Newbie Mini Mafia XXI
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Hopeless1der
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Hopeless1der
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On July 11 2012 12:22 tube wrote: /in Its like every single time...come on, read the op for real this time | ||
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On July 12 2012 14:07 ConfirmedTownie wrote: /in Sure you are. I know you can read. And smurf like a boss you bastard. | ||
Hopeless1der
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On July 12 2012 14:15 Blazinghand wrote: oh oops I mean /in I will be active, and not be modkilled. CAUGHT YOU!! OH MAN, I WISH I COULD USE BLUE TEXT. | ||
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On July 09 2012 07:40 Probulous wrote: Please read the entire thread before signing up. Thank you. I feel this is unfair to the last person to sign up. I also realize it probably means OP but...yeah. | ||
Hopeless1der
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Hopeless1der
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Hopeless1der
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Town (lynched day-1): NMM XVIII Town (Endgamed:NMM XIX Scum (lynched day-1);NMM XX I'm on MST, and should be active (or at least up to date on the thread) any time throughout the day from ~6AM-11PM. I disagree with the use of meta, at least in newbie, despite the fact that it seemed like Hapa relied on it heavily in NMMXX to get a big day-1 lynch. I made a terrible accusation against him that let him tunnel me to victory. The meta case could have easily gone either way in my opinion. Actual reads are always going to outweigh any meta analysis when I consider a case against any player. I don't care if you have a scummy meta, SCUMMY PLAY DOES NOT HELP TOWN! If I find your play scummy, I'm going to read you as scum and push for your lynch. Still nothing really serious going on. As of now, my goal is to not lynch any lurkers. That kind of sucks for me, because I have every intention of voting for a lurker. I know I just contradicted myself. My reasoning is that in a mini, and especially after we had to post "I will be active" to /in, lurking is beyond unacceptable. This does not mean I'm going to not try to get discussion going. Especially because: THIS IS PLURALITY LYNCH, NOT MAJORITY. My choice of which lurker is not going to be known until its much closer to the vote deadline. This is especially because I've found that early votes lead to very unreliable bandwagon activity from town players as well as scum. I'm hoping there is no one to choose from due to the amazing activity in the thread and I get to vote for a scummy read instead. -@Calgar Regarding the "wait and see" discussion: "I have nothing else to contribute right now, and there isn't really any info to make reads with the current information. Instead of mucking up the thread with random policy or spam, I'm just going to shut my trap and wait for some activity." Unless of course we want to get random policy discussion going. Or the merits of naming yourself after sex-toys, or why tube won't post using reasonable punctuation. There is always something to post, and I'd rather see remarkably random discussions being started instead of straight up saying "I'm just going to sit here and wait." On July 16 2012 11:50 JingleHell wrote: "Wait and see" is mutually exclusive with "instigate discussion". The only reason you're in this discussion is because Jingle thought what you said was (or could be interpreted as) scummy. He explicitly prevented you from waiting by pressuring you now. On July 16 2012 12:08 calgar wrote: Interesting that you say that, considering it (and the the rest of my post) has instigated a discussion with you. This is bullshit to me. You're post had no intention of instigating any discussion. On July 16 2012 11:28 calgar wrote: You guys may end up being be right but I'm not expecting anything to come easily. I suppose we'll have to wait and see. Very quiet first night so far, though, so not much to be done really. If it did, it was because you knew it was a scummy thing to say and someone would call you out on it. Otherwise you could literally have posted nothing, and achieved a similar result. I do think Jingle was reading too much into the initial statement, but I find your reactions to it to be over the top. | ||
Hopeless1der
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On July 16 2012 12:57 calgar wrote: You have to understand that I voluntarily posted with nothing to post about (essentially). This post about, what I felt was nothing, started it up. So it doesn't make sense to dismiss my part in it as "bullshit". I felt like in this beginning scenario making a rather content-less post was better than not posting at all. I'm glad my post has caused him to pressure. It seems like you've misunderstood specifically what I was referring to, probably the crappy structure of my post.The b.s. part was where you said your post had instigated discussion. Basically Jingle's first paragraph above. | ||
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FoS tube No. Hapa made a completely reasonable observation regarding your posting habits (of producing worthless spam) and you A) respond to it and B) blow it off like its nothing. Accusations and suspicions don't just disappear because you ignore them or dismiss them with no further explanation than NOPE! Any time your ready, you can chime in on any of the ongoing discussions. Doing that would prove the accusations wrong, as opposed to just arguing that they're wrong. You know what I thought of when making this post: In other news, Fulla's filter makes me nervous. + Show Spoiler + Just under 4 hours until a full day from his welcome post. Wtf? Perhaps busy or something, but ffs, that looks fishy. FoS Fulla | ||
Hopeless1der
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On July 17 2012 06:02 drwiggl3s wrote: Is this.. a scum slip? You should always go for mafia. Lynching someone for being bad-town is a mistake. This is a noobie game after all. Do you have a list of mafia for us to choose from? Are you on that list, Captain Obvious (No relation)? I thought I was supposed to get myself killed Day 1 every time, hence my abysmal history in playing this game. [/sarcasm] Lynching a bad townie in absence of scum to choose from is the best play town can make (unless its MYLO) imo. Are we allowed to Vote: No Lynch? There's some theoretical crap about even numbers of town-vs-scum being better for a potential mislynch or something to that effect. I might have it backwards in some way, but anyways, mislynching still gives information and the entire process leading up to getting tube (mis)lynched will give us information as well. If along the way someone makes a scumslip well guess what, I'll probably be voting for the scummy player. We need to do something to force reads from people who refuse to contribute. Almost getting them lynched should work as reasonable motivation I'd hope. | ||
Hopeless1der
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I'd suggest we leave him alone until tomorrow morning to see if he is in fact capable of making reads. There's 11 other players to analyze and conclude whether we think they're scum or town. By no means does this imply I'm giving him a free pass. If he hasn't come back with something meaningful by lynch time tomorrow, I'm likely to be joining Jingle's (present) company. I'm still waiting for Fulla to show up for real. Almost 24 hours now since his Welcome Everyone post. | ||
Hopeless1der
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I don't know what a rough statistic of what a one-liner poster might flip as, but it is not the same as an overactive day1 poster. The lack of content is what is detrimental, and that is reason enough for suspicion because that type of posting is beneficial to mafia. In general I don't believe an overly active poster could be hurting town unless he was actively pushing scummy agenda's and would probably get called out for it. The other thing is that your reads are needed to help town no matter how newbie they are. Don't let that stop you. | ||
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And They All Lived Happily Ever Afterhttp://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=...and_they_all_lived_happily_ever_after Numbers, Part 1http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Numbers,_Part_1 I was vaguely correct, which may as well mean I was wrong. The links have very limited bearing on this game and are probably not worth discussing at this point in time. Hapa asked about it and I said I'd find the info I was referring to (albeit poorly applicable info). If there is something in there that someone finds relevant to the discussions, then by all means... After catching up, I notice that Fulla has disappeared yet again. Seriously what in the hell. Are you even trying to be active? I asked you a direct question and you run for the hills or something. Vote: Fulla Moving on, Un-FoS: tube since he has started to actually post things that seem reasonable, if not full reads/cases yet. Also his early posting style was too flippant for me to believe he's scum in a newbie game. If he slips later I'll revisit but for now I'm reading him as town. Too tired to properly comment on Obvious.660 right now, but basically FoS: Obvious.660. I probably wont be posting until Noon-ish tomorrow (~5 hours before deadline). | ||
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##Vote: Fulla And also it seems I semi-failed at links. I'm awesome. | ||
Hopeless1der
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Obvious.660's whole interaction regarding tube looks scummy. More to follow later, my vote remains on Fulla for the time being, but I'm heavily considering switching to Obvious.660 | ||
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I think the combination of attempting to pass off his 'sacrificial lamb' case as supportive reasoning for his bad case on tube and the bad case itself are suspicious. Hapa, you made note that his list doesn't spread suspicion on everyone "which is what scum want". That would look retarded if he made a list of why EVERYONE IS SCUM! His summary contains very weak, albeit straightforward, insight into his current reads. Highlights include: - gut feeling - no scummy feelings yet - lurking hard These items are of very little use to town. I'd rather see a case on who he thinks is scum and why. We can't/won't divert attention unless he presents a case that shows someone else is scummier than he is. Making these summary posts is filler and a waste of our time. If he is town, he is doing a poor job of defending himself. YourHarry has not really done much to warrant suspicion aside from lurking to a certain degree. While I agree that lurking looks bad on him, especially in light of his meta, I find Obvious' play to be more scummy at this point in time. Obvious' actual actions show poor cases, backtracking, flawed reasoning and a non-committal summary post. Now, I realize that Jingle is coming off harsh here, but I think he's justified. You're dismissal of the case on Obvious.660 in the quoted post below is precisely why Jingle hates dealing with you. On July 17 2012 23:43 Hapahauli wrote: I believe YourHarry to be a better lynch case than Tube or Obvious.660 at this stage of the game. While Tube has made some suspicious posts, he's waaaaay too upfront/naieve about his suspicious behavior, and comes across as a really really bad townie player. Suspicion alone is not enough to lynch someone - its more important to look for Mafia Motive. Obvious.660 reads as pretty townie to me. He has many lengthy posts, provides clear reasoning for his actions, is playing recklessly. I don't understand the bandwagon at all, and this looks all too similar to the "LYNCH LAZERMONKEY" bandwagon on Day 1 in Newbie Mini Mafia XX. I don't want to spend pages and pages screaming in his defense this game, but I will do if we do this bandwagon shit again. YOU ARE NOT ALWAYS RIGHT, YOU SAID SO YOURSELF. Just because you think YourHarry is a scummy player and Obvious is not scummy, that does NOT give you the right to assume we're bandwagoning him. I have a suspicious read on Obvious, so does perfection, so does Jingle, so does tube. EVEN IF he flips town, you're attitude regarding other people's reads discredits anyone else's ability to post a read that does not match your own. Jingle was town in XX, but because he didn't agree with you, (and you found scum) he was tunneled hard as your scummiest read, almost exclusively because of the fact that he disagreed with you. Had your initial read on me been wrong, I am of the opinion that you STILL would have gone after Jingle based on the way you have responded. Since Jingle has berated you for "being Hapa" you've started to address the case more specifically, but still with the air of someone who knows he's right and won't take no for an answer. This is harmful to town because a) it leads to OMGUS as you may have noticed and b) has the risk of painting you with a huge scum target if your read flips town. If you have a problem with a case and think Obvious is town, try to not say it like we're retards that can't comprehend the situation. I know what a bandwagon is. I might be on one, but my reasons for being here are very clear and I've yet to contribute my vote in any case. If you think we're too strung up on Obvious' case, it may be necessary to develop a defensive case on his behalf to convince us of his towniness. You shouldn't have to, but if its that important that we lynch YourHarry, sometimes you have to convince us that OUR target is town instead of YOUR target is scum | ||
