EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXIII - Page 15
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iamperfection
United States9640 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On August 07 2012 12:40 iamperfection wrote: 1) no. My thinking was this hypothetically harry flips town then boom someone can attack you with meta from the last game thats why i think you could be worried about that. 2) i dont like the way he plays i think ive made that quite clear. Did i have an agenda to get him out of the game yes thats the truth. You dont have to like it. its not nice. its not even fair but i think the longer yourharry is in the game he does more damage than good. You dont have to agree with that but im just stating my thinking behind why i wanted him lynched. 3)Synyster has five posts. Its hard to say he is "scum" cause there isnt much to go on. I think he might be somewhat fearful in posting. His accusations seem to focus on productivity which is wierd because he is very unproductive himself. If forced to guess i would say awful town. #1: That doesn't make sense. If Harry flipped town (after a hypothetical lynch), how would I look bad for defending him? What does this even have to do with be being scared of my XXI meta? Is this our only reasoning for why I would be scared of my meta? #2: Well if you're going to take such a strong stance from the beginning of the game, that's anti-town behavior. Don't be surprised that the town gets on your case if you pre-determined to lynch someone before they posted. Hell, I've looked through your meta in XXI and I don't understand why you're so angry at Harry. It's not like you didn't get along with him in XXI, and you never got mad at him for his play in that game. Hell you even DEFENDED YourHarry in that game based on his "bad play". http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351398¤tpage=42#829 On July 21 2012 01:18 iamperfection wrote: i might regret this but The one thing i dont like about it is that he tries to cast suspicion on you. In my view looking at it you are basically mod confirmed townie in my view now. The only other possibilty is their would have to be a roleblocker on the scum team. However, combined with your ability to play the role of aggresive townie and the actual circumstance of the bread crumb i highly doubt your lying and combined with probulous basically confirming that their is a role block role i think its safe to assume your town. What i dont like about is why would the scum team continue to rally against you. It seems kind of silly to me to try and waste effort to try and cast doubt on you. Maybe im giving the scum team to much credit but in my view thier efforts are better spent else where. So basically harrys accusation are so dumb in my view that he might be town because the scum team as whole i would think would recognize it would be a lost cause to go against you. #3: What's your reasoning for Synyster being awful town vs. scummy? ShadySands does a pretty good job outlining why Synyster's posts are pretty scummy - what about his post do you not agree with? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=13#251 | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
Alright, so I've been looking through the filters and something struck me as odd. Promethelax has become a pretty frequent poster, but if you look at what he's actually contributed, it's pretty limited. He spends much of his time talking about meta and previous games, even though the conclusions he draws from them don't actually say much. + Show Spoiler + On August 07 2012 03:00 Promethelax wrote: okay that is what I thought. You are completely ass backwards on this one. XIX and XXI the most active mafia in both of those were Goon, not GF. I do not feel that the role someone gets should effect their play. Most players have a general meta and they play to it whether blue, green or red. (Some have specific metas to each alignment). i.e. If I were to role a blue I would have said the same things I have said although I am in fact a VT. Also the goal of being a really pro-town player as scum is to never get a dt check on you, be so clearly town that checking you would be a waste of a night check. He says that a sound strategy the mafia might be employing is "completely ass backwards" because it didn't occur in two previous games, and then he carries on with more meta knowledge. + Show Spoiler + On August 07 2012 02:31 Promethelax wrote: I'd like to bring attention to this post: it is neither a scum or a town tell but if you promise to make reads you had better do it. Golbat I want to hear what you think about people and I will be happy to vote you if you do not provide these cases, I know irl things can get in the way so I don't expect them at this moment but I do expect them within this day. goodluck on your tuition moneys. So harry, though I think your play seems scummy I am going to base my read off of your meta, prove me right and play a pro-townrole here. 1. True! 2. Did you read that game? I had town by the nose by virtue of not lurking. 