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Rockband Mini Mafia

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 16 2012 18:57 GMT
#12
/in
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 16 2012 19:55 GMT
#19
this all makes signing up offsite even funnier
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 16 2012 21:10 GMT
#24
On September 17 2012 05:45 Blazinghand wrote:
you should call me Terran cause I'm all /in


i'll 6 gate yo ass
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 16 2012 21:15 GMT
#26
On September 17 2012 06:14 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2012 06:10 marvellosity wrote:
On September 17 2012 05:45 Blazinghand wrote:
you should call me Terran cause I'm all /in


i'll 6 gate yo ass


Unless that's a 1 base build you gotta survive my 1 base attack first


Fine. 4-gate.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 16 2012 21:20 GMT
#28
On September 17 2012 06:17 Blazinghand wrote:
[image loading]
In This Picture: Mvp presents his solution to the Protoss Deathball.


Fine, I'll defeat your initial rush but then I won't be stupid enough to subsequently get my units trapped.

Howzat?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 17 2012 11:58 GMT
#39
Before this starts - gonna try to be somewhat less posty and more thinky this game. Let's see if I succeed.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-17 12:04:23
September 17 2012 12:03 GMT
#41
I figure SK, but whatevs

edit: also Mementoss, you're well aware that for me, "posting less" is still "posting considerably more than most other people"
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 17 2012 21:46 GMT
#61
yesssss, I get to live because of WIFOM!

hi all <3
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 17 2012 21:46 GMT
#62
P.S the whole point is that iamp's suggestion wasn't random, so we already have a liar. LAL?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 17 2012 21:48 GMT
#65
On September 18 2012 06:47 prplhz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2012 06:46 marvellosity wrote:
P.S the whole point is that iamp's suggestion wasn't random, so we already have a liar. LAL?

And how exactly do you know whether it was random or not?


my superlative mafia skills tell me so
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 17 2012 22:23 GMT
#88
austin, you're not playing with grush.

speak plainly or die like a little bitch.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 01:31 GMT
#153
On September 18 2012 09:55 Mementoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2012 09:54 Hapahauli wrote:
Well tbh, you could make that entire chart red - I lynched goodkarma in one game because I thought his play was "too clean" =P

But back to iamperfection, I'm definitely leaning scummy to him for now. I can't yet discount him just being plain pissed that you voted for him (a townie OMGUS type thing), but the sudden severity of it all is just really strange.


Answer this, why would scum make their first post that? It obviously wouldn't do anything towards getting Marv lynched. It would only bring negative attention towards himself.


so that people like you would go "he must be town because scum would never do this!"

hmm?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 11:53 GMT
#177
On September 18 2012 20:33 prplhz wrote:
Disclaimer: I don't read any analysis that refer to the "Zephirdd Rule" also known as the "Kenpachi Rule Extended" because I think it's bullshit.

Anyway, HapaHauli is playing active and townie and I have no interest in lynching him today. Ange777 is looking terrible though.

@Ange777 Have you been scum at any point and can you direct me to one of those games?

List of people who suck: Bluelightz, marvellosity.


Agreed, I've not done anything yet. Something decent to come when I get a decent chunk of time today.

Ange listed her entire history last game in GSL Open. Do your own research you lazy sod, especially when it was given to you just one bloody game ago. Funny how you forget so quickly.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 11:54 GMT
#178
On September 18 2012 13:58 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh lastly, can someone who is familiar with Zeph's meta tell me if he's capable of making horribad cases as town? The confirmation-bias in his posts makes me think so, but I'd rather hear it straight from a vet or two.

G'nite folks.


Yes, he made the worst case in the universe on me last game.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 12:46 GMT
#181
On September 18 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote:
you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on. Although i dont think that was the point of your case i think the purpose was to drive discussion which it has done. Kudos to you.

The purpose of my random lynch was an attempt to drive some discussion. I had already discussed with marv after my previous game in which palmar suggested a random lynch in order to drive discussion on day 1.

Thats why i find it extremely wierd that marv didnt think it was random when i had already spoken with him that i would do it in my next game.
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2012 06:46 marvellosity wrote:
P.S the whole point is that iamp's suggestion wasn't random, so we already have a liar. LAL?


I say we respect his wishes.

## Vote Marvelosity


Rereading the thread, and I need to comment on this. Random lynch isn't coming in to the thread and going "let's lynch this guy."

You should know this VERY WELL having seen how Palmar went about it; he proposes a methodical method where we all go to some website he set up or some shit and roll a RNG. The point of Palmar's random-lynch is that it is demonstrably random to the whole thread. Yours was not demonstrably random.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 12:47 GMT
#182
"a methodical method" - nice marv, nice
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 12:49 GMT
#183
On September 18 2012 09:39 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2012 09:32 Hapahauli wrote:
On September 18 2012 09:26 austinmcc wrote:
On September 18 2012 08:27 Hapahauli wrote:
##Unvote

@ Austinmcc - Well posted and thanks for explaining your rationale. Enough for me to take the vote off for now.
BH you're high-fiving Hapa. You okay with the speed at which he swapped off me?

marv, I'd like your thoughts here as well. Do you feel the same way hapa does about my explanation?


My D1 voting spreads like an STD.

In all seriousness, your explanation was good - everyone was on you for a bit because you weren't clear about your rationale. Explaining rationale ----> vote removed.

As for marv, I believe he's putting the finishing touches on the newbie game he's hosting, so he probably won't be around for a bit.
I got no problem with everyone being on me, that phase actually happens in a decent number of my games.

But I have no ability to judge the clarity of my explanation. I need other thoughts on how clear you seemed to find it. It also helps me see the thought processes behind their own reads, except BH. When you question him, he appears to become Drazerk.


Could you expand on this austin?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 12:51 GMT
#184
On September 18 2012 21:46 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote:
you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on. Although i dont think that was the point of your case i think the purpose was to drive discussion which it has done. Kudos to you.

The purpose of my random lynch was an attempt to drive some discussion. I had already discussed with marv after my previous game in which palmar suggested a random lynch in order to drive discussion on day 1.

Thats why i find it extremely wierd that marv didnt think it was random when i had already spoken with him that i would do it in my next game.
On September 18 2012 06:46 marvellosity wrote:
P.S the whole point is that iamp's suggestion wasn't random, so we already have a liar. LAL?


I say we respect his wishes.

## Vote Marvelosity


Rereading the thread, and I need to comment on this. Random lynch isn't coming in to the thread and going "let's lynch this guy."

You should know this VERY WELL having seen how Palmar went about it; he proposes a methodical method where we all go to some website he set up or some shit and roll a RNG. The point of Palmar's random-lynch is that it is demonstrably random to the whole thread. Yours was not demonstrably random.


sorry to spam, carried on through the thread and people have brought this up already. Do carry on.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 13:19 GMT
#191
On September 18 2012 10:50 Zephirdd wrote:

Show nested quote +
On September 18 2012 07:04 Hapahauli wrote:
... or it's not obvious at all, and it's a typical bad D1 case making insane meta connections with barely any samplesize?

If you're pressuring him or whatever, cool, but the case is in no way "damning" or "TOO obvious." In fact, I'd expect scum to be the people most willing to be jumping on BH's case without so much as a thought. Namely austinmcc and mementoss

How does he defend prplhz? "Oh it's just bad play. hey maybe we should look at these two other players instead".
A town player can never know if another player is just playing badly. A scum player, however, always does.

I've done that countless times as scum. Dismissing a case on a townie by saying he isn't playing optimally, but not considering the fact that it could be a scum play.

"The people most willing to jump on BH's case" are people who just agreed with a case that was just built early on. The thing about strong cases(I say BH had a strong case at that point) is that when you are scum and you recognize a case as a strong one, you will try to defend that townie in order to gain cred post-flip. The earlier you do it, the better, and if he is never lynched that townie will at least like you for a while.

Hapahauli's main argument against BH's case is the sample size, where BH basically covered three months worth of games. Meta is not a productive argument when you go much farther back(I'd argue that three months was too much), and he says BH would need more research to have a good case.



BH has pretty much echoed my thoughts on Zephirdd's case on Hapahauli. It's not good at all and as pointed out by Hapa himself contains multiple misrepresentations (over the top/scummy kept coming up and that's just basic reading comprehension).

Further, the part of the case that I've just quoted makes almost no sense to me whatsoever. In the quote Zeph provides, where does Hapa say that prplhz is playing badly? He's saying he didn't like BH's case. A town player can very well know when another player is playing badly. For example, Zephirdd, you are playing badly whether you are town or scum.

The entire case is built on stretches and misrepresentations.

I would also like to talk about the retarded 'Zephirdd rule'. Let's break it down in essence - the first time someone says something stupid/bad/scummy, the first person to jump on it is scum. What does this actually mean? Town is supposed to let the first dumbass comment slide and only comment on the SECOND person being a dumbass/scummy? The whole rule basically proposes that the first person to be bad should be left untouched.

I also think that he's using this rule as an excuse to make a case without actually having to think about what's gone on in the thread properly. He's spotted something that adheres to his 'rule' and has then fabricated the rest of the case out of nothing.



Shame goodkarma is replacing out. His first post was scummy as hell. Not the general wishywashyness/not voting, but the fact that he was willing to talk about policy/trolling. I'm going to be keeping a close eye on his replacement. Look at this:

On September 18 2012 07:17 goodkarma wrote:

However, that prplhlz's play doesn't generate any meaningful discussion is a valid point. This is definitely scummy behavior.

On Policy Discussion:
As for how the game's started out: now for the last few games I've played in they start with trolling, which turns into hasty accusations, which then eventually turns into an actual game of scumhunting... We've already gone this direction again... I don't understand why policy has been so rarely brought up at the start of games (at least the games that I've played), as it is far more productive than trolling.

I'd like to briefly discuss policy here:
If for whatever reason we can't find someone who we feel has a decent chance of flipping scum, I propose we lynch a lurker. Tbh, I don't believe we will have this problem. But we should have some kind of contingency plan to fall back on if discussion, for whatever reason, takes us nowhere.


The thread has already generated a scumread for GK, but for some reason he's derailing into policy discussion. Look at what he says - policy discussion is far more productive than the direction this game has gone. But look at how this game has gone. This might be the most productive Day 1 I've ever seen. Why is he complaining about it?



As per usual I don't get BL's case on Mementoss. It looks like he's posting a load of unalignment indicative things and going "look! scum!". I'm pretty nullish on Mementoss right now.



With the high activity of some portions of the town, I think there's gonna be at least 1 scum sitting back and enjoying the show. At the moment this leaves me with mfkuba, Ange777, and HiroPro. I know fuba from outside of TL Mafia and at the moment I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and see if he posts more. Ange just seems to be getting involved in the discussion, so fine. At the moment I'm looking at HiroPro.

Distinctly from the other two, he's actually been around posting, except what he's been posting is minimal and effortless. He voted for goodkarma but with barely an elaboration (I elaborated more above and that was just in passing). Other than that, he's posted a few times, but actually done nothing at all.

##Vote: HiroPro
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 13:20 GMT
#192
On September 18 2012 22:17 iamperfection wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2012 22:17 Ange777 wrote:
How about you give your own scum reads iamperfection?

On September 18 2012 10:29 iamperfection wrote:
On September 18 2012 09:55 Mementoss wrote:
On September 18 2012 09:54 Hapahauli wrote:
Well tbh, you could make that entire chart red - I lynched goodkarma in one game because I thought his play was "too clean" =P

But back to iamperfection, I'm definitely leaning scummy to him for now. I can't yet discount him just being plain pissed that you voted for him (a townie OMGUS type thing), but the sudden severity of it all is just really strange.


Answer this, why would scum make their first post that? It obviously wouldn't do anything towards getting Marv lynched. It would only bring negative attention towards himself.

people that defend me frighten me.


Why so scared?

The last 2 people that defended me were scum. They now im town so they defend me.


Ange's main point was "who are your scumreads". Answer it. Do something.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 14:48 GMT
#215
Let's kill HiroPro. Or tell me why you think he could possibly be town with his current posting. Gogo.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 14:56 GMT
#219
On September 18 2012 23:54 Ange777 wrote:
@marv:

I don't remember if I've played with Hiro (probably not). Is there some meta play I should be aware of? Otherwise I can't understand why you are pushing a HiroPro lynch when I feel like prplhz is far more scummy.

@iamperfection:

Saying Zeph defended you by accusing your accuser is a stretch. Why wouldn't you accuse Mementoss instead who actually did defend you?


Because prplhz has at least done *something* and HiroPro hasn't?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 15:01 GMT
#221
On September 19 2012 00:00 Mementoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2012 23:56 marvellosity wrote:
On September 18 2012 23:54 Ange777 wrote:
@marv:

I don't remember if I've played with Hiro (probably not). Is there some meta play I should be aware of? Otherwise I can't understand why you are pushing a HiroPro lynch when I feel like prplhz is far more scummy.

@iamperfection:

Saying Zeph defended you by accusing your accuser is a stretch. Why wouldn't you accuse Mementoss instead who actually did defend you?


Because prplhz has at least done *something* and HiroPro hasn't?


Wouldn't by the same logic you would have MKFuba in there?


Show nested quote +
On September 18 2012 23:54 Ange777 wrote:
@iamperfection:

Saying Zeph defended you by accusing your accuser is a stretch. Why wouldn't you accuse Mementoss instead who actually did defend you?


Why did you purposely leave Palmar's name out when you clearly quoted him "defending" iamperfection in the same fashion I did in your own post before? Seen below:

+ Show Spoiler +
On September 18 2012 23:48 Ange777 wrote:
@Palmar:

Show nested quote +
On September 18 2012 22:57 Palmar wrote:
On September 18 2012 09:39 iamperfection wrote:
On September 18 2012 09:38 Hapahauli wrote:
On September 18 2012 09:35 iamperfection wrote:
On September 18 2012 09:35 Hapahauli wrote:
On September 18 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote:
you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on. Although i dont think that was the point of your case i think the purpose was to drive discussion which it has done. Kudos to you.

The purpose of my random lynch was an attempt to drive some discussion. I had already discussed with marv after my previous game in which palmar suggested a random lynch in order to drive discussion on day 1.

Thats why i find it extremely wierd that marv didnt think it was random when i had already spoken with him that i would do it in my next game.
On September 18 2012 06:46 marvellosity wrote:
P.S the whole point is that iamp's suggestion wasn't random, so we already have a liar. LAL?


I say we respect his wishes.

## Vote Marvelosity


Geebus why are you flipping out?

what?


"you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on."

Seems very unnecessarily critical/harsh/attacking. Like I don't think his case is good either, but that's just over the top and scummy imo.

he is a big boy. i dont think he will lose sleep over it.


Confirms my post above. No scum would say this.


Why wouldn't scum say this? While I agree with Blazinghand and hapa leaning town, I can't understand how you are giving iamperfection townie points.



I commented on fuba already, if you care to read my posts. The point with Hiro is that he posted several times but without any substance whatsoever.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 15:07 GMT
#223
On September 19 2012 00:04 Mementoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 19 2012 00:01 marvellosity wrote:
On September 19 2012 00:00 Mementoss wrote:
On September 18 2012 23:56 marvellosity wrote:
On September 18 2012 23:54 Ange777 wrote:
@marv:

I don't remember if I've played with Hiro (probably not). Is there some meta play I should be aware of? Otherwise I can't understand why you are pushing a HiroPro lynch when I feel like prplhz is far more scummy.

@iamperfection:

Saying Zeph defended you by accusing your accuser is a stretch. Why wouldn't you accuse Mementoss instead who actually did defend you?


Because prplhz has at least done *something* and HiroPro hasn't?


Wouldn't by the same logic you would have MKFuba in there?


On September 18 2012 23:54 Ange777 wrote:
@iamperfection:

Saying Zeph defended you by accusing your accuser is a stretch. Why wouldn't you accuse Mementoss instead who actually did defend you?


Why did you purposely leave Palmar's name out when you clearly quoted him "defending" iamperfection in the same fashion I did in your own post before? Seen below:

+ Show Spoiler +
On September 18 2012 23:48 Ange777 wrote:
@Palmar:

Show nested quote +
On September 18 2012 22:57 Palmar wrote:
On September 18 2012 09:39 iamperfection wrote:
On September 18 2012 09:38 Hapahauli wrote:
On September 18 2012 09:35 iamperfection wrote:
On September 18 2012 09:35 Hapahauli wrote:
On September 18 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote:
you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on. Although i dont think that was the point of your case i think the purpose was to drive discussion which it has done. Kudos to you.

The purpose of my random lynch was an attempt to drive some discussion. I had already discussed with marv after my previous game in which palmar suggested a random lynch in order to drive discussion on day 1.

Thats why i find it extremely wierd that marv didnt think it was random when i had already spoken with him that i would do it in my next game.
On September 18 2012 06:46 marvellosity wrote:
P.S the whole point is that iamp's suggestion wasn't random, so we already have a liar. LAL?


I say we respect his wishes.

## Vote Marvelosity


Geebus why are you flipping out?

what?


"you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on."

Seems very unnecessarily critical/harsh/attacking. Like I don't think his case is good either, but that's just over the top and scummy imo.

he is a big boy. i dont think he will lose sleep over it.


Confirms my post above. No scum would say this.


Why wouldn't scum say this? While I agree with Blazinghand and hapa leaning town, I can't understand how you are giving iamperfection townie points.



I commented on fuba already, if you care to read my posts. The point with Hiro is that he posted several times but without any substance whatsoever.


I am reading your posts, basically it says, MKFuba is doing the exact same thing as Hiro but I know him IRL so I'll focus on HiroPro, is this not correct?


Incorrect, fuba basically hadn't posted AT ALL, whereas Hiro *was* posting, but what he was posting was worthless. How do you not see the distinction?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 15:26 GMT
#235
On September 19 2012 00:21 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 19 2012 00:17 Zephirdd wrote:
On September 19 2012 00:15 Ange777 wrote:
@Zeph:

What makes Palmar town? Posting that big list dividing us in town, null and scum reads?

Meta. He's shown waaaay too much interest to be scum palmar

Nothing in my filter suggests I'm town yet. I've only been confirmed town once so far, but you're not good enough to notice it, so why do you want to be my friend?


Pretty much this. If people want to make any sort of meaningful comparison, check out NMM3 (town) vs Bureaucracy (mafia) where Palmar actually did post a decent amount.

The way Zeph backed down from his dumb case is super weak as well. I don't know why Zeph is picking on prplhz for asking questions when all Hiro has done is ask questions whereas at least prplhz made one post contributing some opinions.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 15:36 GMT
#237
On September 19 2012 00:35 Ange777 wrote:
@marv: I am far more comfortable lynching someone I have a scum read on (prplhz) than a semi-lurker (HiroPro). Especially as I feel that his posting is exactly the same as GSL Open.


What specifically makes prplhz scummier than HiroPro?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 16:08 GMT
#245
On September 19 2012 00:57 HiroPro wrote:
k, Palmar is scum. hapa probably is too. Not because of Zeph's case though lol.


Somewhat curious why you signed up for this game. Care to tell us?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 16:24 GMT
#248
On September 19 2012 01:23 prplhz wrote:
HiroPro we're not lynching Palmar on day1 on anything other than a scum claim end of story. I'm sure you can see why so find something else to do with your time.


What is this? Determining Palmar's alignment is obviously always going to be a crucial aspect of any game. Why are you trying to shut down discussion on this?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 16:32 GMT
#250
why do GK and Palmar look town to you, then?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 16:35 GMT
#252
On September 19 2012 01:33 prplhz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 19 2012 01:32 marvellosity wrote:
why do GK and Palmar look town to you, then?

Well, goodkarma looks town because he was putting effort into his posts and because he was pushing the right agendas and because he replaced out (sorry, but town replaces out 10 times more than scum). Palmar is looking interested in this game and that's good enough for me for now. You will agree with me that HiroPro's case is not exactly overly convincing.


No, it's not convincing, but I found his point about throwing a bunch of new candidates into an already divided town pretty decent. I disagree on GK for the reason I outlined earlier.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 16:53 GMT
#258
##Unvote
##Vote: Palmar


fuck you
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 16:54 GMT
#260
don't care
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 16:57 GMT
#263
Palmar is being awful

he should die

he read my alignment correctly in NMM3 and I refuse to believe he'd so arbitrarily get it so wrong here

straight OMGUS, deal with it
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 17:00 GMT
#265
especially as i specifically made the point pre-game I was going to try to post less :/
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 17:27 GMT
#271
On September 19 2012 02:25 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Marv

Regarding this:
Show nested quote +
On September 19 2012 01:35 marvellosity wrote:
On September 19 2012 01:33 prplhz wrote:
On September 19 2012 01:32 marvellosity wrote:
why do GK and Palmar look town to you, then?

Well, goodkarma looks town because he was putting effort into his posts and because he was pushing the right agendas and because he replaced out (sorry, but town replaces out 10 times more than scum). Palmar is looking interested in this game and that's good enough for me for now. You will agree with me that HiroPro's case is not exactly overly convincing.


No, it's not convincing, but I found his point about throwing a bunch of new candidates into an already divided town pretty decent. I disagree on GK for the reason I outlined earlier.


Why do you find Hiro's point compelling if you think he's mafia? You had your vote firmly on him at this point, and I don't understand why you'd be all of a sudden so willing to listen to, what appears to me as a weak observation about Palmar?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember you being fairly critical of the town in DN Mini mafia for wanting to lynch Palmar D1.


So I'm voting someone for not contributing, they contribute something I find interesting and I'm supposed to ignore it? Get lost.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 17:28 GMT
#273
Palmar's play so far:

1. lol call 3 people scum for no reason
2. give out townreads to make self look townie (wow I can do this too, does this actually give town credit around here now? I should have known)
3. vote someone for no reason

na, piss off Palmar.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 17:29 GMT
#274
On September 19 2012 02:26 prplhz wrote:
hapa too good

##Vote marvellosity


weak as shit
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 17:30 GMT
#275
On September 19 2012 02:16 prplhz wrote:
Okay guys, I'm going to post a townie list! Green for emphasis!

prplhz
Blazinghand
Palmar
iamperfection
Hapahauli
Mementoss


Gonna go read more filters.


wow, this is super helpful for scumhunting! go prplhz, you're so awesome!
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 17:35 GMT
#276
prplhz has not given us one bloody scumread the WHOLE GAME.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 19:25 GMT
#282
On September 19 2012 03:53 Hapahauli wrote:
Let's not get carried away on the marv thing yet (@ prplhz). I'm generally very hesitant when lynching vets unless there's a really good case against them. I still need some answers, namely...

@ Marv
Show nested quote +
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember you being fairly critical of the town in DN Mini mafia for wanting to lynch Palmar D1.


Also, are you voting Palmar because you think he's scum? It looks to me like you're using it as an insult as opposed to voting for scum.


that's not a question, that's a stupid statement

care to tell me how troll Palmar who made one post in Death Note is the same as retard Palmer in Rock Band who comes into the thread pointing fingers in an unsubstantiated fashion?

Still, I think Palmar might just be awful this game.

prplhz jumping on my vote, however, is scummy as shit.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 19:29 GMT
#283
believe it or not from my previous post, exercising has calmed me down.

So

##Unvote
##vote: prplhz


Scumhunt or die like a squirmy thing that squirms. Don't want your stupid townlists that don't help anything or "lol nice catch I'm gonna vote this with no other reasoning".
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 19:31 GMT
#284
On September 19 2012 04:24 Ange777 wrote:
At the same time marv's OMGUS vote is plain stupid. If you are town you should stop this. If you seriously think the other is scum present a case.



Lecturing me has a provenly high success rate of altering how I play.

By 'provenly high' I mean absolutely zero. If you think I'm scum, vote me, if you don't, don't tell me how to play. And I mean this as politely as possible.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 19:39 GMT
#286
Ange, dear, what do you make of Hapa's point in the first place?

Like, Hapa is a clever fellow. The line of reasoning he proposed - "you think he's scum therefore why would you consider what he has to say" seems really off to me. Not quite as off as prplhz agreeing with it mind, but off nonetheless.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 20:04 GMT
#290
HiroPro, as I'm feeling lazy, can you dig out actual quotes with timestamps re: the Mementoss/Hapa early voting shenannies? Otherwise I'll have to do it myself and that makes me sad
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 20:07 GMT
#291
On September 19 2012 05:03 HiroPro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 19 2012 01:37 HiroPro wrote:
perfection, I'd like to hear what you think about my point on hapahauli.



Show nested quote +
Let's not get carried away on the marv thing yet (@ prplhz). I'm generally very hesitant when lynching vets unless there's a really good case against them. I still need some answers, namely...


Is this something that hapa normally feels? I remember him voting for Palmar in DN for no other reason than that Palmar was trolling.


lol nice catch

On September 01 2012 08:56 Hapahauli wrote:
##Vote Palmar

He's the only guy who's been useless and isn't heading for a modkill.



[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 20:19 GMT
#294
The fact is that you made the vote at all, Hapa.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 20:22 GMT
#297
sorry, how has prplhz been useful in any way?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 20:26 GMT
#301
funny how you keep avoiding Hiro's Mementoss point, isn't it Hapa?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 20:28 GMT
#303
read the fucking thread.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 20:30 GMT
#305
I'm not voting him.

Read the thread.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 20:32 GMT
#307
oh yeah.

giggle
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 20:32 GMT
#308
genuinely missed that post. was that while i was pissed off? :x
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 20:33 GMT
#310
hmm, re-reading

"yes that was a contradiction" isn't really a defence for making the contradiction in the first place.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 20:34 GMT
#311
also, I'll answer you on Palmar if you can give me a coherent scum motivation behind my blatant OMGUS

gogogo
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 20:37 GMT
#314
what's the contradiction?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 20:42 GMT
#319
On September 19 2012 05:38 Zephirdd wrote:
Huh. Missed page 15. K got an idea.

Palmar, blazinghand, hapahauli. Your opinions on prplhz?
Ange777, your opinion on marv?

Marv and prplhz, your opinion on mmtoss and austin?

These are important to make some sense here. You can ask stuff to me too.


middle of the pack. Mementoss perhaps the town side of null, I have him down as "strident and sensible". austin the scummy side of null for being absent at important times and not being too relevant with his contributions.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 20:46 GMT
#323
hapa, answer meh
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 20:52 GMT
#330
I'm amazed you think weak sheeping from a seasoned player is a null tell, hapa.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 20:59 GMT
#339
On September 19 2012 05:55 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 19 2012 05:52 marvellosity wrote:
I'm amazed you think weak sheeping from a seasoned player is a null tell, hapa.


Seasoned players vote like that all the time, and I have yet to connect a mafia-mentality with prplhz.


So far all he's done is provide pointless townread and sheep pathetically, and you're reading town?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 21:00 GMT
#341
On September 19 2012 05:57 Blazinghand wrote:
Any thoughts on my Mkfuba lynch? A lot of questions, but no responses from you guys. Feel free to support or criticize. I welcome it.


I'm going to wait to see what he provides this evening when he's back from class.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 21:56 GMT
#355
that's all lovely, apart from being completely wrong

nice job there
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 22:00 GMT
#356
On September 19 2012 06:54 prplhz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 19 2012 05:38 Zephirdd wrote:
Huh. Missed page 15. K got an idea.

Palmar, blazinghand, hapahauli. Your opinions on prplhz?
Ange777, your opinion on marv?

Marv and prplhz, your opinion on mmtoss and austin?

These are important to make some sense here. You can ask stuff to me too.

I think that Mementoss is town. I skimmed a few of his previous games (they're all conveniently in his profile and that's pretty nifty I gotta say) and I think his play looks a lot more like his town play than his scum play.


where have you seen Mementoss play scum?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 22:00 GMT
#357
oh i see. scratch that.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 22:40 GMT
#366
On September 19 2012 07:40 Quatol wrote:
not really sure who i want to lynch right now

palmar best come back with something reaaaaaaally good

for now prplhz seems to have a genuine desire to lynch me, so that seems better

##Unvote


I'm never going to stop doing this, goddamnit
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 18 2012 23:02 GMT
#369
On September 19 2012 07:47 iamperfection wrote:
whats the point of having that smurf if everyone knows who it is just delete it i say.


I use it for hosting LVII, it's actually Palmar's account
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 00:54 GMT
#378
Who I am should have absolutely no bearing on the scumminess of prplhz's actions, surely?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 00:56 GMT
#379
especially given the quality of this game, where i'm only a middle of the pack scumhunter.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 01:15 GMT
#382
No. My scumplay > townplay, which is ok. I just get nightkilled a lot for some reason.

Please reconsider quickly because your reasoning on prplhz has been pretty weak as it is so far, especially given your previous prolonged absence.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 12:03 GMT
#431
Palmar's entire shitty case is this:

"marv is better than this, therefore he is scum".

I have the case open in a separate tab to see if I need to respond to specific points, but I can find very little worth responding to.

Yes, my tone changed, I got a bit heated. What of it? If you want to go down that road, it's something I'm far more likely to do as town. WIFOMy? Sure, but Palmar's entire case is WIFOMy. Anyone go find me a single example of me 'losing the plot' as scum - you won't be able to find an instance, I wager. Or NMM3 where I was actually scum and Palmar called me out and I just flat out ignored him.

On the other hand, as town I have been known to self-vote (Movie Mafia) or go into a 24-48 hour funk (Bureaucracy, when Foolish called me scum for no reason, and it knocked me sideways until I recovered and realised Foolish was scum).

"Did you think I wouldn't tell people what I thought about other people in the game? Should I just not call out my reads because they "mess with an already divided town"?"

Yeah except you gave very little reasoning for anything. You said austin is scum and provided one quote going "lol here's evidence" with no explanation of why the quote made him scum. You called Hiro scum with no reasoning, and ditto you laid a vote on me later with a one sentence explanation. That's pisspoor play, Palmar.

I will be filtering this afternoon to see who I particularly want to lynch. I don't care if you/people thought I was weird for liking Hiro's Palmar point; to me it was a perspective that I hadn't thought of at all and so it was interesting. Additionally Hiro's points on Hapa's contradictions were strong. Listening to contributions from a day 1 scumread who was mainly a scumread for not contributing is not scummy behaviour. I'm not sure if it's enough from austin to make me not want to lynch him, but at the moment I'm leaning towards austin. He's been very absent through critical discussions when I know he could have been active, and that's scummy play.

[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 12:05 GMT
#432
EBWOP: I'm not sure if it's enough from Hiro

[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 12:12 GMT
#433
On September 19 2012 20:28 Ange777 wrote:
prplhz

Show nested quote +
On September 18 2012 20:33 prplhz wrote:
Disclaimer: I don't read any analysis that refer to the "Zephirdd Rule" also known as the "Kenpachi Rule Extended" because I think it's bullshit.

Anyway, HapaHauli is playing active and townie and I have no interest in lynching him today. Ange777 is looking terrible though.

@Ange777 Have you been scum at any point and can you direct me to one of those games?

List of people who suck: Bluelightz, marvellosity.


Nice excuse for not reading the thread. Why wouldn't someone read the thread closely? Bullshit is not always just bullshit, it can have town motivation or scum motivation. Is it because you are scum and already know the alignments?



Show nested quote +
On September 19 2012 06:54 prplhz wrote:
I have some small reservations with the marvellosity lynch that I can tell you about later but for now he's my top candidate.


So when is it "later"? How do you want to convince us into lynching your allegedly top scum read when you yourself have reservations you are not willing to share with us?



I just read your case properly Ange, and I've left in the quote above the two points I think are particularly good. I'd like an answer from prplhz sooner rather than later.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 12:27 GMT
#435
Goody for you applying how you play scum to how I play.

Yes, it is pisspoor play when you're bringing reads without explanation. You saying it isn't doesn't make it not. Sorry Palmar.

And I'll defend myself how I see fit. Your case remains terrible.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 12:28 GMT
#437
EBWOP: and the meta was completely applicable, because it applied to how my posting style altered after you accused me. It's completely relevant.

Pisspoor, Palmar.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 12:36 GMT
#439
Who said I was confirmed town? Did I claim that? I pointed out previous patterns in my play.

Herp derp I know these patterns so I could alter those if I want, yes yes. But how I have previously behaved as BOTH scum and town is relevant.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 12:47 GMT
#443
No, no, me getting angry shouldn't make you believe I'm town.

But you used it as a reason I am scum in your case. So I pointed out the alternative explanation.

"or the other is to think I'm town and wrong, and in that case raging at me doesn't make much sense, should rather just go do something useful."

because town marv doesn't rage at people he thinks are bad or wrong. Oh wait, he does. A lot. If you'd like to know, at the moment I think you're probably town, because you're pursuing me more fervently than I think you would otherwise.

I am currently filtering but you're like a flame and I'm a moth.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 13:39 GMT
#445
Alright, I'm not sure how to construct this post, but here are my thoughts on some stuff in the game:

Firstly, in response to Mementoss re: what I said about Hiro (probably gonna duplicate this as my post goes on, but meh):

On September 19 2012 21:44 Mementoss wrote:
I feel like the main part of the marv case is based on this post:

Show nested quote +
On September 19 2012 01:35 marvellosity wrote:
On September 19 2012 01:33 prplhz wrote:
On September 19 2012 01:32 marvellosity wrote:
why do GK and Palmar look town to you, then?

Well, goodkarma looks town because he was putting effort into his posts and because he was pushing the right agendas and because he replaced out (sorry, but town replaces out 10 times more than scum). Palmar is looking interested in this game and that's good enough for me for now. You will agree with me that HiroPro's case is not exactly overly convincing.


No, it's not convincing, but I found his point about throwing a bunch of new candidates into an already divided town pretty decent. I disagree on GK for the reason I outlined earlier.


I can see marvs logic behind it, but I think he just worded it in a way that seems really scummy.


This is what I thought about it:

On September 19 2012 21:03 marvellosity wrote:
I don't care if you/people thought I was weird for liking Hiro's Palmar point; to me it was a perspective that I hadn't thought of at all and so it was interesting. Additionally Hiro's points on Hapa's contradictions were strong. Listening to contributions from a day 1 scumread who was mainly a scumread for not contributing is not scummy behaviour. I'm not sure if it's enough from austin[sic] to make me not want to lynch him, but at the moment I'm leaning towards austin. He's been very absent through critical discussions when I know he could have been active, and that's scummy play.






Leading on from this, I'm a little suspicious of Hapahauli. Partly because I know what he's capable of when I saw him dominate town as scum in one of his newbie games. There are two reasons:

Firstly, how he questioned me on listening to Hiro. I'm well aware that a lot of you disagreed with me finding Hiro's point on Palmar interesting, but I don't understand the thought train of not listening to a player just because you're voting for them, especially on Day 1.

On September 19 2012 02:25 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Marv

Regarding this:
Show nested quote +
On September 19 2012 01:35 marvellosity wrote:
On September 19 2012 01:33 prplhz wrote:
On September 19 2012 01:32 marvellosity wrote:
why do GK and Palmar look town to you, then?

Well, goodkarma looks town because he was putting effort into his posts and because he was pushing the right agendas and because he replaced out (sorry, but town replaces out 10 times more than scum). Palmar is looking interested in this game and that's good enough for me for now. You will agree with me that HiroPro's case is not exactly overly convincing.


No, it's not convincing, but I found his point about throwing a bunch of new candidates into an already divided town pretty decent. I disagree on GK for the reason I outlined earlier.


Why do you find Hiro's point compelling if you think he's mafia? You had your vote firmly on him at this point, and I don't understand why you'd be all of a sudden so willing to listen to, what appears to me as a weak observation about Palmar?



On September 19 2012 05:24 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 19 2012 04:39 marvellosity wrote:
Ange, dear, what do you make of Hapa's point in the first place?

Like, Hapa is a clever fellow. The line of reasoning he proposed - "you think he's scum therefore why would you consider what he has to say" seems really off to me. Not quite as off as prplhz agreeing with it mind, but off nonetheless.


How is it off? It can be scummy in a certain context, and your explanation makes sense enough.



It can be scummy in a certain context? What does that even mean? We only have one context here, and it's a Day 1 read for not contributing starting to contribute something I hadn't thought of. Don't know what context he was thinking of, or what answer he was possibly expecting from me.

Secondly, and with greater weight, were the contradictions on Mementoss + voting that Hiro pointed out. It's a disconnect in thinking about an issue that is often explained by the fact that scum have to manufacture opinions, and therefore they don't match up. The fact he backed down from it doesn't change the fact he made it in the first place. In Movie Mafia Day 2 (hi prplhz) Snarfs plunked his vote on me (QQ, a theme) with a contradiction of dismissing my town motivation as WIFOM, and using WIFOM to give the scum motivation. I called him scum for it, and he backed down from it (because how can you maintain a contradictory position?) but he was scum nevertheless.

There's not enough else in Hapa's filter to warrant me voting him or anything. A lot of what he's done seems constructive, so I'm not willing to go after him, but I'm uneasy.



mkfuba: Someone else I'm kinda suspicious of but I don't want to vote today. Mementoss, I know you think we're buddying, but agreeing on a potential read is just that we agree on a potential read.

The reason I'm suspicious of fuba is that he was absent for such a long time at the beginning of the day, so I was expecting to come back with something big and impressive in the evening, and he did not.

Ameliorating these concerns slightly is that mkfuba is holy-shit wishy washy at the best of times. Seriously, go read any of his games, he's a known wishywashy meister. So this isn't really a tell either way for me. I need more information and posting from fuba to get a proper read on him.

From what I know of him, he struggles to write posts as both alignments, but especially as scum finds it hard to find stuff to write about. So that's what I will be looking out for as the game goes on (presuming I survive this lynch :D)




HiroPro: Suspicious of him too. If his contributions on Palmar/Hapa weren't things I'd even considered myself, I'd probably want to lynch him right now. Whether people agree with it or not, I found his point on Palmar pretty good, especially as Palmar at the time came in swinging with scum/town reads with practically no explanation. The fact that he picked up on Hapa's contradiction also shows an attentiveness to the thread and analysis that indicates townie. The problem at the moment is that he has not subsequently taken a firm stance on anyone or anything beyond these observations. Leaning kinda scummy.




