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@Inig
I find your vote on Dandel to be exceedingly odd. Your first post in D2, and you look at the thread and go "Hey, Alsn has a case on Dandel. I had suspicions of him before, better instantly agree with everything he says." You haven't said anything about Dandel since d1. It seems like you're actively lurking, and waiting for someone to bring up a case so you can sheep off of it. Admittedly, I find Dandel is to be scummy, but not as scummy as I find Djodref. Your post also conveniently avoids my concerns about the two posts being "walls of text" that don't contribute anything.
In regards to the SK thing... I don't see why lynching the SK is ever a bad thing. What's the issue? It is most definitely in towns wincon.
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On October 29 2012 12:30 Inigmaticalism wrote:
k fine im absolutely horrible. Which means rad, debears, Mr CC and/or alsn are the mafia. Good job.
What are you even trying to say here?
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Oh I see a lylo situation... I get it. Scratch that then. I didn't realize we were in that situation.
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@ Rad
Where do you stand on the vote today? Do you find Djo the scummiest? Or Dandel, now that we see his defense?
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@Rad
I don't really like Alsn's premise on Dandel, even if I found the incessant flaming that ensued scummy. Tbh I think the case relies more on WIFOM than cold, hard facts. That's why I'm sticking to my Djo vote. My case against him, Debear's case against him (actually surprised he hasn't switch the vote) both compile a significant number of quotes that really paint the picture that Djo is scum. I find it much more likely that Dandel perchance flip town than Djo.
I also don't like the fact that Inig is the very definition of an active lurking: coming back to the thread and sheeping on the most popular case that suits his interests. He also has done zero scumhunting besides that initial nitpick at dandel d1.
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And on the "where are my scumbuddies" thing. Djo was never in danger of a lynch d1. It was between Da0ud and Inig. Nobody had to defend him. The attention was off.
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Holy meta argument Batbears. Are you saying that Dandel under pressure is basically = Kush in terms of meta?
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My goodness, can we lay off the lylo / SK lynching scenario? What purpose is going into detail about this serving? There is so much crowding of the thread with these hypothetical / speculative scenarios.
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On October 29 2012 13:40 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 13:01 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
And on the "where are my scumbuddies" thing. Djo was never in danger of a lynch d1. It was between Da0ud and Inig. Nobody had to defend him. The attention was off. @ CheeseWell, I respectfully disagree. I've been tunneled by almost all the active players during D1 and nobody defended nor soft-defended me at that time. I believed that I was going to get mislynched. People started to say that they didn't want to lynch quite late during day 1 because I was generating discussion, not because they thought I was townie.
I agree the pressure switch was late. But even still, your other two scumbuddies could have been either the lurkers, or planning to jump on you last minute to avoid suspicion. They didn't have to because of the Da0ud-Inig fiasco that presented itself.
This entire argument however, from both angles, is very speculative and fairly irrelevant.
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@Anyone
Inig makes this comment after I call him out on sheeping the Dandel case, and having posts that don't contribute.
On October 29 2012 12:32 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 12:30 Inigmaticalism wrote:
k fine im absolutely horrible. Which means rad, debears, Mr CC and/or alsn are the mafia. Good job. What are you even trying to say here?
I'm not sure I understand what it means. Can anyone clarify a motivation behind this post?
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@Djo
I've been looking at Inig. I gave this post a while ago, and talked briefly with it about Alsn.
On October 29 2012 02:43 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Here's my promised snippet on Inig One thing I find odd about Inig. Some of his posts are complete walls; walls of speculation and theory that don't really contribute. Look at this post: + Show Spoiler +On October 28 2012 02:48 Inigmaticalism wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2012 01:06 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On October 28 2012 01:02 Djodref wrote:On October 28 2012 00:57 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On October 28 2012 00:52 Djodref wrote:On October 27 2012 23:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On October 27 2012 23:23 Djodref wrote:On October 27 2012 21:52 kushm4sta wrote:
I know he's playing in the game and so am I... the game hasn't started yet though. He needed a fresh breath of pony mafia air because of the depressing shit that happened in this thread.
Djo I have not really put a lot of time into reading the thread and looking at filters, but my primary suspect just from preliminary observations is you.