Hopeless1der
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So...I need to actually do work at work I think...I should be back around 2 hours before deadline to review the thread and vote accordingly if necessary. As it stands, I'm fine with my vote on Fulla as I specifically tried to get him talking and he disappeared without addressing my question. It wasn't even policy or reads or anything, I wanted to know about his activity patterns and I've still got nothing on him. If there are any problems/suspicious things in my filter regarding my reads, votes or anything else that isn't directly related to today's lynch please save it for night so we don't clutter the thread during the few hours we have remaining. | ||
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Unless someone unvotes Obvious.660, there is no way to alter the vote at this point because he got to 6 votes first. | ||
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(Post count started from Day 1 post) Iamperfection: 3 posts Fulla: 5 posts Mufaa: 5 posts drwiggl3s: 14 posts Evulrabbitz: 7 posts Players from above who voted for Obvious.660: Iamperfection Evulrabbitz Fulla I'll be gone for a bit. Going to look into iamperfection when I return, because he looks scummiest of the players listed there. | ||
Hopeless1der
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One thing though that's bothering me: Fulla, are you going to answer my question? On July 17 2012 09:00 Hopeless1der wrote: Fulla it took over 24 hours from your first post to your second. Any comment beyond I'm new? Is this your normal posting habits or can we expect more from you? | ||
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On July 19 2012 09:54 JingleHell wrote: I think that's about all for now. Any further thoughts? Okay I've read through Jingle's case on Calgar. I've spoilered the individual aspects separately. Here are my further thoughts: + Show Spoiler + Early on, during his 'wait and see' dilemma, he proposed that his post managed to generate discussion and behaved like it was intentional. Jingle was the one who called him out as it being a scummy looking thing to say, and he comes back to defend himself a lot harder than I would have considered justified. Here are the three posts in succession: On July 16 2012 11:28 calgar wrote: You guys may end up being be right but I'm not expecting anything to come easily. I suppose we'll have to wait and see. Very quiet first night so far, though, so not much to be done really. On July 16 2012 11:35 JingleHell wrote: See, that's suspect in and of itself. "Wait and see" is trouble. Make something happen or lose. And just your bit about not expecting things to come easily, just sounds like you're hoping to plant seeds of doubt early, so that you can point to it later when you go WIFOM crazy on us. On July 16 2012 11:45 calgar wrote: I think you're reading into my words way too much. I mean them as plainly as possible - I'm not aiming to have any subtle ulterior-motive second speech going on. I agree, make something happen or lose. Difficult when people are not posting, though, agreed? Thus talking to try and instigate said discussion, agree? Should I rather become silent - no, disagree. I'm trying to be as productive as possible - and at least giving other people a little bit to go on and analyze to make decisions for themselves. What on earth are you talking about here? Why are you predicting that I will point to seeds of doubt later that I haven't even laid? What I said in my last post: 1: you guys may be correct that mafia will reveal with obvious tells. 2: i'm going to give them more credit than that though 3: very little dialogue occurring currently. What you say: you're going to turn on us with your seeds of doubt. Not very logical, imo. The bolded seems like the direct response to Jingle's post. Which strikes me as illogical, as he just said he would "wait and see". People aren't posting, the thread is quiet, so I will wait for them to post. To the underlined: He was being semi-productive before this post, but again, the "There isn't really much to do" makes it sound like hes not going to continue to be as productive as possible" in the near future. + Show Spoiler + The next thing is that he has already made the following couple posts that I find strange: On July 16 2012 09:06 calgar wrote: I have to disagree with you here. We saw firsthand how hapa crushed hopeless last game with a thorough meta-analysis. This means it is at least worth something. Having said that, I think it will be less useful this game since those who saw what happened will be more careful to avoid similar mistakes. And some players (like me) have no history to analyze. On July 16 2012 10:07 calgar wrote: You make a very interesting inference there, hapa. You infer that my lack of mafia history on TL equates to newbieness. I have in fact played many games of Mafia before and am not a newb. I don’t plan to use newbieness as any kind of excuse for my actions. I agree when taken out of context (--snip--) it could be interpreted how you did, as a subtle suggestion of ‘newbieness’. But I meant to use it as a supporting fact as to why I think meta will be less effective this game. Here are my thoughts: this is a newbie game, after all, so bringing attention to newbieness is only useful insofar as creating an excuse/cover for anti-town play. “forgive me for acting stupid and spreading confusion, I’m a newb LOLOL”. If there is no suspicious behavior to cover up then it doesn’t have value as a cover. Moreover, I think that the ‘newb cover’ strategy has been way overplayed. Kind of like the lurk-and-hope-no-one-notices-you strategy. I would imagine any mafia trying to use such an obvious excuse like that would only be drawing unwanted attention. In other words, a very poor game move so early that intelligent players would not make. In that second post, Calgar admits to having played before, but in the previous post made it look like he was just another newbie. What kind of games were these? IRC, IRL, another forum? It doesn't really matter, but his comments are suspicious when I actually read through his filter here. + Show Spoiler + The next thing is when he said he'd push super hard to get iamperfection lynched instead of Obvious.660. Here is him trying: On July 18 2012 06:06 calgar wrote: That wasn't my "grounds", that was drwiggles. I've outlined several reasons I think he has displayed pro-town play. On July 18 2012 06:32 calgar wrote: You've mis-characterized my read as simpler than it is. It's not only because we agree. I think, based on his limited post history, iamperfection is a better lynch (where is he, anyways...?). I'd rather vote for someone with few posts that displays decidedly mafia-esque behavior than someone with many more who has had positive town impact in posts and some shifty reads/decisions. All negative in one case whereas there is some positive in the second, leading to a higher percentage of successful lynch. That's my theory. -He operates with the principle "Form an opinion, roll with it, see what information it can get you. Don't sit on the sideline and let everyone else do the work." A pro-discussion principle which he follows. -He convinces tube to become a useful player by questioning him. This is decidedly pro-town. -He tunnels and makes a bad read, as he says and backs off. The theory is attractive in some sense; if a personality change did occur then it would be possible that it were coached. He just overestimated the personality shift that occurred. Bad read, which he then backs off of. Why would mafia go out on the line like this with a bold call, and then retract? This is WIFOM I know... -He puts up content voluntarily for people to discuss, which is more than others have been doing in the way of discussion promoting. I guess I'm having a hard time defending him. What's there is there, it's just how you interpret it. It would be nice if he showed up. Great effort bud! I don't care how pointless it looks, finish the job. The absolutely terrible job attempting to push iamperfection lends credence to the idea that it was a bus job. + Show Spoiler + Jingle has gone over the proposed vigi shot on perfection already. Personally, I think it would have a been a stupid idea to begin with, but calgar does a poor job of selling the idea to us anyways. When Jingle asks him to defend his read (with his life) he backfires that Jingle suggesting he sacrifice himself on the chance he's wrong is a scummy suggestion. I'm inclined to read this as a weak bus attempt by getting the vigi to do his dirty work for him. "...Only mafia would try to set me up to look bad after the vigilante hit." ~calgar Later he denies calling Jingle scum. Well he correct I guess, he didn't type it in words, but its pretty heavily implied in that quote. Later on, after Hapa has expressed a similar concern that shooting iamperfection is a bad move this early, he jumps right on board with no issue. He goes on to blare at Jingle again using circular WIFOM logic that makes so many hypotheticals that is pretty much unreadable. I could pretty much pick apart everything in his post and point out precisely why scum might do what he says he did, but again WIFOM bullshit that goes around in a circle. The point is, he looks scummy. He's using every word he can to casually imply that Jingle's actions are more scummy than his own are, BUT ALSO SAYS that Jingle is a strong town read for him. This logic basically says its okay for town to behave like scum, because they'll still be a town read to him anyways. + Show Spoiler + This last bit is pure speculation, but I would have been trying to pit Jingle and Hapa against each other after the shitshow they demonstrated earlier. Since Hapa is essentially on Jingle's side here, calgar's eagerness to side with Hapa feels like a buy-in onto Hapa's town cred. In any event, based on Jingle's case and my own reads, I'm currently reading calgar as scum Jeez that took a while. I still have to go through iamperfection, which I never got around to. That should be up before I go to bed. | ||
Hopeless1der
