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Newbie Mini Mafia XXVIII
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
This is my first game on TL Mafia, but I've been doing some lurking and would really like to get into the thick of things. Between school, work, and other obligations, I believe this would be great fun (and possibly frustrating!) On Lurker Lynching Personally, anyone who is being too quiet has something to hide. This isn't to say we should just go berserk lynching everyone who isn't posting a specific quota, but those who don't wish to participate in discussion seem rather scummy. The less you say, the less chances of slipping and making the town realize your scum. If someone is lurking extensively, calling them out on it can't hurt... and if they continue, they are afraid for a reason. | ||
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
The game began, and people were stating their opinions about lurking lynching. DP notes that talk of this policy is simply a way to engage day 1 conversation, and that extended discussion of it can be suspicious. Kush then says: On September 28 2012 09:01 kushm4sta wrote: Sorry but who appointed this asshole boss? It's quite the arrogant remark, to be honest. DP may have been a little stern with his wording, but he certainly didn't come off as an "asshole boss" to me. In my opinion, Kush came on too strong regardless of his role--and i certainly don't like the play. People have mentioned his "scummy meta", but I don't read it as scum, just inconsiderate. This remark catapulted into the DP-Kush arguments. When Kush refers to DP as an "active townie", DP accuses him of a huge slip. On September 28 2012 11:27 DarthPunk wrote: How do you know I am town? You are SCUM The accusation was simple reciprocation. Kush was strong with DP, and now DP is going hard on him with evidence. Fair enough. While the aforementioned scumslip could have been a townie error, I find Kush's response underwhelming, and still, a bit arrogant. On September 28 2012 20:12 kushm4sta wrote: 2. My supposed scumslip: huh? What else should I have called you? Player? Person? Maybe but to me those things sound awkward. Townie just seemed like the most non awkward word to use. Innocent until proven guilty. That's how we do it in America bro. To me, "The most active player; the most active person" don't seem awkward to me. The excuse is weak. And the "bro" at the end is telling of people with weak defenses that need to seem confident. Those are just my thoughts on Kush so far: Reckless, overconfident, and a little suspicious. | ||
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
On September 29 2012 01:36 kushm4sta wrote: I'm sorry you don't like my early play. Care to expand on that? I don't like your early play either, except I will tell you why: you are a lurker. It's been several hours since you said you read everything in depth, why not share your thoughts then? @stutters I'm inclined to agree here. Seems like you kind of jumped on the anti-Kush bandwagon without much thought. Admittedly, I didn't like his early play either, but I'm interested in hearing what you have to say concerning it. | ||
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
On September 29 2012 01:55 debears wrote: @Djoref Please pm marv for help. The coaches are great So you're confirming him town? | ||
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
The narrative was intentional; both to reiterate events and to weave my thoughts into it. My stance is pretty clear on Kush. He's definitely a possible lynch candidate in my eyes, but I wouldn't go as far as to vote him just yet. | ||
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
On September 29 2012 09:08 debears wrote: 1) Mafia trying to pity your way out of being lynched. or 2) A little bitch ##Vote: Kush | ||
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
Such contextual poetry! | ||
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
I found Z-BosoN's case to bear much validity, actually. It confirmed the suspicions I had when debears instantly assumed djodref was a townie. How was his case so, erm, "try harded"? | ||
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
On September 30 2012 06:09 Djodref wrote: I would like people to focus more on corrosion than debears because corrosion tired to cast a scummy shadow on Darth while deabears looks more genuine. I agree we should take the focus off of Debears, as Z-BosoN did a fair job of outlining the points against him. But why Corrosion? I realize he opposed the fact that Darth was so heavily attacking Kush, but I don't think he was casting him in a "scummy shadow". His case against Darth was based on nothing, really; just the fact that he thought pursuing the scum-slip and ignoring everyone else was a poor idea. I don't read Corrosion as scum at all. And Debears in no way looks more genuine than him. | ||
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 21:59 corrosion wrote: Let me just state the reasons that my vote is on Kush right now: I'm sorry, but I don't believe these are reasons a town would choose to make a vote. On September 29 2012 21:59 corrosion wrote: 1) I think his explanation of the slip was poor. If he had given a good explanation, I might have believed him. So the scum slip itself doesn't give you good reason to vote for him, but his poor defense does? A mafia making a scum slip could have the best explanation in the world. That doesn't exonerate them. On September 29 2012 21:59 corrosion wrote: 2) I've been thinking about who would benefit if the result is a no-lynch. I'm thinking mafia is likely to benefit the most from a no-lynch. So your second reason isn't even something that Kush has done. Wouldn't you also say that mafia would benefit from a mis-lynch more than from a no-lynch? Could