EPTI Can't Believe it's not Themed MiniMafia
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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gonzaw, even not in-game you talk a lot <3 Edit: also, of course I will not be replaced! | ||
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marvellosity
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But let's not be silly, it's never going to happen :D | ||
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On July 10 2012 06:50 NoSmurfHere wrote: Says the noob who rolled vig 3 games in a row and shot town each time :p I have a midterm in a few hours and so will not update the thread until after. If the game achieves capacity tonight then signups will persist until 20:00 GMT (+00:00) on Wednesday (roughly 46 hours from the time of this post) and the game will start two hours after that. Wow, ouch  | ||
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marvellosity
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On July 11 2012 06:54 Keirathi wrote: ##Vote marvellosity So obvious. ... if all the people I've hosted/coached/watched from the Newbie games gang up on me, I shall be rather displeased D: | ||
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e: Prom <3 | ||
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how was midterm thingy? | ||
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On July 12 2012 01:24 VisceraEyes wrote: I doubt it. Nothing against you, but if your reads' quality is based on the presence/absence of another player, then you have other problems dear. No babe. It just shows how much you tug my little heart strings. But yes, it is bollocks. My reads were excellent in Mini magic and you were present. | ||
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marvellosity
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Millers claim roleblockers do not (katina prevented SK KP in... Emergency? but had the misfortunte to be targeted down as scum. if for some reason she'd been left alive she could've repeated the act) gonzaw you're an ass <3 | ||
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On July 12 2012 08:50 talismania wrote: pardon me for some half-assed musing: since we've got majority lynch to deal with, what about some sort of nomination system? I don't like how majority allows townies and scum alike to save their opinions on people, especially day one and just hop on whatever bandwagon is happening near the end of the day. It would be nice if, say, 24 hours in everyone puts up a list of three players they want to see in consideration for the lynch and reasons why. Then all that gets tallied up or something and we decide between the popular choices. Actually you wouldn't even need to tally or enforce that. Just having everyone put up three names with reasons should be good enough to move discussion towards a consensus lynch candidate or two (hush s&b yes I am and always will try to get people to post their impressions of others). no next | ||
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marvellosity
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I'd rather lynch talis for his never-ending bullshit on listing names and reasons. Seriously, 24 hours into day 1 and we're supposed to come up with reasons on 3 different people for why they might be scum? It's just nonsense. Or... wait for it... I have an idea! If someone says something a person finds scummy, they can call them out and bring it to the thread! Wow, marv, you say - an amazing plan! People shouldn't be 'forced' to make effort, the making of the effort willingly is what helps gives us our reads on people. | ||
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On July 12 2012 16:51 strongandbig wrote: Hey bros For people who weren't in ssb or mtg mafias, just wanted to let you guys know I am currently in Europe, where I don't have a cell phone data plan. This means I can only post when I have wifi, which is a change from my normal method. I've also been busy at work so please don't expect much from me before 8pm CET. Now for serious stuff: I'm going to be watching marv like a motherfuking hawk. I think hosts tend to try to "balance" games sometimes by tweaking their scum team selection; however, that can and has led to extra info from town through balance speculation. Marvellosity makes an extremely tempting player for hosts to do this kind of balancing, because his scum play is empirically very good, but he isn't a "veteran" so he's not likely to be the subject of balance speculation. I also suspect bugs of doing this kind of balancing. + Show Spoiler [reasons, from wheel of fortune.] + The last of his c++ games I played in was wheel of fortune. That was a stacked game and I was one of the worst players in it, although I did eventually manage to figure out the scum team (and got shot for having correct reads before I could push some of them). With the benefit of hindsight, that scum team looks almost perfectly balanced for the player base. Radfield was town, ace was scum. VE and Forumite were both good players, but only on the edge of being full-on vets. I firmly believe that town would have won that game if Radfield hadn't decided to use a DT check on Ace, who was godfather. That kind of closeness is the sign of a well-balanced game; and the odds that both town and scum would have their best player as their best power role are very small from pure chance. So what does this mean? I am NOT proposing to policy lynch marvellosity; if he's town he can be a great asset, and besides that's totally against the spirit of the game. What I AM saying is that I think when someone points out something scummy he does, we should take it pretty seriously. Pure chance wouldn't explain why he has rolled scum in something like half his games since our first game together (noob 6) while I have rolled it once - him being good and me not does explain that. NOW: having told you why you should pay attention, I'm going to point out something scummy marv has done. That thing is: propose/say he would be okay with lynching Talismania. Talismania's plan IS anti town. When Ace is host and he tells an obs QT how good a plan is for scum, you better believe he knows what he's talking about. Systematic case proposing plans give scum an excuse to make shitty reads and blend in, because everyone is making shitty cases and dumb reads. That kind of plan dilutes good information and adds bad information. HOWEVER: Talismania proposes this plan as town. All the time. Like, every game. Usually "pushing