EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXX - Page 4
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
I did like Clarity's defense overnight, he sounded pretty honest to me. He has addressed calmly all the points against him. Just this slip is too much. He could be blue though, but I would not think he would have been that condescending if blue. I still keep Debears somewhere there on top of the list, but he has been consistent in driving town forward. Yet there is a lot of fluff, useless posts ("ugh mispost", etc.). If he is scum we should be able to find some clues with more pieces of information on people's alignment in the near future. I have a gut feeling on Rad. I will try to put a case on him during D2. If i cannot make a proper case with valid arguments against him, I will let you know why I find him to lay more townie then. | ||
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
On November 06 2012 07:03 Alsn wrote: Ok, just would like to say that I've been looking over Clarity and Djodref today. I feel like Clarity has a good chance of being town. He tried to break up the fight between debears and Rad over the percentage, he made a case against debears at a time where I thought myself that debears might be scum. I don't get the feeling that he's only trying to stay consistent. If he was worried about that I don't think he would have jumped on Cheese for the claim as hard as he did. Since a scum Clarity would have known that Cheese was town, I'd be much more suspicious of him if he chickened out and voted debears in order to stay consistent. Instead he attacked Cheese pretty hard for claiming, something which was sure to bring him a lot of attention seeing as he would have known how the Cheese lynch would end. I'm however not as sure about Djod. He's definitely acting like I would expect a town Djod to act(acting like Clarity has "lost" the game and should just reveal his partner and stuff like that definitely fits with town Djod from XXVIII. I also don't see why he would ask about scum mechanics(framer mechanics, specifically) out in the open if he was scum. Nor why he would attack Cheese(who a scum Djod would know was town) for joking. All those things considered, I find most of his accusations to be really empty, like he's looking for "excuses" to attack someone, rather than actually considering their motives. He attacks sylver for vote pressuring, something which Cheese pointed out and that I commended him for, but I dismissed it later because I was thinking "nah, that's just Djod!". His case against Clarity then accuses clarity of blending in and not following up on his reads. Yet Clarity actually gave pretty convincing answers for why he hadn't done so. He kept saying he was going to make a case in the latter half of D1, he did. He had also stated that well before Djod made his case against him. The latter half of Djod's case against Clarity is seeing ghosts where there are none. He accuses Clarity of denying making a list but the post Djod quotes says nothing of the sort. I'm suspecting maybe there's some confirmation bias shenanigans going on here, but I can see where Cheese was coming from with regards to how hard it is to read Djod. That being said, if there aren't any other scummy looking people tomorrow, Djod is looking like my vote is best placed for now. I haven't yet looked into sylver very much since the beginning half of D1, but we have two days. I'm thinking I might need to look at Obzy next, or possibly Rad as I don't have much other than that I like their posting so far. And I'd also like it if da0ud answered my question from earlier today. With that, I feel like things need to start rolling again before I know for sure who I want to lynch tomorrow. I'm off to sleep, although I can check in after I finish watching the DS9 episode I'm currently watching if anyone wants to know something. Catching up now. I will reply to your question, even though I actually did post the reasons earlier. Ill summarize it for you. I like your thinking here. I would not excuse Clarity for his role claiming and potential PM to Marv before. But Djo seems still very scum to me. Maybe bussing his partner in crime. | ||
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
One first thing that comes to mind since the night kill is Djo's really insisting on pushing for a Clarity lynch. This seems pretty obvious to me as his defense on the role claim is pretty bad. Best example about it is : He says : On November 05 2012 23:26 Clarity_nl wrote: I never claimed VT, I never claimed anything. But right after CC's second role claim he adds : On November 05 2012 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote: I can do that too. I don't wanna pay for no porn man. I don't think that saying that proves anything, can't make an assumption based on the host's behavior. Cheese why did you claim VT? If this is not role claiming ! However I find Rad's position on the subject smarter. He is a clear target, We should stop tunneling him for some time. There is someone else in the scum team (or two other people if Clarity is not). I have not read your filter like I said I would Rad (remember my gut feeling on you), but recently you have looked really town to me, so I am not that concerned Djo, however, I would still like people to look at him closely. Only two things he has been doing is: - tunnel Clarity, hence retaining information to the town, not trying to diversify the targets. - blue hunting as well big time during all N1 and since the beginning of D2. I really believe he could be bussing his mate to gain town credit or just keep the attention on him. | ||
