EPTDeath Note Mini Mafia
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
Personally, as scum, I love policy lynches that aren't "Lynch All Liars". If the town lynches based on policy and not behaviors and inconsistencies then mafia can hide behind the policy lynch and kill townies day in and day out. There's no serious reason for a townie to abstain from voting besides the fear of voting for the wrong person or a general lack of interest in the game, something that is less common with scum. Newer scum players also have a team to advise them on how to act whereas a newer or less confident townie can only rely on his or her own judgment. Are scum given safe roleclaims or specific town-aligned role names? | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
Lying is more directly meaningful. If you vote just for lurkers, the mafia can congregate and influence the vote to lynch a town-aligned lurker so I don't think it helps much. You have to consider content first. Anyway, it's too early for me to say if I have any reads at all. I've yet to read anything that has jumped out at me. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
In any case, lies deserve more analysis and suspicion than someone not posting for a couple hours. That's all. When I say I could get behind LAL as a policy lynch, I think people should vote and pressure people caught lying to force them to defend themselves and post often. That's the worst case scenario for scum anyway. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On August 31 2012 14:52 Shady Sands wrote: But if scum wagon a townie lurker, doesn't that also expose them all conveniently onto one wagon once the lurker flips green? Are you suggesting that scum here might decide to put all their votes on one lynch? No but let's say there are 3 lurkers in the game. 1 is scum and 2 are town. Scum have consolidated voting power and they only need to win by 1 vote to get a townie lynched. All they have to do is have one person vocally push one of the town lurkers. When that person flips green, that person might come under mild suspicion but it'll likely get buried before the day is through. Chances are town will vote for that lurker too so it's not really that helpful to analyze the votes. When you lynch a lurker you don't learn anything because there wasn't any behavior or real analysis behind it. You just move onto the next lurker and hope they're scum this time. That doesn't mean scum have to put all their votes on the same dude or even push the same guy. It's never that black and white. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On August 31 2012 15:39 Shady Sands wrote: If you don't post your reads soon I will be forced to vote you. This has always been my policy. Go for it. I prefer not to waste my time making a forced case because someone asked me for my "reads". | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
Town wouldn't breadcrumb if they know mafia has a safeclaim and they wouldn't breadcrumb without knowing that. He didn't ask. Mafia, however, immediately like to abuse any defense they have. There is inherent guilt. If supplied with a safeclaim it's a very reasonable thing to do. I missed the Zephirrds post about the safeclaims because I'm very unattentive. When I first entered the thread, I only scanned and read the longer posts and made my comments about policy lynches. I forgot the game was starting tonight and saw my role PM right before I was about to watch a movie. Why would a townie, after making a specific reference to his role name then immediately post that he will no longer be using real role names? Why would he even need to tell us that? Is he afraid someone is going to point it out as an inconsistency? the first two posts in the thread are him and they're both passively defensive. Scum like to announce things that are meaningless for some reason. In his post history, he only goes on and on about lurkers and other bullshit like that. It's so tired and worthless. "Lurking is anti-town." What a revelation. Mafia are no more likely to lurk than town are and if town goes on a "let's kill the lurkers" bend how easy is it for the scum team to tell everyone on the team to just post a lot? It's stupid. ##vote Hapahauli Also, just an aside regarding "reads". I consider them totally worthless. I will post and try to get someone lynched if I think they are mafia. I will not post a list of "suspects" or "reads" or make bullet points or anything like that. It has no value. Waste of a post. I almost made VE quit a game because I talked down on him so much for posting reads lists and other things like that so don't expect that out of me regardless of my alignment. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On August 31 2012 17:40 Palmar wrote: The world can't handle my greatness. I have no idea what's going on. Apparently I'm a detective but there's nothing that says I can investigate anyone. I haven't read the op or the game, I'll get back to you when I have. it's just the flaavor word for vt btw strongandbig if you're fake claiming that's probably the smartest mafia fake claim i've ever seen. if you actually flip kira or something by the end of this game, i applaud you for a bold move like that | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
Imagine if you had a town that actually just lynched the person with the least posts every day. Mafia would auto-win. It's stupid. This charge against me is bald-faced OMGUS. Of course it's not a rock solid case. It's Day 1. I wouldn't even bet 10 bucks on it. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
