On September 04 2012 07:48 Toadesstern wrote: The meaning was that I think he's a town blue and I therefore want to kill him as quickly as possible.
Or perhaps I don't like people pointing out useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game. I guess it has but what are we supposed to talk about the 2KP change or the vig addition he mentioned.
Well, there is nothing else to talk about then until a scumslip or something. Talking about rules and such is how you figure out people stances and opinions which leads to finding out who is playing like town and who is playing like scum.
On September 04 2012 07:48 Toadesstern wrote: The meaning was that I think he's a town blue and I therefore want to kill him as quickly as possible.
Or perhaps I don't like people pointing out useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game. I guess it has but what are we supposed to talk about the 2KP change or the vig addition he mentioned.
Well, there is nothing else to talk about then until a scumslip or something. Talking about rules and such is how you figure out people stances and opinions which leads to finding out who is playing like town and who is playing like scum.
you say that and yet we're talking about why I think sloOsh deservers a vote and wether or not you agree with me. Funny, isn't it?
Hmm, very true. But that lead from talking about the rules.
On September 04 2012 08:09 DoYouHas wrote: Well, as per usual I like lynching lurkers day 1 if a scummier option doesn't present itself.
Blues should do as they see fit. Discussion in that area only gives scum more points of reference for blue hunting.
In the past L has assured me that this is always the correct course of action, sooo
##Vote: Bill Murray
Why Bill Murray as opposed to any other lurker? Because he posted 20 minutes before the game started? I checked the thread 5 minutes before it started then went downstairs to do something else. I just don't see the point of voting this early when a scummier option is pretty much sure to present itself.
Meek and apologetic tone, parroting posts other people have already made, etc.
##Vote DoYouHas
That'll do for now.
He's probably just pressuring him. Plus BM has a reputation.
On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote: Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Errr... well I wasn't planning on anyone taking that image seriously.
I hate town circles. They're distracting to discussion and give people easy outs to "look" townie by "contributing" as opposed to scumhunting. I hate blue-oriented discussion in general really - it makes it easier for mafia to snipe blue roles by testing player reactions. Hell the idea of publicly determining blue actions is silly, considering it gives mafia the one information advantage that town has over mafia.
Could you clarify what you mean by this point?
Basically when someone goes and says "I got roleblocked" or "I was hit as a vet last night" scum now know something that previously only a townie knew. I don't think this is true all the time, as sometimes it's critical to get this info out to the rest of town, but I can see where Hapa is coming from
NONONOONONO As town ALWAYS tell town if you got hit/roleblocked unless some weird setup or something.
On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote: Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Errr... well I wasn't planning on anyone taking that image seriously.
I hate town circles. They're distracting to discussion and give people easy outs to "look" townie by "contributing" as opposed to scumhunting. I hate blue-oriented discussion in general really - it makes it easier for mafia to snipe blue roles by testing player reactions. Hell the idea of publicly determining blue actions is silly, considering it gives mafia the one information advantage that town has over mafia.
Could you clarify what you mean by this point?
Basically when someone goes and says "I got roleblocked" or "I was hit as a vet last night" scum now know something that previously only a townie knew. I don't think this is true all the time, as sometimes it's critical to get this info out to the rest of town, but I can see where Hapa is coming from
NONONOONONO As town ALWAYS tell town if you got hit/roleblocked unless some weird setup or something.
Why?
Town needs all the information possible. Mafia will already know this information.If it was a blue vigi shot then the blue willl already know and they won't have to tell town without outing themselves. Mafia will know if there were vigi shots because they killed the other people.
And all of you new players as town you gotta make stances, lists of reads do jack shit. A lot of you are sounding scummy and probably just because you're new, but actually town.
On September 06 2012 06:22 goodkarma wrote: @Ottox:
First:
On September 06 2012 04:53 Ottoxlol wrote:
On September 06 2012 04:41 BroodKingEXE wrote:
On September 06 2012 03:57 Ottoxlol wrote:
On September 06 2012 03:49 Z-BosoN wrote: @goodkarma Just because he is up on my suspicion bar does not mean that he is scum. He could very well be a bad townie. If he is, the only motivation he has for defending matt and attacking toad is that he actually thinks that toad is more suspicious than matt, and if so, he's doing a shitty job at explaining himself. Also, him being obnoxious doesn't contribute to his defense.
At least I am not that retarded to attack someone on the ground of their first post that was clearly a joke. I already explained my motivation two post ago. If you need some help understanding it you can ask for it nicely
You dont joke about scum reads. You're scum, because you are trying to derail a lynch and not trying to bring up another canidate. Real townie would create a case and present a new option, but scum dont want to give away to much and wont do that. They'll try to plug an easy lurker after a derail.
You are wrong. A joke is fine when the game is just started and there is nothing.
You say scum dont want to give away much. Thats my main concern too, no one has to add anything to why they vote Matt, thats why i am trying to get ppl to talk about it.
The problem with joking is that when you say something and then go back and say "just kidding," people don't know if you're a scum trying to cover up a blunder, or a townie who really is joking. That's why "joke" posts really aren't a good idea, as they do nothing to scumhunt. And if you're town, it's a fast track to getting suspicion placed on you all game long...
Second:
On September 06 2012 03:54 Ottoxlol wrote: Toad, I asked about the vote on Matt and he told me a bunch of things but dodged the question for 8-9 times.
Those who started focusing on Gravan but ignored me.
Those who voted Matt with a one liner.
I asked for your top scumread, and this doesn't cut it. Blanket accusing everyone who focused on Gravan but not you, as well as those who made one-line cases for Mattchew is not constructive. Like why is it that those who focused on Gravan alone are suspicious? You've never discussed this at all, and it requires further explanation.
And if you're going to discuss Toad as a top scumread, then please take more than one line to elaborate on it.
I was not the only one joking in the first half an hour, grush, Hapa, Toad made jokes too.
So about Toad, he was active a lot but failed to make a case on why is he voting Matt. You can see our conversation in our filters,
This is why I ask the same question again and again to get scum answer too. You guys are blinded by scum talking bs in the thread.
On September 04 2012 23:52 Maverick32x wrote: I voted for Matt due to the lying- but I would be curious to hear if he has a defense of some kind??
lol.
If matt was going to defend himself he would have said something by now other than "hey guys maybe I'm a VT trying to draw scum shots lol".
I've played a bunch of games with Mattchew recently and based on those, I think this is him as scum. For example, if I were going to fakeclaim miller as scum, I would do it very differently. However, you have to remember a couple things about Mattchew: - he's lazy as fuck as scum, except in themed games - he's pretty aggressive as town a lot of the time.
The example I was thinking about was from him in TL Mafia LV, where he and I were both town. He lied about taking a shot, and then when I suggested that it made no sense for him to take a scum shot and he might have been vigged, he attacked me like a moron for the rest of the game.
Unlike that, in this game his lie doesn't have any follow-up. If it was a planned-out pro-town lie, which I imagine is what he'll pretend it is, he would have been all over the first few people to attack him. Instead he just disappeared.
It seems much more likely that what he did was the same thing I did in deathnote - claimed miller without first asking the hosts whether millers are self-aware, and got caught for it. The difference is, I did it in a game with a closed setup.
##vote: mattchew
yeah Matt really is someone who's really in your face both as a townie and a mafia. He's incredible aggressive and / or borderline insulting if people don't think the same way he does.
As mafia he's telling people to shut up and that he doesn't need to explain his reads a bit because people are to retarded to understand it anyways when he knows he's right about something, e.g. when he's bussing a buddy, defending a townie to get towncred or geniunely meant something another way and people are misinterpreting what he said due to a type or something like that. As Town he does the same when he heavily think's he's right or when someone misunderstands him.
