|
On October 13 2012 10:38 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 10:35 Kreb wrote:On October 13 2012 10:29 iamperfection wrote:On October 13 2012 10:24 Kreb wrote:On October 13 2012 10:21 iamperfection wrote:
.....BloodyC0bbler you accuse ve of not playing his role properly yet you yourself are the one that LIED causing the shit storm of what claims we should believe. Your lying showed you cared of one thing and one thing only your survival. You can die now 3rd party. We should of lynched you the second we found out about your lie it makes no sense from a town perspective. Your lying only pushed forward your interests of survival.
## Unvote
## Vote BloodyC0bbler
O.o Wait, what? How did BCs lie cause MMToss or VE to claim? And what the shitstorm about it anyway, everyone is (supposedly) playing towards their wincon, Town by rightfully claiming Town, scum by making false claims. Shitstorm? Elaborate please. Ve claimed he was a veteran but first he claimed medic protection. He lied kill him. Its not optimal play no matter what he says it just leads to confusion. Why should i believe anything BloodyC0bbler say in relation to anything. And i didnt say it caused somebody to claim i said it just adds to confusion because his lie causes confusion with relation to other players claims. I must say I dont really see the confusing part. He lied for a reason that to me makes sense from a town perspective. And no, you shouldnt believe him if you're sure hes 3rd party. But I cant discern how you are so sure about that. What if he actually IS veteran? Doesnt all make sense then? of course im not 100% sure stop playing stupid word games. I was under the impression that gambits like this were bad. Why would he need to lie if was town? just so the mafia wont shoot again. give me a break a town member should not worry about whether he lives or dies.
My play may not have been the best this game, but I have put forth more overall contribution then most players still alive. Also given that near universally the biggest point of suspicion I was garnering for ages was "hes still alive" obviously the expectation of me is to perform at a far higher level then most players. As such would me wanting to survive to attempt to reach that expectation be far more intelligent then say, saying "im a vet, feel free to shoot me now"
|
On October 13 2012 10:36 VisceraEyes wrote:
##Vote: BloodyC0bbler
Sorry guy. I wanted to wait.
For anyone who cares, he's taking the one self-motivated decision I've made this game (the 'toss check) and saying that I'm playing in my own self-interest. Except...I'm not. The reason I wanted to know if I can trust 'toss is because I've played with the guy before and besides BC (who I was NOT checking) the one I considered to be A) the least likely to be framed and B) the one who is most likely to look at the thread objectively and find scum with me. It was self-motivated only in that it allowed ME to have peace of mind about another town player so that, with 'toss, we could find the remaining scum. Add to that the fact that I fully expected to die. Add to that the fact that all the people I mentioned during the night were all potential frame targets.
Now: if BC is town, as he claims, then he should know that he should be dead. It's like...just one of those things. If BC is alive late game, he's anti-town. And he's saying that it would have been OPTIMAL for me to check someone WHO HAD ONE OF THE HIGHEST CHANCES OF DYING OVERNIGHT THAN ANYONE IF HE'S TOWN.
This is a load of bullshit that he's injecting into the thread guys. I mean, yeah...he's just playing to his win-condition...but honestly if he's not going to help me find scum, then I prefer he just die outright.
Except you say if I am town I should be dead. So should you, So should mementoss, so should coag for sheer reason for being a vet/checked by you and flipped green.
Mattchew was not as useless day 1 as he is now and avoided major suspicion for days and would never have likely taken a bullet, thus he should have been shot early on, etc....
The level of vets still alive at this point in the game IS NOT A REASON TO LYNCH SOMEONE. Given that the near universal decision was I am a third party thus immune to NK's then checking me should have been your first choice as if we both lived you played the most optimally.
You can say that Mementoss is also the person most likely to help you find scum but we both know its not true given his stellar level of inactiveness overall and thus hes not going to help you do jack. Banking on both you and him still being alive, or one alive and not roleblocked is retarded.