scummy plans" is a decent scum tell; but this specific player pushing this specific plan is not. And Marvellosity should know this. Marv has obs'd at least two games where Talismania proposed this plan or a variation of it (ssb, bangbang). Tali has proposed this in other games. Marv is the kind of player who pays attention; he should also know that I've pushed tali hard for these plans in the past, as have others. Marv putting tali forward as his first lynch candidates comes down to an easy push on an easy target for reasons he should know are bad. Marv, I'm watching you. + Show Spoiler [on Talismania, briefly] + I'm not saying tali is an easy target in general, like kenpachi or grush would be. He's not that kind of shitty player slash bad case magnet. It's just that for marv to propose him for lynch based on that plan is scummy. ##Vote: strongandbig Damn this game is easy. First section is fluff. Second section is a completely insidious attempt to create additional suspicion on to me under the guise of "balance". He spends time saying people should scrutinise me especially for mythical 'balance' reasons... that for some reason are working exactly like he says and no other way. As to "I should know this" about talismania. I didn't really obs SSB so much (I think there is even a comment in the post-game where someone said Risen had no credibility but i did not know because I hadn't followed that closely). But in bang bang talis was SCUM and proposed similar. And I still find the plan scummy whether he proposes it as town or scum. One last point on his shitty balance bullshit - " Pure chance wouldn't explain why he has rolled scum in something like half his games since our first game together (noob 6) while I have rolled it once - him being good and me not does explain that." I have rolled scum TWICE. I have said in at least one other thread recently (maybe MTG?), directly in response to him I think, that I have only rolled scum TWICE. This is not half the time. This whole post is the worst thing I've ever seen. ##Vote: strongandbig I'm doing it twice because I feel so strongly about it. | ||
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marvellosity
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"talis plan is scummy, but he always does it" that's literally the only content | ||
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marvellosity
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You seem to think I follow games closer than I do. My main memory was of Bang bang where I got rather annoyed about it there as well. I'll take your word on Space Station because it was too many games ago for me to remember. Regardless, I *do* believe the plan is anti-town. And I did not accompany it with a vote. gonzaw's preceding question was "who would you lynch between..." so it was merely a follow-on answer - "I'd rather lynch..." I still think the idea of keeping me under close scrutiny for "balance" reasons is an insidious way to think. Everyone should be under full scrutiny all of the time. You're singling me out for subjective, unprovable reasons (for instance, I would postulate that WoF was more stacked for Mafia; no weak links with two extremely strong scum players in VE/Ace and Forumite who is apparently very competent at it). | ||
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marvellosity
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Next time don't try to dress it up and justify it. You know I like to be watched, darling. For now, ##unvote | ||
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marvellosity
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I guess normally at the start of day 1 he has setup shit to ramble on about, which he does not here. | ||
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On July 12 2012 04:17 NoSmurfHere wrote: It's loosely based on this: Click for C9++ Wiki page However many of the roll chances have been modified to reflect the strength of town usage of power roles on TL being greater than on mafiascum. I.E, the chances for vigilante and mason in particular are drastically reduced while the chance for roleblocker is increased. Also the mafia determiner has been changed to include framers and reduces the possibility of a 2 man scumteam (though that is still possible) At some point if I am convinced that my determiner is balanced I will release it. However I've been tweaking it game to game and examining all the setups that it generates. Luckily I haven't had to throw one out yet so chances are strong that almost any version of the randomizer I've used is reasonably balanced. I just want to find the most balanced one for use on TL. and also this sorry, should have consolidated my last couple of posts | ||
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marvellosity
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In a game full of TL Mafia's best players he led the PM "town circle" as scum in Liar Mafia | ||
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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While you're here, any early suspicions, given your eagerness to get people to post their thoughts? | ||
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On July 13 2012 00:14 talismania wrote: @marv I'm putting together a compendium of the reaction posts so I can look at them altogether. From skimming this morning from where I left off yesterday nothing really stuck out. Actually that's a lie - first I thought austin's response was scummy because it just aped what you and matt had said. But then like literally all these other players I've never played with said the exact same thing as he did with similar looking/composed posts. @matt what about you? You shit on it just like everyone else. that's the problem when a plan is so obviously bad... everyone wants to shit on it, so it's hard to gauge varied reactions when they're bound to all be similar | ||
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marvellosity
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"People shouldn't be 'forced' to make effort, the making of the effort willingly is what helps gives us our reads on people." | ||
