodref
France3332 Posts
Do you mind discussing why I'm suspicious in your eyes. I've just skimmed through your filter and I didn't see you making points against me. I must say that I've skimmed very quickly... @ everyone Nobody is commenting on sylver latest explanation for his slip ? He first said that he meant players and now he is saying that townies was the right one to use. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
1My main goal with the sudden FoS on Cheese was to spark some discussion. I said it was confusing but it was more a pretext. The truth is that I didn't like it. Using sarcasm was not a brillaint idea but agin, I wanted to show that I was trying to spark discussion. 2.It's very important to state your reasons for your vote. Sylverfire failed to explain what he wanted from debears with his vote so I didn t see it as a pressurr vote. It turned out that it was more like a super FoS. I'm not against pressure voting but you have to state clearly what is your goal with it. Voting for casting suspicion upon someone sounds like voting for voting in my opinion. 3. It was me indeed but I don t think we need the policy for this game. The activity level is high and you can vote for anyone if you have a problem. It works better this way I think. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
What I called a pressure vote is when you are trying to change the behavior of the target with your vote. For example, debears had nothing against daoud except for the fact that he was not posting and voted him to make him post. This was purely a pressure vote. I did the same thing last game and I have no problem with this kind of thing when you state it clearly. My problem with sylver vote against debears is that I found the reasons for voting him a little weak if he was voting him because he was suspicious of him. Also he didn't say at first that he wanted debears to stop to post some fluff. He just wanted to cast suspicion on him. So a FoS would have been better. Anyway, he was not clear when casting his vote and that's my main reproach against him. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
It should be clear right now that my goal was to try to spark some discussion. If you find my FoS suspicious, please tell me me what is the mafia motivayion behind it. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
Right now, I'm more concerned by the different explanations that sylverfire has given for his slip than the way he casted his vote on debears. The follow up I was expecting from a town sylver would have been a case on debears but he unvoted and we have nothing new from him so far. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 04 2012 05:56 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Your motivation behind it? To try to show that you were sparking discussion. The thing is it did create some discussion and put me at the center at the attention for some time. Definitively best mafia move ever (this is a sarcasm). | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
Please check the different explanations sylver gave for his slip and comment it. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 04 2012 09:59 Obzy wrote: To clarify- I meant that you're clearly reading the thread actively, but you hadn't really had a tendency to comment on anything except things involving Djo. Active as in, at your computer. Semi-lurking as in, posting enough to not be called out for lurking. It was a bad word choice though. Thanks for the reads, that's what I was looking for. On November 04 2012 09:59 Obzy wrote: To clarify- I meant that you're clearly reading the thread actively, but you hadn't really had a tendency to comment on anything except things involving Djo. Active as in, at your computer. Semi-lurking as in, posting enough to not be called out for lurking. It was a bad word choice though. Thanks for the reads, that's what I was looking for. @ Cheesecake I think Obzy has just accused you of active lurking. What do you have to respond to that ? | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 04 2012 12:20 da0ud wrote: I am just waking up and I still have 8 pages to read and I don't like that post. Look at the timestamp on my timezone and see why I am not active while you guys at the opposite side of earth are all awake and posting 10 messages a minute. Be sure I would love to be awake at the same time as you guys. @ daoud The timestamps are all converted in local time for the users. Anyway, TL displays the time in South Korea (KST) in his banner so they can use it if they want to know what time it is in Hong Kong. My guess is KST minus 1 hour, am I right ? | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 04 2012 05:40 Djodref wrote: @ Rad 1My main goal with the sudden FoS on Cheese was to spark some discussion. I said it was confusing but it was more a pretext. The truth is that I didn't like it.Using sarcasm was not a brilliant idea but again, I wanted to show that I was trying to spark discussion. 