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+ Show Spoiler + On July 17 2012 00:42 iamperfection wrote: It means i got me eye on you google is kind of usefull. Although calgar's premise is wrong. I think a mafia member is more likely to put much more thought into their posts then a non mafia member. From my 1 game of experience in which i played more of a lurker role as a mafia member the other 2 members put a ton of thought and effort into their posts. Even as going as far as having the coach review their posts before posting them to see what they thought. You are by far looking the more sucpicious right now. The accusation on tube is telling to me. After the heat on you it seems you like you know want to set up a policy of lynching lurker or people that do one liners. Instead of drving the attention on one person it appears to me you are trying to get us looking at a whole group in order to confuse the town FOS Calgar Also, i think there is a possibility yourharry post was an attempt to get attention away from calgar smaller FOS on YourHarry 1st Paragraph: NO WAY CALGAR, FROM MY ONE GAME OF EXPERIENCE I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT SCUM DO ALL THE TIME! 2nd Paragraph: The accusation on tube is based on the fact that tube denounced lurking and proceeded to lurk. iamperfection blows it up to look like its a big policy against lurkers when it is in fact a FoS on what calgar noted as scummy behavior. Illogical conclusions and a failure to read the thread OR an attempt to cast weak and early game suspicion when it is unlikely to stick to the players. Our goal is to win............ I dont care if someone walks in with a t shirt with im scum plasterd on the front of it we lynch SCUM. I haven't really taken the chance to address this post, which has been brought up multiple (twice at least) times. My post was written in the context of discussing meta analysis, not policy voting. A scummy meta does not mean its okay to post in a scummy fashion to me, and someone who argues that it's okay because its what they've always done should be trying to improve their play by eliminating scummy behavior from it as best as they can. + Show Spoiler + On July 17 2012 13:30 iamperfection wrote: If its as good as your explanation from Newbie Mini Mafia XIX please dont bring it up. All you will manage to do is confuse yourself and everybody else. No lynch will allow the mafia to spread their vote and hide and would probally make it harder for blues to make better plays. Leave the math out no lynch = bad leave it at that. The perfect one would never sacrifice a mafia member. Also this is a mini mafia it would be very risky to throw a mafia member out. Also i dont believe i said anything about a sacrifical lamb strategy i said yourharry was trying to get heat of calgar by throwing a vote out there to take off heat from calgar. I dont know where you came up with this grand conspiracy of a sacrfical lamb from my post. And two can play at this game calgar i still got my eye on you. The perfect one would never sacrifice a mafia member. Because he's so trustworthy after an approximate 2 posts (its hard to keep track some times) Oh btw, he never said anything about bussing his teammate so WHY would you ever suspect him of something like that. How dare you make a read using your own observational skills? To be fair, it was a far-fetched theory, but iamperfection behaves like he is above suspicion regardless of what he does or says. Nevertheless, he still "has his eye" on calgar. After calgar had posted this post: + Show Spoiler + On July 17 2012 06:24 calgar wrote: I’d like to make two points. One – I agree that tube has graced us with terrible posts. It seems like he may not entirely understand the game. His post history outside the game is mostly similar one-liners with little effort so that seems to be his overall posting style. His behavior is decidedly anti-town as it stands. Two – Nice of you to grace us with a single post, iamperfection. I feel like this may have been somewhat buried so I’d like to bring it back to people’s attention. I want to call to attention poor logic and assumptions.Your logic: Hmm, so my premise about his anti-town behavior is wrong, based on your limited observations of being mafia last game? What?! First, that’s a terrible sample size. Second, it’s fallacious to assume that anything in your previous games has any relevance on how people will act in this one. Poor logic and mafia-like. What relevance does your specific last game have at all to our situation here? It looks like you just scanned my post quickly and attacked it as “trying to shift suspicion”. Did you even read it or consider what I meant? It seems like many others agree with me about his anti-town behavior. It seems you’re defending anti-town behavior of tube here. Why are you suggesting that I have some grand strategy of people to lynch? It looks to me like I made one very specific post about a single player. Yet I have plans of setting up a lynching policy to "confuse the town". Putting words into my mouth - very suspicious. Your post strikes me as if you were mafia and were planning how to enter the game late. You decided to jump onto someone’s reasoning bandwagon to try and avoid attention. Why do I say this? You make no effort in original thought. To me it looks like you scanned the thread, looked at who had been attacked, and said “Oh yeah I agree, FOS on the same two guys as jingle”. iamperfection never really responded. AND CALGAR NEVER BROUGHT IT UP AGAIN, DESPITE HIS PROMISES TO GET IAMPERFECTION LYNCHED + Show Spoiler + On July 17 2012 22:36 iamperfection wrote: Isnt posting meaningless lists about every one in the game a way that mafia try to do to buy town cred. By being non commital you are trying to keep you options open so nothing can be used against you later. In fact the first guide that is posted in this thread states that what you just did is something scum do to try and hide. Why would a townie try and do something like that. I would say you are reading a diffrent section of the guide. ## Vote Obvious.660 Pulls one read based on Obvious (Who flipped town) blatantly contradicting a newbie guide. HE MUST BE SCUM! (I will note that I made a similar read, but the point still stands, voters for Obvious' mislynch are inherently suspicious based on the flip, WIFOM or not) I remove my FOS calgar I dont think a scum player would just outright vote for me after i acussed them. And if anyone elses wants to come after the perfect one i say bring it. WAT? iamperfection still knows precisely what scum do all the time, thus he no longer needs to be suspicious of calgar. There is the bare minimum in terms of the amount of effort going into that deduction. iamperfection + Show Spoiler + On July 18 2012 10:32 iamperfection wrote: Some food for thought while we enter the terrors that are the night. Why would i knowingly put myself under so much heat. When i Voted for obvious their was one exactly one vote for him. If i was mafia i could posted lip service comments to try and hid but i diddnt i put a claim out there and i think its going to lead to some information. The bandwagon on obvious happened after me. The mafia have the information advantage and if they wanted to risk it they could have not voted for obvious at all if they so desired. I will be able to work on this tommorow morning and i will post before the deadline what i think happened. Hypothetical bullshit, followed by the bolded. That could also read as "I started the bandwagon on Obvious". Getting your vote off of Obvious later on does not remove this idea from play if you consider you were the second/third (depending on how you read it) vote on Obvious.660. + Show Spoiler + MY RESPONSES ARE ITALICIZED On July 18 2012 22:50 iamperfection wrote: There have been posts that havemade me greatly question the motivation of some of the players. What is your goal jingle? Do you want to win or do you want to be just justfied in your reasoning for when you get lynches. What purpose does this comment make? Well if perfection flips town he deserved it so dont look at me it was his fault not mine. Our goal is to win not to look good in our reasoning. It dosent matter if your reasoning is solid it has to be right. The goal would have been to get you to defend yourself. Also, if your reasoning is terrible, you won't be able to convince anyone of anything. I brought this up before but its worth revisiting. The mafia know what they and their other members are doing. When you set up these policies that say look thig guy is lurking thats scummy so he must be scum you give the mafia the grounds to rig the game. Let kill this guy because hes lurking is exactly what they want. Look past the obvious of the obvious killing what did i gain from it which would improve my scum position. There seems to be a lot less heat on people who were will nilly with their votes than their is on me who made a read and stuck with it. Once again, taken out of context. My post was directed at the meta discussions, NOT lurker policy lynching Lets take it further. When i was scum in http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347856&user=149300 as a mafia member i felt more pressure to post so what came out was mostly fluff and and just trying to be confusing by twisting peoples logic. Our strategy for that game was that i would basically lurk while the other two would lead the discussion and the charge. In my posts i was wishy washy and non commital to make the apperance of just a bad newbie. In this game i took a definite stand and have not been wishy washy i made clear my fos and was clear on why i voted and didnt backtrack. If i knew obvious was not town why would i put myself in such a precarious position i could have just let others lead the charge and in fact i was the first person to call out obvious when i made that stupid list. WHEN I WAS SCUM YADDA YADDA YADDA. Now if weather or not you believe me where do we stand who do we go after if im town. These are some of th posts that stuck out to me. Word like leaning scum or my gut tells me is not being commital. This post appears to me to be a way in order to buy town cred because you are a mafia member and know that obvious is going to flip town so you try to come across as oh i dont know this isnt my idead and then vote for him anyways. And this once again this isnt my idead you guys came up with the point not me so non commital becasue he dosent want the obvious lynch to come back on him. I also fully believe that at least one mafia member is probally talking a lot. When mafia have a good voice in town they can help steer the talk in a way that benfits them. My goal for the rest of the day is to find the mafia member that is being very active and talking a lot. If i find something i will post before the deadline. My goal is to make empty promises that I can just respond with "I dunno" if I get called out + Show Spoiler + On July 18 2012 23:59 iamperfection wrote: So what are you suggesting that there isnt an active mafia member that anyone that does some lurking can and is mafia. Guess what a mafia member wants to appears as a townie at all costs from the early on the who population of the thread have basically stated that lurking is bad it is only natural to think that there is a mafia member that is active. Also dont twist my words i never said that i was supicious of jingle and hopeless i said i question on what they were trying to accomplish. I feel like their goal was to appear to the mafia community that "im a good player my logic will be sound if i lynch some one and they are a townie it must be their fault for being a bad townie". 1st paragraph is a steaming pile of garbage. I mean WIFOM. Manages to completely disregard Hapa's problems with making a read and using FoS or Votes or something. And also in the second paragraph, did he just not read the post he quoted? My name is not there at all, Fulla's is. This could just be careless, but its like hes trying to muck up his filter or something + Show Spoiler + On July 19 2012 04:32 iamperfection wrote: So you want me to throw out fingers of suspicon that really would serve no purpose other than to be used against me later. What purpose would fos serve the game will change in a few hours and as town the very little information we get come from the result of the night actions. Why be pigenholed now during the night. Its the same reason calgar is upset that jinglehell is trying to make a final be all decesion on who vig should kill. Also you didnt answer the question. my position on obvious was by far the worse i can do nothing to change on what i posted on day 1. Why wouldnt i just make a throwaway vote and semi bandwagon later on sombody else with less votes if i was a lurking mafia? If iamperfection FoS's anyone, it means we'll use it against him later according to him. Why is this not viewed as a huge red flag of anti-town behavior. Honestly, this entire post sounds stupid to me. The last few posts are all riddled with WIFOM and also a request for someone else to tell him why he looks scummy after he should have some clear indications as to why that is already. He did have this gem: iamperfection: So im gonna ask you what are your thoughts on my situation on day 1. No one has yet to give me a good answer on this. In what way did i benefit from the kill in my regards if im a scum palyer? Uhh...you would have managed a mislynch? The simplest answer ever and you can't figure it out? Gawd you're a scummy guy. You and calgar. I'm tired. | ||
