|
On October 29 2012 12:28 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
@Inig
I find your vote on Dandel to be exceedingly odd. Your first post in D2, and you look at the thread and go "Hey, Alsn has a case on Dandel. I had suspicions of him before, better instantly agree with everything he says." You haven't said anything about Dandel since d1. It seems like you're actively lurking, and waiting for someone to bring up a case so you can sheep off of it. Admittedly, I find Dandel is to be scummy, but not as scummy as I find Djodref. Your post also conveniently avoids my concerns about the two posts being "walls of text" that don't contribute anything.
In regards to the SK thing... I don't see why lynching the SK is ever a bad thing. What's the issue? It is most definitely in towns wincon.
@ Cheese
Lynching a possible SK today would be terribad. Check my previous posts about it, it makes you go from 5vs3vs1 to 4vs3. If you want me to detail you why 4vs3 is the worst situation ever, I can elaborate.
And I would like to remind you that we are not even sure that Roco is going to survive and he could also be town ad far as we know.
|
Regarding the introduction of Alsn's case, I think you should pay attention to it.
During D1, I have been accused by him but also by sylverfire, Cheese, Rad, debears and even the late Clarity was ill-disposed towards me. The only ones who were having town reads on me are daoud which we know was town and Ini but this one is not really defending me at all. I had to talk my way out of my lynch alone and it was not an easy task.
So I ask you, where are my fucking scumbuddies ?
If you ask yourself this question, you might be able to draw the same conclusion that Alsn did. It's not pure WIFOM.
|
On October 29 2012 12:36 Rad wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 12:30 Djodref wrote:@ RadCheck this out, I have already posted it but w/e... On October 29 2012 11:04 Djodref wrote:
There is no town player wanting to lynch a SK in a 5vs3vs1 situation because it brings you to a 4vs3 situation the following day. 4vs3 is the worst situation you can ever get for town. Lylo situation are always tricky but on this one the 4 town players have to vote for the same mafia player or else town loses. I would be surprised that town dandel did not consider that.
Conclusion, dandel is scum It's not dandel first game. I guess he knows about the risks of a lylo. Ok so let's say we have 5v3v1. Town lynches town, SK kills town. 3v3v1 Is that a better situation than 4v3 with no SK?
@ Rad
Ok, I get your point, but you are only considering the worst possibility. Nothing says that we cannot find a scum if we decide not to lynch a SK and the SK would try to kill a mafia more than anything else during the night. That's why any town player should go for scum today instead of going for the SK.
Moreover, getting rid of the SK is a high priority for the mafia because he can kill them.
|
[QUOTE]On October 29 2012 12:11 Dandel Ion wrote:
/snip
"Hey-guys-we-didn't-do-any-NK-speculations-yet" Djodref:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 29 2012 10:14 Djodref wrote:
Regarding dandel, I've found him very quick to accuse me as a SK at the beginning of D2. I know that he is saying that I'm SK or scum but his posts strongly imply that I'm more SK than scum (he brings thrawn meta in and says I'm more likely to be SK than scum). It makes a lot of sense from a mafia point of view.
It's true that I didn't consider the fact that Kush could have been killed by the mafia and that I have found a possible reason for the mafia to have targeted sylverfire quite fast. It was obvious for me that mafia would never had killed Kush because of my experience of the last game. Correct me if I'm wrong but Kush is never NKed by the mafia when he rolls town.
Anyway, I should have looked like I had some extra information about the night kills. So, from a mafia point of view, I really should be looking like a SK. I find it very strange that dandel didn't wait that long for a vig to claim. Getting a SK lynched is good for the image I guess so he comes at me very fast with a weird meta argument to support the fact that could be SK.
[u]To sum up[u]
Scum dandel knows that I'm not going to flip scum. Reacting to an apparent extra information about the NKs from my side, he comes at me very fast saying that I'm SK (not waiting for a claim, backing it up with poor arguments). He doesn't have the time to go through 18 pages of Thrawn's filter. Seriously, it makes so much sense !
Town dandel would have reacted slower to an apparent extra information about the NKs from my side. It doesn't tell if I'm scum or SK (please check Cheese reaction to see the difference). His reaction could have been possible but it makes less sense.
##Unvote
##Vote Dandel
You keep implying that I came after you "very fast", but that is a straight up lie. I gave you EASILY enough time to claim.
I ask: "Is there something you want to tell us?"
You seem to not want to tell us anything out of your own accord, so OVER 10 HOURS LATER, I make my post where I accuse you of being scum/SK.
(This could've been avoided if Rad was faster at claiming, but better late than never.)
You, Djo, will be happy to hear that I don't think you're the SK anymore, and you went back to being only Scum to me.
You somehow arrive at how I "don't have the time to look through thrawn's filter", and I don't even know how you got to that assumption, or how it's relevant at all. But it's now redundant anyways. Honestly though, I probably couldn't point out a single collection of posts and point at it saying "this is where I got my scum/SK read on him", because he didn't have any obvious slips in there. He just posted a metric shitton and I always got a scummy feel off his posts. Which is pretty much what I get from you, only you post things that are slips, or at least look like them to me.
