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SSB-64 Mafia - Page 6

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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talismania
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States2364 Posts
July 02 2012 03:31 GMT
#101
hokay so mister saturn and cephiro are both samus then (or grush is lying).

hey toad was alignment generated randomly or not?

I got my first pick.
NoSmurfHere
Profile Joined June 2012
New Zealand613 Posts
July 02 2012 03:39 GMT
#102
The following statement is true. The previous statement is false.
Probulous
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3894 Posts
July 02 2012 04:50 GMT
#103
LOL, this shit is crazy. Good luck guys. Obs me Toad!
"Dude has some really interesting midgame switches that I wouldn't have expected. "I violated your house" into "HIHO THE DAIRY OH!" really threw me. You don't usually expect children's poetry harass as a follow up " - AmericanUmlaut
kingdedede
Profile Joined June 2012
Kazakhstan80 Posts
July 02 2012 08:53 GMT
#104
Hi fellow Nintendo-citizens!

We are Yoshi! We talked it over and it seemed best to just come straight out and roleclaim, because bus drivers can be pretty damned destructive and chaotic if used badly. However, they can also be awesome. We will use it as an interesting twisted medic, meaning we will drive from someone we read as town to someone we read as scum! This obviously works better when scum doesn't know beforehand who is being protected and targeted, so we won't announce our actions beforehand, but after the night is over we will say exactly what we did, and why.

We feel a mass claim would be a pretty good idea now in any case. That way scum roleblockers can't hide (or can be caught if scum lies about their role/target) and everybody can be held accountable for their actions.

More advantages of mass claim: it makes it so that if there's a Mario we can have them be randomized separately, then randomize everybody else: sucks if you get stuck with a Mario, but at least you don't take damage AND lose the item as you would using Hiro's completely random generation (which I think is a good idea). Ensures optimal item distribution and minimizes random damage!

/Artanis and Acro
kingdedede
Profile Joined June 2012
Kazakhstan80 Posts
July 02 2012 09:20 GMT
#105
I (Acro) am completely new to SSB-mafia. Am I correct in saying the stage we have (Hyrule) is a random 1 in 3 chance of taking damage? If that's the case I suggest we do a similar thing as HiroPro suggested for items: I see no reason why random damage is good for town. Lets distribute ourselvelves randomly with 3 to the left, 3 in the middle and 2 on the right of the stage. We can use the same script as for random item positions: first 3 go left, second 3 go middle, last 2 go right.

/Acro
HomerunBat
Profile Joined June 2012
Oman114 Posts
July 02 2012 11:03 GMT
#106
I must admit, I have a hard time believing a bus driver being town-aligned, given the random (at least I assume so) distribution of alignment it is not out of the realm of possibility though. I disagree about mass claiming now. Why do you want to give scum the only information they are lacking?
Also regarding the split on hyrule I do not think it would be beneficial, spreading makes sure that at least some of us will get tornado damage( since it is random) also there is no benefit for spreading randomly, we will get stock changes by the next daypost and it would be much better for town if we avoid unnecessary damage

-Shiao
*PING*
kingdedede
Profile Joined June 2012
Kazakhstan80 Posts
July 02 2012 12:34 GMT
#107
So how do you propose to avoid random damage? If we all pile onto one field, we have a 1/3 chance of everybody taking damage (and 2/3 of everybody avoiding it, I did think of that before proposing the uniform distribution). If we distribute evenly then yes, some people will always take damage, but we don't run the risk of everybody taking a 0.5 stock blast.

And yes, random damage is random, so you can't make any sense of it or avoid it by clever play. All we can do is try to mitigate the damage it does to town. How do you propose to "avoid unnecessary damage" when the damage is random?

Also, we're town, so however Toad distributed alignments, it didn't include making us scum. Trying to find scum by wifoming about the mod's method of role distribution is a pretty bad way of scumhunting in any case.

On the mass claim: sure, it gives scum information, but it also means they can't hide behind their role and can be caught out on lies. It means they are forced to use their powers in a pro-town way. We know everybody has powers, so scum knows that too. They also already know 3 out of the 5 roles (I see no reason for grush to be lying about something that can be caught out that easily, so Cephiro and Saturn seem to be Samus). They know their own roles. So far in all the weird setup games I've played (holy roman, bastard 2 for sure, space station and DFM2 to a certain extent), mass claims have worked well for town. It severely restricts scum's options on how to use their powers and makes them accountable.

As it is, if one of the samuses shoots someone (or a captain falcon) who flips town, we don't know who shot, whether it was a bus drive or what the hell happened. If all roles are claimed and something doesn't add up, we can lynch that person.
kingdedede
Profile Joined June 2012
Kazakhstan80 Posts
July 02 2012 12:37 GMT
#108
^^ Acro btw.

I also propose all hydras have to sign their posts. Gets pretty chaotic otherwise. Shiao, Hiro and I have already started, so I presume we're all on-board with that
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
July 02 2012 12:39 GMT
#109
On July 02 2012 09:48 Mister Saturn wrote:
I wouldn't describe it as controlling the item grab for town; it just removes the information advantage that scum would normally have.

Also I have a way to randomize the item picking order, if Toad will allow it.

I can use Randomizer to reorder the player list from the first page. Someone will give me a random time to do it at (the website lists the time up to the second under the randomization result). And I can then post a screenshot of it as the random order.

Am I allowed to post a screenshot like this?


