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Okay ... so.
Aperture 1 black team had cell leader, VE who targeted someone and inverted whatever actions were taken on them (alignments opposite, protects did KP, KP did protect, etc.), 1 shot janitor, and then nisani as inventor.
No factional KP, no inherent KP roles, but VE could kill by chance and nisani could invent KP items and give them to teammates if he wanted. Also an anti-town role in janitor.
Given the single NK each night and the lack of black kp in the full, black probably doesn't have factional KP. I'm down with that assumption.
With the links between ghost and crossfire, I mainly want to see crossfire come in and provide some information. I'd like to see a roleclaim, and if we've got a rolecop, he's a good target tonight to confirm whatever he claims. So many of the black roles from aperture 1 were or could be seriously anti-town, so I want to know what we're dealing with before we just leave black scum for later.
On numbers, I don't know exactly what to expect. Multi-faction games have more scum afaik, because scum can target each other, right? And we had a lot of protective roles.
If there are 3 black scum, then I was thinking the third (if ghost is #2) would be hiropro or maybe mattchew. I know hiropro claimed he was going to busy up til the weekend, but he's sort of coasted by because of lynching iamperfection. (actually, scratch mattchew off that. looking back over mattchew, I think I was just picking up on posts that say "mattchew lazy" which makes me think of scum mattchew - + Show Spoiler +On October 03 2012 07:07 Mattchew wrote:
i am actively lurking debating if i want to put in the effort for a post on people now or later On October 03 2012 15:42 Mattchew wrote:
tomorrow i will come back with the wisdom of 1,000 cares and shits cause today i just didnt give any
The links to Gonzaw feel tenuous compared to Crossfire <--> ghost, but maybe. I'll have to look at those a little more.
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Also, I still think there's no way JH can be red scum based on that Mattchew post D1.
Gonna have to think about whether that post means he also can't be black, never had a third faction in a game where I've found someone town like that.
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On October 07 2012 00:15 austinmcc wrote:Okay ... so. Aperture 1 black team had cell leader, VE who targeted someone and inverted whatever actions were taken on them (alignments opposite, protects did KP, KP did protect, etc.), 1 shot janitor, and then nisani as inventor. No factional KP, no inherent KP roles, but VE could kill by chance and nisani could invent KP items and give them to teammates if he wanted. Also an anti-town role in janitor.
Given the single NK each night and the lack of black kp in the full, black probably doesn't have factional KP. I'm down with that assumption. With the links between ghost and crossfire, I mainly want to see crossfire come in and provide some information. I'd like to see a roleclaim, and if we've got a rolecop, he's a good target tonight to confirm whatever he claims. So many of the black roles from aperture 1 were or could be seriously anti-town, so I want to know what we're dealing with before we just leave black scum for later. On numbers, I don't know exactly what to expect. Multi-faction games have more scum afaik, because scum can target each other, right? And we had a lot of protective roles. If there are 3 black scum, then I was thinking the third (if ghost is #2) would be hiropro or maybe mattchew. I know hiropro claimed he was going to busy up til the weekend, but he's sort of coasted by because of lynching iamperfection. (actually, scratch mattchew off that. looking back over mattchew, I think I was just picking up on posts that say "mattchew lazy" which makes me think of scum mattchew - + Show Spoiler +On October 03 2012 07:07 Mattchew wrote:
i am actively lurking debating if i want to put in the effort for a post on people now or later On October 03 2012 15:42 Mattchew wrote:
tomorrow i will come back with the wisdom of 1,000 cares and shits cause today i just didnt give any ) The links to Gonzaw feel tenuous compared to Crossfire <--> ghost, but maybe. I'll have to look at those a little more.
Have you read like....any of the thread since the day post? This post feels so careless and not well thought out :o
1) Crossfire is dead. There's no way he's going to come in and provide information like a role claim.
2) Gonzaw made a good post about the scum numbers. I think its pretty damn unlikely that there are 3 Black Scum. Because, again, I don't think Black Scum has more people that Red Scum, so for Black SCum to have 3, Red Scum also has to have 3. Which gives 6 scum in a 13 player game. Yea, I don't really even see that as a possibility.
3) Do you really think two people going as far as to SAY THEY WERE BUDDYING EACH OTHER makes more sense as a scumteam than two people who just casually mentioned each other throughout the game? No dialog, no real interaction, just an occasional mention.