You should be treating each check like its your last and praying to god you live, not throwing suspicion on everyone who looks at you and making up bullshit reasons to off people.
|
On October 13 2012 10:46 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 10:42 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On October 13 2012 10:38 iamperfection wrote:On October 13 2012 10:35 Kreb wrote:On October 13 2012 10:29 iamperfection wrote:On October 13 2012 10:24 Kreb wrote:On October 13 2012 10:21 iamperfection wrote:
.....BloodyC0bbler you accuse ve of not playing his role properly yet you yourself are the one that LIED causing the shit storm of what claims we should believe. Your lying showed you cared of one thing and one thing only your survival. You can die now 3rd party. We should of lynched you the second we found out about your lie it makes no sense from a town perspective. Your lying only pushed forward your interests of survival.
## Unvote
## Vote BloodyC0bbler
O.o Wait, what? How did BCs lie cause MMToss or VE to claim? And what the shitstorm about it anyway, everyone is (supposedly) playing towards their wincon, Town by rightfully claiming Town, scum by making false claims. Shitstorm? Elaborate please. Ve claimed he was a veteran but first he claimed medic protection. He lied kill him. Its not optimal play no matter what he says it just leads to confusion. Why should i believe anything BloodyC0bbler say in relation to anything. And i didnt say it caused somebody to claim i said it just adds to confusion because his lie causes confusion with relation to other players claims. I must say I dont really see the confusing part. He lied for a reason that to me makes sense from a town perspective. And no, you shouldnt believe him if you're sure hes 3rd party. But I cant discern how you are so sure about that. What if he actually IS veteran? Doesnt all make sense then? of course im not 100% sure stop playing stupid word games. I was under the impression that gambits like this were bad. Why would he need to lie if was town? just so the mafia wont shoot again. give me a break a town member should not worry about whether he lives or dies. My play may not have been the best this game, but I have put forth more overall contribution then most players still alive. Also given that near universally the biggest point of suspicion I was garnering for ages was "hes still alive" obviously the expectation of me is to perform at a far higher level then most players. As such would me wanting to survive to attempt to reach that expectation be far more intelligent then say, saying "im a vet, feel free to shoot me now" nope you shouldn't really give a shit about survivng. if you were town you should have been contributed the entire time you were not. and not playing silly gambits. I didnt know the key to a town victory was having you last as long as possible. Give me a break.
I have given reads, attempted day 1 to divert the lynch away from two flipped players who both turned town (who were the only main targets till that point) and that addition of conversation led to a near scum lynch because it forced austin to post.
Next we had day 2 and 3 where yes, I did far less, but guess what? EVERYONE DID. We were handed free lynches by two blues where universally near no one was talking. Day 4 rolls around and I provided reads when I was here. Gasp, seems like I have been helping as best as I could for when I am here.
Do you honestly not see any issue with VE's claim? His defense? His open admission that he is not going to play optimally in the interests of the town but in his own? Does town really suffer from a vet claiming med prot to fuck with scum day 2 to make them wifom the setup / # of blues when it shouldn't matter to town?
Does town suffer if a Mafia fake claims dt, treats it as confirmed, misslynches a townie, then proceeds to "waste his checks" to keep himself alive longer where his only defense is "mafia must have a framer / role flip hider" when they already had a role that was in play to counter his?
Start using your head dude.
|
On October 13 2012 10:53 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 10:49 Kreb wrote:On October 13 2012 10:38 iamperfection wrote:On October 13 2012 10:35 Kreb wrote:On October 13 2012 10:29 iamperfection wrote:On October 13 2012 10:24 Kreb wrote:On October 13 2012 10:21 iamperfection wrote:
.....BloodyC0bbler you accuse ve of not playing his role properly yet you yourself are the one that LIED causing the shit storm of what claims we should believe. Your lying showed you cared of one thing and one thing only your survival. You can die now 3rd party. We should of lynched you the second we found out about your lie it makes no sense from a town perspective. Your lying only pushed forward your interests of survival.