2.It's very important to state your reasons for your vote. Sylverfire failed to explain what he wanted from debears with his vote so I didn't see it as a pressure vote. It turned out that it was more like a super FoS. I'm not against pressure voting but you have to state clearly what is your goal with it. Voting for casting suspicion upon someone sounds like voting for voting in my opinion. 3. It was me indeed but I don t think we need the policy for this game. The activity level is high and you can vote for anyone if you have a problem. It works better this way I think. I'll try to explain what I meant with the sentence in font bold because I think you guys are misinterpreting it. First of all, please remember that, at the time I drop my bomb, there is not much to discuss in the thread. So I spontaneously and stupidly attacked someone head on for something that I didn't like. Then I felt that it was going to fire back at me, so I wanted you to understand why I dropped a FoS like that without plainly saying that my goal was to spark discussion, otherwise it wouldn't have happened imo. So I've used this question "Would you prefer me to discuss how we should use plurality lynch ?" as a sarcasm to show (or imply if you prefer) that my goal was to spark discussion. And please judge me on my actions and not on my wording. I wanted to say "By using sarcasm, I wanted to hint at the fact that my sudden FoS was sparkin discussion" "Using sarcasm was not a brilliant idea, but I was implying that I wanted to spark discussion" Is it clear now ? By the way, if you have still problems with that, please tell me what could be the mafia motivations for dropping the sudden FoS in the first place ? | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
I'm starting to have some serious concerns in your regard. Do you see the similarity between this + Show Spoiler + On October 26 2012 03:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: <snip> Also, why would you say this, Djodref? Everybody's "principal concern" is to find mafia. Sort of like that "why are you afraid of seeming suspicious" question -- the answer is self explanatory. I fail to see a point here. That's what I have to say concerning Djodref atm, and my FoS still applies. <snip> On November 04 2012 05:46 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Hmm... @Rad What do you think about that underlined portion right there? The similarity is nit-picking some sentences in my post to interpret them at your convenience to make me looking scummy. I've been making some decent posts (in my opinion) to explain you the difference I see between voting to pressure someone or voting because you are suspicious of someone and you have made no comments against them. I've got the feeling that you don't want to discuss with me and just want to make me looking suspicious. Very similar to what happened last game. I'll tell you right now, you are not going to push a mislynch on me in this game. If you are town, remove your confirmation biased glasses and start to discuss with me. I've been defending myself but it is no use if you dismiss my posts. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
I might have been too quick with my judgement on you. You explanations make sense somehow even if I don't like how you explained your slip. I would be glad to change my vote if you were able to present a good case against someone  And, yes, I'm using my vote to force him to scumhunt. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 03 2012 11:21 Clarity_nl wrote: It's cause I read your Mafia QT I guess, you're right, in the thread itself you were super serious. So why the change of tone? XXIX is my first mafia game on TL, so it's my first encounter with debears. Maybe debears opens like this in every mafia game regardless? I'll go dig around. Feel free to comment debears. @ Calrity First encounter with debears ? What did you mean to say exactly ? | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
Clarity Have you guys noticed Clarity ? | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
FoS on Clarity incoming | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 04 2012 13:42 Djodref wrote: Clarity Have you guys noticed Clarity ? I'm betting that you didn't really notice him because this guys is sure blending in First of all, I would like to say that Clarity is non-committal with his reads. Please have a look at the different posts in the following spoiler. + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + On November 03 2012 18:43 Clarity_nl wrote: I don't think it's directed at you specifically, but it's interesting that you think it is. The reason Cheese said to not drop the newbie card is because it's not town behavior. When you are town you want people to believe you, if you come out of the gate saying you're awful and no one should listen to you then that's anti-town. It also prevents scum from using "omg sorry I'm just new!", the less excuses scum have available the better for town. My reads at this point