EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXII - Page 4
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On August 02 2012 10:49 DarthPunk wrote: Hey guys. Just woke up and am going to dive into some Mafia! First of all I am all but convinced that Shady Sands is Mason. The slip is there, and he would have had to fabricate that day 1 with almost nothing to go off. So 99% certain that SS is green. I am going to go back through each of Keirathi and SS filters and see if they were onto anything. I do know however, that both have been suspicious of Obvious. I already had my eye on him and I am going to look through his filter very closely. @goodkarma, There is a post in my filter that addresses my position on Mordanis. At the point I posted that many people had stated they had small town reads on him and no one was contributing or commenting on my case against him. Whilst I did (and still do) have a scum read on mordanis the fact that my case was generating zero discussion and a fear that I was victim of confirmation bias. I felt that I was being unproductive by focusing on him too much. That being said, I have been following mordanis closely and there continue to be unresolved questions around him. Off the Top of my head I will state a few things that are wrong with mordanis. Day one he lead 3 cases against 3 now confirmed townies. He pursued them very aggresively but none of his cases had much merit. The first one he admitted to being dishonest with (didn't really believe there was a case on keir) and was based purely on WIFOM. + Show Spoiler + On July 28 2012 10:46 DarthPunk wrote: Good morning Everyone. First up some thoughts. Golbat I spent the majority of last night reading their filters trying to make sense of it. And it was seriously a mess. From the OMGUS accusations onward. Golbat flip-flops like it is going out of style. And Mordanis still uses a large amount of WIFOM to justify his arguments which just make it more difficult to understand what he is actually saying. One of mordanis' key arguments (claimed scumslip) against golbat was this While it is true that this may be used to hop on whatever bandwagon he wants without fear of reprisal. in the context of the conversation and a simple search through his filter says otherwise. Go read the thread. He was THE FIRST to cast suspicion onto Mord. Mordanis case is built upon the fact that he had insurance to jump on any bandwagon he wanted without fear of reprisal and then jumps on a bandwagon on him. Golbat almost immediately casts suspicion onto Mordanis, then states he may already have an idea of who may be scum. Yep, it seems like he was just backing up his previous claim of mordanis' scumminess. Mordanis Mordanis goes from pushing golbats case and 'scumslip' heavily, to voting shady in the space of a post. We would assume that this sudden change of heart would come with some clear and strong arguements right? Wrong Now this is the post where he flips from golbat onto shady. The first half of his post is meaningless and doesn't actually provide any information or a good reason to flip from someone he had been pursuing whom he believed had scumslipped. Shady could have read Mafia games elsewhere, not just TL. So the whole lie scenario is a stretch and to me doesn't mean anything. He then goes on to speculate on a reason town would lie. This is also meaningless and fails to add anything to the Shady case. the only part of Mordanis' post which gives any clue whatsoever as to why he flipped from his scum read to shady. He meta reads. But not golbats previous game. Obvious.660's. No mention of the strong arguments brought forward about shady by prom and subsequently ange777, no analysis of shady that actually adds anything. Next post after voting shady. what does he decide to do he makes another list in a similar vein as above He talks a big game. Lied and drew heat on himself so we could start scumhunting. I don't buy it. He is not following through. He is not contributing anything of substance. He is flipflopping whilst accusing others of the same. He is not doing the scumhunting he so desperately wanted to start. The case on golbat was a reaction to him casting a vote on mordanis, and he pushed that case throughout the majority of day. But then he jumped on shady sands with an explanation for leaving his previous 'Best scum read' as reading Obvious' filter from the previous game. So he jumped onto another case after leading a mislynch hard throughout day one. contributed very little to it. Tried to manufacture a scenario in which Shady 'lied' and spent several posts muddling the conversation with his case about shady's day 1 lynch scenario, that I personally felt was retarded. So after I pressure him on jumping the ship he built and keirathi somewhat defends shady, he jumps back on to the mislynch he created. The net effect of this play? leads a mislynch whilst sufficiently distancing himself from it through his SS tangent. He then accuses Ange777 of doing something extremely similar. After day 1 his posting whilst improving in clarity and making cases based on something other than WIFOM, have dramatically altered in style and frequency, yet still contain the internal contradictions I first took issue with. His case on prom + Show Spoiler + On July 31 2012 19:10 Mordanis wrote: I'm really confused by Promethelax's play. He just admonished me for fluff posts. His entire first page of his filter is fluff. He comments on my opening case being really