I'll give you that I haven't played THAT many mafia games, but I've never seen two mafia teamates be that blatant about buddying. And it makes even less sense under the assumption that there are only 2 players on the team. I've played a 2 scum game (GSL 1), and I spent the entirety of the game trying to distance myself from my partner so that if one of us flipped, there wouldn't be things like that Crossfire<-->ghost stuff in my filter. I just don't see it being that big of a possibility.
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Crossfire should read "ghost" for the roleclaim crap. That's just a typo from thinking about them being together. Blech.
I agree that there probably aren't more black than red. But you're extrapolating from a relatively normal 2 vs 7 game with 1-2 power roles for town to a ? v ? game.- 2 factions usually increases the number of mafia, as they can kill each other (see last night)
- more power roles for town = more mafia, or more powerful mafia, to balance. Based on iamperfection's role, could just be balanced by upping the power of mafia roles GF + roleblocker + JOAT
- no kp from one side would mean higher mafia numbers are more balanced
- more protective roles for town might indicate higher mafia numbers
I don't know that 6 is likely. But I don't think we can go "Yaya it's 5v8, but 6v7 is so far out of the realm of possibility that it can't be." If we throw out the possibility of 6, we're still looking at a game VERY heavy on anti-town, and a far cry from 2 vs 7.
As to my experience, I think I've played more games than you. But I'll admit, I haven't played any from the mafia side of things. I've read QTs, I've talked with people who were mafia in my games, but no, I have no experience actually sitting in mafia QT.
A lot of what you pulled out about Gonzaw felt like what JH has done in some of his posts. "Find all the x and put it in a list." You grabbed every last MENTION of player x in player y's filter. Yes, you did a little more analysis on it, but I don't see the connection there as strong as I do between ghost and crossfire. The alternative to ghost and crossfire being linked is that...crossfire just happens to talk about ghost A LOT. He just picks a random townie to buddy? One who's not very active? I don't explicitly remembering seeing ghost as mafia in games. I know I played my first newbie game with crossfire. D1 he posts almost nothing. D2 he AND a mafia buddy both post nothing, come in 5 minutes before deadline and BOTH self-vote, saying they don't know what's going on and need to read thread. I've SEEN him do some weird, weird mafia play. So I'm not really going to throw out the possibility that they're explicitly buddying in thread, because I've seen him and a buddy both not contribute/self-vote/lurk and post apologies at almost the exact same time.
I understand that "yes, you did a little more analysis on it" is not a proper summary of the differences between the two. I'll reread your gonzaw stuff and get more full thoughts on that down.
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AE:KRJNSK:JDFN. The experience comment is another misread. I need more coffee apparently. I read I'll give you that I haven't played THAT many mafia games as "I'll give that you haven't..." and thought you either meant overall or just that I don't have a good feel for how mafia members interact.
Okeedoke. So here are two thoughts about ghost/crossfire based on what you posted. Something that really sticks out to me is your (6).6)
I'm really sorry I've been so busy, I fully intend to catch up tomorrow. Items on the agenda include:
Try and understand what XFire has been spending so much time in thread defending me: I'm grateful, but I don't get it.
Then:
On my first read, I took XFire's posting to be buddying, which in retrospect, I don't think it was. It looks more just like he was trying to figure out exactly what was happening in thread. Since he wasn't buddying, now he's my buddy <3
Here's something that gives direct evidence toward them buddying. But would Crossfire+ghost scumteam really be THAT obvious about it? They would have had to have been SUPREMELY confident that neither would flip. Look at it the other way around. You say they don't want to buddy each other. What if crossfire just looks like he's buddying ghost, ghost picks up on that, and worries. Say your scumbuddy is actively throwing out odd reads on you, what do you do?
Ghost's actual posts are - (1) I want to understand why crossfire has been defending me (I'm worried about crossfire defending me for no good reason). (2) Upon reread, I don't think he was buddying. Repeat, he wasn't buddying, so we can be buddies.
Does that sit well with you? To me, that looks like Ghost being worried about crossfire's buddying, and then this weird conclusion to draw. Summarily say "Nope, he wasn't buddying me." "Because he wasn't buddying me, we can be buddies." It's...really weird. Just a summary no buddying, not even quoting crossfire's posts and explaining how he misinterpreted them.