3. No! Bad YourHarry, lynching a townie is always bad. Lynching a bad townie hurts town because we lose a townie. He mentions many actions that are considered pro-town, gives advice for appearing pro-town, and states as a strength "posting in an active and pro-town manner." When not giving meta advice, his posts are filled with instructions for how to be a good townie. This isn't an issue on its own, but he then avoids contributing to the discussion, either simply agreeing/disagreeing with people or telling them he'll look into it. His only case is one against Golbat based on something he admits is not a scum tell. He votes for Golbat despite stating that he feels that YH's play is scummy, and this is after he states that it's bad to lynch townies no matter what. His greatest focus seems to be his assurance that YH is innocent despite using what he admits is a confusing, scummy playstyle. He says that this is consistent with YH's town playstyle, so it is unlikely that he is scum. Again, he is basing his reasoning on meta knowledge. Furthermore, his conclusion is in direct conflict with some of the other meta knowledge he provided: that people tend to behave similarly no matter their role(first spoiler). You can't claim that players' actions are generally uniform across all roles and then claim that someone's actions denote him as a member of a certain faction. In short, I see many contradictions within Prom's posts, and little contribution despite appearing to contribute heavily. He is posting frequently without giving away any information, which is a scum trait. This leads me to believe that he is scum. ##FoS: Promethelax | ||
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YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
In the course of less than a day, it is interesting to note that I went from the most obvious scum reads to town reads. I think we agree that it is scums are inherently motivated to jump on the easy target, that I was. People who were on my initial badnwagon were: iamperfection, mkfuba, lvdr, and dandel ion. I also think that scums are likely to quickly jump off the wagon once it becomes apparent that the wagon is not going anywhere. In this respect, iamperfection has been steady in his suspicion of me, even amidst of counter accusations from Hapha and others because his willingness to lynch me day 1. (Though, it could be argued that he didn't have much choice because suddenly changing his stance may make him suspicious). The most interesting thing during this "Harry is scum" to "Harry town development" was Lvdr's quick change of stance against me. While iamperfection was under heavy attacks from multiple players, Lvdr avoided much attention. Instead, Lvdr witnessed much dismay fall onto iamperfection's for trying to lynch me for being a "bad" player. I guess this must have intimidated Lvdr, because his stance suddenly changed from reading me as scummy to town. If you remember, even when Lvdr was initially attacking me, my meta reads based on my last game - that I play incoherently as town - was already available to Lvdr (via Hapha). What I find more amusing is the fact that Lvdr says two contradictory things in the span of two posts (15 minutes) regarding his reads on me: For the record, YH and golbat are likely townie reads in my opinion. Golbat is average suspicion, and YH is inscrutable. In summary, Lvdr's initial jumping on the YH bandwagon and his sudden change in his stance against me, when the meta information was already available at the time of his initial suspicion, makes him scummy. His lack of consistency in the recent posts, without much reasoning, also makes him a likely scum candidate flailing under pressure when Hapha and iamperfection had asked him to explain his reads. ##Unvote ##Vote Lvdr | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
However, we need to narrow down the number of suspicions we take to the lynch deadline atleast 5-6 hours before the lynch deadline. Too many suspicions floating around makes it incredibly hard to secure a majority lynch. Also, it's important not to simply post suspicions - we need to post why we think a person is more suspicious than other players. If you intend on holding your suspicions/votes on Promethelax/Lvdr, I expect you to say why they are more suspicious than the standing cases on iamperfection and Synystyr. My thoughts on the two cases above are coming within the hour. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Lvdr seems like bad-townie more than scum-motive. He's been very responsive (almost instantly if you look at timestamps) to my questions, and has generally maintained an active presence. I view his "inconsistency" as townie as well - he's flip-flopped a lot this game and has made no effort to hide his thoughts. I think mafia would be more careful than that. Secondly, his filter reads exactly like a townie would think! He's never too sure of himself, and he acknowledges new suspicions with new information. I'm not a fan of his play (one-liners, summary posting, etc), but he is active, and it reads as bad-townie to me. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
I'll be honest - I just don't have enough information to cast significant suspicion against Promethelax. I consider the meta-stuff as null tells. I consider his view on YourHarry a null-tell as well, and I give him some townie points for being willing to flip-flop on his views. I'd expect mafia to tunnel YourHarry more (hence my suspicions against iamperfection). I also don't follow your logic here: He mentions many actions that are considered pro-town, gives advice for appearing pro-town, and states as a strength "posting in an active and pro-town manner." When not giving meta advice, his posts are filled with instructions for how to be a good townie. This isn't an issue on its own, but he then avoids contributing to the discussion, either simply agreeing/disagreeing with people or telling them he'll look into it. His only case is one against Golbat based on something he admits is not a scum tell. He votes for Golbat despite stating that he feels that YH's play is scummy, and this is after he states that it's bad to lynch townies no matter what. I think you twist his motives here. By the time he votes for Golbat, he's pretty up-front about how he thinks YH is town. Also, his statement about "it's bad to lynch townies" has no contradictions with his vote against Golbat, who he believes is exhibiting "anti-town behavior" by virtue of Golbat's promised (yet missing at that point in time) case. | ||
