GSL Mini Mafia III

On October 20 2012 09:49 drazak wrote:
I can't imagine someone in this game giving a truly awful hammer vote, would probably HAVE to be extreme circumstances.

On October 20 2012 10:05 drazak wrote:
Well, I kind of thought it was stupid, but yeah, it starts conversation and forces him to reply. Seemed like he was replying pretty well on his own though so I was gonna leave it, but the connection seems to have gone dead.

On October 20 2012 13:15 Hapahauli wrote:
I go off to play some TF2 and the thread blows up - sweet!

Regarding DP

If I'm getting his logic correctly, he used "role" instead of "allignment" when questioning Draz because scum will somehow be under more pressure if they fakeclaim later, correct?

Well it doesn't make sense, but it's not scummy. The fact that he's sitting here and earnestly explaining incomprehensible logic away makes me think he's town tbh.

Regarding Draz

I coached Drazak in two newbie games, so I feel I should say something about his meta/playstyle. Drazak got mislynched in both his games (pretty early) for lurkiness/wishy-washyness as town. Nothing he's done is alignment indicative so far. I will say he's shown much more interest in this game than his previous games FWIW. Nothing to make a read on him yet.

On October 20 2012 12:19 Keirathi wrote:

I completely agree with vader here.

I mean, DP, what if Draz is a blue. What do you expect him to say? Of course he's not going to claim a blue role (I hope), a few hours into day 1. So, he claims Progamer. Then he gets close to lynch, and says "Okay, I'm actually Nestea. Don't lynch me!". What are you going to do, lynch him because he lied and said he was progamer 3 hours into the game?

I call bullshit. You know that everyone is going to claim progamer just the same as everyone is going to claim green.

There were many acceptable replies iamp's accusation. Yours was not one of them.

On October 21 2012 00:46 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Z-Bo



It's one of those really over-thought-out plans that aligns very well with townie thought process. Not definitive by any means, but I do consider it a town tell.



Whatever the meta read, he's posted more in this game already than his last town game (mislynched D1). He seems very eager to post, and that makes me think he's town. His defenses have been instant (and IMO honest), and mulling over his history, I'd be pretty surprised if that came from scum-Drazak.



Yah I'm a bit surprised at how little Kei has contributed so far. Early D1 caveats of course, but I always had the impression that his town play was very active on the early days.

The fact that he's sitting here and earnestly explaining incomprehensible logic away makes me think he's town tbh.

It's one of those really over-thought-out plans that aligns very well with townie thought process. Not definitive by any means, but I do consider it a town tell.

On October 21 2012 01:18 Keirathi wrote:

It was friday night. I went out. I wasn't expecting the game to start yesterday, and I wasn't going to change my plans anyways.

Also, that's such a blanket statement (and not even necessarily a true one...I've not been super active early in like half of my games), that has absolutely nothing to do with my alignment. I was "very active" in the early game as scum too. So what was the point of even saying that?


What the fuck does that even mean? "Someone like Keir"? And also, explain how that post isn't genuine, please. Darth's post, pre-explanation, made absolutely zero sense, and I disagreed with him asking it. Post-explanation, it was still dumb and never going to accomplish what he said his "goal" was, but at least I understand his reasoning now.

Anyways, its gameday. I'll be around off and on today, but not sitting at the computer all day.

On October 21 2012 01:47 Keirathi wrote:

What? I made it perfectly clear what my opinion on it was. It was a bullshit post, and I called it that, and wanted him to explain.

I was not, and am not, going to make any decisions about his alignment based on that. He at least provided a plausible explanation, even if it does feel a little "made up after-the-fact" because someone called him out on it. I don't think it makes him scummy, nor do I think it makes him town. What, exactly, is the point of saying "Yea, he's still neutral"?

On October 21 2012 02:07 Keirathi wrote:

Your whole problem seems to be that I left instead of sticking around discussing things.

I'm not going to keep responding to you here. I had plans. I wasn't going to cancel them because the game started semi-unexpectedly. If you have a problem with that, then tough titties.

What, exactly, is the point of saying "Yea, he's still neutral"?

On October 21 2012 01:47 Keirathi wrote:

What? I made it perfectly clear what my opinion on it was. It was a bullshit post, and I called it that, and wanted him to explain.

I was not, and am not, going to make any decisions about his alignment based on that. He at least provided a plausible explanation, even if it does feel a little "made up after-the-fact" because someone called him out on it. I don't think it makes him scummy, nor do I think it makes him town. What, exactly, is the point of saying "Yea, he's still neutral"?