Apart from your thoughts, here's something you brought up that also triggers warnings. And Crossfire's whole reasoning for voting iamperfection was in fact a chainsaw defense of ghost to begin with. "iamperfection twists ghost's reasoning to attack him" was crossfire's basic logic. Crossfire had never talked about ghost or iamperfection at that point, and LOTS of people had given crappy reasoning for all sorts of things. But he's focused on what happened to ghost, and then overnight proceeds to call ghost townie 80 times, and address a post that gonzaw made concerning ghost. Does very little EXCEPT talk about ghost.
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Something else I want to mention regarding Crossfire:
Open his filter and ctrl+f Keir. He spent quite a lot of time giving me town reads too. And I never even mentioned him once. Basically my interactions with him are exactly the same as Ghost's, minus me making a comment about him buddying me.
If you want to believe that there are 3 scum on each team, then I think you could certainly make the argument that me and S&B are part of his team if you think that his interactions with ghost were scummy.
But since I know that I am town, then I don't find it that unlikely that Crossfire spent time buddying another person who wasn't in his faction. Especially controversial townies that he could say "I told you so" after we flipped if we ever got lynched.
And here's the real kicker for me (yea, I already talked about this in my gonzaw post, but I think its a really, really strong connection):
On October 05 2012 13:14 gonzaw wrote:
Hell, if I'm so "obvious" scum it should be easy as hell for you to make that case on me. If I'm scum I'm basically begging you to catch me, convince everybody I'm scum and get me lynched.
So why aren't you taking that chance? Don't you want other guys like austin/Crossfire/etc who think I'm town to realize what a scummy monster I am?
Literally the only mention of gonzaw in Crossfire's entire filter is:
On October 04 2012 10:32 Crossfire99 wrote:
Ok, so I don't know if my vision is getting clouded by my opinion on how he's playing, but I think Jingle is kinda playing like a dick. Well i think he's acting like a dick towards gonzaw. His other posts don't seem so bad. He's just constantly attacking gonzaw in a dickish way and his concerns seem to be more petty concerns when compared to the overall view of gonzaw (at least how I see gonzaw). This leads me to see gonzaw as more townie and jingle more scummy.
He's not saying that gonzaw is townie. He's just saying that, during the shitfit, that gonzaw seems townier than Jingle. So where did gonzaw get so much confidence in Crossfire's read of him? Because, after that, the only other post that Crossfire made before he died said:
On October 06 2012 08:00 Crossfire99 wrote:
Ok, I'm gonna post my reads that I have right now. I am sticking with my same townie view of Mattchew, hiro, and ghost due to the day 1 votes.
I believe the strong and keirathi claims, so I see them as town right now.
**SNIP**
After him, I think either jingle or gonzaw need to die. I was leaning towards jingle earlier, but now some people have brought up suspicions on gonzaw and now I'm not sure of my earlier reads on either of them. I will need to some serious reading tomorrow to figure it if we want to lynch one of them.
Anyway, we should lynch drazerk tomorrow.
Something about that just feels extremely off.
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If you're still around keirathi,
On October 06 2012 10:10 gonzaw wrote:
Also, even if we 100% determine ghost is BS....do we lynch him? Scum KP seems to be more dangerous than whatever BS have (melee conditional KP and that shit), so maybe it can be better to try and lynch a RS and maybe let RS deal with ghost (although I doubt they will, like in Liar Game).
You don't seem as convinced on ghost, but this is a question we need to address.
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My vote is still on Drazerk 
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On October 06 2012 11:03 gonzaw wrote:
Jingle, Hiro, what do you guys think about ghost and what I wrote about him?
Don't worry Jingle, even if I'm RS ghost can be BS, so you can actually pay attention to what I say.
I hate using connections the way you just did. It's not reliable at all. Crossfire could very well have been mentioning ghost as town so much simply because he wanted to associate being against perfection as a town trait (protecting himself)
I got the feeling off ghost that he was just being dumb early on with the Keirathi "too much effort" thing but I'm not sure now. He seemed really unwilling to do anything on the s&b/nisani lynch and I'm having trouble deciding whether that was because he was busy or whether he just didn't care who got lynched. I need to see more from him to decide.