## Unvote
## Vote BloodyC0bbler
O.o Wait, what? How did BCs lie cause MMToss or VE to claim? And what the shitstorm about it anyway, everyone is (supposedly) playing towards their wincon, Town by rightfully claiming Town, scum by making false claims. Shitstorm? Elaborate please. Ve claimed he was a veteran but first he claimed medic protection. He lied kill him. Its not optimal play no matter what he says it just leads to confusion. Why should i believe anything BloodyC0bbler say in relation to anything. And i didnt say it caused somebody to claim i said it just adds to confusion because his lie causes confusion with relation to other players claims. I must say I dont really see the confusing part. He lied for a reason that to me makes sense from a town perspective. And no, you shouldnt believe him if you're sure hes 3rd party. But I cant discern how you are so sure about that. What if he actually IS veteran? Doesnt all make sense then? of course im not 100% sure stop playing stupid word games. I was under the impression that gambits like this were bad. Why would he need to lie if was town? just so the mafia wont shoot again. give me a break a town member should not worry about whether he lives or dies. This is going into some kind of game-theory-land now: But if you believe yourself to be an above average player of your team, you SHOULD want to sac other members of your team before yourself if thats what it comes down to. So caring about his own survival doesnt have to be anti-town, it can be very much pro-town. that bullshit for a mafia game. Why would anyone believe a late game BloodyC0bbler if he has to sacrifice being a legitimate town player. He would have to lie and make himself look scummy in order to survive and then when it comes to late game the town will now suddenly believe him? Ya come on that doesn't apply here.
Go read games like closed casket where I was town. I have made up complete roles as town to attempt an early game win given how 100% sure I was on my reads / to make mafia shoot me. Me playing in a way to fuck with mafia's heads is actually quite standard of my play given that It is how I play.
|
On October 13 2012 10:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm not killing you because you're alive. I'm killing you because you're obviously third party and you're trying to kill town's cop rather than look for scum. Very anti-town of you. Very lynch-worthy.
Anyway, thanks for the theory lesson and everything - maybe my check WASN'T optimal. But like...I don't care. It's my check to do with what I will to help town win. You don't lynch every vig who shoots a townie do you? You don't lynch every medic who fails to protect someone?
My claim has made sense for days - you picked a pretty fucking opportune time to say "Whoa wait guys, WHOA. I just cracked this game wide open. You know all that stuff I said about VE being obviously town based on his actions and NOT on his claim? Well SCRAP all that because he checked MEMENTOSS instead of ME!"
Feel free to backtrack and get on Kreb BC, I'll join you. But as long as you insist that I'm scum, I'm going to insist that you don't give a fuck about finding scum. And I'm going to insist that you die.
You bread crumbed the possibility of you being insane/framer/role hider role existing even as you started pushing kush's lynch. Given that there was no reason at all in the setup thus far in the game to suggest a role could be insane, or framer/role flip hider existing you not being 100% sure on a kush lynch is pretty fucking retarded.
As for your claim making sense? IT DID UNTIL KUSH FLIPPED NOTHING REMOTELY CLOSE TO WHAT YOU CLAIMED HE WOULD FLIP.
You just said you don't care that you didn't play optimally. Why do you think you could afford that given your chance of being shot was as high as mine? How did checking someone else as likely to get shot or blocked help town win at all?
As for lynching a vig who shoots a town? God no he just proved he had a bullet. As for a medic who fails to protect someone? How would we know?
The situations are different. You are playing suboptimally, have only used fear mongering of setup as a defense of why you have to be a town dt as opposed to scum.
As for me not giving a shit about finding scum? I have analyzed many players over the days VE. You also know reads of players change based on how they play over time, and in a few short span of time can have a read on them reversed for shitty play.
Also, I believe Kreb is town. He has been playing very much for the best interests of the town this game so I see no need to lynch him. Build me a solid case and persuade me. You as town would know exactly why I doubt you and thus should be playing to change my mind.
|
Seriously VE? How is that even helping.
I am leaving my vote on you till I am back from work tommorrow early afternoon. By then I hope we both have distanced ourselves enough to not be as heated as we currently are.
|
VE I am back and after spending a great deal of time thinking on the events of last night and reading the posts since then I will admit that I most likely took your sub optimal play as a scumtell and most likely shouldnt.
I still find the situation around kush's flip fucked beyond belief but I am willing to give you time to prove yourself given the name you said Kush had, and thus it may make sense that he can hide his own flip.