bad, regardless of my alignment. Look at his first FOS: + Show Spoiler + On July 27 2012 18:55 Promethelax wrote: I'd like to bring some attention to Zorkmid: He starts with policy talk, as we all did. Follows it up with an immediate about face when he learns about the no-lynch option He leaves hoping for more from others and after that comes back with a question and than dissapears That was over ten hours ago, I don't get it. Where did you go Zork? I don't like his play so far and, thus, a FoS is declared. On July 27 2012 07:18 Promethelax wrote: Okay Ghost, will do. On July 27 2012 07:26 Promethelax wrote: You win for my favourite response ever. If you are ever in my neck of the woods hit me up and I'll buy you a drink just for that. On July 27 2012 07:37 Promethelax wrote: Unrelated to the discussion so far after reading Shady Sands' Op here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355847 I expect awesome posts from him/her. Slim Shady: you've got some awesome to live up to. Since we haven't been productive so far I would like us to turn our attention to pressure: I for one am concerned that MrMedic may not be a medic and is lying about his role in his name. Okay, what I'm actually concerned about is that all he posted is that he is here. I want more. On July 27 2012 07:38 Promethelax wrote: EBWOP: I'm also concerned that his post was edited. Watch yourself my man or Ghost will smite you with his mighty powers. On July 27 2012 08:27 Promethelax wrote: My girlfriend got home so I don't have time to read one last time before going to work. I'll see you in 10-12 hours. Good luck town. On July 27 2012 21:49 Promethelax wrote: Alright, I'll look into their filters and see if anything is popping there. What I found, and still find weird about shady is this: + Show Spoiler + On July 27 2012 08:38 Shady Sands wrote: I'm not sure how Keir telling RB not to use their powers equals Keir roleclaiming as RB. Of course Day 1 roleclaiming is suspicious but this post doesn't fit the bill. But if a clear consensus emerges that he's suspicious, I'd volunteer myself to watch his posting behavior. That said, I do think Day 1 scumhunting could work--but only after everyone (or nearly everyone) has posted. I'm going to go down the list of posters now and do a quick tally. Ange777 - No posts yet Keirathi - Six posts Promethelax - More than 10 posts alan133 - 1 "GLHF" post Mordanis - Three posts Obvious.660 - 2 posts MrMedic - 1 post, edited aRyuujin - 2 posts, both haiku DarthPunk - No posts yet goodkarma - No posts yet Golbat - No posts yet Shady Sands - 2 posts so far Zorkmid - 5 posts Players in order of activity: Promethelax Keirathi Zorkmid Mordanis Obvious.660 aRyuujin Shady Sands alan133 MrMedic -- Lurkers -- Ange777 Darthpunk goodkarma Golbat Once the remaining few lurkers have posted, then we can start scumhunting. The next task is to read through past mafia games and find those with successful Day 1 scumhunts--and see what common lessons can be drawn from them. I'm going to compile a list of those right now. Where he puts a lot of bull shit into the thread and nothing real. He literally used post counts to increase the size of his filter. the other thing in here I want to focus on is his lets wait attitude. for example: from the above post and others He also says that both of these things push town away from hunting for scum, attempting to prevent scum hunting is a huge scum trait. On top of this he misrepresents the facts in newbie 21 (I think) Hopeless1der was lynched d1 as scum so scum hunting has shown to be effective recently. He also replys to my advice by saying scum will blue snipe, they will kill players who won't vote for the right mislynch or who are tunneling scum. There are a million reasons for scum to shoot a bad town player so his first point is wrong and his second point again pushes us away from scum hunting since he insists that vigi shots are our most powerful tool. No they aren't. We are the most powerful town asset and scum hunting is the most powerful town tool. His next post tells us to wait for more people to post until we make cases and the one after that is a case... Sands tells us that we should still hold off even though this guy is the best lynch target. He also tells us that he will likely flip green based on (I assume) the statistics which seems, to me, to be a way to distance himself from a Mord town flip. What originally felt scummy to me in Sands' filter was this post where he says: Re-read that. Do yourself a favour and beat your face against a hard surface. He think that Mord will flip green unless he replys in the way that he (Sands) expects him to in which case he is red...alrighty than. I also hate this post: the bolded part at the end is essentially saying that we should lynch Golbat and if he is green lynch Mord. That seems to be setting us up for two mislynches and, if Sands ever flips red these two are pretty much confirmed town. So based on Sands' play I think that he is scum. He has earned my FoS and as of this moment he would be my vote if nothing changed between now and lynch. I'll be keeping my eye on him because, as he said, just replace Mord with Sands and you see the truth of the statement. He has to keep going and, as Keir well knows, loud scum are easy to find. The other thing that confuses me is the petulance with which Promethelax is trying to become the "town mayor". Here are a few examples: + Show Spoiler + On July 31 2012 17:33 Promethelax wrote: If you have set up