Rockband Mini Mafia
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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On September 17 2012 05:45 Blazinghand wrote: you should call me Terran cause I'm all /in i'll 6 gate yo ass | ||
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On September 17 2012 06:14 Blazinghand wrote: Unless that's a 1 base build you gotta survive my 1 base attack first Fine. 4-gate. | ||
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On September 17 2012 06:17 Blazinghand wrote: ![]() In This Picture: Mvp presents his solution to the Protoss Deathball. Fine, I'll defeat your initial rush but then I won't be stupid enough to subsequently get my units trapped. Howzat? | ||
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![]() edit: also Mementoss, you're well aware that for me, "posting less" is still "posting considerably more than most other people" | ||
marvellosity
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hi all <3 | ||
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On September 18 2012 06:47 prplhz wrote: And how exactly do you know whether it was random or not? my superlative mafia skills tell me so | ||
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speak plainly or die like a little bitch. | ||
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On September 18 2012 09:55 Mementoss wrote: Answer this, why would scum make their first post that? It obviously wouldn't do anything towards getting Marv lynched. It would only bring negative attention towards himself. so that people like you would go "he must be town because scum would never do this!" hmm? | ||
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On September 18 2012 20:33 prplhz wrote: Disclaimer: I don't read any analysis that refer to the "Zephirdd Rule" also known as the "Kenpachi Rule Extended" because I think it's bullshit. Anyway, HapaHauli is playing active and townie and I have no interest in lynching him today. Ange777 is looking terrible though. @Ange777 Have you been scum at any point and can you direct me to one of those games? List of people who suck: Bluelightz, marvellosity. Agreed, I've not done anything yet. Something decent to come when I get a decent chunk of time today. Ange listed her entire history last game in GSL Open. Do your own research you lazy sod, especially when it was given to you just one bloody game ago. Funny how you forget so quickly. | ||
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On September 18 2012 13:58 Hapahauli wrote: Oh lastly, can someone who is familiar with Zeph's meta tell me if he's capable of making horribad cases as town? The confirmation-bias in his posts makes me think so, but I'd rather hear it straight from a vet or two. G'nite folks. Yes, he made the worst case in the universe on me last game. | ||
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On September 18 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote: you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on. Although i dont think that was the point of your case i think the purpose was to drive discussion which it has done. Kudos to you. The purpose of my random lynch was an attempt to drive some discussion. I had already discussed with marv after my previous game in which palmar suggested a random lynch in order to drive discussion on day 1. Thats why i find it extremely wierd that marv didnt think it was random when i had already spoken with him that i would do it in my next game. I say we respect his wishes. ## Vote Marvelosity Rereading the thread, and I need to comment on this. Random lynch isn't coming in to the thread and going "let's lynch this guy." You should know this VERY WELL having seen how Palmar went about it; he proposes a methodical method where we all go to some website he set up or some shit and roll a RNG. The point of Palmar's random-lynch is that it is demonstrably random to the whole thread. Yours was not demonstrably random. | ||
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On September 18 2012 09:39 austinmcc wrote: I got no problem with everyone being on me, that phase actually happens in a decent number of my games. But I have no ability to judge the clarity of my explanation. I need other thoughts on how clear you seemed to find it. It also helps me see the thought processes behind their own reads, except BH. When you question him, he appears to become Drazerk. Could you expand on this austin? | ||
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On September 18 2012 21:46 marvellosity wrote: Rereading the thread, and I need to comment on this. Random lynch isn't coming in to the thread and going "let's lynch this guy." You should know this VERY WELL having seen how Palmar went about it; he proposes a methodical method where we all go to some website he set up or some shit and roll a RNG. The point of Palmar's random-lynch is that it is demonstrably random to the whole thread. Yours was not demonstrably random. sorry to spam, carried on through the thread and people have brought this up already. Do carry on. | ||
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On September 18 2012 10:50 Zephirdd wrote: How does he defend prplhz? "Oh it's just bad play. hey maybe we should look at these two other players instead". A town player can never know if another player is just playing badly. A scum player, however, always does. I've done that countless times as scum. Dismissing a case on a townie by saying he isn't playing optimally, but not considering the fact that it could be a scum play. "The people most willing to jump on BH's case" are people who just agreed with a case that was just built early on. The thing about strong cases(I say BH had a strong case at that point) is that when you are scum and you recognize a case as a strong one, you will try to defend that townie in order to gain cred post-flip. The earlier you do it, the better, and if he is never lynched that townie will at least like you for a while. Hapahauli's main argument against BH's case is the sample size, where BH basically covered three months worth of games. Meta is not a productive argument when you go much farther back(I'd argue that three months was too much), and he says BH would need more research to have a good case. BH has pretty much echoed my thoughts on Zephirdd's case on Hapahauli. It's not good at all and as pointed out by Hapa himself contains multiple misrepresentations (over the top/scummy kept coming up and that's just basic reading comprehension). Further, the part of the case that I've just quoted makes almost no sense to me whatsoever. In the quote Zeph provides, where does Hapa say that prplhz is playing badly? He's saying he didn't like BH's case. A town player can very well know when another player is playing badly. For example, Zephirdd, you are playing badly whether you are town or scum. The entire case is built on stretches and misrepresentations. I would also like to talk about the retarded 'Zephirdd rule'. Let's break it down in essence - the first time someone says something stupid/bad/scummy, the first person to jump on it is scum. What does this actually mean? Town is supposed to let the first dumbass comment slide and only comment on the SECOND person being a dumbass/scummy? The whole rule basically proposes that the first person to be bad should be left untouched. I also think that he's using this rule as an excuse to make a case without actually having to think about what's gone on in the thread properly. He's spotted something that adheres to his 'rule' and has then fabricated the rest of the case out of nothing. Shame goodkarma is replacing out. His first post was scummy as hell. Not the general wishywashyness/not voting, but the fact that he was willing to talk about policy/trolling. I'm going to be keeping a close eye on his replacement. Look at this: On September 18 2012 07:17 goodkarma wrote: However, that prplhlz's play doesn't generate any meaningful discussion is a valid point. This is definitely scummy behavior. On Policy Discussion: As for how the game's started out: now for the last few games I've played in they start with trolling, which turns into hasty accusations, which then eventually turns into an actual game of scumhunting... We've already gone this direction again... I don't understand why policy has been so rarely brought up at the start of games (at least the games that I've played), as it is far more productive than trolling. I'd like to briefly discuss policy here: If for whatever reason we can't find someone who we feel has a decent chance of flipping scum, I propose we lynch a lurker. Tbh, I don't believe we will have this problem. But we should have some kind of contingency plan to fall back on if discussion, for whatever reason, takes us nowhere. The thread has already generated a scumread for GK, but for some reason he's derailing into policy discussion. Look at what he says - policy discussion is far more productive than the direction this game has gone. But look at how this game has gone. This might be the most productive Day 1 I've ever seen. Why is he complaining about it? As per usual I don't get BL's case on Mementoss. It looks like he's posting a load of unalignment indicative things and going "look! scum!". I'm pretty nullish on Mementoss right now. With the high activity of some portions of the town, I think there's gonna be at least 1 scum sitting back and enjoying the show. At the moment this leaves me with mfkuba, Ange777, and HiroPro. I know fuba from outside of TL Mafia and at the moment I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and see if he posts more. Ange just seems to be getting involved in the discussion, so fine. At the moment I'm looking at HiroPro. Distinctly from the other two, he's actually been around posting, except what he's been posting is minimal and effortless. He voted for goodkarma but with barely an elaboration (I elaborated more above and that was just in passing). Other than that, he's posted a few times, but actually done nothing at all. ##Vote: HiroPro | ||
marvellosity
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On September 18 2012 22:17 iamperfection wrote: The last 2 people that defended me were scum. They now im town so they defend me. Ange's main point was "who are your scumreads". Answer it. Do something. | ||
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On September 18 2012 23:54 Ange777 wrote: @marv: I don't remember if I've played with Hiro (probably not). Is there some meta play I should be aware of? Otherwise I can't understand why you are pushing a HiroPro lynch when I feel like prplhz is far more scummy. @iamperfection: Saying Zeph defended you by accusing your accuser is a stretch. Why wouldn't you accuse Mementoss instead who actually did defend you? Because prplhz has at least done *something* and HiroPro hasn't? | ||
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On September 19 2012 00:00 Mementoss wrote: Wouldn't by the same logic you would have MKFuba in there? Why did you purposely leave Palmar's name out when you clearly quoted him "defending" iamperfection in the same fashion I did in your own post before? Seen below: + Show Spoiler + On September 18 2012 23:48 Ange777 wrote: @Palmar: Why wouldn't scum say this? While I agree with Blazinghand and hapa leaning town, I can't understand how you are giving iamperfection townie points. I commented on fuba already, if you care to read my posts. The point with Hiro is that he posted several times but without any substance whatsoever. | ||
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On September 19 2012 00:04 Mementoss wrote: I am reading your posts, basically it says, MKFuba is doing the exact same thing as Hiro but I know him IRL so I'll focus on HiroPro, is this not correct? Incorrect, fuba basically hadn't posted AT ALL, whereas Hiro *was* posting, but what he was posting was worthless. How do you not see the distinction? | ||
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On September 19 2012 00:21 Palmar wrote: Nothing in my filter suggests I'm town yet. I've only been confirmed town once so far, but you're not good enough to notice it, so why do you want to be my friend? Pretty much this. If people want to make any sort of meaningful comparison, check out NMM3 (town) vs Bureaucracy (mafia) where Palmar actually did post a decent amount. The way Zeph backed down from his dumb case is super weak as well. I don't know why Zeph is picking on prplhz for asking questions when all Hiro has done is ask questions whereas at least prplhz made one post contributing some opinions. | ||
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On September 19 2012 00:35 Ange777 wrote: @marv: I am far more comfortable lynching someone I have a scum read on (prplhz) than a semi-lurker (HiroPro). Especially as I feel that his posting is exactly the same as GSL Open. What specifically makes prplhz scummier than HiroPro? | ||
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On September 19 2012 00:57 HiroPro wrote: k, Palmar is scum. hapa probably is too. Not because of Zeph's case though lol. Somewhat curious why you signed up for this game. Care to tell us? | ||
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On September 19 2012 01:23 prplhz wrote: HiroPro we're not lynching Palmar on day1 on anything other than a scum claim end of story. I'm sure you can see why so find something else to do with your time. What is this? Determining Palmar's alignment is obviously always going to be a crucial aspect of any game. Why are you trying to shut down discussion on this? | ||
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On September 19 2012 01:33 prplhz wrote: Well, goodkarma looks town because he was putting effort into his posts and because he was pushing the right agendas and because he replaced out (sorry, but town replaces out 10 times more than scum). Palmar is looking interested in this game and that's good enough for me for now. You will agree with me that HiroPro's case is not exactly overly convincing. No, it's not convincing, but I found his point about throwing a bunch of new candidates into an already divided town pretty decent. I disagree on GK for the reason I outlined earlier. | ||
marvellosity
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##Vote: Palmar fuck you | ||
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he should die he read my alignment correctly in NMM3 and I refuse to believe he'd so arbitrarily get it so wrong here straight OMGUS, deal with it | ||
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On September 19 2012 02:25 Hapahauli wrote: @ Marv Regarding this: Why do you find Hiro's point compelling if you think he's mafia? You had your vote firmly on him at this point, and I don't understand why you'd be all of a sudden so willing to listen to, what appears to me as a weak observation about Palmar? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember you being fairly critical of the town in DN Mini mafia for wanting to lynch Palmar D1. So I'm voting someone for not contributing, they contribute something I find interesting and I'm supposed to ignore it? Get lost. | ||
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1. lol call 3 people scum for no reason 2. give out townreads to make self look townie (wow I can do this too, does this actually give town credit around here now? I should have known) 3. vote someone for no reason na, piss off Palmar. | ||
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On September 19 2012 02:26 prplhz wrote: hapa too good ##Vote marvellosity weak as shit | ||
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On September 19 2012 02:16 prplhz wrote: Okay guys, I'm going to post a townie list! Green for emphasis! prplhz Blazinghand Palmar iamperfection Hapahauli Mementoss Gonna go read more filters. wow, this is super helpful for scumhunting! go prplhz, you're so awesome! | ||
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On September 19 2012 03:53 Hapahauli wrote: Let's not get carried away on the marv thing yet (@ prplhz). I'm generally very hesitant when lynching vets unless there's a really good case against them. I still need some answers, namely... @ Marv Also, are you voting Palmar because you think he's scum? It looks to me like you're using it as an insult as opposed to voting for scum. that's not a question, that's a stupid statement care to tell me how troll Palmar who made one post in Death Note is the same as retard Palmer in Rock Band who comes into the thread pointing fingers in an unsubstantiated fashion? Still, I think Palmar might just be awful this game. prplhz jumping on my vote, however, is scummy as shit. | ||
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So ##Unvote ##vote: prplhz Scumhunt or die like a squirmy thing that squirms. Don't want your stupid townlists that don't help anything or "lol nice catch I'm gonna vote this with no other reasoning". | ||
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On September 19 2012 04:24 Ange777 wrote: At the same time marv's OMGUS vote is plain stupid. If you are town you should stop this. If you seriously think the other is scum present a case. Lecturing me has a provenly high success rate of altering how I play. By 'provenly high' I mean absolutely zero. If you think I'm scum, vote me, if you don't, don't tell me how to play. And I mean this as politely as possible. | ||
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Like, Hapa is a clever fellow. The line of reasoning he proposed - "you think he's scum therefore why would you consider what he has to say" seems really off to me. Not quite as off as prplhz agreeing with it mind, but off nonetheless. | ||
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On September 19 2012 05:03 HiroPro wrote: Is this something that hapa normally feels? I remember him voting for Palmar in DN for no other reason than that Palmar was trolling. lol nice catch On September 01 2012 08:56 Hapahauli wrote: ##Vote Palmar He's the only guy who's been useless and isn't heading for a modkill. | ||
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Read the thread. | ||
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giggle | ||
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"yes that was a contradiction" isn't really a defence for making the contradiction in the first place. | ||
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gogogo | ||
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On September 19 2012 05:38 Zephirdd wrote: Huh. Missed page 15. K got an idea. Palmar, blazinghand, hapahauli. Your opinions on prplhz? Ange777, your opinion on marv? Marv and prplhz, your opinion on mmtoss and austin? These are important to make some sense here. You can ask stuff to me too. middle of the pack. Mementoss perhaps the town side of null, I have him down as "strident and sensible". austin the scummy side of null for being absent at important times and not being too relevant with his contributions. | ||
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On September 19 2012 05:55 Hapahauli wrote: Seasoned players vote like that all the time, and I have yet to connect a mafia-mentality with prplhz. So far all he's done is provide pointless townread and sheep pathetically, and you're reading town? | ||