On October 21 2012 13:28 Keirathi wrote:
I don't really like Draz's explanation either.



First, unvoting isn't being "wishy-washy", assuming you explain yourself. But hell, its not like you even unvoted, nor was DP calling you out FOR unvoting. He was calling you out for leaving your vote on someone who you ostensibly don't believe is scum. It's not a "trap", because he hasn't said anything about you unvoting being scummy to begin with. Voting for someone isn't inherently scummy, obviously, but leaving your vote on someone that you don't have a scum read on is certainly on the scummy side (although, I will admit, that I've seen townies do it too. That doesn't make the action itself less scummy, just that townies can, at times, play scummily).

Second, putting pressure isn't scummy either. But, you're not actually putting pressure on him. You just parked a vote there and haven't done anything with it. THAT is scummy. What is the point of your vote right now?

On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh.

On October 21 2012 23:33 DarthPunk wrote:
Everyone is acting weird this game tho. Marv afk for two days. Hapa not really scumhunting and making mainly town reads that I am not sure are entirely rational based on the information available.

Austin attacking logic rather than motive than finding everyone who did the same suspicious

ZB looking alot closer to his scum meta thatn his town meta.

Not enough yet for a real push on any of them. But this is a strange game.

On October 22 2012 00:36 DarthPunk wrote:


If I am right I am going to obnoxiously ungraceful about it. ^_^

On October 22 2012 00:41 marvellosity wrote:
Z-Bo, I love that you're wary of me and then you conclude your post with the two reads I had. Woe is me ^_^

On October 22 2012 00:51 marvellosity wrote:


wary, not weary dear. And back off, tiger. No of course I don't have to be town, but if someone agrees with my reads, I generally feel better about them. The "woe is me ^^" was supposed to indicate I wasn't deadly serious.

@DP: T.T

On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote:
Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious)

On October 21 2012 08:24 austinmcc wrote:
Realized just saying "Man, this guy hasn't said much" isn't going to do anything.

##Vote: vaderseven

Much of your posting is just about DP last night, and everyone seems to have concluded that DP is town because of how he explained/tried to explain himself. That was just easy activity and an easy way to make it look like you cared about something.

That applies to me too. We can all be suspicious of EVERYONE who has basically only been active for that.

---

---

drazak.

There was a lot of discussion about DP last night. In light of that discussion, do you still feel that your vote is on scum? If so, why?

If not, out of the players who were poking at DP tonight, who looks the scummiest in the way they interacted with DP?

On October 21 2012 08:02 austinmcc wrote:

I don't remember kei in LC tbh. I was mostly inactive D1, came back looking at those couple specific people, died before I had a good handle on the full game.

Kei from Aperture 2 I feel like is a solid townie as far as being active, looking town, once the game starts. Not...the type of player who takes advantage of that, though? Basically was the towniest person in game, was going to get protection, but kind of let spammier people take over and direct the flow of the game, and noticed that that was happening (kei, your game was much more fun when we were scumhunting than claiming/solving the game bit). I expect some good and insightful posts from him, but I haven't seen him be particularly aggressive.

I think we also played...rockband? And maybe another game? I'll have to look through. I don't have a big meta handle on keirathi, but I'm also not generally good at catching people via meta or even USING meta. I mainly focus on picking out odd questions, or questions that never got pursued. That seems to be when I'm most effective, and so I'm going to try and mine the thread hard for things that stick out.

---

---

Right now, and I haven't looked at his past play recently, but v7 is sticking out to me somewhat. The DP stuff was EASY to mine for activity last night, poke at it poke at it poke at it. And very safe too, because the way he started to flop around felt townie, so you could attack attack attack and just say "Eh, his flopping around townie." A couple of us did that, but DP has almost only talked about his past games and the DP stuff last night. (AND THEN HE MAY HAVE SPOILED GSL, UNSURE, I AIN'T CLICKING THAT UNTIL I WATCH)

There's nothing more than that to go on, but out of all the people who have some posts, his feel like there's the least in them.

---

---

Not relevant to anything that's happening, but spoilered for DP and so thread can see my thought process:
+ Show Spoiler +

On October 22 2012 00:17 austinmcc wrote:

It's your natural inclination to want to lynch a townie.

Yes.

It is NOT normal for you to say "Let's lynch a townie." There's a huge difference. You say, "This guy (and I don't want to tell you this, but he's totes town) looks scummy for x and y, I think we should vote him." You do not go, "Attention town, I think this guy is townie, let's lynch him."