I think your indecision at lynch time is a huge scumtell. It seems like you know that both of them were going to be town and wanted to gain town points by opposing both lynches. If you were town, and you really thought that none of them were scum, you would have tried to push someone who you actually thought was scum. But you did nothing except ask sylver endless questions with really no point to them. @ Kushscumslip much ? How is that a scumslip, Djo? @ Kush It seems like you know that both of them were going to be town and wanted to gain town points by opposing both lynches.You could have reproached to have known daoud's alignment. But it looks like that you know Ini's alignment. I think I see what you mean now, but he's explaining what he believes is your thought process / motivation, not his own. I can't really claim that to be a scumslip. @ Cheesetownie post: it seems like you knew that both of them would flip town and blabla scumslip post: It seems like you know that both of them were going to be town and blabla But I would agree that it is not a big scumtelll. @EveryoneWhat are your thoughts on this "scumtell". I really can't see it being one. To me (and from what I have actually read) this seems to be the biggest scum-slip so far in the game (regardless of whether it is or isnt). I think this because we do not know anyone's alignments, especially day 1, and kush assumes the case that djo knows I am town, and by doing so indirectly himself as well. And I just got done typing a wifom kind of argument that I love making so much so I deleted it. Granted I find it a bigger slip simply because I know I am town. I have already said how I thought that kush obviously knows what he was doing, and saying something like this from this type of player does not feel like an oversight, and despite me claiming and them having town reads on me you still wouldnt know for certain. This combined with these other cases being brought against him I feel all hold at least a little weight and have me feeling utterly wary of kush, especially his arrogant 'yeah, funny/dumb cases' as his defense. I would like more defenses with less mocking/anger in them, but if that if your playstyle so be it. -Also kush telling of debears talking in other threads and PMs and whatnot up-front seems to discredit debears and give kush credibility by being the 'good guy' and bringing info to the thread. It could be used in a case against debears, for example, but kush just puts it out there. I think the motive seems more about gaining more power and discrediting debears rather than really trying to inform the thread. I think town has very little to gain by knowing this knowledge because it can be taken out of context and any number of ways, and kiush should have just pmed host and be done with it. Now, it could have been a 'what if' or a 'next-step' mindset. Granted some reasons why kush could have had the mindset to say he knows and says djo knows Im town: Ive claimed, kush had town reads on me, djo had changed to more town reads on me, so the setting assumed I was town. The problem I have with calling it a true scum-slip is that kush is in the best position to get lynched because of the mislynch on da0ud, making arguments easier and seemingly hold more power. Added to the fact that my own scum-read wants to off kush now has me mimicking djos feelings on kush (see above post). I need moooooore from kush to solve this, and before I would vote for him. @Djo The longer time goes on, you are slowly losing town credibility with me. Your contribution is high, and frankly this is becoming your game because your posting like a 1/3+ of the posts lol (and have a 10 page filter). For simply this reason I want you still alive because you are so active. Ive liked your recent contributions though, so I just want more solid content from you, rather than being so all over the place. Thats the other thing. Because you are so 'everywhere' but havent ever had really strong opinions on things (besides me for most of day1) it makes your 'unsure trying to be safe townie' look change to a 'careful mafia' look the longer time goes on. Ignore the pokes at you that lack real substance and give us more cases to discuss rather than your play. Your case against me was good, it got me to shape up and post better. And I like this discussion between cheese if it will get deeper. @Mr cheese. Kinda the same read I have with djo. The longer time goes on the more it seems like you are being super neutral/safe. Nothing you post has an edge to it, which while it is a quality I admire, it makes it difficult to really confirm anything with you, which leads to greater suspicions. The only real scum-hunting cases you have had are against da0ud and djo. I thought your arguments against da0ud were good because they were true, da0ud was acting scummy. So dont feel bad about it, keep going on the case with djo and see it you can get anything new. I would really like more so I can solidify my ideas about djo. I honestly find it difficult to comprehend everything he's saying in the first three paragraphs. It's a lot of speculation and "I think's" that don't reveal anything. He's not being strong in his wording. (I.E He is doing this, this is what's happening).The wall of text sure looks like he's contributing... The two @'s on the bottom reveal that he's null/town on me and null/scummy on Djo. Nothing really strong of opinion. + Show Spoiler +On October 28 2012 08:22 Inigmaticalism wrote:@Rad As I said I am utterly wary about kush. And I already posted about him posting about debears pm and about his town knowledge assumption. Here is what I learned reading kush's filter. Until the most recent posts where he has given short descriptions on multiple people, kush has been clear and focused. Case on da0ud, nothing else, takes a stance on me and consistently, in his own words "soft defends" me. And since then has appeared fairly helpful but has mostly been defending himself. This is interesting though. Day1 he explains he does not want to lynch Djo, even though he thinks he looks scummy, giving room to see what he will do (and prods Djo to do so). After Djo appears wishy-washy in the lynch Djo becomes kush's next top scum read. Logical follow-through. And then this and then another post right after Show nested quote +On October 28 2012 02:32 kushm4sta wrote:Djo is #1 acting like my lynch is a certainty when it's definitely not. I have a lot of time to show you guys I am town and I will. #2 Covering his ass if I get mislynched. Yet again. I already told you I will make the case on you at the end of n1. You can defend yourself d2. And you are telling vig to shoot me?? Seriously?? Because I pushed a mislynch d1.. lol that happens almost every game. And it was way better than you who was just liek damn guys I dont know who to lynch TT On October 28 2012 01:43 Djodref wrote:Also if anyone has some questions regarding my case, it might be a good time to discuss about it now  So if you have some points against me that you feel that I didn't correctly addressed, I have a feeling that you guys are considering defense as important as scumhunting so I'm willing to defend myself as much as I can now. @ KushI'm not totally sold on you being scum right now: there is still a possibility for you to be town in my opinion. @ everyoneI would recommend everyone to be wary because it could be very easy for mafia to mislynch Kush right now if he is town. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. I was mafia in my last game and we benefited from the greatest mislynch ever on D2 because nobody took the time to think about the lynch twice. So once again focused. He says he will bring a case against Djo tonight, and I am interested in reading it combined with Mr CCs promised case. I thought kush was just throwing Djo out there but then found this last post I quoted. Conclusion: Kush is a strange new piece of food that Ive never tired before, and Im keeping it at arms length because I dont know if its poisonous or not. The only way to find out is to ask questions, but it seems kush it getting enough heat so Ill only join in if I find anything (besides what I have found) useful. It seems to me that if nothing drastic changes (day post doesnt change much, not really any new cases) kush will be lynched tomorrow based on the overall opinions in the thread. It is my goal for Day 2 to find at least 1 good scum case because I dont think a kush lynch is optimal right now because I feel I do not know enough, and frankly the recent cases against him arent very strong. spcifically @Rad: if you can explain what we could possibly gain from knowing kush was lying about not recognizing debears I would become more interested in the answer. Kush did pretty much talk to debears most on Day 1 after all. This seems more like a summary of recent events than any real input whatsoever. All he says is: "I'm wary of him [Kush], but I do not know enough". It could just be bad town play, but these posts, in addition to a lack of scumhunting, don't seem like an actual contribution at all.