you elaborate more on the bolded part, because you give no explanation as to how a mafia would benefit more from a no-lynch. On September 29 2012 21:59 corrosion wrote: Right now, I think that there's more than a 25 % chance that Kush is scum. Therefore, I'm voting for him. I'm not sure if any of these points are original. I'm having trouble keeping up with the thread, because I tend to get hanged up in details. You would think a town would want to be more than 25% sure the person they are voting for is scum. You don't even have any cases made against kush. No questions asked. Very vague reasons given... I find it odd that RSC was attacking Corrosion for voting Kush. At this point in the game, RSC had already cast his vote for Kush, and his best reason was: On September 29 2012 12:14 RemedySC wrote: You [Kush] are not creating an ideal atmosphere. RSC doesn't really have much motivation for voting Kush, other than the fact that he's disruptive to the gameplay environment. Yet, he picks apart Corrosion for voting him. I don't understand why he'd attack Corrosion's "poor reasons" at all. Take a look at the bolded part of the spoiler. He condemns Corrosion for not having made any cases again Kush, yet RSC himself hasn't done anything of the sort. RSC hasn't posted anything in regards to Kush being scum besides the "creating a bad atmosphere" and "not posting in a pro-town manner" argument. RSC doesn't seem to be any more sure than Corrosion is about lynching Kush, yet he is condemning Corrosion for having bad reasoning. His post seems hypocritical to me. @RemedySC Why, if you had voted Kush with such little evidence, were you outing Corrosion for doing something similar? You almost seemed as if you were defending Kush for no reason in this post. I'm curious, and would like to hear your opinion on things. | ||
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
Appreciate the response. I somewhat misinterpreted your goal in the post concerning Corrosion. Now that I look at it, the second reason for Corrosion's voting Kush is actually ridiculous. On a side note - are most people in this game asleep when we are able to post? Seems that way. Time differences  | ||
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
On September 30 2012 09:48 DarthPunk wrote: Hey. I am back. I fully expect to get killed tonight. At least Kush was right, he won't get NK'd :p. | ||
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
On September 30 2012 23:46 Djodref wrote: Debears didn't write "Get some help from the coaches !", he wrote me to get help from the town coach because he knows I am town. Now please have a look on how he answered me when Omniscient asked him about it + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 03:28 debears wrote: @Omniscient No. I am trying to help a newbie get into the swing of things. Last game, there was a large portion of lurkers, and it destroyed the game atmosphere. If he gets help and posts more quality, we have a much better read on him. He denies it right away and gives a town motivation for his post. But then he starts talking about lurkers. I think lurkers and newbies are two different things and he was trying to divert everybody with this line. Thank you for pointing this out. When I asked him about it at first, I didn't think much of it. But now that I look at his response, it seems to inherently dodge the question; no mention of why Marv specifically. Also, don't write stuff like this: On September 30 2012 23:46 Djodref wrote: For the people suspecting me, please consider this post written by a town Djodref ^^ By flaunting yourself as town, you make yourself look suspicious. And for those that have scumreads on you, that can only provide a point for them. | ||
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
On October 01 2012 01:29 Djodref wrote: In fact, this is what I did by checking the filter of corrosion. I read his twice with the two following assumptions :
His filter makes more sense with the second option, especially when I look at his latest posts. So I have a mild town-read on him. @Djodref That's exactly my read on him atm. He certainly seems more newbie-town than scum right now. This is why I was questioned your suspicions of him. Glad to see we can agree on this read. | ||
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
On October 01 2012 02:09 Djodref wrote: Also Remedy is too much of a lurker. I don't think we are going to encounter lylo or mylo situations in this game but I hope that we can get something of him before this... This was a reason I made a post about him. Granted, the post itself wasn't on the best foundation and plagued by some misinterpretations, but it was an effort to get his input on things. You can see that he posted a large post after me, and that's it. I respect his defense, and I'm curious to hear what he thinks about the Debears situation, or the other cases made earlier on night 1. | ||
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
Thoughts on night actions: On October 01 2012 05:14 DarthPunk wrote: LOL. Seems scum really went for it. Nice medic save! I'm guessing scum targeted Darth, and the medic saved him. He was the obvious candidate for NK, but the mafia tried to kill him anyway despite there being a high chance that a medic would be on him. This means that scum is desperate to get Darth out of the game. Why? Not only was he correct about Kush, but he gave his 3 top scum reads during the night in this order: Debears Djodref Alsn From my perspective: since scum targeted Darth, one of his three reads has a high likelihood of being correct. If he was headed in the wrong direction with these reads, scum would have taken out someone else and let him lead us astray. Attempting to NK Darth was a huge risk, but I believe it's one scum had to take because he was so on track, and having him alive would spell their doom in the end. What does everyone else think? | ||