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On July 13 2012 01:34 talismania wrote: I said in my first post "If roleblocker does exist but doesn't want to come out then I kindly request he not use his power at all until it makes sense." I mean that. I mean don't use it unless it makes sense, which means probably don't use it early on. Ah yes. As opposed to the roleblocker using his power when it doesn't make sense. Fun thought game: when someone proposes not doing something, consider the opposite that he is proposing against. "Don't do x stupidly!" "thank god! I was thinking of doing it stupidly" "Don't lynch townies!" "gosh, that's where my thinking was wrong!" "Don't use roleblocker unless it makes sense!" "wow! I was thinking of using it willy nilly for no good reason!" Generic advice-giving with no real purpose as the opposite case is silly anyway. No? | ||
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marvellosity
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I think RBer (should we have one) should use his RB role how he sees fit rather than listen to general advices about it. | ||
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marvellosity
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Let's talk about metaaaaaaa. On July 12 2012 18:30 Vivax wrote: Speaking of meta, sciberbia doesn't look good based on that.I was with him in two games and I feel like he's being different in this one. s0lstice already pointed out the missing fast posts we're used to see from scib at the start of the game. That alone is forgivable given the posted reasons. But the overall gut feeling is still bad cause of the overall style. Vivax says sciberbia doesn't look good for meta, also quotes s0lstices meta reason on scib. Gut feeling/overall style, more talking about meta. On July 13 2012 01:49 Vivax wrote: No, he doesn't have to be townie. But I initially voted for him cause he didn't post anything, then he posted the metagame info and I found it good enough to unvote him. I remember sciberbia for more concise, compact posts, and I remember him posting really early. He already explained why he didn't post early in this game, so what remains are the posts that subjectively look different to me. But I prefer to not rely heavily on meta, my play changes often aswell and I don't have as much experience. Anyway, I don't like Matt's filter, it looks like he posts rather meaningless content, no active scumhunting in it, rather commenting on what other players already said. He also acts a little differently than in LVI. Reason for unvoting strongandbig: because he talked about meta. Then talks more about sciberbia's meta. Later in the post he talks about Matt's meta. But in the middle of this post he says "but I prefer to not rely heavily on meta". That's literally all he's posted about! Scummy contradiction, heyo! ##Vote: Vivax | ||
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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See LVI where I did not vote Vivax. | ||
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On July 13 2012 02:46 Vivax wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344514&user=129423 Matt's filter in LVI. You accused me of using too much meta, so feel free to read and quote it for yourself. Weird that you asked about it cause you were in the same game. That's not how it works. You claim he is posting differently. Now explain it to me and the rest of the thread. | ||
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marvellosity
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On July 13 2012 02:43 Mattchew wrote: Marv I want to disagree with you so bad, but I was wrong about something JUST LIKE this is MTG mafia... hmm I don't like the way sciberbia has been posting... it all seems forced as hell like the way he says He clarifies that he's only saying this cause gonzaw asked, kinda reads to me like hes paranoid about not answering a question in the thread What do you want to disagree with? | ||
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marvellosity
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What's to disagree with? I mean, you might not think he's scum, but what I wrote was true... bangs on about meta, says he doesn't want to rely on meta. | ||
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On July 13 2012 04:18 Vivax wrote: You got your answers about matt. You asked for meta information, not me. My arguments against matt weren't based primarily on meta like you are trying to put it. Also, good job on asking for information you think is not a contribution. If that's the information you want town to get, it's not hard to guess which team you are on. Bold: The actual meta content regarding matt. It's interesting how you inflated such a sentence and go on calling it an inconsistency with my opinion regarding meta. I said I wouldn't base my reads heavily on meta. + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2012 01:49 Vivax wrote: No, he doesn't have to be townie. But I initially voted for him cause he didn't post anything, then he posted the metagame info and I found it good enough to unvote him. I remember sciberbia for more concise, compact posts, and I remember him posting really early. He already explained why he didn't post early in this game, so what remains are the posts that subjectively look different to me. But I prefer to not rely heavily on meta, my play changes often aswell and I don't have as much experience. Anyway, I don't like Matt's filter, it looks like he posts rather meaningless content, no active scumhunting in it, rather commenting on what other players already said. He also acts a little differently than in LVI. y u always misunderstand me D: I know I asked you how Matt was different this game, obviously it would be completely hypocritical of me to say you kept on talking about meta for that, I was talking about earlier when you made a couple of posts on sciberbia's meta and unvoted s&b for posting good 'meta' stuff on me. | ||
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"He could be scum bussing a scumbuddy. He could be scum calling out town. He's probably a townie. He's a townie but I don't like what he's doing. A lot of filter, but nothing really said." Here, as I read it, he was summarizing what Risen had said and pointing out how wishy washy it was. He was not giving his own view on Risen. This makes a pretty big difference. | ||