Your "case", or post, or however you want to call it, is oddly similar to Alsn's too, in that 50% of it is speculation and WIFOM, which should have no place in there, and which I suspect is there only so that it makes it look like you had anything to actually base your read on. But I haven't seen anything.
Oh, and I'm going to say this again, I was pushing for your lynch because you were either scum or SK. The chance of you flipping town are and were incredibly slim in my mind.
@ dandel
I'm discarding the post you have quoted. I have admitted that I was wrong on the time frame already and I agree that I have said some bullshit in this post. But I don't understand why you don't address my other posts about you, which have much stronger evidence.
By the way, you were not pushing my lynch because I was either scum or SK (like Cheese did) but you were pushing my lynch because I was SK or scum.
|
@ Rad
First of all, I would like to say that I'm a Vanilla Townie so I have nothing to claim to save my ass. Believe me or not, but I'm no SK and I'm no mafia. But it's not relevant for the subject I have to discuss.
Considering that 2 blues are already dead and that you have no more bullets, I'm pretty sure that there is only VTs or equivalent right now. We cannot expect any save or vigilante kill.
Let's assume that we have an confirmed SK and I think that I was close to be a confirmed SK in dandel's eyes.
If town lynches the SK, you end up for sure at 4vs3 on D3. It is the worst lylo situation ever. You need basically to have a confirmed mafia player to expect survive the day, and then you have 2 more lylo at D4 (3vs2) and at D5 (2vs1). Given our current situation (town full of lurkers and newbies), I don't imagine us getting our way out a 4vs3 lylo.
If town decides not to lynch the SK, it is possible that we end up in a 3vs3vs1 situation at D3 but it is neither is the interest or town nor in the interest of the SK. We have much more opportunities to get rid of the scum this way (lynch or night kill by the SK).
Now, if we compare 4vs3 or 3vs3vs1, I think that the situations are equally bad. The SK has to team up with the town anyway at this point or it is game over for him. I don't know what would happen if we get out a 3vs3vs1 situation because I don't know what the SK would do.
Lynching the SK is at best sub-optimal play from town but I tend to think that it is anti-town.
And I cannot add enough how it fits a mafia agenda because they are sure to get to lylo instead of risking to lose one of their members.
|
On October 29 2012 13:01 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
And on the "where are my scumbuddies" thing. Djo was never in danger of a lynch d1. It was between Da0ud and Inig. Nobody had to defend him. The attention was off.
@ Cheese
Well, I respectfully disagree. I've been tunneled by almost all the active players during D1 and nobody defended nor soft-defended me at that time. I believed that I was going to get mislynched.
People started to say that they didn't want to lynch quite late during day 1 because I was generating discussion, not because they thought I was townie.
|
@ debears
I did not say he was not right about the possibility of an SK and I can even understand that he thought I was SK.
First point: I'm saying that it is easier for mafia to suspect someone of being SK rather than being scum.
Second and main point: it is anti-town and pro-mafia to push a lynch on a SK in this situation.
|
On October 29 2012 13:44 Rad wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 13:40 Djodref wrote:On October 29 2012 13:01 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
And on the "where are my scumbuddies" thing. Djo was never in danger of a lynch d1. It was between Da0ud and Inig. Nobody had to defend him. The attention was off. @ CheeseWell, I respectfully disagree. I've been tunneled by almost all the active players during D1 and nobody defended nor soft-defended me at that time. I believed that I was going to get mislynched. People started to say that they didn't want to lynch quite late during day 1 because I was generating discussion, not because they thought I was townie. You had some pressure on you d1 but I don't think you were at risk of getting lynched. Multiple people had said "he inputs enough good conversation, if he's scum he'll slip up at some point" and for whatever reason, we all moved on to inig and da0ud. You may have been scared early on but you know you weren't scared at all the last hours before the lynch. Hell, you even called cheese out about why his vote was still on you because obviously you weren't a lynch candidate at that point. Also you need to stop about the "no one defended me" garbage. We had 2 lurkers then and we have the same 2 lurkers now (1 replaced with a new person, but same role in this game). Also, you just haven't needed a scum buddy to take your side until right now, and it's super dangerous to do so at this point.
@ Rad
I know that it is not a good point to bring out but you have to understand my frustration about this. That's why I was so relieved when Alsn pointed it out.
Not talking about this again.
|
@ Cheese
Yeah, I agree, it's not very relevant but it should bother you a little. I was just trying to explain why dandel is wrong when he says that Alsn's case is based on WIFOM.
By the way, did you find some mafia players ? At the exception of me of course 
|
On October 29 2012 13:54 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 13:45 Djodref wrote:
@ debears
I did not say he was not right about the possibility of an SK and I can even understand that he thought I was SK.
First point: I'm saying that it is easier for mafia to suspect someone of being SK rather than being scum.
Second and main point: it is anti-town and pro-mafia to push a lynch on a SK in this situation. Djo, is it necessarily mafia motivated to do so when 1) it's being actively discussed 2) the sk can be a threat to town (the sk can nk, but how do you know he would correctly target mafia. A SK could end up targeting a townie who he thinks is scum) 3) He thought you had a possibility of being SK or scum Answer me that I see clear townie explanations for what he did by accusing you
I understand that you can see townie motivations for this. But tell me why a townie should lynch the SK over a mafia player. Why didn't he go for Ini instead ?