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
On November 06 2012 13:35 Djodref wrote: @ Rad First of all, I'm not hunting for blues. I want information to find scum, that is all. Blues are not going to solve the game for us, we have to do it by ourselves. I don't care if I have to out all the blues while scumhunting if the information I get allows me to find the mafia members. I do not appreciate at all the fact that you are retaining information with the excuse that you want to protect the blues. Anyway, if you are afraid for them, please step up and make some cases, force the mafia to kill you by being dangerous for them (if you are town, that is). If you start your day by doing this + Show Spoiler + On November 06 2012 10:07 Rad wrote: FoS Obzy FoS Djo partial FoS Sylver
Secondly, my arguments are not stupid. If we assume that we have a town Clarity having a scum read on scum Djodref. Then, town Clarity is
Who is still believing in town Clarity ? Rad is... This works as well with scumClarity and scumDjodref. Except that you earn HUGE town credit when he flips scum. | ||
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
What do you think of my latest case against Djo ? | ||
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
On November 06 2012 14:11 Obzy wrote: With regards to Sylverfyre - He said he'd be around for the day post and wasn't, but - that's just more of a note, and has absolutely nothing to do with my voting him. He made noise early in the game about a debears/djo (one of the above) as scum, particularly focusing debears. Looks at a scumteam of CC and debears during the role PM... stuff. Eventually switches his vote onto CC from debears, puts suspicion on Clarity [and db, of course]. It clearly isn't debears. He shows a strong town read on Rad, although I think that's fairly obvious, personally. (And now that I'm refreshing the last page to make sure I'm not missing something, he's shown up and redirects suspicion at Djo because debears flipped town.) I'm really a bit less certain what to think of this lol. If Clarity is town, and da0ud is town, it leaves Djo Sylv.. /shrug. Sylv's not addressing my vote on him at all, still. And apparently he just voted Djo too lol. If Djo/Sylv have a shootout, I'm okay with that at the moment, unless Clarity can be shown [by Rad or Alsn or da0ud, preferably] to have clear mafia signs. @Obzy I have a hard time considering what you say seriously when you keep putting "lol" everywhere. Could you be more assertive ? I feel like you tell your thoughts but don't want to take any real positions. Not very townie behaviour. Push your reads please ! | ||
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
So please, you said you will stop with him for some time and you continue. Move on now that you are happy man. Please look at some other people as well. Rad's gonna look at Alsn. I will look at Rad, because I said I would read his filter and I have not yet. ##Vote Clarity | ||
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
No major conclusion - but I think you are town. You are actually looking more and more town. The way I see it : You started pretty distant, not too much posting, pretty neutral, staying off arguments (Deb/Rad, Deb fluff percentage). Then you actually went for only one real case D1 : Debears, not massively convincing, and you did decide to drop it yourself when people shifted focus. Backing off, more scummy than townie attitude. You remained consistent in your judgment though : Voted CC for not explained himself and the WIFOM defense, before revising your vote and going for your initial read on Debears. We both know we were targeting the wrong guy as well, but still we avoided sheeping and jumping on CC's slip. Since then you are trying to push for more cases, you put pressure on Djodref, Obzy and try to avoid people to blue hunt. I find this very towny attitude because you want to increase the horizon of lynch and potential association. We being narrow minded on one person only (Clarity - than I find scummy myself) when we have roughly 30 more hours to hunt ! | ||
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