Zephirdd: I know he attracted a vote or two today, but I don't wanna lynch him. I thought his Hapa case was bad, and the fact he backed down from it even weaker. But his posts since then have had a collaboratory feel that I haven't felt from Zephirdd since we were town in NMM2 together. So leaning town.




austin: yeah, I think I most of all want to lynch austin. Some of it's gonna be a rehash, but it's important for the whole thing. The reason people jumped on austin in the first place:

On September 18 2012 06:55 austinmcc wrote:

Show nested quote +
On September 18 2012 06:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Hey pudding-munchers stop arguing about that and read my case

I don't know how anyone can munch on pudding.

I DO kind of like that observation. It feels almost TOO obvious but...man it's kind of damning.


Pretty much generally agreed that this was scummy, so won't delve too much. Where shit starts to diverge is on the response, which people read as townie. There's important time issues to look at. BlazingHand first pushes him to elaborate on it, and we get this as a response:

On September 18 2012 07:16 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2012 07:09 Blazinghand wrote:
On September 18 2012 06:55 austinmcc wrote:
On September 18 2012 06:50 Hapahauli wrote:
If mafia would like to keep hypothetical townie-marv alive to the endgame because of my "policy lynch," then awesome! Mission accomplished! Though in all seriousness, I've read through quite a few of his recent games. He never lives as town past N3 (barring Mad Men Mafia where he was a replacement) in his recent games. If he's alive a long time, there's a very high chance (IMO basically guaranteed chance) of him flipping red.
<3 everyone at all, but you need to look further. He's generally not being killed off for supersexy scumhunting, but because he comes off as very townie and is generating a lot of discussion/activity from others. His early reads, although I haven't read recent games, are not generally a big threat to mafia.


On September 18 2012 06:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Hey pudding-munchers stop arguing about that and read my case

I don't know how anyone can munch on pudding.

I DO kind of like that observation. It feels almost TOO obvious but...man it's kind of damning.


Elaborate. Now.


Elaboration on the second half - Pudding is soft. Munching feels like it requires chewing, crunching. Can't do that with pudding. As to the obvious bit, obvious is the wrong word. I like...neat observations like that. It says something, unsure what, about you that you could pull out the starts to prplhz's game just like POOF. Like, I key in on the initial question more than the actual scummy stuff, because there's a chance that prplhz doesn't realize he's started scum games like that. But ... he has to, right? I gotta leave work, but the thought process is convoluted here.


Pudding blabla not satisfactory at all. His 'townie' explanation that follows only comes after me, Hapa, and BH apply further considerable pressure.

On September 18 2012 08:03 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2012 07:21 Blazinghand wrote:
The "it's way too scummy, he must be town" argument is dumb on its head. What are you even saying
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2012 07:23 marvellosity wrote:
austin, you're not playing with grush.

speak plainly or die like a little bitch.
It's not that it's too scummy to be town. Because the part of your post that I key in on is that prplhz, in two other scum games, and in none of the games he's played as town (out of what you reference), opens in a similar manner.

I think you are stretching when you say that the questions are scummy. Yes he can go look the guy up. Yes, he might ought to at least remember that the guy played in a game he hosted. But it's not like...asking a question about who someone is is scummy on its face. There's no scumhunting heuristic for "opens games asking questions about a particular player." It MAY be scummy as applied to prplhz, but it's not like every player who opens like that is probably scum.

So then . . . working off that. If it's not scummy on its face, but might be scummy to prplhz, why? There's no objective pushed there, it's not like starting off a game with that post helps a mafia objective. If prplhz is scum and happens to start all his scum games this way, it's just something he does without knowing it. There's no objective pushed.

Then finally, if starting games that way as scum is just something prplhz does without knowing it, not to push an objective, then . . . it's almost null? Not getting there in the same way "small sample size" gets there. The train of thought is...

(1) This is a thing that prplhz has done in scum games
(2) This is a thing that does not further mafia objectives, or actively DO anything really
(3) Therefore, it's likely he's just doing it subconsciously
(4) If he's doing it subconsciously, then it's not really a tell.

Could argue that he only does it subconsciously as scum, but then you get the sample size discussion and there's no real proof either way.

So obvious was really the wrong word choice, when I fully go through this.



It's not a bad explanation as it goes, and I can see why people viewed it as townie. But the fact is that it only came after his previous, poor explanation. In other words, he had to give a good explanation because he knew a large part of town was hounding him for it. In this context, I believe it loses some of its 'townieness'. I bold the final line as well for a reason. Obvious was the wrong word choice, eh? Look at how austin usually posts - longwinded, carefully thought out. Yet in this instance he'd thrown out his 'obvious' and 'too damning'. It looks like austin is justifying his scummy words after the fact.

austin has a few posts subsequently, but they are all focused on his own defence rather than any other scumhunting. Why is he so worried about how others view his defence? Why is he only talking about his own defence rather than being proactive elsewhere? Because he's worried that he needs to appear as town.

After these posts, austin has been markedly absent from any of the considerable goings-on in this thread. We don't have an opinion on anyone or anything, except his own defence. His play is marked by being worried by how he appears, rather than finding scum.

##Vote: austinmcc



The only other candidate I'm interested in is prplhz. Ange makes some very good points, especially the two I pointed out a little earlier:

On September 19 2012 21:12 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 19 2012 20:28 Ange777 wrote:
prplhz

On September 18 2012 20:33 prplhz wrote:
Disclaimer: I don't read any analysis that refer to the "Zephirdd Rule" also known as the "Kenpachi Rule Extended" because I think it's bullshit.

Anyway, HapaHauli is playing active and townie and I have no interest in lynching him today. Ange777 is looking terrible though.

@Ange777 Have you been scum at any point and can you direct me to one of those games?

List of people who suck: Bluelightz, marvellosity.


Nice excuse for not reading the thread. Why wouldn't someone read the thread closely? Bullshit is not always just bullshit, it can have town motivation or scum motivation. Is it because you are scum and already know the alignments?



On September 19 2012 06:54 prplhz wrote:
I have some small reservations with the marvellosity lynch that I can tell you about later but for now he's my top candidate.


So when is it "later"? How do you want to convince us into lynching your allegedly top scum read when you yourself have reservations you are not willing to share with us?



I just read your case properly Ange, and I've left in the quote above the two points I think are particularly good. I'd like an answer from prplhz sooner rather than later.


Unless these are answered satisfactorily, I am open to a prplhz lynch too.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 13:50 GMT
#448
On September 19 2012 22:41 austinmcc wrote:
I have been absent. I am getting this vote into thread because the deadline is coming. I like it better than the other options that MIGHT be legitimate at this point, which seem to be ... just marv?

##Vote: prplhz


I think I'd much rather lynch bluelightz, unless there's been any action on that front, but I don't believe that's going to happen.


This apathy only serves to firm my read on austin.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 14:47 GMT
#452
Interesting, two of you looking at Mementoss. I'd not looked into his filter as he seemed to have come across reasonably townie all game, so I'll have a look now.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 14:53 GMT
#454
probably because i'm not scum, at a guess
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 14:58 GMT
#456
very good dear.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 15:18 GMT
#461
On September 20 2012 00:15 Palmar wrote:
Get off my Hapa bro's case.

Wtf is this shit, prplhz is not scum look at his big post after he started caring.


why does that make him town?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 15:36 GMT
#464
austin:

On September 20 2012 00:02 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2012 07:01 Mementoss wrote:
On September 18 2012 06:55 austinmcc wrote:
On September 18 2012 06:50 Hapahauli wrote:
If mafia would like to keep hypothetical townie-marv alive to the endgame because of my "policy lynch," then awesome! Mission accomplished! Though in all seriousness, I've read through quite a few of his recent games. He never lives as town past N3 (barring Mad Men Mafia where he was a replacement) in his recent games. If he's alive a long time, there's a very high chance (IMO basically guaranteed chance) of him flipping red.
<3 everyone at all, but you need to look further. He's generally not being killed off for supersexy scumhunting, but because he comes off as very townie and is generating a lot of discussion/activity from others. His early reads, although I haven't read recent games, are not generally a big threat to mafia.


On September 18 2012 06:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Hey pudding-munchers stop arguing about that and read my case

I don't know how anyone can munch on pudding.

I DO kind of like that observation. It feels almost TOO obvious but...man it's kind of damning.


TOO obvious, as in more obvious than Mattchew in LVII?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826&currentpage=14#261

Nothing, can be TOO obvious. Thats like saying you don't think someone is scum, because there TOO scummy. Stop waffling, either you think its scummy or you think its not. Don't say things like "kind of like" and "TOO obvious but damning", your all over the place bro.

Look at all the reactions to this post I made. Palmar thinks I'm scum just from the too obvious comment. Marv found it scummy. Hapa found it scummy. I think another one or two people did as well. But Mementoss's reaction to my comment felt different.


I don't read much into this. It's the kinda post I can see being made as either alignment.

On September 20 2012 00:02 austinmcc wrote:

He mentions me later, after Bluelightz questions him a little:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2012 23:14 Mementoss wrote:
On September 18 2012 22:57 Bluelightz wrote:
On September 18 2012 22:40 Mementoss wrote:
@Bluelightz case
I understand you just went through all my filter, and basically resaid the things I posted. I don't see how it makes me scum, and adding SCUM! at the end doesn't make it make me scummy lol. In the future when making a case, you should outline how the quotes make the person scum and not re-iterate what the post says.

Can't say much more now since I'm at work.


Why do you have to point fingers on everyone and your now pushing Hapa but voting prplhz?


If you want to know my best scum read, check who I'm voting, that will be it.

I'm not pushing Hapa, I'm asking him to explain his reasoning more. Don't purposely misinterpret me, don't you see how far that got Zephridd with his case on Hapa?

I'm allowed to pressure other players while voting another player. There is more than 1 scum in this game ya know. I would say the only other person I remotely pressured so far would be austinmcc's scummy indecisiveness.

I guess...I didn't feel pressured by his post. He doesn't call me scum. He doesn't call my scummy. He doesn't REALLY say anything about me above. This isn't a super-strong point, as indecisiveness usually ~ scumminess, but my problem with his initial reaction was that it wasn't strong, didn't call me out, didn't end in a vote, nothing. So I find his characterization of that post as being the only pressure he's put on a person other than prplhz this game to be off. It's not outright, flashing lights, scummy. But when it's a response to pressure and you're sort of...almost misrepresenting an earlier post, misrepresenting your play, it comes off scummy. It comes off like you don't have a good handle on the actions you've taken and are slightly scrambling to explain yourself to pressure.


The thing is, I think you're actually misrepresenting Mementoss somewhat here. He said "the only other person I remotely pressured" - the way this is phrased clearly indicates to me that he wasn't calling it significant pressure. "I remotely pressured" - as in, I kinda pressured a bit. But you're saying that he's misrepresenting it as proper pressure, when I don't think that's actually the case.



Some of the other parts of your case are stronger, though. The bits with the questioning on me/fuba without coming to an explanation. I think you also have a valid point that he voted prplhz early, but never updated his read on him despite all prplhz's other posting.

Why has it taken you so long to come into the thread and contribute something, austin?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 15:40 GMT
#466
EBWOP: towards the end, "without coming to a conclusion."
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 15:53 GMT
#469
On September 20 2012 00:49 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2012 00:38 Blazinghand wrote:
Cause he doesn't care about the game. Tbh I was hoping he'd be mod killed so we wouldn't have to deal with him.

So cruel. But so true for most of my D1 performance.


What gets me though is that there has been so much to talk about in between where you went silent and this case. It bugs me tremendously that you say there was "nothing that caught your eye" or in other words nothing that made you want to get involved. It shows spectacular apathy even for your 'traditional' Day 1s.

Gonna have to cogitate on it :/
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 16:08 GMT
#471
Hapa, could you give me your current read on austin, please?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 16:09 GMT
#472
also while I'm at it, Palmar, what do you make of Mementoss?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 16:33 GMT
#481
On September 19 2012 21:44 Mementoss wrote:

Also more to note, this "divided town" thing how is it bad? It seems to me that we caught scum very early in the day 1, and scum is scrambling to put cases on everyone else to get the attention away from prplhz, the votes haven't been coming easy on prplhz despite him being the main discussion of day 1. Hell, he hasn't even reached majority yet this game. He's also had his share of people call him or his posting townie, yet prplhz hasn't really came back to scumhunt.



Probably referring to this, Hapa.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 17:58 GMT
#494
On September 20 2012 02:56 mkfuba07 wrote:
EBWOP: "He mentions them elsewhere, but doesn't explain them until after he's posted the list." I feel like at that point it's not even a summary, it's just a list of people who don't have to worry about being pressured by prplhz.


Sorry for posting so much right now. I believe I have class during the deadline, and while I will have access to a computer for the later half of it, I can't guarantee that I'll have time to keep posting then.


As your vote is currently on austinmcc, care to comment on his case and what you make of his recent activity?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 18:05 GMT
#499
On September 20 2012 03:04 Blazinghand wrote:
It's amazing how prplhz only puts effort into this game when tons of people pressure him


Could you be a little more constructive rather than your two offhand remarks about austin and prplhz you've done so far today?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 18:11 GMT
#508
So, prplhz, what are these potential reservations you had with my lynch?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 18:12 GMT
#510
Blazing, could you throw me a read on austin + mementoss?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 18:42 GMT
#523
That's a pretty big pile of bullshit right there, BH.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 18:56 GMT
#533
austin:

My reads have fluctuated somewhat from earlier today. I agree with Hiro on the tone of your posts; I had found something off about your demeanour (I had thought it was that you were trying too hard to create yourself a story) and what he says rings true.

My opinion on fuba has edged more towards scum. I find it bizarre that he's willing to vote you, but then pursues posts and content regarding prplhz, while completely disregarding any of the posts that you have made in the interim. If you were his main scumread (especially as most of his case seemed to be your inactivtiy) I would think that he should be interacting with your contributions since. I'd like others' opinion on this.

To BlazingHand: the reason it was a pile of shit is that far more people have expressed the opinion that I'm town or a bad lynch than they have with austin. Corralling people into voting on specific candidates like that is bad play.

To HiroPro: austinmcc did say that in Bureaucracy to be fair to him, or at the very least he said it to me with regards to his play in Bureaucracy. He's not lying about that. You're not going to get a lynch through on Hapahauli at this stage I think, so vote austin with me.

Palmar's absence is fucking pathetic.

prplhz has annoyingly come in to defend himself and then provided nothing else. I'm finding that pretty scummy because it hasn't moved conversation forward. On the flip side, I found Hiro's arguments about how prplhz behaves as town (sheeping strong players) as quite convincing; further I think prplhz's frustration is genuine; I also see (ironically) prplhz's failure to understand that listing townreads with explanation is bad as somewhat townie.

I don't really wanna lynch Mementoss right now. You had some good points but I think his defence is genuine; in addition to this I feel that he's been playing a little lazily, which I can empathise with. In both PTP and LVII too he seemed quite scummy because of a lack of effort at points.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 18:58 GMT
#535
EBWOP: listing townreads WITHOUT explanation (in prplhz section)
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 19:01 GMT
#539
that's wifomy as shit and meaningless
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 19:26 GMT
#558
On September 20 2012 04:21 Palmar wrote:
I don't even understand this game anymore.

Here's the deal. prplhz isn't scum. There was a legit concern earlier that he might be but anyone that still thinks he's scum has their heads faaar up their asses.

mementoss is probably not scum.

marv and austinmcc both have a good chance of being scum, but I feel considerably better about marv. It's also very strange how hard it is to get any kind of a train rolling against marv. I've already explained why this guy is the one that needs to hang today.

Can we consolidate there, please?


well done for saying absolutely nothing.

Stellar play right here.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 19:29 GMT
#564
On September 20 2012 04:26 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2012 04:21 Palmar wrote:
I don't even understand this game anymore.

Here's the deal. prplhz isn't scum. There was a legit concern earlier that he might be but anyone that still thinks he's scum has their heads faaar up their asses.

mementoss is probably not scum.

marv and austinmcc both have a good chance of being scum, but I feel considerably better about marv. It's also very strange how hard it is to get any kind of a train rolling against marv. I've already explained why this guy is the one that needs to hang today.

Can we consolidate there, please?


well done for saying absolutely nothing.

Stellar play right here.


For you, then Palmar:

1) still no explanation on why prplhz is town. "look he made a long post" is not an explanation
2) saying mementoss is probably not scum without giving any thoughts as to why either way is also completely useless
3) it's hard to get a train rolling because you're wrong and your case was bad, as pointed out by various people

happy?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 19:38 GMT
#567
sounds like some epic phone posting gone wrong
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 19:44 GMT
#570
no, I never retracted any of it. Read my or Hiro's filter for the most pertinent thoughts on austin.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 19:44 GMT
#571
On September 20 2012 04:43 Palmar wrote:
Fuck it. I'm off for a bit.

I'll rather no-lynch than do a dumb lynch so see you guys later.


nice moves there
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 20:30 GMT
#597
On September 20 2012 05:15 Ange777 wrote:
Okay, so I am trying to understand this case against austin.

Show nested quote +
On September 19 2012 22:39 marvellosity wrote:
austin: yeah, I think I most of all want to lynch austin. Some of it's gonna be a rehash, but it's important for the whole thing. The reason people jumped on austin in the first place:

On September 18 2012 06:55 austinmcc wrote:

On September 18 2012 06:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Hey pudding-munchers stop arguing about that and read my case

I don't know how anyone can munch on pudding.

I DO kind of like that observation. It feels almost TOO obvious but...man it's kind of damning.


Pretty much generally agreed that this was scummy, so won't delve too much. Where shit starts to diverge is on the response, which people read as townie. There's important time issues to look at. BlazingHand first pushes him to elaborate on it, and we get this as a response:

On September 18 2012 07:16 austinmcc wrote:
On September 18 2012 07:09 Blazinghand wrote:
On September 18 2012 06:55 austinmcc wrote:
On September 18 2012 06:50 Hapahauli wrote:
If mafia would like to keep hypothetical townie-marv alive to the endgame because of my "policy lynch," then awesome! Mission accomplished! Though in all seriousness, I've read through quite a few of his recent games. He never lives as town past N3 (barring Mad Men Mafia where he was a replacement) in his recent games. If he's alive a long time, there's a very high chance (IMO basically guaranteed chance) of him flipping red.
<3 everyone at all, but you need to look further. He's generally not being killed off for supersexy scumhunting, but because he comes off as very townie and is generating a lot of discussion/activity from others. His early reads, although I haven't read recent games, are not generally a big threat to mafia.


On September 18 2012 06:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Hey pudding-munchers stop arguing about that and read my case

I don't know how anyone can munch on pudding.

I DO kind of like that observation. It feels almost TOO obvious but...man it's kind of damning.


Elaborate. Now.


Elaboration on the second half - Pudding is soft. Munching feels like it requires chewing, crunching. Can't do that with pudding. As to the obvious bit, obvious is the wrong word. I like...neat observations like that. It says something, unsure what, about you that you could pull out the starts to prplhz's game just like POOF. Like, I key in on the initial question more than the actual scummy stuff, because there's a chance that prplhz doesn't realize he's started scum games like that. But ... he has to, right? I gotta leave work, but the thought process is convoluted here.


Pudding blabla not satisfactory at all. His 'townie' explanation that follows only comes after me, Hapa, and BH apply further considerable pressure.

On September 18 2012 08:03 austinmcc wrote:
On September 18 2012 07:21 Blazinghand wrote:
The "it's way too scummy, he must be town" argument is dumb on its head. What are you even saying
On September 18 2012 07:23 marvellosity wrote:
austin, you're not playing with grush.

speak plainly or die like a little bitch.
It's not that it's too scummy to be town. Because the part of your post that I key in on is that prplhz, in two other scum games, and in none of the games he's played as town (out of what you reference), opens in a similar manner.

I think you are stretching when you say that the questions are scummy. Yes he can go look the guy up. Yes, he might ought to at least remember that the guy played in a game he hosted. But it's not like...asking a question about who someone is is scummy on its face. There's no scumhunting heuristic for "opens games asking questions about a particular player." It MAY be scummy as applied to prplhz, but it's not like every player who opens like that is probably scum.

So then . . . working off that. If it's not scummy on its face, but might be scummy to prplhz, why? There's no objective pushed there, it's not like starting off a game with that post helps a mafia objective. If prplhz is scum and happens to start all his scum games this way, it's just something he does without knowing it. There's no objective pushed.

Then finally, if starting games that way as scum is just something prplhz does without knowing it, not to push an objective, then . . . it's almost null? Not getting there in the same way "small sample size" gets there. The train of thought is...

(1) This is a thing that prplhz has done in scum games
(2) This is a thing that does not further mafia objectives, or actively DO anything really
(3) Therefore, it's likely he's just doing it subconsciously
(4) If he's doing it subconsciously, then it's not really a tell.

Could argue that he only does it subconsciously as scum, but then you get the sample size discussion and there's no real proof either way.

So obvious was really the wrong word choice, when I fully go through this.



It's not a bad explanation as it goes, and I can see why people viewed it as townie. But the fact is that it only came after his previous, poor explanation. In other words, he had to give a good explanation because he knew a large part of town was hounding him for it. In this context, I believe it loses some of its 'townieness'. I bold the final line as well for a reason. Obvious was the wrong word choice, eh? Look at how austin usually posts - longwinded, carefully thought out. Yet in this instance he'd thrown out his 'obvious' and 'too damning'. It looks like austin is justifying his scummy words after the fact.

austin has a few posts subsequently, but they are all focused on his own defence rather than any other scumhunting. Why is he so worried about how others view his defence? Why is he only talking about his own defence rather than being proactive elsewhere? Because he's worried that he needs to appear as town.

After these posts, austin has been markedly absent from any of the considerable goings-on in this thread. We don't have an opinion on anyone or anything, except his own defence. His play is marked by being worried by how he appears, rather than finding scum.

##Vote: austinmcc


Why does him posting a very poor first explanation before delivering a satisfying reasoning for his behaviour makes him lose "townieness"? Shouldn't the fact that he made such a bad explanation make him more townie as apparentely he was not worried about defending himself when he first made that post?

Seeing his recent vastly improved posting (especially his defense and scum-hunting whilst under pressure) I don't think austin is scum.


You'll have to explain to me why giving a weak explanation on a weak comment makes him townie, Ange. My train of thought was that he was waffling in his defence to the post, hoping to brush it under the carpet, instead of straight out explaining why he made the vote in the first place. The fact that he needed to be further pressured to clarify his comment makes him lose townieness, because by this point he is forced to make a good explanation or face being lynched.

That said, austin's concerns on my company on him are legitimate. iamperfection is giving absolutely no reasoning, and he completely correct that I asked fuba for thoughts on austin, WHO HE IS FUCKNIG VOTING, and he gave me thoughts on Mementoss instead. Arg.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 20:31 GMT
#600
Do you have nothing to say about my play since you committed to your vote on me, prplhz?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 20:33 GMT
#601
I would lynch fuba right now if we could get all the votes for it.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 20:34 GMT
#603
you best answer me prplhz, because I want you to be accountable for this read on me.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 20:36 GMT
#607
seriously, can't we lynch fuba? :/
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 20:37 GMT
#608
On September 20 2012 05:36 Zephirdd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2012 05:36 prplhz wrote:
On September 20 2012 05:31 marvellosity wrote:
Do you have nothing to say about my play since you committed to your vote on me, prplhz?

no and it doesn't matter right now so i don't care about it


JESUS CHRIST


yeah, i know right.

IT DOES MATTER BECAUSE YOU ARE ONE OF THE MAIN CANDIDATES
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 20:38 GMT
#612
##Unvote
##Vote prplhz


best get talking, prplhz.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 20:40 GMT
#614
On September 20 2012 05:39 Mementoss wrote:
are we seriously going to let a no lynch happen


thanks for this, very helpful
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 20:41 GMT
#616
On September 20 2012 05:40 Ange777 wrote:
@iamperfectino:

Show nested quote +
On September 20 2012 05:23 iamperfection wrote:
On September 20 2012 05:16 austinmcc wrote:
On September 20 2012 05:14 iamperfection wrote:
Raise your hand if you are here

Explain your vote if you are here

On September 20 2012 04:51 Ange777 wrote:
On September 20 2012 04:47 iamperfection wrote:
On September 20 2012 04:38 marvellosity wrote:
sounds like some epic phone posting gone wrong

You know me to well. I meant to say it is reasonable for me to follow my town reads because they are usually right


So you are not voting austin because you think he is scummy but because you hope that your town reads found scum?


I did you didn't like the explanation. And I'm starting to not like my explanation


What's this?

@marv:

Show nested quote +
On September 20 2012 05:30 marvellosity wrote:
On September 20 2012 05:15 Ange777 wrote:
Okay, so I am trying to understand this case against austin.

On September 19 2012 22:39 marvellosity wrote:
austin: yeah, I think I most of all want to lynch austin. Some of it's gonna be a rehash, but it's important for the whole thing. The reason people jumped on austin in the first place:

On September 18 2012 06:55 austinmcc wrote:

On September 18 2012 06:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Hey pudding-munchers stop arguing about that and read my case

I don't know how anyone can munch on pudding.

I DO kind of like that observation. It feels almost TOO obvious but...man it's kind of damning.


Pretty much generally agreed that this was scummy, so won't delve too much. Where shit starts to diverge is on the response, which people read as townie. There's important time issues to look at. BlazingHand first pushes him to elaborate on it, and we get this as a response:

On September 18 2012 07:16 austinmcc wrote:
On September 18 2012 07:09 Blazinghand wrote:
On September 18 2012 06:55 austinmcc wrote:
On September 18 2012 06:50 Hapahauli wrote:
If mafia would like to keep hypothetical townie-marv alive to the endgame because of my "policy lynch," then awesome! Mission accomplished! Though in all seriousness, I've read through quite a few of his recent games. He never lives as town past N3 (barring Mad Men Mafia where he was a replacement) in his recent games. If he's alive a long time, there's a very high chance (IMO basically guaranteed chance) of him flipping red.
<3 everyone at all, but you need to look further. He's generally not being killed off for supersexy scumhunting, but because he comes off as very townie and is generating a lot of discussion/activity from others. His early reads, although I haven't read recent games, are not generally a big threat to mafia.


On September 18 2012 06:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Hey pudding-munchers stop arguing about that and read my case

I don't know how anyone can munch on pudding.

I DO kind of like that observation. It feels almost TOO obvious but...man it's kind of damning.


Elaborate. Now.


Elaboration on the second half - Pudding is soft. Munching feels like it requires chewing, crunching. Can't do that with pudding. As to the obvious bit, obvious is the wrong word. I like...neat observations like that. It says something, unsure what, about you that you could pull out the starts to prplhz's game just like POOF. Like, I key in on the initial question more than the actual scummy stuff, because there's a chance that prplhz doesn't realize he's started scum games like that. But ... he has to, right? I gotta leave work, but the thought process is convoluted here.


Pudding blabla not satisfactory at all. His 'townie' explanation that follows only comes after me, Hapa, and BH apply further considerable pressure.

On September 18 2012 08:03 austinmcc wrote:
On September 18 2012 07:21 Blazinghand wrote:
The "it's way too scummy, he must be town" argument is dumb on its head. What are you even saying
On September 18 2012 07:23 marvellosity wrote:
austin, you're not playing with grush.

speak plainly or die like a little bitch.
It's not that it's too scummy to be town. Because the part of your post that I key in on is that prplhz, in two other scum games, and in none of the games he's played as town (out of what you reference), opens in a similar manner.

I think you are stretching when you say that the questions are scummy. Yes he can go look the guy up. Yes, he might ought to at least remember that the guy played in a game he hosted. But it's not like...asking a question about who someone is is scummy on its face. There's no scumhunting heuristic for "opens games asking questions about a particular player." It MAY be scummy as applied to prplhz, but it's not like every player who opens like that is probably scum.

So then . . . working off that. If it's not scummy on its face, but might be scummy to prplhz, why? There's no objective pushed there, it's not like starting off a game with that post helps a mafia objective. If prplhz is scum and happens to start all his scum games this way, it's just something he does without knowing it. There's no objective pushed.

Then finally, if starting games that way as scum is just something prplhz does without knowing it, not to push an objective, then . . . it's almost null? Not getting there in the same way "small sample size" gets there. The train of thought is...

(1) This is a thing that prplhz has done in scum games
(2) This is a thing that does not further mafia objectives, or actively DO anything really
(3) Therefore, it's likely he's just doing it subconsciously
(4) If he's doing it subconsciously, then it's not really a tell.

Could argue that he only does it subconsciously as scum, but then you get the sample size discussion and there's no real proof either way.

So obvious was really the wrong word choice, when I fully go through this.



It's not a bad explanation as it goes, and I can see why people viewed it as townie. But the fact is that it only came after his previous, poor explanation. In other words, he had to give a good explanation because he knew a large part of town was hounding him for it. In this context, I believe it loses some of its 'townieness'. I bold the final line as well for a reason. Obvious was the wrong word choice, eh? Look at how austin usually posts - longwinded, carefully thought out. Yet in this instance he'd thrown out his 'obvious' and 'too damning'. It looks like austin is justifying his scummy words after the fact.

austin has a few posts subsequently, but they are all focused on his own defence rather than any other scumhunting. Why is he so worried about how others view his defence? Why is he only talking about his own defence rather than being proactive elsewhere? Because he's worried that he needs to appear as town.

After these posts, austin has been markedly absent from any of the considerable goings-on in this thread. We don't have an opinion on anyone or anything, except his own defence. His play is marked by being worried by how he appears, rather than finding scum.

##Vote: austinmcc


Why does him posting a very poor first explanation before delivering a satisfying reasoning for his behaviour makes him lose "townieness"? Shouldn't the fact that he made such a bad explanation make him more townie as apparentely he was not worried about defending himself when he first made that post?

Seeing his recent vastly improved posting (especially his defense and scum-hunting whilst under pressure) I don't think austin is scum.


You'll have to explain to me why giving a weak explanation on a weak comment makes him townie, Ange. My train of thought was that he was waffling in his defence to the post, hoping to brush it under the carpet, instead of straight out explaining why he made the vote in the first place. The fact that he needed to be further pressured to clarify his comment makes him lose townieness, because by this point he is forced to make a good explanation or face being lynched.

That said, austin's concerns on my company on him are legitimate. iamperfection is giving absolutely no reasoning, and he completely correct that I asked fuba for thoughts on austin, WHO HE IS FUCKNIG VOTING, and he gave me thoughts on Mementoss instead. Arg.


My point is that giving a weak explanation fits a town player who should not be scared of being accused as scum. Being town there is no need to write your posts carefully which could lead to a weak first explanation before a satisfying second one. I see your point of view but I don't agree with it.


I can understand how it can be viewed both ways. But given the context of his whole play at the time, the only thing he'd done is post about 10 times on defending himself, and not at all at hunting scum.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 20:41 GMT
#620
On September 20 2012 05:41 prplhz wrote:
@hapa you best get in here and change your vote

brb 17 mins


lol yeah, this guy can die.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 20:43 GMT
#623
The mind boggles that one of the two leading candidates can say his view on his only read doesn't matter.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 20:51 GMT
#634
On September 20 2012 05:46 Mementoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2012 05:40 marvellosity wrote:
On September 20 2012 05:39 Mementoss wrote:
are we seriously going to let a no lynch happen


thanks for this, very helpful


cool I'd like to point out 3/6 pages of your unhelpful filter right now but I won't

also this lol

+ Show Spoiler +
On September 17 2012 20:58 marvellosity wrote:
Before this starts - gonna try to be somewhat less posty and more thinky this game. Let's see if I succeed.


you failed.


At least we have the 7 votes now for the first time since the start of the game. The resistance on this lynch has been incredible all cycle.


it is overmatched by the rest of my filter with helpful input, unlike yours.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 20:53 GMT
#636
On September 20 2012 05:48 Hapahauli wrote:
Why the fuck are we lynching prplhz?


because he refuses to be held accountable for his read on me by answering anything to do with my play since he committed his vote on me.

This in addition to his weak swap to vote on austin.

All we're left with on prplhz is a non-case on Ange and his refusal to elaborate on his only scumread.

That's why
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 20:55 GMT
#640
ahahahahahaa
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 20:55 GMT
#646
hapa explain yourself fucking right now.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 20:55 GMT
#649
hapa are you fakeclaiming to save a townread?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 20:56 GMT
#652
then post it
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 20:56 GMT
#657
prplhz, what's going on
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 20:57 GMT
#660
On September 20 2012 05:56 prplhz wrote:
people not unvoting just confirms how you're all morons


no it doesn't because there's two conflicting claims.

what do you make of hapa's mason claim on you? quick
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 21:02 GMT
#690
On September 20 2012 06:01 prplhz wrote:
too late anyway hapa my mason buddy sorry for being a total moron but jesus christ so were you


i can't believe you just did this. wow
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 21:04 GMT
#701
On September 20 2012 06:03 Mementoss wrote:
vote for worst claim in history both timing and context.


seconded
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 21:05 GMT
#705
On September 20 2012 06:05 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2012 06:04 Ange777 wrote:
Claiming mason is so easy and you really waited till the last few minutes to do it?


I was out until 20 minutes ago. I though people wouldn't be this fucking stupid and voting Prplhz when meta evidence was the polar opposite.


ingame play trumps meta
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 21:13 GMT
#718
On September 20 2012 06:11 prplhz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2012 06:06 Blazinghand wrote:
You know what, I take it back. Fuck prplhz and his shitty play and your guys shitty claims. I am sorry he was lynched, but I'm not sorry for how it happened. This was completely avoidable, Hapa, prplhz. I don't know what else to say.

shitting on dead people classic blazinghand


it's literally all your fault, so yeah, whatever man.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 21:27 GMT
#722
On September 20 2012 06:25 Hapahauli wrote:
Mkfuba anyone? Anyone?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250&currentpage=36#715


I've pretty blatantly shown my interest in lynching fuba.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 22:24 GMT
#732
On September 20 2012 07:20 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh geezus goddamn christ I misread your post.

"liking austin more right now" = thinking austin is more townie as opposed to thinking austin is more scummy.

Anywho, surprised marv sheeped me on that one.


yeah, you were sheeping me, darling
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 22:43 GMT
#735
On September 20 2012 07:30 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2012 07:22 austinmcc wrote:
On September 20 2012 07:20 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh geezus goddamn christ I misread your post.

"liking austin more right now" = thinking austin is more townie as opposed to thinking austin is more scummy.

Anywho, surprised marv sheeped me on that one.

Marv was discussing lynching fuba before you brought up that post.


No no no, I mean I thought marv would have corrected me on that or something. He's usually very big on attacking bad logic.


i thought you'd picked up something weird with the wording or whatever. I do think fuba is scum, though.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 22:54 GMT
#737
yeah, i don't agree.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 23:16 GMT
#741
On September 20 2012 08:07 Mementoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2012 07:54 marvellosity wrote:
yeah, i don't agree.


Since we both have a scum read on MKfuba who would your 2nd best scum read be atm.


um, no idea right now. BL as per usual is some floating weird entity, and as much as Palmar is playing atrociously, he did a similar ragequit type shit in NMM3. As with prplhz I find it extremely odd he's not willing to address any of my opinions or play today (calendar). Maybe I'll have to relook at Zephirdd?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 19 2012 23:24 GMT
#742
my problem with Palmar, actually, is that although his play has been similar in respects to NMM3, in others it has not.

Like, he's pursued me and ragequit and been an arse in a general townie way, but look at this:

On August 23 2012 19:05 Palmar wrote:
Okay, I have a lot of things to catch up on.

I have a theory that GM trolled me this game, and everyone rolled scum, that's how you guys seem to be playing anyway.

VisceraEyes is the key to this game. Early on I suspected him heavily of being scum, but his constant flip-flopping and random attacks, along with a surprisingly well thought out accusation of Lvdr made me rethink my stance on him, and at the moment I'm going to risk counting him among town. So now that I've put VisceraEyes in the town category, it's time to start thinking about how people connect to him, and have reacted to his presence.

I'd like to congratulate the scumteam though, there's not a single one of you completely obvious by now, which is strange.

Lvdr:

Lvdr does have a few weird things in his filter indeed:

Show nested quote +
On August 22 2012 11:46 Lvdr wrote:
@Palmar You've gone all silent on me. I have questions.

Do you think there is no reason to be looking at the players at the moment?

If the day was ending today, who would you vote, and why?


Recycling my questions is hardly relevant, especially since he was the one claiming the game was in "downtime". Which to any sane townie should mean that the heat needed to be turned on, instead of just accepting shitty play. This doesn't make him scum though, he might just have no idea how the game works.

Asking for an explanation of the random lynch strategy is dumb, but I've seen enough dumb people do it to not try to link it to him being scum.

I also hate the constant ##FOS bullshit, it's pointless, no one gives a fuck about what you suspect if you have nothing to act on it.

Lvdr has multiple things that make me think he might be scum. And the point VisceraEyes made about him assuming VE is town, is actually quite valid. The problem is that once again there's a chance Lvdr might just be a townie who assumes VE is town.


talismaniac:

Very little content. He's been completely non-commital throughout the game. There exists a connection between him and Lvdr, in the form of talismaniac sheeping VE immediately based on the "scumslip" that happened. This doesn't necessarily mean they cannot both be scum (lvdr and talis), but it makes it less likely.

talis also has an extremely large percentage of his posts focused somehow on VE, I'm not sure what to make of it.

If we do default to a lurker lynch, I think talis should be the one hanging, he's basically done nothing through the game.

Obvious:

This is the problem when play with new people, I have no idea how bad obvious is at mafia.

List of obvious's achievements this game:

1. talk like yoda for a bit
2. talk about policy lynches
3. post an analysis on kville, basically rehashing what had already been said
4. try to lynch me on dumb policy anyway.