The vote on someone you explicitly say doesn't feel scummy is NOT good townie play. But it's NOT good scum play. Again, look at it from both sides. It's not that the vote makes no sense from a townie, it's that the vote makes no sense from either alignment. Therefore, you can't get a read off it; it's null.

On October 22 2012 03:04 marvellosity wrote:
Z-Bo, I disagree with your entire read on austin regarding that drazak stuff.

His stance is entirely understandable and mirrors my own pretty closely. It's not rational for town OR scum to say you're gonna kill a townie (for slightly different reasons), and the conclusion from that is that it's somewhat of a null tell.

In other words, I've been leaning townie on drazak because of the overall feel of his filter; not because what he did in that instance I felt was strongly scummy or townie.

On October 22 2012 04:00 Hapahauli wrote:


Uhhgggh fine I'm scum.
+ Show Spoiler +

But in all seriousness, is there anything you want me to address? Like I don't understand this helpless attitude you're taking to making a read on me. I understand jokes to a point, but I'm not unreadable and I'm a bit suspicious of this nonchalant attitude you're taking to determining my alignment.

Yah I'm a bit surprised at how little Kei has contributed so far. Early D1 caveats of course, but I always had the impression that his town play was very active on the early days.

On October 20 2012 09:22 Hapahauli wrote:


The nice thing about policy is we can choose how strictly to enforce it or not. I just would like to set the stage for some discussion, and create an environment where people aren't scared to seriously pursue scumreads.

On October 22 2012 04:01 austinmcc wrote:

Hmmm. I'm glad I don't seem crazy tunnelly. Look at Looney Lynching and my play there, or my comments in obs chat. Yes, I've been exceptionally tunnelly in some recent games. It didn't work out well.

I'm curious though, why would you think townie austinmcc would be all over drazak or DP?

On October 22 2012 04:33 austinmcc wrote:
His not posting could go either way, it doesn't really do anything.

On October 22 2012 04:51 Hapahauli wrote:


Uhh wat? Well of course I'll "expand" on what you've said, but you aren't at all in the least bit curious to hear my explanations for my actions when you are suspicious of me?

a) I am, but like I said, I am more interested in your reads. Now, however, you've successfully convinced me you need more looking into.

As for my "easy reads", I still stand by them. I like taking stances early in the game. Sometimes I'm wrong about them (actually I was really wrong about DP in mafia LVII while I was alive), but it's a nice way to get things going. Also, I really stand by my town read on DP this game (he has 5 pages of filter already FFS). Starting to waver on Draz a bit due to his recent inactivity.

b) I have no problems with your town read on DP. I agree with them. I don't understand why you felt the need to bring this up. I don't think I mentioned that I was troubled with you taking stances early on. My trouble was with the "easy reads on scum, and I think this was quite clear when I mentioned v7, the "easy read" I'm referring to.

As for the "reminding you of my scum newbie game"... in what regard? Can't respond to this if I have no idea wtf you're talking about.

c) The general feel of your posts. I'm not going to go through your old filters to prove what I mean, unless I really want you dead.

As for "fluffy" posts - I haven't had much substance to go on until today, but with some newfound posting, let's get to work on that:

kk

---

Regarding Kei

There's nothing in his filter that sets of scum alarms for me. His activity is normal for either alignment (therefore null), and I do like that he seems like he's actively thinking about Drazak's filter. He does a mini-180 on his stance on Drazak which seems pretty logical - first thinking that his vote is more likely town, then when Drazak doesn't post, he's willing to change his read due to the lack of pressure that Draz is putting on DP.

On top of that, having read through his scum meta in GSL I extensively, I find his scum play to be overall more cooperative. I'm definitely not lynching him on his filter, but I'd like to hear more from him. Null/leaning-town on Kei.

d) Cooperative as in looking more townie and seeming like he is trying to scumhunt more? I don't understand what you mean here.

---

Regarding Austin

Just like Marv, I'm really really good at wanting to mislynch town-austin every time we're in a game together. However unlike marv, I don't get townie vibes from his filter so far. This post especially is strange:



It's divided into three parts: 1) Meta-talk on Kei 2) stuff on v7/DP 3) Explanation of thought process to DP

1) He really doesn't say anything here. I think he's capable of doing this as town though, and he mentions that he's not very big on meta. This is fine.

2) This starts to get a bit weird, and I can't follow the logic at all. He says v7 is sticking out to him, and then talks about the DP situation for the entire paragraph.