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Lvdr
United States418 Posts
My initial suspicion of YH has been almost universally shared. However, given the meta-game information that has come out and his prominence, YH seems more incompetent than sinister. My generally widespread suspicion has been in order to elicit as much discussion as possible. | ||
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Lvdr
United States418 Posts
Since Synyster and YourHarry are taken, I will make a case for Golbat Golbat has made a number of fluff posts, with the only real material coming when he attacked my confusion about his role in the last game he played. The cases he claimed to be forming are not in evidence (yet). As it stands, Golbat might be a semi-lurker mafia. However, Synyster remains my top suspect. Like most players so far, Golbat hasn't done much to seem solidly town. Doesn't mean he's scum. Golbat's main contribution has been noticing my early flub. That points to an being an active townie or a mafia jumping on an early mistake. Worth watching but not explicitly a suspect. For the record. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
I was really confused when you mentioned Promethelax's thoughts on Golbat's "anti-town behaviour", so I went back through his filter again. You're absolutely right, and I'm not sure how I missed the majority of that post. + Show Spoiler + On August 07 2012 10:01 Promethelax wrote: Though Harry has played so far with his pants squarely atop his head I feel that this is totally in line with his town meta, essentially I find his posting scummy and will be watching him but am hesitant to vote into him because his play is simply bad and, as any coach will tell you, bad play is a dumb-tell not a scum tell. The player I have the most concern with right now is Golbat, as I said earlier making a promise and not following through is an anti-town behavior. Not simply bad play but anti-town. This allows for a player to get off the hook of suspicion because they have promised to do work to help town but also keeps them from having to put their reads into the thread which allows a scum player to stay neutral about people until they can let a townie make the case. Until he posts his 'cases' my ##Vote will be on Golbat In my skimming I must have filled in the second paragraph with the information from his previous post where he said that it was "neither a scum or a town tell." At that point I was feeling so clever that I'd discovered this "brilliant new case" that I didn't take the time to make sure I had the facts straight. Confirmation biases abound! Sorry for misrepresenting you Prom. I'll also have to keep in mind that just because something can be considered scummy behaviour doesn't mean that it is. That being said, I would like to see Prom's thoughts more when he responds to other peoples' posts. It feels to me like you are trying to encourage discussion, but are letting others do the talking for the most part. When I finally read it, your reasoning for Golbat was great, and I'd like to read more. I have a quick question: In general is it better to spoiler quotes or leave them visible? I've seen both, so I'm not sure of the protocol. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
Promo: YourHarry: iamperfection Golbat: Promethelax Synystyr: Shady Sands iamperfection: Sideni Lydr: YourHarry Remember that with 12 people alive it takes #/2 rounded up = 6 votes to lynch someone and remember that you have to vote. TolEranceNA gets an official warning for not playing this game. He's going to get modkilled (and replaced if possible) if he keeps this up. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On August 07 2012 14:11 Hapahauli wrote: Regarding the case on Promethelax (by mkfuba07) I'll be honest - I just don't have enough information to cast significant suspicion against Promethelax. I consider the meta-stuff as null tells. I consider his view on YourHarry a null-tell as well, and I give him some townie points for being willing to flip-flop on his views. I'd expect mafia to tunnel YourHarry more (hence my suspicions against iamperfection). I also don't follow your logic here: I think you twist his motives here. By the time he votes for Golbat, he's pretty up-front about how he thinks YH is town. Also, his statement about "it's bad to lynch townies" has no contradictions with his vote against Golbat, who he believes is exhibiting "anti-town behavior" by virtue of Golbat's promised (yet missing at that point in time) case. I was writing up a response to Mfua but this sums it up pretty well, the things he said about me are dead wrong. On August 07 2012 16:08 mkfuba07 wrote: Hapahauli I was really confused when you mentioned Promethelax's thoughts on Golbat's "anti-town behaviour", so I went back through his filter again. You're absolutely