Here's the problem. Obvious's play is completely fucking terrible. the question remains, is he scum because of it? He's basically throwing away any intention of actually trying to scumhunt by wanting to lynch me based on the fact that I want to randomly lynch a guy on day 1.

Now everyone knows by now that the random lynch has nothing to do with alignment, it's been suggested by townies and scum throughout tl mafia games, and the effort involved is simply typing "hey let's random lynch, ok guys?". It's a complete and utter null tell about someone's alignment.

What is interesting is that Obvious has completely neglected to look at my play beyond that notion. If you want to lynch someone, you have to look at what he has done in the game. Trying to lynch me is not scummy, per se, it's how he's trying to lynch me.

Can someone who's played with obvious before tell me just how bad he is? Like you have to be pretty fucking bad to think this kind of playing is valid, but I've lynched terrible townies before...

marv

Fuck you marv, if I had a gun I'd shoot you for being useless and terrible.

Shady

Having not played with him before and knowing nothing about the guy, I wrote him off as a pointless townie. Some people seem to be suggesting that he might be much more outspoken when he's town.

There's a link between shady and ve, it's very unlikely they're scum together, but seeing as I think VE is town, that's kind of redundant.

He might well be scum, for all I know, but not knowing his meta there's nothing glaringly obvious about his play at the moment.

Kville

Strange one, similar position to obivous. He came into the thread in the worst possible way, but I like his attitude after fucking up. There's no persistance on the marv vote, he's willing to reconsider his stances and such.

I already explained how I felt about him coming into the thread here:

Show nested quote +
On August 22 2012 22:01 Palmar wrote:
Kville it's not an unreasonable thing to do by marv to cast his vote on you, when at the time you had simply not posted in the thread.

While it doesn't absolve marv of being mafia, that vote says absolutely nothing about Marv's alignment, and you seem to have decided not to dig any further into his play in the game. In fact, any reasonable townie would realize that there's nothing about "being first" that increases marv's chances of being scum.

Why did you only consider him? You're not dumb enough to think the mafia team would decide to all vote randomly like that, are you? Why did you not even mention the other people going after you?



I'm going to roll the dice on town for this guy.





I'll probably write more and make a decision what I want to lynch

at the moment I'm leaning obvious.



Like genuine, constructive opinions on a number of players. Here we have "lol prplhz town you asses lol long post" and that's about it.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 10:04 GMT
#756
On September 20 2012 13:23 Zephirdd wrote:
Yo hapa, you got a pretty good point on mmtoss activity prior to the deadline. Tomorrow(by that i mean ingame tomorrow) ill take a look at him.

Bluelightz is doing his thing. You can never read him until lylo. Hopefully someone kills him before


nothing could be further from the truth, but whatever.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 10:06 GMT
#757
especially as we should have learnt SOMETHING from last game, Zeph.

Mementoss, saying "don't waste time on me" isn't a very productive thing to do. Tell us where you were leading up to deadline, and why that meant you could handily appear straight after?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 10:10 GMT
#759
wow, thanks for your updated wisdom, Palmar. you such a baws.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 10:11 GMT
#760
your lengthy absence from the thread and you come back with that pile of crap? give me a break.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 11:10 GMT
#763
On September 20 2012 19:56 Palmar wrote:
Or are you just saying that because it's inconvenient for you that I actually agree with prplhz's reads?


No, because you're a completely inconsequential threat to my lynch due to the fact you're playing like a brainless newb.

It's a pile of crap because as per usual you have given no reasoning behind anything, despite being absent and having had the time to do so.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 14:50 GMT
#766
Let's play a fun game, it's called guess the alignment!

On July 17 2012 23:06 Palmar wrote:
layabout
Sloosh
Sandroba
Probulous
HiroPro
Foolishness
VisceraEyes
Bill Murray
Gonzaw
Meapak_Ziphh
Supersoft
austinmcc
Wherebugsgo
Katina
syllogism
GGQ
Blazinghand
Chezinu
Kurumi
rastaban
Mattchew
marvellosity
risk.nuke
Q-bert-Z
RebirthofLegend
Palmar
Zealos

Thank me later.


On September 18 2012 23:05 Palmar wrote:
ok I've caught up.

Will read more attentively later, some of you guys textwall like bosses. Here's my current idea of the thread.


I will deny!
iamperfection
Hapahauli
blazinghand
Palmar

Junglers
Zephirdd
Mementoss
bluelightz
prplhz
Ange777
mkfuba07

5 carries on your team
Marvellosity
HiroPro
austinmcc

[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 14:55 GMT
#768
If I tell you, it spoils the game!
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 14:59 GMT
#771
BH such a cheater :<
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 15:06 GMT
#773
On April 30 2012 23:34 Palmar wrote:
This is like the first rule of day 1 mafia play, something I consider my area of expertise, make people accountable for their actions.



What do we have to hold Palmar accountable for in Day 1?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 15:16 GMT
#780
On September 21 2012 00:10 Blazinghand wrote:
In terms of what we hold Palmar accountable for D1, it's "pushing his case poorly and defending prplhz not at all despite thinking he's town and prplhz being the biggest wagon"


Bingo!!

On September 19 2012 18:17 Palmar wrote:
This prplhz lynch is not good btw, I don't think he's scum now.


On September 19 2012 18:27 Palmar wrote:
Because I don't think he's scum?


On September 20 2012 00:15 Palmar wrote:
Wtf is this shit, prplhz is not scum look at his big post after he started caring.


On September 20 2012 04:21 Palmar wrote:

Here's the deal. prplhz isn't scum. There was a legit concern earlier that he might be but anyone that still thinks he's scum has their heads faaar up their asses.



On September 20 2012 04:43 Palmar wrote:
Fuck it. I'm off for a bit.

I'll rather no-lynch than do a dumb lynch so see you guys later.


On September 19 2012 18:23 Ange777 wrote:
I'll check marv's filter one more time. Meanwhile, tell me why you don't wanna lynch prplhz.


On September 20 2012 05:22 Ange777 wrote:
EBWODP: Oh and I am still waiting for an answer to this, I don't think I have seen a reply to it yet:

Show nested quote +
On September 19 2012 20:28 Ange777 wrote:
On September 19 2012 06:54 prplhz wrote:
I have some small reservations with the marvellosity lynch that I can tell you about later but for now he's my top candidate.


So when is it "later"? How do you want to convince us into lynching your allegedly top scum read when you yourself have reservations you are not willing to share with us?



On September 20 2012 00:18 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2012 00:15 Palmar wrote:
Get off my Hapa bro's case.

Wtf is this shit, prplhz is not scum look at his big post after he started caring.


why does that make him town?


AT NO TIME DID PALMAR WRITE:

Any explanation at all while prplhz was on the chopping block


On September 20 2012 06:03 ghost_403 wrote:

prplhz, one of the Sisters in da Band, was kicked out of da Band.



[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 15:19 GMT
#784
hmm, one of my Ange quotes was a misquote, but my point was that numerous times Palmar was pushed to elaborate on prplhz's town read, and at no time did he do so.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 15:22 GMT
#788
no Zeph, this isn't what this is about. This is about a couple of people saying Palmar is playing to his 'town meta' or whatever.

I don't want a bitchfight, I want people to think about his play critically, which is why i'm bringing this to the thread.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 15:31 GMT
#791
On September 21 2012 00:27 Zephirdd wrote:
Ok let me give a bit of critical thinking.

He was playing townie like up until a point in time. That was when he entered the thread, where he was sharing his reads. HiroPro made a good point on "town is a clusterfuck and he only threw new candidates" but I didn't think it mattered because Palmar is used to bring different stuff into the table, because he plays by himself a lot.

I even would argue that it's normal for Palmar to be kinda bad on day 1 because that's how he lives past night 1 - or that was the case for some time at least, it's been a long time since I last played with him.

However, if he does not step up his game drastically on day 2, I'm all into killing him. Day 2 is the day he shines.


that's why I quoted that post from NMM3 earlier.

Look at the explanations he gives for his reads. Actual paragraphs with thought out points on how things in the game have worked and related to each other. Look at how he can be held accountable for that post and how you can see his thought processes.

Then look at the "lists" he creates when playing scum. Here's another:

On June 13 2012 05:39 Palmar wrote:
Can you stop textwalling? Radfield and Ace were much more fun.

Also, in case I die, this is the list of town from towniest to scummiest.

Radfield
VisceraEyes
Greymist
Ace
chaoser
mrwiggles
gonzaw
BrownBear



[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 16:35 GMT
#797
On September 21 2012 01:32 Hapahauli wrote:
I'll retract on Mementoss for now, and I think Bluelightz is worth taking a look at.

Bluelightz has two substantial posts in his filter:
Case on Mementoss ----> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250&currentpage=9#179
He states that Mementoss isn't contributing, then proceeds to quote like 10 of his posts. More importantly, this was all on day 1, where mementoss's activity levels were acceptable by any standard.

Case on Prplzh ----> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250&currentpage=25#484
This is a really interesting case, because nowhere in the case does he say that Prplzh is "scummy" or is scum. He repeatedly mentions how certain aspects of prplzh's play upsets him ("ticks him off", yadda yadda), but it's not clear if he's even voting prplzh because he's scummy.

It also seems somewhat of an "overkill" case. At that point in the game, prplzh was the clear leading vote candidate with plenty of cases out there against him. Making some gigantic summary post wanting to lynch prplzh is completely unnecessary and reads like an attempt to fake a contribution.

In addition, he has zero interaction with his #1 scum read.


Your point on Palmar's vote or lack thereof is really strong, Hapa.

On BL: yes, it's easy to do analyses on BL going "wtf" but you need to be able to explain how it's different from how he normally plays town :/
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 16:37 GMT
#800
On September 21 2012 01:37 Hapahauli wrote:
Well actually, you had that quote in Normal Mini III about Bluelightz meta - he's obsessed with town when he's town, and scum when he's scum. Now I know you were scum that game, but I'm curious if you think that read is accurate?

Worth noting that Buelightz has no town reads this game.


That would be the most compelling evidence, I think. Even in GSL he voted a 'null' read on Day 1 because everyone else seemed town.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 16:45 GMT
#801
On September 21 2012 01:37 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 01:37 Hapahauli wrote:
Well actually, you had that quote in Normal Mini III about Bluelightz meta - he's obsessed with town when he's town, and scum when he's scum. Now I know you were scum that game, but I'm curious if you think that read is accurate?

Worth noting that Buelightz has no town reads this game.


That would be the most compelling evidence, I think. Even in GSL he voted a 'null' read on Day 1 because everyone else seemed town.


On the flip side to this (talking to myself here), Bluelightz backing down off Mementoss like that is a typical BL town thing to do.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 16:53 GMT
#804
On September 21 2012 01:51 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 01:45 marvellosity wrote:
On September 21 2012 01:37 marvellosity wrote:
On September 21 2012 01:37 Hapahauli wrote:
Well actually, you had that quote in Normal Mini III about Bluelightz meta - he's obsessed with town when he's town, and scum when he's scum. Now I know you were scum that game, but I'm curious if you think that read is accurate?

Worth noting that Buelightz has no town reads this game.


That would be the most compelling evidence, I think. Even in GSL he voted a 'null' read on Day 1 because everyone else seemed town.


On the flip side to this (talking to myself here), Bluelightz backing down off Mementoss like that is a typical BL town thing to do.


Any examples? After looking at his meta a bit, I'd expect townie bluelightz to give a town read on Mementoss at some point in the game.

Really I find it odd that he tunneled prplzh without giving opinions on any of the other lynch candidates.


I don't find that odd in the slightest, to be honest.

In NMM3 he called Obvious scum, Obvious made some response, Bluelightz backed down immediately.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 16:55 GMT
#805
Basically, Hapa, you might have something, because there's threads from his town games that aren't present in this game that you've picked up. I'm just not confident at the moment to take a definitive stab either way.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 17:02 GMT
#810
On September 21 2012 01:59 Hapahauli wrote:
Eh? I just read that and that's not what happened at all:

1st post:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2012 10:53 Bluelightz wrote:
Hello, Bluelightz is here .

I have suspicions on Obvious which I will outline in my next post.


2nd post:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2012 10:59 Bluelightz wrote:
Nevermind my Obvious suspicions, his response is towny.

On August 22 2012 10:54 Obvious.660 wrote:
On August 22 2012 10:53 Bluelightz wrote:
Hello, Bluelightz is here .

I have suspicions on Obvious which I will outline in my next post.

Sweet. I was getting bored.


His response is towny because of this (that he has time, he's spending time to discuss stuff with town).


He then posts 1 or two more things on Obvious then gets caught up in defending himself, jumping around votes and suspicions. He finally votes obvious on the lastminute bandwagon, but follows it up with this:

Show nested quote +
On August 24 2012 10:41 Bluelightz wrote:
I'd love jumping to chez, but imma make a quick case first on him.


Just a remarkably different mentality - much less sure of himself, and much more open with his reads.


right, there are significant differences, i meant the way he was suspicious and backed down from it
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 17:43 GMT
#814
On September 21 2012 02:29 Palmar wrote:
Mementoss is almost certainly town. If I do end up dead tonight you really, really need to take a critical look at the fact that prplhz and I agreed on reads. It's really fucking frustrating that you paint someone scum, then town proceeds to ignore you once you get shot.

Always look at everything said by the people night killed by mafia. Do so critically, but usually there is a reason the people who died, die.

I think marv needs to die tomorrow. If we have a vigilante, the safest targets are HiroPro and perhaps mkfuba07. Generally it's easier to shoot lurkers as they won't be missed. Hapahauli is confirmed town with no action so he should absolutely be protected tonight. However it's probably better that we assume there is a chance BlazingHand and I get protected because that might deter scum from shooting us.

it's very unfortunate prplhz messed up the claim but once he did it I suppose there wasn't anything to do but lynch him. We could've ended up with 2 confirmed townies. I was pretty sure they were both town, especially hapa, but really prplhz too.

The reason I didn't want to switch to austinmcc is that two of my strongest scumreads were already voting for him as I pointed out. Now there's obviously the chance that austin is an SK and I was just being a stubborn asshole, but with hiro and marv both trying to kill him, I saw very little reason to think he might flip scum.

mementoss's interactions with blazinghand during the first moments of the game seem very straightforward and matter of fact. there is no sense of panic as he breaks down the points Blazinhand raised against him. The main reason I think he's town are the two big posts he came up with after I posted the case on marv. In both of them he's genuinely looking at the situation as it is, instead of as he wants it to be.

His addition of mkfuba07 into the mix and the connections between marv and mkfuba is a very valuable addition to the thread, something I would not expect anyone that's scum to pick up on. It proves he's reading the thread with a lot of attention.

Regarding my own meta, marv is using it in the wrong way, obviously. The problem is marv seems to have a lot of time to post, so read everything said and done for it's content, not for who is yelling the loudest.


The thing is, I positively invite people to read me for my content, especially by this stage of the game.

Except the funny thing is, you haven't addressed any of it since you made your original case on me.

Further, you're still calling Hiro a scumread despite never having given reasons for doing so.

You always think people use meta the wrong way. You get lynched as scum every time you are scum on meta, and it's invariably correct.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 17:50 GMT
#815
Why Hiro is one of Palmar's strongest scumreads, by Palmar:

On September 18 2012 23:05 Palmar wrote:
ok I've caught up.

Will read more attentively later, some of you guys textwall like bosses. Here's my current idea of the thread.


I will deny!
iamperfection
Hapahauli
blazinghand
Palmar

Junglers
Zephirdd
Mementoss
bluelightz
prplhz
Ange777
mkfuba07

5 carries on your team
Marvellosity
HiroPro
austinmcc


On September 21 2012 02:29 Palmar wrote:

If we have a vigilante, the safest targets are HiroPro and perhaps mkfuba07. Generally it's easier to shoot lurkers as they won't be missed.

The reason I didn't want to switch to austinmcc is that two of my strongest scumreads were already voting for him as I pointed out. Now there's obviously the chance that austin is an SK and I was just being a stubborn asshole, but with hiro and marv both trying to kill him, I saw very little reason to think he might flip scum.



ah, shit. Absolutely no reason given whatsoever at any point.

Bugger.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 17:57 GMT
#817
Sure. But if you're gonna call someone scum you should bloody well give a reason.

Any fucking reason at all.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 19:58 GMT
#839
Hapa, what made you nullify your read on Mementoss?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 20:08 GMT
#846
On September 21 2012 05:03 Hapahauli wrote:
Ok actually this post by mkfuba is really freggin weird.

Show nested quote +
On September 20 2012 03:56 mkfuba07 wrote:
On September 20 2012 02:58 marvellosity wrote:
On September 20 2012 02:56 mkfuba07 wrote:
EBWOP: "He mentions them elsewhere, but doesn't explain them until after he's posted the list." I feel like at that point it's not even a summary, it's just a list of people who don't have to worry about being pressured by prplhz.


Sorry for posting so much right now. I believe I have class during the deadline, and while I will have access to a computer for the later half of it, I can't guarantee that I'll have time to keep posting then.


As your vote is currently on austinmcc, care to comment on his case and what you make of his recent activity?

Absolutely!

I think the most convincing thing about it is the overall feeling that MMToss isn't really pressuring his scumreads. He hasn't said much about prplhz since the vote until his post about marv and I being suspicious together. I actually forgot that he even had his vote on him. Austinmcc didn't feel particularly pressured. And despite feeling like MMToss should be voting for me instead of prplhz based on his posting so far, I don't feel particularly pressured by him. He seems to be kind of passively throwing around suspicion, but keeping his vote firmly set on prplhz without any force behind it. I'm not sure if this is necessarily scummy (I know, wishy-washy), but I don't feel like it's consistent with MMToss's town play (the limited amount that I have experienced).

Gotta switch classrooms... I'll take another look at austin's recent posts and comment when I'm settled in the other room. Sorry about that :<


Marv asked him for his read on austinmcc.

"Absolutely!"
"MMtoss is playing strange..."
"I'll look at austin later"

Wat?


Yes, I specifically pointed this out as why I'd gotten a scumread on mkfuba (as had one or two others). Pay attention, dear.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 20:16 GMT
#849
Jeesh, I've almost left it too late - I really want to hear from BlazingHand on what he thinkks about Bluelightz, as I got teh impression from the discussions in GSL Open that he had, a pretty good grasp on Bluelightz's meta. I especially want to hear his opinion on whether he thinks Bluelightz' case on Prplhz felt 'forced', and the lack of town/null reads given to the thread.

The point with fubaa is that he was weak giving his reasoning on austin, which took fucking forever anyway, and then when pressed to comment on austin then commented on Mementoss instead. He managed to create a situation where he doesn't have to be held accountable for any of his reads because we don't even know what they are properly..
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 20:16 GMT
#850
On September 21 2012 05:09 Hapahauli wrote:
Yeah see I wasn't around too much late yesterday =(


order of things to do: read things and THEN comment, rather than comment and find out it's been said
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 20:18 GMT
#852
it may lead you away from situations where you're calling fuba town and wondering why I'm calling scum, and only several pages later do you come across the reason I was calling him scum
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 20:24 GMT
#856
On September 21 2012 05:20 austinmcc wrote:
marv, thoughts on Hiro and Bluelightz? You had hiro scummy for a bit, agreed with a lot of what he was posting, and generally had a lot of ... I dunno, distant interaction? with him. Agreeing with his points, directing others to look at his posts for your thoughts. Where does your read on him stand atm?

Also, can you give any sort of read on ange?


I agree with Hapa's assessment of Ange. Leaning town because of effort. I can't find any particular malicious intent or direction in her posting.

I've given what thoughts I have on BL, waiting to hear more from people like BH before trying to firm up further on him either way.

Hiro I'm leaning town on now. In his massive post whenever it was he brought up a load of well thought out points, including analysis and quotes from other games, such as prplhz sheeping Palmar, and my tendency to believe the scummy things I do point towards me being town. I also liked his assessment on how you were appearing apologetic. Basically I'm leaning town on him because many of his thoughts have been unique this game and I like the way he thinks and agree with it much of the time. The thing that stops me giving a firm read of town is that he's still more... detached from the thread than he might be.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 20:37 GMT
#859
On September 21 2012 05:33 Zephirdd wrote:
nobody cared about my palmar post

mesad TT


hey babe, it was good!

I thought similar things, but held my thoughts on it because it presumed I'd damned Palmar in my mind already (getting there xD). One of my thoughts when reading that post was "wifom bombs" you just set it out more neatly and fully. I remember at some point Palmar saying that playing scum is about misleading and sowing as much confusion into town as possible before he dies, as he would inevitably die, and that post matches that.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 20:37 GMT
#860
On September 21 2012 05:37 Mementoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 05:33 Zephirdd wrote:
nobody cared about my palmar post

mesad TT


maybe im biased since it was defending me but I think you were too critical on many factors, Marv was harping him all game about not explaining things and I think he explained himself pretty good there.

Also about the dead people it's true that people should pay more attention to them, but not completely rely on it.

I guess is what I'm saying is I don't agree with almost any of your post lol.


he explained jack shit.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 20:38 GMT
#862
he didn't 'explain' anything else on his main scumread - me - doesn't reference any further thoughts on how I've played

he didn't 'explain' anything on his 2nd highest scumread, HiroPro.

And he barely explained why he abandoned the lynch and didn't vote austin. Hapa has alraedy covered that one. It's a pile of crap.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 20:39 GMT
#863
basically he tried to explain the little things, but all the major stuff got left untouched or badly explained. Not sure how you don't see this.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 20:50 GMT
#865
no blinders at all. In fact I've basically done everything I can to strip away interactions he's had with *me* and concentrated mostly on interactions he's had elsewhere. For example:

1) posting largely unexplained lists, as he does as scum
2) calling one of the main wagons town, but never ever explaining why he's town and letting him get lynched
3) afking for the lynch, again doing nothing to save his town read
4) not voting for his other scumread on contradictory reasons as *someone else* pointed out.
5) calling Hiro scum without ever giving any reasons

This is nothing to do with any blinkers I have, dear.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 20:59 GMT
#872
I remember iamperfection being quite cautious as scum in his newbie game. I was scum coach that game and he sought affirmation a lot for what he was going to post.

He's not a newbie anymore but his brashness seems to be the polar opposite of that.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 21:37 GMT
#895
I was roleblocked
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 21:39 GMT
#897
On September 21 2012 06:38 Palmar wrote:
I believe mementoss's claim and I think it's way too bold for an SK to do that on day 1.


If you weren't to lynch me today, who would you lynch and why?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 21:43 GMT
#900
On September 21 2012 06:42 Palmar wrote:
HiroPro.

Would you agree on lynching him?

I don't have the time to write up a case now, but because mostly of weak presence and strange things I've noticed about him.


No, I don't want to lynch HiroPro for reasons I elaborated on shortly before the deadline.

I do agree with you about the weak presence, though. Please write up a case as soon as you can this cycle as for obvious reasons it will affect my read on you.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 21:55 GMT
#901
god, BH's reply on BL was so fucking unsatisfying :<
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 22:02 GMT
#902
The towniest thing about Palmar at the moment is that he's keeping his cool and not engaging in "you're bad" with me. It's something he does constantly in his scum games, and it's something I've been trying to draw out of him, pretty largely without success.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 22:19 GMT
#905
I'm going to have to refilter, maybe tonight, maybe tomorrow.

I understand why you're voting for Bluelightz, but I'm finding it really hard to feel enthusiastic about wanting to lynch him, but I'll look at him again and see what I can glean.

I'm going to have a hard look at austin again. I know it looks like he suddenly started contributing tonnes, but I know he'd be capable of doing that out of necessity if he needed to. His extremely long absence still doesn't sit well with me, despite what came after. And his comments like "if I were scum, I'd be caught for doing weird setup shit (paraphrasing), not what I'm doing now!"

Honestly I'm finding it superhard to envisage THREE scum right now (or 2/1, whatever).
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 22:31 GMT
#907
yeah I hope to god iamp is town, and basically agree with your read on him. He's not really very useful at all but I kinda enjoy his posts anyway.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 22:33 GMT
#908
Hapa, just because it came to mind - what do you make of Ange quizzing iamperfection about his vote around the time of the lynch / dumb claims?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 22:36 GMT
#910
no problem cutie.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 23:04 GMT
#912
On September 21 2012 07:43 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 07:33 marvellosity wrote:
Hapa, just because it came to mind - what do you make of Ange quizzing iamperfection about his vote around the time of the lynch / dumb claims?


It's pretty strange, given that ange herself was active in the thread during the whole mason-claim fiasco. However, there's just too much overall effort in her posting for me to give her a scumread, despite her relentless tunneling of prplzh. She was never afraid to comment in detail on other cases (Palmar's case on marv), and as far as I'm concerned, was the only player in the thread to have decent rationale for voting him.


Ok. Agree on your bold point quite a bit actually. Normally if scum decide to tunnel someone to look like they're contributing, that's all they do.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 23:23 GMT
#914
can't tell you right now i'm afraid, gonna have to reread properly first.

leaning townish/null/scummish.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 23:43 GMT
#917
[QUOTE]On September 21 2012 08:25 Hapahauli wrote:
[QUOTE]On September 21 2012 08:04 marvellosity wrote:
[QUOTE]On September 21 2012 07:43 Hapahauli wrote:
[QUOTE]On September 21 2012 07:33 marvellosity wrote:
Hapa, just because it came to mind - what do you make of Ange quizzing iamperfection about his vote around the time of the lynch / dumb claims?[/QUOTE]

It's pretty strange, given that ange herself was active in the thread during the whole mason-claim fiasco. However, there's just too much overall effort in her posting for me to give her a scumread, despite her relentless tunneling of prplzh. She was never afraid to comment in detail on other cases (Palmar's case on marv), and as far as I'm concerned, was the only player in the thread to have decent rationale for voting him. [/QUOTE]

Ok. Agree on your bold point quite a bit actually. Normally if scum decide to tunnel someone to look like they're contributing, that's all they do.
[/QUOTE]

Wanted to comment on this, because this is exactly what Bluelightz has been doing.

The more I read through his meta, the more differences in mentality I see between this game and his townie games. Townie bluelightz likes looking for... for lack of better words... "townie idiosyncrasies." He finds little things that makes people townie/null/not-scum/whatever and it really influences his voting process. This gives other people the impression that he's a crazy/wild player due to his mentality.

But when you look at this game, he's built two big cases against players. He's never declared a townie read, and he's been fairly tunnel-y. Look how clean his play is. Does that look like the wild townie Bluelightz "capable of doing anything" that you know?[/QUOTE

As you keep banging on about him, I decided to go back for myself at Normal Mini Mafia II.

And the large problem I came across is that he was quite the opposite there. In fact I was somewhat shocked to see how involved he 'seemed'. If you want me to dig up examples I will, but I think his 'tunnelyness' here is more akin to, say GSL where he basically stuck on vader for two days, than NMM2, where he was on drwiggles, VE, Sinensis, and with other interactions besides.

What say you?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 20 2012 23:55 GMT
#922
You're ignoring my characterisation of his scumplay in NMM2, though, which is more pertinent.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 00:21 GMT
#927
Why do you say it was overkill? It wasn't that long.

The one thing I noticed, actually, was that he opened both the Sinensis and prplhz cases here up with

Case

I find that kinda interesting. But obviously it's not very strong. Quickly browsing through GSL/NMM3 I don't see him doing that there.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 00:30 GMT
#931
On September 21 2012 09:24 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 09:21 marvellosity wrote:
Why do you say it was overkill? It wasn't that long.

The one thing I noticed, actually, was that he opened both the Sinensis and prplhz cases here up with

Case

I find that kinda interesting. But obviously it's not very strong. Quickly browsing through GSL/NMM3 I don't see him doing that there.


"Overkill" in the sense that it was unnecessary. It's not like his case against prplzh was long either - it was just completely unnecessary considering the town atmosphere. There was a lot of suspicion on prplzh well in the open and posted by several players.

Instead of just voting for prplzh/sinensis, he made it a point to really "justify" his vote and lay out is rationale by summarizing a bunch of other points against his target.


yeah, i don't see a problem in rationalising your vote, but I do see where you're coming from. Hmm. I am still musing on this "case" thing though. I wonder if it's like he subconsciously needs to announce that's what it is, whereas he doesn't in townie games. Or if I'm completely making a mountain out of a molehill.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 00:34 GMT
#933
We can iamp, but as me and Hapa happen to be here (and you too) we're bashing stuff out and seeing if we can arrive anywhere with it.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 00:42 GMT
#937
I'm so behind, I hadn't even got on to considering austin's posts yet :<
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 00:45 GMT
#939
no, I mean I literally had been talking to you and looking at Bluelightz's past games and shit, so i was putting austin's posts aside for a moment.

I'll have a proper look myself; obviously I'd had some niggles as I asked you that question about her interactions with iamp a little earlier.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 01:09 GMT
#942
Yeah, one step at a time, baby boy :> Looking over the lynch and ange's filter now.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 01:16 GMT
#943
iamp, this isn't a test, did you think prplhz would flip scum right up to when he didn't?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 01:24 GMT
#947
I'm still going through this all myself, but Mementoss:

whether Ange flips scum or not, I found the fact that austin went back to examine the actually happenings right around the lynch as quite a townie thing to do. Scum look for dirt and do work etc but only town want to work out exactly the reactions on the lynch. What do you tihnk about this?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 01:35 GMT
#950
On September 21 2012 10:28 Mementoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 10:02 austinmcc wrote:
On September 21 2012 09:38 Hapahauli wrote:
@ austin

I think it's a scumslip actually. This is the main thing I'm focusing on:

On September 20 2012 06:03 Ange777 wrote:
Where is the flip? I wanna get the celebration starting


After the fail-claim, Ange is convinced that prplzh and I are scum.

Her second post just doesn't make sense with this mentality.

On September 21 2012 01:07 Ange777 wrote:
@iamperfection:

On September 20 2012 22:57 iamperfection wrote:
also at ange i want to you to explain more on your thought process at the deadline. What was going through your head when the claims came out.


What was going on? I have you marked as a scum read that's what's going on. Why would someone give up his right to vote just to simply sheep another player? Especially sheeping someone you yourself called a terrible townie. There is no town motivatoin for that kind of play. Publicly stating to sheep your town read just gives you an excuse to be wrong with your vote because you were not responsible for it.

And suddenly vote switching in the last minutes onto the seemingly scum prplhz whom you had not mentioned again after dismissing Blazinghand's case as being a weak meta case is just something I don't understand.

Two possibilities:

1) You are town. You want to make sure prplhz gets lynched. But we already had the majority to lynch him. So why the last minute vote? We discussed prplhz a lot before the end of Day 1 and you did not give your stance on him.

2) You are scum. You wanted to get some town cred for jumping on "scum prplhz".


The fail-claim re-enforcing her read on prplzh should be fresh in her mind. Yet she doesn't even consider that iamperfection switched his vote for that reason. Instead, we get a giant diatribe on voting "responsibility."

It should be really clear to "town Ange" why iamperfection switched his vote. Iamperfection switched after the fail-claim, and there's no reason that Ange should be suspicious of him.

Nice catch Austin.

##Unvote Bluelightz
##Vote Ange777


Note, I still have my eye on Bluelightz

As do I, although I will note that I find it interesting that you and marv are heavily discussing Bluelightz past play and his prplhz case (I agree that it feels like overkill). What i found most odd was the way he switched off mementoss for reasons entirely unrelated to his case.

I'm a big fan of multiple players having different reasoning and both arriving on scummy, although I'm still more at concerned about bluelightz than outright scummy. I do wish he'd make good on his requests for questions and actually answer them.


As to ange, one level deeper down the rabbit hole is "Ange was around those couple minutes at deadline but not posting in thread because she was busy in scum QT jumping up and down at lucking out and hitting a mason." If we flip her, and she flips scum, it's an interesting time period to look around for absences, although she pops out because of her questioning and then disappearance more than the absence itself.

I'd be interested in Palmar's thoughts on ange. She was in prplhz's "scummy" range, along with hiropro, who seems to be palmar's lynch preference for today. Palmar was that one of prplhz's reads you were alright with? If so, do you want to share reasoning?


Austinmcc doing ange777 the favour with the soft defense here. A bunch of fluff with such a weird way of talking about ange, no solid view on her at all. Waiting for palmars thoughts on her before he gives his own. God damn your scum. Also, trying to bring back up the bluelightz discussion as soon as ange777 votes come and someone asks his feelings on her, deflection much? Give us a solid fucking read with your answers unless your scum, then keep playing this way.


you should realise this is actually a pretty unfair representation of what austin has done this evening if you've been reading the last few pages.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 01:44 GMT
#953
You know, I've re-read Ange's filter and the lynch a couple of times now, but in reality it all seems to come down to this post, and her previous apparent disbelief that prplhz flipped town.

For the record I asked iamp if he believed prplhz was scum up until the flip, because I wanted to get a feel for what people thought. Mementoss seemed to think prplhz would flip scum until the flip. I realised about on the hour, a few minutes before the actual flip, that prplhz would likely flip town. This is why I was seeking confirmation of what people thought at the time.

On September 21 2012 01:07 Ange777 wrote:
Finally people are taking a closer look at Palmar. I don't know about his past achievements of being perhaps a terrific scum hunter but I have not seen anything worthy of being praised like that in this game yet.

Unfortunately I won't be in for the deadline, for now my top scum reads are Palmar and iamperfection.

@iamperfection:

Show nested quote +
On September 20 2012 22:57 iamperfection wrote:
also at ange i want to you to explain more on your thought process at the deadline. What was going through your head when the claims came out.


What was going on? I have you marked as a scum read that's what's going on. Why would someone give up his right to vote just to simply sheep another player? Especially sheeping someone you yourself called a terrible townie. There is no town motivatoin for that kind of play. Publicly stating to sheep your town read just gives you an excuse to be wrong with your vote because you were not responsible for it.

And suddenly vote switching in the last minutes onto the seemingly scum prplhz whom you had not mentioned again after dismissing Blazinghand's case as being a weak meta case is just something I don't understand.

Two possibilities:

1) You are town. You want to make sure prplhz gets lynched. But we already had the majority to lynch him. So why the last minute vote? We discussed prplhz a lot before the end of Day 1 and you did not give your stance on him.

2) You are scum. You wanted to get some town cred for jumping on "scum prplhz".

Right now I am leaning to 2 as you still haven't given me a satisfying answer for your voting behaviour.


First part: "something I don't understand" - when she was convinced that prplhz was scum and the claims were fake? Doesn't connect.

Second part: this 2) really is the kicker. I literally cannot comprehend the potential townie thought process. If iamperfection is scum, he knows prplhz won't flip scum. So he'd know he wouldn't get credit for it.

Fundamentally Ange seems to have forgotten that the scum she is projecting would know prplhz would flip town. It literally makes no sense at all. She mixed herself up.

##Vote: Ange777
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 01:54 GMT
#956
like seriously tell me austin, as a townie after a townie just died to the lynch, is it even possible to think that someone hopped on to a town lynch for town credit?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 01:57 GMT
#958
I need to read the thread more closely if i'm missing shit like that on first pass
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 01:58 GMT
#960
On September 21 2012 10:58 iamperfection wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 10:16 marvellosity wrote:
iamp, this isn't a test, did you think prplhz would flip scum right up to when he didn't?

i thought he was town untill the fake claim screw up.


yeah, that wasn't the question, but it doesn't matter so much now.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 02:01 GMT
#962
I had meant, after the fake claim made you think he was scum, were you sure of it until the flip revealed otherwise. It seems pretty clear this is the case, and with Mem too.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 02:52 GMT
#969
yeah i find that whole post pretty tenuous in general
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 02:53 GMT
#970
just bad actually
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 02:56 GMT
#975
On September 21 2012 11:54 iamperfection wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 11:53 marvellosity wrote:
just bad actually

how bad

bad bad
or
scum bad


not sure. the whole post is really scummy though. it's mostly nonsense and his reaction to just everything isn't what i expected at all.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 02:57 GMT
#976
Zeph's spent two posts now on Ange going "you guys are making great points!" and the biggest conclusion is that she looks bad and wants to hear from others.

That's seriously weak shit.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 03:01 GMT
#982
So you'll vote Hapa with your first post off the game based on your stupid Zephirdd rule, but when something actually substantial comes up you will refrain from voting and wait to hear from others?

What's going on?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 12:55 GMT
#989
I haven't got more to say on Ange right now, so I'd like to talk about HiroPro a bit. Earlier I've been leaning town because I was impressed with his diligence and his arguments based on going back and finding meta from previous games, which seemed 'townie for effort'. I'm pretty much reversing that read now.

Actually Hiro as town is more categorised by laziness. His last scum game was a while ago (magic mini normal), but looking through his filter there I found this:

+ Show Spoiler +
On May 27 2012 07:00 HiroPro wrote:
Katina:

Katina has hardly been posting in this game and when she does, she's maintained a singular focus on N_T and Matt.

Show nested quote +
On May 22 2012 07:25 Katina wrote:
On May 22 2012 05:52 froggynoddy wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 22 2012 05:29 Tunkeg wrote:
Reads d1 of Day1

Acrofalis/Marvellosity:
Leaning town based on Acrofalis aggression while he was in game. He tried to get this game going, and tried to apply some pressure.

EchelonTee:
Leaning town. He went into a fight with Acrofalis from the get go, and haven't been afraid to stick his head out.

Zealos
Get some scumvibes off him. He started the game by voting VE as number two, without a good reason. He claims it to be a joke later (which it might be). He then proceeds to vote Acrofales based on ET's case, and because of meta, basicly sheeping ET. The rest of his filter seems very empty, even though he got more post than most in this game. Some townpoints for actually bother to answer questions.

Mattchew
He might be one of those I called out for not posting earlier, that is a scum. I don't know what he is trying to do, but if his postingstyle continues this way he will be disruptive townie at best, and sabotaging scum at worst. Leaning scum for now.

Nova_Terra
Leaning scum. He was active at the start, but unlike Acrofalis his attempts at pushing seems more forced, and with no real weight behind it. His whole postingstyle seems very non-commital and gives me scumvibes.