His calm and almost not existing involvement here defenitly is not what matt does when somethings "wrong" according to him. That either means he acknowledges that he screwed up as a town or that he acknowledges that he screwed up as a mafia and doesn't think it's going to help anymore. As already mentioned I don't see a reason at all for a town to fakeclaim like this and combine that with him "giving up" and you're good to go.
On September 04 2012 22:55 Ottoxlol wrote: Why so many people jump to vote Matt?
Whatever is his alignment he fucked up. Does this makes him scum?
Matt thought Noisys are aware of themselves. He has some kind of role. This is all we know.
If he's blue he could have done it to protect himself from scum.
If a scum would fakeclaim I think he would discuss it with his team first and do you all think every scum missed this thing? I highly doubt it. If anything Matt is a blue or assa.
This just provides an easy wagon to jump onto and removes d1 discussion as a whole, no town benefit from that. Just because he did not play well it doesnt mean he's scum.
a blue doctor, jailkeep, Tracker, Watcher or Vigi however has no reason to be afraid. Maybe a Mad Hatter would be hard to explain but I'd doubt someone would want to fakeclaim as miller like that as a Mad Hatter.
Picture the situation you're in as a blue: We have trackers and Watchers. What happens is that at some time someone could say "Hey guys, Matt visited X at night Y". If he's a doctor, tracker or a watcher that's no problem at all because the target in question didn't die. We want to know who visited people who ended up being dead. If he's a doc there's actually a chance he ended up saving someone and that someone could even confirm that. If he is a tracker or a Watcher he is able to claim the results, something Mafia is not able to do. So a Doc, Tracker or a Watcher are all perfectly fine and there's no reason to fakeclaim like this.
A Jailer can somewhat confirm himself as well as the target he visited ended up being roleblocked every single night. It's only "somewhat" because a mafia RB is possible as well but after all if he's a Jailer he's again only going to visit people who ended up surviving the night.
A vig is somewhat tricky as it's an extremly easy fakeclaim for mafia to do but as long as you claim prior to the deadline everyone's going to be fine with that.
A Mad Hatter is, like a vigi somewhat tricky but as everything else you visited people. That in itself is not a reason to be suspicious of someone and the Mad Hatter is most likely going to visit people who ended up surviving as well unless either the Hatter decides to go after townish looking people for whatever reason or mafia decides to go after bad looking townies for whatever reason.
tl;dr: There's not a single scenario in which a fakeclaim as a blue makes sense. At least I can't think of one because you won't end up being tracked to a kill in pretty much all the cases. On top of that noone is going to be stupid enough to out someone who visited a guy who's still alive because that's basicly outing medics / tracker / watcher in most of the cases.
However there are a bunch of good reasons to fakeclaim this as mafia if you forgot that millers / NN are usually not self-aware in 90% of the games and just did it because he recently played a game with self-aware millers. I think Bang-Bang mafia was one of those for example.
So there's a shitton of explanations from a mafia point of view. The only possible explanation from a town point of view would probably be "reversed psychology" although you're making yourself a target doing so, which isn't what a blue wants to do either unless he's a Hatter d2 or later.
On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote: People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time. If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen. That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense
My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely?
If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too. If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum)
Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss
Because there's no reason to fakeclaim as tracker. As a mafia you blend in as a townie.
not explaining why I'm voting Matt? Stop lying dude
On September 06 2012 06:22 goodkarma wrote: @Ottox:
First:
On September 06 2012 04:53 Ottoxlol wrote:
On September 06 2012 04:41 BroodKingEXE wrote:
On September 06 2012 03:57 Ottoxlol wrote:
On September 06 2012 03:49 Z-BosoN wrote: @goodkarma Just because he is up on my suspicion bar does not mean that he is scum. He could very well be a bad townie. If he is, the only motivation he has for defending matt and attacking toad is that he actually thinks that toad is more suspicious than matt, and if so, he's doing a shitty job at explaining himself. Also, him being obnoxious doesn't contribute to his defense.
At least I am not that retarded to attack someone on the ground of their first post that was clearly a joke. I already explained my motivation two post ago. If you need some help understanding it you can ask for it nicely
You dont joke about scum reads. You're scum, because you are trying to derail a lynch and not trying to bring up another canidate. Real townie would create a case and present a new option, but scum dont want to give away to much and wont do that. They'll try to plug an easy lurker after a derail.
You are wrong. A joke is fine when the game is just started and there is nothing.
You say scum dont want to give away much. Thats my main concern too, no one has to add anything to why they vote Matt, thats why i am trying to get ppl to talk about it.
The problem with joking is that when you say something and then go back and say "just kidding," people don't know if you're a scum trying to cover up a blunder, or a townie who really is joking. That's why "joke" posts really aren't a good idea, as they do nothing to scumhunt. And if you're town, it's a fast track to getting suspicion placed on you all game long...
Second:
On September 06 2012 03:54 Ottoxlol wrote: Toad, I asked about the vote on Matt and he told me a bunch of things but dodged the question for 8-9 times.
Those who started focusing on Gravan but ignored me.
Those who voted Matt with a one liner.
I asked for your top scumread, and this doesn't cut it. Blanket accusing everyone who focused on Gravan but not you, as well as those who made one-line cases for Mattchew is not constructive. Like why is it that those who focused on Gravan alone are suspicious? You've never discussed this at all, and it requires further explanation.
And if you're going to discuss Toad as a top scumread, then please take more than one line to elaborate on it.
I was not the only one joking in the first half an hour, grush, Hapa, Toad made jokes too.
So about Toad, he was active a lot but failed to make a case on why is he voting Matt. You can see our conversation in our filters,
This is why I ask the same question again and again to get scum answer too. You guys are blinded by scum talking bs in the thread.
Wtf. How is that:
On September 05 2012 00:45 Toadesstern wrote:
On September 05 2012 00:29 strongandbig wrote:
On September 04 2012 23:52 Maverick32x wrote: I voted for Matt due to the lying- but I would be curious to hear if he has a defense of some kind??
lol.
If matt was going to defend himself he would have said something by now other than "hey guys maybe I'm a VT trying to draw scum shots lol".
I've played a bunch of games with Mattchew recently and based on those, I think this is him as scum. For example, if I were going to fakeclaim miller as scum, I would do it very differently. However, you have to remember a couple things about Mattchew: - he's lazy as fuck as scum, except in themed games - he's pretty aggressive as town a lot of the time.
The example I was thinking about was from him in TL Mafia LV, where he and I were both town. He lied about taking a shot, and then when I suggested that it made no sense for him to take a scum shot and he might have been vigged, he attacked me like a moron for the rest of the game.
Unlike that, in this game his lie doesn't have any follow-up. If it was a planned-out pro-town lie, which I imagine is what he'll pretend it is, he would have been all over the first few people to attack him. Instead he just disappeared.
It seems much more likely that what he did was the same thing I did in deathnote - claimed miller without first asking the hosts whether millers are self-aware, and got caught for it. The difference is, I did it in a game with a closed setup.
##vote: mattchew
yeah Matt really is someone who's really in your face both as a townie and a mafia. He's incredible aggressive and / or borderline insulting if people don't think the same way he does.
As mafia he's telling people to shut up and that he doesn't need to explain his reads a bit because people are to retarded to understand it anyways when he knows he's right about something, e.g. when he's bussing a buddy, defending a townie to get towncred or geniunely meant something another way and people are misinterpreting what he said due to a type or something like that. As Town he does the same when he heavily think's he's right or when someone misunderstands him.
