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Newbie Mini Mafia XX - Page 28

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Evulrabbitz
Profile Joined July 2012
Sweden134 Posts
July 08 2012 03:25 GMT
#541
Add Hapa to the list as not the DT.
BassInSpace
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia165 Posts
July 08 2012 03:26 GMT
#542
The role claim plan is sound and it seems like we're already going ahead with it. My post regarding Mackin still stands (posting a summary list of players with still no clear stance other than things like "scummy or not" or "slightly scummy" isn't really responding to my post):

+ Show Spoiler +
On July 07 2012 13:43 BassInSpace wrote:
I'm still not liking Mackin's posts. Here's why:

+ Show Spoiler +
On July 06 2012 05:48 Mackin wrote:
Hey guys, I've only caught up on what I've missed, but I want to provide some defense for myself from some FoS I've been getting. I feel it's a little unfair, but I'll explain myself each time someone has called me out.
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2012 15:44 BassInSpace wrote:
Also, Mackin seems to have completely dropped off with no significant contributions whatsoever, and we KNOW he was around during most of the discussion during this first 24 hours. Not too sure about the other lurkers yet obviously, but I know JieXian and I will have similar post timing (see NMM XVIII) because we’re only 2 hours apart.


Ok, so yeah dropped off but not exactly available 24/7 so it's not really that strange - just different time zones / bed times is all. I agree I haven't contributed too much, but call me out on anything I say and I'll justify it.

Show nested quote +
On July 05 2012 21:09 Lazermonkey wrote:
Some good analysis there Hapa. Although I can't really contribute anything on Mackin as his filter is just that long. I only find the first post of him to be intresting tho. I don't agree with my post be contradictory which I have already said a dozen of times. Yes, I did use bad wording but that's about it. Also look at the timing. Basically echoing what Hope had already said at that point. The other posts from him is indeed fluff, which is at best bad town play.

Overall Mackin is kinda null for me although with the slightest scum vibes due to his first post. I consider him a lurker atm and he really needs to post more before I make a clear read. TMG on the other hand i feel is playing in a very anti-town way. I'd say he is my number 2 scumread after Jingle atm.


Ok Lazer, I'm ready to contribute - I'll be pretty active for a good while if I have anything to add As I said before, don't jump to point the FoS on me just because I have different sleeping times than others. I see the post isn't exactly contradictory now but it still is worded badly, and I think I was one of two who misinterpreted what he was saying about roleclaiming.
//
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2012 02:31 JieXian wrote:

My FOS is on Mackin for trying to light up fires and disappearing as town burns. His thoughtless posting reminds me so much of mafia behavior.



I would agree with you on that point except for the fact that if you read the thread you would realise I wasn't the only one trying to get people talking by saying stuff about their names. If anything I've been pro-town by trying to get people to post which I think worked in some small part, because now it's clearer to see people's stance on each other since they have actually been posting.

More posts in thread = more informed decisions - absolutely true in Mafia.


Also for Hapahauli, you're using words like "huge red flag" and "very anti town" when my motive was simply to get the ball rolling in this game. I feel this is very harsh for how little I've posted, but hopefully I'll have something to add when I re-read everyone's posts.

Show nested quote +
On July 06 2012 02:37 JieXian wrote:
Let's focus on lurkers like Mackin ATM. I know I might qualify as one but I have nothing to add to the lazer/hapa vs hopeless/release/jingle babbling

Back to JieXian: Focus on me all you want, I have nothing but valid reasons for posting what I have so far, call me out if you want an explanation.


Show nested quote +
On July 06 2012 04:33 The_Zen_Man wrote:

So far, Mackin has not posted anything of worth, only tried a bandwagon and agreeing with other players.

Fos: Mackin


Hmm, I know you say I haven't posted anything of worth, but I disagree.
As I have stated above, that in my eyes, it's not so much as the content I had posted but the post itself to get people talking is the main reason for my post. Anyway, the way I see it, I haven't exactly "bandwagoned" I just agree putting pressure on players earlier on as it helps to get them talking.


Anyway, I'm gonna look into everyone's post again and post my thoughts on some of the other players...






Inflates the contributions he's made to the thread. At that point, he hadn't promoted any discussion, all he did was make a few people talk about how scummy he is.

Next:

+ Show Spoiler +
On July 06 2012 07:15 Mackin wrote:
I'm not exactly sure of what to think yet. Nobody has clearly made any big bold statements but whoever the Mafia are, they sure are trying their best to confuse the shit out of me. I can see why people say Mafia is more rewarding the more time you spend looking at it, it is really difficult to make an informed decision when half of the people are lying to you

Release seems like he's on the town's side, as does Hapa, Zen and JieXian, who mostly has the same motive to get people talking as me. Many people have already given credible reasons for suspicion of others, including suspicion aimed at myself but I can see pretty much everyone isn't doing too bad at acting townie.


False, at that point release and lazer were already starting to go at each other (although maybe this doesn't fit his definition of bold, so it's arguable), but Hapa was already attacking Hopeless, and had even dropped his vote on him already. He's being non-committal. He also gives the excuse that he is confused by everyone, possibly as a cover for his infrequent and generally content light posting, although I admit this may be digging a little too hard.