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It concerns me that Keirathi is trying to use meta (or lack of it) as a reason to back off him. Who I'm particularly interested at the moment (read - he's scum), though, is s0lstice. I had this nagging feeling in the back of my head that I was missing someone from all these thoughts you brought up, and it was him. He has a sum total of zero scum reads so far. On July 12 2012 07:39 s0Lstice wrote: like backflips? anyway, in the other games I've played with sciberbia, he has had a post prepared as soon as the daypost hit the presses. it usually contains his thoughts on the typical day 1 fodder etc. needless to say he has never played scum. I'm wondering where he is.. This post, what does it say? 1) sciberbia is always town (so far) 2) sciberbia always makes introductory posts fast at the start of the game 3) sciberbia has not done so here What we're missing is the conclusion. He insinuates the idea that sciberbia might be scum based on the fact that he hasn't posted yet, but he doesn't say it. He just leaves the idea there. On July 12 2012 10:15 s0Lstice wrote: maybe I misread, but I'm pretty sure Marv was addressing Talis with those lines you quoted, gonzaw. As far as the names you listed, I wouldn't want to kill any of them right now. Austin has easy town meta, I feel confident I can recognize it. Mattchew, Risen, and s&b are just blank pages. I am nervous however of Risen making a conscious effort to change his play-style. I read him right in SSB64 but just barely. Lots of people he DOESN'T want to kill. On July 12 2012 10:57 s0Lstice wrote: it's not too fast. day 1 is weird, and it only really gets going when people do what you do. right now I'd want to hear from Vivax, mainly. my dear Vivax, what do you think of the people gonzaw posted about? do you find it scummy that they appeared excited to post, yet didn't say much past their intro? "it's not too fast" - this was in response to gonzaw shooting out the blocks with scumreads and pointing fingers. s0lstice approves of this but does none of it himself. He asks Vivax if he finds something scummy, but he avoids saying that thing is scummy himself. Does Vivax find it scummy... idea planted - without saying what s0lstice thinks. On July 12 2012 11:04 s0Lstice wrote: Keirathi, assuming you are still around... why so verbose about lurkers? what do you think of talismania's plan? More questions... ok. "why so verbose about lurkers?" - you tell me, how is a townie really supposed to answer that question satisfactorily? It's like, a non-question. It feels like he's saying he's suspicious of it without saying anything about it. He asks what Keirathi thinks of talismania's plan but HE DOES NOT OFFER HIS OWN OPINION. His final few posts in his filter are asking about gonzaw and his PM / # of scum crap, saying it gave him townie points. He's... townhunting? There's no scumhunting in s0lstice's filter. There are leading questions to which he never provides his own opinion (talis' plan, 'do you find it scummy' at vivax) or statements where he implies something but never says it (scib hasn't posted yet), and appreciation for gonzaw starting scumhunting early but doing nothing himself. I believe s0lstice to be the best day 1 lynch. ##Unvote ##Vote: s0lstice | ||
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marvellosity
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I'm not talking about him 'following up' on the Vivax questions either, you seem to be misreading. It's the fact he's asking SOMEONE ELSE if they find soemthing scummy without proffering HIS OWN OPINION while he's at it. | ||
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marvellosity
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he mentions that scib hasn't posted while he usually does as town, but what does HE think about it? he asks Vivax about the people in gonzaw's post being scummy, but what does HE think about it? he asks Keirathi about the verbosity, but what does HE think about it? he asks about talis plan, but what does HE think about it? The answer to everything is nothing. What DOES s0lstice think? He thinks gonzaw might be town but he has to check, and he doesn't want to kill a bunch of people. | ||
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How's that? | ||
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On July 13 2012 11:33 Keirathi wrote: I'm not marv, but I'll give my initial impression of your case against him. Your case mostly seems to be about his meta arguments, but all of them were based on games he actually played with those people, not on overall meta. Maybe you're right that he should have gone back and looked at the overall talis meta, but I don't fault him too much for just using meta from games that he was actually a part of and not pouring over thousands of posts of other players to figure out their meta. As an aside: your case against Risen feels stronger than your case against Milton anyways. I'm kind of suprised you voted the way you did. Also I very much felt that when I read it too, interesting. | ||
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On July 13 2012 12:01 gonzaw wrote: Also marv, what about S&B? What about Dropbear or Milkton? Do you think EVERYTHING I posted isn't worthy so you go and try to find scum somewhere else? I dunno dude, I posted that so people could post their thoughts about it (and hopefully) agree and vote some of those guys, not to have it completely ignored. Clearly after having read all your usual prattle I felt there was a better option. Basically you're saying here "don't scumhunt! Just listen to me!!!" now THAT is scummy. | ||
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On July 13 2012 04:47 gonzaw wrote: I don't see a "relatively noob" scum posting like this as soon as the game starts. He "jokingly" accused 3 people by that point, and seemed cheerful about it. That's not how noob scum play (why would they try to "joke" accuse people if it puts them more in the spotlight as SOON as the game starts?), hell they even rarely post at the very beginning of the game at all, and they never appear cheerful or anything. Why? Because they are scum that's why, they have to check their scum QT, check their buddies, talk to them, think how they are going to proceed, etc. Someone more experienced could pull this off, but I even doubt that. That's what made me think Radfield wasn't scum on iGrok's game and I was right, basically no scum jumps right into the action at the very start of the game and start joking around and posting without hesitating at all. No, you were wrong. Radfield was scum - SK - in that game, a game where you repeatedly and incorrectly called him townie. Why are you using one of your biggest fail-reads (by comparison, I had Radfield as scum and voted for him as SK, correctly, in igrok's poll) as a way of justifying your townreads here?? | ||