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On July 19 2012 12:43 Hapahauli wrote: Oh there are two more important points that I missed: Regarding the "vigi hit" proposed by Calgar - The point about him disagreeing with Jingle and then agreeing with me is certainly "inconsistent," but where's the mafia motive? On him "trying" to get Obvious.660 Lynched - at that point, it was pretty much a hopeless cause. The votecout was 6 to 3, and swinging two votes given the town's general attitude seemed impossible, especially without any help (since I was gone catching a train). Regarding him "implying" suspicion Jingle then calling him strong townie read - Again, this seems more reckless than mafia-oriented. It looks like he was upset at Jingle's play rather than implying suspicion. There would be no reason for mafia to call Jingle a strong townie. It doesn't make sense. Vigi hit: The mafia motive is to very weakly bus iamperfection, assuming they are both scum, while casting suspicion on Jingle and hoping to turn to you later to support him. The bus is the primary motive here to me. Trying to Lynch Iamperfection: It WAS NOT completely hopeless at that point. The vote count never changed until after he'd made his statement that he was having a hard time defending Obvious.660 and gave up trying. - You switched vote to iamperfection --> Obvious 5, iamperfection 2 - Calgar joins your vote --> Obvious 5, iamperfection 3 - Calgar half asses his defense of Obvious and fails to push for iamperfection in any meaningful manner (I know he has a lack of posts to analyze and make a case with, but there was essentially nothing done other than rehash the fact that he looks scummy without adding anything new) - Fulla drops what could have been considered the hammer vote (plurality so not exactly, but whatever) At THIS point it is inevitable. Calgar had just about conceded his position two posts PRIOR to Fulla's vote. Implying suspicion: There isn't a good reason for him to call Jingle town AND imply that he is being scummy. Calgar has seemingly done both, in that order. Though he maintains that Jingle is a town read, his 'elephant on piano keys' post details how Jingle's actions are scummier than calgar's, BUT Jingle is still a town read. This does not make sense to me and I considered that post to be riddled with scummy behavior. And now I sleep. Sweet sweet sleep... | ||
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@Fulla: This is not worth the time right now. Someone else read his case and my filter and if you think there's a case that we need to discuss today, I'll make a defense. Otherwise, I will defend myself after the lynch. | ||
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On July 20 2012 00:01 JingleHell wrote: Remember, Hopeless, you seemed to like my case against Calgar. I'm not guaranteeing that Hapa is scum. What I am doing is saying that if Calgar is scum, Hapa may well be scum too. This just provides a chunk of evidence that isn't in how I read a post. Although you calling it so visible seems to really hurt Hapa's comment about scum may or may not have seen it, wouldn't you agree? I still agree with your case, I'm just pointing out that if the scum actually picked up on the breadcrumb and considered taking out Hapa, why would they NOT consider you seeing as you have a blue role. Your underlying suspicions have significantly less merit if you flip blue because the kill will be seen more as a rolehunt instead of killing to cripple towns analysis potential. If Hapa wants to suggest that scum aren't looking for blue roles, let him. Any number of things MAY have happened, but I still expect 1 of 3 scum to have picked up on it and point it out in the QT. I'll eat my hat if its not in the QT at the end of the game. and if you scum bastards edit it out of the QT afterwards, I hate you @Hapa, if scum did see it and didn't shoot Jingle then WIFOM. That's all the reasoning I need to explain why scum might have done something. If that doesn't fly with you, then this is going to fall on deaf ears no matter what I say. You're usually the one pushing for mafia-oriented motives, and keeping a vocal townie who has made the wrong reads is very valuable to scum. However, only the scum know whether our reads are correct. They have the information and the opportunity to manipulate us using it. Vote: iamperfection I want to see calgar's conviction to stay alive here. Let's see you either convince Jingle of your innocence or iamperfection's scumminess. OTHERWISE I'M VOTING FOR CALGAR. Seriously, I plan to sheep Jingle today regarding the decision on voting for calgar. If Jingle removes his vote, I'll learn to think for myself again. There is too much suspicious dialogue between Jingle, Hapa and calgar for me to make a good read, and I believe Jingle's breadcrumb, so he's the one I'm going to follow. | ||
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On July 20 2012 05:43 calgar wrote: You aren't going to decide for yourself who to lynch D2? This is what the game is all about, it's the crux; why are you playing? Let's put all the complicated theories aside for a second. Have I managed to help the town at all with any of my actions. Has iamperfection helped the town with any of his actions? Who would you lynch of the two if one has and one hasn't? I'm going to put faith into my town read of Jingle and rely on his reaction to your (lack of) defense to determine whether or not I vote for you. I'm giving you multiple ways to get out of being voted. Either push for iamperfection's lynch properly, or post a legitimate defense. Based on my reads, I think iamperfection looks scummier, BUT I also believe that Jingle's breadcrumb is legit and that he is committed to his vote against you. If you cannot convince him to Unvote you, I'm comfortable switching my vote to you, and I'm making this as plain as I possibly can. There is no subterfuge or hidden meanings. Get yourself Unvoted by Jingle or I will vote for you calgar. If you don't think I'm playing the game, I completely disagree. I'm sheeping my town read instead of pushing my scum read. I don't think that's anti-town, as I've made my input on both cases and still have the opportunity to add more later. Its still a play using the information contained within this thread and I still had to make my own decision to commit to this course of action. I've laid out my reasoning that I might switch votes very early and shown the precise event that would cause me to switch. If the town finds my reasoning invalid, I expect to hear about it, and I am ready to defend my actions further if required. Laying aside the complicated theories, WIFOM. Present a defense you lazy bastard or you don't get any more prune juice. | ||
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Why are you playing? | ||
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On July 20 2012 08:25 Fulla wrote: I've scanned both your filters, where is this JK coded message? Are you looking for Jingle's or calgar's? I'm still waiting for calgars. | ||
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On July 20 2012 23:04 calgar wrote: @hopeless You said you wanted me to make a case. What is your read now that you have read my huge explanation? I've read through the responses you have and the biggest thing is you got Jingle to move his vote off you. At present, I am still reading into the case on YourHarry as I have yet to go through his filter. For who I'd want to lynch, coming after you is probably not going to happen until after iamperfection at this point in time since Hapah and Jingle seem to agree that you aren't the scummiest read right now. Your tone has drastically changed and you are significantly less argumentative. As usual, this can be spun to look like scummy behavior, as with anything else. I initially found the timing of your breadcrumb and then calling Jingle out for his own breadcrumb a little off - Why reveal we have a blue role? - But since the mod clarified that you never even received a roleblock PM, this looks much better in your favor as his actions could have looked suspicious from your end. I'm satisfied that you've maintained a stance that iamperfection is your strongest scumread. To be honest, I still have my suspicions that you're both scum and are bussing one another, but iamperfection has a more obvious scum feel to his filter, by which I mean he contributes very little to town. I need to complete reading up on the case on YourHarry before I decide if I want to try to defend him in order to get iamperfection lynched today. Calgar, you're off the hook for now in my book. | ||
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@Jingle: YourHarry had backed off of attempting to get you voted very early, but continues to argue (poorly) and question the hows and whys that you claimed/breadcrumbed under. Taking out YourHarry gives us more information today as there is some discussion surrounding him to look at. drwiggl3s, muffa, tube and fulla are not very active and failed to provide significant reads for anything going on today, so there is much to pursue after the lynch. However, aside from the last 5 or 6 pages, the only other condemning evidence against YourHarry came primarily from Hapa concerning his day1 play. I think his arguments with you were stupid but ultimately I see two options: he's trying to get himself lynched or hes not thinking through the purpose of the discussion he's generated. I think YourHarry is just bad townie right now. In the event that YourHarry is lynched, I don't see a solid target to go after tomorrow no matter what he flips. If iamperfection is lynched and flips town, that's almost an autolynch on calgar. If drwiggl3s is lynched, I actually do think there is a good chance that he's scum based on the case you just made. I'm not convinced you can get the votes to back that decision, but its looking better by the minute. Between the three of iamperfection, YourHarry and drwiggl3s, in what order would you lynch them? I'd rather pile votes onto iamperfection or drwiggl3s as soon as possible so that they're lynched in the event of a tie. ##Unvote ##Vote: drwiggl3s | ||
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You didn't even have any actions to make a read on. You're 'case' on me comes down to the fact that I voted for you, but have scarcely given me the opportunity to explain why I voted for you and whether I still think you're scummy. For the record I don't know what to think about you, but I've got a lot of scum reads and even more null reads on lurkers. There are other things to address without getting into things with you right now. If you want to take a swing, I think its best left for tonight unless you have a solid enough case to stack 5 votes on me within 3 hours. | ||
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I'll be back in around a half hour or so. | ||
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wiggles, regardless of what you flip, it does not help the town to attack Jingle's motives as potentially scummy if your still going to sheep his decision today. Either you agree with the lynch or you don't. If you disagree with Jingle, you don't vote for who he is voting for. If you do agree, you are at least as accountable as he is. | ||
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On July 21 2012 08:40 JingleHell wrote: So, am I still all stubborn and reckless? <3 Oh hell yes you are, just in a townie fashion. :D | ||