And then we have this post:

+ Show Spoiler +
On July 06 2012 08:42 Mackin wrote:
@Hapa:
Your case on Hopeless1der:
I don't know what to think here. It's like Hopeless is really trying to build a case against you, he builds up quite alot in the first post and when you make your stance clear in your response, his response is to back down immediately. Maybe he just wanted to question you and test the water a bit? I don't think he's trying to genuinely full on attack and point the FoS here. I don't know why he starts going on about Release, if I was thinking more suspiciously of him, he maybe just wanted the conversation to change quickly and forget about building a case on you.


Case vs. TMG26:
Unless his English is really bad, I can see some basis for thinking he isn't exactly on townie side. He may be trying to be really diplomatic for the purposes of going through to the next day, but then again mafia will try to act diplomatic while pushing accusations at the same time like he did in that first quoted post. It's hard to know whats going on in that first post, because his English really isn't great so I'm undecided. I think the indecision may be out of fear of being lynched on day1 townie, but it's hard to know whether the indecision is because he isn't sure and doesn't want to accuse someone innocent or because he has a reason to be indecisive... I don't understand what he's trying to achieve. It does seem odd/slightly scummy but still undecided.

Bass said:

I don't quite understand. So you think that hopeless and jingle are mafia because hopeless defended jingle, but jingle and harry are actually your prime suspects? I'd just like this point clarified.

All in all, TMG is my strongest read so far.

I think that's a good point actually. why would harry be one of TMG's prime suspects if hopeless had defended jingle (if he is assuming jingle to be scummy?)

Onto the case against Release:

I think TMG's case against Release isn't so strong - anyone putting out an early FoS isn't that serious in D1 early stages as it keeps the discussion going and there is no strong points in the post you (hapa) have linked, whereas Evul brings up a better worded, but still annoyingly confusing case against him. I can see why he calls out certain things Release has said, but nothing said actually sounds too scummy to me, but I know I could easily be missing something.

Anyway, I'm getting really tired, damn GMT time so I might have to goto bed soon





Again, claiming that he doesn't know what to think/is confused, thereby not taking a stance on either hopeless or TMG. And then, out of nowhere, this:

Show nested quote +
[B]On July 07 2012 04:04 Mackin wrote:
##Vote YourHarry


No explanation before or after. Not even a post. At that point it was 3 votes a piece for Hopeless and Lazer. I'm thinking this is a throwaway vote on someone who is highly unlikely to be lynched; again, being very non-committal.



It will be interesting to see how zen man responds now, since he promised a proper post on Lazer on day 2.








Evulrabbitz
Profile Joined July 2012
Sweden134 Posts
July 08 2012 03:28 GMT
#543
In my opinion there is no point for the tracker to claim at this point. Maybe closer to the night if he can prevent a mislynch but for the moment there is no point to it unless he have evidence against a mafia(which I highly doubt).
BassInSpace
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia165 Posts
July 08 2012 03:30 GMT
#544
Release I'm not quite sure what the point of your list is. Mafia is not going to fake claim. If evul is mafia, he knows that a claim from the real DT will lose him the game instantly, since we'll just lynch both as one of them has to be lying. The same goes with mafia lying and counter claiming evul; we'd just lynch evul or the counter claimer first, and if the game isn't over yet, lynch the other person.
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
July 08 2012 03:35 GMT
#545
On July 08 2012 12:28 Evulrabbitz wrote:
In my opinion there is no point for the tracker to claim at this point. Maybe closer to the night if he can prevent a mislynch but for the moment there is no point to it unless he have evidence against a mafia(which I highly doubt).


I still like the idea of tracker role-claiming, especially if we can take suspicion off of one of two players. For example, if tracker declares and it leads to the clear of even one of Lazer/Zen/Release/JieXian, we're in really really good shape.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
July 08 2012 03:35 GMT
#546
ok. Whatever. I thought it would make it easier to reference how they claimed.
☺
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
July 08 2012 03:38 GMT
#547
and the RoleBlocker didn't necessarily have to use his role. So if the tracker declares a DID NOT VISIT, that player may still be a mafia. Unless someone claims RBed
☺
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
July 08 2012 03:39 GMT
#548
Once again, Medic does not roleclaim unless he's under heavy fire and has several votes. Medic should also protect DT (EvulRabbitz) so we can get another guaranteed read N2.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Evulrabbitz
Profile Joined July 2012
Sweden134 Posts
July 08 2012 03:41 GMT
#549
I don't know. I feel it's safer for the tracker to claim if he has information that can prevent a mislynch. If he doesn't possess this information it doesn't matter if he claims or not. If he can clear suspicion of just one player we can wait until closer to night and see if the lynch is destined for that player, in which case he can claim. If he has evidence against mafia he should claim immediately, this is however very unlikely since there is still a Miller in play.

If he claims both me and him have a 50/50 chance to die. If he doesn't have to claim at all the medic can save me instead.

On me faking this claim. I have already made a case for my innocence. I also believe my role claim is further proof for my innocence (if you want me to elaborate this please ask).