As such ##unvote
|
On October 11 2012 00:36 Mattchew wrote:
Thanks BC for that I'll write a case before the end of the night
You're first case then arrives
On October 14 2012 03:43 Mattchew wrote:I believe VE to be town and I believe VE's check to be real. I don't really know/care if thats where the mafia KP went, I think we lynched scum with kush. If this is true, we should be looking at those who tried to push away from a kush vote. What townie (who have no information) would not lynch a claimed dt red vote? Especially after we had 2 straight scum lynches putting us ahead. iamperfection is who we should be looking at to lynch. Iamperfection tries to push the zboson lynch on the back of Darthpunk's waivering from the kushmasta lynch. here is iamperf's posting in this time period + Show Spoiler +On October 11 2012 10:29 iamperfection wrote:
anyone up for..... dare i say it..... some last minute shenanigans. On October 11 2012 10:45 iamperfection wrote:
we would need 8 votes to do anything correct? On October 11 2012 11:05 iamperfection wrote:
dp makes more sense than zboson and i believe kush is town. He panicked the last time he was under pressure of lynch as scum he did not do it here.
## Vote Z-Boson On October 11 2012 11:17 iamperfection wrote:
alright bed time for me. If i remember right the deadline is unofficial so you have up to the night post to get votes in. He tries to get a last hour vote switch, but doesn't provide any reasoning for doing so. His sole reason is DP's thoughts, which he doesn't even quote or comment on. His pushing of this switch does not have a sense of urgency or care to it. I believe he is doing this last minute switch idea just because he knows what kush will flip. ##vote iamperfection
So, given that it did not arrive when you said, you have done no real work since then and keep jumping in to appear helpful/active while doing nothing I am going to vote for you. You are consistently not around or helpful and in no way can I see you being town.
##vote mattchew
|
On October 14 2012 10:50 Kreb wrote:Shiao, Coag and Sloosh appearing within 8minutes after a few Shiao votes go down. If I am to move to a secondary target, thats the kind of stuff thats gonna decide where my vote go. Both Matt and Shiao are similarly scummy because of their inactivity to me, but the sudden resistance appearing for Shiao after several hours of very surprisingly low activity despite the very unfavourable situation for town with votes everywhere. Thats might definitely tip me over. Couple that with: Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 04:31 Mattchew wrote:
also, if someone links me to a newbie game (VE you did this too WTF) for a meta read you have got to be kidding. I would say anyone under like 7 - 10 games should never be lynched on meta because there is so much room to improve and change styles Which is likely directed at me. And since I know Im town, a scum should have little reason to do this. Heavily leaning towards a Shiao vote here if I am to switch.
How is it sudden resistance? To my understanding Shiao was not really ever on the docket until what? an hour or two ago, tops of 3?
Meanwhile you have a player like mattchew who has been on near universally everyones scumlist at some point through this game. Why is a player who has been so apathetic and unhelpful, who isn't even playing in the interests of the town getting a free pass repeatedly?
The entire shiao wagon looks like its designed to keep mattchew alive another day which I have no clue as to why.
|
On October 14 2012 10:56 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 10:53 iamperfection wrote:On October 14 2012 10:53 Keirathi wrote:
I'll put my vote on whoever I damn well please, thanks.
I already said the people I would be eilling to vote for. I have 2 hours to make up my mind on if I want to change. can you explain why you think a no lynch was a good idea. I already did. VE made me paranoid that scum had an ability that they could use to change the flip today. If we no-lynched, there wouldn't be a flip to change. But, I said that without reading the op again to see if it was even possible to vote no-lynch.
The only role in the game that could feasibly change a lynch flip was likely the coroner. Given that it is extremely unlikely scum had more then 1 of that role, I think we should be able to trust lynches at this point.
|
On October 14 2012 10:59 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 10:58 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On October 14 2012 10:56 Keirathi wrote:On October 14 2012 10:53 iamperfection wrote:On October 14 2012 10:53 Keirathi wrote:
I'll put my vote on whoever I damn well please, thanks.