questions ask the host otherwise you are just wasting thread space and padding your filter while adding nothing to the thread. On July 30 2012 18:14 Promethelax wrote: Sorry I'm on my way to bed and I figured I would quickly reply to Karma before falling asleep. I am sure I'll miss some points but the basic one of why is my play so different now than it was is that I work Tuesday-Saturday. I play better on my days off. As to the town leader thing: I just spent like ten minutes looking for the quote but couldn't find it. I think it was Marv who said (and I'm paraphrasing) "town needs two things, a good annalist and a good leader; they don't have to be the same person they just both have to exist" I'm not saying I should be a town leader or a town analyst, I am saying that town is following my analysis and that I am taking things said by players whom I greatly respect and trying to forge my town play around that. If the two things that town needs are a good leader and someone with good analysis I will try to provide both. I think you and I don't see eye to eye on what a town leader is. I'm not saying we should elect a mayor, I'm saying having someone who is clearly pro-town trying to create a pro-town environment is a necessity for town. By town leader I mean someone who is creating an environment where town flourishes even if the person creating that environment has their head up their ass on every single one of their reads. Essentially, from what I've read about XIX Promethelax kind of mauled town by getting into the "town circle", and controlling the game from there. I don't think a smart person could try the same strategy against people its already been used on and expect to win again. For that reason, Promethelax's inconsistent/illogical/ seems to be a mild indicator of scumminess. Also, being relatively inactive during one day reduces the amount of stuff any player needs to defend himself later. Edit before having to double post (EBHTDP) I am still confused by large parts of his play. For instance the part about lynching semi-lurkers seems sort of like what he's doing. GK hasn't posted nearly as many times as Prom himself, myself, Keir, Ange, Obvious, or Shady. 6 players of 12 left have 3 or more pages in their filter, the other 6 have 2. GK has spent a lot of his time defending himself, so if you take that away he's pretty lurky. But the caffeine is wearing off now, see y'all in the morning. Still, I like the content he generated with that post on GK, so I'll be watching Prom closely. I seriously need to pass out now though :/ He states many reasons why he thinks prom is scummy, yet the conclusion of the post doesn't really say anything and is incredibly wishy-washy. His next post + Show Spoiler + On August 01 2012 03:54 Mordanis wrote: My opinion on whom to lynch will be heavily influenced by what Prom and SS post. I will be able to vote (don't have anything to take me away) and if neither post in like 20 minutes, I'll just go ahead without their posts. He doesn't want to commit to anyone without having as much information as possible. To me this is very scummy. + Show Spoiler + On August 01 2012 04:50 Mordanis wrote: TT Was hoping I wouldn't have to do this, but here goes. I do not understand Promethelax's play. It has been at times hypocritical, illogical, and bad. I see very little scum motivation for the way he's been playing, assuming he's a competent player. I don't see any town motivation either, so I would prefer to wait to see if he continues to play the way he has. I haven't been able to look into GK's play much, and Promethelax's case on him isn't very strong, so I can't in good conscience vote for him unless I see another good case on him. Shady is in a similar position to Prom where he's had lurky play one day and weird play the other. Still, I can't seem to pin his play in this cycle as scummy. I don't know why people are suspicious of Zork. In other words, we have kind of a lousy set of cases today, for which I hold myself partly responsible. All in all though, I feel that Promethelax is the best target. His play could be described as a way to disrupt the scum-hunt, to get into a position of town-trust, to buddy up with players to make them feel bad for voting for him. I actually feel bad voting for him at this point, but he is my strongest read. ##Vote: Promethelax The half of the post in which he actually votes for someone Is actually spent being wishy-washy and distancing himself from a mis-lynch. He doesn't give any good reasons for jumping on the promethelax vote at the last minute. Doesn't state why he feels like it is a bad choice. doesn't really say anything. His play from the Golbat lynch onwards has been like night and day, there is a Dramatic shift in style and he is spending a lot of time trying to lay low, make wishy-washy conclusions mitigate damage etc. I have always found Mordanis to be suspicious. I continue to find him suspicious. I have watched him and will continue to watch him. So your claim to have been watching me the entire time. You jumped on my bandwagon before the cycle I was even lynched. Sweet. And yet you completely ignored me for the entirety of D2 while pushing your case on Prom. A case which was really weak. Why would you ignore someone you thought was scum for an entire 2 cycles (N2 also). Strange. I have no fucking clue what you mean about the case about my play D1. You say I lead the lynch hard and call that scummy but also call my suspicion of SS and my "lack of