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On September 19 2012 05:57 Blazinghand wrote: Any thoughts on my Mkfuba lynch? A lot of questions, but no responses from you guys. Feel free to support or criticize. I welcome it. I'm going to wait to see what he provides this evening when he's back from class. | ||
marvellosity
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nice job there | ||
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On September 19 2012 06:54 prplhz wrote: I think that Mementoss is town. I skimmed a few of his previous games (they're all conveniently in his profile and that's pretty nifty I gotta say) and I think his play looks a lot more like his town play than his scum play. where have you seen Mementoss play scum? | ||
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On September 19 2012 07:40 Quatol wrote: not really sure who i want to lynch right now palmar best come back with something reaaaaaaally good for now prplhz seems to have a genuine desire to lynch me, so that seems better ##Unvote I'm never going to stop doing this, goddamnit | ||
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On September 19 2012 07:47 iamperfection wrote: whats the point of having that smurf if everyone knows who it is just delete it i say. I use it for hosting LVII, it's actually Palmar's account | ||
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Please reconsider quickly because your reasoning on prplhz has been pretty weak as it is so far, especially given your previous prolonged absence. | ||
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"marv is better than this, therefore he is scum". I have the case open in a separate tab to see if I need to respond to specific points, but I can find very little worth responding to. Yes, my tone changed, I got a bit heated. What of it? If you want to go down that road, it's something I'm far more likely to do as town. WIFOMy? Sure, but Palmar's entire case is WIFOMy. Anyone go find me a single example of me 'losing the plot' as scum - you won't be able to find an instance, I wager. Or NMM3 where I was actually scum and Palmar called me out and I just flat out ignored him. On the other hand, as town I have been known to self-vote (Movie Mafia) or go into a 24-48 hour funk (Bureaucracy, when Foolish called me scum for no reason, and it knocked me sideways until I recovered and realised Foolish was scum). "Did you think I wouldn't tell people what I thought about other people in the game? Should I just not call out my reads because they "mess with an already divided town"?" Yeah except you gave very little reasoning for anything. You said austin is scum and provided one quote going "lol here's evidence" with no explanation of why the quote made him scum. You called Hiro scum with no reasoning, and ditto you laid a vote on me later with a one sentence explanation. That's pisspoor play, Palmar. I will be filtering this afternoon to see who I particularly want to lynch. I don't care if you/people thought I was weird for liking Hiro's Palmar point; to me it was a perspective that I hadn't thought of at all and so it was interesting. Additionally Hiro's points on Hapa's contradictions were strong. Listening to contributions from a day 1 scumread who was mainly a scumread for not contributing is not scummy behaviour. I'm not sure if it's enough from austin to make me not want to lynch him, but at the moment I'm leaning towards austin. He's been very absent through critical discussions when I know he could have been active, and that's scummy play. | ||
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On September 19 2012 20:28 Ange777 wrote: prplhz Nice excuse for not reading the thread. Why wouldn't someone read the thread closely? Bullshit is not always just bullshit, it can have town motivation or scum motivation. Is it because you are scum and already know the alignments? So when is it "later"? How do you want to convince us into lynching your allegedly top scum read when you yourself have reservations you are not willing to share with us? I just read your case properly Ange, and I've left in the quote above the two points I think are particularly good. I'd like an answer from prplhz sooner rather than later. | ||
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Yes, it is pisspoor play when you're bringing reads without explanation. You saying it isn't doesn't make it not. Sorry Palmar. And I'll defend myself how I see fit. Your case remains terrible. | ||
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Pisspoor, Palmar. | ||
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Herp derp I know these patterns so I could alter those if I want, yes yes. But how I have previously behaved as BOTH scum and town is relevant. | ||
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But you used it as a reason I am scum in your case. So I pointed out the alternative explanation. "or the other is to think I'm town and wrong, and in that case raging at me doesn't make much sense, should rather just go do something useful." because town marv doesn't rage at people he thinks are bad or wrong. Oh wait, he does. A lot. If you'd like to know, at the moment I think you're probably town, because you're pursuing me more fervently than I think you would otherwise. I am currently filtering but you're like a flame and I'm a moth. | ||
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Firstly, in response to Mementoss re: what I said about Hiro (probably gonna duplicate this as my post goes on, but meh): On September 19 2012 21:44 Mementoss wrote: I feel like the main part of the marv case is based on this post: I can see marvs logic behind it, but I think he just worded it in a way that seems really scummy. This is what I thought about it: On September 19 2012 21:03 marvellosity wrote: I don't care if you/people thought I was weird for liking Hiro's Palmar point; to me it was a perspective that I hadn't thought of at all and so it was interesting. Additionally Hiro's points on Hapa's contradictions were strong. Listening to contributions from a day 1 scumread who was mainly a scumread for not contributing is not scummy behaviour. I'm not sure if it's enough from austin[sic] to make me not want to lynch him, but at the moment I'm leaning towards austin. He's been very absent through critical discussions when I know he could have been active, and that's scummy play. Leading on from this, I'm a little suspicious of Hapahauli. Partly because I know what he's capable of when I saw him dominate town as scum in one of his newbie games. There are two reasons: Firstly, how he questioned me on listening to Hiro. I'm well aware that a lot of you disagreed with me finding Hiro's point on Palmar interesting, but I don't understand the thought train of not listening to a player just because you're voting for them, especially on Day 1. On September 19 2012 02:25 Hapahauli wrote: @ Marv Regarding this: Why do you find Hiro's point compelling if you think he's mafia? You had your vote firmly on him at this point, and I don't understand why you'd be all of a sudden so willing to listen to, what appears to me as a weak observation about Palmar? On September 19 2012 05:24 Hapahauli wrote: How is it off? It can be scummy in a certain context, and your explanation makes sense enough. It can be scummy in a certain context? What does that even mean? We only have one context here, and it's a Day 1 read for not contributing starting to contribute something I hadn't thought of. Don't know what context he was thinking of, or what answer he was possibly expecting from me. Secondly, and with greater weight, were the contradictions on Mementoss + voting that Hiro pointed out. It's a disconnect in thinking about an issue that is often explained by the fact that scum have to manufacture opinions, and therefore they don't match up. The fact he backed down from it doesn't change the fact he made it in the first place. In Movie Mafia Day 2 (hi prplhz) Snarfs plunked his vote on me (QQ, a theme) with a contradiction of dismissing my town motivation as WIFOM, and using WIFOM to give the scum motivation. I called him scum for it, and he backed down from it (because how can you maintain a contradictory position?) but he was scum nevertheless. There's not enough else in Hapa's filter to warrant me voting him or anything. A lot of what he's done seems constructive, so I'm not willing to go after him, but I'm uneasy. mkfuba: Someone else I'm kinda suspicious of but I don't want to vote today. Mementoss, I know you think we're buddying, but agreeing on a potential read is just that we agree on a potential read. The reason I'm suspicious of fuba is that he was absent for such a long time at the beginning of the day, so I was expecting to come back with something big and impressive in the evening, and he did not. Ameliorating these concerns slightly is that mkfuba is holy-shit wishy washy at the best of times. Seriously, go read any of his games, he's a known wishywashy meister. So this isn't really a tell either way for me. I need more information and posting from fuba to get a proper read on him. From what I know of him, he struggles to write posts as both alignments, but especially as scum finds it hard to find stuff to write about. So that's what I will be looking out for as the game goes on (presuming I survive this lynch :D) HiroPro: Suspicious of him too. If his contributions on Palmar/Hapa weren't things I'd even considered myself, I'd probably want to lynch him right now. Whether people agree with it or not, I found his point on Palmar pretty good, especially as Palmar at the time came in swinging with scum/town reads with practically no explanation. The fact that he picked up on Hapa's contradiction also shows an attentiveness to the thread and analysis that indicates townie. The problem at the moment is that he has not subsequently taken a firm stance on anyone or anything beyond these observations. Leaning kinda scummy. Zephirdd: I know he attracted a vote or two today, but I don't wanna lynch him. I thought his Hapa case was bad, and the fact he backed down from it even weaker. But his posts since then have had a collaboratory feel that I haven't felt from Zephirdd since we were town in NMM2 together. So leaning town. austin: yeah, I think I most of all want to lynch austin. Some of it's gonna be a rehash, but it's important for the whole thing. The reason people jumped on austin in the first place: On September 18 2012 06:55 austinmcc wrote: I don't know how anyone can munch on pudding. I DO kind of like that observation. It feels almost TOO obvious but...man it's kind of damning. Pretty much generally agreed that this was scummy, so won't delve too much. Where shit starts to diverge is on the response, which people read as townie. There's important time issues to look at. BlazingHand first pushes him to elaborate on it, and we get this as a response: On September 18 2012 07:16 austinmcc wrote: Elaboration on the second half - Pudding is soft. Munching feels like it requires chewing, crunching. Can't do that with pudding. As to the obvious bit, obvious is the wrong word. I like...neat observations like that. It says something, unsure what, about you that you could pull out the starts to prplhz's game just like POOF. Like, I key in on the initial question more than the actual scummy stuff, because there's a chance that prplhz doesn't realize he's started scum games like that. But ... he has to, right? I gotta leave work, but the thought process is convoluted here. Pudding blabla not satisfactory at all. His 'townie' explanation that follows only comes after me, Hapa, and BH apply further considerable pressure. On September 18 2012 08:03 austinmcc wrote: It's not that it's too scummy to be town. Because the part of your post that I key in on is that prplhz, in two other scum games, and in none of the games he's played as town (out of what you reference), opens in a similar manner. I think you are stretching when you say that the questions are scummy. Yes he can go look the guy up. Yes, he might ought to at least remember that the guy played in a game he hosted. But it's not like...asking a question about who someone is is scummy on its face. There's no scumhunting heuristic for "opens games asking questions about a particular player." It MAY be scummy as applied to prplhz, but it's not like every player who opens like that is probably scum. So then . . . working off that. If it's not scummy on its face, but might be scummy to prplhz, why? There's no objective pushed there, it's not like starting off a game with that post helps a mafia objective. If prplhz is scum and happens to start all his scum games this way, it's just something he does without knowing it. There's no objective pushed. Then finally, if starting games that way as scum is just something prplhz does without knowing it, not to push an objective, then . . . it's almost null? Not getting there in the same way "small sample size" gets there. The train of thought is... (1) This is a thing that prplhz has done in scum games (2) This is a thing that does not further mafia objectives, or actively DO anything really (3) Therefore, it's likely he's just doing it subconsciously (4) If he's doing it subconsciously, then it's not really a tell. Could argue that he only does it subconsciously as scum, but then you get the sample size discussion and there's no real proof either way. So obvious was really the wrong word choice, when I fully go through this. It's not a bad explanation as it goes, and I can see why people viewed it as townie. But the fact is that it only came after his previous, poor explanation. In other words, he had to give a good explanation because he knew a large part of town was hounding him for it. In this context, I believe it loses some of its 'townieness'. I bold the final line as well for a reason. Obvious was the wrong word choice, eh? Look at how austin usually posts - longwinded, carefully thought out. Yet in this instance he'd thrown out his 'obvious' and 'too damning'. It looks like austin is justifying his scummy words after the fact. austin has a few posts subsequently, but they are all focused on his own defence rather than any other scumhunting. Why is he so worried about how others view his defence? Why is he only talking about his own defence rather than being proactive elsewhere? Because he's worried that he needs to appear as town. After these posts, austin has been markedly absent from any of the considerable goings-on in this thread. We don't have an opinion on anyone or anything, except his own defence. His play is marked by being worried by how he appears, rather than finding scum. ##Vote: austinmcc The only other candidate I'm interested in is prplhz. Ange makes some very good points, especially the two I pointed out a little earlier: On September 19 2012 21:12 marvellosity wrote: I just read your case properly Ange, and I've left in the quote above the two points I think are particularly good. I'd like an answer from prplhz sooner rather than later. Unless these are answered satisfactorily, I am open to a prplhz lynch too. | ||
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On September 19 2012 22:41 austinmcc wrote: I have been absent. I am getting this vote into thread because the deadline is coming. I like it better than the other options that MIGHT be legitimate at this point, which seem to be ... just marv? ##Vote: prplhz I think I'd much rather lynch bluelightz, unless there's been any action on that front, but I don't believe that's going to happen. This apathy only serves to firm my read on austin. | ||
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On September 20 2012 00:15 Palmar wrote: Get off my Hapa bro's case. Wtf is this shit, prplhz is not scum look at his big post after he started caring. why does that make him town? | ||
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On September 20 2012 00:02 austinmcc wrote: Look at all the reactions to this post I made. Palmar thinks I'm scum just from the too obvious comment. Marv found it scummy. Hapa found it scummy. I think another one or two people did as well. But Mementoss's reaction to my comment felt different. I don't read much into this. It's the kinda post I can see being made as either alignment. On September 20 2012 00:02 austinmcc wrote: He mentions me later, after Bluelightz questions him a little: I guess...I didn't feel pressured by his post. He doesn't call me scum. He doesn't call my scummy. He doesn't REALLY say anything about me above. This isn't a super-strong point, as indecisiveness usually ~ scumminess, but my problem with his initial reaction was that it wasn't strong, didn't call me out, didn't end in a vote, nothing. So I find his characterization of that post as being the only pressure he's put on a person other than prplhz this game to be off. It's not outright, flashing lights, scummy. But when it's a response to pressure and you're sort of...almost misrepresenting an earlier post, misrepresenting your play, it comes off scummy. It comes off like you don't have a good handle on the actions you've taken and are slightly scrambling to explain yourself to pressure. The thing is, I think you're actually misrepresenting Mementoss somewhat here. He said "the only other person I remotely pressured" - the way this is phrased clearly indicates to me that he wasn't calling it significant pressure. "I remotely pressured" - as in, I kinda pressured a bit. But you're saying that he's misrepresenting it as proper pressure, when I don't think that's actually the case. Some of the other parts of your case are stronger, though. The bits with the questioning on me/fuba without coming to an explanation. I think you also have a valid point that he voted prplhz early, but never updated his read on him despite all prplhz's other posting. Why has it taken you so long to come into the thread and contribute something, austin? | ||
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On September 20 2012 00:49 austinmcc wrote: So cruel. But so true for most of my D1 performance. What gets me though is that there has been so much to talk about in between where you went silent and this case. It bugs me tremendously that you say there was "nothing that caught your eye" or in other words nothing that made you want to get involved. It shows spectacular apathy even for your 'traditional' Day 1s. Gonna have to cogitate on it :/ | ||
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On September 19 2012 21:44 Mementoss wrote: Also more to note, this "divided town" thing how is it bad? It seems to me that we caught scum very early in the day 1, and scum is scrambling to put cases on everyone else to get the attention away from prplhz, the votes haven't been coming easy on prplhz despite him being the main discussion of day 1. Hell, he hasn't even reached majority yet this game. He's also had his share of people call him or his posting townie, yet prplhz hasn't really came back to scumhunt. Probably referring to this, Hapa. | ||
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On September 20 2012 02:56 mkfuba07 wrote: EBWOP: "He mentions them elsewhere, but doesn't explain them until after he's posted the list." I feel like at that point it's not even a summary, it's just a list of people who don't have to worry about being pressured by prplhz. Sorry for posting so much right now. I believe I have class during the deadline, and while I will have access to a computer for the later half of it, I can't guarantee that I'll have time to keep posting then. As your vote is currently on austinmcc, care to comment on his case and what you make of his recent activity? | ||