Also Navillus need to get in the thread and do some more. His vote on WBG is the only thing he have done. And it was done without much reasoning, and in my opinion strange reasoning.


PS: I know you guys don't like list. But I want to do lists so bare with me.

PS 2: This is not an analysis post. It is a read post. When I am ready to put my vote down on someone I will try to make a good case/analysis on them. Exception is if there is a great case on them that I agree with, then I will be open about sheeping it, and probably just add some of my own reasoning to it.



This list... serves no purpose other than making you look active. Town reads are worse than useless day 1 as 1. they are even weaker than day 1 scumreads and 2. points to scum who to kill to cause confusion.

EDIT: There was more but WBG and Navillus covered it whilst I was writing

+ Show Spoiler +
On May 22 2012 05:37 Navillus wrote:
Okaaay so my WBG vote was a joke, I do not actually think it's a good idea to lynch one of our 2 vets on that basis alone and I am not really of the opinion that advice is an automatic scum-tell, it'd be nice to have a little benefit of the doubt on me not being an idiot.

Next ##Unvote
##Vote: Mattchew


As far as I can tell he's just posting with flavor text from mtg cards, if that continues I don't really care if he's scum or town it makes him impossible to read, doesn't let him contribute, and makes for a really shitty atmosphere. Mattchew stop it.

On N_T yes VE and WBG I'd say he's using pretty bad method of scumhunting/analysis and his vote is for a dumb reason, but that doesn't make him scum and aside from clear-cut examples of someone being useless or disruptive (such as restricting their posts to text from a card game) it's a bad idea to lynch someone for bad play, in my experience it's rarely a scumtell and depending on how they're playing badly it can be more of a town tell.

Tunkeg you asked a bunch of questions earlier, most of them were ignored, was there any point to them? Why don't you care that people didn't answer you/why aren't you following up? Also why post that list, if you have scum reads why aren't you just pressuring them instead of telling them, and how does telling everyone your town-reads do anything but let scum know who you think is townie and so light them up as targets?

Holy spam batman! NT scum or town please stop with multiple one or two line posts in a row, it's distracting and makes the thread harder to read through, consolidate.


How is voting for Mattchew due to his posting style (which you consider to be *Bad*) different to voting N_T based on bad play?

I don't necessarily disagree with you I just think you're being a little inconsistent. Shoot I forgot to unvote as promised:

##Unvote
##Vote Katina


Inactive players kill town. Katina, my vote stays on you until you make an appearance.


I made an apperance earlier today. Do you not read over the thread my dear?

On May 22 2012 03:27 Nova_Terra wrote:
On May 22 2012 02:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
On May 21 2012 21:17 Nova_Terra wrote:
Hey VE since you seem to want to ignore my challenge who do you wanna kill


Hey Nova, since you seem to want to ignore my question to you (something that's actually USEFUL to this game, unlike your "challenge"), how about you actually answer it instead of trying to distract town with meaningless drivel? I'll even repost it for your convenience.

On May 21 2012 08:56 VisceraEyes wrote:
On May 21 2012 05:59 Nova_Terra wrote:
On May 21 2012 05:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
Whether or not advice is good has nothing to do with the alignment of a player, just the same as making a plan, regardless of how good it is, is generally not indicative of alignment.

If the advice makes sense, follow it. If not, don't. The question of "is this guy scum" has nothing to do with that.

I never said that it has anything to do with indicacating the alignment of the player,i said that general advice seems to be contributing but isnt really. and that its just as likely mister helpful is scum, etc.


Your style has so far been laced with an air of giving advice to the other players - in what way is Bugs' post giving advice any different from, say, you warning that "players trying to give advice could be scum"?

ooh i forgot about that
Its different because its not all i've done
and because i know im town
and its not really different itself, but i was aware of the hypocrisy before i made teh post


I would to bring attention to this lovely post. N_T might be the BM version 2! I say this because of his spam, oneliners, and the fact he seems to be refreshing the thread every 5 minutes. When BM is mafia he always over emphasizes that he is confirmed town.

Such things are silly to say and provide no help to the town I will be setting my vote.

##Vote Nove_Terra

Based on his fliter, he seems to more interesting in proving his innocence then trying to find the Mafia.


Show nested quote +


Look at this link where N_T was mafia. Notice that he spams here.... and what is he doing this game?
...
...
Spam!


JubJub 2:

Show nested quote +
On March 23 2012 14:04 Katina wrote:
DoctorHelvetica is mafia

This is because throughout the game he has been inconsistent in his posting.He doesn't seem to have a focus at all. DrH has done a massive amount of finger pointing. His posts consist of spamming and calling people retards.

DrH is inconsistent and pointing fingers a lot. Take a look at this post:
On March 12 2012 07:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Caller is trolling, mafia shouldn't be that scared of me to push me day 1 for no reason because I often back off my correct reads if I get distracted.

It's up to an individuals discretion whether or not they share who they are PMing with, policy lynching someone for not doing it is stupid. Also, town circles could be set up so that somebody can claim DT to someone they confirm and then use that person to broadcast their reads, or a tracker/watcher/etc. That can be useful. In that case the last thing you want is everyone saying who they are with.

Jackal58 is being a bit silly with what Wiggles and people like that are saying. His point is that scum know who town is and because of that they can cut down any circles that arise that they aren't directly involved in themselves. Especially it would be dangerous for someone to say "i'm pming with A B C and D" and then later come out and say "I'm PMing the DT and..." when say, B and C are dead or something. It's up to an individual to share their PM targets or not.

Gumshoe is posting a lot and very focused on town circles and such. For that reason, I'm voting for him. He has 2 pages of filter all completely disconnected from finding scum. The way you're probing Caller looks as though it would be helpful, but doesn't actually lead to anything. It's wishy washy, I feel like it's the kind of thing that scum would feel they can't ignore but don't want to commit to Caller if he's town. That'll satisfy me for now, it's pretty likely I'll come up with something better or that Gumshoe will just make himself look worse

The last paragraph is important here. He says gumshow is suspicious and is going to vote for him. Yet 8 hours later he makes this post:
On March 12 2012 15:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On March 12 2012 15:03 Bill Murray wrote:
@doctorh, what are the reasons you like from curu? I'm catching up, and I value your opinion. That is also why I am sort of sheeping you. You saw what I saw out of gumshoe, switched when that wagon wasn't going anywhere for some reason, and probably found a good one here.

I remember Caller's posting earlier on in the day being suspect. He came in like a bull, china flying everywhere, and the broken glass and debris are making it easy to see a case on him being valid.

tl;dr: catching up, asking questions, can see caller being scum


Caller came in trolling then made his case when there was light pressure and it seems forced. I'm not totally sold on him at the moment because I feel like this is pretty much in line with the way he always acts but Curu does make a better case. I still think Caller is a better lynch than Jackal but I'm not confident enough to push it.

Caller's case is based on, from what I can tell, misunderstanding of jackals post and then overstating the significance of it. Curu has a meta read that is at least accurate. Jaybrundage is one of those players who seems to me to be participating only in the surface discussion and making little effort to figure out what peoples motives are or hunt scum. His last few posts speak for themselves really. His confidence is a little bit out of place for a newer scum player though.

I'm torn between Caller and jaybrundage right now. I'd be on prplhz in an instant if his logic wasn't equally terrible last time I played with him.

I'm waiting for Pandain to come into play, he's awful so I'll know right away if he's scum or not.

And now his focused has shifted to Caller and jaybrundage. And this is where his focused stayed for all of another 12 hours until he posts this:
On March 13 2012 05:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
How does Caller thinking a scum would defend another scum make him scum? Maybe I'm not following your logic.

Jackal, roleclaiming was unnecessary. If there is no claim to the contrary I'll believe you. Dreamflower is a pretty specific role and I doubt there is more than one in this game as opposed to something like medic or veteran.

We need to reconsider the business surrounding prplhz. His play is poor but it's not particularly scummy and the attempt to pin someone as scum for making a similar case around the same timeframe is ridiculous and comes off to me as a hamfisted attempt by scum to start a bandwagon. The fact that it took makes me even more sure it's scum originated or backed.

Wiggles is the first to jump on it, doing nothing in the game besides talk about mechanics/town strategy (at great length) until this point I'm surprised his first attempt at hunting scum is so forced and illogical. The fact that prplhz made a case near the same time period is inconclusive, might perhaps implicate that he is town talking to curu or caller in PM but hardly mafiaesque.

Jitsu is the only one who voted for him and he's already been in the hotseat. This is the most alarming event in this thread to me. The Caller vs VE deal is really coming off to me like an ensuing tragedy of townie vs townie.

And now he's dealing with Jackal and Wiggles and Jitsu.

What is interesting is how quickly DrH jumps from one case to the next. He accuses and votes for gumshoe, yet never brings up the case again except where he says he's changing his vote. He moves his vote to Caller at one point before finalizing on Jitsu.

Part of the problem here is that he never follows up on his reads. From here on out all he has are one liners and random posts, there is nothing more about his reads until he makes the following post:
On March 14 2012 09:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Node is suspicious. I'm leaning toward Node or Caller on day 2. I know Caller is a ballsy player but he comes off as way too phony. He makes a fake case on me then ditches it for a bad case on Jackal then goes back to attacking me? He's just playing disruptively.

Node's vote switch to Sheth is a joke. Not only was Jackal not gonna get lynched but I refuse to believe by the way he was posting that he put so little thought into the game as to waste a vote on somebody completely random (the only one that actually had excusable inactivity) like Sheth.


This post came near the end of night 1 as well. Suddenly there is no more attention on Jitsu. He moves away from it just like he did with gumshoe. He makes the occasional one liner about him being mafia, but never pushes his case ever again.

And on Day 2 he makes this post
On March 15 2012 08:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Kurumi is indefenseable at this point.

jaybrundage, you play like scummy shit all game then start demanding role claims from everyone. Stop doing that. If you're town, it's stupid and unhelpful.

With Kurumi gone, we need to shoot prplhz tonight or lynch him tomorrow. He's been on Jackal and didn't react to Jackal's claim but despite this obvious fakery from Kurumi, he chooses to ignore it then go after me. He is aggressive then immediately backs off and acts like he was just messin around. What a joke.

Curu straight up lies about things I say, he at least has the good sense to vote for Kurumi.

I'm not pushing Caller anymore, his claim seems to be legit and like I said I lost some confidence in him as the day went on and moved toward Jitsu (who is also misrepresenting me). It isn't scummy for a player to change their mind and it isn't my priority to tell the town about every change of thought or thing I think, otherwise I'd end up spamming the thread. If you're that interested in my thought process, just PM me, I'm not going to clutter the thread with that shit.

kurumi, prplhz, curu that's my best guess. Abenson, rgTheSchworz, Sentinel, probably scum or traitor between those 3. Dunno about Palmar. His play seems pro-town but I know he's good. If he's town this game is probably in the bag, if it's scum it's over since it seems a town circle has been built around him.

Nobody has PM'd me in this game yet, which surprises me a little.

and Jitsu isn't even on his mafia list. Furthermore he only lists Curu as scum because Curu was being a JubJub. DrH should know better than most that idiocy =/= Mafia. Yet he puts Curu on his mafia list, but removes him later on the account that Curu started making more sense.

DrH is known to second guess himself more than anyone else. He even admits to it. The problem is is that he is not second guessing himself. He makes a case against someone, then immediately drops it and never returns to it. He simply has no focus. His agenda is in correspondence with a mafia. He accuses lots of people to insinuate the doubt. He tries to make everyone look bad so nobody is in the clear. Then when a mafia gets lynched he can immediately defend himself by saying he was onto them.

Someone said that DrH pushed for the Kurumi lynch so therefore he is in the clear. However if you observe the day 2 votes you will notice that it's very likely the mafia team was on Kurumi the whole time. Bill Murray has gotten a town check, the only remaining players not on Kurumi are myself and EchelonTee. So he is not immediately in the clear because of the Kurumi lynch. In fact the majority of his posts about Kurumi entail things like this post:

On March 16 2012 04:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
This thread is in fucking chaos and if this keeps up we will continue having no lynches for the rest of the game. Is everyone this terrible? I can't believe Kurumi is actually going to get away with straight up faking his role and doing nothing but trolling and trying to find the traitor all game.

I also can't believe that Curu making shit up to try to get Jackal killed and him and his scumbuddy prplhz trying to get a town suicide vig to shoot at night (benefits scum) ONLY seems odd to me. This is far and away the most embarrassing town performance I've ever seen.

You're an idiot if you don't vote for Kurumi. Caller is saying to vote for me because I flip flop and "only talk about the set-up". That's a bald faced lie, the majority of my posts are about scum or pressure and I'm WELL KNOWN to flip-flop and second guess myself constantly as town such as in AC where I changed my vote like ten times in the first day. In fact, if anything, the fact that I haven't changed my vote a million times makes me look bad. I don't even know what Katina is doing but she has no sense of meta and seems to be completely missing the obvious.

Caller is the dayvig, he confirmed it as far as I can tell so unless he somehow faked shooting Node, why would anyone vote for him? Scum have their powers in that KP cost thing it says so in the setup ...

So what Kurumi did is too scummy to be scummy? Congratulations, you've failed the most basic fucking trap of bad townie logic now never sign up for another game again you retarded jubjubs

His posts about Kurumi are much like this one: "vote Kurumi or else you retard!" His only reason for voting Kurumi is that Kurumi scum slipped. No analysis or anything. Vote Kurumi or you're retarded. If this is what scumhunting is than Palmar should be the reigning champion.

Even more proof of his inconsistency can be found if you click his filter and search for my name. Multiple times he lists me as mafia yet he has never hard pushed for me or giving reasons why I need to be lynched. In one post he says, "katina has called me out for stupid reasons but I'm not saying she looks like shit for "tunneling a townie" because my alignment isn't confirmed." This is interesting because when I first accused him he agreed with the arguments that I was making. He even acknowledged that he was jumping all over the place on his reads. As I said before, he's not second guessing himself. He is mafia and is casting doubt upon all the players. He has done a fabulous job of accusing everyone so when someone flips mafia he can say that he was suspicious of said person. Even if he was on Caller and Kurumi, he hasn't done anything recently besides cast more doubt on the remaining players. He has pushed for Jay to get lynched, but the majority of his accusations can be summarized with "Jay is retarded, let's kill him".

This leads into the obvious fact that DrH is acting nothing like he does when he is town. This is evident from his past games. Look at one of his posts from Storm Mafia:
On February 23 2012 09:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I didn't sheep anybody. I made my case on BC well before I even read syllogisms original post. You're connecting points I'm making in specific reference to other peoples posts to unrelated ideas. I was trying to illustrate that the wagon forming quickly doesn't mean much. The scum don't need to defend redFF if they can get somebody else lynched.

I don't think my posts are wishy washy. I wasn't yelling in the thread for one person to get lynched over any other, but that can't really be defined as wishy washiness. I wasn't planning on rebutting the case on redFF because I never ever thought it needed to be rebutted. I voted for redFF in the end. I moved my vote to BC to put pressure on him and make sure he stays active in the thread, his responses satisfied me enough that I wanted to stick with my original convictions and give BC Day 2 to prove himself. Needless to say I'll be keeping a close eye on him.

Calling BC the alternative lynch is a non-point since his flip, or lack thereof, was inconclusive. You don't know whether or not he is scum, unless you are scum, so implying that it is a defensive alternative makes no sense as town especially considering redFF is the person I voted for.

I never called RedFF not scum. I never called him 100% scum. I said very clearly RedFF is likely scum or terrible town but his claim is poorly done and seems defensive. I was more than okay with the RedFF lynch, which seemed so likely to go through at the time I switched to BC to pressure another player I was suspicious of. Seeing as RedFF has been AWOL during this entire period, I feel I made the right choice. If I didn't think RedFF was very suspect, I would have been far more vocal in trying to get people to join a BC bandwagon but you will notice I did no such thing as far as I can recall anyway. That's as much as I'll say in the interest of defending myself.


This redFF "flip", or whatever it is, is inconclusive and I don't feel it necessary to comment on it further. I'll read filters when I have the time.

Notice how he is very direct in explaining his actions about where his vote and suspicion lies. There isn't a single post he's made in this game that can be mirrored with a typical post from that game. He hasn't done any explaining this game. He only focuses on the present and fails to address his past behavior. And the few times people have brought up this fact his response has been "well I always second guess myself trolol" Put simply, he is not taking responsibility for his actions.

It's also interesting to note how calm and collected he has been in the past when he is town. The above post is typical in showing is behavior when analyzing and addressing issues. Of course we know him to have a temper from time to time, as we all do whenever we are in a game with VE. However this game he has done nothing but call people retarded over and over again. This attitude is a bit reminiscent of wherebugsgo when he is mafia. I can understand being frustrated with the game (considering I have Jay riding my ass constantly), but the level of his insults coming from DrH is not only out of character, but completely unnatural.

I would also like to mention that this game DrH has an absurd amount of one liners and small posts. A quick glance through Storm Mafia and Arkham City show that his posting length this game is also not in sync with his normal town play. When DrH is town, he is not afraid to write paragraphs upon paragraphs detailing his thoughts. This game we have one liners about how small our IQ is.


Summary
DrH has been playing completely out of character from his typical town play. He hasn't been focused, anormous finger pointing, one liners and insults. His posts have been inconsistent and bringing confusion into the thread. He has not been responsible this game and he needs to be held accountable for it.
DrH is mafia

##Vote DoctorHelvetica




In this game, when going after N_T Katina displays a very odd use of meta - very different from the way she used in the past (LII: Jubjub Mafia where Katina fingers DocH based on meta with a clear difference between his town and mafia styles (when DocH is town his posting is much longer and doesn't attack other people)). Compare that to this game, where Katina uses meta against Nova_Terra (Nova_Terra is scum because he spams as mafia. Yet he does this both as town and mafia...) That's not a logical argument at all. Also everyone should look at the cases that Katina makes in that game and compare that to this game; there's a clear level of depth that's missing from anything she has posted here.

This Game:

Show nested quote +
On May 27 2012 02:34 Katina wrote:
Okay first of all, I'm really tired of people (WBG) assuming I'm mafia because of my Meta I have said myself I have been busy. Stuff kept coming up this week, that's what happens when you have a "Life". I am sorry I couldn't be more active.

Secondly the two people I have been gunning for (N_T and Mattchew) are doing nothing but constantly bashing me. N_T is so focused on getting me lynched he is completely distracting himself from the forum. Mattchew is butt hurt because I got him to crack and stop using his quotes.

Third, I realize that Zealos claimed. I was fine lynching him as I stated in one of my posts before that. So me voting for someone I thought was scummy is considered Mafia? I love the logic behind that.

I apologize for not spewing out random votes and cluttering up the thread like a lot of you do. Everyone is so focused on me for stupid reasons when there are so many scummier people.


Liar Game:

Show nested quote +
On May 16 2012 07:26 Katina wrote:
On May 16 2012 03:04 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On May 16 2012 00:10 Katina wrote:
On May 15 2012 07:35 slOosh wrote:
Katina are you calling Meapak scum? Or misguided? How about prplhz?

Not really. His reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't actually think he's mafia but then again I have no idea who could be on Palmar's team other than Wiggles.

Katina I'm sick of you half assing this game. Put in some goddamn effort and give us some ACTUAL reasons. I don't know, maybe write an analysis, maybe have more of a thread presence, maybe PM people and at least pretend like you're interested.

After the cephiro flip I blew up all my reads and started over again and let me say this katina, it's foolishness's insistence that you're town which is preventing me right now from putting you in the majority and lynching you this cycle. Play the game.

I have been sir.

I do not mean to overstep your pride here. Let me say again that your reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't say this in an accusatory way; it's the truth. I don't think you are mafia, but as I said I don't know who the last member on Palmar's team is (I think Wiggles is one of them).

You said that Palmar is innocent because he has had the same reads as you from the start. That does not indicate anything about alignment. Palmar has wanted to kill sandroba and Cephiro (these are the two you listed). But everyone wants to kill those two. Also it makes the most sense that sandroba is the last member of BC's team. So Palmar isn't bussing one of his teammates.

The most incriminating piece of evidence is that Palmar was virtually derping when syllogism was alive. That's cause syllogism was hard core pushing his innocence especially in PMs. I know Foolishness and wherebugsgo were both suspicious of Palmar but syllogism made it hard for them to push that read. That and there were more important targets at the time. If you look through Palmar's post history you will see he was most active day 1 and then in the previous days since syllogism's death. Palmar was using syllogism as an excuse to not do anything. With syllogism constantly pushing his innocence he did not have to try at all, either in the thread or PM. He has only stepped up his posting since syllogism died, whether he's stepped up in PM land or not I don't know.

Even if you want to start pointing guns at me, you still need to explain why Palmar deserves a free pass. Cause this isn't about me, it's about Palmar. And like I said at least one person out of you, me, and Palmar has to be mafia. Unless you're going to claim mafia I'm not stopping until Palmar is dead.



When attacked in previous games (for example Liar Game) Katina typically brings forth new thoughts and reads (She's very eager to elaborate her reads on Palmar and address the issues that other people bring up). In this game though, Katina just says that she was busy and repeats the same arguments that she's been giving the entire game without analyzing anything new.

With such a big difference between her town play and her play this game and a general lack of good posting and reads, I think Katina is almost definitely scum.


A fairly long well thought through post, making valid points based on meta across several games and applying them to the current game. Except it's scum Hiro making this post.

Looking through his town games, they are more categorised by shorter posts, where ultimately Hiro is more involved in what's going on than he is here.

I believe HiroPro is scum
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 13:19 GMT
#991
that much seems evident ^^
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 13:22 GMT
#993
On September 21 2012 22:21 Palmar wrote:
That is very much fine with me. This ange lynch is not good anyway.


you need to explain very clearly why. I'm up for Ange more than Hiro atm.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 13:26 GMT
#995
Yes, you do need to, because otherwise Ange will get lynched. And then we will lynch you next for being useless.

Tell us how her actions around the lynch time can be viewed with a townie perspective. "No" simply isn't good enough.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 13:36 GMT
#998
On September 21 2012 22:32 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 22:26 marvellosity wrote:
Yes, you do need to, because otherwise Ange will get lynched. And then we will lynch you next for being useless.

Tell us how her actions around the lynch time can be viewed with a townie perspective. "No" simply isn't good enough.


So let's say Ange gets lynched and flips town, are you going to try and lynch me for being useless.

I don't think there's enough dumb players in this game. In fact, connecting an unrevealed lynch like that to me somehow is just reinforcing my belief that you should die today. You're basically already planning for the next move after Ange gets mislynched. Fuck that, I'm not allowing you to do that.

##Vote marvellosity

@Restoftown:

Here's a very simple reason for this vote. Marv just made a post where he's planning on how to proceed in the game without considering the results of his current plan right now, which is indicative of him having additional information that we don't have, ie already knowing how an Ange lynch will end.


The reference is to how you didn't stand up for your town-read prplhz on Day 1 and he ended up getting lynched, which was inexcusable behaviour.

I have already made it abundantly clear that I do not see a townie motivation for Ange's posts around the deadline.

Somehow you refuse to answer the question on why she could be town from this. I was asking you because, as a supposedly good player at picking shit up, you might have insight into it, and yet you refuse to answer.

Mementoss (retardedly imo) gave your atrocious Day 1 play a pass on the basis that "Palmar wants to survive to Day 2 so he can be useful". This is your chance and you're fucking blowing it.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 13:38 GMT
#1000
On September 21 2012 22:33 Palmar wrote:
Spamming the game up and saying he's up for lynching half the people in the game is not indicative of marv being town.

I'll just be here on my wagon until anyone starts listening.


you're just not reading the thread at all, are you?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 13:40 GMT
#1002
no, Hiro is much scummier than BL.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 13:40 GMT
#1004
at least read my thoughts on his behaviour/meta and comment on it, Hapa.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 13:43 GMT
#1007
On September 21 2012 22:41 Palmar wrote:
Well then I blow it.

You see, by now you've spammed the thread hard enough that there is no chance that I'm ever going to actually get you lynched. I would actually much rather town lynched me than Ange, because at least then I've flipped, and people can start reading back to what I've said.

My best chance of making something useful happen in this game is to just make sure that for when I'm dead people KNOW that I have been trying to get you lynched all the way through the game. Sure, I'd much rather people just listened early, also I thought prplhz would pull himself out of the hole, not botch the mason claim and die.

Seriously, if anyone can read this and watch how you're somehow making me responsible for a terrible lynch that shouldn't have happened because I'm not loud enough.

what the fuck.



You are at least partly responsible because you had a strong townie read on prplhz that you absolutely refused to explain.

Now you are doing the same with Ange.

Why is Ange not a good lynch today? How can you explain her actions as townie around the lynch with iamp?

Answer.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 13:44 GMT
#1009
alright scummyscum
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 13:44 GMT
#1010
"I refuse to contribute". Well done Palmar.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 13:46 GMT
#1012
Mementoss, fill your boots bro. If you think Palmar played shittily Day 1 to survive and make these contributions Day 2 as town, then I don't know what to say.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 14:03 GMT
#1016
I had a 25 page filter in a mini once xD
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 15:19 GMT
#1022
That says nothing at all, well done again. No reasoning for anything at any point in that post.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 15:29 GMT
#1024
No, he never ever gave reasoning for Hiro. The fact that you don't even fucking realise this is why I should keep pointing stuff like that out. In short, piss off austin.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 15:41 GMT
#1028
On September 22 2012 00:38 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 00:29 marvellosity wrote:
No, he never ever gave reasoning for Hiro. The fact that you don't even fucking realise this is why I should keep pointing stuff like that out. In short, piss off austin.

Yup, I was wrong. No reasoning on Hiro.

But no, it's not a reason to keep pointing it out, and it's especially not a reason to keep sniping at him. If you've been trying to potty train a kid for 8 years and he's still just peeing himself at the dinner table, then at some point you give up on it. You strap a diaper and a helmet on him and send him out into the world to go count to purple. Anybody who thinks, right now, "Palmar is giving a hell of a lot of good reasoning behind his reads" is that kid. Anybody who isn't doesn't need to be informed that there's still a lack of involvement.

Spend your energy elsewhere. I've seen you get tangled up with one person for an entire cycle, and it neuters your ability to do anything else. IF Palmar is scum, then it feels like that's what is going on, you're just being goaded into wasting all your effort on sniping/fuming/looking at Palmar.


Why say this? I'm voting for Ange, and I think I found another scum in HiroPro.

Why don't you discuss what I said about HiroPro instead of YOU pointlessly sniping at ME, hypocritically?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 16:00 GMT
#1033
On September 22 2012 00:54 austinmcc wrote:

However, I'll go look at hiropro. But...you haven't been as vocal on him as you think? Heres you on Hiro the last 20 hours or so...
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 05:24 marvellosity wrote:
Hiro I'm leaning town on now. In his massive post whenever it was he brought up a load of well thought out points, including analysis and quotes from other games, such as prplhz sheeping Palmar, and my tendency to believe the scummy things I do point towards me being town. I also liked his assessment on how you were appearing apologetic. Basically I'm leaning town on him because many of his thoughts have been unique this game and I like the way he thinks and agree with it much of the time. The thing that stops me giving a firm read of town is that he's still more... detached from the thread than he might be.

Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 05:38 marvellosity wrote:
he didn't 'explain' anything on his 2nd highest scumread, HiroPro.

Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 06:43 marvellosity wrote:
On September 21 2012 06:42 Palmar wrote:
HiroPro.

Would you agree on lynching him?

I don't have the time to write up a case now, but because mostly of weak presence and strange things I've noticed about him.


No, I don't want to lynch HiroPro for reasons I elaborated on shortly before the deadline.

I do agree with you about the weak presence, though. Please write up a case as soon as you can this cycle as for obvious reasons it will affect my read on you.

Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 21:55 marvellosity wrote:
I haven't got more to say on Ange right now, so I'd like to talk about HiroPro a bit. Earlier I've been leaning town because I was impressed with his diligence and his arguments based on going back and finding meta from previous games, which seemed 'townie for effort'. I'm pretty much reversing that read now.

Actually Hiro as town is more categorised by laziness. His last scum game was a while ago (magic mini normal), but looking through his filter there I found this:

+ Show Spoiler +
On May 27 2012 07:00 HiroPro wrote:
Katina:

Katina has hardly been posting in this game and when she does, she's maintained a singular focus on N_T and Matt.

Show nested quote +
On May 22 2012 07:25 Katina wrote:
On May 22 2012 05:52 froggynoddy wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 22 2012 05:29 Tunkeg wrote:
Reads d1 of Day1

Acrofalis/Marvellosity:
Leaning town based on Acrofalis aggression while he was in game. He tried to get this game going, and tried to apply some pressure.

EchelonTee:
Leaning town. He went into a fight with Acrofalis from the get go, and haven't been afraid to stick his head out.

Zealos
Get some scumvibes off him. He started the game by voting VE as number two, without a good reason. He claims it to be a joke later (which it might be). He then proceeds to vote Acrofales based on ET's case, and because of meta, basicly sheeping ET. The rest of his filter seems very empty, even though he got more post than most in this game. Some townpoints for actually bother to answer questions.

Mattchew
He might be one of those I called out for not posting earlier, that is a scum. I don't know what he is trying to do, but if his postingstyle continues this way he will be disruptive townie at best, and sabotaging scum at worst. Leaning scum for now.

Nova_Terra
Leaning scum. He was active at the start, but unlike Acrofalis his attempts at pushing seems more forced, and with no real weight behind it. His whole postingstyle seems very non-commital and gives me scumvibes.

Also Navillus need to get in the thread and do some more. His vote on WBG is the only thing he have done. And it was done without much reasoning, and in my opinion strange reasoning.


PS: I know you guys don't like list. But I want to do lists so bare with me.

PS 2: This is not an analysis post. It is a read post. When I am ready to put my vote down on someone I will try to make a good case/analysis on them. Exception is if there is a great case on them that I agree with, then I will be open about sheeping it, and probably just add some of my own reasoning to it.



This list... serves no purpose other than making you look active. Town reads are worse than useless day 1 as 1. they are even weaker than day 1 scumreads and 2. points to scum who to kill to cause confusion.

EDIT: There was more but WBG and Navillus covered it whilst I was writing

+ Show Spoiler +
On May 22 2012 05:37 Navillus wrote:
Okaaay so my WBG vote was a joke, I do not actually think it's a good idea to lynch one of our 2 vets on that basis alone and I am not really of the opinion that advice is an automatic scum-tell, it'd be nice to have a little benefit of the doubt on me not being an idiot.

Next ##Unvote
##Vote: Mattchew


As far as I can tell he's just posting with flavor text from mtg cards, if that continues I don't really care if he's scum or town it makes him impossible to read, doesn't let him contribute, and makes for a really shitty atmosphere. Mattchew stop it.

On N_T yes VE and WBG I'd say he's using pretty bad method of scumhunting/analysis and his vote is for a dumb reason, but that doesn't make him scum and aside from clear-cut examples of someone being useless or disruptive (such as restricting their posts to text from a card game) it's a bad idea to lynch someone for bad play, in my experience it's rarely a scumtell and depending on how they're playing badly it can be more of a town tell.

Tunkeg you asked a bunch of questions earlier, most of them were ignored, was there any point to them? Why don't you care that people didn't answer you/why aren't you following up? Also why post that list, if you have scum reads why aren't you just pressuring them instead of telling them, and how does telling everyone your town-reads do anything but let scum know who you think is townie and so light them up as targets?

Holy spam batman! NT scum or town please stop with multiple one or two line posts in a row, it's distracting and makes the thread harder to read through, consolidate.


How is voting for Mattchew due to his posting style (which you consider to be *Bad*) different to voting N_T based on bad play?

I don't necessarily disagree with you I just think you're being a little inconsistent. Shoot I forgot to unvote as promised:

##Unvote
##Vote Katina


Inactive players kill town. Katina, my vote stays on you until you make an appearance.


I made an apperance earlier today. Do you not read over the thread my dear?

On May 22 2012 03:27 Nova_Terra wrote:
On May 22 2012 02:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
On May 21 2012 21:17 Nova_Terra wrote:
Hey VE since you seem to want to ignore my challenge who do you wanna kill


Hey Nova, since you seem to want to ignore my question to you (something that's actually USEFUL to this game, unlike your "challenge"), how about you actually answer it instead of trying to distract town with meaningless drivel? I'll even repost it for your convenience.

On May 21 2012 08:56 VisceraEyes wrote:
On May 21 2012 05:59 Nova_Terra wrote:
On May 21 2012 05:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
Whether or not advice is good has nothing to do with the alignment of a player, just the same as making a plan, regardless of how good it is, is generally not indicative of alignment.

If the advice makes sense, follow it. If not, don't. The question of "is this guy scum" has nothing to do with that.

I never said that it has anything to do with indicacating the alignment of the player,i said that general advice seems to be contributing but isnt really. and that its just as likely mister helpful is scum, etc.


Your style has so far been laced with an air of giving advice to the other players - in what way is Bugs' post giving advice any different from, say, you warning that "players trying to give advice could be scum"?

ooh i forgot about that
Its different because its not all i've done
and because i know im town
and its not really different itself, but i was aware of the hypocrisy before i made teh post


I would to bring attention to this lovely post. N_T might be the BM version 2! I say this because of his spam, oneliners, and the fact he seems to be refreshing the thread every 5 minutes. When BM is mafia he always over emphasizes that he is confirmed town.

Such things are silly to say and provide no help to the town I will be setting my vote.

##Vote Nove_Terra

Based on his fliter, he seems to more interesting in proving his innocence then trying to find the Mafia.


Show nested quote +


Look at this link where N_T was mafia. Notice that he spams here.... and what is he doing this game?
...
...
Spam!


JubJub 2:

Show nested quote +
On March 23 2012 14:04 Katina wrote:
DoctorHelvetica is mafia

This is because throughout the game he has been inconsistent in his posting.He doesn't seem to have a focus at all. DrH has done a massive amount of finger pointing. His posts consist of spamming and calling people retards.

DrH is inconsistent and pointing fingers a lot. Take a look at this post:
On March 12 2012 07:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Caller is trolling, mafia shouldn't be that scared of me to push me day 1 for no reason because I often back off my correct reads if I get distracted.

It's up to an individuals discretion whether or not they share who they are PMing with, policy lynching someone for not doing it is stupid. Also, town circles could be set up so that somebody can claim DT to someone they confirm and then use that person to broadcast their reads, or a tracker/watcher/etc. That can be useful. In that case the last thing you want is everyone saying who they are with.

Jackal58 is being a bit silly with what Wiggles and people like that are saying. His point is that scum know who town is and because of that they can cut down any circles that arise that they aren't directly involved in themselves. Especially it would be dangerous for someone to say "i'm pming with A B C and D" and then later come out and say "I'm PMing the DT and..." when say, B and C are dead or something. It's up to an individual to share their PM targets or not.

Gumshoe is posting a lot and very focused on town circles and such. For that reason, I'm voting for him. He has 2 pages of filter all completely disconnected from finding scum. The way you're probing Caller looks as though it would be helpful, but doesn't actually lead to anything. It's wishy washy, I feel like it's the kind of thing that scum would feel they can't ignore but don't want to commit to Caller if he's town. That'll satisfy me for now, it's pretty likely I'll come up with something better or that Gumshoe will just make himself look worse

The last paragraph is important here. He says gumshow is suspicious and is going to vote for him. Yet 8 hours later he makes this post:
On March 12 2012 15:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On March 12 2012 15:03 Bill Murray wrote:
@doctorh, what are the reasons you like from curu? I'm catching up, and I value your opinion. That is also why I am sort of sheeping you. You saw what I saw out of gumshoe, switched when that wagon wasn't going anywhere for some reason, and probably found a good one here.

I remember Caller's posting earlier on in the day being suspect. He came in like a bull, china flying everywhere, and the broken glass and debris are making it easy to see a case on him being valid.

tl;dr: catching up, asking questions, can see caller being scum


Caller came in trolling then made his case when there was light pressure and it seems forced. I'm not totally sold on him at the moment because I feel like this is pretty much in line with the way he always acts but Curu does make a better case. I still think Caller is a better lynch than Jackal but I'm not confident enough to push it.

Caller's case is based on, from what I can tell, misunderstanding of jackals post and then overstating the significance of it. Curu has a meta read that is at least accurate. Jaybrundage is one of those players who seems to me to be participating only in the surface discussion and making little effort to figure out what peoples motives are or hunt scum. His last few posts speak for themselves really. His confidence is a little bit out of place for a newer scum player though.

I'm torn between Caller and jaybrundage right now. I'd be on prplhz in an instant if his logic wasn't equally terrible last time I played with him.

I'm waiting for Pandain to come into play, he's awful so I'll know right away if he's scum or not.

And now his focused has shifted to Caller and jaybrundage. And this is where his focused stayed for all of another 12 hours until he posts this:
On March 13 2012 05:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
How does Caller thinking a scum would defend another scum make him scum? Maybe I'm not following your logic.

Jackal, roleclaiming was unnecessary. If there is no claim to the contrary I'll believe you. Dreamflower is a pretty specific role and I doubt there is more than one in this game as opposed to something like medic or veteran.

We need to reconsider the business surrounding prplhz. His play is poor but it's not particularly scummy and the attempt to pin someone as scum for making a similar case around the same timeframe is ridiculous and comes off to me as a hamfisted attempt by scum to start a bandwagon. The fact that it took makes me even more sure it's scum originated or backed.

Wiggles is the first to jump on it, doing nothing in the game besides talk about mechanics/town strategy (at great length) until this point I'm surprised his first attempt at hunting scum is so forced and illogical. The fact that prplhz made a case near the same time period is inconclusive, might perhaps implicate that he is town talking to curu or caller in PM but hardly mafiaesque.

Jitsu is the only one who voted for him and he's already been in the hotseat. This is the most alarming event in this thread to me. The Caller vs VE deal is really coming off to me like an ensuing tragedy of townie vs townie.