His calm and almost not existing involvement here defenitly is not what matt does when somethings "wrong" according to him. That either means he acknowledges that he screwed up as a town or that he acknowledges that he screwed up as a mafia and doesn't think it's going to help anymore. As already mentioned I don't see a reason at all for a town to fakeclaim like this and combine that with him "giving up" and you're good to go.
+
On September 04 2012 23:21 Toadesstern wrote:
On September 04 2012 22:55 Ottoxlol wrote: Why so many people jump to vote Matt?
Whatever is his alignment he fucked up. Does this makes him scum?
Matt thought Noisys are aware of themselves. He has some kind of role. This is all we know.
If he's blue he could have done it to protect himself from scum.
If a scum would fakeclaim I think he would discuss it with his team first and do you all think every scum missed this thing? I highly doubt it. If anything Matt is a blue or assa.
This just provides an easy wagon to jump onto and removes d1 discussion as a whole, no town benefit from that. Just because he did not play well it doesnt mean he's scum.
a blue doctor, jailkeep, Tracker, Watcher or Vigi however has no reason to be afraid. Maybe a Mad Hatter would be hard to explain but I'd doubt someone would want to fakeclaim as miller like that as a Mad Hatter.
Picture the situation you're in as a blue: We have trackers and Watchers. What happens is that at some time someone could say "Hey guys, Matt visited X at night Y". If he's a doctor, tracker or a watcher that's no problem at all because the target in question didn't die. We want to know who visited people who ended up being dead. If he's a doc there's actually a chance he ended up saving someone and that someone could even confirm that. If he is a tracker or a Watcher he is able to claim the results, something Mafia is not able to do. So a Doc, Tracker or a Watcher are all perfectly fine and there's no reason to fakeclaim like this.
A Jailer can somewhat confirm himself as well as the target he visited ended up being roleblocked every single night. It's only "somewhat" because a mafia RB is possible as well but after all if he's a Jailer he's again only going to visit people who ended up surviving the night.
A vig is somewhat tricky as it's an extremly easy fakeclaim for mafia to do but as long as you claim prior to the deadline everyone's going to be fine with that.
A Mad Hatter is, like a vigi somewhat tricky but as everything else you visited people. That in itself is not a reason to be suspicious of someone and the Mad Hatter is most likely going to visit people who ended up surviving as well unless either the Hatter decides to go after townish looking people for whatever reason or mafia decides to go after bad looking townies for whatever reason.
tl;dr: There's not a single scenario in which a fakeclaim as a blue makes sense. At least I can't think of one because you won't end up being tracked to a kill in pretty much all the cases. On top of that noone is going to be stupid enough to out someone who visited a guy who's still alive because that's basicly outing medics / tracker / watcher in most of the cases.
However there are a bunch of good reasons to fakeclaim this as mafia if you forgot that millers / NN are usually not self-aware in 90% of the games and just did it because he recently played a game with self-aware millers. I think Bang-Bang mafia was one of those for example.
So there's a shitton of explanations from a mafia point of view. The only possible explanation from a town point of view would probably be "reversed psychology" although you're making yourself a target doing so, which isn't what a blue wants to do either unless he's a Hatter d2 or later.
+
On September 05 2012 02:09 Toadesstern wrote:
On September 05 2012 02:01 Ottoxlol wrote:
On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote: People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time. If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen. That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense
My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely?
If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too. If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum)
Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss
Because there's no reason to fakeclaim as tracker. As a mafia you blend in as a townie.
not explaining why I'm voting Matt? Stop lying dude
Ottox has no idea what he is doing or he is scum.
I am trying to get ppl to talk about why they voted Matt. So far I got Toad as scum from that. What have you done mate?
BECAUSE HE SCUM SLIPPED. HOLY SHIT. YOU DONT GET IT DO YOU
On September 06 2012 06:22 goodkarma wrote: @Ottox:
First:
On September 06 2012 04:53 Ottoxlol wrote:
On September 06 2012 04:41 BroodKingEXE wrote:
On September 06 2012 03:57 Ottoxlol wrote: [quote]
At least I am not that retarded to attack someone on the ground of their first post that was clearly a joke. I already explained my motivation two post ago. If you need some help understanding it you can ask for it nicely
You dont joke about scum reads. You're scum, because you are trying to derail a lynch and not trying to bring up another canidate. Real townie would create a case and present a new option, but scum dont want to give away to much and wont do that. They'll try to plug an easy lurker after a derail.
You are wrong. A joke is fine when the game is just started and there is nothing.
You say scum dont want to give away much. Thats my main concern too, no one has to add anything to why they vote Matt, thats why i am trying to get ppl to talk about it.
The problem with joking is that when you say something and then go back and say "just kidding," people don't know if you're a scum trying to cover up a blunder, or a townie who really is joking. That's why "joke" posts really aren't a good idea, as they do nothing to scumhunt. And if you're town, it's a fast track to getting suspicion placed on you all game long...
Second:
On September 06 2012 03:54 Ottoxlol wrote: Toad, I asked about the vote on Matt and he told me a bunch of things but dodged the question for 8-9 times.
Those who started focusing on Gravan but ignored me.
Those who voted Matt with a one liner.
I asked for your top scumread, and this doesn't cut it. Blanket accusing everyone who focused on Gravan but not you, as well as those who made one-line cases for Mattchew is not constructive. Like why is it that those who focused on Gravan alone are suspicious? You've never discussed this at all, and it requires further explanation.
And if you're going to discuss Toad as a top scumread, then please take more than one line to elaborate on it.
I was not the only one joking in the first half an hour, grush, Hapa, Toad made jokes too.
So about Toad, he was active a lot but failed to make a case on why is he voting Matt. You can see our conversation in our filters,
This is why I ask the same question again and again to get scum answer too. You guys are blinded by scum talking bs in the thread.
Wtf. How is that:
On September 05 2012 00:45 Toadesstern wrote:
On September 05 2012 00:29 strongandbig wrote:
On September 04 2012 23:52 Maverick32x wrote: I voted for Matt due to the lying- but I would be curious to hear if he has a defense of some kind??
lol.
If matt was going to defend himself he would have said something by now other than "hey guys maybe I'm a VT trying to draw scum shots lol".
I've played a bunch of games with Mattchew recently and based on those, I think this is him as scum. For example, if I were going to fakeclaim miller as scum, I would do it very differently. However, you have to remember a couple things about Mattchew: - he's lazy as fuck as scum, except in themed games - he's pretty aggressive as town a lot of the time.
The example I was thinking about was from him in TL Mafia LV, where he and I were both town. He lied about taking a shot, and then when I suggested that it made no sense for him to take a scum shot and he might have been vigged, he attacked me like a moron for the rest of the game.
Unlike that, in this game his lie doesn't have any follow-up. If it was a planned-out pro-town lie, which I imagine is what he'll pretend it is, he would have been all over the first few people to attack him. Instead he just disappeared.
It seems much more likely that what he did was the same thing I did in deathnote - claimed miller without first asking the hosts whether millers are self-aware, and got caught for it. The difference is, I did it in a game with a closed setup.
##vote: mattchew
yeah Matt really is someone who's really in your face both as a townie and a mafia. He's incredible aggressive and / or borderline insulting if people don't think the same way he does.
As mafia he's telling people to shut up and that he doesn't need to explain his reads a bit because people are to retarded to understand it anyways when he knows he's right about something, e.g. when he's bussing a buddy, defending a townie to get towncred or geniunely meant something another way and people are misinterpreting what he said due to a type or something like that. As Town he does the same when he heavily think's he's right or when someone misunderstands him.