contribution" scummy. WTF does this mean. Then you call me retarded. Right. My case on Shady and what was apparently a blatant lie: Somehow not tunneling one player is scummy? Thinking about what things mean rather than being biased is scummy? I think changing opinions on who is the scummiest D1 is pretty aligned with town; the amount of information available to town changes very quickly that early in the game, whereas for scum they don't get much more than they started with. And how I distanced myself from the case when I wrote this + Show Spoiler + On July 29 2012 04:39 Mordanis wrote: Right now, I'm just going to post what my reads are to this point, regarding what has been posted in the last several hours. Shady: This post: + Show Spoiler + On July 28 2012 22:23 Shady Sands wrote: Ah, ok. I just found it a little wierd that you wouldn't mention at all the huge debate surrounding golbat or mordanis, instead only talking about aRyujin's haikus and my one-liner post. I'm going to write a defense post now--hope it addresses your concerns (and the concerns of anyone else who shares your line of thinking.) On July 29 2012 03:23 Shady Sands wrote: This was part of a discussion on whether or not to lynch Mordanis and whether or not to lynch Golbat. From my POV, it looked unlikely that scum would be bussing their own members on Day 1, given that Day 1 lynch rates tended to mislynches anyhow. Therefore, the first half of the statement--that if Mord flips red, Golbat (his main accuser) should be green/blue. I did not state this in the thread because I thought this was apparent. The second half of the statement--that if Mord flips green/blue, Golbat should be red--is because Golbat was, as Mord noted, the first person to start hinting at lynching Mord (before other people had even made up their minds about it) and also made that extremely suspicious "end all discussion, vote Mord" post. This smelled to me like either extremely bad town play (which I, as a general rule, try not to believe in--I think that most players will behave fairly intelligently) or a clear attempt by a red to push for a mislynch. So if Mord was innocent, then the likeliest red would be Golbat. Then, after writing that, I started reading through Golbat's posts themselves, and they suggested an added layer of guilt--especially his flip-flopping and multiple backtracking to defend himself. Then Golbat tried defending himself some more, and looked even more scummy, etc. etc. Golbat: His latest post: + Show Spoiler + On July 28 2012 13:46 Golbat wrote: I'll probably be able to read the thread before I have to go to work tomorrow morning, but in case I don't get that chance, ##Vote aRyujin This is why I am voting for him: His haiku style makes it easy for him to fill up his posts with a shit load of waffle and some nearly baseless accusations and almost get away with it. I hope in between now and deadline the eye of suspicion takes a long, hard look at him, because his confusing waffle is nothing short of a full-on impediment to real discussion. I would also consider voting for Shady Sands, depending on the consensus of the town for these reasons : His direct swap from "I agree with golbat, let's lynch Mord" after Mord drew such attention to himself to "Let's lynch Golbat and then Mord, because one of them HAS to be scum" after people started questioning me is something that I don't think anybody else agreed with. The way he seemed so concrete about who we should lynch for multiple days is really suspicious. We should be picking lynches on a day by day basis as more discussion takes place, not queue up our votes for several days straight. Right now these two seem to me to be the most scummy. Of course, if someone else decides to act scummy as all get out, i'd be happy to vote for them as well, but at the moment these two seem the most suspicious. Hopefully i'll be able to get back and read/contribute more in the morning, as i'll be at work when the deadline hits and won't be home for three or four hours after that. For now, I'll be going to vote for Golbat, but I want to make it clear that I think that a no-lynch at this point would be disastrous, so I would change to keep this from happening. ##Vote: Golbat Can we get another vote count? Plz! DP again misreads my post on Prom. I said I was confused by his play, I did not say it was scummy. DP then goes on to say that my not wanting to vote without information is scummy. Why? Scum know the flip, and with their handy-dandy knowledge of who's who its a lot easier to understand peoples' play. Who is killed doesn't matter as much to scum either because as long as it furthers their goal of remaining undetected, they are happy with the result. They keep their kp. Town, on the other hand, gets only one vote for one lynch per day. With very limited information, trying to get information before voting seems rather more suited towards town play than scum. Again DP completely ignores what he just posted on me to build his nonsensical case on me. The previous thing that he called me out for being wishy-washy is my reason for thinking the lynch on Prom was a bad choice. Prom's play was confusing, but it didn't help scum really. He called me out for thinking it was a weak case but ignores my explanation for why and then calls me out for not explaining why I thought it was a weak case. Wow, that logic seemed pretty circular. Long story short, the few things in this case that might seem weird have no justification for why they