And now he's dealing with Jackal and Wiggles and Jitsu.

What is interesting is how quickly DrH jumps from one case to the next. He accuses and votes for gumshoe, yet never brings up the case again except where he says he's changing his vote. He moves his vote to Caller at one point before finalizing on Jitsu.

Part of the problem here is that he never follows up on his reads. From here on out all he has are one liners and random posts, there is nothing more about his reads until he makes the following post:
On March 14 2012 09:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Node is suspicious. I'm leaning toward Node or Caller on day 2. I know Caller is a ballsy player but he comes off as way too phony. He makes a fake case on me then ditches it for a bad case on Jackal then goes back to attacking me? He's just playing disruptively.

Node's vote switch to Sheth is a joke. Not only was Jackal not gonna get lynched but I refuse to believe by the way he was posting that he put so little thought into the game as to waste a vote on somebody completely random (the only one that actually had excusable inactivity) like Sheth.


This post came near the end of night 1 as well. Suddenly there is no more attention on Jitsu. He moves away from it just like he did with gumshoe. He makes the occasional one liner about him being mafia, but never pushes his case ever again.

And on Day 2 he makes this post
On March 15 2012 08:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Kurumi is indefenseable at this point.

jaybrundage, you play like scummy shit all game then start demanding role claims from everyone. Stop doing that. If you're town, it's stupid and unhelpful.

With Kurumi gone, we need to shoot prplhz tonight or lynch him tomorrow. He's been on Jackal and didn't react to Jackal's claim but despite this obvious fakery from Kurumi, he chooses to ignore it then go after me. He is aggressive then immediately backs off and acts like he was just messin around. What a joke.

Curu straight up lies about things I say, he at least has the good sense to vote for Kurumi.

I'm not pushing Caller anymore, his claim seems to be legit and like I said I lost some confidence in him as the day went on and moved toward Jitsu (who is also misrepresenting me). It isn't scummy for a player to change their mind and it isn't my priority to tell the town about every change of thought or thing I think, otherwise I'd end up spamming the thread. If you're that interested in my thought process, just PM me, I'm not going to clutter the thread with that shit.

kurumi, prplhz, curu that's my best guess. Abenson, rgTheSchworz, Sentinel, probably scum or traitor between those 3. Dunno about Palmar. His play seems pro-town but I know he's good. If he's town this game is probably in the bag, if it's scum it's over since it seems a town circle has been built around him.

Nobody has PM'd me in this game yet, which surprises me a little.

and Jitsu isn't even on his mafia list. Furthermore he only lists Curu as scum because Curu was being a JubJub. DrH should know better than most that idiocy =/= Mafia. Yet he puts Curu on his mafia list, but removes him later on the account that Curu started making more sense.

DrH is known to second guess himself more than anyone else. He even admits to it. The problem is is that he is not second guessing himself. He makes a case against someone, then immediately drops it and never returns to it. He simply has no focus. His agenda is in correspondence with a mafia. He accuses lots of people to insinuate the doubt. He tries to make everyone look bad so nobody is in the clear. Then when a mafia gets lynched he can immediately defend himself by saying he was onto them.

Someone said that DrH pushed for the Kurumi lynch so therefore he is in the clear. However if you observe the day 2 votes you will notice that it's very likely the mafia team was on Kurumi the whole time. Bill Murray has gotten a town check, the only remaining players not on Kurumi are myself and EchelonTee. So he is not immediately in the clear because of the Kurumi lynch. In fact the majority of his posts about Kurumi entail things like this post:

On March 16 2012 04:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
This thread is in fucking chaos and if this keeps up we will continue having no lynches for the rest of the game. Is everyone this terrible? I can't believe Kurumi is actually going to get away with straight up faking his role and doing nothing but trolling and trying to find the traitor all game.

I also can't believe that Curu making shit up to try to get Jackal killed and him and his scumbuddy prplhz trying to get a town suicide vig to shoot at night (benefits scum) ONLY seems odd to me. This is far and away the most embarrassing town performance I've ever seen.

You're an idiot if you don't vote for Kurumi. Caller is saying to vote for me because I flip flop and "only talk about the set-up". That's a bald faced lie, the majority of my posts are about scum or pressure and I'm WELL KNOWN to flip-flop and second guess myself constantly as town such as in AC where I changed my vote like ten times in the first day. In fact, if anything, the fact that I haven't changed my vote a million times makes me look bad. I don't even know what Katina is doing but she has no sense of meta and seems to be completely missing the obvious.

Caller is the dayvig, he confirmed it as far as I can tell so unless he somehow faked shooting Node, why would anyone vote for him? Scum have their powers in that KP cost thing it says so in the setup ...

So what Kurumi did is too scummy to be scummy? Congratulations, you've failed the most basic fucking trap of bad townie logic now never sign up for another game again you retarded jubjubs

His posts about Kurumi are much like this one: "vote Kurumi or else you retard!" His only reason for voting Kurumi is that Kurumi scum slipped. No analysis or anything. Vote Kurumi or you're retarded. If this is what scumhunting is than Palmar should be the reigning champion.

Even more proof of his inconsistency can be found if you click his filter and search for my name. Multiple times he lists me as mafia yet he has never hard pushed for me or giving reasons why I need to be lynched. In one post he says, "katina has called me out for stupid reasons but I'm not saying she looks like shit for "tunneling a townie" because my alignment isn't confirmed." This is interesting because when I first accused him he agreed with the arguments that I was making. He even acknowledged that he was jumping all over the place on his reads. As I said before, he's not second guessing himself. He is mafia and is casting doubt upon all the players. He has done a fabulous job of accusing everyone so when someone flips mafia he can say that he was suspicious of said person. Even if he was on Caller and Kurumi, he hasn't done anything recently besides cast more doubt on the remaining players. He has pushed for Jay to get lynched, but the majority of his accusations can be summarized with "Jay is retarded, let's kill him".

This leads into the obvious fact that DrH is acting nothing like he does when he is town. This is evident from his past games. Look at one of his posts from Storm Mafia:
On February 23 2012 09:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I didn't sheep anybody. I made my case on BC well before I even read syllogisms original post. You're connecting points I'm making in specific reference to other peoples posts to unrelated ideas. I was trying to illustrate that the wagon forming quickly doesn't mean much. The scum don't need to defend redFF if they can get somebody else lynched.

I don't think my posts are wishy washy. I wasn't yelling in the thread for one person to get lynched over any other, but that can't really be defined as wishy washiness. I wasn't planning on rebutting the case on redFF because I never ever thought it needed to be rebutted. I voted for redFF in the end. I moved my vote to BC to put pressure on him and make sure he stays active in the thread, his responses satisfied me enough that I wanted to stick with my original convictions and give BC Day 2 to prove himself. Needless to say I'll be keeping a close eye on him.

Calling BC the alternative lynch is a non-point since his flip, or lack thereof, was inconclusive. You don't know whether or not he is scum, unless you are scum, so implying that it is a defensive alternative makes no sense as town especially considering redFF is the person I voted for.

I never called RedFF not scum. I never called him 100% scum. I said very clearly RedFF is likely scum or terrible town but his claim is poorly done and seems defensive. I was more than okay with the RedFF lynch, which seemed so likely to go through at the time I switched to BC to pressure another player I was suspicious of. Seeing as RedFF has been AWOL during this entire period, I feel I made the right choice. If I didn't think RedFF was very suspect, I would have been far more vocal in trying to get people to join a BC bandwagon but you will notice I did no such thing as far as I can recall anyway. That's as much as I'll say in the interest of defending myself.


This redFF "flip", or whatever it is, is inconclusive and I don't feel it necessary to comment on it further. I'll read filters when I have the time.

Notice how he is very direct in explaining his actions about where his vote and suspicion lies. There isn't a single post he's made in this game that can be mirrored with a typical post from that game. He hasn't done any explaining this game. He only focuses on the present and fails to address his past behavior. And the few times people have brought up this fact his response has been "well I always second guess myself trolol" Put simply, he is not taking responsibility for his actions.

It's also interesting to note how calm and collected he has been in the past when he is town. The above post is typical in showing is behavior when analyzing and addressing issues. Of course we know him to have a temper from time to time, as we all do whenever we are in a game with VE. However this game he has done nothing but call people retarded over and over again. This attitude is a bit reminiscent of wherebugsgo when he is mafia. I can understand being frustrated with the game (considering I have Jay riding my ass constantly), but the level of his insults coming from DrH is not only out of character, but completely unnatural.

I would also like to mention that this game DrH has an absurd amount of one liners and small posts. A quick glance through Storm Mafia and Arkham City show that his posting length this game is also not in sync with his normal town play. When DrH is town, he is not afraid to write paragraphs upon paragraphs detailing his thoughts. This game we have one liners about how small our IQ is.


Summary
DrH has been playing completely out of character from his typical town play. He hasn't been focused, anormous finger pointing, one liners and insults. His posts have been inconsistent and bringing confusion into the thread. He has not been responsible this game and he needs to be held accountable for it.
DrH is mafia

##Vote DoctorHelvetica




In this game, when going after N_T Katina displays a very odd use of meta - very different from the way she used in the past (LII: Jubjub Mafia where Katina fingers DocH based on meta with a clear difference between his town and mafia styles (when DocH is town his posting is much longer and doesn't attack other people)). Compare that to this game, where Katina uses meta against Nova_Terra (Nova_Terra is scum because he spams as mafia. Yet he does this both as town and mafia...) That's not a logical argument at all. Also everyone should look at the cases that Katina makes in that game and compare that to this game; there's a clear level of depth that's missing from anything she has posted here.

This Game:

Show nested quote +
On May 27 2012 02:34 Katina wrote:
Okay first of all, I'm really tired of people (WBG) assuming I'm mafia because of my Meta I have said myself I have been busy. Stuff kept coming up this week, that's what happens when you have a "Life". I am sorry I couldn't be more active.

Secondly the two people I have been gunning for (N_T and Mattchew) are doing nothing but constantly bashing me. N_T is so focused on getting me lynched he is completely distracting himself from the forum. Mattchew is butt hurt because I got him to crack and stop using his quotes.

Third, I realize that Zealos claimed. I was fine lynching him as I stated in one of my posts before that. So me voting for someone I thought was scummy is considered Mafia? I love the logic behind that.

I apologize for not spewing out random votes and cluttering up the thread like a lot of you do. Everyone is so focused on me for stupid reasons when there are so many scummier people.


Liar Game:

Show nested quote +
On May 16 2012 07:26 Katina wrote:
On May 16 2012 03:04 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On May 16 2012 00:10 Katina wrote:
On May 15 2012 07:35 slOosh wrote:
Katina are you calling Meapak scum? Or misguided? How about prplhz?

Not really. His reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't actually think he's mafia but then again I have no idea who could be on Palmar's team other than Wiggles.

Katina I'm sick of you half assing this game. Put in some goddamn effort and give us some ACTUAL reasons. I don't know, maybe write an analysis, maybe have more of a thread presence, maybe PM people and at least pretend like you're interested.

After the cephiro flip I blew up all my reads and started over again and let me say this katina, it's foolishness's insistence that you're town which is preventing me right now from putting you in the majority and lynching you this cycle. Play the game.

I have been sir.

I do not mean to overstep your pride here. Let me say again that your reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't say this in an accusatory way; it's the truth. I don't think you are mafia, but as I said I don't know who the last member on Palmar's team is (I think Wiggles is one of them).

You said that Palmar is innocent because he has had the same reads as you from the start. That does not indicate anything about alignment. Palmar has wanted to kill sandroba and Cephiro (these are the two you listed). But everyone wants to kill those two. Also it makes the most sense that sandroba is the last member of BC's team. So Palmar isn't bussing one of his teammates.

The most incriminating piece of evidence is that Palmar was virtually derping when syllogism was alive. That's cause syllogism was hard core pushing his innocence especially in PMs. I know Foolishness and wherebugsgo were both suspicious of Palmar but syllogism made it hard for them to push that read. That and there were more important targets at the time. If you look through Palmar's post history you will see he was most active day 1 and then in the previous days since syllogism's death. Palmar was using syllogism as an excuse to not do anything. With syllogism constantly pushing his innocence he did not have to try at all, either in the thread or PM. He has only stepped up his posting since syllogism died, whether he's stepped up in PM land or not I don't know.

Even if you want to start pointing guns at me, you still need to explain why Palmar deserves a free pass. Cause this isn't about me, it's about Palmar. And like I said at least one person out of you, me, and Palmar has to be mafia. Unless you're going to claim mafia I'm not stopping until Palmar is dead.



When attacked in previous games (for example Liar Game) Katina typically brings forth new thoughts and reads (She's very eager to elaborate her reads on Palmar and address the issues that other people bring up). In this game though, Katina just says that she was busy and repeats the same arguments that she's been giving the entire game without analyzing anything new.

With such a big difference between her town play and her play this game and a general lack of good posting and reads, I think Katina is almost definitely scum.


A fairly long well thought through post, making valid points based on meta across several games and applying them to the current game. Except it's scum Hiro making this post.

Looking through his town games, they are more categorised by shorter posts, where ultimately Hiro is more involved in what's going on than he is here.

I believe HiroPro is scum

Seriously, that's your filter. If you want to discuss what you said about HiroPro, fine. But what you said was "leaning town" --> "dont' want to lynch him, but please write up a case because I agree on the weak presence" (to Palmar) --> "I believe HiroPro is scum"

I will respond to the actual last post on HiroPro, I read it but I'll work through my own thoughts now. Just...look at that progression. You haven't been hammering on HiroPro. Your read went from townie to townie but I agree on weak presence to scum. And your entire Hiro argument SEEMS to be "I thought hiro was town because he was active, now I think he's lazy town and must be scum because he's active." Can you give more robust thoughts on Hiro, because I'll discuss what you've said but it ain't much.


Yes, I meant specifically the last post. I don't know what else to say because I explained in that post why I shifted my reasoning. I had believed the effort he went to to search through previous games to make good meta arguments meant he was making good effort, which tends towards a townie read.

Effectively, my read previously had been taking this game in isolation, and earlier I went back and went back and looked through a bunch of Hiro's games. That's why I posted that post from Mini Magic, and commented on his other town games.

I'm just rehashing in longer version what I said in that post there. There aren't really that many 'robust' thoughts to give other than what I said. I said ealrier, as you mention that he seemed disconnected/weak presence, and going back through his games, it contradicts his meta.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 16:01 GMT
#1034
Nor is the reasoning for the change weak, austin. Not in the slightest.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 16:16 GMT
#1043
On September 22 2012 01:10 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 01:00 marvellosity wrote:
On September 22 2012 00:54 austinmcc wrote:

However, I'll go look at hiropro. But...you haven't been as vocal on him as you think? Heres you on Hiro the last 20 hours or so...
On September 21 2012 05:24 marvellosity wrote:
Hiro I'm leaning town on now. In his massive post whenever it was he brought up a load of well thought out points, including analysis and quotes from other games, such as prplhz sheeping Palmar, and my tendency to believe the scummy things I do point towards me being town. I also liked his assessment on how you were appearing apologetic. Basically I'm leaning town on him because many of his thoughts have been unique this game and I like the way he thinks and agree with it much of the time. The thing that stops me giving a firm read of town is that he's still more... detached from the thread than he might be.

On September 21 2012 05:38 marvellosity wrote:
he didn't 'explain' anything on his 2nd highest scumread, HiroPro.

On September 21 2012 06:43 marvellosity wrote:
On September 21 2012 06:42 Palmar wrote:
HiroPro.

Would you agree on lynching him?

I don't have the time to write up a case now, but because mostly of weak presence and strange things I've noticed about him.


No, I don't want to lynch HiroPro for reasons I elaborated on shortly before the deadline.

I do agree with you about the weak presence, though. Please write up a case as soon as you can this cycle as for obvious reasons it will affect my read on you.

On September 21 2012 21:55 marvellosity wrote:
I haven't got more to say on Ange right now, so I'd like to talk about HiroPro a bit. Earlier I've been leaning town because I was impressed with his diligence and his arguments based on going back and finding meta from previous games, which seemed 'townie for effort'. I'm pretty much reversing that read now.

Actually Hiro as town is more categorised by laziness. His last scum game was a while ago (magic mini normal), but looking through his filter there I found this:

+ Show Spoiler +
On May 27 2012 07:00 HiroPro wrote:
Katina:

Katina has hardly been posting in this game and when she does, she's maintained a singular focus on N_T and Matt.

Show nested quote +
On May 22 2012 07:25 Katina wrote:
On May 22 2012 05:52 froggynoddy wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 22 2012 05:29 Tunkeg wrote:
Reads d1 of Day1

Acrofalis/Marvellosity:
Leaning town based on Acrofalis aggression while he was in game. He tried to get this game going, and tried to apply some pressure.

EchelonTee:
Leaning town. He went into a fight with Acrofalis from the get go, and haven't been afraid to stick his head out.

Zealos
Get some scumvibes off him. He started the game by voting VE as number two, without a good reason. He claims it to be a joke later (which it might be). He then proceeds to vote Acrofales based on ET's case, and because of meta, basicly sheeping ET. The rest of his filter seems very empty, even though he got more post than most in this game. Some townpoints for actually bother to answer questions.

Mattchew
He might be one of those I called out for not posting earlier, that is a scum. I don't know what he is trying to do, but if his postingstyle continues this way he will be disruptive townie at best, and sabotaging scum at worst. Leaning scum for now.

Nova_Terra
Leaning scum. He was active at the start, but unlike Acrofalis his attempts at pushing seems more forced, and with no real weight behind it. His whole postingstyle seems very non-commital and gives me scumvibes.

Also Navillus need to get in the thread and do some more. His vote on WBG is the only thing he have done. And it was done without much reasoning, and in my opinion strange reasoning.


PS: I know you guys don't like list. But I want to do lists so bare with me.

PS 2: This is not an analysis post. It is a read post. When I am ready to put my vote down on someone I will try to make a good case/analysis on them. Exception is if there is a great case on them that I agree with, then I will be open about sheeping it, and probably just add some of my own reasoning to it.



This list... serves no purpose other than making you look active. Town reads are worse than useless day 1 as 1. they are even weaker than day 1 scumreads and 2. points to scum who to kill to cause confusion.

EDIT: There was more but WBG and Navillus covered it whilst I was writing

+ Show Spoiler +
On May 22 2012 05:37 Navillus wrote:
Okaaay so my WBG vote was a joke, I do not actually think it's a good idea to lynch one of our 2 vets on that basis alone and I am not really of the opinion that advice is an automatic scum-tell, it'd be nice to have a little benefit of the doubt on me not being an idiot.

Next ##Unvote
##Vote: Mattchew


As far as I can tell he's just posting with flavor text from mtg cards, if that continues I don't really care if he's scum or town it makes him impossible to read, doesn't let him contribute, and makes for a really shitty atmosphere. Mattchew stop it.

On N_T yes VE and WBG I'd say he's using pretty bad method of scumhunting/analysis and his vote is for a dumb reason, but that doesn't make him scum and aside from clear-cut examples of someone being useless or disruptive (such as restricting their posts to text from a card game) it's a bad idea to lynch someone for bad play, in my experience it's rarely a scumtell and depending on how they're playing badly it can be more of a town tell.

Tunkeg you asked a bunch of questions earlier, most of them were ignored, was there any point to them? Why don't you care that people didn't answer you/why aren't you following up? Also why post that list, if you have scum reads why aren't you just pressuring them instead of telling them, and how does telling everyone your town-reads do anything but let scum know who you think is townie and so light them up as targets?

Holy spam batman! NT scum or town please stop with multiple one or two line posts in a row, it's distracting and makes the thread harder to read through, consolidate.


How is voting for Mattchew due to his posting style (which you consider to be *Bad*) different to voting N_T based on bad play?

I don't necessarily disagree with you I just think you're being a little inconsistent. Shoot I forgot to unvote as promised:

##Unvote
##Vote Katina


Inactive players kill town. Katina, my vote stays on you until you make an appearance.


I made an apperance earlier today. Do you not read over the thread my dear?

On May 22 2012 03:27 Nova_Terra wrote:
On May 22 2012 02:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
On May 21 2012 21:17 Nova_Terra wrote:
Hey VE since you seem to want to ignore my challenge who do you wanna kill


Hey Nova, since you seem to want to ignore my question to you (something that's actually USEFUL to this game, unlike your "challenge"), how about you actually answer it instead of trying to distract town with meaningless drivel? I'll even repost it for your convenience.

On May 21 2012 08:56 VisceraEyes wrote:
On May 21 2012 05:59 Nova_Terra wrote:
On May 21 2012 05:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
Whether or not advice is good has nothing to do with the alignment of a player, just the same as making a plan, regardless of how good it is, is generally not indicative of alignment.

If the advice makes sense, follow it. If not, don't. The question of "is this guy scum" has nothing to do with that.

I never said that it has anything to do with indicacating the alignment of the player,i said that general advice seems to be contributing but isnt really. and that its just as likely mister helpful is scum, etc.


Your style has so far been laced with an air of giving advice to the other players - in what way is Bugs' post giving advice any different from, say, you warning that "players trying to give advice could be scum"?

ooh i forgot about that
Its different because its not all i've done
and because i know im town
and its not really different itself, but i was aware of the hypocrisy before i made teh post


I would to bring attention to this lovely post. N_T might be the BM version 2! I say this because of his spam, oneliners, and the fact he seems to be refreshing the thread every 5 minutes. When BM is mafia he always over emphasizes that he is confirmed town.

Such things are silly to say and provide no help to the town I will be setting my vote.

##Vote Nove_Terra

Based on his fliter, he seems to more interesting in proving his innocence then trying to find the Mafia.


Show nested quote +


Look at this link where N_T was mafia. Notice that he spams here.... and what is he doing this game?
...
...
Spam!


JubJub 2:

Show nested quote +
On March 23 2012 14:04 Katina wrote:
DoctorHelvetica is mafia

This is because throughout the game he has been inconsistent in his posting.He doesn't seem to have a focus at all. DrH has done a massive amount of finger pointing. His posts consist of spamming and calling people retards.

DrH is inconsistent and pointing fingers a lot. Take a look at this post:
On March 12 2012 07:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Caller is trolling, mafia shouldn't be that scared of me to push me day 1 for no reason because I often back off my correct reads if I get distracted.

It's up to an individuals discretion whether or not they share who they are PMing with, policy lynching someone for not doing it is stupid. Also, town circles could be set up so that somebody can claim DT to someone they confirm and then use that person to broadcast their reads, or a tracker/watcher/etc. That can be useful. In that case the last thing you want is everyone saying who they are with.

Jackal58 is being a bit silly with what Wiggles and people like that are saying. His point is that scum know who town is and because of that they can cut down any circles that arise that they aren't directly involved in themselves. Especially it would be dangerous for someone to say "i'm pming with A B C and D" and then later come out and say "I'm PMing the DT and..." when say, B and C are dead or something. It's up to an individual to share their PM targets or not.

Gumshoe is posting a lot and very focused on town circles and such. For that reason, I'm voting for him. He has 2 pages of filter all completely disconnected from finding scum. The way you're probing Caller looks as though it would be helpful, but doesn't actually lead to anything. It's wishy washy, I feel like it's the kind of thing that scum would feel they can't ignore but don't want to commit to Caller if he's town. That'll satisfy me for now, it's pretty likely I'll come up with something better or that Gumshoe will just make himself look worse

The last paragraph is important here. He says gumshow is suspicious and is going to vote for him. Yet 8 hours later he makes this post:
On March 12 2012 15:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On March 12 2012 15:03 Bill Murray wrote:
@doctorh, what are the reasons you like from curu? I'm catching up, and I value your opinion. That is also why I am sort of sheeping you. You saw what I saw out of gumshoe, switched when that wagon wasn't going anywhere for some reason, and probably found a good one here.

I remember Caller's posting earlier on in the day being suspect. He came in like a bull, china flying everywhere, and the broken glass and debris are making it easy to see a case on him being valid.

tl;dr: catching up, asking questions, can see caller being scum


Caller came in trolling then made his case when there was light pressure and it seems forced. I'm not totally sold on him at the moment because I feel like this is pretty much in line with the way he always acts but Curu does make a better case. I still think Caller is a better lynch than Jackal but I'm not confident enough to push it.

Caller's case is based on, from what I can tell, misunderstanding of jackals post and then overstating the significance of it. Curu has a meta read that is at least accurate. Jaybrundage is one of those players who seems to me to be participating only in the surface discussion and making little effort to figure out what peoples motives are or hunt scum. His last few posts speak for themselves really. His confidence is a little bit out of place for a newer scum player though.

I'm torn between Caller and jaybrundage right now. I'd be on prplhz in an instant if his logic wasn't equally terrible last time I played with him.

I'm waiting for Pandain to come into play, he's awful so I'll know right away if he's scum or not.

And now his focused has shifted to Caller and jaybrundage. And this is where his focused stayed for all of another 12 hours until he posts this:
On March 13 2012 05:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
How does Caller thinking a scum would defend another scum make him scum? Maybe I'm not following your logic.

Jackal, roleclaiming was unnecessary. If there is no claim to the contrary I'll believe you. Dreamflower is a pretty specific role and I doubt there is more than one in this game as opposed to something like medic or veteran.

We need to reconsider the business surrounding prplhz. His play is poor but it's not particularly scummy and the attempt to pin someone as scum for making a similar case around the same timeframe is ridiculous and comes off to me as a hamfisted attempt by scum to start a bandwagon. The fact that it took makes me even more sure it's scum originated or backed.

Wiggles is the first to jump on it, doing nothing in the game besides talk about mechanics/town strategy (at great length) until this point I'm surprised his first attempt at hunting scum is so forced and illogical. The fact that prplhz made a case near the same time period is inconclusive, might perhaps implicate that he is town talking to curu or caller in PM but hardly mafiaesque.

Jitsu is the only one who voted for him and he's already been in the hotseat. This is the most alarming event in this thread to me. The Caller vs VE deal is really coming off to me like an ensuing tragedy of townie vs townie.

And now he's dealing with Jackal and Wiggles and Jitsu.

What is interesting is how quickly DrH jumps from one case to the next. He accuses and votes for gumshoe, yet never brings up the case again except where he says he's changing his vote. He moves his vote to Caller at one point before finalizing on Jitsu.

Part of the problem here is that he never follows up on his reads. From here on out all he has are one liners and random posts, there is nothing more about his reads until he makes the following post:
On March 14 2012 09:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Node is suspicious. I'm leaning toward Node or Caller on day 2. I know Caller is a ballsy player but he comes off as way too phony. He makes a fake case on me then ditches it for a bad case on Jackal then goes back to attacking me? He's just playing disruptively.

Node's vote switch to Sheth is a joke. Not only was Jackal not gonna get lynched but I refuse to believe by the way he was posting that he put so little thought into the game as to waste a vote on somebody completely random (the only one that actually had excusable inactivity) like Sheth.


This post came near the end of night 1 as well. Suddenly there is no more attention on Jitsu. He moves away from it just like he did with gumshoe. He makes the occasional one liner about him being mafia, but never pushes his case ever again.

And on Day 2 he makes this post
On March 15 2012 08:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Kurumi is indefenseable at this point.

jaybrundage, you play like scummy shit all game then start demanding role claims from everyone. Stop doing that. If you're town, it's stupid and unhelpful.

With Kurumi gone, we need to shoot prplhz tonight or lynch him tomorrow. He's been on Jackal and didn't react to Jackal's claim but despite this obvious fakery from Kurumi, he chooses to ignore it then go after me. He is aggressive then immediately backs off and acts like he was just messin around. What a joke.

Curu straight up lies about things I say, he at least has the good sense to vote for Kurumi.

I'm not pushing Caller anymore, his claim seems to be legit and like I said I lost some confidence in him as the day went on and moved toward Jitsu (who is also misrepresenting me). It isn't scummy for a player to change their mind and it isn't my priority to tell the town about every change of thought or thing I think, otherwise I'd end up spamming the thread. If you're that interested in my thought process, just PM me, I'm not going to clutter the thread with that shit.

kurumi, prplhz, curu that's my best guess. Abenson, rgTheSchworz, Sentinel, probably scum or traitor between those 3. Dunno about Palmar. His play seems pro-town but I know he's good. If he's town this game is probably in the bag, if it's scum it's over since it seems a town circle has been built around him.

Nobody has PM'd me in this game yet, which surprises me a little.

and Jitsu isn't even on his mafia list. Furthermore he only lists Curu as scum because Curu was being a JubJub. DrH should know better than most that idiocy =/= Mafia. Yet he puts Curu on his mafia list, but removes him later on the account that Curu started making more sense.

DrH is known to second guess himself more than anyone else. He even admits to it. The problem is is that he is not second guessing himself. He makes a case against someone, then immediately drops it and never returns to it. He simply has no focus. His agenda is in correspondence with a mafia. He accuses lots of people to insinuate the doubt. He tries to make everyone look bad so nobody is in the clear. Then when a mafia gets lynched he can immediately defend himself by saying he was onto them.

Someone said that DrH pushed for the Kurumi lynch so therefore he is in the clear. However if you observe the day 2 votes you will notice that it's very likely the mafia team was on Kurumi the whole time. Bill Murray has gotten a town check, the only remaining players not on Kurumi are myself and EchelonTee. So he is not immediately in the clear because of the Kurumi lynch. In fact the majority of his posts about Kurumi entail things like this post:

On March 16 2012 04:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
This thread is in fucking chaos and if this keeps up we will continue having no lynches for the rest of the game. Is everyone this terrible? I can't believe Kurumi is actually going to get away with straight up faking his role and doing nothing but trolling and trying to find the traitor all game.

I also can't believe that Curu making shit up to try to get Jackal killed and him and his scumbuddy prplhz trying to get a town suicide vig to shoot at night (benefits scum) ONLY seems odd to me. This is far and away the most embarrassing town performance I've ever seen.

You're an idiot if you don't vote for Kurumi. Caller is saying to vote for me because I flip flop and "only talk about the set-up". That's a bald faced lie, the majority of my posts are about scum or pressure and I'm WELL KNOWN to flip-flop and second guess myself constantly as town such as in AC where I changed my vote like ten times in the first day. In fact, if anything, the fact that I haven't changed my vote a million times makes me look bad. I don't even know what Katina is doing but she has no sense of meta and seems to be completely missing the obvious.

Caller is the dayvig, he confirmed it as far as I can tell so unless he somehow faked shooting Node, why would anyone vote for him? Scum have their powers in that KP cost thing it says so in the setup ...

So what Kurumi did is too scummy to be scummy? Congratulations, you've failed the most basic fucking trap of bad townie logic now never sign up for another game again you retarded jubjubs

His posts about Kurumi are much like this one: "vote Kurumi or else you retard!" His only reason for voting Kurumi is that Kurumi scum slipped. No analysis or anything. Vote Kurumi or you're retarded. If this is what scumhunting is than Palmar should be the reigning champion.

Even more proof of his inconsistency can be found if you click his filter and search for my name. Multiple times he lists me as mafia yet he has never hard pushed for me or giving reasons why I need to be lynched. In one post he says, "katina has called me out for stupid reasons but I'm not saying she looks like shit for "tunneling a townie" because my alignment isn't confirmed." This is interesting because when I first accused him he agreed with the arguments that I was making. He even acknowledged that he was jumping all over the place on his reads. As I said before, he's not second guessing himself. He is mafia and is casting doubt upon all the players. He has done a fabulous job of accusing everyone so when someone flips mafia he can say that he was suspicious of said person. Even if he was on Caller and Kurumi, he hasn't done anything recently besides cast more doubt on the remaining players. He has pushed for Jay to get lynched, but the majority of his accusations can be summarized with "Jay is retarded, let's kill him".

This leads into the obvious fact that DrH is acting nothing like he does when he is town. This is evident from his past games. Look at one of his posts from Storm Mafia:
On February 23 2012 09:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I didn't sheep anybody. I made my case on BC well before I even read syllogisms original post. You're connecting points I'm making in specific reference to other peoples posts to unrelated ideas. I was trying to illustrate that the wagon forming quickly doesn't mean much. The scum don't need to defend redFF if they can get somebody else lynched.

I don't think my posts are wishy washy. I wasn't yelling in the thread for one person to get lynched over any other, but that can't really be defined as wishy washiness. I wasn't planning on rebutting the case on redFF because I never ever thought it needed to be rebutted. I voted for redFF in the end. I moved my vote to BC to put pressure on him and make sure he stays active in the thread, his responses satisfied me enough that I wanted to stick with my original convictions and give BC Day 2 to prove himself. Needless to say I'll be keeping a close eye on him.

Calling BC the alternative lynch is a non-point since his flip, or lack thereof, was inconclusive. You don't know whether or not he is scum, unless you are scum, so implying that it is a defensive alternative makes no sense as town especially considering redFF is the person I voted for.

I never called RedFF not scum. I never called him 100% scum. I said very clearly RedFF is likely scum or terrible town but his claim is poorly done and seems defensive. I was more than okay with the RedFF lynch, which seemed so likely to go through at the time I switched to BC to pressure another player I was suspicious of. Seeing as RedFF has been AWOL during this entire period, I feel I made the right choice. If I didn't think RedFF was very suspect, I would have been far more vocal in trying to get people to join a BC bandwagon but you will notice I did no such thing as far as I can recall anyway. That's as much as I'll say in the interest of defending myself.


This redFF "flip", or whatever it is, is inconclusive and I don't feel it necessary to comment on it further. I'll read filters when I have the time.

Notice how he is very direct in explaining his actions about where his vote and suspicion lies. There isn't a single post he's made in this game that can be mirrored with a typical post from that game. He hasn't done any explaining this game. He only focuses on the present and fails to address his past behavior. And the few times people have brought up this fact his response has been "well I always second guess myself trolol" Put simply, he is not taking responsibility for his actions.

It's also interesting to note how calm and collected he has been in the past when he is town. The above post is typical in showing is behavior when analyzing and addressing issues. Of course we know him to have a temper from time to time, as we all do whenever we are in a game with VE. However this game he has done nothing but call people retarded over and over again. This attitude is a bit reminiscent of wherebugsgo when he is mafia. I can understand being frustrated with the game (considering I have Jay riding my ass constantly), but the level of his insults coming from DrH is not only out of character, but completely unnatural.

I would also like to mention that this game DrH has an absurd amount of one liners and small posts. A quick glance through Storm Mafia and Arkham City show that his posting length this game is also not in sync with his normal town play. When DrH is town, he is not afraid to write paragraphs upon paragraphs detailing his thoughts. This game we have one liners about how small our IQ is.


Summary
DrH has been playing completely out of character from his typical town play. He hasn't been focused, anormous finger pointing, one liners and insults. His posts have been inconsistent and bringing confusion into the thread. He has not been responsible this game and he needs to be held accountable for it.
DrH is mafia

##Vote DoctorHelvetica




In this game, when going after N_T Katina displays a very odd use of meta - very different from the way she used in the past (LII: Jubjub Mafia where Katina fingers DocH based on meta with a clear difference between his town and mafia styles (when DocH is town his posting is much longer and doesn't attack other people)). Compare that to this game, where Katina uses meta against Nova_Terra (Nova_Terra is scum because he spams as mafia. Yet he does this both as town and mafia...) That's not a logical argument at all. Also everyone should look at the cases that Katina makes in that game and compare that to this game; there's a clear level of depth that's missing from anything she has posted here.

This Game:

Show nested quote +
On May 27 2012 02:34 Katina wrote:
Okay first of all, I'm really tired of people (WBG) assuming I'm mafia because of my Meta I have said myself I have been busy. Stuff kept coming up this week, that's what happens when you have a "Life". I am sorry I couldn't be more active.

Secondly the two people I have been gunning for (N_T and Mattchew) are doing nothing but constantly bashing me. N_T is so focused on getting me lynched he is completely distracting himself from the forum. Mattchew is butt hurt because I got him to crack and stop using his quotes.

Third, I realize that Zealos claimed. I was fine lynching him as I stated in one of my posts before that. So me voting for someone I thought was scummy is considered Mafia? I love the logic behind that.

I apologize for not spewing out random votes and cluttering up the thread like a lot of you do. Everyone is so focused on me for stupid reasons when there are so many scummier people.


Liar Game:

Show nested quote +
On May 16 2012 07:26 Katina wrote:
On May 16 2012 03:04 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On May 16 2012 00:10 Katina wrote:
On May 15 2012 07:35 slOosh wrote:
Katina are you calling Meapak scum? Or misguided? How about prplhz?

Not really. His reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't actually think he's mafia but then again I have no idea who could be on Palmar's team other than Wiggles.

Katina I'm sick of you half assing this game. Put in some goddamn effort and give us some ACTUAL reasons. I don't know, maybe write an analysis, maybe have more of a thread presence, maybe PM people and at least pretend like you're interested.

After the cephiro flip I blew up all my reads and started over again and let me say this katina, it's foolishness's insistence that you're town which is preventing me right now from putting you in the majority and lynching you this cycle. Play the game.

I have been sir.

I do not mean to overstep your pride here. Let me say again that your reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't say this in an accusatory way; it's the truth. I don't think you are mafia, but as I said I don't know who the last member on Palmar's team is (I think Wiggles is one of them).

You said that Palmar is innocent because he has had the same reads as you from the start. That does not indicate anything about alignment. Palmar has wanted to kill sandroba and Cephiro (these are the two you listed). But everyone wants to kill those two. Also it makes the most sense that sandroba is the last member of BC's team. So Palmar isn't bussing one of his teammates.

The most incriminating piece of evidence is that Palmar was virtually derping when syllogism was alive. That's cause syllogism was hard core pushing his innocence especially in PMs. I know Foolishness and wherebugsgo were both suspicious of Palmar but syllogism made it hard for them to push that read. That and there were more important targets at the time. If you look through Palmar's post history you will see he was most active day 1 and then in the previous days since syllogism's death. Palmar was using syllogism as an excuse to not do anything. With syllogism constantly pushing his innocence he did not have to try at all, either in the thread or PM. He has only stepped up his posting since syllogism died, whether he's stepped up in PM land or not I don't know.