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On July 13 2012 10:33 marvellosity wrote: damnit my case was so badly timed. dumb of me ah, s0lstice. About time I explained this post a little. My case was effectively about you not contributing/posting your own opinons. Options: 1) s0lstice is scum. Correct play is to make a good contributory post with opinions to contradict the case and look townie. 2) s0lstice is townie. Correct play is to make a good contributory post with opinions to contradict the case and look townie. ... that's the problem. I should have sat on the case until sometime today to see if you'd made a post like that without my prompting. So unfortunately I've backed myself into a corner and I'm not sure lynching you is best play :/ re: Milton, I'll take a closer look and get back to you. | ||
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On July 13 2012 06:35 Miltonkram wrote: He's shat up a bunch of the thread talking about his proposal or trying to derail the discussion towards it. On July 13 2012 17:07 Miltonkram wrote: I'm looking for a player pushing a scummy agenda. Neither austin or Keirathi fit that bill to me. Talismania does. It's as simple as that. On July 13 2012 20:10 Miltonkram wrote: talismania- I've posted my reasoning before. He's promoted an anti-town environment. That assumption being that the discussion around the plan 'shat up the thread', 'derailed discussion', 'pushes a scum agenda', or 'promotes an anti-town environment'. Arguably having something to discuss first 24 hours Day 1 actually promotes a positive town environment. Usually Day 1 is full of fumbling around looking for shit to talk about. But look at this game, most people have reads of some description, and the game is going along at a nice pace. What I'm getting at is this - we need to hear from Miltonkram on why exactly he thinks this way. Why does he think the discussions (discussion = good, no?) have promoted an anti-town environment? | ||
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On June 12 2012 18:13 Miltonkram wrote: I know what you mean. It's great being on their team, fucking terrifying when they're working against you  Good to see so many familiar faces! Can't wait for this to get started so I can feed my Mafia addictio... uh... I mean... enjoy a wonderfully sporting event with you gents! On June 13 2012 10:35 Miltonkram wrote: Hey all, glad to see we've got a bit of activity already. In NMM XV we actually had a decent discussion about no-lynches (involving me making a fool of myself) and how they can actually be beneficial in certain setups. That being said, we don't know for certain if we'll have any modkills so we should leave no-lynches off the table until we hit the unlikely scenario that a no-lynch is beneficial for the town. Town, the best way to contribute is just to get posting. Let everyone know what your thoughts are. Did someone post something suspicious? Let us know about it. Do you think the town is making a bad move? Let us know about it. If a townie lurks he/she is letting down his/her entire team. So don't do it, K? I'm sooooooooper serious. Like sooooper, soooooooooooper serious. Hey sciberbia, remember this ##Vote: sciberbia ...heh heh heh Miltonkram scum. Friendly, jokey, with a non-explained vote at the start of a game. Such a shit heuristic. | ||
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On July 13 2012 10:21 s0Lstice wrote: Miltonkram: I found to my sorrow that making a case on a town Talis is an easy thing to do. This also means that he is an attractive target for scum to harp on. I found Milton's reasoning strange. His filter is small, but there are several references to the use of meta. He uses meta to inform his reads on Keirathi, Sciberbia, and austin...but not his top scum read? I know for certain that the information he would find would be useful to him here. His case reads as phony, and I think there is a good chance he rolled scum again. Risen: I've spent a ton of time in his past games. The two biggest things he did when he was scum that he didn't do when he was town were: stressing repeatedly that it's too early to have reads, and being forthcoming/defending his 'town reads.' So far this game he has hit both of those marks. He defended Mattchew, and concluded that Dropbear being town is likely. He has said twice that it's too early to post reads. I feel better about lynching Miltonkram today, and as such: ##vote: Miltonkram This game his [austin's] effort matches, and I feel he has made some good points on Risen. Him matching his town meta is only one piece of my view on him, and it's largely unnecessary. His actions thus far seem pretty pro-town to me. On July 13 2012 11:33 Keirathi wrote: As an aside: your case against Risen feels stronger than your case against Milton anyways. I'm kind of suprised you voted the way you did. Mentioned elsewhere in my filter, but that was my gut reaction to s0lstice's post as well. What do you think? | ||
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On July 13 2012 22:32 Vivax wrote: For once I'll agree with you marv. Using self-presented behavior as argumentation is not reliable. Inconsistencies between arguments and intentions are much better for scumhunting. Miltons intentions and arguments are : 1. Lynch talis based on (imo) weak arguments. At least too weak to draw such a quick decision about the lynch target. To me it just looks like Milton's trying to pick a target to blend in and call it a day, while defending himself like he does in point 2. 2. Defend from s0lstice using arguments not designed to defend oneself, but to attack s0lstice. That's also the inconsistency. If you think s0lstice is playing scummy, make a case against him. But don't point out things you find scummy and expect that to be your defense against that players' arguments. I hadn't noticed this, will go back and have a look because if you're right it's quite interesting. | ||
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[/QUOTE] On July 12 2012 04:17 NoSmurfHere wrote: It's loosely based on this: Click for C9++ Wiki page However many of the roll chances have been modified to reflect the strength of town usage of power roles on TL being greater than on mafiascum. I.E, the chances for vigilante and mason in particular are drastically reduced while the chance for roleblocker is increased. Also the mafia determiner has been changed to include framers and reduces the possibility of a 2 man scumteam (though that is still possible) At some point if I am convinced that my determiner is balanced I will release it. However I've been tweaking it game to game and examining all the setups that it generates. Luckily I haven't had to throw one out yet so chances are strong that almost any version of the randomizer I've used is reasonably balanced. I just want to find the most balanced one for use on TL. Why don't you read the thread, gonzaw? I even quoted these earlier posts IN-GAME. ??? | ||