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Lynch draz maybe hiro tomorrow
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On October 07 2012 02:27 Keirathi wrote:
Something else I want to mention regarding Crossfire:
Open his filter and ctrl+f Keir. He spent quite a lot of time giving me town reads too. And I never even mentioned him once. Basically my interactions with him are exactly the same as Ghost's, minus me making a comment about him buddying me.
The thing is....you were pretty apparent town.
Scum from either faction, 3rd party, etc will always try to "buddy" to the obvious town so they don't generate conflicts (accusing the "most pro-town" player puts lots of focus on them and they need a lot of skills to pull off, and at times it's not worth the effort to try and cast suspicion on a townie).
I can understand Xfire giving town reads on you, Matt, me (that's what I understood, maybe he didn't have that strong townread on me), and hell maybe even Hiro (although less than the others).
I don't really understand him giving a town read on ghost, since again, ghost was not "pro-town" at all and his reasoning for defending ghost was pretty bad.
It's possible he "defended" ghost, and then as soon as a BS fell (him or his buddy) the remaining one could tunnel ghost as BS for the rest of the game (by saying something like "He was obvious not in the same team as iamp...but what if he's BS!? Of course! He's scum!" or something)
Xfire did go on quite a bit on why you were town, I think in his N1 posts; but his explanation on ghost was minimal.
On October 07 2012 00:50 Keirathi wrote:
3) Do you really think two people going as far as to SAY THEY WERE BUDDYING EACH OTHER makes more sense as a scumteam than two people who just casually mentioned each other throughout the game? No dialog, no real interaction, just an occasional mention.
On October 07 2012 01:42 austinmcc wrote:Look at it the other way around. You say they don't want to buddy each other. What if crossfire just looks like he's buddying ghost, ghost picks up on that, and worries. Say your scumbuddy is actively throwing out odd reads on you, what do you do?
Ghost's actual posts are - (1) I want to understand why crossfire has been defending me (I'm worried about crossfire defending me for no good reason). (2) Upon reread, I don't think he was buddying. Repeat, he wasn't buddying, so we can be buddies.
Does that sit well with you? To me, that looks like Ghost being worried about crossfire's buddying, and then this weird conclusion to draw. Summarily say "Nope, he wasn't buddying me." "Because he wasn't buddying me, we can be buddies." It's...really weird. Just a summary no buddying, not even quoting crossfire's posts and explaining how he misinterpreted them.
Okay, these are basically the 2 points in favour and against that Crossfire<->ghost link that seem plausible.
EHmm...both make some sense. It does seem weird for scum ghost to say "now he's my buddy <3" about his scumbuddy but don't do anything about it....but if he noticed Xfire defending him, it's possible he wanted to post something to address that fact in case someone mentioned it later. Like, ghost goes on scum QT "Yo Xfire wtf? Don't buddy up to me" and then decides to do something to address it in the thread without bussing his teammate.
Hmm, wait, how about this:
ghost and Drazerk
Would that make sense? Mostly because of Drazerk having 1 additional KP on top of his red factional KP.
Right now...I'm leaning on Drazerk/ghost/Hiro as remaining scum. Kei/S&B town, Matt town and austin town (impressions I get, although I can find weird stuff with both Matt and austin to doubt them...I can't really think of them doing everything else they did as scum)
Differencing the colors between them is a pain in the ass though (there are only 6 combinations though).
On October 07 2012 03:35 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 11:03 gonzaw wrote:
Jingle, Hiro, what do you guys think about ghost and what I wrote about him?
Don't worry Jingle, even if I'm RS ghost can be BS, so you can actually pay attention to what I say. I hate using connections the way you just did. It's not reliable at all. Crossfire could very well have been mentioning ghost as town so much simply because he wanted to associate being against perfection as a town trait (protecting himself) I got the feeling off ghost that he was just being dumb early on with the Keirathi "too much effort" thing but I'm not sure now. He seemed really unwilling to do anything on the s&b/nisani lynch and I'm having trouble deciding whether that was because he was busy or whether he just didn't care who got lynched. I need to see more from him to decide.
Who is BS then? You?
Join in the discussion Hiro, who is the remaining BS and who is the remaining RS, or at least who is scum no matter what color he is?