Also, the miller claim. It basically protects scum from the DT. If you get DT checked you'd return scum in stead of self-aware miller so nobody can confirm it until you're dead and it gives you a point of argument if you do get DT checked. I need to go over his first post a bit closer but By the way can we please not lynch or FoS people for being absent from the thread until certain times? I normally wake up between 2-4 PM PST and am quite busy most of the day so keep that in mind. On September 01 2012 04:59 marvellosity wrote: Alright. You and ghost were both doing the same thing effectively so the explanation is reasonable. I don't wanna lynch Mementoss. He's cute. The thing with Blackmamba - the case was bad, ok. But if it was to cause discussion, then fine. Except he hasn't been around to actually deal with the discussion, and I find that scummy. I'd fucking love to policy lynch Zentor but annoyingly I can't quite bring myself to  ##Vote: Blackmamba24 Because only scum sleep in late or get sinus infections. I don't think there is a clear disconnect in the way Marvellosity sees MrZentor. If, in his mind, he thinks lynching Zentor is a good idea he's going to be biased and find and see things that support that preconceived notion. I'm guilty of building connections based on bad cases or even people I wasn't really that suspicious of because I want to be right. It's something that happens. I think SNB's strange disconnect is a lot more suspicious. I need to carefully read his first post some more because his claim did throw me off which is why if he is indeed scum I congratulate him for doing a move like that. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On September 01 2012 07:15 Hapahauli wrote: It goes beyond "not a rock-solid case." It's a terrible case. And everyone around here is telling me that you aren't a terrible player. You're right - now I'mma gonna lynch you. Of course you think that, I voted for you. You're using a lot of strong language but not providing any reason why we should always policy lynch lurkers. There is value in pressuring lurkers at certain stages in the game because scum need to be forced to talk but it's not that simple. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
Ok, you're not worth talking to. Anyway can anyone familiar with strongandbigs meta tell me if it is normal for him, as town, to make huge fucking posts immediately and add a ton of bravado like that into anything he says cause if not I'm saying we should lynch him. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On September 01 2012 07:24 strongandbig wrote: At the time when I brought up rng'ing the lurker lynch, the only cases we had in the thread were on you and on hapa. Do you disagree that if there are no reasonable cases, a policy or lurker lynch makes sense? I really don't see this "contradiction". Even if something is a bad choice, sometimes there are no better choices, and at that point in the day it looked like this lynch might be one of those times. There's always a case. There's always a weird feeling about something someone said that seemed "off" or even a connection between two players. It's just weird that you didn't qualify that statement or mention your distaste for policy lynches until later, it makes it seem to me, like you're trying to appear as "with the town" as you can. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On September 01 2012 07:32 Mementoss wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359357&user=116463 day 1 pokemafia SnB There's nothing in the OP, what alignment was he in this game? | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On September 01 2012 07:37 Mementoss wrote: Only thing I noticed is in pokemafia he seemed to try and be a town leader, and lead cases. In this game he seems to be more going with the flow. imo In this game he got to the point and didn't write 10000 word posts about nothing except how town he is because town has no reason to do that. the only reason I'm not voting SNB right now is because fakeclaims always throw me for a loop and I could second-guess myself for a very long time. I'll probably make up my mind within the next few hours, I need to meditate or at least have some breakfast. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On September 01 2012 07:51 Hapahauli wrote: Pardon my skepticism, but is this really a scumtell? Even if he historically makes smaller posts as town, I can't imagine why making larger posts would make him mafia, even on a meta-basis. One scum almost always takes it upon themselves to make large posts early on and establish themselves as very very "pro-town". They love buzzwords like "anti-town" and other stupid things like that. I just can't see any reason for a townie to spend that much time, early in the game, establishing their townieness unless there is a mayoral election or something like that. The fakeclaim is throwing me off. There's also that contradiction that you yourself pointed out. I can understand why a scum player would defend me as well, they might be thinking there's no reason to go after me early on and get OMGUS'd or get my attention when they can kill me at night but I'm not really that good. My town meta is to pin the entire mafia team Day 2 and then vote for everyone else instead. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