are scummy, and the rest is DP citing one short period of time and calling me out for doing one thing and the opposite of that thing. DP is either too busy eating glue to think, too biased to think critically, or scum. A final note to DP: I really don't hate you. But your play has been incredibly obnoxious (Really, you've been focused only on me except for a brief interlude pushing a case on Prom) to me and your refusal to even clarify your argument and your ignoring of what I have posted in defence and calling it weak without explaining is at best rude, at worst rude and incredibly arrogant. Hopefully you'll stop acting to this way, and if not then I guess I'll just have to avoid you, because I don't like people who are mean for the sake of being mean. Please read the part in the OP where it says "This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing." Edit before having to double post: On August 03 2012 15:10 Obvious.660 wrote: I'm willing to get behind the Mordanis vote (Shady Sands' vote candidate) to secure a lynch, as I'm hoping he's not going to change it at this point. Probably should switch now, tomorrow is 12 hours on my feet in the heat and I'm out the door as soon as I wake up and get ready. I'll try to check in to see what's up in 8 hours or so but honestly, probably won't get the chance until ~24 hours from now. Good luck, friends. ##UNVOTE ##VOTE Mordanis So you're jumping on a bandwagon and leaving, along with Aryuu, and hoping that I'm going to be lynched over anyone else. This is seriously the dumbest vote I've ever seen. Seriously, does everyone just hate me with a passion? | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
On August 03 2012 15:50 DarthPunk wrote: Before I address your post I wanted to respond to this, because I feel really bad about it. To Mord and anyone else that may be offended by my posting I apologise. To me this is a game and when I attack peoples posts I am just attacking their posts in the game, not them personally. I don't hate anyone here at all. Far from it. I am trying my best to play the game. Follow my reads etc. I really do not want to upset or offend anyone. And I especially do not want to make the game so unfun for people that they wish to stop playing. If whilst I pursue scum and make cases and counter cases etc. I come across that way, I once again apologise. Perhaps this is not the game for me. I will continue playing this game out. I am a friendly guy in real life but if this is a consistent feeling amongst all the players here then I do not like making others feel bad and therefore this will probably be my last game. Nonetheless. I am going to read your post and respond. It's not that you're using impolite language or arguing purely ad hominem, its just that you're tunneling me in what seems to be a very biased fashion. You refuse to clarify arguments because you're so convinced of them, but won't even respond to defense other than saying it wasn't satisfactory. It's one thing to hunt for scum, another to just push a case regardless of what the person you've been working on posts or does. Really, you tunneled me D1 and N1, and you're back at it harder N2, and you won't even dignify my attempts to absolve myself with thought. Had you actually gone through the trouble of arguing a case, rather than posting a case and then ignoring everything I've posted, I'd be totally cool with it. You don't have to quit playing, in fact I'd say you should play much more, but it sucks to be tunneled and ignored for basically the entire game. If you are able to make argue case that is so convincing I can't dig my way out of it, I'll be happy to die a good townie death (our two previous townies' lynchings have sort of been duds, no defense, not posting good cases but instead just sort of disagreeing on principle) and see if I can't nail some scum in my dying hours. I am not afraid of dying, I am afraid of dying for no reason. Anyways, I'm done defending myself, because at this point compiling analyses is infinitely preferable to defending myself ad nauseam, regardless of whether I am lynched or not. The scum hunt must never be stopped! I'll be back ~4 hours before the deadline, and I'll start reading through at that point. See you all in the morning! | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
@SS Before I begin, I want to question how you can praise Ange (when she even took inspiration from GK, so if you're looking for the first suspicion D3 against Zork, its GK) for her case + call her confirmed townie and condemn me for "leading a hit squad that almost forced a no-lynch"? You're making me sad TT... Also, the fact that so many people are convinced that scum wouldn't bus one of their one at this point means that it was probably the best play for them, regardless of what really happened. I'm not willing to dismiss any sort of bussing yet. Moving on, I come to back to my case against Alan. Once again, Alan does one of his massive posts where he soft-defends two players and "pushes" the third. The third in this case was Prom. Interestingly, Alan picks up the "emotion" post that I said seemed contrived and used it as a way to meta-soft-defend Zork. Keir picked up on this post too, and he's flipped town, so this isn't a definite case, but the anecdote from the previous game is exactly the kind of non-stated psychological manipulations I've been looking for in scum. It isn't anything you can argue with, but it's something that begs to be sympathized with. Also, scum