Note: The tracker might also be a she so replace the "he"s for "she"s if necessary.
Evulrabbitz
Profile Joined July 2012
Sweden134 Posts
July 08 2012 03:43 GMT
#550
In the event a mafia player does NOT use his role, he will be tracked to the kill target.


The only threat to the credibility of the Trackers information is the Miller.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
July 08 2012 03:43 GMT
#551
This is practically non-existent for analysis, but I'm tired as shit. But does anyone else think this is completely absurd?

On July 07 2012 10:00 Release wrote:
Fuck fuck fuck fuck.

From what i see, the scum has to be Lazer and Jingle (maybe Harry)


That wasn't the only time he accused me and Lazer of working together, either. He said it at least twice while we were going at it. And since a large portion of my case against Lazer was predicated on my misread of hopeless, I may dislike Lazer intensely, but I can't really still justify a case against him.

But, given that Hopeless flipped red, and the case against lazer almost killed Lazer instead (Release had his vote on Lazer all of D1, longer than even me), Release looks fishy to me right now. Thoughts?
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
July 08 2012 03:47 GMT
#552
Oh, and also, just to point out, if a scum was actually going to fakeclaim DT, the last person they'd call a townie is me, with me set up to be a mislynch led by a confirmed townie.

Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
July 08 2012 03:47 GMT
#553
It'll be pretty easy to build a case on Release on meta - he has 3 games with town-alligned history. In addition, there have been some really really suspicious posts by him so far, this one being the worst:

On July 07 2012 15:19 Release wrote:
Well i read the Jingle case and i can't disagree with it.

But it makes me uncomfortable to feel that he is scum, because then YourHarry would be the other scum (those two had a little OMGUS battle and then suddenly reconciled, great way to clutter the thread), leaving no place for Lazer to be scum, which i still think is true. And mackin...


Indecisive on Jingle case, points fingers at a bunch of players for zero justification, etc.



a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Evulrabbitz
Profile Joined July 2012
Sweden134 Posts
July 08 2012 04:03 GMT
#554
But, where did that suspicion on me go? For a moment there, on page 10, there was suspicion on me and poof... It suddenly vanished? Maybe both of them went to sleep after they posted that, they sure left in a hurry


This was regarding my case against Release early on. There was a lot going on, but I still find it odd that you didn't even attempt to defend yourself.

caught up and evul has wasted a hell of a lot of time talking about circumstance/hypothetical scenarios about D1, despite the fact that we have passed day 1.

He also tried the if this, then that bullshit. I don't really see what town motivation would cause this, but as a scum, it's trying to survive without an analytical basis.


This is just plain false. Exactly that reasoning was a proof of my innocence (unless both me and Lazer are mafia, in which case my whole argumentation would fall). Now that we know both Lazer and I can't be mafia the "waste of time" you are talking about is solid proof I am innocent.
BassInSpace
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia165 Posts
July 08 2012 04:05 GMT
#555
Regarding Release:

If anything made him look fishy to me, it's his willingness to jump on Lazer (again) based on what is obviously a typo (to put it in Release's own words against Lazer awhile ago, "grasping at straws"), and the vote switch to Jingle without much explanation at all. The post he made listing detective claims could also have been an attempt at making a useful post without actually being all that useful, but this could be stretching it too far.
Evulrabbitz
Profile Joined July 2012
Sweden134 Posts
July 08 2012 04:06 GMT
#556
I don't think I need to state this, but I'm going to do it anyway.

Being able to provide evidence of a player's alignment is townie play, regardless of the alignment proven.
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
July 08 2012 04:37 GMT
#557
Its worth saying that its consistent with Release's town-alligned meta to mindlessly chase one player down, even to the point of being a detriment to the town. Since a lot of us are throwing are suspicions at him, I'll do a more comprehensive meta analysis of him tomorrow. I do think there are some key differences between townie Release and this-game's Release though.

Also, we should look at Lazer's case of The_Zen_Man and decide who's the more suspicious.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349066&currentpage=25#492

Bass's case against Mackin still stand as well.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
July 08 2012 04:43 GMT
#558
On July 08 2012 13:05 BassInSpace wrote:
Regarding Release:

If anything made him look fishy to me, it's his willingness to jump on Lazer (again) based on what is obviously a typo (to put it in Release's own words against Lazer awhile ago, "grasping at straws"), and the vote switch to Jingle without much explanation at all. The post he made listing detective claims could also have been an attempt at making a useful post without actually being all that useful, but this could be stretching it too far.

I asked for clarification and he wasn't giving it. He just made that post so i assumed he would be online. Typos tend to get corrected instantly or very quickly. He took quite a while to respond. Leaving his post as it was made it extremely ambiguous as to the actual meaning of his post. And he also included an "all townies must agree with me" clause, which could be used as "evidence" against anyone because they can't agree two a contradictory statement.

And i unvoted him

##unvote: Jinglehell
in light of what recently happened.
☺
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
July 08 2012 04:44 GMT
#559
EBWOP: two ---> to
☺
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
July 08 2012 04:49 GMT
#560
Oh yeah, since I haven't already done so:

##Unvote: JingleHell
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
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