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On September 20 2012 03:04 Blazinghand wrote: It's amazing how prplhz only puts effort into this game when tons of people pressure him Could you be a little more constructive rather than your two offhand remarks about austin and prplhz you've done so far today? | ||
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My reads have fluctuated somewhat from earlier today. I agree with Hiro on the tone of your posts; I had found something off about your demeanour (I had thought it was that you were trying too hard to create yourself a story) and what he says rings true. My opinion on fuba has edged more towards scum. I find it bizarre that he's willing to vote you, but then pursues posts and content regarding prplhz, while completely disregarding any of the posts that you have made in the interim. If you were his main scumread (especially as most of his case seemed to be your inactivtiy) I would think that he should be interacting with your contributions since. I'd like others' opinion on this. To BlazingHand: the reason it was a pile of shit is that far more people have expressed the opinion that I'm town or a bad lynch than they have with austin. Corralling people into voting on specific candidates like that is bad play. To HiroPro: austinmcc did say that in Bureaucracy to be fair to him, or at the very least he said it to me with regards to his play in Bureaucracy. He's not lying about that. You're not going to get a lynch through on Hapahauli at this stage I think, so vote austin with me. Palmar's absence is fucking pathetic. prplhz has annoyingly come in to defend himself and then provided nothing else. I'm finding that pretty scummy because it hasn't moved conversation forward. On the flip side, I found Hiro's arguments about how prplhz behaves as town (sheeping strong players) as quite convincing; further I think prplhz's frustration is genuine; I also see (ironically) prplhz's failure to understand that listing townreads with explanation is bad as somewhat townie. I don't really wanna lynch Mementoss right now. You had some good points but I think his defence is genuine; in addition to this I feel that he's been playing a little lazily, which I can empathise with. In both PTP and LVII too he seemed quite scummy because of a lack of effort at points. | ||
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On September 20 2012 04:21 Palmar wrote: I don't even understand this game anymore. Here's the deal. prplhz isn't scum. There was a legit concern earlier that he might be but anyone that still thinks he's scum has their heads faaar up their asses. mementoss is probably not scum. marv and austinmcc both have a good chance of being scum, but I feel considerably better about marv. It's also very strange how hard it is to get any kind of a train rolling against marv. I've already explained why this guy is the one that needs to hang today. Can we consolidate there, please? well done for saying absolutely nothing. Stellar play right here. | ||
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On September 20 2012 04:26 marvellosity wrote: well done for saying absolutely nothing. Stellar play right here. For you, then Palmar: 1) still no explanation on why prplhz is town. "look he made a long post" is not an explanation 2) saying mementoss is probably not scum without giving any thoughts as to why either way is also completely useless 3) it's hard to get a train rolling because you're wrong and your case was bad, as pointed out by various people happy? | ||
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On September 20 2012 04:43 Palmar wrote: Fuck it. I'm off for a bit. I'll rather no-lynch than do a dumb lynch so see you guys later. nice moves there | ||
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On September 20 2012 05:15 Ange777 wrote: Okay, so I am trying to understand this case against austin. Why does him posting a very poor first explanation before delivering a satisfying reasoning for his behaviour makes him lose "townieness"? Shouldn't the fact that he made such a bad explanation make him more townie as apparentely he was not worried about defending himself when he first made that post? Seeing his recent vastly improved posting (especially his defense and scum-hunting whilst under pressure) I don't think austin is scum. You'll have to explain to me why giving a weak explanation on a weak comment makes him townie, Ange. My train of thought was that he was waffling in his defence to the post, hoping to brush it under the carpet, instead of straight out explaining why he made the vote in the first place. The fact that he needed to be further pressured to clarify his comment makes him lose townieness, because by this point he is forced to make a good explanation or face being lynched. That said, austin's concerns on my company on him are legitimate. iamperfection is giving absolutely no reasoning, and he completely correct that I asked fuba for thoughts on austin, WHO HE IS FUCKNIG VOTING, and he gave me thoughts on Mementoss instead. Arg. | ||
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yeah, i know right. IT DOES MATTER BECAUSE YOU ARE ONE OF THE MAIN CANDIDATES | ||
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##Vote prplhz best get talking, prplhz. | ||
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On September 20 2012 05:39 Mementoss wrote: are we seriously going to let a no lynch happen thanks for this, very helpful | ||
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On September 20 2012 05:40 Ange777 wrote: @iamperfectino: What's this? @marv: My point is that giving a weak explanation fits a town player who should not be scared of being accused as scum. Being town there is no need to write your posts carefully which could lead to a weak first explanation before a satisfying second one. I see your point of view but I don't agree with it. I can understand how it can be viewed both ways. But given the context of his whole play at the time, the only thing he'd done is post about 10 times on defending himself, and not at all at hunting scum. | ||
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On September 20 2012 05:41 prplhz wrote: @hapa you best get in here and change your vote brb 17 mins lol yeah, this guy can die. | ||
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On September 20 2012 05:46 Mementoss wrote: cool I'd like to point out 3/6 pages of your unhelpful filter right now but I won't also this lol + Show Spoiler + On September 17 2012 20:58 marvellosity wrote: Before this starts - gonna try to be somewhat less posty and more thinky this game. Let's see if I succeed. you failed. At least we have the 7 votes now for the first time since the start of the game. The resistance on this lynch has been incredible all cycle. it is overmatched by the rest of my filter with helpful input, unlike yours. | ||
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On September 20 2012 05:48 Hapahauli wrote: Why the fuck are we lynching prplhz? because he refuses to be held accountable for his read on me by answering anything to do with my play since he committed his vote on me. This in addition to his weak swap to vote on austin. All we're left with on prplhz is a non-case on Ange and his refusal to elaborate on his only scumread. That's why | ||
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On September 20 2012 05:56 prplhz wrote: people not unvoting just confirms how you're all morons no it doesn't because there's two conflicting claims. what do you make of hapa's mason claim on you? quick | ||
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On September 20 2012 06:01 prplhz wrote: too late anyway hapa my mason buddy sorry for being a total moron but jesus christ so were you i can't believe you just did this. wow | ||
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On September 20 2012 06:03 Mementoss wrote: vote for worst claim in history both timing and context. seconded | ||
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On September 20 2012 06:05 Hapahauli wrote: I was out until 20 minutes ago. I though people wouldn't be this fucking stupid and voting Prplhz when meta evidence was the polar opposite. ingame play trumps meta | ||
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On September 20 2012 06:11 prplhz wrote: shitting on dead people classic blazinghand it's literally all your fault, so yeah, whatever man. | ||
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On September 20 2012 06:25 Hapahauli wrote: Mkfuba anyone? Anyone? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=36#715 I've pretty blatantly shown my interest in lynching fuba. | ||
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On September 20 2012 07:20 Hapahauli wrote: Oh geezus goddamn christ I misread your post. "liking austin more right now" = thinking austin is more townie as opposed to thinking austin is more scummy. Anywho, surprised marv sheeped me on that one. yeah, you were sheeping me, darling | ||
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On September 20 2012 07:30 Hapahauli wrote: No no no, I mean I thought marv would have corrected me on that or something. He's usually very big on attacking bad logic. i thought you'd picked up something weird with the wording or whatever. I do think fuba is scum, though. | ||
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On September 20 2012 08:07 Mementoss wrote: Since we both have a scum read on MKfuba who would your 2nd best scum read be atm. um, no idea right now. BL as per usual is some floating weird entity, and as much as Palmar is playing atrociously, he did a similar ragequit type shit in NMM3. As with prplhz I find it extremely odd he's not willing to address any of my opinions or play today (calendar). Maybe I'll have to relook at Zephirdd? | ||
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Like, he's pursued me and ragequit and been an arse in a general townie way, but look at this: On August 23 2012 19:05 Palmar wrote: Okay, I have a lot of things to catch up on. I have a theory that GM trolled me this game, and everyone rolled scum, that's how you guys seem to be playing anyway. VisceraEyes is the key to this game. Early on I suspected him heavily of being scum, but his constant flip-flopping and random attacks, along with a surprisingly well thought out accusation of Lvdr made me rethink my stance on him, and at the moment I'm going to risk counting him among town. So now that I've put VisceraEyes in the town category, it's time to start thinking about how people connect to him, and have reacted to his presence. I'd like to congratulate the scumteam though, there's not a single one of you completely obvious by now, which is strange. Lvdr: Lvdr does have a few weird things in his filter indeed: Recycling my questions is hardly relevant, especially since he was the one claiming the game was in "downtime". Which to any sane townie should mean that the heat needed to be turned on, instead of just accepting shitty play. This doesn't make him scum though, he might just have no idea how the game works. Asking for an explanation of the random lynch strategy is dumb, but I've seen enough dumb people do it to not try to link it to him being scum. I also hate the constant ##FOS bullshit, it's pointless, no one gives a fuck about what you suspect if you have nothing to act on it. Lvdr has multiple things that make me think he might be scum. And the point VisceraEyes made about him assuming VE is town, is actually quite valid. The problem is that once again there's a chance Lvdr might just be a townie who assumes VE is town. talismaniac: Very little content. He's been completely non-commital throughout the game. There exists a connection between him and Lvdr, in the form of talismaniac sheeping VE immediately based on the "scumslip" that happened. This doesn't necessarily mean they cannot both be scum (lvdr and talis), but it makes it less likely. talis also has an extremely large percentage of his posts focused somehow on VE, I'm not sure what to make of it. If we do default to a lurker lynch, I think talis should be the one hanging, he's basically done nothing through the game. Obvious: This is the problem when play with new people, I have no idea how bad obvious is at mafia. List of obvious's achievements this game: 1. talk like yoda for a bit 2. talk about policy lynches 3. post an analysis on kville, basically rehashing what had already been said 4. try to lynch me on dumb policy anyway. Here's the problem. Obvious's play is completely fucking terrible. the question remains, is he scum because of it? He's basically throwing away any intention of actually trying to scumhunt by wanting to lynch me based on the fact that I want to randomly lynch a guy on day 1. Now everyone knows by now that the random lynch has nothing to do with alignment, it's been suggested by townies and scum throughout tl mafia games, and the effort involved is simply typing "hey let's random lynch, ok guys?". It's a complete and utter null tell about someone's alignment. What is interesting is that Obvious has completely neglected to look at my play beyond that notion. If you want to lynch someone, you have to look at what he has done in the game. Trying to lynch me is not scummy, per se, it's how he's trying to lynch me. Can someone who's played with obvious before tell me just how bad he is? Like you have to be pretty fucking bad to think this kind of playing is valid, but I've lynched terrible townies before... marv Fuck you marv, if I had a gun I'd shoot you for being useless and terrible. Shady Having not played with him before and knowing nothing about the guy, I wrote him off as a pointless townie. Some people seem to be suggesting that he might be much more outspoken when he's town. There's a link between shady and ve, it's very unlikely they're scum together, but seeing as I think VE is town, that's kind of redundant. He might well be scum, for all I know, but not knowing his meta there's nothing glaringly obvious about his play at the moment. Kville Strange one, similar position to obivous. He came into the thread in the worst possible way, but I like his attitude after fucking up. There's no persistance on the marv vote, he's willing to reconsider his stances and such. I already explained how I felt about him coming into the thread here: I'm going to roll the dice on town for this guy. I'll probably write more and make a decision what I want to lynch at the moment I'm leaning obvious. Like genuine, constructive opinions on a number of players. Here we have "lol prplhz town you asses lol long post" and that's about it. | ||
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On September 20 2012 13:23 Zephirdd wrote: Yo hapa, you got a pretty good point on mmtoss activity prior to the deadline. Tomorrow(by that i mean ingame tomorrow) ill take a look at him. Bluelightz is doing his thing. You can never read him until lylo. Hopefully someone kills him before nothing could be further from the truth, but whatever. | ||
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Mementoss, saying "don't waste time on me" isn't a very productive thing to do. Tell us where you were leading up to deadline, and why that meant you could handily appear straight after? | ||
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On September 20 2012 19:56 Palmar wrote: Or are you just saying that because it's inconvenient for you that I actually agree with prplhz's reads? No, because you're a completely inconsequential threat to my lynch due to the fact you're playing like a brainless newb. It's a pile of crap because as per usual you have given no reasoning behind anything, despite being absent and having had the time to do so. | ||
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On July 17 2012 23:06 Palmar wrote: layabout Sloosh Sandroba Probulous HiroPro Foolishness VisceraEyes Bill Murray Gonzaw Meapak_Ziphh Supersoft austinmcc Wherebugsgo Katina syllogism GGQ Blazinghand Chezinu Kurumi rastaban Mattchew marvellosity risk.nuke Q-bert-Z RebirthofLegend Palmar Zealos Thank me later. On September 18 2012 23:05 Palmar wrote: ok I've caught up. Will read more attentively later, some of you guys textwall like bosses. Here's my current idea of the thread. I will deny! iamperfection Hapahauli blazinghand Palmar Junglers Zephirdd Mementoss bluelightz prplhz Ange777 mkfuba07 5 carries on your team Marvellosity HiroPro austinmcc | ||
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On April 30 2012 23:34 Palmar wrote: This is like the first rule of day 1 mafia play, something I consider my area of expertise, make people accountable for their actions. What do we have to hold Palmar accountable for in Day 1? | ||
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On September 21 2012 00:10 Blazinghand wrote: In terms of what we hold Palmar accountable for D1, it's "pushing his case poorly and defending prplhz not at all despite thinking he's town and prplhz being the biggest wagon" Bingo!! On September 19 2012 18:17 Palmar wrote: This prplhz lynch is not good btw, I don't think he's scum now. On September 19 2012 18:27 Palmar wrote: Because I don't think he's scum? On September 20 2012 00:15 Palmar wrote: Wtf is this shit, prplhz is not scum look at his big post after he started caring. On September 20 2012 04:21 Palmar wrote: Here's the deal. prplhz isn't scum. There was a legit concern earlier that he might be but anyone that still thinks he's scum has their heads faaar up their asses. On September 20 2012 04:43 Palmar wrote: Fuck it. I'm off for a bit. I'll rather no-lynch than do a dumb lynch so see you guys later. On September 19 2012 18:23 Ange777 wrote: I'll check marv's filter one more time. Meanwhile, tell me why you don't wanna lynch prplhz. On September 20 2012 05:22 Ange777 wrote: EBWODP: Oh and I am still waiting for an answer to this, I don't think I have seen a reply to it yet: AT NO TIME DID PALMAR WRITE: Any explanation at all while prplhz was on the chopping block On September 20 2012 06:03 ghost_403 wrote: prplhz, one of the Sisters in da Band, was kicked out of da Band. | ||
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I don't want a bitchfight, I want people to think about his play critically, which is why i'm bringing this to the thread. | ||
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On September 21 2012 00:27 Zephirdd wrote: Ok let me give a bit of critical thinking. He was playing townie like up until a point in time. That was when he entered the thread, where he was sharing his reads. HiroPro made a good point on "town is a clusterfuck and he only threw new candidates" but I didn't think it mattered because Palmar is used to bring different stuff into the table, because he plays by himself a lot. I even would argue that it's normal for Palmar to be kinda bad on day 1 because that's how he lives past night 1 - or that was the case for some time at least, it's been a long time since I last played with him. However, if he does not step up his game drastically on day 2, I'm all into killing him. Day 2 is the day he shines. that's why I quoted that post from NMM3 earlier. Look at the explanations he gives for his reads. Actual paragraphs with thought out points on how things in the game have worked and related to each other. Look at how he can be held accountable for that post and how you can see his thought processes. Then look at the "lists" he creates when playing scum. Here's another: On June 13 2012 05:39 Palmar wrote: Can you stop textwalling? Radfield and Ace were much more fun. Also, in case I die, this is the list of town from towniest to scummiest. Radfield VisceraEyes Greymist Ace chaoser mrwiggles gonzaw BrownBear | ||