who contrive posts to exude "good townie frustration" would likely want their scumbuddies to follow through and say that frustration is a townie trait, but this is getting into the realm of WIFOM. I see this as motivated by scum goals, as it isn't anything that can come back to bite him in the ass until Zork flips, defends scum, and it doesn't help hunt scum. Another thing that struck me as scummy about his play is his attempt to simultaneously jump on my bandwagon and OMGUS me. He claims that it was not purely an OMGUS, but he voted me before posting any analysis. He sticks to his vote for me based on my not defending myself from his case, + Show Spoiler [I digress] + Just as an aside, If I had defended myself by picking apart every line of every accusation posted against me, I'd never have done anything but defend myself, which wouldn't have helped town. Instead I defended myself against the two main cases, and since there were basically no counter-arguments, and then hunted and found scum. + Show Spoiler + On August 03 2012 23:35 alan133 wrote: I just came back from working after hours. @Mordanis I am disappointed. No one ever look at any case I wrote. Are they that bad? Am I being ignored? No. Not even Mordanis feels he needs to waste his energy posting a defence. Do you think it suck so bad it does not even matter, or you are just ignoring it, like how you have been ignoring other people's case on you, for being widely inactive, and over-apologetic. Why was MY post never taken seriously all the time? Do I suck that bad? Why are you ignoring my defence on your case against me? Did you just randomly pick two players and attack them? Once one of them sparked a Zorkmid bandwagon you totally forgotten about me? Do I still deserve my FOS or not? Did my defence cleared myself out of doubt or not? Why are you playing in such a way? You started the first ever case, and lingers on it despite you're calling yourself "trying to spark the scumhunt?" Why do you switch to Golbat, Shady and Golbat again? Are you desperate to hunt scum, or are you desperate to @Ange Yes. I saw your case on Zork. I don't see the OBVIOUS SCUM SLIP. Your arguments on him was that he is wishy-washy, never built a real case himself, which yourself suggested that it satisfies a whole lot of players in this particular game. Then you jumped to OMG I MISSED SCUM SLIP. I failed to understand how speaking from a thrid-person's PoV imply you aren't part of that person's circle? SO you are also suggesting Mordanis must not be scum because he is speaking from a thrid-person's PoV every single time he talk about scum's possible motivation? + Show Spoiler + I can't believe I missed that TOWN SLIP! @Zorkmid What the heck is your game? Where Why did you sheep? Why were your cases a rehash of everyone else's case? Where is your own reads? You and all the lurkers are all hurting town, or is being INCREDIBLY LAZY SCUMS. @JingleHell + Show Spoiler + What the hell? What's up with that most painfully narrow tunnel I have ever seen? Why do you make me regret saying I adore your play? How does:
Why do he needs to explain a townie motive? How do you explain one? What motive could he have, at all. How about, give me a townie motive for tunnelling and voting on such a ridiculous case? I don't see a townie motive. Mind explaining yourself? I suggest you drop your case on Ange, and votes one of the candidates here instead, as it is very possible that there is a SCUM in here. + Show Spoiler + Oh wait I need to explain a townie motivation. How about REDUCING THE RISK OF GETTING A NO LYNCH?. In all seriousness, mind posting something that is other than: + Show Spoiler + Target's latest defence against No! You did not explain a town motive! I vote you ##v0t3 example1 over a thousand times? Alan: Why were you angry at Zork for playing scummily? | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
On August 05 2012 01:42 Shady Sands wrote: The phrase "Mordanis hit squad" referred to the hit squad that was targetted at you. Oh. I feel silly now. My bad :D @ Alan: + Show Spoiler [Out of Game] + Being wrong in your first mini isn't a big deal. Scum-hunting is a skill like anything else, you acquire it through practice and experience. Don't beat yourself up for being wrong. Learn. I've been wrong on pretty much all of my reads except Zork and I've played as town and scum before ^^ Anyways, I really need to read through again to analyze how the voting went, as I'm kind of confused by it right now. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
On August 03 2012 16:50 DarthPunk wrote: Although this doesn't address the cases against you I will respond. I posted about you several times during day 2. They are contained within the case you quoted. I don't like to post much during night cycles as all it does is give mafia additional information upon which they can make a night kill. We can't lynch at night so I don't see the point in showing your hand. This has all been stated previously. But you seem to want me to state it all gain so here goes. The thing scummy with your day one play is that you lead the mislynch of Golbat for pretty much the entire day. After the bandwagon had started rolling you said that you read obvious' filter from the previous game and that convinced you enough that Golbat was townie that you unvoted him. You then second the position of others and voted Shady Sands without basing it on reasoning or adding anything to the case. The reason I believe this is scummy