On November 06 2012 02:09 Alsn wrote: So, I'd like to start with asking the following questions: @da0ud, you had claimed that you considered Clarity to be your top lynch candidate before going to bed. Yet Clarity switching to Cheesecake over debears made you vote for debears? Why? If you believed Cheese to be innocent, why would you suddenly disregard the fact that your top scum read was trying to push Cheese's lynch? I know that you also considered debears scummy, but what made you choose him? You were the one who was responsible for the debears counter-wagon, why did you pick debears and not Clarity? @Alsn As I said before the end of D1 (when I was going to bed), I wanted to vote someone in my top 3 : in order Clarity > Debears > Djodref. and they were all pushing for a CC lynch.... I said as well I did not want to put my vote yet because Clarity had not started putting his defense on. I wanted to advise based on how good a defense it would be. I did find his defense honorable and stated it (the order is odd : I said first why i want Debears and later why I felt better about Clarity, cause I had to act fast on trying to push a lynch on someone else than CC). On November 05 2012 14:02 da0ud wrote: I feel much better about Clarity after his defense. It looked not so very well organized but pretty sincere. On November 05 2012 09:39 da0ud wrote: I am reluctant to vote on CC. I want to vote Debears for again jumping right after Djo on the catching CC's slip and the voting on CC He looks like town giving up now. [b]##Vote Debears[b/] Debears was second in my scum list, I had seen him voting people right after Djo did druing day1. I found that scummy, a way to hide his intentions by always being second and not a driver in decision making. I thought on the actual lynch that he did sheep-vote again. He, on top of that, voted CC, untoved him, revoted him. Was pretty suspicious looking to me. As a conclusion, I was wrong ok, but I followed my logic. | ||
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
On November 06 2012 18:30 Djodref wrote: @ daoud My comments in bold font in your quote. @ Djo You don't exactly answer my accusations First point, the problem was not that you asked for a case against you. But that you asked for a case right before going to bed and blaming Clarity that anyway you won't be able to defend yourself cause he waited too long to post his case. Second point, you are stating one of the scum slips. The biggest one, which i still find subjective. You called for many other scum-tells here and there. Last point, again you are not directly answering my point. I understand that you voted for CC for his silly claim, and at least 4 towns did. What I regret is that you attack CC calmly then reiterates that you want you clarity lynch and out of a sudden without saying, i give up on clarity you irreversibly change horse. | ||
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
As far as I know apart from one (nicely formatted  ) case on Sylver there is nothing else than extra tunnelling on Clarity. At least find other new arguments against him to bring to the table. Who cares about the time of the PM with Marv. Marv himself said there wont be any copy paste of anything so Clarity will obviously give you an answer that satisfy you. You are flooding the thread here. | ||
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
I won't be around until tomorrow morning my time, which is roughly gonna be 12 hours from now. | ||
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
On November 06 2012 19:09 Djodref wrote: @ daoud I think that I'm investing myself more than you in this game so I'm not going to accept your critic for the fact that I did only focus on sylver. I'll answer your case again though... Again not what I said at all : I said since you announced you would stop tunneling clarity you had only one post (a case against sylver) before shifting back to tunnelling clarity. Nothing against your investment in that game. I see you have not slept much indeed. Ps : sorry phone posting | ||
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
On November 07 2012 02:30 Alsn wrote: To be fair, if Cheese had the right assumption and that it was actually possible to "confirm" all VT's, it would probably have been pretty good for town. The problem was, what was to stop a non-VT(either blue or scum) from just saying "uuh, I didn't know everyone knew?" after debears asked that question? There was just no way to confirm anyone as anything considering what we now know, so stop it with the absolutely ridiculous speculation. However, if it had actually been possible to confirm all the VTs, scum would probably have been in a fishy situation. They would know who the blues were, but they wouldn't know which blues they were. At the same time, all the VTs would have known who not to lynch, in addition to the blues(assuming there's two of them, which is just a guess at this point) knowing among which three players the scum were hiding. That would've probably been a pretty difficult situation for scum because even if they night kill both blues, no VT is going to lynch another VT in a scenario like that. So there's no way for scum to proceed than to NK VTs and hope town lynches the blue players instead of scum. This would still leave 3 VT vs 2 scum in D3 though. I think Cheese just made a mistake in not thinking it through, as a scenario like that would include no "proper" play at all from the game participants. So if that really was the case Cheese claiming like that would have meant that marv probably would have cancelled and restarted the game with new roles. It's unfortunate that we didn't have