Then I call him out for sheeping on the Dandel case.
On October 29 2012 12:28 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
@Inig
I find your vote on Dandel to be exceedingly odd. Your first post in D2, and you look at the thread and go "Hey, Alsn has a case on Dandel. I had suspicions of him before, better instantly agree with everything he says." You haven't said anything about Dandel since d1. It seems like you're actively lurking, and waiting for someone to bring up a case so you can sheep off of it. Admittedly, I find Dandel is to be scummy, but not as scummy as I find Djodref. Your post also conveniently avoids my concerns about the two posts being "walls of text" that don't contribute anything.
I want to hear him specifically address these points, and give a more valid reason to his vote other than "I agree with Alsn's points, this isn't town behavior." Specific examples / quotes that make him believe Dandel is scum, other than just the sudden flaming.
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EBWOP: Talked briefly about it with Alsn** in the thread.
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The only reason he wasn't modkilled was because he was due to be replaced. If he didn't vote on D1 then he shouldn't be around for d2.
And surprisingly Roco doesn't want to lynch Djo... Why not? Something smells super scummy about this entire situation. A lurker being scumbuddies with Djo just makes too much sense right now, especially with him returning the second he has the possibility of being lynched.
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@Rad
I guess you're right. Still, it's just, ugh. This game, man.
Okay, so I'm really stunned by the return of prodigal son. That said, I really need to get some sleep.
An Important Note
Hurricane Sandy is approaching my front door. I may or may not have power when I wake up. If not, I obviously will not be posting for a while. So, If this is my last post:
Godspeed gentlemen, lynch Djodref.
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Okay, so the weather is getting pretty bad and I'll probably lose power soon. I'm going to make some of my final thoughts clear before that happens. This just may be my Last Will.
We need to lynch Djodref today!
He has two official cases against him by myself and Debears, and nearly everyone in the thread has a scumread on him. He is the scummiest looking person in this thread by far. The fact that Roco comes back inconspicuously and defends him by voting Dandel is also huge. So, Inig seems scummy, Dandel seems scummy-- But Djodref is the common factor. In most people's eyes in this thread, he has, at the very least, a good potential to be scum. And in my eyes, he has the highest potential.
+ Show Spoiler +On October 28 2012 08:30 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:MY OPINION ON DJODREF
A compilation of quotes, and reasons why I believe he is guilty By: Mr. Cheesecake _____________________________________________________________________________________________________ The Scumslip+ Show Spoiler +On October 25 2012 18:25 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 18:09 da0ud wrote:On October 25 2012 17:52 Djodref wrote:
I'm insisting on this because it was not my mentality at all at the beginning of NMMXVIII, you case see this in my quotes in debear previous posts. I want the "scared" newbies (like daoud) to boost their confidence and go scumhunt. I am not scared anymore... And I will hunt you down this time if I have to daoudGood ! I'm not planning on defending you this game so I expect you to do your job as town What's your take on the Rad-debears argument by the way? Here is the infamous scumslip by Djo, he refers to Da0ud explicitly as town (who we now know IS town). There is little to say here: How does Djo know Da0ud is town? He doesn't even have a reason to think he's town. He even votes for Da0ud which I will address later. Furthermore, Djo provides us with the weakest defense for a scumslip ever: On October 25 2012 18:40 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 18:30 da0ud wrote:
EBWOP : How would you already know I am town ? I don't know already if you are town or not. I've spoken too fast because I was thinking of our last game where you were town. It was a slip, but not a scumslip Regarding Roco, I understand your hunch but he reminds me your first weird posts last game. He is suspicious but he doesn't deserve red bold font yet imo ^^ All he says is "Not a scumslip, please move along" and plays it off like no big deal with a characteristic smiley and ^^. This explanation is nowhere near adequate enough to address the issue. On October 25 2012 18:31 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 17:57 Roco69 wrote:
@djodref
To keep it simple, "lurker policy on D1" seems to be a well known and basic strategy so I will do the exact opposite,=>so I will never be suspected.