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On July 14 2012 00:55 strongandbig wrote: As for your question I'm at work still so no deep thoughts yet - I'm inclined to give Risen the benefit of the doubt for a few days at least, since he has a good motivation to try to change his town play. Nothing on dropbear right now I'll try and reread his filter later. I think this is a terrible, lazy way to think. | ||
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On July 13 2012 17:07 Miltonkram wrote: You're right on one thing, I should familiarize myself with talismania's meta, which is something I will do now that I've gotten home from work. (They called me in on my day off, the bastards) Just a quick point. In no way does a player following their town meta absolve them of suspicion, but it does push them closer to a null read than a scum read. I'm looking for a player pushing a scummy agenda. Neither austin or Keirathi fit that bill to me. Talismania does. It's as simple as that. In addition to my earlier question to Miltonkram, I'd like this expanded on also | ||
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On July 14 2012 01:32 talismania wrote: gonzaw: Aside from his "lol how does the setup work?" posts everything he's done screams townie to me. Like the amount of effort he's put in just seems excessive. Even I imagine myself with 100% free time I can't see myself doing that much work as scum. I'll just leave this scum filter here. Bear in mind this was a PM game, so that was merely half his effort. I'm not saying he's scum because of it, but please do not assume he is town through effort, that's totally null alignment-wise for gonzaw. | ||
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On July 14 2012 01:56 Miltonkram wrote: @ marvellosity I would argue that discussion has moved along well despite the way talismania has been posting. I see where you're coming from, talismania's proposal did spark discussion. The fact that he's been so intent to keep discussing a dead topic could easily derail the thread away from scumhunting, or, in the case of his "Reaction" post, doing really bad scumhunting based off of a terrible premise. I'm not sure what you would like expanded on in that last comment you outlined. I'm going to look through previous games talismania has played to help inform my read on him. Is there something in there that isn't clear to you? @ s0Lstice I was jokingly making the point that I was sheeping marvellosity. I didn't mean to say that you were. I was more prodding for the results. Kinda important with lynch time coming up | ||
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On July 14 2012 02:18 Mattchew wrote: I am going to sheep marv, on solistice most likely I'm not at all sure about s0lstice, for my timing reasons given earlier. I need to exercise/eat now, but I want people to seriously consider Risen austin and s0lstice (I think) both brought up points about his meta (defending townreads/connection scumhunting or some such). A couple of other people have noted his desire to change how he plays. however there is a significant difference from not playing too aggressive and not actually contributing or scumhunting. Remember way back earlier in the cycle when austin made his first case against Risen? Well Risen has done jack shit since then either and it's pretty late in the day to have done jack shit in. Other than that, general concerns: Keirathi is still quite uninvolved Some of austin's posts still seem misplaced Can't work out the angle behind Milton's attack on talismania Dropbear hasn't strayed too far from null for me s&b hasn't done anything particularly alignment indicating for me gonzaw doesn't know how to read towntells (this is a pointless jab actually) Overall I don't want to lynch any of s&b, dropbear, talis (I liked his last big post a lot) But yeah, please look at Risen and his contributions and tell me if you think he's townie (no 'he's playing nicer' excuses) | ||
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Right, back in 2 hours or so | ||
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On July 14 2012 03:56 s0Lstice wrote: Vivax- what happened to Miltonkram? You've waffled around on him quite a bit, and now Risen is your top scumread? I find this somewhat hypocritical as s0lstice pushed Miltonkram in his big post after my case, and is now voting Risen himself | ||
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His scum filter from Newbie XVI is here where he lurked and summarised stuff. Here he is active and pushing stuff, even if he's doing it badly. | ||
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He unvotes talis here - with the comment "as long as there's activity I'm fine hopping off you". Sooooo much talking about why he found the plan bad (surely that's why he was pushing) to unvote based on the fact he's active about stuff? The only problem here is that I'm finding it hard to make myself feel strongly about this | ||
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I said earlier I didn't want to lynch Dropbear, now I'm not so sure. He's pushing Vivax on the basis of practically nothing, and he came out strongly defending Milton - I believe others thought scum wouldn't do this - only because he was having an argument with his scumread Vivax He also says Keirathi is a strong townread with no explanation. What have we got to hold Dropbear accountable for so far?? | ||
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That's even weirder then Keirathi, how had Milton done enough at that stage to be a strong townread? | ||