You lead a mislynch then once the ball was rolling you switched voted onto someone elses case. I believe you did that in order to distance you self from the mislynch and to set up a potential mis-lynch day 2. After receiving pressure from this turn of events from myself and Keirathi. you revert to your original position on Golbat. You were still one of the last to vote for golbat, despite leading his mislynch and amidst the confusion i believe you achieved your goal. To lead a mislynch on golbat whilst attempting to distance yourself from it, and potentially set up a mislynch on shady sands for the following cycle. I Have stated this a few times. I apologise if it was not clear enough to understand. Edit before having to double post (EBHTDP) I am still confused by large parts of his play. For instance the part about lynching semi-lurkers seems sort of like what he's doing. GK hasn't posted nearly as many times as Prom himself, myself, Keir, Ange, Obvious, or Shady. 6 players of 12 left have 3 or more pages in their filter, the other 6 have 2. GK has spent a lot of his time defending himself, so if you take that away he's pretty lurky. But the caffeine is wearing off now, see y'all in the morning. Still, I like the content he generated with that post on GK, so I'll be watching Prom closely. I seriously need to pass out now though :/ On August 03 2012 15:23 Mordanis wrote: DP then goes on to say that my not wanting to vote without information is scummy. Why? Scum know the flip, and with their handy-dandy knowledge of who's who its a lot easier to understand peoples' play. Who is killed doesn't matter as much to scum either because as long as it furthers their goal of remaining undetected, they are happy with the result. They keep their kp. Town, on the other hand, gets only one vote for one lynch per day. With very limited information, trying to get information before voting seems rather more suited towards town play than scum. I disagree. You had all day to review the thread, filters and to post cases. Yet the posts you made were very wishy-washy. etc and non-committal. Waiting to see who others will vote for is scummy behaviour because it allows you to just join the most popular bandwagon in order to seem less conspicuous. Which is Exactly what you did in the end. During your vote you were wishy-washy and it seemed you were distancing yourself from the mislynch. I feel like what i have already posted on this topic makes sense. If you didn't think prox was scum why did you vote for him? If you did why were you so wishywashy and attempt to distance yourself from the lynch before he flipped the elegant solution is that you knew he was going to flip green and wanted to distance yourself from the mislynch but still ensure it happened. Therefore I feel it is scummy. On August 03 2012 15:23 Mordanis wrote: Again DP completely ignores what he just posted on me to build his nonsensical case on me. The previous thing that he called me out for being wishy-washy is my reason for thinking the lynch on Prom was a bad choice. Prom's play was confusing, but it didn't help scum really. He called me out for thinking it was a weak case but ignores my explanation for why and then calls me out for not explaining why I thought it was a weak case. Wow, that logic seemed pretty circular. Long story short, the few things in this case that might seem weird have no justification for why they are scummy, and the rest is DP citing one short period of time and calling me out for doing one thing and the opposite of that thing. DP is either too busy eating glue to think, too biased to think critically, or scum. I really don't understand this argument at all really. This is not true at all. I thought the cases on you were quite clear and I didn't feel the need to repeat the cases against you again. Your explanations I feel have not been adequate and seem to confirm you are scum because your defense of the case against you has been a mess. Others can understand the points and cases against you. I just assumed you would too. (as I said previously I am sorry if you feel I have been/am being rude and obnoxious towards you. I am just arguing my case it is not personal) On August 03 2012 18:40 DarthPunk wrote: Ok my analysis - ignoring the scum slip which I will get to later. Zork is playing really badly. He is playing really badly as town OR as scum. He has been confused more than once as to what is happening in the game, who he has suspicions on etc. Which makes me tend to believe him when he says that he is not paying attention to the thread because of IRL commitments. Because why? what are the scum motivations behind his posts? This is still bad play and hurts town. As I said earlier It isn't easy to get a scum read when there has been so little activity from him. His posts make no sense as either scum or town. He is Lurking though. If we get to LYLO and we have nothing to go off in terms of reads that is a major liability. on the scum slip. @ange777 I don't think your logic is as iron clad as you believe. What I think he is trying to say is this. He thinks saying this is scummy. No town player would need to say this, he is town so he wouldn't say it. It is WIFOM and speculation and is written poorly. (which I hate) yet can't see a scum motivation or plan for this. It is possible that he is scum and that this is the evidence. It is also possible that he is bad at explaining himself, a poor writer and you are reading too much into this. Your entire case