His calm and almost not existing involvement here defenitly is not what matt does when somethings "wrong" according to him. That either means he acknowledges that he screwed up as a town or that he acknowledges that he screwed up as a mafia and doesn't think it's going to help anymore. As already mentioned I don't see a reason at all for a town to fakeclaim like this and combine that with him "giving up" and you're good to go.
+
On September 04 2012 23:21 Toadesstern wrote:
On September 04 2012 22:55 Ottoxlol wrote: Why so many people jump to vote Matt?
Whatever is his alignment he fucked up. Does this makes him scum?
Matt thought Noisys are aware of themselves. He has some kind of role. This is all we know.
If he's blue he could have done it to protect himself from scum.
If a scum would fakeclaim I think he would discuss it with his team first and do you all think every scum missed this thing? I highly doubt it. If anything Matt is a blue or assa.
This just provides an easy wagon to jump onto and removes d1 discussion as a whole, no town benefit from that. Just because he did not play well it doesnt mean he's scum.
a blue doctor, jailkeep, Tracker, Watcher or Vigi however has no reason to be afraid. Maybe a Mad Hatter would be hard to explain but I'd doubt someone would want to fakeclaim as miller like that as a Mad Hatter.
Picture the situation you're in as a blue: We have trackers and Watchers. What happens is that at some time someone could say "Hey guys, Matt visited X at night Y". If he's a doctor, tracker or a watcher that's no problem at all because the target in question didn't die. We want to know who visited people who ended up being dead. If he's a doc there's actually a chance he ended up saving someone and that someone could even confirm that. If he is a tracker or a Watcher he is able to claim the results, something Mafia is not able to do. So a Doc, Tracker or a Watcher are all perfectly fine and there's no reason to fakeclaim like this.
A Jailer can somewhat confirm himself as well as the target he visited ended up being roleblocked every single night. It's only "somewhat" because a mafia RB is possible as well but after all if he's a Jailer he's again only going to visit people who ended up surviving the night.
A vig is somewhat tricky as it's an extremly easy fakeclaim for mafia to do but as long as you claim prior to the deadline everyone's going to be fine with that.
A Mad Hatter is, like a vigi somewhat tricky but as everything else you visited people. That in itself is not a reason to be suspicious of someone and the Mad Hatter is most likely going to visit people who ended up surviving as well unless either the Hatter decides to go after townish looking people for whatever reason or mafia decides to go after bad looking townies for whatever reason.
tl;dr: There's not a single scenario in which a fakeclaim as a blue makes sense. At least I can't think of one because you won't end up being tracked to a kill in pretty much all the cases. On top of that noone is going to be stupid enough to out someone who visited a guy who's still alive because that's basicly outing medics / tracker / watcher in most of the cases.
However there are a bunch of good reasons to fakeclaim this as mafia if you forgot that millers / NN are usually not self-aware in 90% of the games and just did it because he recently played a game with self-aware millers. I think Bang-Bang mafia was one of those for example.
So there's a shitton of explanations from a mafia point of view. The only possible explanation from a town point of view would probably be "reversed psychology" although you're making yourself a target doing so, which isn't what a blue wants to do either unless he's a Hatter d2 or later.
+
On September 05 2012 02:09 Toadesstern wrote:
On September 05 2012 02:01 Ottoxlol wrote:
On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote: People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time. If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen. That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense
My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely?
If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too. If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum)
Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss
Because there's no reason to fakeclaim as tracker. As a mafia you blend in as a townie.
not explaining why I'm voting Matt? Stop lying dude
Ottox has no idea what he is doing or he is scum.
I am trying to get ppl to talk about why they voted Matt. So far I got Toad as scum from that. What have you done mate?
BECAUSE HE SCUM SLIPPED. HOLY SHIT. YOU DONT GET IT DO YOU
No he did not. All we know he played bad and lied. Thats not a scumslip. Why are you writing in all caps? Is it because you know your argument is invalid?
On September 06 2012 07:03 Bill Murray wrote: Ottox you care to make a top 3 scumread like I have? sorry to say you need vigged, but it'd be better if you would stop posting, or actually.. you know... do some work by reading filters and making logical cases ...wow this looks like coaching. I see... I see... maybe I should ease up on my suspicion of Forumite.
Scum could easily just be playing the lurker game this game, but if that's the case, let 'em sit back while players like BC and Toad get confirmed.
Toad is scum. Hapahauli confirmed my suspicions by his last post, he's purposely trying to skew the discussion. I think these two are defending their mates by not letting the Matt discussion go on -> the other 2 possibly are lurkers who voted on Matt with no real content. imallinson Z-BosoN Shady Sands DarthPunk ShiaoPi BlackMamba24 goodkarma all voted Matt after Palmar's announcment and provide little to no reasoning. Bad town or scum can easily be among them
See I am not sure if anyone else caught this as I am still reading / catching up but no where in the OP does it tell me that I can see how many red's there are. As in town doesn't know how big the mafia team is.
By telling us that happa + toad are defending matt and the other two are lurkers means you KNOW THERE ARE 5.
So, I say we off you next.
If Palmar said the exact scum team numbers somewhere I have missed I apologize for my outburst and will find other people to hang.
For those who missed it the first time.
He clearly states happa + toad are trying to defend their "mates" or in this case "mate" by trying to drop the matt discussion. This is 3 reds. He then states the other 2 mafia are lurkers who voted with no real content then generically lists a bunch of lurkers and DrH who has been one of the most active players in the game.
But he told us 5. 2 defending 1 and then 2 in a group of lurkers. It wasn't I think there are two more or anything. he clearly outlines 2 defending their scumbuddy by shutting down conversation (lul as that wasnt the reason they argued with him) and 2 in lurkers.
Guy outright mislabeled one of the most active players calling him a "lurker" and outed the mafia team # as 5.
Burn him with fire.
Damn BC you're on a roll, though that slip isn't 100% confirmed mafia but adding that with the other bs he said definitely scum.
On September 07 2012 07:30 slOosh wrote: I'm guessing someone vigged Ottoxlol, mafia stacked KP one of BC or BM and then suicide bombed into the other hoping to catch some blue prots. Time to do a lot of re-reading.
Yea probably double stack on Black Mamba. Or 2 people got hit but one was saved by medic.
On September 07 2012 07:39 Forumite wrote: If Ottox would have been alive right now then I expect he´d allready have a few votes. Him dying saved us a day of discussion.
On September 06 2012 22:07 austinmcc wrote: Grush, if everyone in this game were a toaster, who would be the most energy-efficient? The quickest to make toast? The most likely to burn down a house?
If you're still around
Hmm, another fancy question. I'm assuming the first question is who provides the most information and least fluff. Second question fastest at making cases/scumhunting. Third the most chaotic/scummy. HMM
On September 07 2012 08:48 grush57 wrote: This is hard Town is REALLY active and good this game.
Wouldn't mind lynching him either.
first one: I agree, Ottox dead is good but I don't like the 2nd part. Why me? I'm your strongest townread? Or am I your most influential townread? The latter one would mean mafia agenda. second one: what did that post refer to? I'm not understanding what you're trying to say here and out of context saying "This is hard Town is REALLY active and good this game." sounds pretty contradictory. Like you're obviously happy that town is active and good this game (right?). If that's the case what's hard? Out of context it really sounds like you don't like town being active and good, neither does it sound like you're part of "town". So what's the meaning of that post?