@RocoI have more questions for you. Why do you want to never be suspected ? Are you mafia ? I first picked up on this in my original FoS post. Why would you ask someone explicitly if they are mafia? What is even the PURPOSE of this? Is he attempting to arouse suspicion for Roco? On October 26 2012 01:12 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 01:00 sylverfyre wrote:
And Djo, you claim "no i asked him two questions" when both questions are basically the same.
debears case against Rad is developing interestingly, but Rad has a point - why are you trying so hard to save the lurkers? @sylverI'm sorry but not wanting to look suspicious is totally natural from a townie, especially from a total newbie. Adding the second question was only to make him uncomfortable if he was mafia. How on God's green Earth would asking someone if they are mafia make them uncomfortable? All a scum player would need to rebuke it is: No. There is zero town motivation for asking someone if they are mafia. It is obvious from the very beginning that Djo is suspicious of Ini. He asks everyone about what they think of him. Firstly: Why would Djo care what anyone else thinks? If his scum read were strong enough, he'd have the confidence (there's that word again...) to make a case without input from a third party. Secondly: He sometimes asks these questions in context of something else, as if to brush off some accusation against him. On October 25 2012 18:51 Djodref wrote:
@daoud
What do you think about Ini ? On October 25 2012 23:21 Djodref wrote:
@debears
If you are around, I would like to know what do you think about Inig first posts. On October 26 2012 01:21 Djodref wrote:
I don't think that debears is advocating chaos. In my point of view, he is certainly promoting discussion. We could as well being still discussing policy lynches if he wasn't here. And please remind that it's quite easy for mafia to avoid a policy lynch.
By the way, do you believe that we can lynch a scum on D1 ?
What do you think of Inig ? He throws out two questions, one of them being about inig. What does Inig have anything to do with the discussion at hand? The only reason I can see for it is an attempt to derail the thread into something about Inig. On October 26 2012 08:25 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 02:40 Alsn wrote:
My reasons for thinking Djodref is slightly scummy so far is that he is asking a lot of questions. That in itself isn't particularly scummy(in fact, done right it's pro-town as it pressures people into sharing their opinions and such).
The problem I have with it so far is that you keep asking people to answer you, yet your own statements so far amount to picking on the people who are being lurky(Ini, Roco) while at the same time criticising Rad for supporting lurker policy lynch?! This makes no sense to me. This in combination with the slip leads me to believe that you are trying to make yourself look good by being active. I can definitely see the possibility of there being town motivations for your actions so far, but I'd just like to point out that I have my eye on you.
So, with that in mind, FoS Djodref.
I'll see if I can't take a look at some of the other things said so far before I go to bed but if not, I'll do it first thing tomorrow as I will have a lot more time then. @AlsnI would expect more from you than an half-assed FoS on me 
What do you think about Inig ? He completely brushes off the FoS from Alsn and asks about Inig instead. On October 26 2012 10:15 Djodref wrote:
Honestly, I don't really care if Alsn has a FoS on me if it is for the reasons he has stated in his post. I know he is totally able to come at me with something more consistent if he really thinks I'm scum. Right now, I think his reasons are poor and I'm more interested in his opinion about Ini. AGAIN, brushing off the FoS from Alsn, in favor of pursing interests of Ini. These questions are nothing more than attempts to deflect discussion, away from him or otherwise, onto something else. On October 26 2012 01:31 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 01:24 debears wrote:On October 26 2012 01:10 Clarity_nl wrote:
@debears
You've used the word confidence an excessive amount of times. When someone mentioned day 1 policy lynches you immediately dismissed the idea. In fact, whenever anyone suggested something you turned it down, pushing your idea of "if you have a read, push it hard"
Policy lynching on day 1 exists for a reason. Lurkers hurt the town, whether they are mafia or town. If no one takes action mafia will win. Town needs to be organized and decisive, yet you are suggesting to basically follow your gut and push hard.
You follow that up by voting for Rad WAAAAAAY too early in the day.
You are advocating chaos.
If something is fishy, or a comment seems off, make a read or ask a question about it, but big bold statements like "be confident guys!!!" don't actually mean anything.
##FoS debears Do you see the contradiction in that statment clarity/ You want town to be decisive, yet when I am (by pursuing a scumread) you FOS me for it? Are you reading the damn thread? The confidence thing isn't my only contribution. Figure it out Ugh Djo Y u answering questions addressed to me??? I'm still feeling bad for tunneling until death last game I even didn't have the balls to state that I had changed my mind about you at the end. As I feel some townie vibes from you in this game, I thought I could at least defend you this one time. debears <3 This is an outright appeal to emotion. He's feeling bad about last game, sure. Why bring it up? It bears no significance to anything in the thread other than making us feel bad for him. He even gives Debears a <3... really? On October 27 2012 08:56 Djodref wrote:
## Vote daoud
Because his involvement in this game has not been great so far... Please note that this is the entire vote post. This is 100% completely contradictory to everything Djo has previously said / advocated about Inig. He had a case on Inig, he was always asking those questions about him. Inig was, apparently, his biggest scum read. Why the sudden 180 degree turn and vote for Da0ud? It makes no sense whatsoever, and his explanation for dropping the vote was "I'm really starting to doubt myself about Inig's case..." and his reason for voting Da0ud is: "his involvement hasn't been great." Hardly enough to justify a revote. On October 27 2012 08:00 Djodref wrote:
@ Cheese
What the fuck are you doing with your vote still on my back ?