I already said the people I would be eilling to vote for. I have 2 hours to make up my mind on if I want to change. can you explain why you think a no lynch was a good idea. I already did. VE made me paranoid that scum had an ability that they could use to change the flip today. If we no-lynched, there wouldn't be a flip to change. But, I said that without reading the op again to see if it was even possible to vote no-lynch. The only role in the game that could feasibly change a lynch flip was likely the coroner. Given that it is extremely unlikely scum had more then 1 of that role, I think we should be able to trust lynches at this point. Coroner hasn't flipped though?
If you believe VE at all (you seem to via you believe mafia has an ability that fucks with flips) then kush would have been said role and self used.
|
On October 14 2012 11:01 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 10:57 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On October 14 2012 10:50 Kreb wrote:Shiao, Coag and Sloosh appearing within 8minutes after a few Shiao votes go down. If I am to move to a secondary target, thats the kind of stuff thats gonna decide where my vote go. Both Matt and Shiao are similarly scummy because of their inactivity to me, but the sudden resistance appearing for Shiao after several hours of very surprisingly low activity despite the very unfavourable situation for town with votes everywhere. Thats might definitely tip me over. Couple that with: On October 14 2012 04:31 Mattchew wrote:
also, if someone links me to a newbie game (VE you did this too WTF) for a meta read you have got to be kidding. I would say anyone under like 7 - 10 games should never be lynched on meta because there is so much room to improve and change styles Which is likely directed at me. And since I know Im town, a scum should have little reason to do this. Heavily leaning towards a Shiao vote here if I am to switch. How is it sudden resistance? To my understanding Shiao was not really ever on the docket until what? an hour or two ago, tops of 3? Meanwhile you have a player like mattchew who has been on near universally everyones scumlist at some point through this game. Why is a player who has been so apathetic and unhelpful, who isn't even playing in the interests of the town getting a free pass repeatedly? The entire shiao wagon looks like its designed to keep mattchew alive another day which I have no clue as to why. Its sudden because..... it happened right after the votes went down? Though its definitely a possibility its a designed wagon.
Given how close it is to lynch deadline, when else would it happen? If people waited till just before deadline it would look insanely weird. Given the Shiaopi lynch is a very late choice in the day, it should be getting all resistance to it early.
|
On October 14 2012 11:05 ShiaoPi wrote:
sudden cuz I wake up and check the threqd again…?
@iamp
limiyrd time caused mr to rmphasize it. cant write full cases
what?
|
On October 14 2012 11:07 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 11:04 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On October 14 2012 11:01 Kreb wrote:On October 14 2012 10:57 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On October 14 2012 10:50 Kreb wrote:Shiao, Coag and Sloosh appearing within 8minutes after a few Shiao votes go down. If I am to move to a secondary target, thats the kind of stuff thats gonna decide where my vote go. Both Matt and Shiao are similarly scummy because of their inactivity to me, but the sudden resistance appearing for Shiao after several hours of very surprisingly low activity despite the very unfavourable situation for town with votes everywhere. Thats might definitely tip me over. Couple that with: On October 14 2012 04:31 Mattchew wrote:
also, if someone links me to a newbie game (VE you did this too WTF) for a meta read you have got to be kidding. I would say anyone under like 7 - 10 games should never be lynched on meta because there is so much room to improve and change styles Which is likely directed at me. And since I know Im town, a scum should have little reason to do this. Heavily leaning towards a Shiao vote here if I am to switch. How is it sudden resistance? To my understanding Shiao was not really ever on the docket until what? an hour or two ago, tops of 3? Meanwhile you have a player like mattchew who has been on near universally everyones scumlist at some point through this game. Why is a player who has been so apathetic and unhelpful, who isn't even playing in the interests of the town getting a free pass repeatedly? The entire shiao wagon looks like its designed to keep mattchew alive another day which I have no clue as to why. Its sudden because..... it happened right after the votes went down? Though its definitely a possibility its a designed wagon. Given how close it is to lynch deadline, when else would it happen? If people waited till just before deadline it would look insanely weird. Given the Shiaopi lynch is a very late choice in the day, it should be getting all resistance to it early. Theres been surprisingly little activity last hours. That tells me mafia was fine with the situation at hand.