##Vote Mementoss Something inside me screams "no god no" when there is an "easy" lynch Day 1 but there's no getting around how wishy washy Mementoss is with his first accusation, easiest player to accuse in the game because he's unlikely to even be motivated enough to defend himself adequately, and throws in a lot of useless reads (god i hate when people post "reads") which just clutters up a post which should be focused. @Shady you should probably wait more than 20 minutes before you get mad about people "ignoring" your case btw. If your problem is Ghost not making real cases and being wishy washy (something that checks out with his meta, as he even said as town in one game that he generally refuses to make cases) then why the rogue vote on him instead of mmtoss? | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On September 01 2012 08:05 strongandbig wrote: Or maybe it's not a fake claim and I'm actually a miller? And I want to deal with that and get it out of the way in a game full of detectives? Occam's razor, man. One terrible case is excusable, but two is too much to be a coincidence. I mean seriously, what you're saying is that I tried too hard to help town out when I told everyone that I'm a miller, and therefore I must be scum? In what world does that make sense? I haven't played mafia in a long time but you can go back through every game I played and this has always been my main argument on Day 1. I would have nailed GMarshal with it that one time but I second-guessed myself and got in an argument with kavdragon and killed him instead. I've seen it happen in every game I've hosted or been scum in. Usually when I'm scum, I'm the one out there establishing myself as townie as possible. You'll notice I didn't vote for you though so maybe you should relax | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On September 01 2012 08:12 Hapahauli wrote: @BM24 - Wait - why aren't you voting SnB after all the suspicion you just piled on him? Also, this post by mementoss doesn't give you any townie vibes at all? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=13#258 Because I'm more unsure when it comes to SNB and no, it doesn't. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On September 01 2012 08:13 Hapahauli wrote: Stop it. You don't have a "bandwagon" on you. Second of all, you're pretending like that case of yours never existed. what the one against you? how am i pretending it doesnt exist it's day 1 and i had like what 2-3 votes against me pretty recently, that's a bandwagon isn't it? for someone who wants me lynched so bad and is so sure i'm scum you should stop wasting your time attacking everything I say and try to rally the troops | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On September 01 2012 08:28 Risen wrote: Ok I'm done. Nothing ever changes in these games because you all just let shitty play happeen. Meta shift from Risen inc. I'm going to start trolling and then once in a while I'll post an awesome case so I get supported by anecdote. If you hate Palmar that much stop playing in games where he /ins and stop acting like a bitch. You should be modkilled for this martyr shit. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On September 01 2012 08:38 Shady Sands wrote: DrH can you please use one account while posting? Makes digging through your filter unnecessarily difficult when you swtich back and forth between your alt and your main acct Sorry, I hit flood limits a lot with this account because it is new and I'm very very impatient which is why I tend to spam a lot in games. it takes a lot of effort for me to be able to withhold from posting even when it isn't helpful. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On September 01 2012 08:40 Hapahauli wrote: @BM24 - At what point in the last 5 pages did I attack you for the policy junk? I didn't. I've made it clear what I'm attacking you for and you're failure to read is mindblowing. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=15#297 If you think this counts as "jumping on you for lurking" - I don't even know what to say. Either you're just not reading, or you're mafia, or both. @ShadySands - Read your case on ghost, and tbh I still read him as null. Him being inconsistent and whatever isn't necessarily scummy. His sudden switch from indecisiveness to voting for mementoss actually reads as slightly townie to me. It would be really easy for him to avoid that contradiction (as mafia) and yet he didn't. You're right, I actually did misread that. Anyway, there's nothing scummy about my case and it's clear you're just really mad that I voted for you early on so get over it and play the game. If you really think I'm scum stop pointlessly bickering with me. I'm not even putting in enough effort to read every sentence in your posts so it's not gonna go anywhere. Rally the troops, try to get me lynched, or shut up about my "case". | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
In Arkham he even lied about being the leader of the scum team just to fuck with people and iirc he was town (or maybe third party) in that. Hapahauli, reread MMtoss's defense. Is it really convincing? He doesn't defend himself so much as he attacks Shady Sands (while not voting for him or accusing him, odd.) who in my mind is one of the most obviously town players here. He just says what he's doing isn't scummy but I really don't agree. The way he throws his "reads" (i.e. always useless scummy fluff shit) into a case which is a bad case to begin with is completely off-base. This could be a case of bad town, it's Day 1 we statistically are almost sure to lynch a townie today, but at least it's something. Palmar gives us nothing. The flip is useless. This is a policy "I don't like Palmar" vote. The only "case" against him is a lazy meta read. Even if Mementoss flips town we have another thing to consider when going back through Day 1 and reading peoples posts. Palmar is a bad vote. The worst vote. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On September 01 2012 09:13 Hapahauli wrote: I'm going to keep my vote on Palmar for a bit. As it stands, there are a couple of people I want to hear more from before I decide what to do with my vote - namely those that haven't voted yet. I'll give em an hour. Relooking at some filters, I'm growing a bit wary of HiroPro, and his actions seem to follow a scum thought-process.