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On July 14 2012 05:41 Risen wrote: + Show Spoiler + On July 14 2012 04:57 Risen wrote: Vivax: A study on why some people should just quit while they're ahead. Alright, good opener. Nothing too useful, but he's giving his opinion on the miller/mason claim. Better than lurking! His very next post. How can you be an active lurker so early into the game? I initially thought this post was just something to get strongandbig posting. I, however, hate when people do things like this without at least a little solid reasoning. Pressuring people is fine, I do it (or at least I try to) and I'm not worried about that, but I dislike how this is just a single one-line vote following absolutely nothing. Gives credence to the possibility that he's just pressuring people into posting by using his vote as a means. Perfectly fine, and I support this pressure because it's not just "##unvote ##vote miltonb/clurk"... it's milton said he was going to lurk a little but lets add a little fire under his bum for added motivation. At this point I'm thinking, oh yeah vivax is playing pretty townie. Sweet. This is just... what? I don't even know what's going on the first half of this post. Anyways, he finds the person he's played with in the past and says "he's playing different from his meta! He's different!" Umm... how? That's how meta cases work, you find a discrepancy and then you post what said discrepancy is. Also latches onto s0lstice's point about scrib's posting instead of adding to the conversation. More wishy washy "he's different but I'm not going to post anything specific" Continues with "his meta is different just look here!" (gives him an out if someone says well I read it and I'm not seeing anything wonky like you because Viv hasn't actually posted HOW matt is different) So... you grab an extremely specific post about matt bawking at someone making an extremely scummy post and say that b/c he's different now he's moving away from his meta? His meta is a general trend of how he usually plays, if you wanted to use that in a meta argument you'd have to find a post very similar to the one you quoted and make the link between games. For example, if a post in a similar vein was made in this thread and matt didn't do anything about it, THEN you would say he's playing against his meta. OR, if he made a post very similar to the one he made that game in this one you could point to that and say he's playing to his meta. That hasn't happened, there is no meta connection in those quotes you provided. Now you're misusing meta AND scumslip. What gives... Marv, correctly imo, calls out Vivax on his horrible use of meta. Vivax replies with a horrible defense and a soft push on marv. Guess who soft pushes shit? Scum. Why? Because later on they can point to the soft-pushes, the soft-defenses and say "hey! I called him out long ago, that's why I'm joining this bandwaggon!" or "hey! I defended him here, see! I knew he was towny, damn..." after a town flip. More to follow....... ........ ..... .. . Where? Finally! We have a post with conviction! (Even if it IS coming after other people have already voiced suspicion of Milton) Oh... jk... convictions gone. Ermm... ok? Nothing really to go on here since he's just confirming what marv has said and not actually offering anything of his own. See a common thread here? Viv isn't actually DOING anything. Well, I guess Milton is his top scumread still. Lol, jk! His case against me revolves around "buddying" gonzaw very, very, very early in the game and he calls my consistency in not wanting to make reads too early bad. Oh, and then there's my "scumslip" he harps on, but it's not really a scumslip... It's a psych 101 case... or something. Anyways, I've responded to his more recent posts, and I think he's scum. Nothing much else to it... I don't find anyone else in this game nearly as scummy, my vote will be staying on vivax. Seriously? No one is going to respond to this? Viv made a very weak defense that was shot down by me and NOONE ELSE comments on that? You're all saying oh well hmm... I'm still leaning townie on him. WHY?!?! I answered already and it's not my fault you can't fucking read. | ||
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From what I know of scum Vivax: lurky and summarises a lot of stuff. yes it's only one game that's what i got I'm seeing more of scenario 1 at the moment | ||
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See the difference? Or just trying to make some dumbass point like usual? | ||
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On July 14 2012 03:30 Mattchew wrote: Imma read into risen now This was 2 hours 20 minutes ago. Is matt sitting there laughing watching us? | ||
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On July 14 2012 05:29 marvellosity wrote: Holy shit austin's case on talismania wasawful. A fucking enormous post where he votes http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/smilies.phptalis on the basis that... his supposed 2 part plan was bad? Look at the size of the post to content ratio there. He unvotes talis here - with the comment "as long as there's activity I'm fine hopping off you". Sooooo much talking about why he found the plan bad (surely that's why he was pushing) to unvote based on the fact he's active about stuff? The only problem here is that I'm finding it hard to make myself feel strongly about this I'm kinda coming back to an austin lynch at the moment because of this. So much stuff in his filter that was either out of place or unnecessary. On July 13 2012 02:03 austinmcc wrote: Marv do you think Vivax is scum or just being Vivax? Just re-found this. What kind of question is this? What was he expecting to achieve with this? What are the options for my answer... "yeah, I'm voting Vivax at the moment for being Vivax". It makes no sense. It's like an attempt at trapping but it's so fake because it's so transparent. His defence of s0lstice after my case also felt off to me. ##Unvote ##Vote: austinmcc | ||
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Does not compute... | ||
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At the moment obviously I prefer austin but I could consolidate on to Dropbear. | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:08 strongandbig wrote: im willing to vote austin but marv what do you think about sol now? still scum but less sure than austin, or are you doubting your earlier read on him? this is about to sound pathetic, but i got townie vibes from s0lstice saying he was disappearing shortly but then hanging around longer than he should have :/ | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:33 sciberbia wrote: @marv I'd be really adverse to an austin lynch why? | ||
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It's majority | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:41 talismania wrote: Lol are you trying to see how much of this stuff you can get away with or something? yeah it's actually getting ridiculous. | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:42 gonzaw wrote: It stoke me some doubt since Risen was all "vote Vivax/Dropbear" which made me think it may have been a plurality lynch. If it's majority then sorry to tell you but we'll NL if things keep up like this. Yes AND YOU HAVEN'T VOTED What's wrong with you??? | ||