3) This strikes me as a defensive impulse. I dont' understand why austin would get defensive here or really bother to explain his actions when no one was suspecting him for it.

Overall, austin's D1 play this game is more active, and I haven't seen it before and don't know what to make of it. However, I do find him slightly scummy because of the above post and want some answers.

On October 22 2012 05:29 Hapahauli wrote:
Red stuff:

a) Cool.
b) Easy reads on scum? What's "easy" about my v7 read? It's straightforward yes, but I don't get why it's inappropriate for me to vote a guy for the reasons I've listed.
c) Uhhhh k.
d) Scum Kei in GSL I tried to be cooperative with other players IMO - he strayed away from confrontations with people he didn't have scumreads on.

Austin case stuff:
1) Yes you did, and that's why I said it was "fine" explicitly. I just broke it down for the sake of completeness.
2) Yeah I didn't get his logic on my first readthrough. Austin explained it quite thoroughly in his spoilers though, so yeah I changed my mind on this quite a bit.
3) Yes I'm suggesting a defensive impulse (or more specifically, defending yourself when you aren't suspicious) is scummy. However, I do think he's capable of this as town, and without #2 as valid, I'm no longer leaning scum on austin.

On October 22 2012 05:50 marvellosity wrote:


I'm not exactly sure. A couple of posts later in his filter he explains he was just calling out bullshit and didn't read anything alignment-y from it. But then if that's the case, then the contributions were just pointless and not really contributions.

I think Kei is playing pretty scummily - but what gives me pause is in his recent post, he just told town he doesn't really have any reads. Given he's under some pressure, it makes little sense for a scum Kei to do that. But then I find myself going around in stupid little wifom circles. What do you think?

I don't have these little niggles about vader, so I'd quite like to hammer him. But we're still going places with discussion so I'm loathe to right now.

Z-bo, are you sure that part of your read on Hapa isn't that you're putting him on a pedestal and placing unreasonable expectation from his posting? I'm getting that vibe from what you're posting about him.

On October 22 2012 05:52 Hapahauli wrote:


What's there to answer? You haven't asked me anything about the v7 vote that I didn't answer already. You still also have not addressed why you don't think my rationale is insufficient.



Uncharacteristic for me? I am the king of forced D1 cases.

Also, do you realize how hypocritical you're sounding right now? Hypocritical to the point of scumminess. Take a gander of your post here:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602&currentpage=14#274
You explicitly reference austin's post (the one I initially objected to) and this is how you described it:


Huhwat? Whether you agree with it or not, I made an actual attempt to analyze austin's post. Instead, you dismissed the whole thing as fluff, and somehow my case is forced? Hell given your objections with austin's post, and given that you found him scummy then, it is really weird that you picked a fight over my analysis.

Explain yourself sir.

On October 22 2012 04:25 Z-BosoN wrote:


Because some elements of what they said I figured you would be immediately on their tail.
I've taken a look at looney, and well, fine lol. I'll make that a null read on you. You are also fairly active, so I don't think you'd make a good lynch today.

I'm seriously looking into Keir/v7. Since Keir is actually showing his face, I'm almost almost almost willing to plunge the hammer on v7. I can't think of a better lynch than him, and his absence is just dragging the game out.

The reason why I'm not wanting to push it is that he hasn't said shit yet in face of death. A scum, having 4 votes on him, if he could post, would definitely post and try to avoid it, no?

On October 22 2012 04:45 Z-BosoN wrote:
Well, as you yourself said, a lot of people jumped on DP for this. You removed blame on them because they continued to post and make contributions. So in a way, the fact that he isn't posting when ONLY having done that in this game is why people want him dead right now. Since he hasn't posted yet, I'm concluding that he's not reading the thread, and not really giving a damn.
Marv, what say you?

On October 22 2012 06:33 marvellosity wrote:


I don't enjoy using scales with no fun factor. Include a really whiny celebrity and I will answer.

More seriously, it's not the whining, it's that he didn't actually answer your question regarding why he's attacking you over austin's posts. Nor was what you were doing OMGUS, you were asking for an explanation.

Z-Bo, you're seriously farting around with this Hapa stuff, what gives?

What's there to answer? You haven't asked me anything about the v7 vote that I didn't answer already. You still also have not addressed why you don't think my rationale is insufficient.

So, based on your weird-ass interpretation of the word "unjust", you unvote someone you had a scum-read on, a vote which came before he went afk for an additional 12 hours or more.