Thoughts? That's a bit misleading. He was not convinced at all by MMtoss' first defense and only unvoted after MMtoss cleared it up further. If he was looking for a reason to drop his case, he would have done it sooner than that. MMtoss later addresses HiroPro's main suspicion and the answer satisfied him. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On September 01 2012 09:19 Node wrote: I'm going to vote for BlackMamba. Here's why: This is such an incredibly wrong and scummy statement that it's unbelievable. Think about what it means for just a second. Mamba is saying that going out of your way to establish your townieness is unnecessary -- even scummy. It's even one of the first rules in Ver's guide: establish your own innocence in order to create a good atmospere and make it easier to find scum. (forgive me for not citing it directly at this moment; my resources are limited) Now, why would he want to enforce this? Only scum could possibly want to establish an atmosphere where showing your innocence is a bad thing. There's also the insinuation that claiming self-aware miller is a poor choice, the questionable case against Hapa (dismissed with an "I wasn't-really-trying" excuse), and the statement that voting for someone doing as little as Palmar would actually be a bad idea. All of this comes together to show somebody that isn't trying to establish a pro-town atmosphere, is pushing the wrong targets, and is definitely scum. ##vote BlackMamba24 I've played in a million games with you saying the same thing every time and this is the first time you've said anything about it. It's been something I looked for ever since RoL nailed the fuck out of Annul in my mini mafia game for it and after I missed axing GMarshal for the same thing. Other good scumhunters have looked for this. Inherent guilt leads to scum trying to establish innocence when not necessary. Concerning themselves with making themselves looking town instead of finding scum. I never dismissed my case against HApa, I'm just not voting for him now because I feel better about something else. Is till think his first two posts were stupid and set off little scum alarms in my head. But they're little. It was 5 hours into the game. It's nice to see you come back into the game after a day with a case that sounds like it was written by someone else at the last minute to push the vote to get rid of me | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On September 01 2012 09:17 Hapahauli wrote: That's the interesting part - he tunnels MMtoss until I explicitly point out his "first defense" (the longer post I take it?) to HiroPro. Then HiroPro posts that he's waiting for MMtoss to respond to him. Then he immediately drops his read after MMtoss responds. That's not suspicious. He was saying MMtoss' defense wasn't adequate because he didn't address the point. Then when MMtoss addressed the point, he was satisfied. What's scummy about that? We can't have another bandwagon switch right now, the vote is close and there's not a lot of time left in the day. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On September 01 2012 09:25 Hapahauli wrote: Because it was too easy. After tunneling MMtoss the entire game, HP was satisfied with just that post? Seriously? I call BS. Why not? tunneling the entire game was like all of a few hours and it seemed to satisfy you so why is it "too easy" when HiroPro likes his answer and not when you like his answer? | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
since when is it scummy anyway to change your mind "too easy" is meaningless what does that even mean it's not like MMtoss defense was so stellar he couldn't have continued pushing him if it was really his scum agenda | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On September 01 2012 09:35 Shady Sands wrote: Except Hapa never formalized his PoV on mementoss into a case or laid a vote on him. He just agreed with someone's read on Mementoss, and that's it. That's a heck of a lot weaker than making a 400 word post on him and voting. BUt I thought the main criticism of HiroPro other than that was that his case was a summation of Hapahauli's suspicions of mementoss? Hapahauli told me himself that after reading his defense he thought MMtoss was town for that. But if HiroPro comes to the same conclusion that makes him scum? don't be stupid. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
It's misleading to say he tunneled anyone the entire game because he made his case, asked for a proper response, got it soon after. You can't say he changed his mind instantly AND tunneled this person all game. Those two statements contradict each other in principle. What you should be saying is the case he made on Mementoss was too strong to be dropped so easily, but then that's also admitting that it was a valid case in the first place. It's weird to be the basis of someones case against someone which more or less puts you on their side and then accuse them of being scum for coming to the same conclusion as you and in fact HiroPro came to that conclusion LATER than Haupa did. Haupa pointed out his first defense to me as the thing that made him think MMtoss was town (which seems to be a change of heart from the beginning of the game) whereas HiroPro rejected that and waited for a more direct response. That's what real pressure is. This is ridiculous. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On September 01 2012 09:55 Hapahauli wrote: He showed NO intention of dropping his read against MMToss until I confronted him about it, then insta-dropped his read! That was the post I was referring to. It didn't satisfy HiroPro but it satisfied you so how can you say he dropped his suspicions too quick when you dropped them even quicker? He didn't drop it because you pressured it, he didn't drop it until MMtoss directly answered his question and main point of his case. I don't see what is so hard to understand about that... | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