Even if you want to start pointing guns at me, you still need to explain why Palmar deserves a free pass. Cause this isn't about me, it's about Palmar. And like I said at least one person out of you, me, and Palmar has to be mafia. Unless you're going to claim mafia I'm not stopping until Palmar is dead.



When attacked in previous games (for example Liar Game) Katina typically brings forth new thoughts and reads (She's very eager to elaborate her reads on Palmar and address the issues that other people bring up). In this game though, Katina just says that she was busy and repeats the same arguments that she's been giving the entire game without analyzing anything new.

With such a big difference between her town play and her play this game and a general lack of good posting and reads, I think Katina is almost definitely scum.


A fairly long well thought through post, making valid points based on meta across several games and applying them to the current game. Except it's scum Hiro making this post.

Looking through his town games, they are more categorised by shorter posts, where ultimately Hiro is more involved in what's going on than he is here.

I believe HiroPro is scum

Seriously, that's your filter. If you want to discuss what you said about HiroPro, fine. But what you said was "leaning town" --> "dont' want to lynch him, but please write up a case because I agree on the weak presence" (to Palmar) --> "I believe HiroPro is scum"

I will respond to the actual last post on HiroPro, I read it but I'll work through my own thoughts now. Just...look at that progression. You haven't been hammering on HiroPro. Your read went from townie to townie but I agree on weak presence to scum. And your entire Hiro argument SEEMS to be "I thought hiro was town because he was active, now I think he's lazy town and must be scum because he's active." Can you give more robust thoughts on Hiro, because I'll discuss what you've said but it ain't much.


Yes, I meant specifically the last post. I don't know what else to say because I explained in that post why I shifted my reasoning. I had believed the effort he went to to search through previous games to make good meta arguments meant he was making good effort, which tends towards a townie read.

Effectively, my read previously had been taking this game in isolation, and earlier I went back and went back and looked through a bunch of Hiro's games. That's why I posted that post from Mini Magic, and commented on his other town games.

I'm just rehashing in longer version what I said in that post there. There aren't really that many 'robust' thoughts to give other than what I said. I said ealrier, as you mention that he seemed disconnected/weak presence, and going back through his games, it contradicts his meta.

I guess...when I read that post, what I get is you saying
  • I was leaning Hiro because of "diligence" and "his arguments based on going back and finding meta" --> Hiro for effort
  • I am now reversing that read, because Hiro is lazy and Hiro makes longer posts concerning meta
  • I will now link one long post in which Hiro discussed Katina and her meta
  • That post came from Hiro
  • Looking at other games, Hiro posts short posts and is "more involved" than he is here



I dislike that post and I almost just throw it out. You looked at Hiro's past games. You gave us ONE quote from ONE game, and a blanket statement that Hiro in other games posts shorter and is more involved. Which is fine, but just understand that there's not really too much there other than some assertions about Hiro's meta that are almost certainly true, but based on size of posts.

One reason you found Hiro townie eariler was his "well thought out points" and that his "thoughts have been unique this game and [you] like the way he thinks and agree with it much of the time." Does that still hold true? Does his meta trump that? I'd be more convinced by what's happening in game than a meta argument based on short/long posts and involvement. I don't see anything in that post about whether scum Hiro's points are well thought out, or about how you agree with scum Hiro's points but not town Hiro's points.

Do you really want to lynch Hiro based on being disconnected and posting long posts? I know you are voting Ange, but are you scummy enough on Hiro because of the meta read that you have that you want to lynch him, despite liking the way he's thought and the points he's made?


Frankly, yes. His only scum game that wasn't his newbie game was that Magic Mini game. That was the only game of the others that I looked at that he used meta examples from across various games in a post of his. Actually in the post I quoted, he was bussing Katina (who, in that game, I thought correctly was scum on meta) and his points were all valid.

It's not that I disagree with townie Hiro points, but they are rarely as... carefully constructed as his posts here were. It reminds me of Bureaucracy a bit, where slOosh made several outwardly excellent posts, but he was 'disconnected' from the thread. I could dig up my post where I said that if you really wanted.

Other than that there's not a lot to do other than say "why don't you have a look at the games for yourself?". HiroPro is typically more involved in the thread as town, but it's pretty hard just to pull random snippets from other games that show this.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 16:28 GMT
#1046
On September 22 2012 01:26 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 01:16 marvellosity wrote:
On September 22 2012 01:10 austinmcc wrote:
On September 22 2012 01:00 marvellosity wrote:
On September 22 2012 00:54 austinmcc wrote:

However, I'll go look at hiropro. But...you haven't been as vocal on him as you think? Heres you on Hiro the last 20 hours or so...
On September 21 2012 05:24 marvellosity wrote:
Hiro I'm leaning town on now. In his massive post whenever it was he brought up a load of well thought out points, including analysis and quotes from other games, such as prplhz sheeping Palmar, and my tendency to believe the scummy things I do point towards me being town. I also liked his assessment on how you were appearing apologetic. Basically I'm leaning town on him because many of his thoughts have been unique this game and I like the way he thinks and agree with it much of the time. The thing that stops me giving a firm read of town is that he's still more... detached from the thread than he might be.

On September 21 2012 05:38 marvellosity wrote:
he didn't 'explain' anything on his 2nd highest scumread, HiroPro.

On September 21 2012 06:43 marvellosity wrote:
On September 21 2012 06:42 Palmar wrote:
HiroPro.

Would you agree on lynching him?

I don't have the time to write up a case now, but because mostly of weak presence and strange things I've noticed about him.


No, I don't want to lynch HiroPro for reasons I elaborated on shortly before the deadline.

I do agree with you about the weak presence, though. Please write up a case as soon as you can this cycle as for obvious reasons it will affect my read on you.

On September 21 2012 21:55 marvellosity wrote:
I haven't got more to say on Ange right now, so I'd like to talk about HiroPro a bit. Earlier I've been leaning town because I was impressed with his diligence and his arguments based on going back and finding meta from previous games, which seemed 'townie for effort'. I'm pretty much reversing that read now.

Actually Hiro as town is more categorised by laziness. His last scum game was a while ago (magic mini normal), but looking through his filter there I found this:

+ Show Spoiler +
On May 27 2012 07:00 HiroPro wrote:
Katina:

Katina has hardly been posting in this game and when she does, she's maintained a singular focus on N_T and Matt.

Show nested quote +
On May 22 2012 07:25 Katina wrote:
On May 22 2012 05:52 froggynoddy wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 22 2012 05:29 Tunkeg wrote:
Reads d1 of Day1

Acrofalis/Marvellosity:
Leaning town based on Acrofalis aggression while he was in game. He tried to get this game going, and tried to apply some pressure.

EchelonTee:
Leaning town. He went into a fight with Acrofalis from the get go, and haven't been afraid to stick his head out.

Zealos
Get some scumvibes off him. He started the game by voting VE as number two, without a good reason. He claims it to be a joke later (which it might be). He then proceeds to vote Acrofales based on ET's case, and because of meta, basicly sheeping ET. The rest of his filter seems very empty, even though he got more post than most in this game. Some townpoints for actually bother to answer questions.

Mattchew
He might be one of those I called out for not posting earlier, that is a scum. I don't know what he is trying to do, but if his postingstyle continues this way he will be disruptive townie at best, and sabotaging scum at worst. Leaning scum for now.

Nova_Terra
Leaning scum. He was active at the start, but unlike Acrofalis his attempts at pushing seems more forced, and with no real weight behind it. His whole postingstyle seems very non-commital and gives me scumvibes.

Also Navillus need to get in the thread and do some more. His vote on WBG is the only thing he have done. And it was done without much reasoning, and in my opinion strange reasoning.


PS: I know you guys don't like list. But I want to do lists so bare with me.

PS 2: This is not an analysis post. It is a read post. When I am ready to put my vote down on someone I will try to make a good case/analysis on them. Exception is if there is a great case on them that I agree with, then I will be open about sheeping it, and probably just add some of my own reasoning to it.



This list... serves no purpose other than making you look active. Town reads are worse than useless day 1 as 1. they are even weaker than day 1 scumreads and 2. points to scum who to kill to cause confusion.

EDIT: There was more but WBG and Navillus covered it whilst I was writing

+ Show Spoiler +
On May 22 2012 05:37 Navillus wrote:
Okaaay so my WBG vote was a joke, I do not actually think it's a good idea to lynch one of our 2 vets on that basis alone and I am not really of the opinion that advice is an automatic scum-tell, it'd be nice to have a little benefit of the doubt on me not being an idiot.

Next ##Unvote
##Vote: Mattchew


As far as I can tell he's just posting with flavor text from mtg cards, if that continues I don't really care if he's scum or town it makes him impossible to read, doesn't let him contribute, and makes for a really shitty atmosphere. Mattchew stop it.

On N_T yes VE and WBG I'd say he's using pretty bad method of scumhunting/analysis and his vote is for a dumb reason, but that doesn't make him scum and aside from clear-cut examples of someone being useless or disruptive (such as restricting their posts to text from a card game) it's a bad idea to lynch someone for bad play, in my experience it's rarely a scumtell and depending on how they're playing badly it can be more of a town tell.

Tunkeg you asked a bunch of questions earlier, most of them were ignored, was there any point to them? Why don't you care that people didn't answer you/why aren't you following up? Also why post that list, if you have scum reads why aren't you just pressuring them instead of telling them, and how does telling everyone your town-reads do anything but let scum know who you think is townie and so light them up as targets?

Holy spam batman! NT scum or town please stop with multiple one or two line posts in a row, it's distracting and makes the thread harder to read through, consolidate.


How is voting for Mattchew due to his posting style (which you consider to be *Bad*) different to voting N_T based on bad play?

I don't necessarily disagree with you I just think you're being a little inconsistent. Shoot I forgot to unvote as promised:

##Unvote
##Vote Katina


Inactive players kill town. Katina, my vote stays on you until you make an appearance.


I made an apperance earlier today. Do you not read over the thread my dear?

On May 22 2012 03:27 Nova_Terra wrote:
On May 22 2012 02:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
On May 21 2012 21:17 Nova_Terra wrote:
Hey VE since you seem to want to ignore my challenge who do you wanna kill


Hey Nova, since you seem to want to ignore my question to you (something that's actually USEFUL to this game, unlike your "challenge"), how about you actually answer it instead of trying to distract town with meaningless drivel? I'll even repost it for your convenience.

On May 21 2012 08:56 VisceraEyes wrote:
On May 21 2012 05:59 Nova_Terra wrote:
On May 21 2012 05:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
Whether or not advice is good has nothing to do with the alignment of a player, just the same as making a plan, regardless of how good it is, is generally not indicative of alignment.

If the advice makes sense, follow it. If not, don't. The question of "is this guy scum" has nothing to do with that.

I never said that it has anything to do with indicacating the alignment of the player,i said that general advice seems to be contributing but isnt really. and that its just as likely mister helpful is scum, etc.


Your style has so far been laced with an air of giving advice to the other players - in what way is Bugs' post giving advice any different from, say, you warning that "players trying to give advice could be scum"?

ooh i forgot about that
Its different because its not all i've done
and because i know im town
and its not really different itself, but i was aware of the hypocrisy before i made teh post


I would to bring attention to this lovely post. N_T might be the BM version 2! I say this because of his spam, oneliners, and the fact he seems to be refreshing the thread every 5 minutes. When BM is mafia he always over emphasizes that he is confirmed town.

Such things are silly to say and provide no help to the town I will be setting my vote.

##Vote Nove_Terra

Based on his fliter, he seems to more interesting in proving his innocence then trying to find the Mafia.


Show nested quote +


Look at this link where N_T was mafia. Notice that he spams here.... and what is he doing this game?
...
...
Spam!


JubJub 2:

Show nested quote +
On March 23 2012 14:04 Katina wrote:
DoctorHelvetica is mafia

This is because throughout the game he has been inconsistent in his posting.He doesn't seem to have a focus at all. DrH has done a massive amount of finger pointing. His posts consist of spamming and calling people retards.

DrH is inconsistent and pointing fingers a lot. Take a look at this post:
On March 12 2012 07:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Caller is trolling, mafia shouldn't be that scared of me to push me day 1 for no reason because I often back off my correct reads if I get distracted.

It's up to an individuals discretion whether or not they share who they are PMing with, policy lynching someone for not doing it is stupid. Also, town circles could be set up so that somebody can claim DT to someone they confirm and then use that person to broadcast their reads, or a tracker/watcher/etc. That can be useful. In that case the last thing you want is everyone saying who they are with.

Jackal58 is being a bit silly with what Wiggles and people like that are saying. His point is that scum know who town is and because of that they can cut down any circles that arise that they aren't directly involved in themselves. Especially it would be dangerous for someone to say "i'm pming with A B C and D" and then later come out and say "I'm PMing the DT and..." when say, B and C are dead or something. It's up to an individual to share their PM targets or not.

Gumshoe is posting a lot and very focused on town circles and such. For that reason, I'm voting for him. He has 2 pages of filter all completely disconnected from finding scum. The way you're probing Caller looks as though it would be helpful, but doesn't actually lead to anything. It's wishy washy, I feel like it's the kind of thing that scum would feel they can't ignore but don't want to commit to Caller if he's town. That'll satisfy me for now, it's pretty likely I'll come up with something better or that Gumshoe will just make himself look worse

The last paragraph is important here. He says gumshow is suspicious and is going to vote for him. Yet 8 hours later he makes this post:
On March 12 2012 15:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On March 12 2012 15:03 Bill Murray wrote:
@doctorh, what are the reasons you like from curu? I'm catching up, and I value your opinion. That is also why I am sort of sheeping you. You saw what I saw out of gumshoe, switched when that wagon wasn't going anywhere for some reason, and probably found a good one here.

I remember Caller's posting earlier on in the day being suspect. He came in like a bull, china flying everywhere, and the broken glass and debris are making it easy to see a case on him being valid.

tl;dr: catching up, asking questions, can see caller being scum


Caller came in trolling then made his case when there was light pressure and it seems forced. I'm not totally sold on him at the moment because I feel like this is pretty much in line with the way he always acts but Curu does make a better case. I still think Caller is a better lynch than Jackal but I'm not confident enough to push it.

Caller's case is based on, from what I can tell, misunderstanding of jackals post and then overstating the significance of it. Curu has a meta read that is at least accurate. Jaybrundage is one of those players who seems to me to be participating only in the surface discussion and making little effort to figure out what peoples motives are or hunt scum. His last few posts speak for themselves really. His confidence is a little bit out of place for a newer scum player though.

I'm torn between Caller and jaybrundage right now. I'd be on prplhz in an instant if his logic wasn't equally terrible last time I played with him.

I'm waiting for Pandain to come into play, he's awful so I'll know right away if he's scum or not.

And now his focused has shifted to Caller and jaybrundage. And this is where his focused stayed for all of another 12 hours until he posts this:
On March 13 2012 05:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
How does Caller thinking a scum would defend another scum make him scum? Maybe I'm not following your logic.

Jackal, roleclaiming was unnecessary. If there is no claim to the contrary I'll believe you. Dreamflower is a pretty specific role and I doubt there is more than one in this game as opposed to something like medic or veteran.

We need to reconsider the business surrounding prplhz. His play is poor but it's not particularly scummy and the attempt to pin someone as scum for making a similar case around the same timeframe is ridiculous and comes off to me as a hamfisted attempt by scum to start a bandwagon. The fact that it took makes me even more sure it's scum originated or backed.

Wiggles is the first to jump on it, doing nothing in the game besides talk about mechanics/town strategy (at great length) until this point I'm surprised his first attempt at hunting scum is so forced and illogical. The fact that prplhz made a case near the same time period is inconclusive, might perhaps implicate that he is town talking to curu or caller in PM but hardly mafiaesque.

Jitsu is the only one who voted for him and he's already been in the hotseat. This is the most alarming event in this thread to me. The Caller vs VE deal is really coming off to me like an ensuing tragedy of townie vs townie.

And now he's dealing with Jackal and Wiggles and Jitsu.

What is interesting is how quickly DrH jumps from one case to the next. He accuses and votes for gumshoe, yet never brings up the case again except where he says he's changing his vote. He moves his vote to Caller at one point before finalizing on Jitsu.

Part of the problem here is that he never follows up on his reads. From here on out all he has are one liners and random posts, there is nothing more about his reads until he makes the following post:
On March 14 2012 09:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Node is suspicious. I'm leaning toward Node or Caller on day 2. I know Caller is a ballsy player but he comes off as way too phony. He makes a fake case on me then ditches it for a bad case on Jackal then goes back to attacking me? He's just playing disruptively.

Node's vote switch to Sheth is a joke. Not only was Jackal not gonna get lynched but I refuse to believe by the way he was posting that he put so little thought into the game as to waste a vote on somebody completely random (the only one that actually had excusable inactivity) like Sheth.


This post came near the end of night 1 as well. Suddenly there is no more attention on Jitsu. He moves away from it just like he did with gumshoe. He makes the occasional one liner about him being mafia, but never pushes his case ever again.

And on Day 2 he makes this post
On March 15 2012 08:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Kurumi is indefenseable at this point.

jaybrundage, you play like scummy shit all game then start demanding role claims from everyone. Stop doing that. If you're town, it's stupid and unhelpful.

With Kurumi gone, we need to shoot prplhz tonight or lynch him tomorrow. He's been on Jackal and didn't react to Jackal's claim but despite this obvious fakery from Kurumi, he chooses to ignore it then go after me. He is aggressive then immediately backs off and acts like he was just messin around. What a joke.

Curu straight up lies about things I say, he at least has the good sense to vote for Kurumi.

I'm not pushing Caller anymore, his claim seems to be legit and like I said I lost some confidence in him as the day went on and moved toward Jitsu (who is also misrepresenting me). It isn't scummy for a player to change their mind and it isn't my priority to tell the town about every change of thought or thing I think, otherwise I'd end up spamming the thread. If you're that interested in my thought process, just PM me, I'm not going to clutter the thread with that shit.

kurumi, prplhz, curu that's my best guess. Abenson, rgTheSchworz, Sentinel, probably scum or traitor between those 3. Dunno about Palmar. His play seems pro-town but I know he's good. If he's town this game is probably in the bag, if it's scum it's over since it seems a town circle has been built around him.

Nobody has PM'd me in this game yet, which surprises me a little.

and Jitsu isn't even on his mafia list. Furthermore he only lists Curu as scum because Curu was being a JubJub. DrH should know better than most that idiocy =/= Mafia. Yet he puts Curu on his mafia list, but removes him later on the account that Curu started making more sense.

DrH is known to second guess himself more than anyone else. He even admits to it. The problem is is that he is not second guessing himself. He makes a case against someone, then immediately drops it and never returns to it. He simply has no focus. His agenda is in correspondence with a mafia. He accuses lots of people to insinuate the doubt. He tries to make everyone look bad so nobody is in the clear. Then when a mafia gets lynched he can immediately defend himself by saying he was onto them.

Someone said that DrH pushed for the Kurumi lynch so therefore he is in the clear. However if you observe the day 2 votes you will notice that it's very likely the mafia team was on Kurumi the whole time. Bill Murray has gotten a town check, the only remaining players not on Kurumi are myself and EchelonTee. So he is not immediately in the clear because of the Kurumi lynch. In fact the majority of his posts about Kurumi entail things like this post:

On March 16 2012 04:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
This thread is in fucking chaos and if this keeps up we will continue having no lynches for the rest of the game. Is everyone this terrible? I can't believe Kurumi is actually going to get away with straight up faking his role and doing nothing but trolling and trying to find the traitor all game.

I also can't believe that Curu making shit up to try to get Jackal killed and him and his scumbuddy prplhz trying to get a town suicide vig to shoot at night (benefits scum) ONLY seems odd to me. This is far and away the most embarrassing town performance I've ever seen.

You're an idiot if you don't vote for Kurumi. Caller is saying to vote for me because I flip flop and "only talk about the set-up". That's a bald faced lie, the majority of my posts are about scum or pressure and I'm WELL KNOWN to flip-flop and second guess myself constantly as town such as in AC where I changed my vote like ten times in the first day. In fact, if anything, the fact that I haven't changed my vote a million times makes me look bad. I don't even know what Katina is doing but she has no sense of meta and seems to be completely missing the obvious.

Caller is the dayvig, he confirmed it as far as I can tell so unless he somehow faked shooting Node, why would anyone vote for him? Scum have their powers in that KP cost thing it says so in the setup ...

So what Kurumi did is too scummy to be scummy? Congratulations, you've failed the most basic fucking trap of bad townie logic now never sign up for another game again you retarded jubjubs

His posts about Kurumi are much like this one: "vote Kurumi or else you retard!" His only reason for voting Kurumi is that Kurumi scum slipped. No analysis or anything. Vote Kurumi or you're retarded. If this is what scumhunting is than Palmar should be the reigning champion.

Even more proof of his inconsistency can be found if you click his filter and search for my name. Multiple times he lists me as mafia yet he has never hard pushed for me or giving reasons why I need to be lynched. In one post he says, "katina has called me out for stupid reasons but I'm not saying she looks like shit for "tunneling a townie" because my alignment isn't confirmed." This is interesting because when I first accused him he agreed with the arguments that I was making. He even acknowledged that he was jumping all over the place on his reads. As I said before, he's not second guessing himself. He is mafia and is casting doubt upon all the players. He has done a fabulous job of accusing everyone so when someone flips mafia he can say that he was suspicious of said person. Even if he was on Caller and Kurumi, he hasn't done anything recently besides cast more doubt on the remaining players. He has pushed for Jay to get lynched, but the majority of his accusations can be summarized with "Jay is retarded, let's kill him".

This leads into the obvious fact that DrH is acting nothing like he does when he is town. This is evident from his past games. Look at one of his posts from Storm Mafia:
On February 23 2012 09:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I didn't sheep anybody. I made my case on BC well before I even read syllogisms original post. You're connecting points I'm making in specific reference to other peoples posts to unrelated ideas. I was trying to illustrate that the wagon forming quickly doesn't mean much. The scum don't need to defend redFF if they can get somebody else lynched.

I don't think my posts are wishy washy. I wasn't yelling in the thread for one person to get lynched over any other, but that can't really be defined as wishy washiness. I wasn't planning on rebutting the case on redFF because I never ever thought it needed to be rebutted. I voted for redFF in the end. I moved my vote to BC to put pressure on him and make sure he stays active in the thread, his responses satisfied me enough that I wanted to stick with my original convictions and give BC Day 2 to prove himself. Needless to say I'll be keeping a close eye on him.

Calling BC the alternative lynch is a non-point since his flip, or lack thereof, was inconclusive. You don't know whether or not he is scum, unless you are scum, so implying that it is a defensive alternative makes no sense as town especially considering redFF is the person I voted for.

I never called RedFF not scum. I never called him 100% scum. I said very clearly RedFF is likely scum or terrible town but his claim is poorly done and seems defensive. I was more than okay with the RedFF lynch, which seemed so likely to go through at the time I switched to BC to pressure another player I was suspicious of. Seeing as RedFF has been AWOL during this entire period, I feel I made the right choice. If I didn't think RedFF was very suspect, I would have been far more vocal in trying to get people to join a BC bandwagon but you will notice I did no such thing as far as I can recall anyway. That's as much as I'll say in the interest of defending myself.


This redFF "flip", or whatever it is, is inconclusive and I don't feel it necessary to comment on it further. I'll read filters when I have the time.

Notice how he is very direct in explaining his actions about where his vote and suspicion lies. There isn't a single post he's made in this game that can be mirrored with a typical post from that game. He hasn't done any explaining this game. He only focuses on the present and fails to address his past behavior. And the few times people have brought up this fact his response has been "well I always second guess myself trolol" Put simply, he is not taking responsibility for his actions.

It's also interesting to note how calm and collected he has been in the past when he is town. The above post is typical in showing is behavior when analyzing and addressing issues. Of course we know him to have a temper from time to time, as we all do whenever we are in a game with VE. However this game he has done nothing but call people retarded over and over again. This attitude is a bit reminiscent of wherebugsgo when he is mafia. I can understand being frustrated with the game (considering I have Jay riding my ass constantly), but the level of his insults coming from DrH is not only out of character, but completely unnatural.

I would also like to mention that this game DrH has an absurd amount of one liners and small posts. A quick glance through Storm Mafia and Arkham City show that his posting length this game is also not in sync with his normal town play. When DrH is town, he is not afraid to write paragraphs upon paragraphs detailing his thoughts. This game we have one liners about how small our IQ is.


Summary
DrH has been playing completely out of character from his typical town play. He hasn't been focused, anormous finger pointing, one liners and insults. His posts have been inconsistent and bringing confusion into the thread. He has not been responsible this game and he needs to be held accountable for it.
DrH is mafia

##Vote DoctorHelvetica




In this game, when going after N_T Katina displays a very odd use of meta - very different from the way she used in the past (LII: Jubjub Mafia where Katina fingers DocH based on meta with a clear difference between his town and mafia styles (when DocH is town his posting is much longer and doesn't attack other people)). Compare that to this game, where Katina uses meta against Nova_Terra (Nova_Terra is scum because he spams as mafia. Yet he does this both as town and mafia...) That's not a logical argument at all. Also everyone should look at the cases that Katina makes in that game and compare that to this game; there's a clear level of depth that's missing from anything she has posted here.

This Game:

Show nested quote +
On May 27 2012 02:34 Katina wrote:
Okay first of all, I'm really tired of people (WBG) assuming I'm mafia because of my Meta I have said myself I have been busy. Stuff kept coming up this week, that's what happens when you have a "Life". I am sorry I couldn't be more active.

Secondly the two people I have been gunning for (N_T and Mattchew) are doing nothing but constantly bashing me. N_T is so focused on getting me lynched he is completely distracting himself from the forum. Mattchew is butt hurt because I got him to crack and stop using his quotes.

Third, I realize that Zealos claimed. I was fine lynching him as I stated in one of my posts before that. So me voting for someone I thought was scummy is considered Mafia? I love the logic behind that.

I apologize for not spewing out random votes and cluttering up the thread like a lot of you do. Everyone is so focused on me for stupid reasons when there are so many scummier people.


Liar Game:

Show nested quote +
On May 16 2012 07:26 Katina wrote:
On May 16 2012 03:04 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On May 16 2012 00:10 Katina wrote:
On May 15 2012 07:35 slOosh wrote:
Katina are you calling Meapak scum? Or misguided? How about prplhz?

Not really. His reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't actually think he's mafia but then again I have no idea who could be on Palmar's team other than Wiggles.

Katina I'm sick of you half assing this game. Put in some goddamn effort and give us some ACTUAL reasons. I don't know, maybe write an analysis, maybe have more of a thread presence, maybe PM people and at least pretend like you're interested.

After the cephiro flip I blew up all my reads and started over again and let me say this katina, it's foolishness's insistence that you're town which is preventing me right now from putting you in the majority and lynching you this cycle. Play the game.

I have been sir.

I do not mean to overstep your pride here. Let me say again that your reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't say this in an accusatory way; it's the truth. I don't think you are mafia, but as I said I don't know who the last member on Palmar's team is (I think Wiggles is one of them).

You said that Palmar is innocent because he has had the same reads as you from the start. That does not indicate anything about alignment. Palmar has wanted to kill sandroba and Cephiro (these are the two you listed). But everyone wants to kill those two. Also it makes the most sense that sandroba is the last member of BC's team. So Palmar isn't bussing one of his teammates.

The most incriminating piece of evidence is that Palmar was virtually derping when syllogism was alive. That's cause syllogism was hard core pushing his innocence especially in PMs. I know Foolishness and wherebugsgo were both suspicious of Palmar but syllogism made it hard for them to push that read. That and there were more important targets at the time. If you look through Palmar's post history you will see he was most active day 1 and then in the previous days since syllogism's death. Palmar was using syllogism as an excuse to not do anything. With syllogism constantly pushing his innocence he did not have to try at all, either in the thread or PM. He has only stepped up his posting since syllogism died, whether he's stepped up in PM land or not I don't know.

Even if you want to start pointing guns at me, you still need to explain why Palmar deserves a free pass. Cause this isn't about me, it's about Palmar. And like I said at least one person out of you, me, and Palmar has to be mafia. Unless you're going to claim mafia I'm not stopping until Palmar is dead.



When attacked in previous games (for example Liar Game) Katina typically brings forth new thoughts and reads (She's very eager to elaborate her reads on Palmar and address the issues that other people bring up). In this game though, Katina just says that she was busy and repeats the same arguments that she's been giving the entire game without analyzing anything new.

With such a big difference between her town play and her play this game and a general lack of good posting and reads, I think Katina is almost definitely scum.


A fairly long well thought through post, making valid points based on meta across several games and applying them to the current game. Except it's scum Hiro making this post.

Looking through his town games, they are more categorised by shorter posts, where ultimately Hiro is more involved in what's going on than he is here.

I believe HiroPro is scum

Seriously, that's your filter. If you want to discuss what you said about HiroPro, fine. But what you said was "leaning town" --> "dont' want to lynch him, but please write up a case because I agree on the weak presence" (to Palmar) --> "I believe HiroPro is scum"

I will respond to the actual last post on HiroPro, I read it but I'll work through my own thoughts now. Just...look at that progression. You haven't been hammering on HiroPro. Your read went from townie to townie but I agree on weak presence to scum. And your entire Hiro argument SEEMS to be "I thought hiro was town because he was active, now I think he's lazy town and must be scum because he's active." Can you give more robust thoughts on Hiro, because I'll discuss what you've said but it ain't much.


Yes, I meant specifically the last post. I don't know what else to say because I explained in that post why I shifted my reasoning. I had believed the effort he went to to search through previous games to make good meta arguments meant he was making good effort, which tends towards a townie read.

Effectively, my read previously had been taking this game in isolation, and earlier I went back and went back and looked through a bunch of Hiro's games. That's why I posted that post from Mini Magic, and commented on his other town games.

I'm just rehashing in longer version what I said in that post there. There aren't really that many 'robust' thoughts to give other than what I said. I said ealrier, as you mention that he seemed disconnected/weak presence, and going back through his games, it contradicts his meta.

I guess...when I read that post, what I get is you saying
  • I was leaning Hiro because of "diligence" and "his arguments based on going back and finding meta" --> Hiro for effort
  • I am now reversing that read, because Hiro is lazy and Hiro makes longer posts concerning meta
  • I will now link one long post in which Hiro discussed Katina and her meta
  • That post came from Hiro
  • Looking at other games, Hiro posts short posts and is "more involved" than he is here



I dislike that post and I almost just throw it out. You looked at Hiro's past games. You gave us ONE quote from ONE game, and a blanket statement that Hiro in other games posts shorter and is more involved. Which is fine, but just understand that there's not really too much there other than some assertions about Hiro's meta that are almost certainly true, but based on size of posts.

One reason you found Hiro townie eariler was his "well thought out points" and that his "thoughts have been unique this game and [you] like the way he thinks and agree with it much of the time." Does that still hold true? Does his meta trump that? I'd be more convinced by what's happening in game than a meta argument based on short/long posts and involvement. I don't see anything in that post about whether scum Hiro's points are well thought out, or about how you agree with scum Hiro's points but not town Hiro's points.

Do you really want to lynch Hiro based on being disconnected and posting long posts? I know you are voting Ange, but are you scummy enough on Hiro because of the meta read that you have that you want to lynch him, despite liking the way he's thought and the points he's made?


Frankly, yes. His only scum game that wasn't his newbie game was that Magic Mini game. That was the only game of the others that I looked at that he used meta examples from across various games in a post of his. Actually in the post I quoted, he was bussing Katina (who, in that game, I thought correctly was scum on meta) and his points were all valid.

It's not that I disagree with townie Hiro points, but they are rarely as... carefully constructed as his posts here were. It reminds me of Bureaucracy a bit, where slOosh made several outwardly excellent posts, but he was 'disconnected' from the thread. I could dig up my post where I said that if you really wanted.

Other than that there's not a lot to do other than say "why don't you have a look at the games for yourself?". HiroPro is typically more involved in the thread as town, but it's pretty hard just to pull random snippets from other games that show this.

Okay, that's fine. Didn't realize he'd only been scum once. No worries on the bureaucracy comparison. If that's all that can be said about him, though, then it's difficult for us to discuss your read on him. The most we could do is get to the same point, "Geez, his activity and the size of his posts doesn't look the same as townHiro." I'd rather have evidence from inside this game to lynch on than something as fuzzy as that.

Coming full circle though...you should still knock it off with Palmar. I've read your stuff. There's just nothing we can really DO with HiroPro though based on your post, because while it may look wrong it's not lynchably wrong (at least for me). If there's not a robust history, then looking through his meta, especially for things like post size and involvement, doesn't get us too much compared to someone that DOES have a decent number of games of both alignments. I'll give Hiro's conduct THIS game some more attention later this cycle.


My point is that his conduct this game is disconnected from the thread, which can be and often is a scummy characteristic on its own. The fact that it directly contradicts his townie meta is extra and confirmation.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 17:32 GMT
#1050
On September 22 2012 02:10 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Marv

I've been reading through Hiro's filters, and I'm not quite ready to peg him has scum. I agree that I haven't seen him make such a comprehensive post in his townie meta, but that's not necessarily scummy to me. Could very well be a meta-deviation. His silence so far has been telling, and I'm starting to lean scum on him.

Also, what is your exact read on Palmar right now? I'm having trouble determining whether you actually think he's scum or if you're just fighting with him 'cause you're pissed at him or something.


Scum. I was prepared to believe Palmar was just being... Palmar going into today, and was willing to hear out his contributions and go from there.

Instead it's clear from the Palmar we are dealing with that he doesn't give a crap about the game at all. He remains unwilling to share anything; he just doesn't care.

He's had the opportunity to come in to the thread and talk about why Ange might be town, or why Hiro is scum, and he's failed dismally on both counts. He said something along the lines of "there's still plenty of time" and that's exceptionally weak.

If Palmar genuinely believed town was going in the wrong direction with the Ange lynch, he should be doing what he can to stop it now, not 'later'. He said he hoped prplhz would be able to extricate himself from the mess he was in by himself. That may be so, but if he had actual insight as to why prplhz was town, why wasn't he sharing it?

In short, I currently see no evidence that Palmar cares for town in any way whatsoever, and he is scum.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 17:43 GMT
#1052
On September 22 2012 02:39 Hapahauli wrote:
So presumably you think Ange and Palmar are scum, yes?

If so, how does Hiro make sense as scum? It really doesn't.

Let's look from hypothetical "scum-Palmar's" perspective:
1) Ange, his "scumbuddy" slipped
2) Palmar's second "scumbuddy," Hiro, was not under much suspicion from anyone but Palmar
3) ...then Palmar proceeds to call a shot on Hiro and mention him explicitly as his top scumread?

There's no way this is true. Something's wrong in this equation.


Palmar is known for his scum strat to be "bus all his team-mates".

Hiro was under suspicion from Palmar, but with no weight. If Palmar refuses to give reasoning for Hiro being scum, then this isn't valid suspicion, it isn't even pressure. No-one is going to pay any attention to Palmar saying Hiro is scum if Palmar doesn't elaborate upon it.

The very fact that Palmar has been completely unwilling to elaborate on HiroPro since he mentioned him as a scumread in practically his first post of the game invalidates your argument in my opinion.

Gonna exercise now but I'd be very happy to discuss this when I get back.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 17:48 GMT
#1054
I think you have a pretty unsophisticated view of how scumteams might interact, frankly.

Anyway, back in a couple of hours.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 19:54 GMT
#1065
On September 22 2012 04:00 Mementoss wrote:
@Hapa/Marv

What would scum motivation be for Palmar giving his town read on me and explaining it (to an extent) in day 1/night 1. I was probably the 3rd most likely to be lynched day 1, and I was probably a major point of discussion day 2 as a lynch possibility, mainly through the thoughts of Austinmcc and Hapa (Possibly ange).


why the screw not? Go look at Palmar's filter in Bureaucracy, he's very forthcoming with townreads.

I initially led a lynch but then abandoned it and protected my 'townread' Bluelightz in Normal Mini Mafia 3, when I had the opportunity to lynch him, and then leave Palmar's choice of lynch to the next day, and I basically protected BL for the whole game after. Why not?

3rd most likely to be lynched? Who the fuck cares. When it actually matters (prplhz/Ange) Palmar has stayed completely unforthcoming in the explanation for his reads.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 19:55 GMT
#1066
On September 22 2012 04:27 Hapahauli wrote:
The thing with Palmar is that he's been really forthcoming with town-reads all game. He had me, you (mementoss), Blazinghand, and prplhz read as town before any flips. He also has a town-read on iamperfection that I very much agree with.

Now I don't see how this makes sense from a scum-objective standpoint. If he just believed that prplzh was town near the gallows deadline, I'd find that scummy. But he's not. He's going out of his way to establish townie reads (and rather accurately so far). His only confirmed mistake thusfar is mkfuba, and that's something everyone got wrong.

Is it possible that this is scum motivated? Yah sure, I mean scum have alignments of every player. But him going out of his way to establish multiple players as town isn't what I'd expect scum to do. Plus, if he and Ange were scum, from what marv is saying, he'd pretty much auto-bus her, especially after including her in a scumlist yesterday.

I really want to hear what he has to say about Ange.


yeah, you're just falling into the trap of being confused by his games. Pretty annoying to watch actually. I want Palmar dead more than I want Ange dead right now.

##Unvote
##Vote: Palmar

[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 20:00 GMT
#1067
On July 21 2012 04:38 syllogism wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2012 04:34 HiroPro wrote:
Syllo, why do you think Palmar is mafia? You haven't really said anything specific: just that his tone/attitude are off and he's not putting in effort.