On October 22 2012 07:23 Hapahauli wrote:
Okeydoke that's townie enough. Certainly can't lynch you over v7 at this point.

Though I do want to clear this up:


I have never heard of a confident vote being used as a scumtell. Maybe scum confidence, but not the other way around.



I think I made it clear, but w/e. Looks like you're done with it and I am too.

---

Now back to the subject of vaderseven - do we want to set a time to hammer him? His inactivity is fairly absurd at this point, and I believe we should set a deadline. I mentioned 12 hours earlier, however, we're getting good discussion now and I don't want to rush things. Perhaps at this time tomorrow, in exactly 24 hours (7:00 KST according to TL.net), hammertime if he doesn't post?

On October 14 2012 08:23 Z-BosoN wrote:

Yea that's making me uneasy on who to vote.
The biggest tagline of my voting on ShiaoPi is being useless with a fair possibility of being scum.
The biggest tagline of me wanting to vote DP is that I actually find him scum.

On October 23 2012 03:17 austinmcc wrote:

Z-BosoN, could you answer this in more detail? Why would townie austin have been all over drazak and DP for their early posting?

On October 23 2012 01:35 DarthPunk wrote:
Just looking over ZB's filter he has barely pushed v7 at all. The cases of his on both hapa and Keir are much stronger IMO and have a lot more time invested. Townie ZB tries to canvass support hardcore when he pushes like that. But this game he hasn't really bothered.

I would fully expect ZB to be pushing Keir right now. As most of his interaction has been towards him. I would not expect him to just lynch a 'liability' like that. Especially when he has his own cases that he usually tries to canvass support for. It's like he doesn;t care about the lynch as much as usual.

For reference. In XXVIII when I caught Kush with a super obvious scum slip ZB STILL did not want to lynch him until after kush was being bussed and went full troll mode on the thread.

I went over his scum filter from XXIV briefly.That is like the only game of his in which he pushed lurkers happily over those he had made cases/reads on.

On October 23 2012 03:49 austinmcc wrote:

I'm trying to read you. Your comment about who I should be attacking sticks out to me. I personally disagree that I'd be going after those targets, but I don't know if: (1) I'm wrong; (2) you really think that and have reasons behind thinking that; or (3) you just tossed that comment out there without reasoning behind it.

You explaining yourself helps me choose between (1) or (2) vs. (3).

On October 22 2012 06:39 Z-BosoN wrote:
Hapa, not sure I follow you here.
It's funny you got all riled up on the word "unjust". Initially, I had written "retarded", but I didn't want to sound like a dick and start a war. So I used a word that better describes what you are doing. You are using a fraction of one post I make to deem me hypocritical.
So, based on your weird-ass interpretation of the word "unjust", you unvote someone you were uber confident on, before he went afk for an additional 12 hours or more.
Very interesting, to say the least. I'll mull this over dinner.

On October 23 2012 04:19 Hapahauli wrote:
Now I'm generally fairly sympathetic towards inconsistencies, since I can be very inconsistent myself as town. In particular, misrepresenting the stances of others isn't necessarily scummy, and I've fell victim to tunneling people on that in the past. However, misrepresenting your own stances is much scummier IMO. Especially when it reads to me like you're bullshitting your reasons for suspecting a player.

I know I was going to wait on v7, but I've convinced myself. Unless I hear a good explanation for your "reasoning" above, my vote is squarely on you.

##Vote Z-Boson

On October 23 2012 04:21 Hapahauli wrote:
No you are still bullshitting.



What part of this statement shows a "different event"? Fact of the matter is, you attacked me on an "easy read", and have relentlessly redefined your notion of "easy read." In fact, you attacking me for the unvote was a very secondary event in your overall suspicions of me.

On October 23 2012 04:23 Hapahauli wrote:


Simple. You have three different definitions of what you call an "easy read." None of them make sense with each other.

On October 23 2012 04:27 Hapahauli wrote:
Or rather, what I'm asking of you is to describe how what I pointed out here makes sense in detail:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602&currentpage=25#491

Because the way I read it...
1) you initially attack me for my "easy reads" in general, explicitly mentioning the read on Kei
2) you then re-define "easy reads" to mean my read on v7
3) then you re-define "easy reads" again to mean my unvote on v7.