in time: Obzy: Leaning slightly town. He hasn't quite come out of his shell yet but he seems genuinly interested in discussion and progressing. @ Obzy Do you think you can get over this "I'm new" thing and give us the best reads you've got? Instead of posting something that's obvious to everyone perhaps post something that stands out to you. _ Rad: Null. He's being more careful than last game, lurking a bit more. He mentioned he would be more careful, but not in pregame, he did this after the role PMs were sent. He also seems really invested in helping Obzy out as he's the newest, the only one here who wasn't in XXIX. @ Rad Why the interest in Obzy? Are you going to use MLG as an excuse at any point this weekend? _ Alsn: Leaning slightly scum, very little info about him though. He opened super aggressive this game, which is the opposite of how he played in the majority of XXIX. Perhaps the only reason he snapped at debears so hard is because debears said @ Alsn Why the change in behavior from last game? What do you think of debears at this point? _ Mr Cheesecake: Null. He went SUPER defensive when he was called out about making a ton of jokes, but that discussion got blown way out of proportion. The fact that he's acting more like the way he was in mafia QT XXIX than in the actual XXIX thread is indicative of town. @ Cheese You did have some jokes in the XXIX thread. Can you tell us if these were jokes for the sake of jokes or if you used them to push a scum agenda? An argument can be made for both. _ Djodref: Leaning slightly scum, He was obsessed with policy. Everyone was ready to move on but he kept mentioning it over and over. He's also the person that blew up the whole *Cheese's scum joke* thing, which bogged us down for a couple of pages. @ Djodref If you had to lynch someone right now, would it be da0ud or someone else? _ Debears: Null. Regardless of if he's scum or town, he is getting the ball rolling which is good for us. Problem is... that was what he was doing in XXIX as well and he was scum in that. Older games suggest this is simply his meta so there is no read to be made about his opening. What I'm curious about is if he's going to pull a vanishing act in D2 / D3 again. @ Debears What's your ready on Obzy? _ Sylverfire: Null. Only have 3 real posts to read him on. He opened really aggressive onto debears, even though he's keeping the ball rolling, an odd choice. He showed up way late but Rad pointed out that he is sticking to the same schedule he's had in previous games. @ Sylverfire You've only shared your read on debears, is there anything else that stands out to you? _ So with all that said, I only have two slight scumreads on Alsn and Djo, so I hope they defend themselves as soon as possible. Even if we end up lynching da0ud for lurking, currently with 0 posts, we can at least gather as much information as possible Hopefully this gets some discussion going, please comment on as much as possible in my post and point out any flaws. Do no avoid answering the questions I addressed to you, it would be a very scummy thing to do. This post is full of null reads or slight reads, it speaks for itself. On November 03 2012 21:39 Clarity_nl wrote: My two weak scumreads are still you and Alsn, but that's what they are... weak. My post is simply to gather as much info as possible. I will end up making a case before the day is over, but I figured giving this thread a good kick would help. Weak scumreads on Alsn on me On November 04 2012 04:38 Clarity_nl wrote: <snip> I am no longer suspect of Alsn, at least not as much. Although he seems to have a hard on for debears and djo he's making decent points and trying to further conversation. Debears... I'm not quite sure. The stubbornness about sylver's post where he said he has a lot of fluff really shouldn't have been that big of a deal, he just couldn't let it go. Maybe Rad is on to something. Drops Alsn and is wishy washy about debears Then Clarity is also using double-standards, he has being reproaching Rad not to scumhunt but have you seen Clarity scumhunting ? You might argue that he has put pressure on daoud but he has conveniently done it while it was Saturday night in Hong Kong. And given daoud lurky habits, it's an easy target to attack. On November 04 2012 05:02 Clarity_nl wrote: Although caution can be a good thing Rad, you should be careful. If you don't have enough information to make a read make sure to get more information. It would be too easy for scum to go: "Ah, I dunno, don't really have any reads" You shouldn't be getting away with this as town. I'm curious as to any cases you might make in the next 24 hours. Clarity has been defensive when I was trying to give him advice after his post with his reads. On November 03 2012 21:17 Djodref wrote: Just a remark for Obsy and Clarity, lists can been seen as a scumtell. I know that newbies love them so it's a null tell for me right now. Let me explain. Making list makes you look like as an active contributor while you are not really committing