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On September 21 2012 01:32 Hapahauli wrote: I'll retract on Mementoss for now, and I think Bluelightz is worth taking a look at. Bluelightz has two substantial posts in his filter: Case on Mementoss ----> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=9#179 He states that Mementoss isn't contributing, then proceeds to quote like 10 of his posts. More importantly, this was all on day 1, where mementoss's activity levels were acceptable by any standard. Case on Prplzh ----> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=25#484 This is a really interesting case, because nowhere in the case does he say that Prplzh is "scummy" or is scum. He repeatedly mentions how certain aspects of prplzh's play upsets him ("ticks him off", yadda yadda), but it's not clear if he's even voting prplzh because he's scummy. It also seems somewhat of an "overkill" case. At that point in the game, prplzh was the clear leading vote candidate with plenty of cases out there against him. Making some gigantic summary post wanting to lynch prplzh is completely unnecessary and reads like an attempt to fake a contribution. In addition, he has zero interaction with his #1 scum read. Your point on Palmar's vote or lack thereof is really strong, Hapa. On BL: yes, it's easy to do analyses on BL going "wtf" but you need to be able to explain how it's different from how he normally plays town :/ | ||
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On September 21 2012 01:37 Hapahauli wrote: Well actually, you had that quote in Normal Mini III about Bluelightz meta - he's obsessed with town when he's town, and scum when he's scum. Now I know you were scum that game, but I'm curious if you think that read is accurate? Worth noting that Buelightz has no town reads this game. That would be the most compelling evidence, I think. Even in GSL he voted a 'null' read on Day 1 because everyone else seemed town. | ||
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On September 21 2012 01:37 marvellosity wrote: That would be the most compelling evidence, I think. Even in GSL he voted a 'null' read on Day 1 because everyone else seemed town. On the flip side to this (talking to myself here), Bluelightz backing down off Mementoss like that is a typical BL town thing to do. | ||
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On September 21 2012 01:51 Hapahauli wrote: Any examples? After looking at his meta a bit, I'd expect townie bluelightz to give a town read on Mementoss at some point in the game. Really I find it odd that he tunneled prplzh without giving opinions on any of the other lynch candidates. I don't find that odd in the slightest, to be honest. In NMM3 he called Obvious scum, Obvious made some response, Bluelightz backed down immediately. | ||
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On September 21 2012 01:59 Hapahauli wrote: Eh? I just read that and that's not what happened at all: 1st post: 2nd post: He then posts 1 or two more things on Obvious then gets caught up in defending himself, jumping around votes and suspicions. He finally votes obvious on the lastminute bandwagon, but follows it up with this: Just a remarkably different mentality - much less sure of himself, and much more open with his reads. right, there are significant differences, i meant the way he was suspicious and backed down from it | ||
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On September 21 2012 02:29 Palmar wrote: Mementoss is almost certainly town. If I do end up dead tonight you really, really need to take a critical look at the fact that prplhz and I agreed on reads. It's really fucking frustrating that you paint someone scum, then town proceeds to ignore you once you get shot. Always look at everything said by the people night killed by mafia. Do so critically, but usually there is a reason the people who died, die. I think marv needs to die tomorrow. If we have a vigilante, the safest targets are HiroPro and perhaps mkfuba07. Generally it's easier to shoot lurkers as they won't be missed. Hapahauli is confirmed town with no action so he should absolutely be protected tonight. However it's probably better that we assume there is a chance BlazingHand and I get protected because that might deter scum from shooting us. it's very unfortunate prplhz messed up the claim but once he did it I suppose there wasn't anything to do but lynch him. We could've ended up with 2 confirmed townies. I was pretty sure they were both town, especially hapa, but really prplhz too. The reason I didn't want to switch to austinmcc is that two of my strongest scumreads were already voting for him as I pointed out. Now there's obviously the chance that austin is an SK and I was just being a stubborn asshole, but with hiro and marv both trying to kill him, I saw very little reason to think he might flip scum. mementoss's interactions with blazinghand during the first moments of the game seem very straightforward and matter of fact. there is no sense of panic as he breaks down the points Blazinhand raised against him. The main reason I think he's town are the two big posts he came up with after I posted the case on marv. In both of them he's genuinely looking at the situation as it is, instead of as he wants it to be. His addition of mkfuba07 into the mix and the connections between marv and mkfuba is a very valuable addition to the thread, something I would not expect anyone that's scum to pick up on. It proves he's reading the thread with a lot of attention. Regarding my own meta, marv is using it in the wrong way, obviously. The problem is marv seems to have a lot of time to post, so read everything said and done for it's content, not for who is yelling the loudest. The thing is, I positively invite people to read me for my content, especially by this stage of the game. Except the funny thing is, you haven't addressed any of it since you made your original case on me. Further, you're still calling Hiro a scumread despite never having given reasons for doing so. You always think people use meta the wrong way. You get lynched as scum every time you are scum on meta, and it's invariably correct. | ||
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On September 18 2012 23:05 Palmar wrote: ok I've caught up. Will read more attentively later, some of you guys textwall like bosses. Here's my current idea of the thread. I will deny! iamperfection Hapahauli blazinghand Palmar Junglers Zephirdd Mementoss bluelightz prplhz Ange777 mkfuba07 5 carries on your team Marvellosity HiroPro austinmcc On September 21 2012 02:29 Palmar wrote: If we have a vigilante, the safest targets are HiroPro and perhaps mkfuba07. Generally it's easier to shoot lurkers as they won't be missed. The reason I didn't want to switch to austinmcc is that two of my strongest scumreads were already voting for him as I pointed out. Now there's obviously the chance that austin is an SK and I was just being a stubborn asshole, but with hiro and marv both trying to kill him, I saw very little reason to think he might flip scum. ah, shit. Absolutely no reason given whatsoever at any point. Bugger. | ||
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Any fucking reason at all. | ||
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On September 21 2012 05:03 Hapahauli wrote: Ok actually this post by mkfuba is really freggin weird. Marv asked him for his read on austinmcc. "Absolutely!" "MMtoss is playing strange..." "I'll look at austin later" Wat? Yes, I specifically pointed this out as why I'd gotten a scumread on mkfuba (as had one or two others). Pay attention, dear. | ||
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The point with fubaa is that he was weak giving his reasoning on austin, which took fucking forever anyway, and then when pressed to comment on austin then commented on Mementoss instead. He managed to create a situation where he doesn't have to be held accountable for any of his reads because we don't even know what they are properly.. | ||
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On September 21 2012 05:09 Hapahauli wrote: Yeah see I wasn't around too much late yesterday =( order of things to do: read things and THEN comment, rather than comment and find out it's been said ![]() | ||
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On September 21 2012 05:20 austinmcc wrote: marv, thoughts on Hiro and Bluelightz? You had hiro scummy for a bit, agreed with a lot of what he was posting, and generally had a lot of ... I dunno, distant interaction? with him. Agreeing with his points, directing others to look at his posts for your thoughts. Where does your read on him stand atm? Also, can you give any sort of read on ange? I agree with Hapa's assessment of Ange. Leaning town because of effort. I can't find any particular malicious intent or direction in her posting. I've given what thoughts I have on BL, waiting to hear more from people like BH before trying to firm up further on him either way. Hiro I'm leaning town on now. In his massive post whenever it was he brought up a load of well thought out points, including analysis and quotes from other games, such as prplhz sheeping Palmar, and my tendency to believe the scummy things I do point towards me being town. I also liked his assessment on how you were appearing apologetic. Basically I'm leaning town on him because many of his thoughts have been unique this game and I like the way he thinks and agree with it much of the time. The thing that stops me giving a firm read of town is that he's still more... detached from the thread than he might be. | ||
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On September 21 2012 05:33 Zephirdd wrote: nobody cared about my palmar post mesad TT hey babe, it was good! I thought similar things, but held my thoughts on it because it presumed I'd damned Palmar in my mind already (getting there xD). One of my thoughts when reading that post was "wifom bombs" you just set it out more neatly and fully. I remember at some point Palmar saying that playing scum is about misleading and sowing as much confusion into town as possible before he dies, as he would inevitably die, and that post matches that. | ||
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On September 21 2012 05:37 Mementoss wrote: maybe im biased since it was defending me but I think you were too critical on many factors, Marv was harping him all game about not explaining things and I think he explained himself pretty good there. Also about the dead people it's true that people should pay more attention to them, but not completely rely on it. I guess is what I'm saying is I don't agree with almost any of your post lol. he explained jack shit. | ||
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he didn't 'explain' anything on his 2nd highest scumread, HiroPro. And he barely explained why he abandoned the lynch and didn't vote austin. Hapa has alraedy covered that one. It's a pile of crap. | ||
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1) posting largely unexplained lists, as he does as scum 2) calling one of the main wagons town, but never ever explaining why he's town and letting him get lynched 3) afking for the lynch, again doing nothing to save his town read 4) not voting for his other scumread on contradictory reasons as *someone else* pointed out. 5) calling Hiro scum without ever giving any reasons This is nothing to do with any blinkers I have, dear. | ||
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He's not a newbie anymore but his brashness seems to be the polar opposite of that. | ||
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On September 21 2012 06:38 Palmar wrote: I believe mementoss's claim and I think it's way too bold for an SK to do that on day 1. If you weren't to lynch me today, who would you lynch and why? | ||
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On September 21 2012 06:42 Palmar wrote: HiroPro. Would you agree on lynching him? I don't have the time to write up a case now, but because mostly of weak presence and strange things I've noticed about him. No, I don't want to lynch HiroPro for reasons I elaborated on shortly before the deadline. I do agree with you about the weak presence, though. Please write up a case as soon as you can this cycle as for obvious reasons it will affect my read on you. | ||
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I understand why you're voting for Bluelightz, but I'm finding it really hard to feel enthusiastic about wanting to lynch him, but I'll look at him again and see what I can glean. I'm going to have a hard look at austin again. I know it looks like he suddenly started contributing tonnes, but I know he'd be capable of doing that out of necessity if he needed to. His extremely long absence still doesn't sit well with me, despite what came after. And his comments like "if I were scum, I'd be caught for doing weird setup shit (paraphrasing), not what I'm doing now!" Honestly I'm finding it superhard to envisage THREE scum right now (or 2/1, whatever). | ||
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On September 21 2012 07:43 Hapahauli wrote: It's pretty strange, given that ange herself was active in the thread during the whole mason-claim fiasco. However, there's just too much overall effort in her posting for me to give her a scumread, despite her relentless tunneling of prplzh. She was never afraid to comment in detail on other cases (Palmar's case on marv), and as far as I'm concerned, was the only player in the thread to have decent rationale for voting him. Ok. Agree on your bold point quite a bit actually. Normally if scum decide to tunnel someone to look like they're contributing, that's all they do. | ||
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leaning townish/null/scummish. | ||
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[QUOTE]On September 21 2012 08:04 marvellosity wrote: [QUOTE]On September 21 2012 07:43 Hapahauli wrote: [QUOTE]On September 21 2012 07:33 marvellosity wrote: Hapa, just because it came to mind - what do you make of Ange quizzing iamperfection about his vote around the time of the lynch / dumb claims?[/QUOTE] It's pretty strange, given that ange herself was active in the thread during the whole mason-claim fiasco. However, there's just too much overall effort in her posting for me to give her a scumread, despite her relentless tunneling of prplzh. She was never afraid to comment in detail on other cases (Palmar's case on marv), and as far as I'm concerned, was the only player in the thread to have decent rationale for voting him. [/QUOTE] Ok. Agree on your bold point quite a bit actually. Normally if scum decide to tunnel someone to look like they're contributing, that's all they do. [/QUOTE] Wanted to comment on this, because this is exactly what Bluelightz has been doing. The more I read through his meta, the more differences in mentality I see between this game and his townie games. Townie bluelightz likes looking for... for lack of better words... "townie idiosyncrasies." He finds little things that makes people townie/null/not-scum/whatever and it really influences his voting process. This gives other people the impression that he's a crazy/wild player due to his mentality. But when you look at this game, he's built two big cases against players. He's never declared a townie read, and he's been fairly tunnel-y. Look how clean his play is. Does that look like the wild townie Bluelightz "capable of doing anything" that you know?[/QUOTE As you keep banging on about him, I decided to go back for myself at Normal Mini Mafia II. And the large problem I came across is that he was quite the opposite there. In fact I was somewhat shocked to see how involved he 'seemed'. If you want me to dig up examples I will, but I think his 'tunnelyness' here is more akin to, say GSL where he basically stuck on vader for two days, than NMM2, where he was on drwiggles, VE, Sinensis, and with other interactions besides. What say you? | ||
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The one thing I noticed, actually, was that he opened both the Sinensis and prplhz cases here up with Case I find that kinda interesting. But obviously it's not very strong. Quickly browsing through GSL/NMM3 I don't see him doing that there. | ||
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On September 21 2012 09:24 Hapahauli wrote: "Overkill" in the sense that it was unnecessary. It's not like his case against prplzh was long either - it was just completely unnecessary considering the town atmosphere. There was a lot of suspicion on prplzh well in the open and posted by several players. Instead of just voting for prplzh/sinensis, he made it a point to really "justify" his vote and lay out is rationale by summarizing a bunch of other points against his target. yeah, i don't see a problem in rationalising your vote, but I do see where you're coming from. Hmm. I am still musing on this "case" thing though. I wonder if it's like he subconsciously needs to announce that's what it is, whereas he doesn't in townie games. Or if I'm completely making a mountain out of a molehill. | ||
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I'll have a proper look myself; obviously I'd had some niggles as I asked you that question about her interactions with iamp a little earlier. | ||
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whether Ange flips scum or not, I found the fact that austin went back to examine the actually happenings right around the lynch as quite a townie thing to do. Scum look for dirt and do work etc but only town want to work out exactly the reactions on the lynch. What do you tihnk about this? | ||
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On September 21 2012 10:28 Mementoss wrote: Austinmcc doing ange777 the favour with the soft defense here. A bunch of fluff with such a weird way of talking about ange, no solid view on her at all. Waiting for palmars thoughts on her before he gives his own. God damn your scum. Also, trying to bring back up the bluelightz discussion as soon as ange777 votes come and someone asks his feelings on her, deflection much? Give us a solid fucking read with your answers unless your scum, then keep playing this way. you should realise this is actually a pretty unfair representation of what austin has done this evening if you've been reading the last few pages. | ||