Your reads so far seem too... easy. I don't like how you agreed with me on the Keirathi case:

Your reads so far seem too... easy. For instance, I don't like how you agreed with me on the Keirathi case:

Your reads so far seem too... easy. I also don't like how you agreed with me on the Keirathi case:

Yah I'm a bit surprised at how little Kei has contributed so far. Early D1 caveats of course, but I always had the impression that his town play was very active on the early days.

As for my "easy reads", I still stand by them. I like taking stances early in the game. Sometimes I'm wrong about them (actually I was really wrong about DP in mafia LVII while I was alive), but it's a nice way to get things going. Also, I really stand by my town read on DP this game (he has 5 pages of filter already FFS). Starting to waver on Draz a bit due to his recent inactivity.

On October 22 2012 05:19 Z-BosoN wrote:
Alrighty. Read the bloodstains. Referenced for ease of response.


This later part on austin's case I'm going to respond here, because I have MAJOR issues with it.
1) I asked him for his town read on keir..
2) What? What logic don't you follow. His logic seems pretty clear to me. You are treating the events "v7 sticking out to him" and "the DP situation" as separate events. To me it seems quite clear that he is troubled with v7 because of his "easy voting" on DP.
3) It looks like a defensive impulse. Are you saying it makes him seem scummy?

I REALLY dislike point number 2). Wtf, I say.

b) I have no problems with your town read on DP. I agree with them. I don't understand why you felt the need to bring this up. I don't think I mentioned that I was troubled with you taking stances early on. My trouble was with the "easy reads on scum, and I think this was quite clear when I mentioned v7, the "easy read" I'm referring to.

Hapa, not sure I follow you here.
It's funny you got all riled up on the word "unjust". Initially, I had written "retarded", but I didn't want to sound like a dick and start a war. So I used a word that better describes what you are doing. You are using a fraction of one post I make to deem me hypocritical.
So, based on your weird-ass interpretation of the word "unjust", you unvote someone you were uber confident on, before he went afk for an additional 12 hours or more.
Very interesting, to say the least. I'll mull this over dinner.

3) then you re-define "easy reads" again to mean my unvote on v7.

Also, I don't get why people are thinking I'm sheeping. First of all, there's not really much to say on v7.
Second of all, I actually did spend quite some time pondering whether I should give the vote hammer or not. Why are you attacking me right now, and not before? Makes 0 sense.
The hapa thing, I attacked him because he unvoted v7 when I completely disagreed with his reasoning to do so.

@Hapa
All of a sudden? So I spend like 10 posts saying why I think you are suspicious, and you say, "all of a sudden"?
Fuck off. Not willing to lynch you != I think you are townie.

I have no heart defending myself here. Most of this shit comes from a lack of reading and erratic interpretations. I've made cases vs. kei and hapa, but concluded that v7 deserved the best lynch. How is this fucking scummy? Better yet, how is this scummier over ppl like kei and v7 who aren't doing shit?

Wanna talk about sheeping? Try Kei, who hasn't done shit and suddenly goes for me as soon as DP opens the door.

3) then you re-define "easy reads" again to mean my unvote on v7.

On October 23 2012 06:09 Hapahauli wrote:
But let's lay it out for the town to see:



What did Z-Boson make this post in reply to? Well let's take a look at what just happened in the thread.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602&currentpage=24#462
Here's kei's case on Z-Bo. In particular, this line:

On October 23 2012 06:28 Hapahauli wrote:
Yo I sniped the shit outta you dawg.

On October 23 2012 06:26 Hapahauli wrote:
Okeydoke I'm dropping the Z-Bo stuff. Starting to realize from my last post that Z-Bo could have read Kei's stuff much different than I. 180'ing the read here and calling him town (I DO WAT I WANT) - dropping the contradiction, everything else in his filter pretty much makes sense from a town perspective - willingness to jump on multiple people, making several consecutive reads and playing reactionary.

Anywho, this is fairly good, because there are two people in particular who decided to chime into our argument without much to offer. Drazak and Vaderseven.

Drazak

This post was such an oddly timed comment. In particular, Z-Bo had a lot of suspicion on him, and he immediately soft-defends him and takes no stance. It's such an irrelevant comment, and I don't like how he's answering a question for me. He does this one more time with iamperfection:

He actually defended you, when I attacked you for your change in interpretation. But regardless, that comment was weird as fuck, and completely misplaced. He takes priority over defending you over making any contributions? Weird.


This is completely balls out WTF. Why is he bothering to defend iamp out of the blue??

Now Draz is lynch-bait, so I'm a bit hesitant about jumping on this, but this looks pretty scummy at face value.