Anyways, see you tomorrow.
You're the only vet left. I just used you as an example of a townie. Second part I can't pick who is the best right now, town is just great this game compared to other games, EX: PTP Pikachu, was the point I was making.
On September 04 2012 16:20 BroodKingEXE wrote: About Mattchew (who I think is town): Here's my breakdown of the situation : Matt's roleclaimed and given two reasons he claimed to avoid mislynch and/or draw a mafia shot. At first glance the roleclaim seemed like a great idea, but as I thought about it there were just too many holes. My initial thought was that it was a good idea and that could have been Matt's (based on the reasoning too). 1. Another problem I find with lynching him is that what he has done (roleclaim) isn't verifiable until he is lynched. Right now its a coinflip and I haven't seen anything else that suggests he is scum. 2. Fakeclaims aren't good basis for a lynch, they're not even able to be confirmed until the lynch, so I cant vote for him unless his posting sounds scummy.
1. - This bit is fine. Not wanting to lynch just to verify a roleclaim makes sense.
2. - This is where it crosses the line into scum territory. In the space of one sentence Mattchew has gone from a roleclaim to a fakeclaim. It could be construed that what he is saying here is that the belief that someone has fakeclaimed and lynching them to confirm it is not a good enough reason. However, that isn't what he actually said. He said, "Fakeclaims aren't a good basis for lynch". That makes the contradiction Hapa pointed out both plain and valid. I also don't like how Brood left himself a way out with "so I cant vote for him unless his posting sounds scummy".
On September 08 2012 05:10 BroodKingEXE wrote: About the Ottox thing, Ottox is a stubborn townie and people need to know that. If they don't he's going to be considered scummy for the wrong reason. I saw a lot of people piling on Ottox for a trait that he has as town (his ignorant stubborness), so I presented another thing I saw he wasn't doing (scumhunting) as a better reason.
It makes no sense to defend your top scumread. Who gives a crap if someone is backing you up for the wrong reason? You make note of that and use it against them later. You don't try and convince them to not pressure the person you think is scummiest. This looks like BS to me. Also, I'm surprised you cite his lack of scumhunting as the only valid reason because earlier you posted this, directed at Toad:
On September 05 2012 00:34 BroodKingEXE wrote: You can understand my fustration though right? Right now I see you as a player that's asking questions but not paying attention to the answers. Scummy in my book.
So for Toad it was scummy but for Ottox it was completely innocuous? It seems far more likely that you were caught hedging than having this explanation be true.
On September 04 2012 16:20 BroodKingEXE wrote: About Mattchew (who I think is town): Here's my breakdown of the situation : Matt's roleclaimed and given two reasons he claimed to avoid mislynch and/or draw a mafia shot. At first glance the roleclaim seemed like a great idea, but as I thought about it there were just too many holes. My initial thought was that it was a good idea and that could have been Matt's (based on the reasoning too). Another problem I find with lynching him is that what he has done (roleclaim) isn't verifiable until he is lynched. Right now its a coinflip and I haven't seen anything else that suggests he is scum. Fakeclaims aren't good basis for a lynch, they're not even able to be confirmed until the lynch, so I cant vote for him unless his posting sounds scummy.
BKE states that fake-claiming isn't enough to lynch Mattchew. Hell the entire post is wishy-washy for reasons I pointed out in the case earlier. It's a very scummy post overall, but the "fake-claiming" bit is the most important, because BKE turns around two pages later after the mod confirmation and does this:
On September 05 2012 00:12 BroodKingEXE wrote: Unvote ##Vote: Mattchew
Wow.
Mattchew hadn't posted anything in the interim to, as BKE put it, "sound scummy." BKE went from not wanting to lynch Mattchew for a fake-claim, and then when everyone jumped on Mattchew, treated the fake-claim like a huge scum-slip.
That's all you need to know really. It's indefensible.
He said that it wasn't enough to lynch because it wasn't confirmed.After Palmar confirmed him not knowing then he voted for him, like everyone else.
On September 08 2012 06:52 Toadesstern wrote: grush is mafia. BKE's probably; if BKE's not mafia it's probably foru?
But I had almost no time today as friends came over so I'll have to reread things tomorrow. Haven't even read what happened the last 4 hours so far except for an incredible fast read.
On September 08 2012 06:55 Maverick32x wrote: Ok, this probably will be my last post of the day, but I'm finally home and could read through BKE's filter properly. To be honest, I went into looking at BKE from a "Everyone is ganging up on him, and I don't think its deserved" perspective.
I don't think anyone said this, but this is the evidence that I'm considering as the most damning...
On September 04 2012 12:13 BroodKingEXE wrote: Actually, Mattchew why should they claim now? Can't they just wait till its pointed out?
Well okay, I know THIS has been brought up... but I just want to reiterate that this 'soft defending' makes me suspicious... not 100% scum.. just suspicious.
On September 04 2012 09:36 Toadesstern wrote: --snipped--
On September 04 2012 09:35 BroodKingEXE wrote: @Toad Im still confused about the vote on slOosh. You didn't agree with him for starting a useless discussion and that's grounds for keeping your vote on him?
There never was a vote on him to begin with lol
An honorary vote, and even so you never got anything out of it despite the six or so posts metioning him. Seemed more like some sort of a push, against slo0sh, than a minor disagreement.
This is just the last post on his slight attack on Toad. Which is significant to me beecaaauusse:
On September 06 2012 03:49 Z-BosoN wrote: @goodkarma Just because he is up on my suspicion bar does not mean that he is scum. He could very well be a bad townie. If he is, the only motivation he has for defending matt and attacking toad is that he actually thinks that toad is more suspicious than matt, and if so, he's doing a shitty job at explaining himself. Also, him being obnoxious doesn't contribute to his defense.
At least I am not that retarded to attack someone on the ground of their first post that was clearly a joke. I already explained my motivation two post ago. If you need some help understanding it you can ask for it nicely
You dont joke about scum reads. You're scum, because you are trying to derail a lynch and not trying to bring up another canidate. Real townie would create a case and present a new option, but scum dont want to give away to much and wont do that. They'll try to plug an easy lurker after a derail.
I really see this as putting the responsibility on someone else to make claims and to avoid doing it himself.... He just lights touched on a couple people, but clearly expected town to start lynching themselves.
So yea, I'm good with this lynch....AND the one thing I'm concerned about is that we are tunneling. And that concerns me.... still worried about the lurkers!!
Yea him attacking Toad is really suspicious, maybe to side with ottox because mafia basically knew he was gonna die. Imo that's more suspicious than the Matthew thing.
On September 08 2012 06:52 Toadesstern wrote: grush is mafia. BKE's probably; if BKE's not mafia it's probably foru?
But I had almost no time today as friends came over so I'll have to reread things tomorrow. Haven't even read what happened the last 4 hours so far except for an incredible fast read.
Sigh, STARSENSES PEOPLE. I realized it too, whenever I post like 5 times ina row it just completely shits up the thread. The lvdr thing was because when I was going to look at BKE's filter I saw lvdr and a bunch of other lurkers. I NEVER hard defended him I just pointed out a flaw in your case. When I was scum in LVI this scenario happened to BKE. However, BKE is the best candidate right now.
On September 09 2012 00:31 grush57 wrote: When I was scum in LVI this scenario happened to BKE. However, BKE is the best candidate right now.
Why?
Shady Sands is scum people. Doesn't hop on me till Toad makes a case, ASKS other people's opinion on it and ask if its good, and now he asks me why. WHY U SAY. BECASUE.......................................................................................................