on any player. From a list post, it's easy to blend in and find some reasons to vote for the possible lynch candidates. And I also think it would be better for you to focus on your scumreads rather than dispatch your attention. If you are town, of course  The point I really don't like in his reaction is the fact that he said that he didn't make a list. On November 03 2012 21:23 Clarity_nl wrote: Where did I make a list? Unless you're talking about my reads on everyone, which I don't see can ever be a bad thing. You are the one who pointed out that it is a plurality lynch, and that we should not focus too deeply on a select few. My "list" forces everyone to comment on it, and perhaps gain insight on others through my observations or sees a flaw in my logic and helps me out by pointing it out. Yeah, I've read that lists are generally a mafia tell, or newbie town, but this is only the case if they do not contribute. Are you saying that my post will not contribute? Regarding the plurality lynch, we have individually to focus on our scum reads but town in general should not focus on only two players. By the way, you have failed to put pressure on me or Alsn, but we were your scum reads. In conclusion FoS Clarity | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 04 2012 13:50 debears wrote: @Djo and Dau0d Has Sylver done anything to to make you think he is town? @ debears At least he tried to defend himself in a reasonable way. I'm waiting real scumhunt from him before changing my vote. The point he has against you + Show Spoiler + On November 04 2012 03:00 sylverfyre wrote: Yes, I did. I couldn't get any reads out of it, but I mentioned it. In my first post: You, on my posting times TL Went down. Delayed me writing up my intro post. Also, it's friday, so I stay up later because I don't have work the following morning. And I was out friday evening. (For reference, I am EDT.) Also, I was DEAD by D2. You have no sample size. Seriously, wild conspiracy theory gets us nowhere. It's scummy to post arguments that have no merit. I'm still attacking you because you continue to flail around with no useful reasons. But these are particularly useless: But it's more on the number of one-liners you post. Like, your entire fucking filter. You constantly post multiple times within 5 minutes of each other. It's just unnecessary. The biggest red flag to me was: If your 30 page filter looks like this, debears, how the is anyone supposed to process it as information? You write twenty sentences per page of filter. That's what I'm complaining about. You can put more than one sentence into a post. Please do, for the sake of the town. Alright, enough about the fluff. I simply have asked a favor. As for the continued Vote on debears: At this point, I'm more concerned about you making up conspiracy theories about me. You OMGUS voted me (not surprising) but you're standing by it for really weird reasons. I'm not the only one calling them weird. Making up weird reasons about me is not getting us anywhere. I am finding it 1% more scummy with each straw you grasp at. Maybe you're overreacting because you're a scum in a bind? I find it strange, and suspicious. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 04 2012 13:52 da0ud wrote: 9 KST is 8 HKT. I start work @ 7.40 so it will be tough for me to be arround. The best I can do is wake up @ 6 instead of 7. However with the pace at which to thread goes I will wake up tomorrow with 10 pages to read and I wont be able to make a constructive vote. I could ninja vote at the last minute but I am not really pro this behaviour. Most likely i will put my vote tonight roughly 9 to 10 hours before lynch and stick to it. On a side note I wont be able to defend myself either if mafia decides to target me during the night as well. This is exactly what happened in the last game. I had announced it before and still got lynched. The deadline is 9am HKT. It is possible for you to catch up wen you arrive at work or are you too busy in the mornings ? | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
I need to take more time to check what happened between you and Rad but, at first glance, you just look like two stubborn guys shouting at each other. I'm more interested in Clarity right now What's your take on him ? | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
I have doubts regarding sylverfire being scum because it would have been very ballsy for a mafia player to open with a post like this. He was sure to stand out by using his vote as a stronger FoS on you. Also slips are not that indicative Clarity, on the other hand, makes sure to not stand out. He didn't follow up Cheese even though this one didn't answer his question, I didn't feel pressure from him in Alsn direction or in my direction. He has not done anything original apart from nit-picking some sentences here and there. I have to check Rad's filter but I can understand where he stands right now because of last game. | ||
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