From these posts you quoted alone, I get a feeling of absurdity rather than scumminess. I have to do a bit of thinking and actually read some of his filters to see if it fits more noob town or noob scum.

Vaderseven:


This is just the strangest comment. He jumps in and pretty much calls him scum, despite his overall very neutral reads on players, as well as his general distrust of D1 reads. Pretty odd.

I don't think he is calling me scum.. he called me a jerk. imo this is just a null-tell, since I pretty much was a jerk.

On October 23 2012 06:56 marvellosity wrote:
My head hurts. Now I know what it looks like when me and VE shout at each other for pages ^^

Unless I missed it, I don't think Z-Bo ever answer Kei's original question of where his v7 scumread appeared from? I've just been through Z-Bo's filter and it indeed just appears and I can't find an explanation. Hopefully I'm not being a fucking dumbass.

Z-Bo, explain please? Further, what is your current read on vader and why?

Hapa has the right idea with his drazak and v7 post. 1) When two people are shouting at each other, the natural scum reaction is to let it roll, or even throw wood on to the fire, rather than actually do anything about making it stop. On a little sidenote, it's why I found austin's play kinda adorable, because he was trying to push a policy idea but was being roundly ignored, so his reaction was to keep pushing the same idea in the same way, only to be unsurprisingly ignored again

Anyway, vader fits perfectly into the throwing-wood-on-to-the-fire mould, basically egging on the aggressiveness in the thread when there was no need for him to do so. Also, unlike austin, I see his 'I'm going through filter' thing as pretty scummy - like he's going through the motions rather than trying to push something constructive into the thread. BUT LOOK, I'M LOOKING AT PEOPLE'S SHIT?! No. Don't buy it.

Every time I see vader post, he's not making me think any more that he's town. This scumbo gotta hang.

##Vote vaderseven.

On October 23 2012 06:24 Keirathi wrote:
@austin: I'm not exactly sure what you want from me?

Just dump a big list of any thoughts about every single person? That doesn't actually seem helpful, and I am loathe to do it.

I still think we should be lynching Z-Bo.

On October 23 2012 07:19 marvellosity wrote:
look at vader's contributions and how they're not really connected to the goings-on in the thread at all, except for when he's shouting at people. Do you see this?

On October 20 2012 12:01 vaderseven wrote:



I have played over 50 forum games of mafia over the past 10 years... on SomethingAwful.net, TL, solidstatesquad, aaroninjapan, ddrstl, and a few other places. I am pretty much the best mafia player to ever walk the planet minus my efforts in GSL I.

Policy lynch for a hammer is so situational I don't understand why you would think its a good call from the get go to just declare it.

I think a better idea is to make it clear that if you hammer someone you WILL be held responsible for doing so. A hammer is NOT just some other random vote.

On October 22 2012 10:00 vaderseven wrote:
Uh ok the case on me is retarded. There is no case. I havent contributed is being tossed around as a phrase instead hasnt posted much. Someone said me posting my first post of the game in a joking sense was scummy. I am fairly sure at least one scum is voti.g me....

Reread me from any game on this forum and you will note huge day 1 waiting by me followed by a huge ramp up in eagerness to post. I always feel in the dark day 1 and the added info every day adds makes me confident in posting. I dont know what else you guys want me to add.... i dont believe in meta so i am not gonna be likehat guy posted this knd of joke so hes scum... t

On October 20 2012 09:27 drazak wrote:
Of course Hapa, plenty of free time as far as I know, should be posting a bunch. Also a little less afraid to post for various reasons.

On September 19 2012 03:23 drazak wrote:
I like how people keep saying they need to hear more form me when I basically said my posting schedule for today, kind of cracks me up and makes me wonder if people are actually reading others posts, or just skimming them.

So, the first thing I'd like to bring up is that Killingtime said that he doesn't think FoS is good on day one.
       So killingtime, how would you get information d1? Would you just lurk in the shadows and look for someone slip up on their own without bring pressured? FOS forces someone to be pressured into giving an answer, the same as voting for someone. If you don't FOS or vote for people oN D!, you're not doing anything to advance town's agenda. So basically what I'm getting at is:

##FOS Killingtime

Hey diude, what're your top 2 scum picks? Who are your top two town reads? Do you have anyone you'd like to look at more?

As far as looking at Debears goes, I think it's a dead end, I'd definitely like to see his response, but I don't think your reasoning was very good kush, you yourself have show how saying something would look from each perspecting, which is exactly what Debears was doing. IN addition, it's an examination of motives, which is important, everyone has a motive.