On September 09 2012 01:59 DarthPunk wrote: I am not suspicious of grush because he acts like an idiot or because his posting is bad. I am suspicious because he defends BKE and then backs away from it. Sheeps his case whilst hinting that he will flip green. When BKE claims he is suddenly certain when the natural inclination would be to further doubt the case against BKE. He then trashes his vote onto shady for no reason whatsoever. Despite calling BKE the best case right now.
-Motive:
Gain town cred by questioning what he knows will be a mislynch.
When he claims blue push the lynch to avoid medic saves and a NK
I have no fucking clue why he voted for shady so I will leave it at that.
Because my post that explains it................................................................................................................................. His posts are asking other players to do things, SOMETHING SCUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
On September 09 2012 01:50 Gravan wrote: I still have reservations about this switch. According to what I can gather from this thread, Grush always acts like an idiot. This gets him mislynched often. We're lynching him, instead of BKE (who, until his meager roleclaim and sudden throwing out of cases) was under intense suspicion and getting wagon'd.
So far as I can tell, the logic goes roughly as follows:
BKE is very suspicious, but his blue claim isn't out of the question. Lynching a blue would be very detrimental to the town.
Grush is suspicious (alternatively idiotic and anti-town, depending on who is talking) and non-contributive besides. Lynching Grush is, at worse, a mislynch (we won't miss his discussions as a townie) and at best a mafia lynch.
This is all just a little sudden for me. What happened to those strong suspicions regarding BKE's earlier flip-flopping? Can one of you vote-switchers explain to me how that behaviour is now negated/lessened because of his role-claim?
On September 09 2012 02:04 BroodKingEXE wrote: Fuck I just broke a rule. T_T
@Grush I had that case against Shady b4 you. How is that sheeping?
IDK MAN IDK I GOTTA MAKE UP SHIT TO SAVE MYSELF
Yeah, after Chez in Normal Mini III, I've just about had it to here with these muthafuckin trolls in this muthafuckin game. Seriously town, he's relying on trolling to defend himself. What. The. Fuck?
See, he just sais stuff without even calling me scum, you see this dudes?
On September 09 2012 02:28 grush57 wrote: So BKE or Z Boson?
care to answer my question?
Sigh, I guess BKE is scum, fakeclaiming and just idk man. Plus if we lynch BKE and he flips scum we'll get a lot of info from pushing me the easy lynch. ##Unvote ##Vote: BroodKingExe
On September 09 2012 02:27 Hapahauli wrote: Thankfully things are getting active in here again, but I wanted to discuss the BKE fake-claim a bit.
I think all of us agree that the likely order of events last night consisted of double-stacking one person, while suicide bombing the other (between BC and DrH). BKE's watcher claim suggests that it was BC who got double-stacked and BM24 who got suicide-bombed.
Now unless something about the Day2 post suggests otherwise, this seems highly unlikely. BC was much more of a confirmed town (after outing Mattchew) than DrH was. To the average reader here, BC would seem like much more of a target for blue actions (watcher, medic, etc.) during the night. Isn't it much more likely for mafia to have suicide-bombed BC? There would be a much higher chance of blue's visiting BC after he caught the first mafia. I find it so unlikely that DrH was suicide bombed (over BC), and this is why I'm doubting the BKE claim.
This is irrelevant and not evidence. Regardless of your own opinion, mafia could have Bombed DrH and NK BC. It is possible. and thus BKE's claim is possible. Your preconceptions on what you would have done does not necessarily reflect what others did, and thus this in no way disproves BKE's claim.
On September 10 2012 07:44 Bill Murray wrote: I actually like Shady Sand's Hapahauli vote. If Hapahauli takes off, I will definitely join. I also found something from Sloosh that makes me not really care about him as much.
He died.................................. THEREFORE SOMEONE VIGGIED HIM AND YOU ARE MAFIA AND DIDNT REALIZE
On September 10 2012 07:58 Forumite wrote: I get the feeling that scum decided on those nightkills very close to the deadline, since Hapa and austinmcc dropped suspicions on BM, Toades and me right before dying.
About Toades case on me, I´ve been busy and haven´t been putting much effort into the game. Yes, I´m more cautious than my usual meta, which unfortunately puts me closer to how I behaved in Wheel of Fortune Mafia, my scumteam kept a low profile while town lynched eachother, this tactic worked well in that game. There´s not much more to say except that I have some serious rereading to do.
On September 10 2012 07:44 Bill Murray wrote: I actually like Shady Sand's Hapahauli vote. If Hapahauli takes off, I will definitely join. I also found something from Sloosh that makes me not really care about him as much.
He died.................................. THEREFORE SOMEONE VIGGIED HIM AND YOU ARE MAFIA AND DIDNT REALIZE
Is that actually a scumslip or is he just too lazy to read the day post?
Idk bm didn't respond so might actually be a scumslip.
The game that I played with Forumite and he flipped 3rd party he played much more townlike. Though that could of been an adjustment now. Anyways, it's our best bet. ##Vote: Forumite
On September 12 2012 07:13 Z-BosoN wrote: What a bad case, has so many wrong information on it, and much of it I've already gone over. Makes me HIGHLY suspicious of you for coming with it so late.
Following the BKE lynch, ZB's response was to point out how it was the veterans' fault because they wouldn't answer his question regarding whether or not there were likely to be multiple watchers.
Nope, wrong. I already explained this, not going over that again.
Keep in mind that Toad actually did address his question in this post.
missed this. big deal..
He also points out how he would have constantly repeated the question if he hadn't been forced to keep defending himself "unnecessarily". He points the finger at the remaining vets, says how townish he would have been had he been under less pressure to defend himself, and then martyrs himself by saying that he shouldn't have put up with the silly cases against him. All of this means absolutely nothing. His entire massive post seems like a waste of time to me, but it's clear that he's trying to turn it into townie points for himself.
I already said, I thought I was onto something at the time. Not going to repeat this, read my response to imallinson's case
Following the "vets are all suspicious now" paragraphs, he tells austinmcc to save his case against [him] for day 3, should [they] both live. He then elaborates on what he *would have thought* if austin's case *had come a little bit later.* Not only is he trying to completely stiffle a case being brought against him in order to pursue the illogical suspicions of all of the remaining vets, but, again, this entire section says nothing whatsoever. If this would have happened, then I would have found you scummy. Don't you think I could have found you scummy? But really, you're just thick.
I still stand by what I said. Wasting time discussing me at night would prove useless. Since the odds were high that one of the vets would die, we should just have tried to get as much input from them as possible. I gave my thoughts on why I thought this was a good choice, but you choose to ignore them.
Then there's his death post. Another post that I felt was unnecessary. He says that he thinks Hapa is town because Hapa thought he was town, and then points out how what Hapa said could just be a scumplay trying to gain townie points. I don't even know what we're supposed to have taken from that, but all it did for me was plant the idea of Hapa swindling town points out of our pockets using ZB's sterling reputation. It feels like he's subtly boosting his own towncred while calling Hapa's into question.
No. I said that hapa is almost surely townie UNLESS I die and he doesn't, and I explained why.
He then says that he didn't like Toad's good-bye post.
... Why are you writing a good-bye post if you don't like that someone else did it?
Yes, that's exactly what I said. I don't like good-bye posts. I didn't even say why I thought his good-bye post was scummy, and neither did hapa. We just don't like good-bye posts. What a dumb point.
He follows it up by saying that if Forumite flips red, then Toad *might* be confirmed town. He also points out how very good at bussing Toad is. Again, this entire paragraph tells us nothing.