It's his overall behavior, lack of effort and attitude towards me and sandroba especially. Some of his reads I think are genuine (for example what he says about layabout) and some clearly are not (his BM read). Can you find anything that indicates he cares about the town and wants to push town towards anything useful? He just pops in to say something irrelevant. Town palmar would never think I'm mafia by this point (as a side note, I actually think that there is a chance that he thought that I was early on and tried to "communicate" with me by random voting me).


if you don't want to listen to me, listen to syllogism
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 20:08 GMT
#1069
On September 22 2012 05:04 Mementoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 05:00 marvellosity wrote:
On July 21 2012 04:38 syllogism wrote:
On July 21 2012 04:34 HiroPro wrote:
Syllo, why do you think Palmar is mafia? You haven't really said anything specific: just that his tone/attitude are off and he's not putting in effort.

It's his overall behavior, lack of effort and attitude towards me and sandroba especially. Some of his reads I think are genuine (for example what he says about layabout) and some clearly are not (his BM read). Can you find anything that indicates he cares about the town and wants to push town towards anything useful? He just pops in to say something irrelevant. Town palmar would never think I'm mafia by this point (as a side note, I actually think that there is a chance that he thought that I was early on and tried to "communicate" with me by random voting me).


if you don't want to listen to me, listen to syllogism


How is this out of context quote relevant to anything lol, its someones opinion on meta.


Because it directly applies to this game, it matches in every way. Palmar went after one of the stronger, more vocal town players in Bureaucracy (syllo), read me here. Hapa's all like "but this and this look genuine", here's syllo pointing out that as mafia Palmar does look like he's making genuine reads

"Can you find anything that indicates he cares about the town and wants to push town towards anything useful? He just pops in to say something irrelevant."

Again, a total mirror image of this game. He gives pointless town reads on iamperfection, but on important matters - prplhz, Ange, Hiro - he does nothing AT ALL.


[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 20:09 GMT
#1071
Every reason to think he's scum, read any of my posts on him in the last couple of pages. This is classic scum Palmar play. It's not really my fault you don't understand this.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 20:12 GMT
#1072
Palmar has proved his alignment today by refusing to elaborate on why Ange is a bad lynch, despite agreeing with prplhz's read that had Ange down in slightly scummy column.

He's also proved it by refusing to elaborate at any point, especially today, on why Hiro is scum.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 20:15 GMT
#1074
The similarities are pretty clear in going after syllo and going after me. Yes, I was quiet at the start of this game, but Palmar also knows I am a threat to him in particular. Palmar has often said that syllo has the best grasp of his alignment of anyone in TL Mafia, and he went after him. Who knows Palmar's play better than me here? Anyone?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 20:16 GMT
#1076
no, it's completely irrelevant.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 20:47 GMT
#1087
On September 22 2012 05:27 austinmcc wrote:
I have no desire to lynch palmar or marv today.

If I thought that either of them would feel heavily pressured by a few votes, I might cast my lot in to see what it shook out of one of em, but I see you being able to keep their cool as scum under pressure, and I don't want to play games when I'm so sure ange is scum and we've got her up for lynch right now.


Problem is, you're wrong.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 20:48 GMT
#1088
On September 22 2012 05:26 Mementoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 05:23 Zephirdd wrote:
On September 22 2012 05:15 Mementoss wrote:
While were here throwing out random quotes I found an interesting one:

On September 07 2012 05:32 marvellosity wrote:
I will tell you why your post was not formed in the manner of the most intelligent, prplhz, my good sir.

Scum marvellosity sees something dodgy that Risen has written, and aggressively pursues scum Risen for it. He won't let it go and in fact makes scum Risen look worse and worse with each passing post. Having made scum Risen look awful to the thread, to the point where everyone is piling on to him, scum marvellosity decides to remove any credit he might have for the flip by unvoting him without much reason.

Therefore scum marvellosity's masterplan is to get scum Risen lynched completely unnecessarily and give himself no credit for it.

scum marvellosity is a fucking genius.


Replace Risen with Palmar and apply the bolded parts for Day1/Night1 and Day 2?
Does this sound right to you?


they were both town and it was day 1 IIRC

we are at day 2 and palmar has done jack shit


The context is not the point, its the point that its Marv's opinion on his own scum play, which is going to be more accurate than anyone elses opinion on his scum play.


the whole post was entirely sarcastic. what's wrong with you?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 20:52 GMT
#1090
You should be voting for Palmar. Everyone should. Probably Ange and Palmar are both mafia, but Palmar is way more of a threat.

The discussion of the last few pages demonstrates that enough
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 20:56 GMT
#1092
because, for example, he already got Hapa, someone I hold in high regard as to logic and reading abilities, totally confused about his interactions with Ange/Hiro/whoever. This isn't something Ange does.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 20:59 GMT
#1094
he is because he already threw you off reads in connection with him.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 21:00 GMT
#1095
The whole way Palmar plays mafia is to sow enough confusion into town that by the time he's lynched town don't know who's connected to what or where.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 21:02 GMT
#1098
On September 22 2012 06:01 Mementoss wrote:
Only Mafia would consider Palmar a threat tbh.


if you ever want to win a town game, you might wanna listen to people who know what they're talking about
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 21:04 GMT
#1101
no, you're just being bad.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 21:06 GMT
#1103
On September 22 2012 06:05 Mementoss wrote:
agree with marv or your bad


no, say stupid, retarded crap like "only mafia consider Palmar a threat" is bad.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 21:13 GMT
#1105
no it's not entirely on meta.

this game Palmar has done nothing, he let his townread prplhz get lynched without intervening, he's saying Ange shouldn't be lynched but he isn't intervening, he's called scum for the whole game without ANY explanation.

That is all WITHIN THIS GAME.

The meta merely matches perfectly to how completely useless and irrelevant he's been in every way this game.

But yes, I consider my reads better than yours because I've actually won some games as town.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 21:14 GMT
#1106
EBWOP: he's called HIRO scum
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 21:50 GMT
#1108
I'm not, town should be lynching him, that's all.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 21:51 GMT
#1110
That's nice. We should still be lynching him
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 22:03 GMT
#1112
good for you dear
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 22:04 GMT
#1114
I'll see you all tomorrow, you lot can try discussing productive things while i'm not here
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 22 2012 09:44 GMT
#1165
On September 22 2012 10:57 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh damn looks like I just missed Ange. For when she gets back...

@ Ange777

I don't think you've addressed the most incriminating point against you yet - the clear contradictions between your pre-lynch mentality and your case on iamperfection. Firstly, this quote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2012 06:03 Ange777 wrote:
Where is the flip? I wanna get the celebration starting

At this point you clearly thing prplzh is scum for the reasons of the fail-claim (as posted in your first defense post). The problem is, there's no reason for you to suspect iamperfection for his vote. Pre-lynch, your comment on iamperfection's vote is fine. However post-lynch, there's a huge contradiction in your mentality:

Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 01:07 Ange777 wrote:
Finally people are taking a closer look at Palmar. I don't know about his past achievements of being perhaps a terrific scum hunter but I have not seen anything worthy of being praised like that in this game yet.

Unfortunately I won't be in for the deadline, for now my top scum reads are Palmar and iamperfection.

@iamperfection:

On September 20 2012 22:57 iamperfection wrote:
also at ange i want to you to explain more on your thought process at the deadline. What was going through your head when the claims came out.


What was going on? I have you marked as a scum read that's what's going on. Why would someone give up his right to vote just to simply sheep another player? Especially sheeping someone you yourself called a terrible townie. There is no town motivatoin for that kind of play. Publicly stating to sheep your town read just gives you an excuse to be wrong with your vote because you were not responsible for it.

And suddenly vote switching in the last minutes onto the seemingly scum prplhz whom you had not mentioned again after dismissing Blazinghand's case as being a weak meta case is just something I don't understand.

Two possibilities:

1) You are town. You want to make sure prplhz gets lynched. But we already had the majority to lynch him. So why the last minute vote? We discussed prplhz a lot before the end of Day 1 and you did not give your stance on him.

2) You are scum. You wanted to get some town cred for jumping on "scum prplhz".

Right now I am leaning to 2 as you still haven't given me a satisfying answer for your voting behaviour.


Firstly, there's no reason you should be suspicious of iamperfection for his fakevote due to your comments on the prplzh fake-claim. As you have stated, prplzh's fake-claim is the thing that re-affirmed your scumread on him. Problem is, you show a complete ignorance of this mentality when attacking iamperfection. It's pretty clear that iamperfection switched his vote for the same reason that you re-affirmed your read on prplzh. Despite the supposedly similar mentalities, you show a complete unawareness of this when attacking iamperfection. It should have been obvious to you why he switched his vote. It reads like you are forcing suspicions, and this disconnect in your mentality reinforces this.

Now as for the bolded part, it just makes no damn sense. As marv said earlier, why hypothetical scum iamperfection try to get town cred for jumping on prplhz? Scum iamperfection would have known that prplzh was town. This makes 0% sense, and is more evidence for me that you're forcing cases/suspicion on players.

It also doesn't help that the overall post is just terrible analysis. You seem to be more ticked off at iamperfection for "voting responsibility" rather than actual scummy behavior. A townie switching his vote after a huge fail-claim is pretty normal (and obvious), yet for some reason you're completely oblivious to it.

I'm interested in hearing your response, but I can't think of any town-mentality for your suspicions on iamperfection. I will say that if you can't convince the town, dump your reads on as many players as you can, Right now, you're relentlessly tunneling iamperfection (and mementoss for a while... lol?). If you refuse to provide detailed reads on other players, I promise you will get lynched tomorrow.


Ange, I absolutely need an explanation for what's been bolded here.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 22 2012 09:45 GMT
#1166
EBWOP: piss, Hapa had bolded parts himself. The bolded bit about hypothetical scum iamp trying to get cred for jumping on prplhz. It makes no sense and it needs explaining and you haven't done so.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 22 2012 17:19 GMT
#1182
Ange, it doesn't make sense because scum iamperfection would know prplhz was town, how on earth would he get credit?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 22 2012 17:21 GMT
#1183
ugh, I could somehow see Ange flipping town, and it being Palmar/Hiro/austin.

I think Palmar is a much better lynch today.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 22 2012 17:24 GMT
#1184
The fact is that Palmar still has not come back today to tell town why Ange might not be a good lynch.

We should be hanging Palmar.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 22 2012 17:31 GMT
#1186
On September 22 2012 00:09 Palmar wrote:
Hiro, then possibly bluelightz, or austinmcc, but austin I would rather not lynch right now.

ange and zeph are much more in the null/leaning town territory.

hapa, meme, iamperf are the guys I'm pretty sure are town.

It's irrelevant, and sure I can make a case as to why I think Ange is town, but it's not going to be what you expect or what you want to hear.

don't think I can today though. But we have plenty of time.


imo, this 'plenty of time' has now passed.

Town, please join me in voting Palmar. I still think Ange has a pretty decent chance of flipping scum but I also see the possibility that she had a logic meltdown.

Currently I'm not seeing any possibility that Palmar is town.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 22 2012 18:21 GMT
#1191
On September 23 2012 02:53 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 02:21 marvellosity wrote:
ugh, I could somehow see Ange flipping town, and it being Palmar/Hiro/austin.

I think Palmar is a much better lynch today.

I think that as to the iamperfection bit that you're concerned about, there's a possibility she had a "logic meltdown." But I'm still convinced she's mafia.

Which I'm not, btw.


That's ok. If Ange flips town you're scum. And whether you are scum or not, you're blind if you think palmar isn't scum.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 22 2012 18:25 GMT
#1193
No.

Everyone who isn't weird austin, VOTE PALMAR
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 22 2012 20:56 GMT
#1285
Interesting last couple hours, been having dinner with my family who just got back off a 3 week holiday.

Palmar and Hiro are my top 2 reads at the moment.

Palmar had Hapa fooled by giving reads for once.

Do you remember earlier in the day, when asked about Ange, he said "I could tell you but you're not going to like it"? When you read his post a little earlier, was there anything there where you thought "ugh, wow, I don't like that" like he said? No, because he used that as a line to delay giving town anything for no reason. Why is Palmar's vote on me?

My vote is in the right place, Palmar doesn't give a flying fuck about this town.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 22 2012 20:58 GMT
#1289
fingers crossed, brb and see you on the other side
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 22 2012 21:10 GMT
#1293
on y va!
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 22 2012 21:12 GMT
#1294
come on ghost, i need to wash up :<
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 22 2012 21:17 GMT
#1297
dno't want flavour, just result please
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 22 2012 21:19 GMT
#1300
please palmar, don't be awful ^_^
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 22 2012 21:21 GMT
#1306
fuck yes.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 22 2012 21:21 GMT
#1309
tomorrow hiro
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 22 2012 21:22 GMT
#1312
yes you were Hapa.

That's why I said he was dangerous and had to die now.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 22 2012 21:22 GMT
#1315
Right, to the washing up in a fucking awesome mood!
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 22 2012 21:23 GMT
#1317
My best bet atm is Hiro/austin
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 22 2012 22:02 GMT
#1332
On September 23 2012 06:41 Hapahauli wrote:
Guys guys guys.

Guys.

Bluelightz? Still think he's scum, can someone comment on this?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250&currentpage=59#1171



Also:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 13:45 Bluelightz wrote:
On Ange777, I like the points against Ange, I don't like that Ange made one case on prplhz, then made another, with the points, it's just recycling bullshit.

Right now, Palmar seems more scummy to me then Ange (but willing to switch if need be) because


On September 18 2012 23:05 Palmar wrote:
ok I've caught up.

Will read more attentively later, some of you guys textwall like bosses. Here's my current idea of the thread.


I will deny!
iamperfection
Hapahauli
blazinghand
Palmar

Junglers
Zephirdd
Mementoss
bluelightz
prplhz
Ange777
mkfuba07

5 carries on your team
Marvellosity
HiroPro
austinmcc


Seriously? Palmar's a vet but I don't think he can go down this low, I think the unexplained list is self-evident of why it's bad.


On September 22 2012 00:09 Palmar wrote:
Hiro, then possibly bluelightz, or austinmcc, but austin I would rather not lynch right now.

ange and zeph are much more in the null/leaning town territory.

hapa, meme, iamperf are the guys I'm pretty sure are town.

It's irrelevant, and sure I can make a case as to why I think Ange is town, but it's not going to be what you expect or what you want to hear.

don't think I can today though. But we have plenty of time.


Additionally, This post: Unexplained stuff all across the board! Then he thinks Ange IS town but refuses to disclose why HE thinks Ange is town.

Lastly, I view Palmar's tunneling of marv only to be viewed as "doing something" (read: scumhunting).

##Vote: Palmar


Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 00:56 Bluelightz wrote:
Also, this is before I go off for the night:

##Unvote
##Vote: Ange777


Don't think having my vote on Palmar will help later on during the last minute mess.


yeah through elimination I really don't think BL is scum.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 22 2012 22:04 GMT
#1333
although that voting stuff was weird. meh. will filter people later. there's simply a tonne of information out there to be mined right now.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 22 2012 22:44 GMT
#1337
Just been pulling up some quotes from austin's filter, regarding Palmar.

This is going to be pretty long due to the fact I'm posting a lot of quotes. Some will also be duplicated as they apply to different sections. Sorry if it's a bore. A couple of things I've noticed while going through his filter:

1) austin lumps me and Palmar together. It's always marv and Palmar, or marv or Palmar.
2) austin never gives an actual read on Palmar until the end of the day when it's clear Palmar has a good chance of being lynched.
3) He doesn't want to lynch Palmar, he says this quite a bit.

Marv and Palmar together:

On September 22 2012 01:15 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 01:09 Mementoss wrote:
I'm wondering if it's best for the town if we just settle this nonsense today.
Marv vs Palmar

The problem with this is that it doesn't give us anything.

Both are perfectly capable of setting this up as scumbuddies. I think both are capable of this if they're both town. I don't terribly want to flip either, and I don't think flipping either gives us a conclusive read on the other.


On September 22 2012 05:27 austinmcc wrote:
I have no desire to lynch palmar or marv today.

If I thought that either of them would feel heavily pressured by a few votes, I might cast my lot in to see what it shook out of one of em, but I see you being able to keep their cool as scum under pressure, and I don't want to play games when I'm so sure ange is scum and we've got her up for lynch right now.


On September 22 2012 06:42 austinmcc wrote:
IF Palmar is scum and IF he's dangerous because he can cause more confusion if left alive, then right now, the best opportunity for him to sow confusion is TO DO EXACTLY WHAT HE'S DOING.

-snip-

If you know Palmar so well, the flip side is also true. Palmar has played more games with you than with the rest of the players in this game, as far as I know. That means that IF he's going to be dicking with anyone's head, it's going to be yours. So quit letting him.



This last quote was also part of a whole chain of posts where austin tells me to stop sniping at Palmar.

On September 22 2012 08:42 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 08:12 Ange777 wrote:
have missed something. But please rather sooner than later cause otherwise I'll go to sleep first.

What would your read be on me if all you had was the TOO obvious post and the prplhz vote post?

What is your current read on mementoss?

If you had to choose a lynch target for today that wasn't you, palmar, or marv, who would you be looking at and why?

If we weren't playing mafia, and everyone in this thread was actually a mountain (except you), who would be the tallest mountain? Which mountain would have the most wildlife living on it?


Interesting how he lumps me in with Palmar once again, even though I've obviously been a completely unviable lynch target for the day. Why not marv?



I don't wanna lynch Palmar:

On September 22 2012 01:15 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 01:09 Mementoss wrote:
I'm wondering if it's best for the town if we just settle this nonsense today.
Marv vs Palmar

The problem with this is that it doesn't give us anything.

Both are perfectly capable of setting this up as scumbuddies. I think both are capable of this if they're both town. I don't terribly want to flip either, and I don't think flipping either gives us a conclusive read on the other.


On September 22 2012 02:49 austinmcc wrote:
As long as we're playing connection games, I'm still wondering about this:

Show nested quote +
On September 20 2012 19:06 Palmar wrote:
For the record, I don't think mementoss is scum. I agree with almost everything said in this post, aside from lynching me. But it's fine, I don't intend for this game to reach lylo.

On September 20 2012 05:46 prplhz wrote:
okay prplhz list of reads:

town:
iamperfection
blazing
zephirdd
hapa
mementoss
palmar

townie/null:
austinmcc
mkfuba07
bluelightz

scummy:
ange777
hiropro

scum:
marv

remember to lynch palmar at lylo


Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 10:02 austinmcc wrote:

SNIPPED

I'd be interested in Palmar's thoughts on ange. She was in prplhz's "scummy" range, along with hiropro, who seems to be palmar's lynch preference for today. Palmar was that one of prplhz's reads you were alright with? If so, do you want to share reasoning?

Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 22:21 Palmar wrote:
That is very much fine with me. This ange lynch is not good anyway.

There's been far less Palmar --> Ange interaction when compared to Palmar --> Hiro, which is saying something I guess. Although there was a good amount of Ange --> Palmar action D1 where she was asking him lots of questions and trying to keep thread from letting him get by with what he was adding.

I still don't want to lynch Palmar, but only after pulling it back out do I realize how much I dislike him agreeing with "almost everything" in prplhz's list. I don't care as much about a lack of reasoning behind reads, but that post from his is actually NO reads. Agreeing with almost everything there tells us nothing about what he actually does and doesn't agree with, besides prplhz's read on Palmar himself.


On September 22 2012 05:27 austinmcc wrote:
I have no desire to lynch palmar or marv today.

If I thought that either of them would feel heavily pressured by a few votes, I might cast my lot in to see what it shook out of one of em, but I see you being able to keep their cool as scum under pressure, and I don't want to play games when I'm so sure ange is scum and we've got her up for lynch right now.


On September 23 2012 02:53 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 02:21 marvellosity wrote:
ugh, I could somehow see Ange flipping town, and it being Palmar/Hiro/austin.

I think Palmar is a much better lynch today.

I think that as to the iamperfection bit that you're concerned about, there's a possibility she had a "logic meltdown." But I'm still convinced she's mafia.

Which I'm not [on Palmar], btw.




Complete lack of a read on Palmar:

On September 22 2012 00:27 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 00:19 marvellosity wrote:
That says nothing at all, well done again. No reasoning for anything at any point in that post.

I don't know if you're trying to or not, but this keeps clogging up the thread. The majority of his posts have not included reasoning. You've got a lot of posts calling him out on that. We see the lack of reasoning; you can stop. Nobody is sitting in thread saying Palmar has done a great job of letting us see where he's getting his calls from. Nobody is sheeping his reads either. I still don't know what to make of Palmar, but 10 more discussions of how he's not giving full-throated reads isn't going to do anything for anyone.

Moreover, some of those reads DO have reasoning, but earlier in thread - I know iam was covered in his first reads, I believe he may have given reasoning for hiro at some point (not entirely sure there). There's no NEED for reasoning on hapa, and little need for anything on mementoss.



Starts the story with "I don't know what to make of Palmar"

On September 22 2012 00:38 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 00:29 marvellosity wrote:
No, he never ever gave reasoning for Hiro. The fact that you don't even fucking realise this is why I should keep pointing stuff like that out. In short, piss off austin.

Yup, I was wrong. No reasoning on Hiro.

But no, it's not a reason to keep pointing it out, and it's especially not a reason to keep sniping at him. If you've been trying to potty train a kid for 8 years and he's still just peeing himself at the dinner table, then at some point you give up on it. You strap a diaper and a helmet on him and send him out into the world to go count to purple. Anybody who thinks, right now, "Palmar is giving a hell of a lot of good reasoning behind his reads" is that kid. Anybody who isn't doesn't need to be informed that there's still a lack of involvement.

Spend your energy elsewhere. I've seen you get tangled up with one person for an entire cycle, and it neuters your ability to do anything else. IF Palmar is scum, then it feels like that's what is going on, you're just being goaded into wasting all your effort on sniping/fuming/looking at Palmar.


"If" - uh huh.

On September 22 2012 02:49 austinmcc wrote:
As long as we're playing connection games, I'm still wondering about this:

Show nested quote +
On September 20 2012 19:06 Palmar wrote:
For the record, I don't think mementoss is scum. I agree with almost everything said in this post, aside from lynching me. But it's fine, I don't intend for this game to reach lylo.

On September 20 2012 05:46 prplhz wrote:
okay prplhz list of reads:

town:
iamperfection
blazing
zephirdd
hapa
mementoss
palmar

townie/null:
austinmcc
mkfuba07
bluelightz

scummy:
ange777
hiropro

scum:
marv

remember to lynch palmar at lylo


Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 10:02 austinmcc wrote:

SNIPPED

I'd be interested in Palmar's thoughts on ange. She was in prplhz's "scummy" range, along with hiropro, who seems to be palmar's lynch preference for today. Palmar was that one of prplhz's reads you were alright with? If so, do you want to share reasoning?

Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 22:21 Palmar wrote:
That is very much fine with me. This ange lynch is not good anyway.

There's been far less Palmar --> Ange interaction when compared to Palmar --> Hiro, which is saying something I guess. Although there was a good amount of Ange --> Palmar action D1 where she was asking him lots of questions and trying to keep thread from letting him get by with what he was adding.

I still don't want to lynch Palmar, but only after pulling it back out do I realize how much I dislike him agreeing with "almost everything" in prplhz's list. I don't care as much about a lack of reasoning behind reads, but that post from his is actually NO reads. Agreeing with almost everything there tells us nothing about what he actually does and doesn't agree with, besides prplhz's read on Palmar himself.


I don't want to lynch Palmar, but I don't like this. Don't like? And? Just so we don't get confused that "don't like" means "I think he's scum", we have him definitely not wanting to lynch Palmar a few hours later:

On September 22 2012 05:27 austinmcc wrote:
I have no desire to lynch palmar or marv today.



On September 22 2012 06:42 austinmcc wrote:
IF Palmar is scum and IF he's dangerous because he can cause more confusion if left alive, then right now, the best opportunity for him to sow confusion is TO DO EXACTLY WHAT HE'S DOING.



If if if if if

On September 23 2012 02:53 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 02:21 marvellosity wrote:
ugh, I could somehow see Ange flipping town, and it being Palmar/Hiro/austin.

I think Palmar is a much better lynch today.

I think that as to the iamperfection bit that you're concerned about, there's a possibility she had a "logic meltdown." But I'm still convinced she's mafia.

Which I'm not [on Palmar], btw.


Still not convinced on Palmar.

On September 23 2012 03:22 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 03:21 marvellosity wrote:
On September 23 2012 02:53 austinmcc wrote:
On September 23 2012 02:21 marvellosity wrote:
ugh, I could somehow see Ange flipping town, and it being Palmar/Hiro/austin.

I think Palmar is a much better lynch today.

I think that as to the iamperfection bit that you're concerned about, there's a possibility she had a "logic meltdown." But I'm still convinced she's mafia.

Which I'm not, btw.


That's ok. If Ange flips town you're scum. And whether you are scum or not, you're blind if you think palmar isn't scum.

Oh I've pretty much come around on palmar being scum. But your worries about him wreaking havoc seem pretty unfounded.

Also, if Ange flips town I'll actually still be town.


Wait, what? austin now thinks Palmar is scum? Based on what? There has been no read at all on Palmar in any of his filter, and now, when everyone else actually wants to lynch Palmar, austin has come around to thinking that Palmar is scum?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 11:00 GMT
#1341
On September 23 2012 05:08 austinmcc wrote:
Marv isn't doing that this game because he's bogged down with Palmar. EVEN if palmar is mafia, there's no need to shoot marv. Palmar's existence and taunting makes marv near-useless as townie, A FACT WHICH HE RECOGNIZES TO SOME EXTENT - + Show Spoiler +
On September 21 2012 09:42 marvellosity wrote:
I'm so behind, I hadn't even got on to considering austin's posts yet :<
On September 21 2012 09:45 marvellosity wrote:
no, I mean I literally had been talking to you and looking at Bluelightz's past games and shit, so i was putting austin's posts aside for a moment.

I'll have a proper look myself; obviously I'd had some niggles as I asked you that question about her interactions with iamp a little earlier.
On September 21 2012 10:57 marvellosity wrote:
I need to read the thread more closely if i'm missing shit like that on first pass

.


Why is austin misrepresenting what's going on in thread? Take this. "Palmar's existence makes marv near-useless" and he then proceeds to quote a bunch of quotes. Let's break it down.

Quotes 1) and 2) were referencing how I hadn't looked at austin's posts on Ange, because I was discussing Bluelightz with Hapahauli. In what way, in what universe, is this me getting bogged down with Palmar? It's quite the opposite. I hadn't gotten around to austin's posts because I was discussing with Hapa a player that had absolutely nothing to do with Palmar. It even fucking says so in the quotes, why is austin suggesting it was because I was bogged down with Palmar? The final quote was that I missed something and I suck, which was just an admission I felt bad for missing it (yeah, I do miss stuff).

I find austin's entire argument that the Palmar dispute got my bugged down as utterly disingenuous. Day 2, I

1) Discussed Bluelightz at length with Hapa
2) Was an active part of the discussion on Ange and her posts around deadline;
3) Examined Hiro's past games, his conduct in this game, and changed my read on him,
as well as
4) Getting Palmar lynched.

Yes, I've spent plenty of time on Palmar, but suggesting that's all I've done is actually just an outright lie.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 11:14 GMT
#1342
On the flip side of this, austin did seem to take a somewhat active part in persuading Hapa that Palmar was being useless and that coming into the thread one time != participating/caring.

So I'm entertaining the notion that austin could just be playing with pants-on-head at various points in this game rather than be scum. Not entirely sure which it is right now. Still leaning scum though.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 13:21 GMT
#1345
It wasn't that I wasn't reading what you had to say about Ange, it's that I was concentrating on BL at the time before moving on to something else.

I'm not going to say my views/interactions Palmar have always been emotion free, because that would be silly, but you're looking at things upside down imo. Actually Palmar's accusation of me got me super-invested in this game whereas before I was not. Regularly dying night 1 and 2 gradually erodes your motivation to be invested in a game as you might like, and so having the town's gaze on me forced me to get my butt in gear.

In short, Palmar's presence in this game has caused me to be more emotional than I might have been otherwise, but more importantly, more invested too. When I'm pretty sure someone is scum, I snipe at them - perhaps it's not optimal, but it's what I do. I called Zealos a total idiot when he was scum in Magic Mini when I was pursuing him, I called JingleHell a squirmy little bitch when I was pursuing him in Mad Men.

I tunnel people for shit, and hey, I'm not going to apologise for it - because one thing I am good at is getting who I want lynched. When I really want someone to die, they die, whether people like how I went about it or not.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 13:39 GMT
#1347
You're drawing too many similarities where they don't exist, though.

VE tunnelled me so hard and in the end I believed he had to be scum because no townie would be so blind. Most of why I felt VE was scum was on how he interacted with me.

Here I went to quite a lot of effort to remove as much as possible the interactions between me and Palmar (other than the initial silly OMGUS). My case rested on his (lack of) views on prplhz, Ange, Hiro, and his lack of investment in the game, and how this fitted his scum meta to a tee.

From a personal point of view, I was extremely convinced that a town Palmar wouldn't still be thinking I was scum by the middle of Day 2, which helped firm my own read up. But I didn't bring this to the thread because I knew it was pointless and unconvincing.

My case on Palmar though had practically nothing to do with OMGUS (even though it started that way).
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 13:56 GMT
#1349
If you were lynching him for being off-meta in PTP3, then you weren't using meta correctly. Simple as that.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 14:02 GMT
#1352
On September 23 2012 22:59 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 22:56 marvellosity wrote:
If you were lynching him for being off-meta in PTP3, then you weren't using meta correctly. Simple as that.

It was part off meta, yeah. Honestly remembered a TON of little questions in Bureaucracy that then led him to reads and conclusions, and it felt in PTP3 that he was asking less little questions, and then doing less with them. I was clearly wrong in reading him as scum.

A lot of the PTP3 lynch though was also off of mechanics. Shots on him that disappeared and were only explained by the fact that he didn't flip until after being dead. So the mechanics of his role kind of made him look scummy, when townies claimed to have shot at him yet the damage was missing.


I went through PTP again earlier today and it was mostly what I expected to see from a town Hiro.

Here he contributes less, asks fewer questions, isn't trying to figure things out, while at the same time seeming more sure of what he is saying than I'd expect from town Hiro.

Also, strictly in-game, look at his behaviour Night 1/Day 2. He agrees with me on Palmar totally Night 1 ("we should be lynching Palmar off this alone") and then pops into the thread Day 2 to go "lol nice on Ange, vote Ange!" and then somewhat later goes "yeah Palmar was scum all along, vote Palmar!"

Like, there's no reasoning of his own given. He doesn't attempt to push town in any direction at all, he just turns up, votes, and leaves effectively. There's no questioning, no figuring things out, there's just vote hopping in a way too sure manner.

What has Hiro done for the last 72 hours?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 14:37 GMT
#1356
you're both wifoming, although iamp was right, your post was very speculatively pointless in large parts.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 14:43 GMT
#1359
On September 23 2012 23:42 iamperfection wrote:
im just having a hard time thinking the two biggest wagons were both on scum.


perhaps, it does happen from time to time though
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 14:52 GMT
#1361
On September 23 2012 23:50 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 23:37 marvellosity wrote:
you're both wifoming, although iamp was right, your post was very speculatively pointless in large parts.

I'm pointlessly very speculative in large parts. I know it's entirely speculative, but I'd rather give my full thought process behind things, and really ange's answer to the mountain question is the biggest piece of me not thinking bluelightz is scum right now.


Right, which is complete bollocks. It's just a meaningless contribution based on wild speculation with no basis whatsoever.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 15:00 GMT
#1364
it may be honest, it's still bollocks
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 19:59 GMT
#1373
On September 24 2012 04:14 HiroPro wrote:
Show nested quote +
Marv wrote: hiro scum, unless ve flips scum


Yea, I was right.


I made some offhand remark in an obs of a game I wasn't concentrating much on due to a comment you made.

Relevance? None.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 20:03 GMT
#1375
Then maybe start playing like a townie?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 20:05 GMT
#1377
yeah, that's not it.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 20:09 GMT
#1379
here's a clue Hiro - after Palmar accused me I redoubled my efforts to help town because that's the way to prove my innocence and get this town to win.

You're sitting around quitting like a snivelling little crybaby.

Which is it to be?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 20:13 GMT
#1381
No, this town rules, we've had an extremely productive two days and lynched scum roleblocker Day 2.

Basically you're a quitter. Good job there mate.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 20:13 GMT
#1382
On September 24 2012 04:52 HiroPro wrote:
yea you need to realize something. when you call people mafia for dumb reasons and then just act like they're confirmed scum, they're going to stop caring.


funny, because that's what Palmar did to me, and my reaction was the total opposite, and I know I'm town.

Let me think here.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 20:22 GMT
#1384
On September 24 2012 05:14 HiroPro wrote:
yea but you thought Palmar was scum. hapahuli and mementoss are like confirmed town and you're probably town too....


so what? I was willing to give Palmar a chance day 2 to see what he contributed, he contributed jack shit, so we lynched the piss out of him. All you've done day 2 is pop in to vote a few times.

The same applies to you as it did to Palmar.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 21:20 GMT
#1390
On September 24 2012 06:02 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh and I was roleblocked. Cool.


if you were really clever you wouldn't have announced that
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 21:25 GMT
#1392
On September 24 2012 06:07 austinmcc wrote:
ack. poor deadline timing. gg all, sorry for the brain farts i had during this game.

GO TOWN!


so it was the pants on head after all

gg bro
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 21:25 GMT
#1394
On September 24 2012 06:25 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2012 06:20 marvellosity wrote:
On September 24 2012 06:02 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh and I was roleblocked. Cool.


if you were really clever you wouldn't have announced that


Realized shortly after I posted. It was automatic. Oh wellz.


yes, that's pretty much how it would have happened with me too, no worries.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 21:28 GMT
#1396
On September 24 2012 06:25 Hapahauli wrote:
Thoughts on the NK marv? Pretty strange one that is.


erm, fucking useful?

literally i don't know how to speculate when they had you, confirmed town to hit, and Mementoss, semi-confirmed town to hit, or me to hit.

I don't understand it at all actually. Trying to discredit me?

Let me go a little austin on you for a moment - Mementoss is SK, I blocked scum hit and Mementoss hit austin. Before you all shout at me, I agree that's pretty fucking unlikely, but yeah.

I'm only mentioning it because I don't understand the kill at all.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 21:31 GMT
#1398
what?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 21:32 GMT
#1399
I meant the NK trying to discredit me because I'd been attacking austin a while. Not Hapa.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 21:32 GMT
#1401
that scenario is even dumber than when i wrote it out because Mem wouldn't know I would potentially block the NK
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 21:35 GMT
#1406
I didn't slip, I outright claimed jailkeeper. Jesus christ Hiro.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 21:39 GMT
#1410
On September 24 2012 06:36 HiroPro wrote:
no that's what he wants you to think.


seriously, what drugs are you on?

On September 21 2012 05:16 marvellosity wrote:
Jeesh, I've almost left it too late - I really want to hear from BlazingHand on what he thinkks about Bluelightz, as I got teh impression from the discussions in GSL Open that he had, a pretty good grasp on Bluelightz's meta. I especially want to hear his opinion on whether he thinks Bluelightz' case on Prplhz felt 'forced', and the lack of town/null reads given to the thread.

The point with fubaa is that he was weak giving his reasoning on austin, which took fucking forever anyway, and then when pressed to comment on austin then commented on Mementoss instead. He managed to create a situation where he doesn't have to be held accountable for any of his reads because we don't even know what they are properly..


My crumb from night 1, when I tried to jail Hapa but was roleblocked.

JK Hapa. I call it the "typo" crumb.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 21:39 GMT
#1411
##Vote: HiroPro
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 21:43 GMT
#1416
On September 24 2012 06:42 HiroPro wrote:
here I'll help you figure it out. marv said he was RBed first night. austin dies today - he's not a good mafia shot. marv is playing weird. dingdingding.


then who's the jailkeeper, moron?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 21:44 GMT
#1417
er, I retract the moron. Can't edit though.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 21:44 GMT
#1418
On September 24 2012 06:42 HiroPro wrote:
here I'll help you figure it out. marv said he was RBed first night. austin dies today - he's not a good mafia shot. marv is playing weird. dingdingding.


I'm playing weird by lynching scum. Ok love.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 21:47 GMT
#1420
unless there's a counterclaim I'm 100% confirmed...
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 21:55 GMT
#1426
Anyone fancy moving this day to 24h?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 21:57 GMT
#1430
On September 24 2012 06:56 HiroPro wrote:
rofl. My third party play is actually decent. I'm not an SK.

I'm a townie....


then stop acting like a complete dick?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 22:23 GMT
#1435
Alright. So what we have to do right now is ignore Hiro and work on the (presumably) final scum.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 22:32 GMT
#1437
On September 24 2012 07:30 Hapahauli wrote:
Pretty much. I'm convinced it has to be between Ange and Bluelightz.

I'm kinda leaning more towards Ange in light of Palmar's antics on D2. Establishing Ange as town and pretty much doing everything to paint himself scummy only really makes sense if Ange was red. Palmar could have not posted and Ange would've gotten lynched no question.

He's confused me once, so I dunno how reliable that is...


It's not 100% either way. To hark back to Bureaucracy again, Palmar stoutly defended BlazingHand (scum) constantly, and BH was scum. So there's a reasonable chance Ange is too.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 22:44 GMT
#1439
On September 24 2012 07:40 HiroPro wrote:
Why would you ignore a townie????? Mementoss is the SK.

No mafia would kill austin. Mementoss is SK. Everything that hapa/austin said about him on d1 was true.


Maybe he is SK (unlikely). But if he is, he's out in the open and we can kill him at leisure. First, we need to kill scum.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 22:48 GMT
#1441
then go find us some scum love
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 22:51 GMT
#1446
On September 24 2012 07:50 HiroPro wrote:
It's not even 6 pm, so why would I sleep. And the Eagles are playing like complete trash lol. So yes, I am slightly tilted. But you guys are ignoring the most important thing that happened and treating me like confirmed scum when I'm not.


then stop acting like one?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 23:20 GMT
#1459
Hapa, if you don't vote for Hiro I will stab you in the face.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 23:22 GMT
#1460
If there is a Serial Killer, I find it rather unlikely it's Mementoss.

