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On October 17 2012 21:02 thrawn2112 wrote:
that's very interesting i'm going to read through the ON vs hopeless stuff
so correct me if i'm getting this wrong but the logic works out to be like this:
ON is scum. Sand is town. Scum don't want a scum in the finals. That;s why hopleess was originally set to advance instead of ON. We know this because it was ET who pushed ON into the finals, and ET is town. If hopeless and ON were both scum, then scum should have been bussing ON because he would have been the less detrimental loss. It would have made no sense for scum to push a scum hopeless into finals rather than a scum ON.
Therefore the scum plan was to move hopeless (who is town) into the finals?
Yes this is the correct less pretty TLDR of my post. lol
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@Mementoss
I totally agree with the logic of your post. I didn't think through all the mafia perspective when I've made my Hopeless case.
I've noticed that it wouldn't make sense for a scum Hopeless to play scummy on purpose while he was going to meet his buddy on the semi-finals.
On October 17 2012 01:01 Djodref wrote:/snip What speaks for him+ Show Spoiler +
I still believe he was playing scummy on purpose at the first time because there is no way to play like this if you are not doing it on purpose. But I don't know on which purpose. It doesn't make sense for scum to do this but it doesn't really make sense for town either so I don't know. But I wouldn't do this at all if my lurky scum partner was going to face me in semi-finals.
It would make no sense for him to be scum but he has such an anti-town play that I don't believe him to be town anymore. Right now, I believe he's playing a WIFOMy act ("too scummy to be scum") so I would support an Hopeless lynch.
Nevertheless, if you believe he is town, please check his filter and tell me what he has achieved for town.
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Ok right now I consider the following 100% true, I don't see any loopholes. One of the following statements MUST BE TRUE.
A) there is scum among kush/djo
B) town hopeless took the lead against ON on accident without scum interference
C) if hopeless is scum then for some reason scum decided they'd rather have hopeless in the finals instead on ON
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On October 17 2012 21:16 Djodref wrote:@MementossI totally agree with the logic of your post. I didn't think through all the mafia perspective when I've made my Hopeless case. I've noticed that it wouldn't make sense for a scum Hopeless to play scummy on purpose while he was going to meet his buddy on the semi-finals. Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 01:01 Djodref wrote:/snip What speaks for him+ Show Spoiler +
I still believe he was playing scummy on purpose at the first time because there is no way to play like this if you are not doing it on purpose. But I don't know on which purpose. It doesn't make sense for scum to do this but it doesn't really make sense for town either so I don't know. But I wouldn't do this at all if my lurky scum partner was going to face me in semi-finals.
It would make no sense for him to be scum but he has such an anti-town play that I don't believe him to be town anymore. Right now, I believe he's playing a WIFOMy act ("too scummy to be scum") so I would support an Hopeless lynch. Nevertheless, if you believe he is town, please check his filter and tell me what he has achieved for town.
it doesn't matter what he achieved for town
it doesn't matter if hes town or anti town
anti-town day 3 is not good basis for a day 3 lynch
WIFOM: + Show Spoiler +Do you think 66% of the scum team would be in the top 3 lurkers list? Possible, but not usually the case in my experience
I would like him to try and step it up hard with some cases plz
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My only problem now is I don't know who to lynch, but at least this is a starting point for discussion
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yeah my motivation to read through D1 again just went from about 10% to 100... but trying to extend the argument any further starts getting really wifomy pretty quickly.
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On October 17 2012 21:08 thrawn2112 wrote:
And look at the voting results:
Hopeless vs OriginalName 15-12
sandroba vs djodref 4-0
To me that very clearly suggests scum activity behind the hopeless vs ON matchup... and the two who voted for hopeless were kush/djo. I suggest everyone go and read the r3 part of the thread.
I see only three possible scenarios:
A) there is scum among kush/djo
B) hopeless took the lead against ON on accident without scum interference
C) if hopeless is scum then for some reason scum decided they'd rather have hopeless in the finals instead on ON
I really think there is something too all this but lets please keep the discussion from reaching wifom insanity
I have not been sharing all the WIFOM insanity I went through after the first time Hopeless admitted he was playing scummy on purpose. I don't want things like this to happen in the thread.
Quick comments on your possible scenarios:
A) I'm town, I am not sure about Kush anymore, I'm waiting for him to present real cases
B) likely scenario because Hopeless was then playing scum on purpose
C) Hopeless may be scum and play us an hell of a WIFOMy act but I don't see why the last scum would help him advanced over ON in this case
Some comments on Hopeless being my top scumread atm:
I'm either totally stupid or Hopeless is using great WIFOM against us
As my reads are usually bad, I would say that I'm totally stupid.
Still, I want everybody to answer the question : what Hopeless has done for the town so far ?
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On October 17 2012 21:21 Mementoss wrote:
My only problem now is I don't know who to lynch, but at least this is a starting point for discussion
Well, I have the same problem, but I'm feeling really excited right now. There is some good discussion going on ^^
@Hopeless
Please look at my second defense of Daoud, and tell me if you still want to lynch him after this.