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For the record I asked iamp if he believed prplhz was scum up until the flip, because I wanted to get a feel for what people thought. Mementoss seemed to think prplhz would flip scum until the flip. I realised about on the hour, a few minutes before the actual flip, that prplhz would likely flip town. This is why I was seeking confirmation of what people thought at the time. On September 21 2012 01:07 Ange777 wrote: Finally people are taking a closer look at Palmar. I don't know about his past achievements of being perhaps a terrific scum hunter but I have not seen anything worthy of being praised like that in this game yet. Unfortunately I won't be in for the deadline, for now my top scum reads are Palmar and iamperfection. @iamperfection: What was going on? I have you marked as a scum read that's what's going on. Why would someone give up his right to vote just to simply sheep another player? Especially sheeping someone you yourself called a terrible townie. There is no town motivatoin for that kind of play. Publicly stating to sheep your town read just gives you an excuse to be wrong with your vote because you were not responsible for it. And suddenly vote switching in the last minutes onto the seemingly scum prplhz whom you had not mentioned again after dismissing Blazinghand's case as being a weak meta case is just something I don't understand. Two possibilities: 1) You are town. You want to make sure prplhz gets lynched. But we already had the majority to lynch him. So why the last minute vote? We discussed prplhz a lot before the end of Day 1 and you did not give your stance on him. 2) You are scum. You wanted to get some town cred for jumping on "scum prplhz". Right now I am leaning to 2 as you still haven't given me a satisfying answer for your voting behaviour. First part: "something I don't understand" - when she was convinced that prplhz was scum and the claims were fake? Doesn't connect. Second part: this 2) really is the kicker. I literally cannot comprehend the potential townie thought process. If iamperfection is scum, he knows prplhz won't flip scum. So he'd know he wouldn't get credit for it. Fundamentally Ange seems to have forgotten that the scum she is projecting would know prplhz would flip town. It literally makes no sense at all. She mixed herself up. ##Vote: Ange777 | ||
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On September 21 2012 10:58 iamperfection wrote: i thought he was town untill the fake claim screw up. yeah, that wasn't the question, but it doesn't matter so much now. | ||
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not sure. the whole post is really scummy though. it's mostly nonsense and his reaction to just everything isn't what i expected at all. | ||
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That's seriously weak shit. | ||
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What's going on? | ||
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Actually Hiro as town is more categorised by laziness. His last scum game was a while ago (magic mini normal), but looking through his filter there I found this: + Show Spoiler + On May 27 2012 07:00 HiroPro wrote: Katina: Katina has hardly been posting in this game and when she does, she's maintained a singular focus on N_T and Matt. JubJub 2: In this game, when going after N_T Katina displays a very odd use of meta - very different from the way she used in the past (LII: Jubjub Mafia where Katina fingers DocH based on meta with a clear difference between his town and mafia styles (when DocH is town his posting is much longer and doesn't attack other people)). Compare that to this game, where Katina uses meta against Nova_Terra (Nova_Terra is scum because he spams as mafia. Yet he does this both as town and mafia...) That's not a logical argument at all. Also everyone should look at the cases that Katina makes in that game and compare that to this game; there's a clear level of depth that's missing from anything she has posted here. This Game: Liar Game: When attacked in previous games (for example Liar Game) Katina typically brings forth new thoughts and reads (She's very eager to elaborate her reads on Palmar and address the issues that other people bring up). In this game though, Katina just says that she was busy and repeats the same arguments that she's been giving the entire game without analyzing anything new. With such a big difference between her town play and her play this game and a general lack of good posting and reads, I think Katina is almost definitely scum. A fairly long well thought through post, making valid points based on meta across several games and applying them to the current game. Except it's scum Hiro making this post. Looking through his town games, they are more categorised by shorter posts, where ultimately Hiro is more involved in what's going on than he is here. I believe HiroPro is scum | ||
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On September 21 2012 22:21 Palmar wrote: That is very much fine with me. This ange lynch is not good anyway. you need to explain very clearly why. I'm up for Ange more than Hiro atm. | ||
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Tell us how her actions around the lynch time can be viewed with a townie perspective. "No" simply isn't good enough. | ||
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On September 21 2012 22:32 Palmar wrote: So let's say Ange gets lynched and flips town, are you going to try and lynch me for being useless. I don't think there's enough dumb players in this game. In fact, connecting an unrevealed lynch like that to me somehow is just reinforcing my belief that you should die today. You're basically already planning for the next move after Ange gets mislynched. Fuck that, I'm not allowing you to do that. ##Vote marvellosity @Restoftown: Here's a very simple reason for this vote. Marv just made a post where he's planning on how to proceed in the game without considering the results of his current plan right now, which is indicative of him having additional information that we don't have, ie already knowing how an Ange lynch will end. The reference is to how you didn't stand up for your town-read prplhz on Day 1 and he ended up getting lynched, which was inexcusable behaviour. I have already made it abundantly clear that I do not see a townie motivation for Ange's posts around the deadline. Somehow you refuse to answer the question on why she could be town from this. I was asking you because, as a supposedly good player at picking shit up, you might have insight into it, and yet you refuse to answer. Mementoss (retardedly imo) gave your atrocious Day 1 play a pass on the basis that "Palmar wants to survive to Day 2 so he can be useful". This is your chance and you're fucking blowing it. | ||
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On September 21 2012 22:33 Palmar wrote: Spamming the game up and saying he's up for lynching half the people in the game is not indicative of marv being town. I'll just be here on my wagon until anyone starts listening. you're just not reading the thread at all, are you? | ||
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On September 21 2012 22:41 Palmar wrote: Well then I blow it. You see, by now you've spammed the thread hard enough that there is no chance that I'm ever going to actually get you lynched. I would actually much rather town lynched me than Ange, because at least then I've flipped, and people can start reading back to what I've said. My best chance of making something useful happen in this game is to just make sure that for when I'm dead people KNOW that I have been trying to get you lynched all the way through the game. Sure, I'd much rather people just listened early, also I thought prplhz would pull himself out of the hole, not botch the mason claim and die. Seriously, if anyone can read this and watch how you're somehow making me responsible for a terrible lynch that shouldn't have happened because I'm not loud enough. what the fuck. You are at least partly responsible because you had a strong townie read on prplhz that you absolutely refused to explain. Now you are doing the same with Ange. Why is Ange not a good lynch today? How can you explain her actions as townie around the lynch with iamp? Answer. | ||
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On September 22 2012 00:38 austinmcc wrote: Yup, I was wrong. No reasoning on Hiro. But no, it's not a reason to keep pointing it out, and it's especially not a reason to keep sniping at him. If you've been trying to potty train a kid for 8 years and he's still just peeing himself at the dinner table, then at some point you give up on it. You strap a diaper and a helmet on him and send him out into the world to go count to purple. Anybody who thinks, right now, "Palmar is giving a hell of a lot of good reasoning behind his reads" is that kid. Anybody who isn't doesn't need to be informed that there's still a lack of involvement. Spend your energy elsewhere. I've seen you get tangled up with one person for an entire cycle, and it neuters your ability to do anything else. IF Palmar is scum, then it feels like that's what is going on, you're just being goaded into wasting all your effort on sniping/fuming/looking at Palmar. Why say this? I'm voting for Ange, and I think I found another scum in HiroPro. Why don't you discuss what I said about HiroPro instead of YOU pointlessly sniping at ME, hypocritically? | ||
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On September 22 2012 00:54 austinmcc wrote: However, I'll go look at hiropro. But...you haven't been as vocal on him as you think? Heres you on Hiro the last 20 hours or so... Seriously, that's your filter. If you want to discuss what you said about HiroPro, fine. But what you said was "leaning town" --> "dont' want to lynch him, but please write up a case because I agree on the weak presence" (to Palmar) --> "I believe HiroPro is scum" I will respond to the actual last post on HiroPro, I read it but I'll work through my own thoughts now. Just...look at that progression. You haven't been hammering on HiroPro. Your read went from townie to townie but I agree on weak presence to scum. And your entire Hiro argument SEEMS to be "I thought hiro was town because he was active, now I think he's lazy town and must be scum because he's active." Can you give more robust thoughts on Hiro, because I'll discuss what you've said but it ain't much. Yes, I meant specifically the last post. I don't know what else to say because I explained in that post why I shifted my reasoning. I had believed the effort he went to to search through previous games to make good meta arguments meant he was making good effort, which tends towards a townie read. Effectively, my read previously had been taking this game in isolation, and earlier I went back and went back and looked through a bunch of Hiro's games. That's why I posted that post from Mini Magic, and commented on his other town games. I'm just rehashing in longer version what I said in that post there. There aren't really that many 'robust' thoughts to give other than what I said. I said ealrier, as you mention that he seemed disconnected/weak presence, and going back through his games, it contradicts his meta. | ||
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On September 22 2012 01:10 austinmcc wrote: I guess...when I read that post, what I get is you saying
I dislike that post and I almost just throw it out. You looked at Hiro's past games. You gave us ONE quote from ONE game, and a blanket statement that Hiro in other games posts shorter and is more involved. Which is fine, but just understand that there's not really too much there other than some assertions about Hiro's meta that are almost certainly true, but based on size of posts. One reason you found Hiro townie eariler was his "well thought out points" and that his "thoughts have been unique this game and [you] like the way he thinks and agree with it much of the time." Does that still hold true? Does his meta trump that? I'd be more convinced by what's happening in game than a meta argument based on short/long posts and involvement. I don't see anything in that post about whether scum Hiro's points are well thought out, or about how you agree with scum Hiro's points but not town Hiro's points. Do you really want to lynch Hiro based on being disconnected and posting long posts? I know you are voting Ange, but are you scummy enough on Hiro because of the meta read that you have that you want to lynch him, despite liking the way he's thought and the points he's made? Frankly, yes. His only scum game that wasn't his newbie game was that Magic Mini game. That was the only game of the others that I looked at that he used meta examples from across various games in a post of his. Actually in the post I quoted, he was bussing Katina (who, in that game, I thought correctly was scum on meta) and his points were all valid. It's not that I disagree with townie Hiro points, but they are rarely as... carefully constructed as his posts here were. It reminds me of Bureaucracy a bit, where slOosh made several outwardly excellent posts, but he was 'disconnected' from the thread. I could dig up my post where I said that if you really wanted. Other than that there's not a lot to do other than say "why don't you have a look at the games for yourself?". HiroPro is typically more involved in the thread as town, but it's pretty hard just to pull random snippets from other games that show this. | ||
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On September 22 2012 01:26 austinmcc wrote: Okay, that's fine. Didn't realize he'd only been scum once. No worries on the bureaucracy comparison. If that's all that can be said about him, though, then it's difficult for us to discuss your read on him. The most we could do is get to the same point, "Geez, his activity and the size of his posts doesn't look the same as townHiro." I'd rather have evidence from inside this game to lynch on than something as fuzzy as that. Coming full circle though...you should still knock it off with Palmar. I've read your stuff. There's just nothing we can really DO with HiroPro though based on your post, because while it may look wrong it's not lynchably wrong (at least for me). If there's not a robust history, then looking through his meta, especially for things like post size and involvement, doesn't get us too much compared to someone that DOES have a decent number of games of both alignments. I'll give Hiro's conduct THIS game some more attention later this cycle. My point is that his conduct this game is disconnected from the thread, which can be and often is a scummy characteristic on its own. The fact that it directly contradicts his townie meta is extra and confirmation. | ||
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On September 22 2012 02:10 Hapahauli wrote: @ Marv I've been reading through Hiro's filters, and I'm not quite ready to peg him has scum. I agree that I haven't seen him make such a comprehensive post in his townie meta, but that's not necessarily scummy to me. Could very well be a meta-deviation. His silence so far has been telling, and I'm starting to lean scum on him. Also, what is your exact read on Palmar right now? I'm having trouble determining whether you actually think he's scum or if you're just fighting with him 'cause you're pissed at him or something. Scum. I was prepared to believe Palmar was just being... Palmar going into today, and was willing to hear out his contributions and go from there. Instead it's clear from the Palmar we are dealing with that he doesn't give a crap about the game at all. He remains unwilling to share anything; he just doesn't care. He's had the opportunity to come in to the thread and talk about why Ange might be town, or why Hiro is scum, and he's failed dismally on both counts. He said something along the lines of "there's still plenty of time" and that's exceptionally weak. If Palmar genuinely believed town was going in the wrong direction with the Ange lynch, he should be doing what he can to stop it now, not 'later'. He said he hoped prplhz would be able to extricate himself from the mess he was in by himself. That may be so, but if he had actual insight as to why prplhz was town, why wasn't he sharing it? In short, I currently see no evidence that Palmar cares for town in any way whatsoever, and he is scum. | ||
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On September 22 2012 02:39 Hapahauli wrote: So presumably you think Ange and Palmar are scum, yes? If so, how does Hiro make sense as scum? It really doesn't. Let's look from hypothetical "scum-Palmar's" perspective: 1) Ange, his "scumbuddy" slipped 2) Palmar's second "scumbuddy," Hiro, was not under much suspicion from anyone but Palmar 3) ...then Palmar proceeds to call a shot on Hiro and mention him explicitly as his top scumread? There's no way this is true. Something's wrong in this equation. Palmar is known for his scum strat to be "bus all his team-mates". Hiro was under suspicion from Palmar, but with no weight. If Palmar refuses to give reasoning for Hiro being scum, then this isn't valid suspicion, it isn't even pressure. No-one is going to pay any attention to Palmar saying Hiro is scum if Palmar doesn't elaborate upon it. The very fact that Palmar has been completely unwilling to elaborate on HiroPro since he mentioned him as a scumread in practically his first post of the game invalidates your argument in my opinion. Gonna exercise now but I'd be very happy to discuss this when I get back. | ||
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Anyway, back in a couple of hours. | ||
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On September 22 2012 04:00 Mementoss wrote: @Hapa/Marv What would scum motivation be for Palmar giving his town read on me and explaining it (to an extent) in day 1/night 1. I was probably the 3rd most likely to be lynched day 1, and I was probably a major point of discussion day 2 as a lynch possibility, mainly through the thoughts of Austinmcc and Hapa (Possibly ange). why the screw not? Go look at Palmar's filter in Bureaucracy, he's very forthcoming with townreads. I initially led a lynch but then abandoned it and protected my 'townread' Bluelightz in Normal Mini Mafia 3, when I had the opportunity to lynch him, and then leave Palmar's choice of lynch to the next day, and I basically protected BL for the whole game after. Why not? 3rd most likely to be lynched? Who the fuck cares. When it actually matters (prplhz/Ange) Palmar has stayed completely unforthcoming in the explanation for his reads. | ||
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On September 22 2012 04:27 Hapahauli wrote: The thing with Palmar is that he's been really forthcoming with town-reads all game. He had me, you (mementoss), Blazinghand, and prplhz read as town before any flips. He also has a town-read on iamperfection that I very much agree with. Now I don't see how this makes sense from a scum-objective standpoint. If he just believed that prplzh was town near the gallows deadline, I'd find that scummy. But he's not. He's going out of his way to establish townie reads (and rather accurately so far). His only confirmed mistake thusfar is mkfuba, and that's something everyone got wrong. Is it possible that this is scum motivated? Yah sure, I mean scum have alignments of every player. But him going out of his way to establish multiple players as town isn't what I'd expect scum to do. Plus, if he and Ange were scum, from what marv is saying, he'd pretty much auto-bus her, especially after including her in a scumlist yesterday. I really want to hear what he has to say about Ange. yeah, you're just falling into the trap of being confused by his games. Pretty annoying to watch actually. I want Palmar dead more than I want Ange dead right now. ##Unvote ##Vote: Palmar | ||