is based around reading a few statements a certain way, and thus seems to be weaker than my case on mordanis and weaker than your case on mordanis (that you seem to have dropped off the face of the earth). If it comes to a no lynch situation I will be willing to change my vote. (as everyone should be) but at this time the cases on Mordanis are far stronger. If people are set on lynching lurky players aRyuujin is a stronger lynch IMO. He has less than a one page filter he votes Golbat day 1. went AFK for 2 cycles comes back and puts a vote on mord that just echos my position and then leaves again. I wish we still had a Vig cause aRyuujin has been and will increasingly become a serious liability. On August 03 2012 20:01 DarthPunk wrote: When I first saw it last night I saw it the same way that you do, but then I read this. This whilst far from enough to convince me of his innocence, IS a plausible explanation of his slip. I am not comfortable with risking a mislynch on a player based off reading one sentence a certain way when there is a plausible explanation which can cause it to be looked at in a different way. Remember the last 'scumslip' in this game. With golbat? I don't want a repeat of that. So I need more than the perceived Scumslip to go off on Zorkmid. The rest of the case is much less developed. 1. semi-lurking 2. posting inconsistently 3. waiting for cases to sheep These are all true. And I have read his filter several times. However, as I have said before, I feel the cases on mordanis are much stronger. In terms of the MrMedic thing that you have mentioned a few times. I noticed reading through his filter that he was actually talking about aRyuujin in the post you referenced. as I stated previously I can't see any logical motivation to his posting. Although I don't see how having little if any defense at all on a case against him proves his motive one way or another. If he wrote a disproportionate amount in his defense and on closer inspection it contained nothing of substance that would give me a definite scum vibe. but no defense at all? I can't see that helping scum OR town. If we are going to lynch a lurker which seems to be the other main argument against Zorkmid I would rather lynch the player with a 1 page filter than the one with a 3 page filter. As for the thing with jingle. I will need to read through it again. On August 03 2012 21:03 DarthPunk wrote: He is making mistakes. But there doesn't seem to be a discernible motive behind them. If these mistakes in some way furthered an agenda they would be a lot more worrying to me than just making mistakes for no reason whatsoever. This actually makes me lean towards just a bad townie more than anything. Why as scum would he make such obvious mistakes and cast suspicion on him for nothing? To me it seems less likely for scum to make stupid mistakes like this exactly because they are more likely to be careful. Even mords day 1 posting was better than this. What made it scummy? he was actively pursuing an agenda. If zork has an agenda with his mistakes it is to make everyone super suspicious of him. This is the reason I don't think these mistakes can be used as 100% proof of his scumminess as you do. On August 03 2012 22:29 DarthPunk wrote: It gives me more of a town vibe because scum are more likely to be careful and not make stupid mistakes like Zork is making. But as you say, making mistakes like that does not mean he is town and he could just as likely be scum. What I don't understand about the mistakes he made, and this didn't come across in your case on him, Is what motivation could he have for playing so badly? All the other mistakes that have been made in this game to me seem to have been trying to confuse peoples cases, distance themselves from mislynches, cause a mislynch etc. Thoughts? DP: Why did you change your vote from someone you've been suspicious of literally all game to someone you've only defended, in the middle of a tied vote situation, for the most vague reason possible. + Show Spoiler + Before you call this an OMGUS accusation, remember that DP has literally been tunneling me the entire game. I haven't accused him of anything before now, because his play hadn't struck me as particularly scummy. You could say I'm interested now. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
I'm leaving the game 6 ft under in a coffin. At first the scum seemed to have a W16 under their bonnet, But town has proved to have the intellectual power of a boffin. At first things seemed so grim, but now they are so so bright! So fill with hope your hearts to the brim if you're town; If you're scum, your hope should be slight. You're all so incredibly smart, Scum have no chance of taking this game. Town: you can get this game for $4.99 at KMart, Scum, for you I can't say the same. Though I must leave you all now, take courage For I will be with you in spirit always. And eat your porridge. + Show Spoiler + I've been given permission to point out that the rhyme scheme is abab cdcd efef gg | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
Also, the scariest part of the entire game was Shady's statement that if GK flipped scum, Ange or anyone else could also be scum. Ignoring the fact that I don't think it would make sense in any situation, it was saying there were still multiple scum left in the game. I'm was afraid the entire game would enravel... | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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