Acme Mini Mafia, Inc

On November 05 2012 23:54 Acrofales wrote:
Not much to go on for Hopeless1der. I will thus make the case both ways, as I did for Muso. On Muso I felt the town case was stronger (as I said at the time). This time I am leaning towards scum:

The case for Hopeless1der

The scum mindset

Why grudgingly? Why would a townie grudgingly admit to knowing something about a fellow townie that exculpates him. Would this not be a good thing? However, from a scum viewpoint, it makes sense: he does not want to admit that Kush derps pretty consistently, but feels compelled by the general direction of the game, and the need to make a good impression at the start of it to grudgingly admit to this information.

Regarding Muso:

At this point all Muso had done wrong, as far as anybody knew was lie about his experience in the game. If a mason claimed to be his partner, then his claim would be more believable than mine. However, hopeless wants to go ahead and lynch him REGARDLESS of any further developments. Now, hopeless may be a townie making an error of judgement and believing my claim unconditionally. However, at this point I see no real reason to say we should lynch Muso regardless unless you're scum and want to push strongly for that townie lynch. At this point, my claim was by far the more believable one (as evidenced by everybody voting Muso), so he picked Muso to bandwagon on, rather than me.


Suspicious minds would say that you are paying way too close attention to the wording and that you are, in fact, bluehunting. I thought this was worth mentioning, because the tone rubbed me the wrong way at the time. I am still not quite sure why though. If I had to say, it is because Hopeless seems to be puzzling rather hard over whether my claim means I'm claiming VT or not. Something townies shouldn't be worried about (except that Kush got everybody riled up about it).

The OMGUS

Now I think that Muso did not word himself properly here, but his main point was that hopeless1der was unwilling to even consider the possibility that Muso was town. Hopeless skipped right over that part and made a jump of bad logic: Muso knows he'll flip town and is talking about AFTER his death, when everybody else will know he flipped town too. He thinks Prom is scum and Hopeless is trying to keep the lynch focused on Muso to protect his scumbuddy. However, regardless of what Prom flips, he urges us to look into Hopeless.

The mere fact that Hopeless is unwilling to consider a town Muso is what he is finding scummy. This is indeed scummy behaviour. Hopeless' way of dealing with this is to discredit it and OMGUS someone who is already about to die anyway.

He shows absolutely NO willingness to even consider the possibility that Muso is town. That may be because he already knows Muso is town and he has absolutely no reason to reconsider his thoughts given the rather large amounts of new information.

The lurk
After 18 hours of inactivity (all through the night, I might add, which is when scum is busy deciding whom to shoot in their own little QT) we get:

This is an utterly useless post, which just emphasizes his lurkiness. I don't see this as "too bold to be scum". People had noticed his absense and were commenting on it. He needed to say something about it. This is all we get.

Since then his activity has been limited to a rather bad meta-case against Promethelax, and a throwaway statement that he wants to lynch Drazak. If anything they feel like testers: if somebody bites and starts ramping up a case against Release or Drazak, he is ready to jump on it. However, he is completely noncommittal and happy to do no scumhunting of his own.

This also ties into his earlier behaviour (see below): he showed commitment and activity in the game, but once people started reading him as town (me in my night post, for instance), he dropped off the map. Also, lets not forget Mattchew[/green's opinion. Mattchew is actually a pretty good scumhunter, despite him claiming otherwise, and it is always a good idea to listen to what he says (although moreso when he's scum )

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The case for Hopeless1der

Keeping discussion from derailing

Why would scum be afraid of kush running rampant with his crazy theory. Fake claming seems particularly easy.. and all that is needed to placate Kush is a silly VT claim like Paint Bucket or Boulder if push really comes to shove and town starts mass claiming. And that's assuming scum isn't given a list of safeclaims in the first place (a fairly common thing for normal games).

However, as town, this whole discussion was a giant distraction from what we should have been doing: scumhunting. Hopeless seems to be trying to keep the town on track.

Keeping promises
Too often scum make a promise to be active and then forget about it. It's one of the things I like to look for when reading filters. Hopeless makes a promise and delivers on it. This put him on my town list initially, as it shows a certain consistency. Not a big tell, though, especially given his later behaviour. See above.
+ Show Spoiler [Hopeless1der's promise] +
Incidentally, I also liked the content of this post as it agreed rather largely with what I found based on Release's meta. However, scum has an easy time making town reads look right, because they already know that the player is town.