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On July 21 2012 09:14 calgar wrote: A summary of drwiggl3s filter. Tried to hit the highlights - it's not too long though so everyone should dig back through it. The last page is mostly worthless arguing. + Show Spoiler + Early on, tube points FOS on him. On July 17 2012 05:54 tube wrote: drwiggl3s your first post is you jumping on the (completely pointless) JingleHell mini-bandwagon against me and then going on to say that not posting content-heavily means im trying to "fit in" which i wouldnt otherwise try to do as town if thats your first and only read so far the only person i have a read on is you Accuses jingle of a scumslip. On July 17 2012 06:02 drwiggl3s wrote: Is this.. a scum slip? You should always go for mafia. Lynching someone for being bad-town is a mistake. This is a noobie game after all. Points finger to obvious.660 (Town) and also tube On July 18 2012 03:36 drwiggl3s wrote: Deadline is soon approaching and we still aren't at a consensus. Currently I think both tube and Obvious can be seen as scum. But the meta switch by tube (where he all of a sudden changed his tone, style, writing) seemed way too coached to have been his own doing. A vote against Obviousis a decent one, but I gotta go with my gut here and think tube is the more "obvious" scum player.. Unless I can pull more reasoning out of why Obvious is mafia, I'll leave my vote where it is now. ##tube Throws FOS onto obvious.660 (Town) and YourHarry. On July 18 2012 05:09 drwiggl3s wrote: But I'll throw my FOS onto Obvious and Harry right now. Seems like there's too much panicing going on in this thread. Gives me a good feeling mafia is scrambling right now. And that gives me a good feeling one of these 3 are definitely mafia. He backtracks on the obvious.660 vote to cover his ass as he knows its going to flip Town On July 18 2012 05:51 drwiggl3s wrote: Don't you think if he was really mafia.. He'd be here defending himself? is the case against him SO STRONG that he sees it as an imovable mountain that can never be overcome? If obvious was really mafia his scum buddies would be pressuring him to post. They would be defending him, or trying to push lynches even harder onto other players. The fact that he hasn't posted to defend himself, the fact that no one is strongly defending him, tells me that he's probably not mafia. Conjecture as to me or iamperfection being mafia and WIFOM On July 20 2012 03:34 drwiggl3s wrote: I'm sorry Jingle but I really missed your breadcrumb as well and I've been steadily reading this thread.. so I'm not sure even with 3 mafia members that any of them actually caught it. And if they did, I don't agree with your speculations either. Throughout D1 and N1 you and Hap were arguing 50% of the time and spamming up the thread against each others post. Not saying this because you're both mafia, but it's definitely doing mafia's job for them. This is why I think neither of you were NK'ed. As for Calgar, he was harsh pushing for iamperfection. Perhaps iamperfection is town and so mafia were happy to just let Calgar continue his case into D2? Or perhaps Calgar is the "obviously town acting" mafia scum you were talking about. Either way, Mafia killed Evul. A lurker, who was going to be replaced. Netting us literally 0 information we can use, other than WIFOM. For my reads right now, I wouldn't mind testing the waters with a Calgar lynch. Getting one of the major players out of the way and see what he flips. This could tell us a lot about iamperfection as well as others who are resistant (or soft defending) a Calgar lynch. He starts to lay the groundwork for himself to look good after a mislynch of Harry On July 21 2012 02:44 drwiggl3s wrote: So basically your saying no real information comes out of a YourHarry lynch. We're shooting for a mafia and if we miss we're back to square one? I'm just asking because I'm trying to link things together. Trying to see what we can pull out of this lynch should it be successful or not.. And I can't really see anything. I don’t think much beyond this is very useful since he’s trying to defend himself by arguing with jingle. His most coherent argument post is here: On July 21 2012 05:23 drwiggl3s wrote: + Show Spoiler + On July 21 2012 04:29 JingleHell wrote: Since the beginning, drwiggl3s has lurked. Scummy. He's showed up in controversial moments to give us great pearls of wisdom. Like these. Truly food for thought. Day 1, he voted for Tube well after that dust had cleared. He visibly disassociated himself from the Obvious mislynch, which he seems to be capitalizing on now. Here, he makes a scummy statement about killing Calgar purely for the information. And now his recent posting binge. Asking great questions, like what kind of info people might be able to glean from current situations once they resolve. And generally setting things up so that no matter how Harry flips, he's in a good position. Thoughts? I'll be responding to the above case in points. 1) The "Pearls of Wisdom". Those were day 1 posts. I was trying to encourage others to talk, and to be helpful. There it's clear when I responded to Fulla's question regarding how often mafia actually get lynched day 1. The first post you quoted against tube was me trying to be constructive. Instead of calling him out for his scum slip saying that he "just felt like posting" I tried to explain why this makes him look scummy to us. And I encouraged him to share some reads with us to get more information out of him. Just because I don't post as much as you do doesn't mean I don't actively think out my posts and try to figure out what reaction I can expect from a player. So yes they are "Food for though" despite not spamming up an entire page like you need to. 2) I've already made it clear that I was tunnelling onto tube for his change of play style. I told you that I think people's reactions are a better determining factor of their alignment than their posting. I thought that tube was a better lynch due to his big change in play style once the heat was on. This over obvious who made some controversially possibly scum posts. Despite this being newbie mafia, I believe the mafia are still competent enough to not make obvious scum slips. And that it's only town (who naturally don't feel a sense of worry or guilt as much as mafia) to post more freely and make these "slips" you are even accusing me of. 3) My post on Calgar was to state I support his lynch. I however didn't follow it with a vote as their were already votes on him (I'll explain in next sentences). My reasoning for this was it was early in the day, and I wanted to see who came out of the woodwork to defend Calgar. For example, I was looking to see if a lurker came out to defend him with some off the wall case, or if someone else really tried pushing for someone else. The reason I didn't vote for him immediately was I didn't want it to seem that it was impossible to save him. If that was the case than a lurker who is mafia might not risk the exposure to save someone who is already likely to be lynched. 4) As far as "setting" stuff up goes. I wanted to make it clear that I am suspicious of you and that I was going for a Harry lynch not because I fully believe in the case against him, but because I think it'll shed light on the most active players in this game. Namely you. If he flipped town I was going to make a case on you D3 if you ended up as a "confirmed jailer" and yet STILL alive after N2. That was the point I was trying to make. I wasn't setting myself up to "look good" or trying to kill a confirmed townie. I was just saying that if you lead the lynch on a townie, you should be held at least somewhat accountable. And IF you survived N2 as a confirmed town / jailer, it'd make me VERY suspicious if that is your actual alignment. I hope this is satisfactory. But I'm up for follow up questions or anything else. Kkkaaaaayyy. So what, you want a cookie? I know how the filter button works. What does this information give us? I'm going through the filter to see what townies I can identify and I intend on posting my reads before I go to bed. Looks like I'm going to be giving you another look when I wake up tomorrow calgar. | ||
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Jingle, as we already know, has claimed Jailer through a breadcrumb. Wiggles spent a great deal of time trying to make it so that Jingle would look suspicious in the event YourHarry flipped town. EVEN IF this was a setup for a bus tomorrow for any reason, it must assume that YourHarry is town which wiggles would know. The other way around (YourHarry flips scum) doesn't really set wiggles up well and only reinforces Jingle's position as town shepherd. Once again, even if Jingle is scum, I find this to be a useless maneuver for scum to make when YourHarry was already looking like a good mislynch. Therefore, I draw the conclusion that YourHarry must be town. Day 1, wiggles was pushing tube as his scum read. I sincerely doubt he would have tried to bus that early in the game. This is a much weaker conclusion, but the case on tube seemed like a legitimate attempt to get him lynched. I'm not 100% convinced that tube is town, but he's now going to be one of the last players I consider as a potential scum. With this information, scum are going to most likely target one of the three players above since a 'confirmed' townie is the most dangerous to scum, perhaps with the exception of a blue role that they might be hunting. Jingle is practically a confirmed blue and is at most danger of being shot due to his activity in the thread. For reference, the remaining players alive who I do not consider to be confirmed (or as goddamn close to confirmed as is possible without flipping): + Show Spoiler + Hopeless1der calgar Hapahauli mufaa iamperfection Fulla The 2 remaining scum should be in that list unless I made a huge misread regarding tube. | ||
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Can scum KP be roleblocked? Because that's probably your only way to survive until tomorrow Jingle. | ||
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On July 21 2012 23:29 Hapahauli wrote: @ Hopeless1der - Good analysis, I have some commentary below regarding some of your conclusions. Agree on Jingle/YourHarry being guarenteed townies, however, I severely disagree with you on Tube. While wiggles did build a case on Tube, its important to note the timing and situation in which he did so. Wiggles votes for Tube when the bandwagon train is firmly on Obvious.660 (3 votes for obvious, vs 1 vote for a bunch of other people) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351398¤tpage=22#423 They then get into an "argument" when Obvious.660 is set to lynch. After the night, drwiggl3s never mentions Tube again, even after grilling him for so long. This points to the "argument" being staged in a safe situation for both mafia. But the most incriminating evidence against Tube is his D2 vote and his complete lack of posting on D2. Tube was willing to post plently on N1, then immediately got quiet when suspicion was flying around Calgar and YourHarry. Furthermore, he comes in right when Jingle points out drwiggl3s scumslip and bandwagon votes iamperfection. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351398¤tpage=44#870 <--- the vote, be sure to read the context around it Hapa, you make a good point about wiggles dropping the case after day1. However, I disagree with your point about the specific timing of wiggles' vote. I dont think it was 'firmly' set on Obvious. The votecount following wiggles' vote is: + Show Spoiler + On July 18 2012 05:43 Acrofales wrote: V V V V VOTE COUNT!!! Obvious.660 (4): Tube (3): YourHarry (2): Fulla (1): Hopeless1der iamperfection (1): JingleHell (0): Not yet voted: Fulla Obvious.660 set to be lynched You have about 2 1/4 hours till the deadline. Please use the correct format for voting, including ##s and unvotes when needed. Wrong votes will not be found by cntrl-f + Show Spoiler [previous count] + On July 18 2012 01:56 Acrofales wrote: V V V V VOTE COUNT!!! Obvious.660 (3): Tube (1): Fulla (1): Hopeless1der iamperfection (1): calgar YourHarry (1): Not yet voted: Fulla, Mufaa, drwiggl3s, YourHarry, Evulrabbitz You have about 6 hours till the deadline. + Show Spoiler [previous count] + On July 17 2012 14:55 Probulous wrote: Vote Count Obvious.660 (2): YourHarry, JingleHell Tube (1): YourHarry (0): You have about 17 hours till the deadline. The votecount at deadline: + Show Spoiler + On July 18 2012 07:31 Probulous wrote: Vote Count Obvious.660 (6): Tube (2): YourHarry (0): Fulla (1): Hopeless1der iamperfection (3): JingleHell (0): Obvious.660 set to be lynched + Show Spoiler [Previous Vote Count] + On July 18 2012 05:43 Acrofales wrote: V V V V VOTE COUNT!!! Obvious.660 (4): Tube (3): YourHarry (2): Fulla (1): Hopeless1der iamperfection (1): JingleHell (0): Not yet voted: Fulla Obvious.660 set to be lynched You have about 2 1/4 hours till the deadline. Please use the correct format for voting, including ##s and unvotes when needed. Wrong votes will not be found by cntrl-f + Show Spoiler [previous count] + V V V V VOTE COUNT!!! Obvious.660 (3): Tube (1): Fulla (1): Hopeless1der iamperfection (1): calgar YourHarry (1): Not yet voted: Fulla, Mufaa, drwiggl3s, YourHarry, Evulrabbitz You have about 6 hours till the deadline. + Show Spoiler [previous count] + On July 17 2012 14:55 Probulous wrote: Vote Count Obvious.660 (2): YourHarry, JingleHell Tube (1): YourHarry (0): You have about 17 hours till the deadline. There was still ample opportunity to get tube lynched and wiggles did make some effort to do so. Tube's posting history is most certainly against him, but I still think he is town.By no means do I expect this to change your mind, but I want it made clear that I think tube is town and I am not currently willing to push for his lynch. I went through calgar's filter, and I especially took notice of his case against iamperfection. Looking at the way the votes fell, I think Hapa and calgar might have had the right idea day1 voting for iamperfection. At the end of day1: Jingle, Harry, Evul are all voting for Obvious' lynch and are pretty much confirmed townies. I think tube is also town, and Fulla doesn't read scum. which leaves iamperfection. (This all goes out the window when you consider tube or fulla being mafia, which at present I do not) Calgar, I'm reading you as town now. I don't like the way you side with Hapa but not Jingle during N1, but I think thats the remnants of the Day1 'wait and see' business so I'm not going to count that against you. I agree with your earlier case that iamperfection is scum: On July 20 2012 07:19 calgar wrote: Here’s my case: + Show Spoiler + Let’s go back to iamperfection who I called out very early. I brought his case up before anyone else, as a matter of fact. If it’s such an obvious case then why was I the first to bring it up? I’d also like to remind you that a confirmed townie was suspicious of him. This is one of the reasons I thought obvious was innocent. Do me a favor and re-read my initial argument: On July 17 2012 06:24 calgar wrote: Two – Nice of you to grace us with a single post, iamperfection. I feel like this may have been somewhat buried so I’d like to bring it back to people’s attention. I want to call to attention poor logic and assumptions.Your logic: Hmm, so my premise about his anti-town behavior is wrong, based on your limited observations of being mafia last game? What?! First, that’s a terrible sample size. Second, it’s fallacious to assume that anything in your previous games has any relevance on how people will act in this one. Poor logic and mafia-like. What relevance does your specific last game have at all to our situation here? It looks like you just scanned my post quickly and attacked it as “trying to shift suspicion”. Did you even read it or consider what I meant? It seems like many others agree with me about his anti-town behavior. It seems you’re defending anti-town behavior of tube here. Why are you suggesting that I have some grand strategy of people to lynch? It looks to me like I made one very specific post about a single player. Yet I have plans of setting up a lynching policy to "confuse the town". Putting words into my mouth - very suspicious. Your post strikes me as if you were mafia and were planning how to enter the game late. You decided to jump onto someone’s reasoning bandwagon to try and avoid attention. Why do I say this? You make no effort in original thought. To me it looks like you scanned the thread, looked at who had been attacked, and said “Oh yeah I agree, FOS on the same two guys as jingle”. I think my case is straightforward and makes sense. Iamperfection has a habit of just jumping onto other people’s suspicions. It’s clear that he’s not even bothering to read the thread. He says neither I nor hapa have made arguments as a reason for us to be suspicious. We both, in fact, do. It’s like he’s playing a different game or all the arguments and evidence is just flying over his head. He then backs off of me after I vote him to avoid a confrontation. Now he’s back at it, tagging onto me with no reasoning. Look at this quote: On July 20 2012 01:24 iamperfection wrote: He bandwagons with jingle again. His second and third sentences are logically disconnected. What does the issue of whether or not mafia picked up on the breadcrumb have to do with how risky it is for jingle to lie? His play is so careless. It's fact that I've challenged people in the thread to talk more. iamperfection has never done this. Why does it seem that I am the only one that feels strongly about this?Jingles claim looks legitamate to me. I'm not buying any crap that jingle should be dead because he bread crumbed. It would be so risky for jingle to lie and hell this is newbie mafia i didnt spot the bread crumb and im sure a lot of players didnt spot it. I think perf is very likely mafia. Even if you think I'm a bit suspicious, I knew jingle was JK so you're saying that mafia knew of the JK and didn't shoot. Why would mafia ever pass up such an easy blue? It looks like the mafia may have missed the breadcrumb. iamperfection missed it and I think he’s mafia. Is this not plausible? Lynch him first – you can always come back to me with more information. However, I've come to that conclusion using a read that conflicts with your own (that tube is or isnt town). I'd like to get some more posts from both tube and iamperfection to confirm our reads, but I am most comfortable pushing for iamperfection's lynch tomorrow. Most recently, iamperfection voices his concern that YourHarry is probably a bad idea, but doesn't switch his vote until after Jingle has moved on. It could very well be that he was scared of drawing attention, or he could be hiding behind Jingle's town cred. I see either action as being scum than being town. He made no pro-active effort to save YourHarry, and I count that against him. | ||
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In any case, he's not confirmed. If you develop a strong case on him I will absolutely consider it. @iamperfection: Jingle was clearly town. You are not clearly town, and leaving a vote on YourHarry makes you look scummier as you'll have been on both mislynches in that case. In addition, you were in the company of Jingle and Hapa - who started the case on YourHarry. You made your vote to "make us happy" in the first place. It just doesn't look good. In the event of a mislynch, you're the one I'm going to suspect most. Overall you haven't done much for town. You're scummier to me than tube, or anyone else in the game right now. I don't think pursuing your lynch is a waste of time at all. It should generate some discussion and hopefully confirm some reads going into the next day, even if we end up lynching someone else. The burden is now on you to prove your towniness. And finally, Good luck at the casino. | ||
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On July 22 2012 03:26 YourHarry wrote: I was dead wrong about JingleHell. He is CONFIRMED TOWNIE. But in my defense, even though I didn't buy his claim, I also did express my reservation on why JingleHell is not a good lynch, at least not yesterday. And my suspicion mostly came from not believing that he did not know vanilla townies get roleblocked. Of course, after what happened with drwiggle, I want to almost COMPLETELY withdraw any suspicion I had with Jingle. Okay. Now help us find more scum or identify more townies. What is your take on my read of tube being townie? | ||
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On July 22 2012 08:30 Fulla wrote: I've been accused/questioned, so I've written a defense but no answers. So first off why am I suspicious? Tell me what you want me to answer and I can help. It would help if I wasn't ignored Also, so how many blue roles usually are there? We can pretty much assume there's no medic, is there usually 3 thou. So we might have a vigi to help? @Fulla: First off, on the blue roles: From what I've read, on TL newbie games are in general mafia favoured for one reason or another. Some hosts may attempt to give the town more blue roles to even the odds so to speak. That said, I haven't got a clue what a reasonable set up might be as I haven't played enough. I'd look into old Newbie Mini Mafia games for reference. As to why you're suspicious: When you were discussing the lynch on tube, you explained your reasoning such that if someone had a statistic that we pretty much wouldn't have, we could avoid lynching him. There is far more to making a scum read than just the number or length of a post. Your contributions were weak and in general not helpful in hunting scum. When you addressed Obvious, you came to the conclusion that alot of the reasoning used to vote for him seemed flawed, but you ended up voting for him anyways without really contributing anything to the discussion. I get that you may not have has a strong read one way or another, but the failure to weigh in on the discussions and sit by the sidelines while the town does all the work makes you look bad. Your vote day 1: + Show Spoiler + On July 18 2012 07:10 Fulla wrote: Where the hell is obvious? Sigh.. It seems it's all down to me, I hate it when this happens. Let obvious be lynched or vote tube and force a no lynch. Good point, I overlooked that. Let's see what he flips then. ## Vote Obvious.660 Completely untrue based on the lynch mechanics used this game. In no way could there have been a no lynch unless every single person voted for a no lynch. The fact that you didn't know this isn't necessarily scummy, but it makes you a liability because if you don't even understand the rules of the game, what confidence is there going to be in your reads when the thread is 50 pages long? I'm past the point of wanting to lynch someone for being bad town, as I think there is enough information to hunt scum, but earlier in the game, this type of behaviour might have stirred up a case on you if we lacked sufficient scum reads. Your vote day 2 (and my response to your case): + Show Spoiler + On July 19 2012 23:16 Fulla wrote: I screwed up the quoting, I meant to add, the part where he jumps in throws in more suspicion on Obvious, keeping it thriving, then try's to stay out of it and takes a stance that's he still going to vote me for lurking anyways. That to me is very scummy. ##Vote Hopeless1der When I threw my suspicion on Obvious I made it clear that I would be willing to vote him as well and that I supported his lynch. Your entire case on me is based primarily on the fact that I pressured you day 1. On July 19 2012 23:39 Fulla wrote: I actually had to look that up on google. So he votes me, I get angry and react voting him back? The point was: - He didn't contribute to other suspicions/discussions. - Kept on and on about how inactive I am. (other inactive players what about them?) Why so over the top? - Seems he REALLY wanted me in the spotlight with suspicion. - Still managed to come in and make sure obvious was lynched. - But try to stay out of it with me and his target. Is that not dodgy? - I absolutely contribute to other suspicions/discussions. - I kept on and on because I WANT YOU TO BE ACTIVE. If I started going after every lurker, I would not only be wasting my time, but I'd have looked like I just wanted to policy lynch all of the