I don't really have any questions or other comments, I'll let you know if I do. If I missed some questions aimed at me, let me know, I wish there was a better way to look at a filter of posts that mention me, you know?

On October 20 2012 11:52 Keirathi wrote:

There's nothing to respond to.

Common sense should tell you that if someone makes a dumb hammer that you should look into them. I don't know why you felt the need to specifically talk about it.

Also, its not like there's a specific metric for how "dumb" a hammer is anyways. Its just a judgment call by everyone in the game. If that time comes, we can discuss it then.

I don't think there's anything he could say that could convince me otherwise at this point, and I will push him with everything I've got.

On October 23 2012 09:38 Keirathi wrote:
EBWOP: if ZB is scum, hammering totally makes sense, no matter how bad it is and how much it puts him in the spotlight. Unless he can convince everyone else of a stronger candidate than himself or v7, which I don't think he could, one of them was probably going to die. Might as well take out the townie, and then let people play WIFOM games of "why would scum make a terrible hammer".

On October 22 2012 13:10 DarthPunk wrote:


It is fucking weird Keir.

Last game when pressured as town









Calm, non aggressive, Rational. Town Keir reacting to a case against him. He would appeals to reason rather than emotion. Perhaps this is because he knows he is town and feels that if reason is applied to the case on him it will come undone? Who knows? The point is his reaction to pressure in his previous game as town compared to this one is stark in its differences.






Threatening, abrasive emotional. This game it seems as if keir would rather people apply emotion rather than reason to the much more minor case against him. Perhaps he has some inherent guilt that would cause him to shy away from the revealing light of analytical reasoning.

Whatever there is a stark difference in the manner in which keir has handled the pressure against him this game in comparison to his previous game as town. And it is weird.

As for scum i really like the points that austin brought up about vaderseven. He really talks about himself a lot in his first few posts and not really much at all concerning this game

I wants this sob to talk.

## Vote Vaderseven

Nothing about that "case" was vote worthy. I certainly don't fault people for voting for a guy who wasn't posting at all, but those reasons ZB gave feel extremely forced and fake.

I found it unnecessary to explain v7 the first time around and that's pretty much it.

On October 24 2012 10:27 DarthPunk wrote:
Look at that Vote count. Scum are highly unlikely to bus. Look at who is voting for marv off the bat. 2 of the scummiest players IMO. Unless the keir- marv thing was manufactured I don't see keir being buddies with him. nor austin. Maybe ZB. but honestly shit is looking far too easy.

On October 24 2012 10:36 Hapahauli wrote:


We'll cross that road when we get there. I can see anyone being mafia #2 with marv with the exception of Kei.

And no I don't think bussing is unreasonable here. I think my case is strong, and I think it's worth it for scum to bus here. However, I don't want to go down that road of analysis until I see marv flip for myself.

Hapas case i think is one of the best i have ever seen and marvs refusal to give reads is just the confirmation in my eyes. Despite what he says he is just stalling for as much time as possible in hopes that something happens. I know bullshit when i see and and his request to wait for tomorrow is bullshit.

On October 24 2012 10:36 Hapahauli wrote:


We'll cross that road when we get there. I can see anyone being mafia #2 with marv with the exception of Kei.

And no I don't think bussing is unreasonable here. I think my case is strong, and I think it's worth it for scum to bus here. However, I don't want to go down that road of analysis until I see marv flip for myself.

On October 25 2012 04:48 Hapahauli wrote:
That's stupid. =/

Hurry up I'm bored.

On October 25 2012 05:10 Z-BosoN wrote:


While you are at it read my case very carefully and tell me your thoughts.

Also, read this post as carefully as you possibly can and see if it doesn't give sense to it:
+ Show Spoiler +

Hapa, I so caught your crumb

Hapa, I so read your role

On October 25 2012 10:23 Hapahauli wrote:
Ugh so I have a fever and I need to take a break from the game tonight. This isn't too bad though - I'm far less certain about who scum #2 is and I want to see some other people post and contribute. I'll be fairly lurky tonight, but expect my thoughts near the deadline tomorrow.

@ Z-Bo

Wait how did you know I was boxer if you didn't catch my crumb? Seems kinda hard to read a powerless blue-role like that.

@ DP

To clarify - you know marv flipped scum right? Or are you still catching up?
Also, I don't understand how you think marv outed Z-Bo there. Just because he misrepresented his own actions doesn't mean that he outed someone else.