On October 06 2012 19:27 Drazerk wrote:
Too many scum faction for me to stop this so yeah cya in the obs thread
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I think I'll end up voting you later
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On October 07 2012 03:20 austinmcc wrote:If you're still around keirathi, Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 10:10 gonzaw wrote:
Also, even if we 100% determine ghost is BS....do we lynch him? Scum KP seems to be more dangerous than whatever BS have (melee conditional KP and that shit), so maybe it can be better to try and lynch a RS and maybe let RS deal with ghost (although I doubt they will, like in Liar Game). You don't seem as convinced on ghost, but this is a question we need to address.
If the factional KP is true, I'm all for killing the reds first. Specially if the remaining red has a similar ability to GlaDOS and can fuck things up.
Xfire's role seemed way too underpowered. He had 5-maximum 1 KP to use, only if a night action was used on him, and could only be used on the guy above or below him on the list.
Compared to GlaDOS who was a RBer/GF/other shit that seems very underwhelming. Again considering Gordon Freeman is the most "important" figure from Black Mesa one would assume he got the best powers (just like you would assume GlaDOS got the best powers from RS). If so, then the remaining BS dude has shitty powers right? Maybe some kind of Framer ability that could deal 1 KP in some way or something.
It's also possible someone like G-Man is actually the "superior" to Freeman in Black Mesa and has better powers, and Freeman was just a normal goon (because seriously, Freeman's power is worse than a red goon's one).
Everything seems to point to getting rid of RS first, unless I'm missing something.
On October 07 2012 05:12 Mattchew wrote:
Lynch draz maybe hiro tomorrow
Why Hiro? Matt, again, don't go scummy lurker on me. You are not confirmed town by any means so start discussing.
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I'm in NYC so I can't post anymore this weekend
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On October 07 2012 05:57 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2012 03:20 austinmcc wrote:If you're still around keirathi, On October 06 2012 10:10 gonzaw wrote:
Also, even if we 100% determine ghost is BS....do we lynch him? Scum KP seems to be more dangerous than whatever BS have (melee conditional KP and that shit), so maybe it can be better to try and lynch a RS and maybe let RS deal with ghost (although I doubt they will, like in Liar Game). You don't seem as convinced on ghost, but this is a question we need to address. If the factional KP is true, I'm all for killing the reds first. Specially if the remaining red has a similar ability to GlaDOS and can fuck things up. Xfire's role seemed way too underpowered. He had 5-maximum 1 KP to use, only if a night action was used on him, and could only be used on the guy above or below him on the list. Compared to GlaDOS who was a RBer/GF/other shit that seems very underwhelming. Again considering Gordon Freeman is the most "important" figure from Black Mesa one would assume he got the best powers (just like you would assume GlaDOS got the best powers from RS). If so, then the remaining BS dude has shitty powers right? Maybe some kind of Framer ability that could deal 1 KP in some way or something. It's also possible someone like G-Man is actually the "superior" to Freeman in Black Mesa and has better powers, and Freeman was just a normal goon (because seriously, Freeman's power is worse than a red goon's one). Everything seems to point to getting rid of RS first, unless I'm missing something. Why Hiro? Matt, again, don't go scummy lurker on me. You are not confirmed town by any means so start discussing.
you forget, gordon freeman was a day vig. Given that there are at least two protective powers in a small game, that does make the role quite a bit more powerful. There's also the possibility that the black team has other powers which have synergy with the list changing.
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Either way, if Drazerk does end up being scum...it seems most likely the remaining scum will surrender, since it will be 8v1 (again, most likely) and I don't think any scum can win that, even if the scum was Keirathi or S&B or Mattchew for instance (specially if he's a KP-less BS).
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I can't get a good read on hiropro now that my main reason for putting him in the town column is gone (that he voted for iamperfection, but he could be black scum).
The reveal of the black scum team actually doesn't change my read on Mattchew by much, since he was the one person out of the four who I thought might have killed off his godfather day 1 like that anyway.
That makes it a bit more difficult to decide who to lynch after Drazerk. I still think Ghost looks the worst, but then we have Gonzaw, JingleHell, and Hiropro.