Come in the thread and choose who you want to lynch today between daoud and Ini. Tell us your reasons about it ! Here he advocates that I choose a side on the Da0ud-Inig debate, which I eventually did once I returned. Also: why is he so paranoid about my vote on him? On October 27 2012 17:53 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 08:20 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Okay I just got back, and will be here pre and post lynch.
My thoughts on the current state of affairs. It seems the lynch is in favor of Inig, but Da0ud following close behind. My vote on Djo is obviously not doing any good. I still consider him suspicious, and he is by no means off the hook. My efforts right now are better spent deciding who is a better lynch candidate: Da0ud or Inig.
/snip
@ CheeseAt this point, were you considering that daoud and Inig were better candidate than me ? You have been suspecting me for quite a long time D1 and you suddenly prefer to lynch daoud because some replacement came in and told you he was scummy ? You alsmost didn't consider him at all until that point yet you have no problem with lynching him instead of your top scumread (which was me) ? I'm pretty surprised that you didn't try to push my lynch. This post contradicts the previous. He explicitly TOLD me to weigh in on the debate and cast my vote for one of the others. Why the heck is he calling me out for it? Is this not what he asked for from me? On October 27 2012 23:19 Djodref wrote:
As you can see, I was a little more than your best scumread. Nevertheless, you gave little to no protest about lynching daoud or ini over me. Big scumtell in my book.
And here Djo is trying to further his case about my vote of Da0ud. There is a portion after the lynch where I try to explain to him that my biggest scumread was still on him. That pursuing his case at the time would have produced nothing; that I voted for Da0ud because he looked scummier than Inig; Check either of our filters about it. (page 38ish of the thread). He seems sour that I have a scumread / FoS on him and a vote most of the day. This entire ploy to discredit me is baseless, and likely an attempt to thwart my future attempts at scum hunting him. Admittedly some of it is defense, his filter is huge and he's talking on absolutely every page. The thread doesn't need to know every thought that pops in your head. A large majority is just casual conversation without his own input on certain subjects. Is this an attempt to bury logical arguements? He's trying to post a lot to seem like he's contributing, but I find most of his questions/concerns pointless. Take the "scumtell on Kush" post. I don't think anyone in the thread thought it was a scumtell, but he made a fuss over it. Look at who Djodref has suspicions (FoS's) on. Me and Sylverfyre. I oppose him, and Sylverfyre has tunneled him hard. His best scum reads are on people that find him highly suspicious! What does this say? He's scared. He's scared and replying by digging up any dirt he can on us.
After synthesizing all of what you have posted Djo, the jig is up. You are SCUM
+ Show Spoiler +On October 29 2012 03:51 debears wrote:wow lol posted it in the last newbie. Thrawn we did the same thing :/ fuck me lol A Second case on Djo Since my first case, Djo hasn't done much to help my read on him. In fact, after rereading his filter again, I'd say my scumread on him is even stronger. Points in the original case/cases1) Stated and Acted as though he had a town read on me day 1, then denies it when pressured by Rad 2) His two scumslips (slips as he calls them) - Dau0d town comment and the slip when talking about Alsn's fOS 3) Wanting me to "Take care of Rad" day 1 The Day 1 lynchFirst, I want to point out his indecisiveness and apparent apathy to who he wanted lynched. Djo's first actual pursuit was Inig. He was pressing on Inig pretty well. However, when asked who he would want to lynch, he says Sylver (with his vote on Inig) Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 00:51 Djodref wrote:On October 27 2012 00:42 kushm4sta wrote:
More on daoud:
He seems much more careful about what he says this game than last game.
Last games his posts were like WTF is this weird guy talking about.
This game they look like he doesn't want to catch anyone's attention.
Why we shouldn't lynch djodref today:
He does look pretty scummy. But I don't see how anyone can have a lot of certainty in that read.
Combination of high activity and low certainty means he should not lynch him.
Also realize that djodref is in a position where he NEEDS to evolve his meta whether he is town or scum.
His first game he played as a noob, understandable because it was his first game. His second game, he pretended to be a noob as a scum strat. I think showing that he is better than the newb he pretended to be last game would be the natural play for town djodref, and also scum djodref trying to appear as town djodref.
Djo: who out of the active players seems scummiest to you? Also why did you bring up how you want to lynch a lurker without even trying to pressure your scumreads? @KushDebears and Rad are looking quite ok. I'm leaning town for both of them. I'm waiting for Cheese to post what he has to say about me because I'm still null on him. I didn't like some posts from sylver but he had some nice reactions during our latest fight. I need some time to look at dandel. I didn't like the way he voted Inig, but he said he was not sure even. I would say sylver right now... But I've been spending too much time defending myself. I need to calm down and re-read some filters for a while. A couple of posts later, he unvotes and states why he doesn't want to lynch Inig suddenly. Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 01:03 Djodref wrote:
Regarding an Inig's lynch, I'm not comfortable with it...
In my opinion, he had a positive response after my case against him. I doubt that he could be a scum after that. His role claim was looking really sincere. If he can improve his presence in the thread and his scumhunting, I don't want to lynch him. I'm going to unvote him.