Or people weren't around to talk. Any way you look at it you can find reasons to dislike mattchew, and dislike shiaopi. The obvious difference to me which seperates the two is one has actively said he doesn't care, promised to do things that he doesn't follow through on and attempts to be active while never being around to leave his mark on the thread. These are all scum characteristics and everytime he is mentioned as a possible lynch case it suddenly gets pushed aside for other reasons, or people just stop discussing it and move to different things.
Look at the last game where BM, and Grush were left alive in a lylo situation and how by not being around 1 townie lost the game. I honestly can say I don't ever want to see a repeat of that.
|
On October 14 2012 11:09 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 11:00 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On October 14 2012 10:59 Keirathi wrote:On October 14 2012 10:58 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On October 14 2012 10:56 Keirathi wrote:On October 14 2012 10:53 iamperfection wrote:On October 14 2012 10:53 Keirathi wrote:
I'll put my vote on whoever I damn well please, thanks.
I already said the people I would be eilling to vote for. I have 2 hours to make up my mind on if I want to change. can you explain why you think a no lynch was a good idea. I already did. VE made me paranoid that scum had an ability that they could use to change the flip today. If we no-lynched, there wouldn't be a flip to change. But, I said that without reading the op again to see if it was even possible to vote no-lynch. The only role in the game that could feasibly change a lynch flip was likely the coroner. Given that it is extremely unlikely scum had more then 1 of that role, I think we should be able to trust lynches at this point. Coroner hasn't flipped though? If you believe VE at all (you seem to via you believe mafia has an ability that fucks with flips) then kush would have been said role and self used. The only reason anyone has ever thought that coroner could change a flip was because VE FUCKING SUGGESTED IT. In my experience, people only speculate about roles that they should have no fucking clue about when they actually have some information about said role.
You are right. VE did suggest it. However your options are, hes lying, or hes right that mafia somehow fucked with the flip. Given that the name coroner is likely something to do with dead bodies (as each role has thus far has been somehow related to its name) its not unreasonable thing to leap to. Could he be wrong? yes, but its the most obvious explanation if you think hes telling the truth.
|
DP, VE is not getting lynched today -_-
|
On October 14 2012 11:25 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 11:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
DP, VE is not getting lynched today -_- We have an hour. Why not?
Because the only reason he is really in a position to be lynched is because he wasn't shot last night. Yes the kush flip looks bad however it can easily be explained via the likelyhood mafia could hide a flip. By offing someone who is quite possibly what he claims, all you are doing is reducing the amount of confirmed townies to a lower amount and thus let them be picked off far more quickly. More specifically however, of VE, Coag and MMtoss, VE is overall doing the most thus losing him if he is town is the bigger detriment.
|
On October 14 2012 11:32 Kreb wrote:
BC, whats your thought on DP?
possibly scum, but he isn't my strongest read thus I am not sure of it. I have not seen anything he has posted jump out at me in any way like I have with others. At this time I am not really comfortable lynching him
|
On October 14 2012 11:35 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 11:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On October 14 2012 11:25 DarthPunk wrote:On October 14 2012 11:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
DP, VE is not getting lynched today -_- We have an hour. Why not? Because the only reason he is really in a position to be lynched is because he wasn't shot last night. Yes the kush flip looks bad however it can easily be explained via the likelyhood mafia could hide a flip. By offing someone who is quite possibly what he claims, all you are doing is reducing the amount of confirmed townies to a lower amount and thus let them be picked off far more quickly. More specifically however, of VE, Coag and MMtoss, VE is overall doing the most thus losing him if he is town is the bigger detriment. Hmm. Ok. but that entirely dismisses the chance of him being scum. Which is weird cause you were voting him earlier.
Yes, yes I was. I also was tunneling him hard for near similar reasons you wanted to off him for. I had to take a break and come back and think more objectively and less angry with the flip of Kush.
|
On October 14 2012 11:37 DarthPunk wrote:
Do you really think another 72 hours of speculating on VE's alignment and the setup is good for town?
If mafia shoot him and he flips, it confirms his checks. If mafia shoot one of his checks, it confirms his checks / him.
Basically, to keep the speculating going means they have to guess who he will check / confirm next and narrow the noose. If he checks someone they don't shoot it reduces the possible pool of players. Him being alive backs them into a corner.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