On October 28 2012 08:54 Dandel Ion wrote:
If I'm dead, please lynch Kush.
2nd priority would be Inig.
- I would be tremendously surprised if there isn't at least one scum between the two of them.
I get a strong town feeling from Rad. Once he learns how to make a proper case, you should (at least) listen to him.
debears I'm leaning town, Djo I'm leaning scum, but those reads are not as strong.
Everyone else is pretty null to me, with only slight feel-reads in either direction, or real proper null reads.
|
On October 29 2012 13:57 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 13:55 Djodref wrote:@ CheeseYeah, I agree, it's not very relevant but it should bother you a little. I was just trying to explain why dandel is wrong when he says that Alsn's case is based on WIFOM. By the way, did you find some mafia players ? At the exception of me of course Alsn's case is based off WIFOM. Why you lie? Show nested quote +On October 28 2012 22:31 Alsn wrote:Ok, I'm going to preface this by some WIFOM, although I think it's merited in this case. Looking at the situation right now, the only one at risk of lynching seems to be Djodref. More importantly, he seems to be completely alone in his plight. I think he's scummy, but this fact alone leads me to believe that one of the following three options must be true: - Djod is not mafia and all of us suspecting him are all town.
- Djod is not mafia and some of the people suspecting him are scum.
- Djod is mafia and no scum is defending him, in fact, no one has defended him for the entire length of the game.
I'm sorry but his case is not based on the fact that I'm town, even if I got there with some WIFOMy arguments.
|
On October 29 2012 14:08 debears wrote:
@Djo
How often has Inig been around to actually answer some fucking questions??? He just plops in with his thought out, big posts and leaves.
Well, this would have been a better reason for dandel to go after Inig rather than to vote me for being the SK.
|
On October 29 2012 13:57 debears wrote:
##Vote Djodref
Lying scum
You are going to be disappointed...
|
On October 29 2012 14:10 Rad wrote:
@djo
Dandel had a lot of time to think about it, and one of his main points about you was how quickly you pointed out the sylver quote. That didn't exist at the time he posted his msg before end of night.
@ Rad
It didn't change the fact that he still voted for me for being a SK rather than Ini for being a scum.
|
On October 29 2012 14:13 debears wrote:
ebwop
Why don't you find me scummy then??? Since I'm pressing you and not Inig
@ debears
You have posted a second case about me so I think I became your top scumread at that point.
|
Anyway, I recommend you to take a break and to remove your biased confirmation goggles. You are jumping at every post I make right now and it is quite tiresome.
I think I deserved for what I did to you in my first newbie
That and because I suck as town I would say...
|
On October 29 2012 14:13 debears wrote:
ebwop
Why don't you find me scummy then??? Since I'm pressing you and not Inig
@ debears
This post is so unfair. You know I have a town read on you since the beginning of the game.
|
On October 29 2012 14:22 Rad wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 14:14 Djodref wrote:On October 29 2012 14:10 Rad wrote:
@djo
Dandel had a lot of time to think about it, and one of his main points about you was how quickly you pointed out the sylver quote. That didn't exist at the time he posted his msg before end of night. @ RadIt didn't change the fact that he still voted for me for being a SK rather than Ini for being a scum. He didn't make the "I'm voting for SK" argument minutes before lynch and then let his vote ride into a lynch. He made it after a double NK where I hadn't claimed vigi yet. He had well over a full day left to change it up. At the very least it was a pressure move and I think a good one. It's not like everyone was going to read his case and go "yep let's kill the SK!" and no one talk until lynch. It has helped town a lot because it's gotten a variety of opinions since. Let me rephrase. His vote and reasoning is not important because it hasn't done anything yet. It's just there, making you anxious and causing discussion. If he votes inig, what happens? Inig posts once, maybe twice, goes afk. What do you do? You talk a loooootttt. That creates something for us to discuss. Furthermore, his points were interesting and valid. What new can he post about inig? Nothing at that point.
@ Rad
True enough, pressuring me made me talk a lot.
But I think he forgot about Inig and wanted to lynch me instead.
Remember that not wanting to lynch scum is a big scum-tell.
|
On October 29 2012 14:32 Roco69 wrote:
I am back from the moon. sorry i got high last week end
I do not want to see djodref kill even if it is against my logic of killing the one who talk the more !!!
##Vote Dandel Ion
@ Roco
You better post a lot and give better reasons for voting for dandel. Everyone is going to kill you for this kind of thing...
|
@ Rad
Check this out.
On October 28 2012 23:50 Dandel Ion wrote:
What has Djo done for town?
What has Cheesecake done?
What has Rad done?
What has debears done?
Is nacktjogger even in this game? I can't tell. What about Roco?
On October 28 2012 23:51 Dandel Ion wrote:
Oh Inig is also still alive. How could I forget this beacon of towniness?
He did mention him once while SK tunneling me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