I would cast my vote on Roco or imcasey if they magically reappear. I'll wake up early tomorrow to see if the bandwagon is still against me or not.
If you are town, do not sheep and cast your vote against me. Read my filter and make your own opinion by yourself.
You are going to feel some heat if you cast your vote too lightly because I'm going to flip green.
I'm sorry but I need some sleep guys
## Unvote
That's quite the turnaround after the pressure and vote Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 08:20 Djodref wrote:
@debears
No, I'm not comfortable with any of the lynches to be honest. I'm looking at their filter over and over again and try to find some little clues...
Regarding Inig, I should vote him if I was only a rational machine (no scumhunting at the beginning, wishy washy on Cheese, voting imcasey unexpectedly, the slip you have found, etc...) but I feel him as sincere in his posts.a
Not sure why he claimed though.
Regarding daoud, I have no reasons to vote for him at the exception of his hasty vote. His only reason for not voting Inig was that Inig seemed "sincere". In fact, he said that it would be rational to lynch Inig based on his posting. That one post is a huge contradiction. Notice how during his time, he puts suspicion on Sylver. Also, notice the timing of the unvote. He unvoted when there were other people agreeing with his case. That's really weird combined with the "he's sincere" reasoning on Inig. Djo's approach on Dau0dDespite Djo's suspicions on Inig and Sylver, he ends up voting Dau0d. Why? Lets see Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 08:56 Djodref wrote:
## Vote daoud
Because his involvement in this game has not been great so far... Not the greatest reasoning. He does provide some reasoning right after though. Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 08:56 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On October 27 2012 08:46 debears wrote:
Bad word choice on my part. Bad = weak in my post.
And the same points on inig and dauod.
1) semi lurker
2) town reads/ percent town reads
3) generally blending in
Give me Allow me to ameliorate for you, sir. 1.) Inig was a semi lurker to begin with. As of late, he has been posting more and with greater content. Da0ud, on the other hand, has contributed much less and is still lurking. 2.) Let's look at both of their percentage town reads. Inigs:On October 26 2012 16:17 Inigmaticalism wrote:
I would label Djo as like 70% town. Hes been consistent and contributing. I think hes gone after me too long to be mafia. He has talked an awful lot though. Its probably more likely, with all his questions and style of scumhunting, thats hes a vigi or SK or something like that, seeing who he can get lynched (who he thinks is scum if hes vigi, etc), and then who he cant hes found his night targets. Just a thought.
Da0ud's:On October 26 2012 22:41 da0ud wrote:
Talking about smileyDjo he has put a lot of pressure on people. Asking open questions etc. For having played a game with him where he played to nice lovable newbie card, I believe he is trying to step up and actually be a leader for town. I put him 90% town.
Inig has more reason for considering Djo town, and puts it at 70% (leaning town). He says he's been consistent, obviously posting alot, and going after him of all people. He likes this, and even offers some counter-roles that he could be instead of mafia. Da0ud on the other hand only says "hey, he's asking questions, must be 90% (almost definitely town)" I find Da0uds reasons for thinking Djo town less plausible than Inigs, and he almost considers him town. 3.) Inig has been more distinguished in asking questions / contributing. His theory on Dandel is intriguing and unique, and something I may want to follow up on in the future. His vote of imcasey and Dandel is anything BUT blending in. Notice his reasoning. It's literally almost the same for Inig. Yet, he feels that Inig was "more distinguished in asking questions/contributing". I don't get it. Also, he didn't think Dau0d's meta was different than Dau0d's town game when he posted this earlier. Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 00:53 Djodref wrote:
Regarding daoud, I don't want to lynch him because he has reacted quite fast and naturally to my slip.
Him posting some nonsense about the possibility of a SK just after totally fits his meta.
He needs to post a lot more though... He flip-flopped onto Dau0d after kush's case while spreading suspicion onto 2 other plays (slyverfyre and Inig). His reasoning for moving his suspicion around was poor at the best. To me, it seems like he didn't care who got lynchedHammering CheeseCake for the Switched VoteThis was posted after the lynch Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 17:53 Djodref wrote:On October 27 2012 08:20 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Okay I just got back, and will be here pre and post lynch.
My thoughts on the current state of affairs. It seems the lynch is in favor of Inig, but Da0ud following close behind. My vote on Djo is obviously not doing any good. I still consider him suspicious, and he is by no means off the hook. My efforts right now are better spent deciding who is a better lynch candidate: Da0ud or Inig.
/snip
@ CheeseAt this point, were you considering that daoud and Inig were better candidate than me ? You have been suspecting me for quite a long time D1 and you suddenly prefer to lynch daoud because some replacement came in and told you he was scummy ? You alsmost didn't consider him at all until that point yet you have no problem with lynching him instead of your top scumread (which was me) ? I'm pretty surprised that you didn't try to push my lynch. Isn't this similar to what Djo did? Yet Djo is calling him out for it? Djo had no considerations of Dau0d until the kush case was posted. Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 23:19 Djodref wrote:"That being said, you were my best scum read at the time; but there was no chance of you being lynched." @ CheeseHere is a quote from you. On October 26 2012 12:50 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
/snip
The constant asking for info on Ingi / diverting attention, his useless "are you mafia?" question that I pointed out earlier, the inability to adequately answer some of the accusations/questions thrown at him. It doesn't add up. Actually, it does add up. I'm thinking he's scum. I've had a FoS on you for quite some time now, Djodref. Time to upgrade it.