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
On October 01 2012 07:47 RemedySC wrote: Omni, you seem very sure of your prediction, and actually very detailed. Maybe a mafia trying to cover up after a bad night? At first you say you are guessing, but by your second paragraph you seem pretty sure of yourself. I'm pointing this out because there are many more possibilities as to what happened, and I think speculating on this a waste of time. Also this could be a way of sidetracking the discussion. As for what else could have happened - 1) Scum could have hit someone (DarthPunk or otherwise) and they were saved/jailed 2) A JK jailed the scum who took the shot. 3) Whoever got shot was a veteran 4) Scum didn't send in night actions (Not likely) That's why I think your "thoughts" are more mafia motivated. ##FOS Omniscient4983 If you're saved by a medic, don't you get a PM that states this? The reason I quoted Darth was because he stated that a medic saved him. Was this an assumption on his part? I took it as truth. | ||
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
On October 01 2012 11:06 RemedySC wrote: . Also you point out three people, which out of the three you say there is a high likelihood of one being scum. So i'm going to ask, who is your top scum read? Debears without a doubt. Djodref I see as leaning town and Alsn is still pretty null / slightly scum for me, even after previewing some cases against him. I was suspicious of Debears ever since I questioned his claiming Djodref as town. I find that he has a ton of posts throughout the thread, many that are long cases against various people. At the beginning of night 1, I thought we should move away from him to pursue other cases; however, since that time, I think a lot of his posts are attempting to deflect attention away from him and at other people. It isn't that these posts are void of content, it is that they seem extensive and overbearing as if to crowd the thread with information that isn't anti-debears. As for my vote: ##Vote Debears @Alsn On October 01 2012 23:45 Alsn wrote: @Omniscient I'd like you to respond to RemedySC's questions, but I'd also like to ask you about the following quote: What made you suspect that stutters suddenly jumped the kush bandwagon? At that point there wasn't even much of a wagon to jump onto. Yes, Darth had been pressuing kush pretty hard, but other than that people had been mostly cautious at that stage. I would argue that Stutters and SDM actually caused the wagon. I questioned Stutters for bandwagoning because of this brief post: On September 29 2012 00:00 Stutters695 wrote: I'm awake. Catching up now. First impression is I really don't like Kush's early play. At the time, it looked like he had just kind of taken the flavor of the thread (which was, through and through, anti-Kush after the YOU ARE SCUM accusation by Darth) and posted it into his "I'm back!" post. It was a few hours since this post, and he had not posted since. The "first impression" seemed like the only input he was giving. You'll see that about an hour or so after my post (and a few after his), he gives his thoughts and opinions here: + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 02:27 Stutters695 wrote: Alright, here are my thoughts. Starting with this post (^). You have issues with reading or you're misrepresenting intentionally. I said "there isn't anything to talk about this early. As in the time of posting that what can we discuss except lurker and simple policy that has nothing to do with a case. Number two is obvious because you have played multiple games. Not everyone has. My first game I played like I described in my post and was dead weight. I was carried and simply posting more would have helped out with that. Even if it is completely obvious to everyone in the game it still was worth saying. It gave you something to accuse me with, which opens up discussion. Now onto your other case of misrepresenting (Full quote in spoiler for context, relevant part is immediately after). + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 00:35 kushm4sta wrote: Darthpunk 1 You ask people what they think of me, Then when they don't tell you the exact answer you want to hear, you accuse them of defending me. What you meant was agree with me about kush or I will FOS you. 2 Did anyone notice how I went from DEFINITELY SCUM to a "distraction" instantly and without reason? @darthpunk Why did you unvote me if you are certain I am scum? He explains his strategy: So why have you already FOSed 3 different people? 3 Darth's scumstrat is not so much to flame but to provoke. This is from the post in which he FOSes Alsn. Not even his most inflamatory statement but pay close attention to his tone in his posts. Specifically, "Savvy?" Condescending, intimidating, irritating. He wants you to get pissed. 4 @Darthpunk at the end of newbie 26, marv said scum's biggest mistake was not nightkilling me. So your supposition that scum would never nightkill me is in itself ridiculous. It was an indirect flame, suggesting I play bad, and that's all that post was. Can you show me where this happened? I checked the postgame from XXVI and it wasn't there. I checked the pregame for XXVII and it wasn't there. The closest I found was this post from Hapa that says they made the mistake of shooting kreb N2 because of the gut read Jacob had on you as town and that they couldn't kill Jacob, you and myself at once N3 to reduce the number of confirmed/near-confirmed. If this is the quote, it wasn't that your amazing play put you in such a confirmed town role that they should have shot you, its that Jacob (de-facto town leader) thought you were town. He isn't off the mark in saying that your