As does this one. Actually, no, mine actually says that it didn't look like a bus, so if forumite was scum, toad would not likely have been scum.
Finally, we get to the "Lurkers" section, where he points fingers at everyone else in the game. He also repeats the fact that the scum vigi hasn't used his shots yet. First of all, he seems too certain of there being a scum vigi. He mentions it repeatedly.
I honestly thought there was guaranteed. Also, the first one to say this as an assumption was imallinson
On top of town not knowing if one exists, there's nothing we can gain from that reasoning. There's too much wifom involved. This is another case of ZB trying to follow a line of reasoning that doesn't help town (just like his irrational obsession with the number of watchers in the game) and only wastes time.
Wastes time in regards to what? Sheeping? I'm constantly trying to figure stuff out. I don't pause and think if I will look suspicious or not if I find something. I've made bad points and I've made good points.
On top of that, he calls for someone who hasn't even been a part of the game yet to be the top lynch candidate for D3. What were we supposed to discuss? How Lvdr didn't post and how I had to read 80 pages to get caught up? This part is a little OMGUS-y, but it's a ridiculous claim that can't be supported in any way. It casts dispersions on me when I haven't done anything. He was attempting to find scummy behaviour where there was none, and distract the town with it.
Again, I was assuming that mafia had a vig. I also said later that I was wrong for this
I apologize that this is appearing so late. I had to attend class and then ride the bus home. It takes forever <.<
##Vote Z-BosoN
I urge you to read everything instead of nitpicking things that could make me suspicious in your narrow little view. Half the stuff I've already explained. Don't bother me with shit cases please. You only show you are biased when making cases and can't read
He didn't vote the guy that flipped town so he is scum?
Actually I don't think a scum would act the way Z-Boson is playing. He is just playing extremely bad. You may say, grush stfu ur a stupid troll. Yes, but the point still stands.
On September 13 2012 05:19 Z-BosoN wrote: Guys, I will have to go soon, and won't be able to post through the night. However, I don't want to die tonight, because I'm starting to get some decent scum reads, so I'm actually gonna claim here.
I am a Mad Hatter
And I absolutely know Toad is scum. His goodbye post, claiming that he is townie in supposedly a "Good-bye" post. His disappearance in day 3. His switch from grush + gravan to me and BM out of nowhere. His reluctance to post in D3. His flimsiness on forumite. His bullshit straight above. I'm not gonna bother making a whole case on this, because there is one thing that makes me go from 80% scum to 100%. I'm not gonna go into details, but if you want you can find it out for yourselves. I did a SHITTON of reading on N1 and N2, reading as carefully as I possibly could, turning on my hidden message finder mode. It is insanely subtle, but fuck yea, I saw it. Anyways, hats off to you wrote it, but what I don't understand is why you didn't go after him, knowing what you knew. When both me and hapa were on his tail after that post, you could have very well given us support...
So yea, trust me when I say this, toad is absolutely 100% scum.
Anyways, I've always thought him scum ever since that N1 post, and my bomb has always been, and will be tonight as well, on him.
Thus, I am at no fear of death, because mafia wouldn't make this 1:1 trade, not in a million years.
Of course Toad is going to throw is bullshit at us once again, saying how I'm making this up, how that's impossible because he's townie, etc... but trust me when you say this - he's in fact bullshitting us, he's scum. If you want to confirm it for yourselves, just read the posts in N1/N2 super-carefully, and you'll see what I mean, especially in them nested quotes.
To the rest of you little lurking scum shitheads, I'll find you.
If you wanted him to die whyd u post that during night....
On September 14 2012 04:27 grush57 wrote: Nice find there sloosh. ##Vote: Maverick32x Also you guys don't get how BM plays.
Why you voting Mav, its already been acknowledged that the problem of this game are posts exactly like this one.
What do you think about slooshs find; Does it means SnB is scum or what
If you could explain how BM plays that would be nice.
The sloosh post I'm talking about is about Maverick. BM does one liners regardless and makes jokes in half his posts, just how he plays you guys aren't going to get anywhere calling that scummy
On September 14 2012 05:22 Shady Sands wrote: Gravan's above post is anti-town defensive play at its scummy worst. In addition to my prior charges against him, now I can say he's lying as well:
First off, he says I'm actively lurking. I'm not. Actively lurking would be posting heavily and having a 10 or 15 page filter without substance. I'm simply lurking. I even say it myself that my activity level is low.
Second, he says I started a bandwagon on him based on Forumite's green flip. That's an oversimplification. I started the wagon on Gravan because he piled onto Forumite when the case on Forumite was all but assured, using other people's analysis as his own reasoning, in an attempt to look contributory. The fact that Forumite flipped green is just icing on the cake. Grav's trying to twist the truth here; don't fall for it.
Third, the vig hit was called out because of my case on Gravan before the Day post came around. Gravan even quotes it in his post.
Again, don't fall for Grav's lies. I already called for a vig hit there with evidence, so why should I clutter up the thread and repeat what I wrote?
Fourth, of course I'm going to keep the heat on Gravan: he is the scummiest read I have, so shouldn't I be trying to get my top scumread lynched?
--
Now, onto his defense:
Grav posts a lot about how he shares a ton of characteristics with many other people. This is a non-defense. How does sharing a bunch of scummy characteristics with other people make you less likely to be a scum?
Then says that people who are voting for him specifically are voting because:
I think that the only reason the vote is primarily focused on me at the moment is because the bandwagon began earlier on me than it did on anyone else (started by the mafia, I have no doubt) and it is easy to point at my D1 post about Matt, as well as my general lurkiness.
Hang on a second: Grav wasn't the first wagon: the wagon on MMToss started at the same time as his did. (Another lie.) Second, the other reasons are all great reasons to vote for Grav specifically: The D1 post about Matt--soft defense of someone that was later a scum caught trying to fakeclaim. The active lurkiness--both of those reasons, if you believe them, should put Grav at the top of your list of scum reads.
And to those reasons which he himself admits to, we can also add the reason of lying.
Lynch Grav, the actively lurking, OMGUS-ing, lying, soft-defending, scum.
On September 14 2012 04:27 grush57 wrote: Nice find there sloosh. ##Vote: Maverick32x Also you guys don't get how BM plays.
Why you voting Mav, its already been acknowledged that the problem of this game are posts exactly like this one.
What do you think about slooshs find; Does it means SnB is scum or what
If you could explain how BM plays that would be nice.
The sloosh post I'm talking about is about Maverick. BM does one liners regardless and makes jokes in half his posts, just how he plays you guys aren't going to get anywhere calling that scummy
You still didn't answer the question. How does that make Mav scum?
Also, look at Grav, and tell me you don't see a scum.
Today is for Grav. Tomorrow is for MMToss or maybe Mav, once I finish reading his filter. I am not switching my vote to anyone but Grav, and I hope everyone here understands that and can show this scumbastard the noose.
I think both are scum, but I'm more sure of a red flip from Mav
On September 17 2012 17:18 ShiaoPi wrote: hey shady mind popping into the thread instead of blogging away? IF you are town (quite a huge stretch now imo) you should be here sharing reads and stuff or trying to convince us otherwise, right now you are like mattchew when his fakeclaim got snuffed out.
@Darthpunk: What are your thoughts right now?
Hi. I am just rereading it all again. But some things to note so far.
Shady looks extremely scummy from the last passage of play. He really Pushed for a mislynch on gravan even with better candidates who were even more guilty of similar things. (rewok) and the byplay during the previous nights play has really looked bad for him. I have played and obsed shady for 3 out of his 4 games and his meta has been 100% out from those games. Which included a scum game. One thing about that though is that I would absolutely expect shady to have been in the thread pushing a read or defending himself. Something which he has not really done at all recently. I think he is a good lynch candidate. For me it is weird because I had a town read on him this game. But I guess I was wrong.