lurkers. This doesn't do anything towards hunting scum because lurkers don't give you any information. I focused on one player to try to get a more active town. - If you would have taken some time to be active and contribute some reads to the town, I would have gladly removed my vote and moved on. I don't think your posts have been very productive. - If I needed to switch my vote to secure Obvious' lynch, I would have done so. - Let's be clear. I was the only person to vote for you. No one else has considered this to be particularly scummy (yet?) I was not actively pushing for your lynch, I wanted some activity from you and voting for you seemed like it might light a fire under you. Unfortunately it didn't. My vote was for pressure only, and it never seemed necessary to switch it later in the day. It wouldn't have affected any of the votes, and I was happy at the time with Obvious' lynch. For the other parts of your case: When tube was being criticized, we spent almost 4 pages banging on that drum. It was getting old. Seriously, do you think I wasn't justified in suspecting you based on my observations? Shortly after my post tube picked up his posting and the discussion continued. When you re-appeared (Page 18), I responded to you 15 minutes later and never heard from you again. My question about your activity got answered when calgar brought it up again, but to me it looked like you were actively avoiding the fact that I was trying to call you out. When you returned the next time, my vote was already on you, but you never even addressed it. I'm pretty much convinced you didn't even notice at the time. If you had, why did you wait until the next freaking day to acknowledge it? I don't get how I can be seen as scummy based on my actions when you made absolutely no effort to confront me or defend yourself from my vote. You were never in any real danger anyways, but all of the sudden I'm scum because of it. When you call me out for creating an environment of suspicion, my focus at that point was tube, Obvious, and you. How does that constitute everyone? Your case doesn't make sense here. I wanted YOU to know how suspicious you are. If I'm the only one saying anything, clearly you don't see it. If multiple people call you on it, perhaps you'll be more inclined to contribute more to town. On July 19 2012 23:11 Fulla wrote: I was not the only 1 lurking, yet it had barely been a day and he wants everyone know how suspicious I am? OH LOOK OTHER LURKERS (see spoiler for more details)! On July 19 2012 23:11 Fulla wrote: + Show Spoiler + On July 18 2012 08:48 Hopeless1der wrote: Content notwithstanding, the following players are still on a 1 page filter: (Post count started from Day 1 post) Iamperfection: 3 posts Fulla: 5 posts Mufaa: 5 posts drwiggl3s: 14 posts Evulrabbitz: 7 posts Players from above who voted for Obvious.660: Iamperfection Evulrabbitz Fulla I'll be gone for a bit. Going to look into iamperfection when I return, because he looks scummiest of the players listed there. This to me reads, his scum buddies got Obvious lynched, but these instead wants these 3 lynched. Note that Evlrabbitz turned out town as well. It leads to believe iamperfection is in fact town as well. So, I decided that I had a scummier read than you that I wanted to look at and that makes HIM town? You're grasping at straws by this point trying to paint me as scum. Moving forward: Fulla if you still think I'm scum, I'd love to talk about it. In the meantime, I think you're town but doing a poor job of it. I don't plan to vote for you today. Please make a more thorough effort to read through the thread, identify things you find scummy and reasons you think they are scummy. The reasoning is in many cases the more important part of that equation as it is the part that convinces the rest of the town that your read is legit. Stand behind your decisions and play with conviction. If someone does something that you disagree with, make certain that they know that and why you feel that way. For example: On July 21 2012 04:43 Fulla wrote: I REALLY dislike how many votes Harry is getting it just makes me think of an exact bandwagon repeat of the obvious lynch. If he was scum I'd at least expect a struggle other scum trying to defend him or accuse others. Or if not scum jumping in and bussing him for town cred. As far as I know jingle is confirmed town? So I will just vote whatever he says. He's a much better player than me anyways. I'm at work so I can't contribute much this is from my mobile. I'll be back 30 min before deadline for a better read and vote. I still think my current vote is scum hopeless or hapless sorry I forgot? The guy trying to lynch me for nothing. But I'll back jingle. Last thing the eerie silence about Harry getting lynched makes me think mafia are just sitting back laughing letting it happen. Can we vote someone else please? You don't need permission to switch your vote. You made a correct read on YourHarry, but if Jingle hadn't jumped onto wiggles I don't think you would have switched your vote from Harry. You said yourself that you'd just vote whatever he says. Well to the town's great despair, he's gone now. What is your plan going forward? | ||
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On July 22 2012 08:23 calgar wrote: Alright townies, I’ll call it like I see it. Sorry to see you go jingle, we'll bag the rest for ya. @confirmed townies – I consider everyone besides iamperfection, tube, fulla, and speed to be more or less ‘confirmed’ as town. This is in varying degrees, of course, considering the fact that we're going on guesses based on our reasoning. I feel reasonably confident that there is enough info to make solid assumptions here in most of the cases. @direction – It’s difficult to say where to go now because the remaining players are a mix of inactivity and suspicious activity which is helping the mafia hide. I think all four of them have been generally inactive, some moreso than others. I assessed what tiny bit of mufaa’s old filter was there and the vague feel I got based off of it was town. Going off of what little that is, I’m inclined to put him/speedbump on hold and go towards the other three for now. IGMEOY iamperfection, tube, fulla I'll kick things off with this vote since it seems to be where hopeless and hapa are leaning towards also. ##Vote iamperfection [/gives calgar a cookie] I'm willing to get behind this vote, but calgar, I disagree with using the phrase 'confirmed' on most of us except YourHarry. Any one of us could be scum as far as I'm concerned. In the event that iamperfection flips town, I will consider you heavily implicated, despite the fact that you have played an active town role that has helped overall. You, me, Hapa, and speedbump are all candidates to be considered scum. I don't expect you to just believe me when I say I'M TOWN, I'M TOWN! I would have no trouble believing that you or Hapa were scum if you were to suddenly flip. I don't have a case because you've both exhibited very pro-town posting, but the possibility is always there, and you could be very good at looking pro-town. We're not confirmed yet, and I don't plan to forget it. I hope speedbump improves the lurker situation despite the time gap. The odds are in favour of him being town; I was also reading mufaa as town before he went afk on us. Again, as I've noted, I think tube is town. I'm also reading Fulla as town for now, despite his poor posting record. I don't find his voting particularly scummy. He thought he was securing a lynch day 1 instead of No-Lynching. He saw that wiggles was screwed day 2 and never moved his vote. I did a similar thing with voting day 1 that he did day 2. The only read of scum I have right now is iamperfection. ##Vote: iamperfection @Hapa My understanding of calgar's stance was that as long as Jingle is alive, iamperfection could be counted on to sheep him. The reluctance to wagon on Harry convinced calgar that this would be possible. Obviously that no longer applies, but I dont think his scum read of iamperfection ever went away, he was just ready and willing to lynch wiggles right then and there. | ||
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@Perfection, there are a couple things you've brought up. 1 is my "trap" set for calgar. I originally suspected you two of bussing from the start, especially after calgar neglected to really push for your lynch day1. 2 is your suspicion about tube attempting to get you lynched to save wiggles. He also neglected to really push for your lynch. My reads are now all screwed up because tube has not supported any of his actions with good reasoning or analysis. Up until tube posted: On July 23 2012 04:43 tube wrote: I said more than that. I was reading him as town, and you as scum. Even after reading your case I thought so, as I feel you're pressed into a corner and have nothing else to push for except for tube's lynch. Having read his post, the fact that he doesn't seem to take this very seriously is very suspicious and drives me to want to vote for him instead of you. I'm not ready to swap my vote over completely, but I am prepared to ##Unvote This is looking like its going to be "too easy" to get tube voted. I'm pretty much the only one who ever gave him a town read to begin with. Seeing his posting regress to his initial garbage version makes we want to get rid of him as he was thoroughly berated for his style of posting and doesnt seem to give a damn. However, that in itself doesn't seem that scummy to me because it shows he's distinctly NOT trying, which sucks for town but doesn't prove his affiliation to me. I don't want to be lynching someone for being bad-town on D3. If he doesn't provide anything useful my hands are probably going to be tied as perfection has at least tried to make himself useful to town. Tube has not. Speedbump, YourHarry, Fulla, if you'd be so kind as to weigh in here. Who looks scummier and which lynch gives us more to go on tomorrow? | ||
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I'm probably going to have some explaining to do either way tonight. What pushed me over the edge on tube was that I hadn't really considered the timing of his vote against iamperfection just before wiggles was being lynched (despite hapa clearly pointing it out). With YourHarry's analysis, and iamperfection fighting to keep the pressure on tube+ Show Spoiler + On July 23 2012 22:58 iamperfection wrote: its crap like this man it would have taken two seconds to go back and you would have seen i was the second vote on obcious. Also it was sure thing that drwiggle was going to be lynched when you voted for me? Try again go look back he had 0 votes when you voted for me. So unless you had the gift of foresight you couldnt have known and why would you lie about it now? Sorry that I didn't give too much yesterday. Currently at work so I may have a chance to catch up during lunch, otherwise I'll be back after the deadline. | ||