play makes it so you don't get night-killed. If Jacob had been iffy about you I'd bet money Hapa wouldn't have said anything about scum shooting you. Instead of addressing why less than a day into the game you aren't worried about a nightkill you accuse him of flaming while misrepresenting previous games to avoid answering. Here he did a good job of addressing Kush, and calling him out on the "at least i won't be nk" response. The reason I thought Stutters was "jumping on the bandwagon" was because it seemed as if he were taking what was obvious, and specifically agreeing with it briefly in his return post. After hearing his reasons as to why he didn't like his early play (i.e avoiding answering and accusing of flaming), he effectively answered my question. If Stutter's reasons were there, I wouldn't have thought he was jumping on the bandwagon. Overall, my slightly-town reads are: Djodref, Corrosion, BosoN, and of course, Darth My best scum read is Debears, and a slight scum-read is on Alsn. The rest (especially Lesrah!!! haha) Are fairly null. | ||
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
@DarthPunk You promised a cookie, where is it? | ||
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
On October 02 2012 04:18 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: I get really paranoid when people jump the Debears wagon with this kind of reasoning. He's making too many long many cases? Really, that's what confirms your suspicion? I'm not jumping the wagon--I've always thought Debears would be a candidate for lynch. There are many points against him, including the association / defense of Kush, townie reference, meta-based arguments, etc... the only thing as of late that erks me is all the different cases. It seems as if he's diverting attention / spreading chaos to make the case against him seem insignificant as compared to those of others. Z-BosoN made an extensive case against him--reference it if you'd like. The long cases don't so much confirm the suspicion as they do add to it. | ||
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
I'm sure a few people have mentioned this about Corrosion: the fact that he "attacked" Darth, or, as someone said, "cast a scummy shadow" on him. At this point, he doesn't totally trust Darth because it's d1, and Kush isn't obvious scum yet. Personally, it seems like he is trying to be objective about the issue at hand. He points out a totally plausible case. On September 29 2012 04:29 corrosion wrote: One of the first things Darth did was to antagonize Kush: + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: No it's not. It is simply a mechanism to get the discussion going and allows scum to seem to participate and to potentially mislynch an inactive townie. Any more talk of policy will get you FoS'd. I'm thinking that this could easily be an attempt to start a fight that would result in derailing the thread. Later, he mentions that Kush is indeed suspicious but doesn't want to focus on one person like Darth is. I don't see it as scum-motivation or an attack on Darth. I see it as common sense. As for my post saying that his second reason for voting Kush was ridiculous: it was. It has nothing to do with Kush. He basically says that it would be better to pull a name out of a hat and lynch them than have a no-lynch. However, I think he's coming off as genuinely newbie-town. He's trying to contribute. I also find this post to be very town-like. On October 01 2012 00:29 corrosion wrote: Darth's response was clear and to the point (pointing out the error in my post). I liked it. I also think Remedy made good points: + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 23:15 RemedySC wrote: I'm sorry, but I don't believe these are reasons a town would choose to make a vote. So the scum slip itself doesn't give you good reason to vote for him, but his poor defense does? A mafia making a scum slip could have the best explanation in the world. That doesn't exonerate them. So your second reason isn't even something that Kush has done. Wouldn't you also say that mafia would benefit from a mis-lynch more than from a no-lynch? Could you elaborate more on the bolded part, because you give no explanation as to how a mafia would benefit more from a no-lynch. You would think a town would want to be more than 25% sure the person they are voting for is scum. You don't even have any cases made against kush. No questions asked. Very vague reasons given... This looks like good scum-hunting to me. Well done. He likes the feedback he is getting. If he were scum, he likely would have gotten very defensive about these points in efforts to exonerate himself. He admits faults; something I think scum would have a hard time doing. That is just, in brief, why i have a slight-town read on Corrosion. Nothing decisive as of yet. Unfortunately, he says he won't be around to post much more, and can't be sure on my read of him if he ceases to post. | ||
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
Sup? | ||
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
On October 02 2012 07:32 debears wrote: @omniscient What would you rather me do? 1) post nothing 2) post worthless shit spread out 3) post cases all in one post 4) Be decisive. The thread doesn't need to know every thought you have. You're talking about this person, then that person, then that guy over there. It's not that these cases aren't truthful/don't hold merit. I just find all of it to be a bit excessive. I apologize if it's inherently wrong to view it in such a manner. | ||
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Omniscient4983
United States32 Posts
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. But a big national holiday is coming this week end so I should be able to participate to the thread and finish to read all the guides.