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On July 21 2012 04:38 syllogism wrote: It's his overall behavior, lack of effort and attitude towards me and sandroba especially. Some of his reads I think are genuine (for example what he says about layabout) and some clearly are not (his BM read). Can you find anything that indicates he cares about the town and wants to push town towards anything useful? He just pops in to say something irrelevant. Town palmar would never think I'm mafia by this point (as a side note, I actually think that there is a chance that he thought that I was early on and tried to "communicate" with me by random voting me). if you don't want to listen to me, listen to syllogism | ||
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On September 22 2012 05:04 Mementoss wrote: How is this out of context quote relevant to anything lol, its someones opinion on meta. Because it directly applies to this game, it matches in every way. Palmar went after one of the stronger, more vocal town players in Bureaucracy (syllo), read me here. Hapa's all like "but this and this look genuine", here's syllo pointing out that as mafia Palmar does look like he's making genuine reads "Can you find anything that indicates he cares about the town and wants to push town towards anything useful? He just pops in to say something irrelevant." Again, a total mirror image of this game. He gives pointless town reads on iamperfection, but on important matters - prplhz, Ange, Hiro - he does nothing AT ALL. | ||
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He's also proved it by refusing to elaborate at any point, especially today, on why Hiro is scum. | ||
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On September 22 2012 05:27 austinmcc wrote: I have no desire to lynch palmar or marv today. If I thought that either of them would feel heavily pressured by a few votes, I might cast my lot in to see what it shook out of one of em, but I see you being able to keep their cool as scum under pressure, and I don't want to play games when I'm so sure ange is scum and we've got her up for lynch right now. Problem is, you're wrong. | ||
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On September 22 2012 05:26 Mementoss wrote: The context is not the point, its the point that its Marv's opinion on his own scum play, which is going to be more accurate than anyone elses opinion on his scum play. the whole post was entirely sarcastic. what's wrong with you? | ||
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The discussion of the last few pages demonstrates that enough | ||
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On September 22 2012 06:01 Mementoss wrote: Only Mafia would consider Palmar a threat tbh. if you ever want to win a town game, you might wanna listen to people who know what they're talking about | ||
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On September 22 2012 06:05 Mementoss wrote: agree with marv or your bad no, say stupid, retarded crap like "only mafia consider Palmar a threat" is bad. | ||
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this game Palmar has done nothing, he let his townread prplhz get lynched without intervening, he's saying Ange shouldn't be lynched but he isn't intervening, he's called scum for the whole game without ANY explanation. That is all WITHIN THIS GAME. The meta merely matches perfectly to how completely useless and irrelevant he's been in every way this game. But yes, I consider my reads better than yours because I've actually won some games as town. | ||
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On September 22 2012 10:57 Hapahauli wrote: Oh damn looks like I just missed Ange. For when she gets back... @ Ange777 I don't think you've addressed the most incriminating point against you yet - the clear contradictions between your pre-lynch mentality and your case on iamperfection. Firstly, this quote: At this point you clearly thing prplzh is scum for the reasons of the fail-claim (as posted in your first defense post). The problem is, there's no reason for you to suspect iamperfection for his vote. Pre-lynch, your comment on iamperfection's vote is fine. However post-lynch, there's a huge contradiction in your mentality: Firstly, there's no reason you should be suspicious of iamperfection for his fakevote due to your comments on the prplzh fake-claim. As you have stated, prplzh's fake-claim is the thing that re-affirmed your scumread on him. Problem is, you show a complete ignorance of this mentality when attacking iamperfection. It's pretty clear that iamperfection switched his vote for the same reason that you re-affirmed your read on prplzh. Despite the supposedly similar mentalities, you show a complete unawareness of this when attacking iamperfection. It should have been obvious to you why he switched his vote. It reads like you are forcing suspicions, and this disconnect in your mentality reinforces this. Now as for the bolded part, it just makes no damn sense. As marv said earlier, why hypothetical scum iamperfection try to get town cred for jumping on prplhz? Scum iamperfection would have known that prplzh was town. This makes 0% sense, and is more evidence for me that you're forcing cases/suspicion on players. It also doesn't help that the overall post is just terrible analysis. You seem to be more ticked off at iamperfection for "voting responsibility" rather than actual scummy behavior. A townie switching his vote after a huge fail-claim is pretty normal (and obvious), yet for some reason you're completely oblivious to it. I'm interested in hearing your response, but I can't think of any town-mentality for your suspicions on iamperfection. I will say that if you can't convince the town, dump your reads on as many players as you can, Right now, you're relentlessly tunneling iamperfection (and mementoss for a while... lol?). If you refuse to provide detailed reads on other players, I promise you will get lynched tomorrow. Ange, I absolutely need an explanation for what's been bolded here. | ||
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I think Palmar is a much better lynch today. | ||
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We should be hanging Palmar. | ||
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On September 22 2012 00:09 Palmar wrote: Hiro, then possibly bluelightz, or austinmcc, but austin I would rather not lynch right now. ange and zeph are much more in the null/leaning town territory. hapa, meme, iamperf are the guys I'm pretty sure are town. It's irrelevant, and sure I can make a case as to why I think Ange is town, but it's not going to be what you expect or what you want to hear. don't think I can today though. But we have plenty of time. imo, this 'plenty of time' has now passed. Town, please join me in voting Palmar. I still think Ange has a pretty decent chance of flipping scum but I also see the possibility that she had a logic meltdown. Currently I'm not seeing any possibility that Palmar is town. | ||
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On September 23 2012 02:53 austinmcc wrote: I think that as to the iamperfection bit that you're concerned about, there's a possibility she had a "logic meltdown." But I'm still convinced she's mafia. Which I'm not, btw. That's ok. If Ange flips town you're scum. And whether you are scum or not, you're blind if you think palmar isn't scum. | ||
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Everyone who isn't weird austin, VOTE PALMAR | ||
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Palmar and Hiro are my top 2 reads at the moment. Palmar had Hapa fooled by giving reads for once. Do you remember earlier in the day, when asked about Ange, he said "I could tell you but you're not going to like it"? When you read his post a little earlier, was there anything there where you thought "ugh, wow, I don't like that" like he said? No, because he used that as a line to delay giving town anything for no reason. Why is Palmar's vote on me? My vote is in the right place, Palmar doesn't give a flying fuck about this town. | ||
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That's why I said he was dangerous and had to die now. | ||
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On September 23 2012 06:41 Hapahauli wrote: Guys guys guys. Guys. Bluelightz? Still think he's scum, can someone comment on this? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=59#1171 Also: yeah through elimination I really don't think BL is scum. | ||
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This is going to be pretty long due to the fact I'm posting a lot of quotes. Some will also be duplicated as they apply to different sections. Sorry if it's a bore. A couple of things I've noticed while going through his filter: 1) austin lumps me and Palmar together. It's always marv and Palmar, or marv or Palmar. 2) austin never gives an actual read on Palmar until the end of the day when it's clear Palmar has a good chance of being lynched. 3) He doesn't want to lynch Palmar, he says this quite a bit. Marv and Palmar together: On September 22 2012 01:15 austinmcc wrote: The problem with this is that it doesn't give us anything. Both are perfectly capable of setting this up as scumbuddies. I think both are capable of this if they're both town. I don't terribly want to flip either, and I don't think flipping either gives us a conclusive read on the other. On September 22 2012 05:27 austinmcc wrote: I have no desire to lynch palmar or marv today. If I thought that either of them would feel heavily pressured by a few votes, I might cast my lot in to see what it shook out of one of em, but I see you being able to keep their cool as scum under pressure, and I don't want to play games when I'm so sure ange is scum and we've got her up for lynch right now. On September 22 2012 06:42 austinmcc wrote: IF Palmar is scum and IF he's dangerous because he can cause more confusion if left alive, then right now, the best opportunity for him to sow confusion is TO DO EXACTLY WHAT HE'S DOING. -snip- If you know Palmar so well, the flip side is also true. Palmar has played more games with you than with the rest of the players in this game, as far as I know. That means that IF he's going to be dicking with anyone's head, it's going to be yours. So quit letting him. This last quote was also part of a whole chain of posts where austin tells me to stop sniping at Palmar. On September 22 2012 08:42 austinmcc wrote: What would your read be on me if all you had was the TOO obvious post and the prplhz vote post? What is your current read on mementoss? If you had to choose a lynch target for today that wasn't you, palmar, or marv, who would you be looking at and why? If we weren't playing mafia, and everyone in this thread was actually a mountain (except you), who would be the tallest mountain? Which mountain would have the most wildlife living on it? Interesting how he lumps me in with Palmar once again, even though I've obviously been a completely unviable lynch target for the day. Why not marv? I don't wanna lynch Palmar: On September 22 2012 01:15 austinmcc wrote: The problem with this is that it doesn't give us anything. Both are perfectly capable of setting this up as scumbuddies. I think both are capable of this if they're both town. I don't terribly want to flip either, and I don't think flipping either gives us a conclusive read on the other. On September 22 2012 02:49 austinmcc wrote: As long as we're playing connection games, I'm still wondering about this: There's been far less Palmar --> Ange interaction when compared to Palmar --> Hiro, which is saying something I guess. Although there was a good amount of Ange --> Palmar action D1 where she was asking him lots of questions and trying to keep thread from letting him get by with what he was adding. I still don't want to lynch Palmar, but only after pulling it back out do I realize how much I dislike him agreeing with "almost everything" in prplhz's list. I don't care as much about a lack of reasoning behind reads, but that post from his is actually NO reads. Agreeing with almost everything there tells us nothing about what he actually does and doesn't agree with, besides prplhz's read on Palmar himself. On September 22 2012 05:27 austinmcc wrote: I have no desire to lynch palmar or marv today. If I thought that either of them would feel heavily pressured by a few votes, I might cast my lot in to see what it shook out of one of em, but I see you being able to keep their cool as scum under pressure, and I don't want to play games when I'm so sure ange is scum and we've got her up for lynch right now. On September 23 2012 02:53 austinmcc wrote: I think that as to the iamperfection bit that you're concerned about, there's a possibility she had a "logic meltdown." But I'm still convinced she's mafia. Which I'm not [on Palmar], btw. Complete lack of a read on Palmar: On September 22 2012 00:27 austinmcc wrote: I don't know if you're trying to or not, but this keeps clogging up the thread. The majority of his posts have not included reasoning. You've got a lot of posts calling him out on that. We see the lack of reasoning; you can stop. Nobody is sitting in thread saying Palmar has done a great job of letting us see where he's getting his calls from. Nobody is sheeping his reads either. I still don't know what to make of Palmar, but 10 more discussions of how he's not giving full-throated reads isn't going to do anything for anyone. Moreover, some of those reads DO have reasoning, but earlier in thread - I know iam was covered in his first reads, I believe he may have given reasoning for hiro at some point (not entirely sure there). There's no NEED for reasoning on hapa, and little need for anything on mementoss. Starts the story with "I don't know what to make of Palmar" On September 22 2012 00:38 austinmcc wrote: Yup, I was wrong. No reasoning on Hiro. But no, it's not a reason to keep pointing it out, and it's especially not a reason to keep sniping at him. If you've been trying to potty train a kid for 8 years and he's still just peeing himself at the dinner table, then at some point you give up on it. You strap a diaper and a helmet on him and send him out into the world to go count to purple. Anybody who thinks, right now, "Palmar is giving a hell of a lot of good reasoning behind his reads" is that kid. Anybody who isn't doesn't need to be informed that there's still a lack of involvement. Spend your energy elsewhere. I've seen you get tangled up with one person for an entire cycle, and it neuters your ability to do anything else. IF Palmar is scum, then it feels like that's what is going on, you're just being goaded into wasting all your effort on sniping/fuming/looking at Palmar. "If" - uh huh. On September 22 2012 02:49 austinmcc wrote: As long as we're playing connection games, I'm still wondering about this: There's been far less Palmar --> Ange interaction when compared to Palmar --> Hiro, which is saying something I guess. Although there was a good amount of Ange --> Palmar action D1 where she was asking him lots of questions and trying to keep thread from letting him get by with what he was adding. I still don't want to lynch Palmar, but only after pulling it back out do I realize how much I dislike him agreeing with "almost everything" in prplhz's list. I don't care as much about a lack of reasoning behind reads, but that post from his is actually NO reads. Agreeing with almost everything there tells us nothing about what he actually does and doesn't agree with, besides prplhz's read on Palmar himself. I don't want to lynch Palmar, but I don't like this. Don't like? And? Just so we don't get confused that "don't like" means "I think he's scum", we have him definitely not wanting to lynch Palmar a few hours later: On September 22 2012 05:27 austinmcc wrote: I have no desire to lynch palmar or marv today. On September 22 2012 06:42 austinmcc wrote: IF Palmar is scum and IF he's dangerous because he can cause more confusion if left alive, then right now, the best opportunity for him to sow confusion is TO DO EXACTLY WHAT HE'S DOING. If if if if if On September 23 2012 02:53 austinmcc wrote: I think that as to the iamperfection bit that you're concerned about, there's a possibility she had a "logic meltdown." But I'm still convinced she's mafia. Which I'm not [on Palmar], btw. Still not convinced on Palmar. On September 23 2012 03:22 austinmcc wrote: Oh I've pretty much come around on palmar being scum. But your worries about him wreaking havoc seem pretty unfounded. Also, if Ange flips town I'll actually still be town. Wait, what? austin now thinks Palmar is scum? Based on what? There has been no read at all on Palmar in any of his filter, and now, when everyone else actually wants to lynch Palmar, austin has come around to thinking that Palmar is scum? | ||
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On September 23 2012 05:08 austinmcc wrote: Marv isn't doing that this game because he's bogged down with Palmar. EVEN if palmar is mafia, there's no need to shoot marv. Palmar's existence and taunting makes marv near-useless as townie, A FACT WHICH HE RECOGNIZES TO SOME EXTENT - + Show Spoiler + On September 21 2012 09:42 marvellosity wrote: I'm so behind, I hadn't even got on to considering austin's posts yet :< On September 21 2012 09:45 marvellosity wrote: no, I mean I literally had been talking to you and looking at Bluelightz's past games and shit, so i was putting austin's posts aside for a moment. I'll have a proper look myself; obviously I'd had some niggles as I asked you that question about her interactions with iamp a little earlier. On September 21 2012 10:57 marvellosity wrote: I need to read the thread more closely if i'm missing shit like that on first pass Why is austin misrepresenting what's going on in thread? Take this. "Palmar's existence makes marv near-useless" and he then proceeds to quote a bunch of quotes. Let's break it down. Quotes 1) and 2) were referencing how I hadn't looked at austin's posts on Ange, because I was discussing Bluelightz with Hapahauli. In what way, in what universe, is this me getting bogged down with Palmar? It's quite the opposite. I hadn't gotten around to austin's posts because I was discussing with Hapa a player that had absolutely nothing to do with Palmar. It even fucking says so in the quotes, why is austin suggesting it was because I was bogged down with Palmar? The final quote was that I missed something and I suck, which was just an admission I felt bad for missing it (yeah, I do miss stuff). I find austin's entire argument that the Palmar dispute got my bugged down as utterly disingenuous. Day 2, I 1) Discussed Bluelightz at length with Hapa 2) Was an active part of the discussion on Ange and her posts around deadline; 3) Examined Hiro's past games, his conduct in this game, and changed my read on him, as well as 4) Getting Palmar lynched. Yes, I've spent plenty of time on Palmar, but suggesting that's all I've done is actually just an outright lie. | ||