##Vote: Djodref As you can see, I was a little more than your best scumread. Nevertheless, you gave little to no protest about lynching daoud or ini over me. Big scumtell in my book. Have a look at debears reactions when people started to vote daoud. He was trying to push his case until the end.This commitment is a big towntell. Where was your reaction when you came back to thhe tread and realized that a lynch on me was "not possible" ? No protest, no comments about other people being stupid or whatever, not trying to push my lynch. And you proceeding to compare the percentage daoud and Ini were giving for their townread on me to decide who to lynch between the two... do you have any comments to do on this ? FoS Cheese Yet again, a FOS for hypocritical reasoning. Not only did Djo drop his top scumread for poor reasoning, he voted for Dau0d for poor reasoning. And now he's spreading suspicion on CheeseCake. This post, however, is the kicker Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 08:00 Djodref wrote:
@ Cheese
What the fuck are you doing with your vote still on my back ?
Come in the thread and choose who you want to lynch today between daoud and Ini. Tell us your reasons about it ! Djo told him to change his vote in the first place!!!!!!!!!! Then, he tries to accuse Cheese of scum since Cheese did it???? Wow. MetaDjo has little meta to go on with only 2 games. However, there are differences from his town game and scum game. These differences, related to this game, are not damning by any means, but do support that Djo could be scum. 1) Djo is capable of being active as scum. His filter was roughly 9 pgs as scum in Looney 2)His case format this game compared to his other games http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372945¤tpage=58#1147 - Game as scum http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=374466¤tpage=23#441 - this game Look at the shocking similarities. Now, this could be how he likes to post now, since this is only his 3rd game. However, in looking at his first newbie as cop, no posts have the same format (Correct me if I'm wrong on this Djo) 3) Personality - Djo's personality this game is similar to his other games as cop and mafia. Take out the newbie card play, and he sounds the same in all 3. Thus, his personality is a null tell, but it mean that he can be mafia A Common FallacyI think this game has fallen into the trap of activity = town. That is not always the case. Take a long hard look at Djo's filter and this case. His filter is huge and it was a bitch to go through. Mafia can hide in a big filter. Djo is my number 2 scum read besides Dandel right now. I still need to see if Dandel even comes back (and defends himself properly + has something to contribute) before I would think of voting Djo. Let me know if you need clarification on anything. Reading Djo's filter + writing out the case = sucks
These are two main cases against him.
Djodref looks waaaay scummier than Dandel at this point. Why? Cold, hard facts. There has been thorough investigation of Djodref, and the only real case against Dandel has been based on some WIFOM, the fact that he hasn't really contributed and "wanted to lynch an SK" which I still don't fully understand.
Djodref is SCUM, and every person here can see it in at least some way or another.
Everyone kept saying on Day 1 that "If he's scum, then he'll show it eventually." Well, guess what, he has. He's even trying to get out of his lynch by pressuring the favorable scumread (Dandel), and giving completely hypocritical reasons as why we should lynch him (I.E. didn't pressure top scumread [Ini]at the end of d1 ----> Djo didn't EITHER!) The mountain of evidence against Djodref is colossal in comparison to Dandel or Inig. He must be lynched TODAY!
To the folks in this thread -- We are keeping Djodref around too long, and affording him the chance to clutter up the thread with nonsense. Ask yourselves: Do we really want him to slip through our fingers again? He has shown himself time and time again to be scum. Gentlemen, I'm counting on you to make the correct decision in this matter.
I don't have much time before this hurricane veritably destroys my internet connection. In the midst of this, I bid you adieu.
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Guys, I'm back! Sandy was a bitch, but I've got power back and am cleaning up the mess (tree across my backyard, etc...).
I see Djo was lynched -- and town?? Wow. What is happening with this game...
Other concerns: It seems there was a lot of movement towards me at the last second and I'm not sure exactly why. I see Nack had some concerns about me, and it seems like a lot of people (the lurkers) sheeped onto it for the swing vote. The motivations behind this from them really deserve an explanation. Roco/Inig have obviously been reading the thread, but not contributing at all. Inig contributes here and there when he sees fit. This behavior, and especially the last minute votes, are indicative of active lurking--one of the scummiest traits available. (Although, I have no clue WHY they would choose to vote like this...)
I'm especially suspicious of Inig at this point since I've accused him of active lurking prior to this, and he refuses to defend himself. Maybe he was sour, voted for me because I was calling him out, and wanted me dead. As for Roco, I really don't know what to make of him. He's the lurkiest person I've ever seen and has been slipping under the radar because we thought he was going to be replaced / mk'd.
For now, until I can get some clarity to the reasons behind Inig's motives,
##FoS: Inig
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EBWOP: If anyone has any questions for me, ask them now. Catching up on the specifics earlier in the thread.
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On October 31 2012 00:03 debears wrote:
@Rad
Part of the dilemma we have right now is Inig and Roco right now
They are
1) Purposely playing the worst games as town I've ever seen (not playing to win)
2) Scum playing to win
1 is entirely possible since this is a newbie game. If they are town, maybe they should have /obs'd this one.