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Response to Calgar's Case On July 24 2012 12:12 calgar wrote: OK guys – here goes. I’ve looked through lots of filters and gotten nowhere. I referred back to XIX for inspiration and I went back through using this quote offered as advice at the end. With this idea in mind, I looked at who is positioning to look best after a mislynch. Positioning for after the mislynch will let them remind us how they are somehow “confirmed town”. They got their read right, so must be on our side. Since tube flipped town, mafia will try to position well for the mislynch. So I’m thinking – who of the 7 of us left voted and positioned to look best after the result? Only one person made any effort to justify their standing after the lynch. Yes, you hopeless. Not a chance. My entire stance since Jingle has died is that the only confirmed townie is YourHarry. Calgar, YOU were the one who spewed out 'confirmed townie'+ Show Spoiler + On July 22 2012 08:23 calgar wrote: Alright townies, I’ll call it like I see it. Sorry to see you go jingle, we'll bag the rest for ya. @confirmed townies – I consider everyone besides iamperfection, tube, fulla, and speed to be more or less ‘confirmed’ as town. This is in varying degrees, of course, considering the fact that we're going on guesses based on our reasoning. I feel reasonably confident that there is enough info to make solid assumptions here in most of the cases. @direction – It’s difficult to say where to go now because the remaining players are a mix of inactivity and suspicious activity which is helping the mafia hide. I think all four of them have been generally inactive, some moreso than others. I assessed what tiny bit of mufaa’s old filter was there and the vague feel I got based off of it was town. Going off of what little that is, I’m inclined to put him/speedbump on hold and go towards the other three for now. IGMEOY iamperfection, tube, fulla I'll kick things off with this vote since it seems to be where hopeless and hapa are leaning towards also. ##Vote iamperfection Further to ghost's quote, where are the LONG posts where I don't contribute anything? I think I've done a decent job of providing my reads and building cases when called upon. Responses to the quote below are italicized: On July 24 2012 12:12 calgar wrote: Think about this quote very carefully. What is he actually saying here? I’ve put in numbers and translated this post. 1-I think he’ll flip town. I’m the only one that thinks he’s town. 1a - I THOUGHT he'd flip town. I WAS the only one who THOUGHT he WAS town. Reads change. If that's scummy, then why aren't you still pushing iamperfection over me? 2-Here’s why you guys suspect him; here’s why I don’t. 2a- Here's why I'm still skeptical about voting for him, but I will acknowledge that he is behaving in a suspicious manner 3-I’m going to vote for him anyways. 3a- If he makes no effort to defend himself or contribute anything to town (Which he didn't and I voted for him as a result) Why is he reminding us that he is the only one who thinks he's town, when he's voting for him anyways? He gives reasoning why his opinion has decayed over time but neverthless he's trying to assert that he thinks tube is town. This is irrelevant because he is going to be killed anyways. The only thing your read could effect is our idea of you as a player afterwards. I was trying to explain WHY I changed my read so that THIS EXACT SITUATION could be avoided. Learn to understand the use of tenses to denote past, present and future thoughts or ideas. Everyone else thought tube was scum. I saw evidence that compelled me to agree and I adjusted my read accordingly. I explained my reasoning and followed through with my opinion as it changed. On July 24 2012 12:12 calgar wrote: Another point in the filter that demonstrates the same concept. While I was hoping that obvious was mafia, hopeless is trying to actively assert his innocence. I don’t think he’s in a necessarily suspicious position. He made his vote early and stuck on it and his vote wouldn’t have mattered. If he were town, he could have said something like “I had my read and I stuck to my guns… it was decided without me either way. I’m trying to pressure him to talk” I don’t think this would have been suspicious – he would be justified here in my opinion. What irks me is the fact that he brings it up. He is actively worried about what others are thinking of him, moreso than actually finding mafia. I think he is trying to confirm himself town, rather than actually hunt. If it wasn’t suspicious, then why is he trying to make himself even less suspicious when he wasn’t in the first place? He’s going to try and talk and squirm his way out but the actions can’t be taken back. Is his attitude focused on hunting or is it focused on asserting his innocence? I think it’s the latter. Why have we considered him town until now? One of the reasons I don’t agree with is that he (stupidly, if town) reminded us that there is no medic. I think that this move is bad for both town and mafia, though, and therefore not evidence of town. @Bolded: Actively tried to assert innocence AFTER I determined that I'd probably look scummy later. I WANT people to see the things I've done so that I get called out on it and get the opportunity to explain myself. The more you try to evoke a response from me, the more activity you get from me. The harder I get tunnelled, the more info to hunt scum is revealed after I die on the players who attacked me. I DON'T want to hide my actions. I explained what I saw and why I don't think my vote should be considered scummy the way it ended up at the end of Day 1. This is of course for the purpose of making myself 'look innocent' because the alternative is to let someone else bring it up and I look like I'm panicking to defend myself for my "suspicious vote." At the end of Day 2, we pestered Fulla and Tube for NOT explaining their actions. Now you're pestering me because I DID explain my vote. I'm not going to try to "squirm my way out". I explained myself, you read my explanation and you found it scummy. Pretty cut and dry. If other people agree or disagree, please let me know if you think I need to explain myself further. Overall, I'd like to believe my attitude has been on hunting scum. In this particular instance, it was 20 minutes to deadline with what looked like a hammered target. Was my attitude focused on my innocence right then and there? Yes. Did my attitude remain that way? I leave this question for the rest of the town to answer. Read my filter and let me know if you think I haven't been contributing my fair share towards scumhunting. Presumably, calgar and iamperfection are hurting over my 'trap' laid for them and I have limited faith in their propensity to change their read on me. I'm counting on YourHarry, Speedbump and Hapa to weigh in and let me know of anything else they think I should address. Fulla's welcome to join in as well, if he'll actually read the defense I posted on his case first. | ||
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On July 25 2012 01:56 calgar wrote: No point, nothing to gain. Everyone will claim VT regardless. If there is any blue role that can semi-confirm themselves that's a huge gain for town. If, in the event that there are no other blues, then you are correct. In which case we're right back to where we started. WHAT IS THERE TO LOSE BY CLAIMING? | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
@Hapa: Here are my comments ##Vote: Calgar Let OMGUS War begin. Seriously though, I read through your FOS and pretty much agree with all of it. The biggest parts for me are: the 'summary' of wiggles' filter, his continued suspicions but lack of effort to lynch iamperfection, and this post: On July 22 2012 08:23 calgar wrote: Alright townies, I’ll call it like I see it. Sorry to see you go jingle, we'll bag the rest for ya. @confirmed townies – I consider everyone besides iamperfection, tube, fulla, and speed to be more or less ‘confirmed’ as town. This is in varying degrees, of course, considering the fact that we're going on guesses based on our reasoning. I feel reasonably confident that there is enough info to make solid assumptions here in most of the cases. @direction – It’s difficult to say where to go now because the remaining players are a mix of inactivity and suspicious activity which is helping the mafia hide. I think all four of them have been generally inactive, some moreso than others. I assessed what tiny bit of mufaa’s old filter was there and the vague feel I got based off of it was town. Going off of what little that is, I’m inclined to put him/speedbump on hold and go towards the other three for now. IGMEOY iamperfection, tube, fulla I'll kick things off with this vote since it seems to be where hopeless and hapa are leaning towards also. ##Vote iamperfection From which two have flipped town so far. The remaining one is on board with calgar to come after me today. The remaining one being iamperfection...you know, the guy that calgar has had a scum read on since day1? I know I should be hunting scum one at a time, but this continues to lend credence to them both being mafia. Not only that, but calgar attempts to say that he is confirmed town. Reeks of suspicious motive. This combined with both Jingle's Day2 Case and Hapa's FOS Case are more than enough to convince me he's scum. Roleclaims: The only thing I can see getting us another day is to either lynch scum or no-lynch. Roleclaiming can't really hurt us anymore. Either we have cop that can semi-confirm or we don't and it won't matter tomorrow when we're in lynch-or-lose territory. Am I missing a scenario where NOT claiming could help town in some way? Either way, my claim is Vanilla Senior. | ||
Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On July 26 2012 00:16 iamperfection wrote: If you and me switch to no lynch that cant happen. that would bring it to 5 if a "town" speed bump randomly voted for someone and if the two scum switched no lynch would still win. Right? I think you're right actually. I wasn't considering "No-Lynch" to be a person and thought if someone came away with even 1 vote they'd get lynched. ##Unvote ##Vote: No Lynch | ||
Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On July 09 2012 07:40 Probulous wrote: Activity: You must post in this thread once per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. If you fail to do so, you will be modkilled. Newbie games tend to have people who decide not to participate. I will not tolerate this, if you don't think you can play, then don't sign up. To confirm you have bothered to read my wonderful OP. I will only accept you into this game if you write "I will be active" in your sign up post. Is each day/night cycle considered one cycle or are we required to post at least once between any given Day and Night (Or Night and Day post)? Depending on the answer, it is possible that both speedbump and calgar should be modkilled. Assuming there is leniency due to being a noobie game and all, we're in LYLO today. Claim any roles as soon as possible with any reads you might have based on your claim (or regular reads for that matter). I honestly don't think there is a blue left because there should have been a last minute night post getting everything onto the table just before dieing. I still think calgar is scum. ##Vote Calgar | ||
Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
I'm going to continue to read calgar as scum until tomorrow morning it seems when I get a chance to read his defence. YourHarry's 'defence' of calgar is somehow related to the fact that Jingle (confirmed town) targeted calgar with his rb and calgar did not receive a roleblock pm. YourHarry considered the mod's "profuse apologizing" to be indicative of calgar being town. I fail to see how any of that proves calgar's alliance and I'm effectively disregarding it altogether. The other thing that YourHarry noted was the fact that he was going to try to lynch calgar and that leaving him alive would be a good way to promote a mislynch if calgar was town. That is a very WIFOM-y argument. Quite frankly, I have no faith in YourHarry's read because at LYLO, confirmed townies are the biggest threat to scum. He was target #1 and the fact that he somehow thought he was going to live makes me want to completely ignore his last couple posts. | ||
Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On July 31 2012 07:35 JingleHell wrote: Well, yes, like I said, I wasn't expecting people to notice it readily since I was already a prolific poster. Apparently that worked better than BH thought, but since Calgar brought it up, I decided to play that hand instead. I just overdid it a bit, instead of seeing the obvious part that I did later, where only one of you could possibly be scum, or I'd just have turned into a mislynch, since any two of the three of us could have controlled town opinion at that point in the game. It wasn't until the Wiggles vote that I realized that, though, since both of you being scum might not have been able to turn it into a mislynch on me safely, but you certainly could have sustained the votes on YH into a mislynch and brushed it off easily for a cakewalk D3 mislynch on me. You trying to get both of them convinced me that one of them was definitely scum. I really thought it was calgar and iamperfection. @Hapa, did you really have a train to catch day1? | ||
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