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So I'm entertaining the notion that austin could just be playing with pants-on-head at various points in this game rather than be scum. Not entirely sure which it is right now. Still leaning scum though. | ||
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I'm not going to say my views/interactions Palmar have always been emotion free, because that would be silly, but you're looking at things upside down imo. Actually Palmar's accusation of me got me super-invested in this game whereas before I was not. Regularly dying night 1 and 2 gradually erodes your motivation to be invested in a game as you might like, and so having the town's gaze on me forced me to get my butt in gear. In short, Palmar's presence in this game has caused me to be more emotional than I might have been otherwise, but more importantly, more invested too. When I'm pretty sure someone is scum, I snipe at them - perhaps it's not optimal, but it's what I do. I called Zealos a total idiot when he was scum in Magic Mini when I was pursuing him, I called JingleHell a squirmy little bitch when I was pursuing him in Mad Men. I tunnel people for shit, and hey, I'm not going to apologise for it - because one thing I am good at is getting who I want lynched. When I really want someone to die, they die, whether people like how I went about it or not. | ||
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VE tunnelled me so hard and in the end I believed he had to be scum because no townie would be so blind. Most of why I felt VE was scum was on how he interacted with me. Here I went to quite a lot of effort to remove as much as possible the interactions between me and Palmar (other than the initial silly OMGUS). My case rested on his (lack of) views on prplhz, Ange, Hiro, and his lack of investment in the game, and how this fitted his scum meta to a tee. From a personal point of view, I was extremely convinced that a town Palmar wouldn't still be thinking I was scum by the middle of Day 2, which helped firm my own read up. But I didn't bring this to the thread because I knew it was pointless and unconvincing. My case on Palmar though had practically nothing to do with OMGUS (even though it started that way). | ||
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On September 23 2012 22:59 austinmcc wrote: It was part off meta, yeah. Honestly remembered a TON of little questions in Bureaucracy that then led him to reads and conclusions, and it felt in PTP3 that he was asking less little questions, and then doing less with them. I was clearly wrong in reading him as scum. A lot of the PTP3 lynch though was also off of mechanics. Shots on him that disappeared and were only explained by the fact that he didn't flip until after being dead. So the mechanics of his role kind of made him look scummy, when townies claimed to have shot at him yet the damage was missing. I went through PTP again earlier today and it was mostly what I expected to see from a town Hiro. Here he contributes less, asks fewer questions, isn't trying to figure things out, while at the same time seeming more sure of what he is saying than I'd expect from town Hiro. Also, strictly in-game, look at his behaviour Night 1/Day 2. He agrees with me on Palmar totally Night 1 ("we should be lynching Palmar off this alone") and then pops into the thread Day 2 to go "lol nice on Ange, vote Ange!" and then somewhat later goes "yeah Palmar was scum all along, vote Palmar!" Like, there's no reasoning of his own given. He doesn't attempt to push town in any direction at all, he just turns up, votes, and leaves effectively. There's no questioning, no figuring things out, there's just vote hopping in a way too sure manner. What has Hiro done for the last 72 hours? | ||
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On September 23 2012 23:42 iamperfection wrote: im just having a hard time thinking the two biggest wagons were both on scum. perhaps, it does happen from time to time though | ||
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On September 23 2012 23:50 austinmcc wrote: I'm pointlessly very speculative in large parts. I know it's entirely speculative, but I'd rather give my full thought process behind things, and really ange's answer to the mountain question is the biggest piece of me not thinking bluelightz is scum right now. Right, which is complete bollocks. It's just a meaningless contribution based on wild speculation with no basis whatsoever. | ||
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I made some offhand remark in an obs of a game I wasn't concentrating much on due to a comment you made. Relevance? None. | ||
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You're sitting around quitting like a snivelling little crybaby. Which is it to be? | ||
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Basically you're a quitter. Good job there mate. | ||
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On September 24 2012 04:52 HiroPro wrote: yea you need to realize something. when you call people mafia for dumb reasons and then just act like they're confirmed scum, they're going to stop caring. funny, because that's what Palmar did to me, and my reaction was the total opposite, and I know I'm town. Let me think here. | ||
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On September 24 2012 05:14 HiroPro wrote: yea but you thought Palmar was scum. hapahuli and mementoss are like confirmed town and you're probably town too.... so what? I was willing to give Palmar a chance day 2 to see what he contributed, he contributed jack shit, so we lynched the piss out of him. All you've done day 2 is pop in to vote a few times. The same applies to you as it did to Palmar. | ||
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On September 24 2012 06:02 Hapahauli wrote: Oh and I was roleblocked. Cool. if you were really clever you wouldn't have announced that | ||
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On September 24 2012 06:07 austinmcc wrote: ack. poor deadline timing. gg all, sorry for the brain farts i had during this game. GO TOWN! so it was the pants on head after all ![]() gg bro | ||
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On September 24 2012 06:25 Hapahauli wrote: Realized shortly after I posted. It was automatic. Oh wellz. yes, that's pretty much how it would have happened with me too, no worries. | ||
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On September 24 2012 06:25 Hapahauli wrote: Thoughts on the NK marv? Pretty strange one that is. erm, fucking useful? literally i don't know how to speculate when they had you, confirmed town to hit, and Mementoss, semi-confirmed town to hit, or me to hit. I don't understand it at all actually. Trying to discredit me? Let me go a little austin on you for a moment - Mementoss is SK, I blocked scum hit and Mementoss hit austin. Before you all shout at me, I agree that's pretty fucking unlikely, but yeah. I'm only mentioning it because I don't understand the kill at all. | ||
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On September 24 2012 06:36 HiroPro wrote: no that's what he wants you to think. seriously, what drugs are you on? On September 21 2012 05:16 marvellosity wrote: Jeesh, I've almost left it too late - I really want to hear from BlazingHand on what he thinkks about Bluelightz, as I got teh impression from the discussions in GSL Open that he had, a pretty good grasp on Bluelightz's meta. I especially want to hear his opinion on whether he thinks Bluelightz' case on Prplhz felt 'forced', and the lack of town/null reads given to the thread. The point with fubaa is that he was weak giving his reasoning on austin, which took fucking forever anyway, and then when pressed to comment on austin then commented on Mementoss instead. He managed to create a situation where he doesn't have to be held accountable for any of his reads because we don't even know what they are properly.. My crumb from night 1, when I tried to jail Hapa but was roleblocked. JK Hapa. I call it the "typo" crumb. | ||
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On September 24 2012 06:42 HiroPro wrote: here I'll help you figure it out. marv said he was RBed first night. austin dies today - he's not a good mafia shot. marv is playing weird. dingdingding. then who's the jailkeeper, moron? | ||
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On September 24 2012 06:42 HiroPro wrote: here I'll help you figure it out. marv said he was RBed first night. austin dies today - he's not a good mafia shot. marv is playing weird. dingdingding. I'm playing weird by lynching scum. Ok love. | ||
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On September 24 2012 06:56 HiroPro wrote: rofl. My third party play is actually decent. I'm not an SK. I'm a townie.... then stop acting like a complete dick? | ||
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On September 24 2012 07:30 Hapahauli wrote: Pretty much. I'm convinced it has to be between Ange and Bluelightz. I'm kinda leaning more towards Ange in light of Palmar's antics on D2. Establishing Ange as town and pretty much doing everything to paint himself scummy only really makes sense if Ange was red. Palmar could have not posted and Ange would've gotten lynched no question. He's confused me once, so I dunno how reliable that is... It's not 100% either way. To hark back to Bureaucracy again, Palmar stoutly defended BlazingHand (scum) constantly, and BH was scum. So there's a reasonable chance Ange is too. | ||
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On September 24 2012 07:40 HiroPro wrote: Why would you ignore a townie????? Mementoss is the SK. No mafia would kill austin. Mementoss is SK. Everything that hapa/austin said about him on d1 was true. Maybe he is SK (unlikely). But if he is, he's out in the open and we can kill him at leisure. First, we need to kill scum. | ||
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On September 24 2012 07:50 HiroPro wrote: It's not even 6 pm, so why would I sleep. And the Eagles are playing like complete trash lol. So yes, I am slightly tilted. But you guys are ignoring the most important thing that happened and treating me like confirmed scum when I'm not. then stop acting like one? | ||
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I have strong feelings about who it would be if it does exist, which I'll tell town at the end of the next night. | ||
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On September 24 2012 08:22 marvellosity wrote: If there is a Serial Killer, I find it rather unlikely it's Mementoss. I have strong feelings about who it would be if it does exist, which I'll tell town at the end of the next night. just for emphasis on this page | ||
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On September 24 2012 08:57 Hapahauli wrote: Because she thinks that mementoss is a scummy semi-confirmed townie? On top of that, she explicitly labels him as the vigi. With her pushing iamperfection (for questionable reasons), it makes me think she's pushing mislynches rather than being an SK or townie or something. As a side note, If there's an SK, it's Bluelightz for sure. disagree | ||
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On September 24 2012 08:57 Hapahauli wrote: Because she thinks that mementoss is a scummy semi-confirmed townie? On top of that, she explicitly labels him as the vigi. With her pushing iamperfection (for questionable reasons), it makes me think she's pushing mislynches rather than being an SK or townie or something. As a side note, If there's an SK, it's Bluelightz for sure. I don't see at all how it means she wants to push on Mementoss at all. Rather it's an assessment on his play (scummy) and he's semi-confirmed townie (vigi) | ||
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On September 24 2012 09:48 Mementoss wrote: This is why I should read the thread before posting. I loled and yes, it's why you should. | ||
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On September 24 2012 10:22 HiroPro wrote: MARV FAKED THE BREADCRUMB. His "breadcrumb" was NIGHT 1, but HAPA SAID HE WAS RBED NIGHT 2. MARV IS A LIAR! ##Vote marvellosity i already said it was night 1 crumb, moron | ||
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On September 24 2012 10:26 Hapahauli wrote: Talking to marv. I know, I know. It's like mafia tourettes. | ||
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On September 24 2012 10:37 Hapahauli wrote: ![]() lmao. Meanwhile, BL has disappeared off the face of the earth. | ||
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Here's a clue - that's not enough. | ||
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On September 24 2012 20:30 Mementoss wrote: I think HiroPro is town or at least not scummy enough to warrant a vote. Details to come later. Are you on some kind of hallucinogenic funtimes? On September 24 2012 20:45 Mementoss wrote: @HiroPro You realize there is only way marv can be SK is if there is a town RB or a scum RB. Buuuuuuuuut, lets cut those chances in half, because why would scum RB ever RB a mason. And no one has claimed town RB. So the chances of marv being SK are really low right now. There are better chances that he is a scum RB and RB hapa last night to make this claim and bussed Palmar, and withheld his day 1 RB and Palmar withheld his day 1 RB... Just for this JK claim.....Super unlikely. If you are still convinced he is SK even though it makes no sense with the night actions. Here are some reasons we shouldn't kill marv: 1) If he is SK Mafia could waste a kill on him if they didn't already 2) Marv is a good player and helped us find scum 3) Marv is JK and can save players @Marv, why did you decide to claim how/when you did I was giving mafia the benefit of the doubt of not being full-blown idiots. Only 1 RB night 1 on me which they know was from them, and then another RB magically appears night 2. It's a very small logical deduction to work out who the jailkeeper is. Why you're even arguing with Hiro is absolutely mindboggling to me. | ||
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On September 24 2012 21:11 Mementoss wrote: okay lol the only reason I didnt think he was scum was because of a sort of connection of someone else I thought was scum. (maybe possibly 2 other scum) but guess i wont bother tell us what you saw in other people. | ||
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On September 24 2012 22:21 Bluelightz wrote: Hapa: My current scum reads are the same with others: HiroPro, because he stresses he IS a townie, but doesn't explain why the bloody hell he is a townie. Also because he made a case on marv purely based on meta, which is rather weak as a reason because meta can change every now and then. ##Vote: HiroPro this is so weak :/ Do you not have anything/anyone else to talk about? | ||
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On September 24 2012 22:23 Bluelightz wrote: I'm just posting what's necessary - Scum reads and votes. The game is rather very complicated for me to form a read right now then forming reads later on during or one day before LYLO. how can you not have learnt from GSL that that is too late to start trying properly? At the moment you are spectacularly not contributing to town :/ | ||
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On September 24 2012 22:29 Bluelightz wrote: What's the point with flooding town with my huge list's that people will just say "Oh Bluelightz is scum! look at dat list!" Put it this way, we just lynched Palmar for not contributing or caring for town. Hiro is in a similar boat. Who do you think will be next? | ||
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However, Hiro has gone into full troll mode and there is ZERO town motivation for this, whereas the scum motivation for shitting up the thread is obvious (the problem you have with Hiro Mementoss is that you haven't quite grasped Hiro has gone into full troll mode, and you feel he might just be horribly wrong or something). Hiro dies today. | ||
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On September 24 2012 23:15 Mementoss wrote: Alright, I just didn't think that Zephridd and Hiro could be scum together was the main reason why I thought hiro might be town because I was more confident in my read on Zephridd. Cause I didn't think Zephridd would go from one Bus to the other Bus. I think IAMperfection has been given a free ride almost as much as Zephridd and would like some updated discussion regarding his alignment. I don't have time ATM, but I think we need to use today for more than vote hiro, incase hiro flips town. There's no reason NOT to go from bus to bus, if that was indeed the case. I still agree with Palmar/Hapa's assessment of iamp's play though and think he is townie. I also agree we need to use today for more than killing Hiro (and it is precisely his trolling that is trying to prevent discussion of other things), which is why I'm so keen to hear more from BL and Ange right now. | ||
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On September 24 2012 23:42 Bluelightz wrote: *Raises hand* Yeah, I'm gonna go serious mode then probably ![]() what iamp said. Why don't you like, try now? Is that totally beyond you for some reason? | ||
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Tell me, why aren't you reading the thread? | ||
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On September 24 2012 23:58 Bluelightz wrote: I have been reading the thread, to be honest, Ive been lurking while reading the thread, bringing the occasional X is scum because of Y and Z. If you had been reading the thread, there is no way at all you would have missed that I claimed Jailkeeper. How did you miss it if you've been reading the thread? | ||
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Why are you lying to me? | ||
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Because you don't forget that someone claimed Jailkeeper if you'd actually read it. Tell me what's going on without trying to hide please. | ||
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On September 25 2012 00:05 Bluelightz wrote: I'm too lazy to post. I'm not scum. I'm not trying to hide anything. It's just I'm too lazy, as well as skipping large parts of the thread which I deem unnecessary to read (Okay I should stop that), and that I'm too lazy to re-read the thread. I literally just do not understand how you can have this attitude after what happened in GSL, it makes me really, really sad. But for now, there's not a lot else to say on the matter, so whatever. | ||
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On September 25 2012 00:10 Bluelightz wrote: It's hard to be motivated after being lynched and continuing the streak of town losses caused by your truly. Surely that's the reason to try your absolute best and turn things around, no? | ||
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On September 25 2012 00:22 Bluelightz wrote: "Bluelightz is helpful! He's probably scum! Like in Sum of all Fears Mafia! It's not normal isn't it?! He's scum!" Even then when I DO try and do it people still insist I'm scum, I break down when people just blob into me. Ok. Let's put it this way. You have a mostly confirmed town (me) who thinks you're probably town. This particular townie is very keen to hear your thoughts as you have them, and is also very keen for you to read the thread and participate as much as you can. I want to hear what you have to say because it will help. So going forwards, let's take that attitude, ok? <3 | ||