2 might be true, but if so Roco has the worst scum tactic ever because everyone knows lurking heavily is a scum trait. Inig at least posts some content / sheeps to blend in or seem logical.
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On October 31 2012 00:11 Rad wrote:
I agree that we can't base anything just on djo's one statement. What I was getting at was there are other ways to try to get a read on inig and roco. We have a bunch of dead townies now. What did they think about inig and roco before they were killed?
This is an interesting notion. I'll look through the deceased's filters to see what I can find about them. On a general note, I know roco day1 wasn't well-received.
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Here is what the dead town thinks about Roco and Inig.
Kush's thoughts about Inig:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 27 2012 04:54 kushm4sta wrote:
Inig's posts have improved. Recently he has been sharing his thoughts like crazy.
The cases against him: I think these are examples of mistakes that newbie townie could easily make.
He is a null/town read atm. I don't want to lynch him. Consider this a soft defense. On October 27 2012 08:50 kushm4sta wrote:
So to summarize the case against inig:
1 Lack of strong scumreads (especially early)
2 Multitude of half assed, inconclusive suspicions
3 Reliance on town reads
I can see a first timer easily doing any of these things.
Summary: He thinks Inig is newbie town. Null tell.
Da0ud's thoughts on Roco:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 25 2012 18:29 da0ud wrote:
@debears
I do like your attitude in putting a case up against Rad at the moment and I mostly agree on the content and arguments behind.
However, I do believe you are getting a bit to enthusiastic at the moment. Try to remain a little bit open-minded at the beginning of the game. You don't want to put all your focus on Rad and forget about the others.
I would encourage other people to participate more in order to have a clearer picture on who wants what, and how they plan to scum-hunt.
Anyway, your attitude gives me a townie-read on you, deabers.
Neutral on Rad and Djo.
I, however have a scum first hunch on Roco and his weird post, where he seem to encourage people not to post: less posts => less information => good for mafia.
Da0ud's thoughts about Inig:On October 26 2012 22:41 da0ud wrote:
Ebwop : sorry phone posting. Ill finsih the post :
Deb and rad have been so active and poking at each otjers that they actually look very townie to me. Pushing ideas, bringing content, putting pressure.
Talking about smileyDjo he has put a lot of pressure on people. Asking open questions etc. For having played a game with him where he played to nice lovable newbie card, I believe he is trying to step up and actually be a leader for town. I put him 90% town.
I totally hate the lurkers who actually do not post anything and hide to avoid potential suspicions. Id rather lynch lurking townie first day who doesn't help get info and push others to scumslip.
If scum are among active player we will have time to hunt them down. They will contradict themselves.
And we have semi lurkers like roco or blending ini. Which are pretty much as bad for town.
I would like to put my vote on Ini at the moment cause roco seems like a total newbie trying to stand out.
##Vote Ini
Summary: Has ill-feelings about both early game. Thinks Roco is scum because of his first two posts, votes Inig because of semi-lurking / blending in.
Clarity's thoughts on Inig:
On October 26 2012 01:51 Clarity_nl wrote:
Inig is odd so far. His posts are all blank statements that don't further discussion. This is generally a scum trait but can be found in newer players as well. Saying things like Rad and debears should "watch out for eachother" because they come from different angles or pointing out that someone asked a good question.
Summary: Inig posts "blank statements that don't further discussion". Could be scum / newbie town.
Sylverfyre on lynching Inig / Roco
+ Show Spoiler +On October 25 2012 22:15 sylverfyre wrote:
Let me also be clear: Opposing a policy and opposing the specific instance of a policy being enacted are two entirely different things. Just because I'm not opposed to Lynch a Lurker doesn't mean I think we should invoke it automatically. But if we were closer to lynch time, and Ini and Roco still only had the posts they have... I'd vote for one of them. By not responding adequately to accusations made against you, you give the town very little to work with.
On October 26 2012 02:43 sylverfyre wrote:
Really wanna see some of the quiet ones post more (Thanks Clarity, for speaking up! Figured it was just a matter of 'haven't been on yet' in the case of 0posters.) especially Ini and Roco, who posted a little (Ini dodged my question, which I don't fault him for because the question was kindof a shitty one anyway - but not a lot of meaty content and in Roco's case, some rather confusing/questioanble tactics which I already stated I consider anti-town.
If/when 24 hours pass since Roco's last comment and he hasn't put any meat into his stance, I'm going to vote him.
Summary: Thinks Inig/Roco aren't explaining well / being quiet posters, would lynch one of them. (later votes Roco)
These posts really don't say anything more than we don't already know concerning Inig and Roco: Inig or Roco could be elusive scum or newbie town.
What they do reveal, however, is that the rest of the town see's how inactive they both are being, and realize their potential for being scum. I don't believe anyone has a good thing to say about either of them. It's also interesting that Roco and Inig are referred to in the same context as we are discussing right now. They are being lumped together as one person, sort of, being lurky and blending in.
So, the dead town pretty much agrees with us on Inig / Roco earlier in the game. They see them as scummy / lurky. Kush is the really only one who takes a firm stance on Inig being newbie town. Thoughts?
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EPT