I have strong feelings about who it would be if it does exist, which I'll tell town at the end of the next night.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 23:24 GMT
#1463
On September 24 2012 08:22 marvellosity wrote:
If there is a Serial Killer, I find it rather unlikely it's Mementoss.

I have strong feelings about who it would be if it does exist, which I'll tell town at the end of the next night.


just for emphasis on this page
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 23:26 GMT
#1467
As a host of C9++ derivatives myself, I have a fairly good idea of the setups possible.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 23:34 GMT
#1472
why is it so bad?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 23 2012 23:56 GMT
#1475
yeah except Jailkeeper isn't Doctor...
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 00:07 GMT
#1477
On September 24 2012 08:57 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2012 08:34 marvellosity wrote:
why is it so bad?


Because she thinks that mementoss is a scummy semi-confirmed townie? On top of that, she explicitly labels him as the vigi. With her pushing iamperfection (for questionable reasons), it makes me think she's pushing mislynches rather than being an SK or townie or something.

As a side note, If there's an SK, it's Bluelightz for sure.


disagree
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 00:13 GMT
#1479
On September 24 2012 08:57 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2012 08:34 marvellosity wrote:
why is it so bad?


Because she thinks that mementoss is a scummy semi-confirmed townie? On top of that, she explicitly labels him as the vigi. With her pushing iamperfection (for questionable reasons), it makes me think she's pushing mislynches rather than being an SK or townie or something.

As a side note, If there's an SK, it's Bluelightz for sure.


I don't see at all how it means she wants to push on Mementoss at all. Rather it's an assessment on his play (scummy) and he's semi-confirmed townie (vigi)
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 01:10 GMT
#1491
On September 24 2012 09:48 Mementoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2012 09:47 Hapahauli wrote:
Marv claimed Jailkeeper


This is why I should read the thread before posting.


I loled

and yes, it's why you should.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 01:23 GMT
#1494
On September 24 2012 10:22 HiroPro wrote:
MARV FAKED THE BREADCRUMB. His "breadcrumb" was NIGHT 1, but HAPA SAID HE WAS RBED NIGHT 2. MARV IS A LIAR!

##Vote marvellosity


i already said it was night 1 crumb, moron
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 01:24 GMT
#1496
this time I do not retract the moron
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 01:27 GMT
#1503
On September 24 2012 10:26 Hapahauli wrote:
Talking to marv.


I know, I know. It's like mafia tourettes.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 01:35 GMT
#1508
Mementoss, we've given up talking to Hiro now.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 01:38 GMT
#1512
On September 24 2012 10:37 Hapahauli wrote:


lmao. Meanwhile, BL has disappeared off the face of the earth.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 03:08 GMT
#1517
10/10 would read again
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 11:25 GMT
#1522
Bluelightz, it's a 77 page game and you have only 1 page of filter.

Here's a clue - that's not enough.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 11:49 GMT
#1527
On September 24 2012 20:30 Mementoss wrote:
I think HiroPro is town or at least not scummy enough to warrant a vote. Details to come later.


Are you on some kind of hallucinogenic funtimes?

On September 24 2012 20:45 Mementoss wrote:
@HiroPro
You realize there is only way marv can be SK is if there is a town RB or a scum RB.
Buuuuuuuuut, lets cut those chances in half, because why would scum RB ever RB a mason.
And no one has claimed town RB.
So the chances of marv being SK are really low right now. There are better chances that he is a scum RB and RB hapa last night to make this claim and bussed Palmar, and withheld his day 1 RB and Palmar withheld his day 1 RB... Just for this JK claim.....Super unlikely.

If you are still convinced he is SK even though it makes no sense with the night actions. Here are some reasons we shouldn't kill marv:
1) If he is SK Mafia could waste a kill on him if they didn't already
2) Marv is a good player and helped us find scum
3) Marv is JK and can save players

@Marv, why did you decide to claim how/when you did


I was giving mafia the benefit of the doubt of not being full-blown idiots. Only 1 RB night 1 on me which they know was from them, and then another RB magically appears night 2. It's a very small logical deduction to work out who the jailkeeper is.

Why you're even arguing with Hiro is absolutely mindboggling to me.

[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 11:50 GMT
#1528
P.S. I don't think 2 mafia roleblockers is possible in C9++ setup
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 11:51 GMT
#1531
Then you're seriously deluded. Sorry, there's nothing else to say about it.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 11:54 GMT
#1532
Hiro is not a stupid boy. You had this fundamental misunderstanding of what was happening in the thread Day 2 when you were like "you know, Palmar's right, marv is spamming a lot!" and now you're having a similar fundamental misunderstanding of what's going on now.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 12:15 GMT
#1536
On September 24 2012 21:11 Mementoss wrote:
okay lol the only reason I didnt think he was scum was because of a sort of connection of someone else I thought was scum. (maybe possibly 2 other scum)

but guess i wont bother


tell us what you saw in other people.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 13:23 GMT
#1542
On September 24 2012 22:21 Bluelightz wrote:
Hapa:

My current scum reads are the same with others: HiroPro, because he stresses he IS a townie, but doesn't explain why the bloody hell he is a townie.

Show nested quote +
On September 24 2012 05:04 HiroPro wrote:
I'm a townie townie Townie Townie.


Also because he made a case on marv purely based on meta, which is rather weak as a reason because meta can change every now and then.

##Vote: HiroPro



this is so weak :/

Do you not have anything/anyone else to talk about?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 13:24 GMT
#1543
On September 24 2012 22:23 Bluelightz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2012 20:25 marvellosity wrote:
Bluelightz, it's a 77 page game and you have only 1 page of filter.

Here's a clue - that's not enough.


I'm just posting what's necessary - Scum reads and votes. The game is rather very complicated for me to form a read right now then forming reads later on during or one day before LYLO.


how can you not have learnt from GSL that that is too late to start trying properly?

At the moment you are spectacularly not contributing to town :/
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 13:31 GMT
#1546
On September 24 2012 22:29 Bluelightz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2012 22:24 marvellosity wrote:
On September 24 2012 22:23 Bluelightz wrote:
On September 24 2012 20:25 marvellosity wrote:
Bluelightz, it's a 77 page game and you have only 1 page of filter.

Here's a clue - that's not enough.


I'm just posting what's necessary - Scum reads and votes. The game is rather very complicated for me to form a read right now then forming reads later on during or one day before LYLO.


how can you not have learnt from GSL that that is too late to start trying properly?

At the moment you are spectacularly not contributing to town :/


What's the point with flooding town with my huge list's that people will just say "Oh Bluelightz is scum! look at dat list!"


Put it this way, we just lynched Palmar for not contributing or caring for town. Hiro is in a similar boat.

Who do you think will be next?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 14:12 GMT
#1550
You bring up some nice points on Zephirdd actually, and I will consider them at length tonight.

However, Hiro has gone into full troll mode and there is ZERO town motivation for this, whereas the scum motivation for shitting up the thread is obvious (the problem you have with Hiro Mementoss is that you haven't quite grasped Hiro has gone into full troll mode, and you feel he might just be horribly wrong or something).

Hiro dies today.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 14:17 GMT
#1552
On September 24 2012 23:15 Mementoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2012 23:12 marvellosity wrote:
You bring up some nice points on Zephirdd actually, and I will consider them at length tonight.

However, Hiro has gone into full troll mode and there is ZERO town motivation for this, whereas the scum motivation for shitting up the thread is obvious (the problem you have with Hiro Mementoss is that you haven't quite grasped Hiro has gone into full troll mode, and you feel he might just be horribly wrong or something).

Hiro dies today.


Alright, I just didn't think that Zephridd and Hiro could be scum together was the main reason why I thought hiro might be town because I was more confident in my read on Zephridd. Cause I didn't think Zephridd would go from one Bus to the other Bus.

I think IAMperfection has been given a free ride almost as much as Zephridd and would like some updated discussion regarding his alignment. I don't have time ATM, but I think we need to use today for more than vote hiro, incase hiro flips town.


There's no reason NOT to go from bus to bus, if that was indeed the case. I still agree with Palmar/Hapa's assessment of iamp's play though and think he is townie. I also agree we need to use today for more than killing Hiro (and it is precisely his trolling that is trying to prevent discussion of other things), which is why I'm so keen to hear more from BL and Ange right now.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 14:44 GMT
#1559
On September 24 2012 23:42 Bluelightz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2012 22:31 marvellosity wrote:
On September 24 2012 22:29 Bluelightz wrote:
On September 24 2012 22:24 marvellosity wrote:
On September 24 2012 22:23 Bluelightz wrote:
On September 24 2012 20:25 marvellosity wrote:
Bluelightz, it's a 77 page game and you have only 1 page of filter.

Here's a clue - that's not enough.


I'm just posting what's necessary - Scum reads and votes. The game is rather very complicated for me to form a read right now then forming reads later on during or one day before LYLO.


how can you not have learnt from GSL that that is too late to start trying properly?

At the moment you are spectacularly not contributing to town :/


What's the point with flooding town with my huge list's that people will just say "Oh Bluelightz is scum! look at dat list!"


Put it this way, we just lynched Palmar for not contributing or caring for town. Hiro is in a similar boat.

Who do you think will be next?


*Raises hand*

Yeah, I'm gonna go serious mode then probably .


what iamp said. Why don't you like, try now? Is that totally beyond you for some reason?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 14:46 GMT
#1561
Please do. Believe it or not, we really want to hear what you have to say about people
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 14:55 GMT
#1569
On September 24 2012 23:53 Bluelightz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2012 23:52 Zephirdd wrote:
On September 24 2012 23:48 iamperfection wrote:
On September 24 2012 23:47 Bluelightz wrote:
First up I guess,


On September 24 2012 06:02 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh and I was roleblocked. Cool.


How did Hapa get roleblocked if the roleblocker (Hey Palmar!) got lynched?

that was not encouraging


Because marvellosity claimed jailer.

Are you seriously attacking the confirmed mason? >_>


Didn't read the thread again >_<


Tell me, why aren't you reading the thread?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 14:57 GMT
#1571
That wasn't the question. Why haven't you been reading the thread?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 14:59 GMT
#1574
On September 24 2012 23:58 Bluelightz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2012 23:57 marvellosity wrote:
That wasn't the question. Why haven't you been reading the thread?


I have been reading the thread, to be honest, Ive been lurking while reading the thread, bringing the occasional X is scum because of Y and Z.


If you had been reading the thread, there is no way at all you would have missed that I claimed Jailkeeper.

How did you miss it if you've been reading the thread?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 14:59 GMT
#1577
answer my post above
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 15:00 GMT
#1579
No, you don't forget that sort of thing. You're lying.

Why are you lying to me?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 15:01 GMT
#1580
BL, if you haven't been reading the thread, I want you to be honest about it

Because you don't forget that someone claimed Jailkeeper if you'd actually read it. Tell me what's going on without trying to hide please.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 15:04 GMT
#1582
Think of this as an 'amnesty' where you can be honest about what you've been doing this game. Now's the time.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 15:08 GMT
#1587
On September 25 2012 00:05 Bluelightz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 00:01 marvellosity wrote:
BL, if you haven't been reading the thread, I want you to be honest about it

Because you don't forget that someone claimed Jailkeeper if you'd actually read it. Tell me what's going on without trying to hide please.


I'm too lazy to post. I'm not scum. I'm not trying to hide anything. It's just I'm too lazy, as well as skipping large parts of the thread which I deem unnecessary to read (Okay I should stop that), and that I'm too lazy to re-read the thread.


I literally just do not understand how you can have this attitude after what happened in GSL, it makes me really, really sad.

But for now, there's not a lot else to say on the matter, so whatever.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 15:15 GMT
#1589
On September 25 2012 00:10 Bluelightz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 00:08 marvellosity wrote:
On September 25 2012 00:05 Bluelightz wrote:
On September 25 2012 00:01 marvellosity wrote:
BL, if you haven't been reading the thread, I want you to be honest about it

Because you don't forget that someone claimed Jailkeeper if you'd actually read it. Tell me what's going on without trying to hide please.


I'm too lazy to post. I'm not scum. I'm not trying to hide anything. It's just I'm too lazy, as well as skipping large parts of the thread which I deem unnecessary to read (Okay I should stop that), and that I'm too lazy to re-read the thread.


I literally just do not understand how you can have this attitude after what happened in GSL, it makes me really, really sad.

But for now, there's not a lot else to say on the matter, so whatever.


It's hard to be motivated after being lynched and continuing the streak of town losses caused by your truly.


Surely that's the reason to try your absolute best and turn things around, no?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 15:26 GMT
#1596
On September 25 2012 00:22 Bluelightz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 00:15 marvellosity wrote:
On September 25 2012 00:10 Bluelightz wrote:
On September 25 2012 00:08 marvellosity wrote:
On September 25 2012 00:05 Bluelightz wrote:
On September 25 2012 00:01 marvellosity wrote:
BL, if you haven't been reading the thread, I want you to be honest about it

Because you don't forget that someone claimed Jailkeeper if you'd actually read it. Tell me what's going on without trying to hide please.


I'm too lazy to post. I'm not scum. I'm not trying to hide anything. It's just I'm too lazy, as well as skipping large parts of the thread which I deem unnecessary to read (Okay I should stop that), and that I'm too lazy to re-read the thread.


I literally just do not understand how you can have this attitude after what happened in GSL, it makes me really, really sad.

But for now, there's not a lot else to say on the matter, so whatever.


It's hard to be motivated after being lynched and continuing the streak of town losses caused by your truly.


Surely that's the reason to try your absolute best and turn things around, no?


"Bluelightz is helpful! He's probably scum! Like in Sum of all Fears Mafia! It's not normal isn't it?! He's scum!"

Even then when I DO try and do it people still insist I'm scum, I break down when people just blob into me.


Ok. Let's put it this way. You have a mostly confirmed town (me) who thinks you're probably town. This particular townie is very keen to hear your thoughts as you have them, and is also very keen for you to read the thread and participate as much as you can. I want to hear what you have to say because it will help.

So going forwards, let's take that attitude, ok? <3
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 15:27 GMT
#1598
shut up hiro
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 15:35 GMT
#1605
On September 25 2012 00:31 Ange777 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 00:26 HiroPro wrote:
Ok guys. I seriously don't understand what you're doing. I made a great case and none of you are actually reading it.

Let me put it this way to you. Serial killers have 1 KP. Mafia teams have 1 KP. How many people do you need to kill in order to get rid of the serial killer? Only 1. How many people do you need to kill in order to get rid of mafia? 2.

SO WHY ARE WE NOT KILLING THE SERIAL KILLER MARV!!!


Ok, while I don't believe marv to be the serial killer, the logic seems sound. Am I missing something why we should kill scum first before serial killer if we were equally sure/suspicious of them?


If the Serial Killer exists, we have no idea who he is. So it's beating a dead horse. Stop talking to Hiro and do other productive stuff.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 15:40 GMT
#1609
BL, stop talking to Hiro please.

That goes to absolutely everyone else. You are letting him derail the thread and by talking to him you are helping him fulfil his objectives.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 15:57 GMT
#1614
No, it's either 3-1 or 3-0 Mementoss. It won't be 2-1.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 16:06 GMT
#1619
On September 25 2012 00:59 Mementoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 00:57 marvellosity wrote:
No, it's either 3-1 or 3-0 Mementoss. It won't be 2-1.


Wat how does that balance, 1 extra scum, double the KP. Same amount of players? :S


because SK is neither pro town nor pro mafia.

In other words, if mafia is winning, SK wants to hit scum. With two masons + JK + vigi, 2 scum setup is basically impossible.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 16:20 GMT
#1622
Just as a placeholder thought, more as a reminder to myself so I don't forget later:

when I made my original case on Hiro day 1, Ange was dead set on prplhz over Hiro at the time, for reasons that I thought to myself should make Hiro more likely scum than prplhz. I think there may even be a little back and forth day 1 where I pushed her on this. Food for thought.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 16:46 GMT
#1624
On September 25 2012 01:20 marvellosity wrote:
Just as a placeholder thought, more as a reminder to myself so I don't forget later:

when I made my original case on Hiro day 1, Ange was dead set on prplhz over Hiro at the time, for reasons that I thought to myself should make Hiro more likely scum than prplhz. I think there may even be a little back and forth day 1 where I pushed her on this. Food for thought.


Because I'm obsessed with fucking mafia, I went ahead and dug into this right now. When people are looking at this themselves, pay attention in filters/whatever to timestamps.

On September 18 2012 23:54 Ange777 wrote:
@marv:

I don't remember if I've played with Hiro (probably not). Is there some meta play I should be aware of? Otherwise I can't understand why you are pushing a HiroPro lynch when I feel like prplhz is far more scummy.


On September 19 2012 00:35 Ange777 wrote:
@marv: I am far more comfortable lynching someone I have a scum read on (prplhz) than a semi-lurker (HiroPro). Especially as I feel that his posting is exactly the same as GSL Open.


Why is prplhz scummy? From what I gather from Ange's filter, it's mostly because he hasn't scumhunted. Thus:

On September 18 2012 17:26 Ange777 wrote:
Ok, after reading the thread there are a few matters which strike me.

prplhz

Show nested quote +
On September 18 2012 08:54 prplhz wrote:
On September 18 2012 08:37 Blazinghand wrote:
Also, you literally stopped posting when I posted the case on you, so there's that.

Yea I had just queue a game of DotA2 when you posted it and then I decided that I would rather see how it other people reacted before shooting it down.

I don't really get the first argument. You are saying that my first posts are similar in my scum games, this doesn't make me scum. Then you argue that the first posts themselves have a distinct scummy agenda which is very disputable but more importantly, do you really think that any scum feel the need to push any agenda in their first post? I think that my first post is townie, I think that for all of those scum games you posted. At least the content is townie. Not everything scum posts is scummy.

As for the "He's not quick to vote", no that's right, I didn't vote yet during the first 30 minutes of the game. I think it's a very thin argument that I should be scum because of that. I think I like to play both styles styles of "aggressive" and "careful and prodding" as town, I guess it all depends on what mood I am in.

Anyway, I think your case on me looks townie and with everything else you've posted I'm pretty confident that you're town.




austinmcc, I thought this guy looked really scummy up until this post. It's especially his explanation of that single word "OBVIOUS" that seems very townie to me. It looks like he really thought carefully about my alignment and didn't consider covering his own ass or anything like that. I like that. Townie for now.

Mementoss is a little harder. I think he just voted me because I posted a dumb picture and corrected his grammar. That can be really antagonizing I hate when people do that to me when I make a dumb little mistake. Overall I've got a townie feeling about him.

marvellosity is pretty shabby for now. Show me some of that "thinky" that you promised before the game.

We also need everybody else to join the game and post some more.



Actually I am not that sold on the effort in scum hunting he has done. I was equally suspicious of his first post as the last game I played with him had the exact same kind of starting post. After having defended himself against Blazinghand's case he proceeded to give us 3 town reads and stated that he is suspicious of marv due to the lack of posts. The case generated so much discussion that I find it unlikely that all he gained from it was town reads. Where are your scum reads?

@Blazinghand: I liked his explanation for the starting post as well but your case was not just based on the starting post but on his lack of activity/scum hunting as well. So why switch off of him? It seems like an easy way to change your vote even though he has not delivered what you were asking from him: scum hunting.



On September 18 2012 22:01 Ange777 wrote:
@prplhz:

Show nested quote +
On September 18 2012 20:33 prplhz wrote:
Disclaimer: I don't read any analysis that refer to the "Zephirdd Rule" also known as the "Kenpachi Rule Extended" because I think it's bullshit.

Anyway, HapaHauli is playing active and townie and I have no interest in lynching him today. Ange777 is looking terrible though.

@Ange777 Have you been scum at any point and can you direct me to one of those games?

List of people who suck: Bluelightz, marvellosity.


What makes you think my play is terrible? And why does thinking the Kenpachi/Zephirdd Rule is bullshit entitle you to just ignore cases? Just because someone posts bullshit does not mean that it can't help you uncover scum. Again I don't see any kind of scum hunting from you. Scum?


A lack of scumhunting, right. The problem is this: up to that point, Hiro had literally not done any scumhunting whatsoever, and Ange is dismissing it as a "semi-lurker lynch":

On September 19 2012 00:35 Ange777 wrote:
@marv: I am far more comfortable lynching someone I have a scum read on (prplhz) than a semi-lurker (HiroPro). Especially as I feel that his posting is exactly the same as GSL Open.


What prplhz had provided though, is this following post:


On September 18 2012 08:54 prplhz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2012 08:37 Blazinghand wrote:
Also, you literally stopped posting when I posted the case on you, so there's that.

Yea I had just queue a game of DotA2 when you posted it and then I decided that I would rather see how it other people reacted before shooting it down.

I don't really get the first argument. You are saying that my first posts are similar in my scum games, this doesn't make me scum. Then you argue that the first posts themselves have a distinct scummy agenda which is very disputable but more importantly, do you really think that any scum feel the need to push any agenda in their first post? I think that my first post is townie, I think that for all of those scum games you posted. At least the content is townie. Not everything scum posts is scummy.

As for the "He's not quick to vote", no that's right, I didn't vote yet during the first 30 minutes of the game. I think it's a very thin argument that I should be scum because of that. I think I like to play both styles styles of "aggressive" and "careful and prodding" as town, I guess it all depends on what mood I am in.

Anyway, I think your case on me looks townie and with everything else you've posted I'm pretty confident that you're town.




austinmcc, I thought this guy looked really scummy up until this post. It's especially his explanation of that single word "OBVIOUS" that seems very townie to me. It looks like he really thought carefully about my alignment and didn't consider covering his own ass or anything like that. I like that. Townie for now.

Mementoss is a little harder. I think he just voted me because I posted a dumb picture and corrected his grammar. That can be really antagonizing I hate when people do that to me when I make a dumb little mistake. Overall I've got a townie feeling about him.

marvellosity is pretty shabby for now. Show me some of that "thinky" that you promised before the game.

We also need everybody else to join the game and post some more.


Hiro had not even provided this. So we're left with the situation where Ange is pushing prplhz because he's far "scummier" than Hiro, based on the fact that prplhz hasn't scumhunted. HiroPro is only a "semi-lurker" despite the fact he had done absolutely no scumhunting himself and hadn't even provided a post like the one prplhz had above.

I think Ange is the final scum.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 16:53 GMT
#1625
Now I've done my scumhunting bit:

[image loading]
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 17:49 GMT
#1627
well, I will still be sexy. That's flip-independent.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 24 2012 22:19 GMT
#1632
On September 25 2012 04:16 HiroPro wrote:
Don't be fooled by the pictures, guys! He did it only under pressure from me so it doesn't really count. And if you look carefully he's holding a knife, so he's subconsciously indicating that he's a serial killer!


Ah, I see you take issue with the knife. Not the "Hiro is scum" bit. <3
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 25 2012 11:22 GMT
#1635
Guys, don't get lazy. Comment on what I had to say about Ange.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 25 2012 12:50 GMT
#1637
On September 25 2012 21:47 iamperfection wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 20:22 marvellosity wrote:
Guys, don't get lazy. Comment on what I had to say about Ange.

Well it kind of hinges on how much she looked at hiro those first days. I could see a scenario where she didn't take that hard of a look as town.

From my own perspective players come and go from my radar so maybe hiro wasen't on her radar and she didn't consider him that much.


the difference is that i pushed her on why prplhz and not Hiro
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 25 2012 13:31 GMT
#1640
On September 25 2012 22:30 Ange777 wrote:
The difference is that prplhz has posted things which made him scummy in my opinion while Hiro had not posted things which made him scummy in your opinion. We had totally different arguments and view points in this matter. Usually I try to refrain from reading to much into day 1 activity because it is only day 1 and it's not always accurate to judge people from their day 1 activity.




Actually Day 1 is arguably the most important day, imo.

What was specifically scummy about prplhz? I mean, I pulled up the quotes and your main argument was that he wasn't scumhunting. What else?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 25 2012 13:33 GMT
#1642
On September 25 2012 22:31 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 22:30 Ange777 wrote:
The difference is that prplhz has posted things which made him scummy in my opinion while Hiro had not posted things which made him scummy in your opinion. We had totally different arguments and view points in this matter. Usually I try to refrain from reading to much into day 1 activity because it is only day 1 and it's not always accurate to judge people from their day 1 activity.




Actually Day 1 is arguably the most important day, imo.

What was specifically scummy about prplhz? I mean, I pulled up the quotes and your main argument was that he wasn't scumhunting. What else?

[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 25 2012 13:41 GMT
#1644
On September 25 2012 22:36 Ange777 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 22:33 marvellosity wrote:
On September 25 2012 22:31 marvellosity wrote:
On September 25 2012 22:30 Ange777 wrote:
The difference is that prplhz has posted things which made him scummy in my opinion while Hiro had not posted things which made him scummy in your opinion. We had totally different arguments and view points in this matter. Usually I try to refrain from reading to much into day 1 activity because it is only day 1 and it's not always accurate to judge people from their day 1 activity.




Actually Day 1 is arguably the most important day, imo.

What was specifically scummy about prplhz? I mean, I pulled up the quotes and your main argument was that he wasn't scumhunting. What else?



Why is day 1 the most important day?

Show nested quote +
On September 19 2012 20:28 Ange777 wrote:
prplhz' two pages filter contains a lot of fluff and useless stuff. He has not made much effort in scum-hunting, just some occasionally prodding. He gives himself excuses for not reading the thread closely. His case on marv is really weak. And he is already back-paddling from said case. Scum.



Right, that quote was from a day later than when I was pushing you on prplhz/Hiro differences, before prplhz had made the case on me.

At the time the only differences were that... prplhz had posted a bit more than Hiro? There had been no scumhunting from either of them, and indeed as in my post last page, at least prplhz had made a post with thoughts on players.

Day 1 is important because you can pick up on interactions with players that are made before the game has been steered down a certain course.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 25 2012 13:51 GMT
#1646
When had he done that by the time stated?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 25 2012 14:32 GMT
#1648
ok, that adds up a bit better. we could beat around that bush for ages

I guess most of all I want to know who you want to lynch and exactly why (apart from Hiro ofc :D)
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 25 2012 19:43 GMT
#1657
well, if Hiro doesn't flip scum there's gonna be some post-game talk about playing to win-cons.

about zeph... gonna wait until after the flip when we have more info
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 25 2012 22:17 GMT
#1675
well, this is going rather well, if i do say so myself
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 25 2012 22:30 GMT
#1681
On September 26 2012 07:19 Mementoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2012 07:17 marvellosity wrote:
well, this is going rather well, if i do say so myself

your going to die according to hiro so leave a nice death note plz


I have lots of thoughts.

What I really want from everyone during this night phase is everyone's best efforts in finding the final scum, and discussing why they think their read is the final scum.

I want you guys as much as possible to do this before I die tonight, so I'm around to talk about it with you, as obviously it'll affect my deadline post too.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 26 2012 12:15 GMT
#1684
On September 26 2012 10:16 Hapahauli wrote:
Moar unconfirmed townies need to post. Still waiting on Zeph, Bluelightz, and Ange.

I'll get to my reads sometime tonight (or tomorrow), but my voting decisions tomorrow will be heavily influenced by how willing unconfirmed townies are to provide original analysis.

Also: @ Ange

What's with your activity level? You're much more active in your other town games, and you mentioned you'd be more available after the weekend.


Yeah, cmon guys :<
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 26 2012 12:32 GMT
#1686
lols
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 26 2012 13:11 GMT
#1692
On September 26 2012 22:05 Zephirdd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2012 21:30 Bluelightz wrote:
On September 26 2012 07:22 Hapahauli wrote:
For everyone not-confirmed town (Ange777, Zephirdd, iamperfection, Bluelightz), make sure you post your reads on each of the other players. The more open you are, the better chance we'll have of nailing the last scum tomorrow.


My reads are:

Ange - Probably last scum because of his 'lack' of interaction with Hiro before the day Hiro got lynched, his sheep vote on Hiro with no additional explanation or why did he believe the reason's other people pointed out.
Everyone else - Town.


hmmm so you're the SK? >_>"

My reads so far are..

Ange - town that people are shitting on. Everything she has done so far can exist from a town perspective.

Zephirdd - Fucking towniest guy ever


iamperfection - he was terrible day 1, looked better day 2. To be honest, his play makes some sense from a SK perspective: Blazinghand was a nobrainer shot, and he had a town read on austin closer to the end of the day - SK's usually want town mislynches dead when they think a scum catch is more likely the next day. austin was about to be mislynched, and I see no reason for scum to kill him, but that seems plausible for a SK to do.

Bluelightz - scum by process of elimination. I don't think ange is scum, I don't think IMP is mafia.

what do you guys think of this possibility? I'm trying to avoid the general mindset here, because I think Ange isn't as bad as make her out to be.


LAL

Everything BL has done can exist from a BL townie perspective too, no?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 26 2012 13:19 GMT
#1695
On September 26 2012 22:19 Zephirdd wrote:
@marv
Yes, but my feel with an ange lynch is that the same that happened with bluelightz on GSL will happen here. I don't want to open the thread and see that I lost because he was the scum.


Yeah, but that's just emotional claptrap without real factual or analytical basis
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 26 2012 14:58 GMT
#1698
On September 26 2012 23:57 Mementoss wrote:
why is everyone talking about an SK all the time when there isn't one, there hasn't been the KP for one.

Also I will be back later with reads really busy today.


unless you're lying about vigi / there's an unclaimed blue, there's an SK. More details at one minute before deadline
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 26 2012 15:01 GMT
#1701
On September 27 2012 00:01 Mementoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2012 23:58 marvellosity wrote:
On September 26 2012 23:57 Mementoss wrote:
why is everyone talking about an SK all the time when there isn't one, there hasn't been the KP for one.

Also I will be back later with reads really busy today.


unless you're lying about vigi / there's an unclaimed blue, there's an SK. More details at one minute before deadline


Alright lol, well I guess its seems a lot less likely from my perspective then.


no, it should seem a lot MORE likely from your perspective. Presuming you're vigi, you know you're telling the truth, and the setup is:

VJMMTTT = 3mafia + SK
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 26 2012 15:14 GMT
#1703
it's on the C9 setup page linked in the OP
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 26 2012 15:21 GMT
#1705
On September 27 2012 00:15 iamperfection wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2012 00:14 marvellosity wrote:
it's on the C9 setup page linked in the OP

well then im confused because im a regular townie


VJMM is Mementoss/me/prplhz/Hapa, the rest of the townies would be VTs
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 26 2012 15:23 GMT
#1707
On September 27 2012 00:22 iamperfection wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2012 00:21 marvellosity wrote:
On September 27 2012 00:15 iamperfection wrote:
On September 27 2012 00:14 marvellosity wrote:
it's on the C9 setup page linked in the OP

well then im confused because im a regular townie


VJMM is Mementoss/me/prplhz/Hapa, the rest of the townies would be VTs

3 townies flipped


The C9 setup is made by rolling 7 numbers, but 7 isn't the total number of townies
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 26 2012 15:26 GMT
#1709
*holds iamp's hand*

<3
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 26 2012 17:03 GMT
#1713
On September 27 2012 01:56 Mementoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2012 05:59 HiroPro wrote:
ATTENTION SERIAL KILLER


Mafia is shooting marv tonight. So shoot someone else.


This is the only reason why i think there might be a SK and cause of marvs mumbo jumbo set-up talk. But this makes me think mafia was a bit pissed to hit the SK either night 1 or night 2. And to try and set up a better chance for his last team mate to win. Or just to scare town into believing there is an SK. Another hypotehtical:

Night 1:
Mafia hits SK
SK hits BH
I hit mkfuba

Night 2:
SK hits austinmcc to attempt not to overlap mafia night kill
Mafia hits Hapa who was JK'd by Marv.

Hiro is using this post as a last attempt to try and even the score, and get 2 kills tonight to give his last teammate a better chance ftw.


The setup shows SK with the roles we know. What the fuck is this "the only reason I think there might be"
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 26 2012 17:11 GMT
#1715
On September 27 2012 02:11 Mementoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2012 02:03 marvellosity wrote:
On September 27 2012 01:56 Mementoss wrote:
On September 26 2012 05:59 HiroPro wrote:
ATTENTION SERIAL KILLER


Mafia is shooting marv tonight. So shoot someone else.


This is the only reason why i think there might be a SK and cause of marvs mumbo jumbo set-up talk. But this makes me think mafia was a bit pissed to hit the SK either night 1 or night 2. And to try and set up a better chance for his last team mate to win. Or just to scare town into believing there is an SK. Another hypotehtical:

Night 1:
Mafia hits SK
SK hits BH
I hit mkfuba

Night 2:
SK hits austinmcc to attempt not to overlap mafia night kill
Mafia hits Hapa who was JK'd by Marv.

Hiro is using this post as a last attempt to try and even the score, and get 2 kills tonight to give his last teammate a better chance ftw.


The setup shows SK with the roles we know. What the fuck is this "the only reason I think there might be"


I think you missed the "and cause of marvs mumbo jumbo set-up talk".

Also I was wondering does can J and D be interchanged for that set-up wiki.


It can, I checked with ghost
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 26 2012 17:27 GMT
#1717
no, you're a 1-shot vigi
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 26 2012 17:28 GMT
#1718
that's not what he meant, he meant he doesn't allow rolls with multi-shot vigilante
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 26 2012 17:35 GMT
#1720
he'd reroll it

basically you're a V

that's all you need to know
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 26 2012 21:00 GMT
#1722
So this was going to be a longish post, but I fell asleep this evening and I haven't got the energy for it. So here are my thoughts for my death.

Serial Killer

According to our known setup, and I spent some time clarifying some stuff with ghost, TTTMMJV means we have 3 scum and a serial killer. So really Mementoss must be telling the truth otherwise we'd have a setup without a Serial Killer, which is what he'd be hiding.

What I think happened with the night kills:

N1: either SK didn't shoot (no reason to reveal himself N1) or SK and Mafia ended up stacking on BH. I got roleblocked. No other roleblocks were claimed, so Mafia/SK might think there's no jailer.
N2: I have massive sway over the town having just pushed the Palmar lynch through. I also decided Hiro was scum during the day, and had strong suspicions of austin for his relations with Palmar. In this situation it'd be absolutely suicidal for scum to hit austin, so I'm going to presume it was the SK hit. I am also going to assume I saved Hapa from the mafia kill, as mafia probably thought they could kill him with impunity, thinking no JK from rb actions the previous night.

Who is scum?

I think Ange is the final scum. Various thinking errors like not seeing my point on austin, iamp at the time of the day 1 lynch, and something else that I forget right now. Hapa also notes her drop off in activity, and has the same scumread for somewhat different reasons, which is reassuring.

That said, it may not be the case. I know it goes without saying, but if you flip Ange and she's town, you need to be considering everybody, even people like iamp, who I've thought was town most of the game, but could be playing a really sneaky game under the radar as scum (I don't think it's the case, but it's possible)

I think Bluelightz is town. Don't know how to explain so well, but the feeling from everything I saw is that he's town. Could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Who is the Serial Killer?

I have very strong feelings that the Serial Killer is Zephirdd. I would say he is more likely to be Serial Killer than everyone else put together. Mementoss' case earlier kinda read like a SK case to me. My read throughout the game has been swinging on Zeph, which is a tell in that regard. Generally his play seems a bit weird, which points me towards him too. To reiterate, I really think that Zeph is our SK. iamperfection would be my 2nd choice, but he's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay behind Zeph in my SK reckonings.

What's going down tonight?

The expected turn of events is that Mafia hits me, and SK hits someone else. Both factions have a serious need to start killing off townies after two scum lynches in a row. It's always possible that SK holds their shot for some reason, or SK stacks on me (?) or basically something funky happens, and of course you should consider all possibilities, but I'm going to make the assumption that Mafia is hitting me, and SK is hitting someone else.

I jailed Ange tonight. This means various things. If I survive and someone else dies, it's fairly likely I've blocked mafia KP on to myself. If I die and no-one else dies, it means Ange is quite likely to be the Serial Killer, and the mafia's shot on me went through. If two shots go through, Ange is confirmed town.

Good luck town <3
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 26 2012 21:02 GMT
#1724
##Vote: ange777
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 26 2012 21:03 GMT
#1725
this game is over
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 26 2012 21:05 GMT
#1728
quite clearly shown in my deadline post why i'm alive
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 26 2012 21:41 GMT
#1735
On September 27 2012 06:34 Zephirdd wrote:
marv could you outline exactly why do I look like a SK?


no

can't be bothered

you just do
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 26 2012 21:45 GMT
#1740
gg

good god, i was right about everything
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 26 2012 21:49 GMT
#1744
On September 27 2012 06:48 Zephirdd wrote:
marv = MVP

my intention was to play townie like(except towards day3) in order to just survive till lylo. idk why the scum team didn't shoot marv day 2 though.

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/shvBuiPagrd
^qt where I talk to myself.


zeph
09-26-2012
05:20 PM ET (US)
god
damn
it

marv.



lol
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 26 2012 21:56 GMT
#1748
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmFbXZDfhcs-dEtoR2JodTBFd2kzWTd3OFMtZmVjYmc

day/night actions
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 26 2012 22:53 GMT
#1759
On September 27 2012 07:40 Blazinghand wrote:
Good game everyone! I had fun.

Town played quite well, but I can't believe you guys were always up on Bluelightz' ass. Bluelightz gonna Bluelightz.


I got all up on his ass so I could try to confirm the town read on him that I had, which is what occurred. I never wanted to lynch him despite what I threatened.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 27 2012 19:34 GMT
#1770
So yeah, thanks to the hosts, especially ghost of course.

Zeph: basically what I said in my jailpost, you had posts that seemed pretty townie but interspersed with posts that really weren't. So you were an odd read for me Day 2. After the nightkill of austin (making it obvious SK was present, and also your posts/behaviour around austin too) everything pretty much clicked into place and I became convinced it was you.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
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