On September 15 2012 08:06 Shady Sands wrote: [snip] I have a few other players who look scummy to me: Rewok ShiaoPi Mementoss DarthPunk
I'm going to be looking through their filters and will get something out before the daypost.
Final note: in case this isn't obvious already, S&B lynch should serve as strong town-tells for Sloosh and Hopeless1der.
This post where he thinks that everyone but him who voted for Gravan is scummy seems like a ploy to misdirect attention away from himself, especially after he pushed it so hard and pointedly asked for people to vote for him. He then finds no one on this list scummy and pushes on BM.
Further. I am concerned about the Following players.
BM
Rewok
Grush
I think scum could easily be hiding in the midst of those three. I had a town read on BM amazingly (this was mainly due to the consistent assurances of the vets that he was probably town.) but reading through. The 2 people who made these claims flipped 3rd party and as toad said. THEY HAD A VESTED INTEREST IN DERAILING TOWN as we were so far ahead after the mattchew lynch and gk flip.
So BM is worrying due to his playstyle being unreadable and all the assurances about him were from non town.
Rewok is hard lurking and only makes one post for his vote. and then sheeps the popular choice.
Grush is trolling or doesn't give a shit.
All these players are a liability during LYLO. I still feel BM is townie just due to the fact that he seems to actually give a shit about town.
The other two clearly do not give a shit about town. And that makes me fucking nervous.
I have a strong town read on Kreb. He is playing really well and is actively pro town. Especially as a replacement.
Also I don;t think this has been posted so I got it together quickly. (if it has I apologise)
Yeah Kreb is prolly scum. He gave me that vibe the whole game and he won't make a hard stance on anyone. He is just pointing things out on the easy lynch. T_T
On September 18 2012 09:26 Kreb wrote: Worth noting on Grush too: Hes called lots of people scummy, but the following three posts were the only three I could find where he was (very very soft) defending people.
On September 08 2012 06:39 grush57 wrote: Not hard defending him, I'm just pointing out things in your case. He isn't 100% scum, but if it comes down to it I'll probably vote for him.
On September 14 2012 04:27 grush57 wrote: Nice find there sloosh. ##Vote: Maverick32x Also you guys don't get how BM plays.
These are the only times he attempted to defend someone. One flipped green, but he also expressed that he'd be willing to vote for him. One flipped red. The third is still in the game (and Im very suspicious of).
I like how no one realized I wasn't defending him. Sigh. Though I guess I did indirectly. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
On September 19 2012 03:28 imallinson wrote: I've been real busy with uni work which is why I've been a bit absent recently. I don't understand Shiao's reads. I don't see how the two last people to join the lynch on SnB are scum. If we were why the hell would we bus our team mate when the vote was 6 on Gravan and 4 on SnB. We could have easily just left it as it was and got a mislynch. Kreb's reads seem much more plausible as both BM and Grush have seemed really anti town all game and could see one or both of them being scum.
On September 19 2012 01:17 ShiaoPi wrote: First off sorry for being absent until now, I just had a really busy day and just got to catching up with the thread....
Looks like I should have let paranoia get the best of me >_> gg shady, screw your busy schedule :D
I am going to give out all my reads, because I am most likely dead after the night. We have these players left grush BM Darthpunk imallinson hopeless kreb ShiaoPi (yeah I am confirmed to myself )
Let's take a closer look: First off we got the trolly unreadable duo of Grush/BM: I have played several games with grush but I still have no fucking clue how to read him, had him once as townie once as scum and was both times wrong.... Considering BM I also do not have a clue, although he does not read really properly he still seems to kind of give a shit, so yep null on him too >_> They could both be very well scum but there is nothing definite....
Next up, DarthPunk: He is most probably town, his willingness to stay up late (I feel for you too my timezone-plagued brethren), eagerness to discuss things and the general feel he gives out of his posts, what bothers me a bit is the lack of activity lately but I am willing to give him the BOTD in regards to his private life etc.. Another kind of worrying thing is how he buddied up to me after I claimed, also he has been on easy targets (ottox, Gravan, rewok) and his recent attempts to get Kreb lynched do not sit well with me, but generally said I see a low probability of him being scum, if he is indeed red, then congratulations, you fooled me.
Imallinson: He could very well be scum. I am having a null read leaning scum on him at the moment. First off, noticed something? Yeah he completely vanished after dropping the vote on shady, never posted since then again. Also as I checked through his filter, there is not much of meaningful contribution, the only "case" he did was on Gravan who flipped green. He has also generally been a non-factor in this game, flying perfectly under the radar as people focused on other "lurkers" instead of pursuing him. The only thing which keeps me back from having a clear scumread on him is the fact that he slightly bussed mattchew, although that is kind of a weak indicator seeing how his whole fakeclaim played out and that he was on the giant switch onto SnB. What is notable though on his vote on SnB is that he did not hammer him, so it could have been a bus anyway.
Hopeless: Hopeless is ridiculously similar to Imallinson. He is also a non-factor in this game so far (besides the SnB lynch, more on that later). Take a look at his filter, its short anyway. He starts off with a soft defense of Mattchew, while accusing Forumite at the same time. After palmar pretty much kills matt he jumps on the wagon like everybody else. He then gets targeted N1 and defends himself extensively, but continues to go after Forumite. Come D2 though he apparently "forgets" about Forumite and joins the bandwagon on BKE. As soon as Forumite is back on the chopping block he tunnels him to no end, continuously pushing him. He then proceeds to sheep SnB's case on mav before switching it up 3 minutes to deadline without any comment on why or how he came to the conclusion that the person he sheeped was scum in the end. This looks like an incredibly easy bus to me. He had been a non-factor this game so far, occasionaly being thrown into shit as part of the lurker brigade but then he hammers a scum in a last minute switch, easy as pie to get town cred until the end of the game. He is actually my strongest read at the moment, so please please lynch him! Also look at the rest of his posts, there is like ZERO content besides the case on Forumite. Hopeless cruised by until now (he has been gone from the thread just as imallinson), time to poke him until he dies.
Kreb: He replaced in for Milton who had been lurking pretty hard. Even as replacement he got a bigger filter than hopeless and I have a townread on him. His actions so far seemed pretty townie to me, he has been contributive, sharing his reads and thoughts and been an active part of town so far. The effort he put into pressuring toad is also remarkable, just compare his filter with hopeless' and imallinsons its ridiculous how a replacement is that much more of a factor in the game than two people from the very beginning.
Summary:
Look at my list, I want to lynch into one of these two Imallinson, Hopeless1der, priority on Hopeless1der since I am much more certain on him. Also I'll be tracking one of those two, have fun wifoming Mafia, if you let me survive.
On September 23 2012 04:16 Bill Murray wrote: Grush, if you are a thermo-nuclear-device, such as a thermodetonator, and you were in the hands of bobafett on night 2 What is the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote: I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
this looks pretty damning to darthpunk kind of funny.. mattchew is the alpha and omega to the fall of the scumteam? him saying me and grush are both policy lynches... in his first post... where he slips? perhaps he is planting a seed to snag me, but this looks reaaaallllyyy bad on you DP
Doesn't that mean it is more likely for you to be scum?
My bomb was on bm because I thought he was scum, he was crazy. I thought DP was just a reaaaally bad noobie townie. Maybe if he wasnt new I would of put bomb on him/ voted for him.