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On October 07 2012 06:01 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2012 05:57 gonzaw wrote:On October 07 2012 03:20 austinmcc wrote:If you're still around keirathi, On October 06 2012 10:10 gonzaw wrote:
Also, even if we 100% determine ghost is BS....do we lynch him? Scum KP seems to be more dangerous than whatever BS have (melee conditional KP and that shit), so maybe it can be better to try and lynch a RS and maybe let RS deal with ghost (although I doubt they will, like in Liar Game). You don't seem as convinced on ghost, but this is a question we need to address. If the factional KP is true, I'm all for killing the reds first. Specially if the remaining red has a similar ability to GlaDOS and can fuck things up. Xfire's role seemed way too underpowered. He had 5-maximum 1 KP to use, only if a night action was used on him, and could only be used on the guy above or below him on the list. Compared to GlaDOS who was a RBer/GF/other shit that seems very underwhelming. Again considering Gordon Freeman is the most "important" figure from Black Mesa one would assume he got the best powers (just like you would assume GlaDOS got the best powers from RS). If so, then the remaining BS dude has shitty powers right? Maybe some kind of Framer ability that could deal 1 KP in some way or something. It's also possible someone like G-Man is actually the "superior" to Freeman in Black Mesa and has better powers, and Freeman was just a normal goon (because seriously, Freeman's power is worse than a red goon's one). Everything seems to point to getting rid of RS first, unless I'm missing something. On October 07 2012 05:12 Mattchew wrote:
Lynch draz maybe hiro tomorrow Why Hiro? Matt, again, don't go scummy lurker on me. You are not confirmed town by any means so start discussing. you forget, gordon freeman was a day vig. Given that there are at least two protective powers in a small game, that does make the role quite a bit more powerful. There's also the possibility that the black team has other powers which have synergy with the list changing.
So far I haven't seen anything at all that has bearings on the player list.
I haven't even seen that JK "spot" in the list from Mementos earlier on D1 (I can't think of too many reasons to hide that info from town though). I haven't seen Xfire use his ability on anyone (although yes, being a day vig makes it seem more powerful against the medics). If it's something that can happen it either hasn't happened yet or it's completely harmless for now.
I wouldn't mind ghost roleclaiming right now either. We are getting closer to a "townies vs 1 scum" scenario, where we will basically massclaim. If someone claiming right now can help us arrive there sooner, or someone fake-claiming can help us kill him sooner (so we arrive there sooner as well) then I'm all for it.
Disclaimer: No, me claiming right now won't get us to arrive there sooner
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Disclaimer:
I know this may be "important" and a "scumslip" later when I claim so I'll address it now: I didn't leave breadcrumbs of my role name/abilities/etc.
Reason? I couldn't really be arsed to fake a post just to breadcrumb my role, and check each letter and stuff and try to make it hidden. Also every time I crumb and claim, the crumb itself doesn't really matter at all (e.g Bang Bang Mafia 2, the original Aperture Mafia, etc).
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On October 07 2012 05:54 gonzaw wrote:as scum) Differencing the colors between them is a pain in the ass though (there are only 6 combinations though).
Show nested quote +On October 07 2012 03:35 HiroPro wrote:On October 06 2012 11:03 gonzaw wrote:
Jingle, Hiro, what do you guys think about ghost and what I wrote about him?
Don't worry Jingle, even if I'm RS ghost can be BS, so you can actually pay attention to what I say. I hate using connections the way you just did. It's not reliable at all. Crossfire could very well have been mentioning ghost as town so much simply because he wanted to associate being against perfection as a town trait (protecting himself) I got the feeling off ghost that he was just being dumb early on with the Keirathi "too much effort" thing but I'm not sure now. He seemed really unwilling to do anything on the s&b/nisani lynch and I'm having trouble deciding whether that was because he was busy or whether he just didn't care who got lynched. I need to see more from him to decide. Who is BS then? You? Join in the discussion Hiro, who is the remaining BS and who is the remaining RS, or at least who is scum no matter what color he is?
I think you're the black scum. Could also be ghost or or jingle, not sure about them, but I would put my money on you.
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Xfire's role seemed way too underpowered. He had 5-maximum 1 KP to use, only if a night action was used on him, and could only be used on the guy above or below him on the list.
Compared to GlaDOS who was a RBer/GF/other shit that seems very underwhelming. Again considering Gordon Freeman is the most "important" figure from Black Mesa one would assume he got the best powers (just like you would assume GlaDOS got the best powers from RS). If so, then the remaining BS dude has shitty powers right? Maybe some kind of Framer ability that could deal 1 KP in some way or something.
Why is everything you say not make sense gonzaw? Freeman having a weak power makes it more likely that the remaining black scum have strong power/powers, not less likely
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EPT