right, and I'm not sure how I missed the majority of that post. + Show Spoiler + On August 07 2012 10:01 Promethelax wrote: Though Harry has played so far with his pants squarely atop his head I feel that this is totally in line with his town meta, essentially I find his posting scummy and will be watching him but am hesitant to vote into him because his play is simply bad and, as any coach will tell you, bad play is a dumb-tell not a scum tell. The player I have the most concern with right now is Golbat, as I said earlier making a promise and not following through is an anti-town behavior. Not simply bad play but anti-town. This allows for a player to get off the hook of suspicion because they have promised to do work to help town but also keeps them from having to put their reads into the thread which allows a scum player to stay neutral about people until they can let a townie make the case. Until he posts his 'cases' my ##Vote will be on Golbat In my skimming I must have filled in the second paragraph with the information from his previous post where he said that it was "neither a scum or a town tell." At that point I was feeling so clever that I'd discovered this "brilliant new case" that I didn't take the time to make sure I had the facts straight. Confirmation biases abound! Sorry for misrepresenting you Prom. I'll also have to keep in mind that just because something can be considered scummy behaviour doesn't mean that it is. That being said, I would like to see Prom's thoughts more when he responds to other peoples' posts. It feels to me like you are trying to encourage discussion, but are letting others do the talking for the most part. When I finally read it, your reasoning for Golbat was great, and I'd like to read more. I have a quick question: In general is it better to spoiler quotes or leave them visible? I've seen both, so I'm not sure of the protocol. I'm glad to see that you have seen the light. I generally leave them, some people spoiler them. Personal preference. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- iamperfection is playing in a different way than he played as scum, in XIX where we were scum together he was very lurky and in general refused to stick his neck out. Since he has decided to be more open this game and put himself out there I would prefer to wait in his lynch I don't feel that he should be the target of this lynch, if his behaviour changes drastically in the later game we will have more information on him. I am still very concerned about Golbat, he has given himself three excuses for not having the cases he promised: first: On August 07 2012 06:37 Golbat wrote: Hey guys, just got back. In the process of writing my cases. I'm thinking i'm only going to do two for now, cause i'm at a friend's house and I don't want to be in the corner playing mafia all night. at about the time he promised us the cases. Second: On August 07 2012 08:38 Golbat wrote: Sorry, my friend decided to make me play quake with him, so the cases are now forthcoming. two hours later third: On August 07 2012 11:34 Golbat wrote: Drunk. If I attempted it, it would not be pretty. Syn is the person i'm looking at the most, so I don't see a need to push it out right now. I may have gotten a bit ahead of myself with 2-3 cases in 8 hours so early in the game. it'll get here when it gets here. about three hours later. And the one case he did post was on a guy who was already under suspicion. His actions lead me to believe that he is in fact a scummy player trying to get out of posting promised cases because he does not want to be forced into a position of having strong reads at the beginning of the game as such he will retain my vote. | ||
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Lvdr
United States418 Posts
Just in case though ##VoteSynyster | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On August 07 2012 10:11 YourHarry wrote: That's how I play. When I make a read, I post it. Sometimes I ask others to guess the reasons behind my vote. And sometimes, reasons behind my suspicions can seem trivial, especially in the beginning of the day. And as Hapha pointed out, I throw in different theories out there and see what people think of them and which one sticks. And they do a good job generating plenty of discussions early in the day. To be fair though, the second link referenced by "Just to jump onto somebody else right after" was actually me fixing my previous post regarding my suspicion on mkfuba. I guess that means you didn't read my original "messed" up post, because the contents were identical. And it seems that iamperfection seems to be blaming me for us losing the XXI game. I admit that I did not have a very good track record in voting or even in my reads that game. Though, I did suspect that calgar that game was town, which basically got ignored, understandably. I got some coaching though, and I think I am improving. You may disagree, but let's see how I do this game. I have a confidence in myself this game. Just trust me  Shit, sorry. I messed up there, forgot that you posted the fixed post too, later. Well, it still underlines that you should fix posts instantly instead of a page later. See the confusion? Massive confusion in my brain. Also, there is a reason why I didn't vote you (yet), but I do want you to know that I am watching you. Will read the rest of the thread closely now, and probably have to say a word or two. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On August 07 2012 15:04 Lvdr wrote: I didn't flip-flop on golbat, I wrote the case because the more obvious ones were taken. At the end of the case I actually point my FOS at synyster. My initial suspicion of YH has been almost universally shared. However, given the meta-game information that has come out and his prominence, YH seems more incompetent than sinister. My generally widespread suspicion has been in order to elicit as much discussion as possible. This struck me as odd in the first place: Why would you forgo posting additional reads just because the good ones are "taken"? Did you have nothing else to add? Then why would you even consider a case you YourHarry? I know I'm the guy that made the YourHarry "case" (I don't even consider what I wrote a case, I just said he was playing scummy/confusing. And a large portion of that was that I misread his filter, which was a moronic mistake on my part - see my previous post), but really, that one wasn't even strong enough to convince MYSELF to vote for him. So I am curious what your case would have been. To me, it seems weird to not post additional reads on a case, if you have them. Did you want to avoid looking like a bandwagoner? Why? That only makes you look like you're scared of getting lynched. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
##Vote Synystyr If you want me to unvote you, post your reads. Your top scum reads, town reads, book reads, EVERYTHING. So far you have not taken a stance on anything out of your own ambition, you just answered me when I directly asked you about Golbat. So since it seems like we have to drag things out of you by force, I will try to do just that. I am yet undecided if I consider you scum or not, but if you don't show even a hint of initiative, I will make my stance clear. | ||
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Golbat
United States499 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
I defended Promethelax earlier on this page on the basis that I didn't have enough information to make a read on him. Now I do - Promethelax has NOT been scumhunting! On this basis, I believe he is mafia. My case is based on the following three observations: 1) Inconsistent attitude towards YourHarry 2) Voting Golbat for scum-mentality reasons 3) Fluff Posting (meta/town-advice/etc) Prom's attitude towards YourHarry Promethelax has had a very inconsistent attitude towards YourHarry (YH). He is one of the first to FOS YH on the basis of his anti-town play. Despite his FOS, he calls YH's play erratic, talking a lot about his play while being indecisive: ... YH was town in XXI and played as inexplicably as he is playing here. He voted for three people on D1 and unvoted one of them about a million times (rereading his filter I can't tell how many were because he wrote them wrong and how many were because he changed his mind). All three of his targets were town. not going to lie, I laughed. But this is a waste of time and space. How do you feel about him and his play? Is Harry town, null or scum in your eyes and why? Promethelax is very concerned with YourHarry, but never really makes an effort to make a case, or even pressure YH. This is because he's not scumhunting. Things get very strange in his next few posts. First, he lightly defends YourHarry by questioning Dandel Ion's case against him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=11#203 Read his (ed note: YourHarry's) posts and look for the motivation in them, is it scum or town? As scum why would he do what he has done? as town why would he do it. Actions speak louder than meta. The above quote would imply that he doesn't find YH's posts scummy since he's attacking Dandel Ion's suspicions, yet in Prom's next post... Though Harry has played so far with his pants squarely atop his head I feel that this is totally in line with his town meta, essentially I find his posting scummy and will be watching him but am hesitant to vote into him because his play is simply bad and, as any coach will tell you, bad play is a dumb-tell not a scum tell. Again, he show's hesitancy and contradicts his thoughts above. Note how he calls Harry's posting scummy, yet hasn't contributed any analysis towards why. However, I find this post the most scummy: If more people want to bring up Harry's bad play as scummy they will have to go through me. I am, here and now, hard defending his bad play. It is bad. Not scummy. The one thing that makes him look scummy to me was his first refusal to re-post his post after screwing up the formatting. Since than he has been playing in a pro-town way and I expect him to continue to improve. All of a sudden, Promethelax has no doubts about YourHarry. Despite his hesitancy above, he's convinced that Harry's play is bad-townie. This is a complete 180 from his previous quotes, where he believes Harry's posts are indeed scummy, but are in line with his previous townie meta. Promethelax is TOO convinced YH is town - only scum would know that. Prom's Cases against Golbat After getting of the YH case, Prom moves on to Golbat. After some light suspicion about Golbat, he puts on his vote: On August 07 2012 10:01 Promethelax wrote: Though Harry has played so far with his pants squarely atop his head I feel that this is totally in line with his town meta, essentially I find his posting scummy and will be watching him but am hesitant to vote into him because his play is simply bad and, as any coach will tell you, bad play is a dumb-tell not a scum tell. The player I have the most concern