I didn't appreciate the fact that you have said that my first defense of him was piss-poor. But I'm realizing right now that I might have been totally stupid while tunneling you. Please step up and you're going to drop quickly from the top of my list.
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guys real cases against thrawn and djo and a closer look at Austin is coming when I get home.
I hate all these assumptions about scumvotes d1.
I think its very.possible that they thought he would be modkilled, so they took the opportunity to gain town points from the situation.
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I think it's very, very safe to assume hopeless is town. Apart from the finals, ON vs Hopeless was the most contested matchup. Doesn't that strongly suggest that hopeless is town now that we know ON is scum?
concerning the three options I listed earlier:
For kush to be scum that would have meant that he was bussing the shit out of ON. I checked the voting thread against the real thread and it was kush who pushed ON over the edge. Also I have a pretty strong meta town read on him. Djo, I still think he's town.... but I am way less certain of him being town than kush being town. So now I need to decide if either Djo is scum, or if town hopeless was set to advance into the finals without mafia voting interference. Djo said he thought this would be likely because hopeless was playing scummy even by his own account.
I'm not really sure that I can make much more of this without delving into wifom so for now I'm just going to assume hopeless is town and carry on from there.
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On October 17 2012 21:44 kushm4sta wrote:
guys real cases against thrawn and djo and a closer look at Austin is coming when I get home.
I hate all these assumptions about scumvotes d1.
I think its very.possible that they thought he would be modkilled, so they took the opportunity to gain town points from the situation.
fuck if this is a scumslip and I ignore it I'll be pissed at myself later... kush is that why you lynched ON? To gain towncred?
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he didn't bus ON at all
you have it all wrong, check the voting thread again. ET pushed ON over the edge
30 minutes before R3, you have ON advancing with
hopeless1der (7) < OriginalName (11)
Hope = 6 x Djo + 1 x Kush
ON = Sand x 7 + Hiro x 2 + ET x 2
After that Kush bombed Hope with 5 more votes and ET countered last minute with 4 more votes on ON
Final
Hopeless vs OriginalName 15-12
Hope = 6 x Djo + 6 x Kush
ON = Sand x 7 + Hiro x 2 + ET x 6
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daoud is quite an enigma. Is his scumminess from being a scum or being a newb?
It's bad but I'm pretty apathetic about his lynch.
My mind on him is constantly changing.
He is really cute though. I want to take him to bed with me and cuddle him up.
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EBWOP:
Thrawn has made a mistake in his last two posts, it was supposed to be a correction for him but it is useful for everybody regarding the present discussion.
My main point is that Kush wouldn't have bussed ON at all, regarding the votes
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Regarding my votes on Hopeless, I have already explained them here
+ Show Spoiler +On October 15 2012 12:04 Djodref wrote:
Ok, I've just caught up with the thread now.
First of all, I would like to address your concerns regarding my votes again Hopeless at round 3, when ON was facing him. I understand that they put me at a bad position right now. At the time when I've have dumped all my votes on him, I was pretty sure he was a mafia player. In my eyes, he was the scummiest but we didn't know yet that he was playing that way on purpose (regardless of his possible alignment).
As I explained earlier, I was expecting him to dump all his 9 votes on me in response (in a total mafia OMGUS way) so I believed the chances were very high to have a Hopeless/Djodref final. I thought the mafia would take this final because I don't look so good and it's easier to push a mislynch on a newbie. I was all-in and I wanted Hopeless to be lynched even if it was by risking me to be in the final.
So I went out quite satisfied with my move but when I finally emerged from my drunken sleep, I was very surprised to read Hopeless answer to my case. I would have expect anything but him giving me a town read. I've spent a lot of time thinking why a scum Hopeless would do that. Before going totally nuts, I've decided to stop WIFOMing myself and to reserve my judgement for later.
I'm at work right now and I don't have time to elaborate so much but I would prefer prplhz to explode with the Hot Potatoe today. I was already suspicious of prplhz before all the Sandroba vote thing but it strongly confirms it.
I'm not totally sold on Daoud yet. I've had a newb townie read on him until R3. His defense is very bad but he has been consistent with his read on Sandroba. Also I don't see his last scummate (prplhz?) let him post or vote like he did.
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I was talking about r4 not r3
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@Kush
Did you read my latest defense of daoud ?
What do you think about it ?
Waiting for your case 
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djo I don't like how defensive you're being about your votes for hopeless....
also you've had me as your strongest town read all game and one time you even told kush to "trust thrawn".... I'm beginnng to suspect some buddying going on
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On October 17 2012 22:08 thrawn2112 wrote:
I was talking about r4 not r3
My bad
You are right, he was the decisive vote during R4. Pretty fun that he did this with his last remaining vote.
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I don't want to be mislynched for these votes. I was so sure it was a good move at that time, I would be very sad if people would misinterpret them.
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EPT