enough time to think it through, because in hindsight I think Cheese's argument about "why would I blow up the thread as scum?" looks pretty convincing actually. That's the last thing I'll say on the matter. The fact is that there's absolutely no way to confirm or deny anything with regards to that clusterfuck. With that in mind, like the late debears said, going forward we should use legit scum hunting, not WIFOM bullshit. Morning just catching up with the thread (only bottom of page 64 so far) One quick reaction to your post before I forget. I personally think that if we had confirmed all the VTs it would only have made sense for scum to kill them at night and not the blue. They want to keep uncertainty and don't want to be outnumbered by VTs. I think this is as well the reason Debears got killed cause he is the one who got the most genuine reaction to CC claim. | ||
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
On November 07 2012 09:07 Rad wrote: @da0ud What do you think about people claiming right now? Djo seems to think clarity should claim, and probably thinks I should to. Is that a good or bad idea in your opinion for the current state of the game? Finishing to read before gathering my thoughts and posting on the subject. Been pretty busy at work, and each page I read another one appears in the thread. I would like to contribute asap though because I don't want all of you to be in bed yet.... | ||
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
More seriously I do TRULY believe Djodref 's claim. No one can counter-claim and especially not me. I actually do understand in a sense why he did not put Debears in jail. If he thought the scum team was Alsn/Clarity, then is move calling that Clairty should be put in jail, is actually good. If Alsn was scum with Clarity, I would give the KP to Alsn. Scum team could not go to deep in mind thinking and actually give the KP to Clarity. Djodref blocking Alsn and seeing Debears (biggest town reaction the CC 's claim) dead, confirms to me that Alsn is town . I know I am town myself and I understand totally Obzy's frustration. You play the game and hope to be scum to have fun and or worst case to have an interesting blue role. You get the VT PM and you feel disappointed. Though you don't want to let your team down (like Roco last game) and mostly do sheep because you don't want to invest time to write big cases and go over and over on people's filter. Think of me man, this is my third game and have been VT every single one (last game I became a posteriori JK because Calrity got modkilled), so I understand your frustration. For that reason if find Obzy town . There is still a tiny chance you would be scum, playing the super emotional newbie card. The emotional part is really well played though. Clarity (?!!?), your defense ! your reaction to CC's claim ! nothing makes sense now man. You are digging a hole deeper and deeper. 99.9% convinced you are scumClarity . I don't believe a second that with your experience, you would have considered PMing Marv. I have played a few games already (ok I don't read super closely the OP) and I didn't even understand the situation with people calling CC fake claiming. Didn't cross my mind a second. @Obzy, question to you : as a VT, have you PMed Marv and ask if you PM was in the blue PM and scum PM ? Rad I am not convinced you are scum, you can redeem yourself. Two points against you. First one is slim. We were three laying on Debears on D1 lynch. I personally assume that a scum team move, would be to get one to vote on CC and one to vote someone else. Just to spread the suspicious. We were only three voting on Debears : CC , Da0ud , Rad (Rad ?). Second point is you have been defending Clarity quite a lot, but this is not too scummy, it would be too obvious and if i were Clarity 's teammate I would back off. On the other hand, you have tried to change subject, do more scum-hunting, consider more cases and I like it. (even though, yourself you didn't do much of that). Leaves Sylver ! You could be the other scum guy taking advantage of Rad being associated to Clarity. I am actually laying towards that ! Order of preference Clairty/Sylver over Clarity/Rad I reiterate my vote on Clarity for the time being. ##Unvote revote : ##Vote Clarity Even if Clarity were not scum (slim chance) this lynch is good for town ! We would get so much more colour on what to do afterwards ! Djodref would have no chance to survive another day as scum ! | ||
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
On November 07 2012 13:47 Djodref wrote: @ Rad What do you think about the fact that Clarity never wanted to share the exact question he asked ? @ daoud why would I be scum if Claritg flips town ? It was a way to say, you would be a clear target, so it doesn't really believe you would push that move as scum. Don't you think everyone would go after you if Clarity flips town ? One more reason for me to believe your hidden message : I am french as well so I would have located other hidden potential role claim like the "Gardien". I didn't see no "Police", "Gendarme", etc. | ||
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