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On September 25 2012 00:31 Ange777 wrote: Ok, while I don't believe marv to be the serial killer, the logic seems sound. Am I missing something why we should kill scum first before serial killer if we were equally sure/suspicious of them? If the Serial Killer exists, we have no idea who he is. So it's beating a dead horse. Stop talking to Hiro and do other productive stuff. | ||
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That goes to absolutely everyone else. You are letting him derail the thread and by talking to him you are helping him fulfil his objectives. | ||
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On September 25 2012 00:59 Mementoss wrote: Wat how does that balance, 1 extra scum, double the KP. Same amount of players? :S because SK is neither pro town nor pro mafia. In other words, if mafia is winning, SK wants to hit scum. With two masons + JK + vigi, 2 scum setup is basically impossible. | ||
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when I made my original case on Hiro day 1, Ange was dead set on prplhz over Hiro at the time, for reasons that I thought to myself should make Hiro more likely scum than prplhz. I think there may even be a little back and forth day 1 where I pushed her on this. Food for thought. | ||
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On September 25 2012 01:20 marvellosity wrote: Just as a placeholder thought, more as a reminder to myself so I don't forget later: when I made my original case on Hiro day 1, Ange was dead set on prplhz over Hiro at the time, for reasons that I thought to myself should make Hiro more likely scum than prplhz. I think there may even be a little back and forth day 1 where I pushed her on this. Food for thought. Because I'm obsessed with fucking mafia, I went ahead and dug into this right now. When people are looking at this themselves, pay attention in filters/whatever to timestamps. On September 18 2012 23:54 Ange777 wrote: @marv: I don't remember if I've played with Hiro (probably not). Is there some meta play I should be aware of? Otherwise I can't understand why you are pushing a HiroPro lynch when I feel like prplhz is far more scummy. On September 19 2012 00:35 Ange777 wrote: @marv: I am far more comfortable lynching someone I have a scum read on (prplhz) than a semi-lurker (HiroPro). Especially as I feel that his posting is exactly the same as GSL Open. Why is prplhz scummy? From what I gather from Ange's filter, it's mostly because he hasn't scumhunted. Thus: On September 18 2012 17:26 Ange777 wrote: Ok, after reading the thread there are a few matters which strike me. prplhz Actually I am not that sold on the effort in scum hunting he has done. I was equally suspicious of his first post as the last game I played with him had the exact same kind of starting post. After having defended himself against Blazinghand's case he proceeded to give us 3 town reads and stated that he is suspicious of marv due to the lack of posts. The case generated so much discussion that I find it unlikely that all he gained from it was town reads. Where are your scum reads? @Blazinghand: I liked his explanation for the starting post as well but your case was not just based on the starting post but on his lack of activity/scum hunting as well. So why switch off of him? It seems like an easy way to change your vote even though he has not delivered what you were asking from him: scum hunting. On September 18 2012 22:01 Ange777 wrote: @prplhz: What makes you think my play is terrible? And why does thinking the Kenpachi/Zephirdd Rule is bullshit entitle you to just ignore cases? Just because someone posts bullshit does not mean that it can't help you uncover scum. Again I don't see any kind of scum hunting from you. Scum? A lack of scumhunting, right. The problem is this: up to that point, Hiro had literally not done any scumhunting whatsoever, and Ange is dismissing it as a "semi-lurker lynch": On September 19 2012 00:35 Ange777 wrote: @marv: I am far more comfortable lynching someone I have a scum read on (prplhz) than a semi-lurker (HiroPro). Especially as I feel that his posting is exactly the same as GSL Open. What prplhz had provided though, is this following post: On September 18 2012 08:54 prplhz wrote: Yea I had just queue a game of DotA2 when you posted it and then I decided that I would rather see how it other people reacted before shooting it down. I don't really get the first argument. You are saying that my first posts are similar in my scum games, this doesn't make me scum. Then you argue that the first posts themselves have a distinct scummy agenda which is very disputable but more importantly, do you really think that any scum feel the need to push any agenda in their first post? I think that my first post is townie, I think that for all of those scum games you posted. At least the content is townie. Not everything scum posts is scummy. As for the "He's not quick to vote", no that's right, I didn't vote yet during the first 30 minutes of the game. I think it's a very thin argument that I should be scum because of that. I think I like to play both styles styles of "aggressive" and "careful and prodding" as town, I guess it all depends on what mood I am in. Anyway, I think your case on me looks townie and with everything else you've posted I'm pretty confident that you're town. austinmcc, I thought this guy looked really scummy up until this post. It's especially his explanation of that single word "OBVIOUS" that seems very townie to me. It looks like he really thought carefully about my alignment and didn't consider covering his own ass or anything like that. I like that. Townie for now. Mementoss is a little harder. I think he just voted me because I posted a dumb picture and corrected his grammar. That can be really antagonizing I hate when people do that to me when I make a dumb little mistake. Overall I've got a townie feeling about him. marvellosity is pretty shabby for now. Show me some of that "thinky" that you promised before the game. We also need everybody else to join the game and post some more. Hiro had not even provided this. So we're left with the situation where Ange is pushing prplhz because he's far "scummier" than Hiro, based on the fact that prplhz hasn't scumhunted. HiroPro is only a "semi-lurker" despite the fact he had done absolutely no scumhunting himself and hadn't even provided a post like the one prplhz had above. I think Ange is the final scum. | ||
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On September 25 2012 04:16 HiroPro wrote: Don't be fooled by the pictures, guys! He did it only under pressure from me so it doesn't really count. And if you look carefully he's holding a knife, so he's subconsciously indicating that he's a serial killer! Ah, I see you take issue with the knife. Not the "Hiro is scum" bit. <3 | ||
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On September 25 2012 21:47 iamperfection wrote: Well it kind of hinges on how much she looked at hiro those first days. I could see a scenario where she didn't take that hard of a look as town. From my own perspective players come and go from my radar so maybe hiro wasen't on her radar and she didn't consider him that much. the difference is that i pushed her on why prplhz and not Hiro | ||
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On September 25 2012 22:30 Ange777 wrote: The difference is that prplhz has posted things which made him scummy in my opinion while Hiro had not posted things which made him scummy in your opinion. We had totally different arguments and view points in this matter. Usually I try to refrain from reading to much into day 1 activity because it is only day 1 and it's not always accurate to judge people from their day 1 activity. Actually Day 1 is arguably the most important day, imo. What was specifically scummy about prplhz? I mean, I pulled up the quotes and your main argument was that he wasn't scumhunting. What else? | ||
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On September 25 2012 22:31 marvellosity wrote: Actually Day 1 is arguably the most important day, imo. What was specifically scummy about prplhz? I mean, I pulled up the quotes and your main argument was that he wasn't scumhunting. What else? | ||
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On September 25 2012 22:36 Ange777 wrote: Why is day 1 the most important day? Right, that quote was from a day later than when I was pushing you on prplhz/Hiro differences, before prplhz had made the case on me. At the time the only differences were that... prplhz had posted a bit more than Hiro? There had been no scumhunting from either of them, and indeed as in my post last page, at least prplhz had made a post with thoughts on players. Day 1 is important because you can pick up on interactions with players that are made before the game has been steered down a certain course. | ||
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![]() I guess most of all I want to know who you want to lynch and exactly why (apart from Hiro ofc :D) | ||
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about zeph... gonna wait until after the flip when we have more info | ||
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On September 26 2012 07:19 Mementoss wrote: your going to die according to hiro so leave a nice death note plz I have lots of thoughts. What I really want from everyone during this night phase is everyone's best efforts in finding the final scum, and discussing why they think their read is the final scum. I want you guys as much as possible to do this before I die tonight, so I'm around to talk about it with you, as obviously it'll affect my deadline post too. | ||
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On September 26 2012 10:16 Hapahauli wrote: Moar unconfirmed townies need to post. Still waiting on Zeph, Bluelightz, and Ange. I'll get to my reads sometime tonight (or tomorrow), but my voting decisions tomorrow will be heavily influenced by how willing unconfirmed townies are to provide original analysis. Also: @ Ange What's with your activity level? You're much more active in your other town games, and you mentioned you'd be more available after the weekend. Yeah, cmon guys :< | ||
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On September 26 2012 22:05 Zephirdd wrote: hmmm so you're the SK? >_>" My reads so far are.. Ange - town that people are shitting on. Everything she has done so far can exist from a town perspective. Zephirdd - Fucking towniest guy ever iamperfection - he was terrible day 1, looked better day 2. To be honest, his play makes some sense from a SK perspective: Blazinghand was a nobrainer shot, and he had a town read on austin closer to the end of the day - SK's usually want town mislynches dead when they think a scum catch is more likely the next day. austin was about to be mislynched, and I see no reason for scum to kill him, but that seems plausible for a SK to do. Bluelightz - scum by process of elimination. I don't think ange is scum, I don't think IMP is mafia. what do you guys think of this possibility? I'm trying to avoid the general mindset here, because I think Ange isn't as bad as make her out to be. LAL Everything BL has done can exist from a BL townie perspective too, no? | ||
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On September 26 2012 22:19 Zephirdd wrote: @marv Yes, but my feel with an ange lynch is that the same that happened with bluelightz on GSL will happen here. I don't want to open the thread and see that I lost because he was the scum. Yeah, but that's just emotional claptrap without real factual or analytical basis | ||
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On September 26 2012 23:57 Mementoss wrote: why is everyone talking about an SK all the time when there isn't one, there hasn't been the KP for one. Also I will be back later with reads really busy today. unless you're lying about vigi / there's an unclaimed blue, there's an SK. More details at one minute before deadline ![]() | ||
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On September 27 2012 00:01 Mementoss wrote: Alright lol, well I guess its seems a lot less likely from my perspective then. no, it should seem a lot MORE likely from your perspective. Presuming you're vigi, you know you're telling the truth, and the setup is: VJMMTTT = 3mafia + SK | ||
marvellosity
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marvellosity
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On September 27 2012 00:15 iamperfection wrote: well then im confused because im a regular townie VJMM is Mementoss/me/prplhz/Hapa, the rest of the townies would be VTs | ||
marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
The C9 setup is made by rolling 7 numbers, but 7 isn't the total number of townies ![]() | ||
marvellosity
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<3 | ||
marvellosity
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On September 27 2012 01:56 Mementoss wrote: This is the only reason why i think there might be a SK and cause of marvs mumbo jumbo set-up talk. But this makes me think mafia was a bit pissed to hit the SK either night 1 or night 2. And to try and set up a better chance for his last team mate to win. Or just to scare town into believing there is an SK. Another hypotehtical: Night 1: Mafia hits SK SK hits BH I hit mkfuba Night 2: SK hits austinmcc to attempt not to overlap mafia night kill Mafia hits Hapa who was JK'd by Marv. Hiro is using this post as a last attempt to try and even the score, and get 2 kills tonight to give his last teammate a better chance ftw. The setup shows SK with the roles we know. What the fuck is this "the only reason I think there might be" | ||
marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On September 27 2012 02:11 Mementoss wrote: I think you missed the "and cause of marvs mumbo jumbo set-up talk". Also I was wondering does can J and D be interchanged for that set-up wiki. It can, I checked with ghost | ||
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marvellosity
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basically you're a V that's all you need to know | ||
marvellosity
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Serial Killer According to our known setup, and I spent some time clarifying some stuff with ghost, TTTMMJV means we have 3 scum and a serial killer. So really Mementoss must be telling the truth otherwise we'd have a setup without a Serial Killer, which is what he'd be hiding. What I think happened with the night kills: N1: either SK didn't shoot (no reason to reveal himself N1) or SK and Mafia ended up stacking on BH. I got roleblocked. No other roleblocks were claimed, so Mafia/SK might think there's no jailer. N2: I have massive sway over the town having just pushed the Palmar lynch through. I also decided Hiro was scum during the day, and had strong suspicions of austin for his relations with Palmar. In this situation it'd be absolutely suicidal for scum to hit austin, so I'm going to presume it was the SK hit. I am also going to assume I saved Hapa from the mafia kill, as mafia probably thought they could kill him with impunity, thinking no JK from rb actions the previous night. Who is scum? I think Ange is the final scum. Various thinking errors like not seeing my point on austin, iamp at the time of the day 1 lynch, and something else that I forget right now. Hapa also notes her drop off in activity, and has the same scumread for somewhat different reasons, which is reassuring. That said, it may not be the case. I know it goes without saying, but if you flip Ange and she's town, you need to be considering everybody, even people like iamp, who I've thought was town most of the game, but could be playing a really sneaky game under the radar as scum (I don't think it's the case, but it's possible) I think Bluelightz is town. Don't know how to explain so well, but the feeling from everything I saw is that he's town. Could be wrong, but I don't think I am. Who is the Serial Killer? I have very strong feelings that the Serial Killer is Zephirdd. I would say he is more likely to be Serial Killer than everyone else put together. Mementoss' case earlier kinda read like a SK case to me. My read throughout the game has been swinging on Zeph, which is a tell in that regard. Generally his play seems a bit weird, which points me towards him too. To reiterate, I really think that Zeph is our SK. iamperfection would be my 2nd choice, but he's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay behind Zeph in my SK reckonings. What's going down tonight? The expected turn of events is that Mafia hits me, and SK hits someone else. Both factions have a serious need to start killing off townies after two scum lynches in a row. It's always possible that SK holds their shot for some reason, or SK stacks on me (?) or basically something funky happens, and of course you should consider all possibilities, but I'm going to make the assumption that Mafia is hitting me, and SK is hitting someone else. I jailed Ange tonight. This means various things. If I survive and someone else dies, it's fairly likely I've blocked mafia KP on to myself. If I die and no-one else dies, it means Ange is quite likely to be the Serial Killer, and the mafia's shot on me went through. If two shots go through, Ange is confirmed town. Good luck town <3 | ||
marvellosity
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marvellosity
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On September 27 2012 06:34 Zephirdd wrote: marv could you outline exactly why do I look like a SK? no can't be bothered you just do | ||
marvellosity
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good god, i was right about everything | ||
marvellosity
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On September 27 2012 06:48 Zephirdd wrote: marv = MVP my intention was to play townie like(except towards day3) in order to just survive till lylo. idk why the scum team didn't shoot marv day 2 though. http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/shvBuiPagrd ^qt where I talk to myself. zeph 09-26-2012 05:20 PM ET (US) god damn it marv. lol | ||
marvellosity
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day/night actions | ||
marvellosity
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On September 27 2012 07:40 Blazinghand wrote: Good game everyone! I had fun. Town played quite well, but I can't believe you guys were always up on Bluelightz' ass. Bluelightz gonna Bluelightz. I got all up on his ass so I could try to confirm the town read on him that I had, which is what occurred. I never wanted to lynch him despite what I threatened. | ||
marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
Zeph: basically what I said in my jailpost, you had posts that seemed pretty townie but interspersed with posts that really weren't. So you were an odd read for me Day 2. After the nightkill of austin (making it obvious SK was present, and also your posts/behaviour around austin too) everything pretty much clicked into place and I became convinced it was you. | ||
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