with right now is Golbat, as I said earlier making a promise and not following through is an anti-town behavior. Not simply bad play but anti-town. This allows for a player to get off the hook of suspicion because they have promised to do work to help town but also keeps them from having to put their reads into the thread which allows a scum player to stay neutral about people until they can let a townie make the case. Until he posts his 'cases' my ##Vote will be on Golbat Note the language here - he votes Golbat for being "anti-town." He doesn't accuse Golbat of being mafia, nor something like the "scummiest player." Just "anti-town". He also gives a possible motive for Golbat's play, but never accuses Golbat of being mafia! This may seem innocuous, but check out the next quote: Context: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=15#292 ... And the one case he did post was on a guy who was already under suspicion. His actions lead me to believe that he is in fact a scummy player trying to get out of posting promised cases because he does not want to be forced into a position of having strong reads at the beginning of the game as such he will retain my vote. See a pattern here? Again, voting someone because they're a "scummy player" - NOT because he thinks Golbat is Mafia. This is Mafia motive! Mafia want to get "scummy players" lynched, and not actual scum. Prom's Fluff Posting Prom's Filter (starts on Page 2, because Page 1 is all pre-game stuff): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874&user=251061¤tpage=2 Prom really hasn't posted that much. On top of this, he's been much more concerned with talking about meta and giving town-advice rather than scum-hunting. While I consider this a null-tell alone, combined with the above evidence, it paints the picture of a mafia avoiding posting actual analysis. Based on the three points above, Promethelax is my strongest scum read. He's shown mafia-mentality in his case against Golbat, and he's just TOO sure that YourHarry is townie. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
My top pick at the moment is iamperfection. On top of what others have stated, I have one thing to add. To iamperfection: If you came into this game knowing what you do about YourHarry's behaviour, and you had the intention to lynch him if he behaved the same way again, then why would you wait until after you receive your role to state that? You admit that you will vote for him based on this reasoning despite the fact that there is far more evidence in game for other players. Your defense seems like an afterthought, using his meta as a means of implicating him despite a lack of in game evidence. You tell him that you'll be suspicious if he posts the way he always posts, and then when he does it you say he's should be lynched. This tactic doesn't even require a slip on YH's part, it simply requires him to behave like himself. While I'm not sure that his methods are the best, and I was quite suspicious of him early game, he does seem to have generated a lot of discussion, which is certainly a pro-town action, and has drawn a lot of attention to himself. My second pick is Golbat. In addition to Prom's case, I have some questions. Drunk. If I attempted it, it would not be pretty. Syn is the person i'm looking at the most, so I don't see a need to push it out right now. I may have gotten a bit ahead of myself with 2-3 cases in 8 hours so early in the game. it'll get here when it gets here. I'd like some clarification on most of what you've said here. When you say you've gotten ahead of yourself, do you mean that you didn't actually have cases against that many people? If so, why did you say you did? Or have you changed your mind regarding your suspicions? I feel that after almost a full day we at least need to see your previous suspicions and why you no longer feel that way, or you have just been pulling us along. And tautology aside, 24 hours is more than enough time to have at least stated your cases and given a few of your reads, especially when you said you'd provide them (probably) in 8. Third on my list is Synystyr. While the later reads on him seem valid to me, I think the one that started the case against him was an overreaction (that syn was trying to imply that Hapahauli was suspicious). It was an extremely difficult post for me to understand to begin with, and I see the rest of his posts as attempts to both clear the suspicion from him as well as begin some (admittedly poorly thought out) reads to begin discussion. It may be because I did the exact same thing (defended myself against YH's vote, and proceeded to make a poorly considered case against Prom), but at the moment I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I think Dandel lon's demand that he post well thought out reads on players he finds most suspicious is a good idea, and will definitely sway my vote. My suspicion is there, but I don't think there's enough to go by to place him higher on my list. Finally, my last read is on Lvdr. On this I feel like there's little to say other than I agree with Hapahauli's analysis. Lvdr has been the second most active poster (by rough estimation on my part) and has provided some really good insight (pointing out that Syn used fluff to apologize for fluff, and his addition to Shady's case against Syn struck me as reasonable and convincing reads). It would take a lot more convincing to get me to vote for Lvdr D1. | ||
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