Haupa just relax for one minute and take a step back. Why is it scummy to change your mind? why is it scummy to accept someones defense? If his intention was to build a fake case, why didn't he drop it earlier when MMToss initially defending himself? Why continue to pressure then drop it as soon as he gives a more direct answer? That proves, to me, that he had a genuine interest in his case. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On September 01 2012 10:31 Hapahauli wrote: Howabout this - were the other 4 people voting for MMtoss find it convincing? Hell HiroPro's case is in two parts: 1) MMToss's first post (fluff/fingerpointing) 2) MMToss's association HiroPro instantly accepts defense to #2 when #1 is still in the air. You're wandering away from the point. You have no real reason to put suspicion on anyone for changing their mind based on a defense when it's something everyone does. Maybe you have some sort of weird solipsitic viewpoint but it's pretty clear to me reading both your filters that you had nothing to do with HiroPro dropping his pressure on Mementoss. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
Apparently that means something. I'm restating it. I don't know if I get special powers or whatever now but that's a thing that's just happened. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
I've been only sitting down for increments of like 10-15 minutes and because there's so little to go off of on Day 1 (relatively) there is a lot of second guessing and hard thought to be put into it that I don't currently have time for. If I end up with a DT power or something like that, I'll be a lot less anxious about things. It's not unusual for me as town to change my vote something like 8 or 10 times on Day 1 and I'm trying to avoid doing that now. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On September 01 2012 10:44 Shady Sands wrote: Black, even if you're not convinced by Hapa's line of reasoning for a vote, if you do become Cop, please, please, please check HP. I'll check whoever I feel like checking and will absolutely ignore any advice any of you give me. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On September 01 2012 10:56 MrZentor wrote: Solar, vote for Palmar. Be useful. You're the least useful person in this or any game so | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On September 01 2012 11:03 Risen wrote: Palmar needs a spanking. I'm pretty sure he's town as well since I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who was even angry at him and he now has 5 votes. Everyone else who voted for Palmar besides you is incredibly suspicious because you never even really accused him of being scum. Your case was "I don't like Palmar" and somehow that's the most convincing thing Day 1? I can't believe it. I don't want to be in this game anymore. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
the day one of the best scumhunters on tl mafia was lynched because some nobody doesn't like his playstyle and everyone seemed to think that was an adequate case im glad i came out of retirement for this | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On September 01 2012 11:12 HiroPro wrote: I'm voting for Mementoss. I have a null read on him, but I have no desire to lynch Palmar. Blackmamba has been picked as L's right so he is almost certainly town and I trust his judgement. ##Vote Mementoss Don't ever trust my Day 1 judgment, I won't really have anything useful to pop out until Day 2. That's almost always the case. I have some reads forming and some factions but they're all pretty dependent on what happens tonight and at the end of the day before I can say anything substantial. Anyway, L has no way of knowing my alignment when he picked me. My only power is receiving a short anonymous message from L. I'm assuming the point of this is so that I can broadcast his reads. This makes me mafia must-hit target #1. You figure out the rest. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On September 01 2012 11:14 Risen wrote: Is there a reason you trust his claim 100%? I don't see why a scum would lie about that, but I don't know why a townie would openly claim that, either, unless L told him to. Literal message I received: "Announce yourself in the thread as L's right hand and tell people to read the day post" | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
are you that stupid tl mafia players are you that fucking stupid | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On September 01 2012 11:35 Risen wrote: Well I can't say I'm surprised. Hope you learn your lesson. never play mafia again | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
If that town player who knows the significance of the role and knows that it is the equivalent of a miller, please come forward and tell us so that we can lynch strongandbig. If it is NOT a miller role then there is no need for you to reveal anything. | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
so it's probably a predetermined town aligned role | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On August 31 2012 22:53 marvellosity wrote: Why are you attacking Hapa for pressuring a pile of shit case? This was the post that made me "know" in a sense. Lazy me can't accomplish much. Anyway Hapahauli man you gotta take the blinders off your case against HiroPro was just amazingly bad I'm probably gonna be playing with you quite a bit in the future and it can't go on like this | ||
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BlackMamba24
United States277 Posts
On September 06 2012 14:13 Hapahauli wrote: Mmhm, I think me picking up on "townies don't think like this" was alright (considering he was L), but I should've considered the guy was a blue. Geebus that was bad. yeah but you didn't have a case not even like one single point against him nothing he did or said was untownlike or scummy | ||
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