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I keep going over and over Dropbear's filter and I can't shake the feeling that he's townie. I don't think he's played well but he's been pretty aggressive and even though i want to i'm not reading scum off it | ||
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##Vote: Vivax | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:56 sciberbia wrote: @vivax claim now this is serious bullshit 4 minutes from deadline. | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:56 marvellosity wrote: this is serious bullshit 4 minutes from deadline. Posting this again because it really is serious bullshit. | ||
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On July 14 2012 05:51 marvellosity wrote: This was 2 hours 20 minutes ago. Is matt sitting there laughing watching us? On July 14 2012 05:55 marvellosity wrote: I'm serious, where did Matt disappear to? On July 14 2012 06:08 marvellosity wrote: At the risk of repeating myself, I hate that Matt has disappeared close to lynch time when his last post was that he was going to read into the candidates. At the moment obviously I prefer austin but I could consolidate on to Dropbear. | ||
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Until you can learn to read what's been posted, stop posting. | ||
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On July 14 2012 07:07 Risen wrote: You think you'll feel bad? I'm probably going to die if Viv flips town to a vig shot.... Oh hello, LIII. | ||
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On July 14 2012 07:09 gonzaw wrote: lol. I'll lol if both Dropbear+Vivax are town, and then I'm accused of "doing a Risen" by changing the lynch from Dropbear to Vivax I was referring to the fact Risen did his superscummy vote switch from townie to townie in LIII, and then went on about how he was going to get lynched for it, town did not and he was scum | ||
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On July 14 2012 07:32 gonzaw wrote: Also marv, guess it wasn't a shitty heuristic now, was it? still a shitty heuristic love | ||
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On July 14 2012 08:16 gonzaw wrote: Why didn't you vote Dropbear? When I voted him he was at 5 or 6 I think. On July 14 2012 06:48 marvellosity wrote: I keep going over and over Dropbear's filter and I can't shake the feeling that he's townie. I don't think he's played well but he's been pretty aggressive and even though i want to i'm not reading scum off it | ||
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I was hoping for a decent explanation for his behaviour, "I'm drunk" hours after the event is not it. | ||
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On July 14 2012 14:30 gonzaw wrote: I did use the "posts drunk-> is town" heuristic on Prome and S&B in MTG......but dude that doesn't really work in your favor right now. Prome also posted drunkenly in Newbie XIX where he was scum | ||
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On July 14 2012 13:31 DropBear wrote: Oh wow how did I get so many votes? Sorry Vivax, but you did meander around a lot. I'm not keen on posting reads at night, too many WIFOM possibilities. I don't expect to be shot anyway due to the whole nearly getting lynched thing so I'll see the survivors in the morning. You got so many votes because you did nothing during day 1. Where's the surprise?? | ||
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Reading the OP to find out what kind of lynch it is is 10x quicker than typing out the question and waiting for the response. It IS extremely annoying when you already post a shit-tonne and you include crap like that when you can just read the thread instead. | ||
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On July 15 2012 02:02 Mattchew wrote: Wow I guess drunk me doesn't like reading Speaking of Matt, this was all he had to say about disappearing at lynch time? ://///////// | ||
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And he gives us nothing? | ||
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On July 15 2012 06:36 talismania wrote: marv you're around can you go more into your switch near the end there? I was certain you were going to vote dropbear you hadn't even posted much about vivax since the early case. there isn't much more than i've said in my filter. I thought Dropbear's contribution was pretty bad but the all round aggression made me think he was townie I defended Vivax on his meta and then basically I had to choose who was more likely to flip scum between him and Dropbear. In the end it was just the fact that I'd got some townie vibes from Dropbear this game rather than thinking someone was townie because of other games I guess. I find it pretty difficult to explain actually (i tried shortly after the lynch and just ended up deleting it). I'm not at all used to lynching people who aren't my choice (as either alignment!) | ||
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On July 15 2012 06:58 Keirathi wrote: Did you even say who your choice was? All I seem to remember was a bunch of non-commital reads and saying you were frustrated that there wasn't an easy target. Why don't you read my filter? I chose austin in the end and I tried to round up people who said they would vote austin. | ||
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sorry I wasn't more useful town. best of luck | ||
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On July 21 2012 11:58 gonzaw wrote: I derped with the setup, but if people ignore what I say about the setup then it's not that big of a deal. Plus there's no scum motivation at all to derp about the setup (seriously, there isn't), specially if it's not to "justify posting" since I already had pages and pages of posts, I didn't need to "post" about the setup to "appear I was contributing" or something. Scum motivation is that you shit up the thread just take the time to read you already post a lot/lengthily, so if some of it is retarded setup stuff which you could just read already then people are less inclined to believe the rest of your shit. if you can't employ basic reading and comprehension skills re: setup, why would people listen to your reads?? | ||
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