- Hiro

NO YOU'RE NOT. SAME AS THE ENCRYPTING THING FOR ME AND I'D LIKE TO KEEP IT SIMPLE HERE WITHOUT OUT OF THREAD GADGETS EVERYWHERE

On July 02 2012 12:31 talismania wrote:
hokay so mister saturn and cephiro are both samus then (or grush is lying).

hey toad was alignment generated randomly or not?

I got my first pick.

NO INFORMATION ON THAT ONE
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
July 02 2012 13:13 GMT
#110
SEND OUT ALL THE OBS PM'S. IF YOU WANT TO OBS AND DON'T HAVE A PM IN YOUR INBOX PM ONE OF THE HOSTS AND YOU'LL GET A LINK. PEOPLE WHO ARE PLAYING THIS GAME ARE OBVIOUSLY NOT ALLOWED TO JOIN THE OBS-QT.
PEOPLE WHO PLAN ON REPLACING IN, IN CASE ANYTHING HAPPENS SHOULD NOT PM FOR OBS-QT EITHER.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
iGrok
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5142 Posts
July 02 2012 13:31 GMT
#111
Don't mass claim day 1 please....
MOTM | Stim.tv | TL Mafia | Fantasy Fighting! | SNSD
Mister Saturn
Profile Joined June 2012
Vatican City State155 Posts
July 02 2012 14:49 GMT
#112
Hi, no mass role claims. It should be pretty obvious why this is a bad idea with roleblockers, bus drivers, and kirby's copy ability. Not to mention the fact of night kills alone......

I am samus, so as far as I know grush told the truth. We'll have to wait for Cephiro.

So for items/stages, how about we do it nice and simple with iGrok's way. So for items, first person goes top left, 2nd person goes top middle, etc. 7th and 8th get top left/top middle respectively.

I had some concern initially about doing it this way since iGrok was the one who suggested it and he happened to be first on the list... But thinking about first is actually not a great spot since you get doubled up with someone else.

And stages, I guess we can just split it up, so 1st,2nd,3rd get left; 4th, 5th, 6th get middle, etc.

You're taking this all caps thing very seriously Toad,

- Hiro
mmaaawww
Mister Saturn
Profile Joined June 2012
Vatican City State155 Posts
July 02 2012 14:53 GMT
#113
Oh wait, that's not the way iGrok suggested it. He was the guy who suggested having one person pick for everyone else. Well I like this way better. So let me know what you think. The deadline for those actions is not that far away, so we need everyone to decide on the plan quickly.

- Hiro
mmaaawww
kingdedede
Profile Joined June 2012
Kazakhstan80 Posts
July 02 2012 15:03 GMT
#114
On July 02 2012 23:53 Mister Saturn wrote:
Oh wait, that's not the way iGrok suggested it. He was the guy who suggested having one person pick for everyone else. Well I like this way better. So let me know what you think. The deadline for those actions is not that far away, so we need everyone to decide on the plan quickly.

- Hiro


Talked to Artanis: we're fine with that way of doing item placement (at least for D1). I still prefer it if Marios claim and we don't risk damage for stupid reasons, but I can't force anybody else to claim.

What do you think of splitting in a similar way for tornados? Or do you think we should all pile onto a single tile and risk everybody taking .5 damage?

Also gonna play devil's advocate on the item placement distribution: if we allow everybody to choose their own spot there's the possibility of making connections between scum (hard, of course, if scum plays it smart, but at least it's theoretically possible). If we use randomized lists, or the initial ordering by Toad, then that connection is out the window.
Mister Saturn
Profile Joined June 2012
Vatican City State155 Posts
July 02 2012 15:22 GMT
#115
I thought about the single tile thing a little before. I'm not really sure on whether or not town benefits from having everyone's overall stock reduced (It doesn't change the number of lynches that it takes to kill a person). The thing is no matter what we do there for picking stage spots, the chance of a single person getting hit is still the same (which isn't true for the item picks). I guess piling onto a single tile removes the chance that only town gets hit while mafia gets away safe, but it also removes the opposite scenario from play. Thinking about it a little more now, I don't think there's all that much difference that a plan will make for the stage spot selection.


On July 03 2012 00:03 kingdedede wrote:
Also gonna play devil's advocate on the item placement distribution: if we allow everybody to choose their own spot there's the possibility of making connections between scum (hard, of course, if scum plays it smart, but at least it's theoretically possible). If we use randomized lists, or the initial ordering by Toad, then that connection is out the window.


I talked about this in my first post. I don't think there's much we can analyze from that since not only are there six spots and only eight characters, but mafia is also well aware of the fact that if they play too optimally they could get exposed in the late game.

I think it's better to just remove the information advantage that mafia would normally possess.
mmaaawww
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
July 02 2012 15:28 GMT
#116
On July 02 2012 23:49 Mister Saturn wrote:
You're taking this all caps thing very seriously Toad,

I HAVE TO. IT'S THE LAW!

ALSO A REMINDER

WE NEED INFORMATION ON STAGE EVENTS AND ITEM PLACES BY THE END OF 22:30 GMT (+00:00).
IF YOU DON'T SEND IN STAGE EVENT INFORMATION YOU WILL GET HIT BY A TORNADO NO MATTER WHAT.
IF YOU DON'T SEND IN ITEM INFORMATION YOU WON'T GET A CHANCE TO GET AN ITEM BUT ALSO WON'T GET HIT IF SOMEONE ELSE IS IN THE SAME PLACE, SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO SEND THAT IN
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
July 02 2012 15:38 GMT
#117
Do we get told what everyone picked for stage and item spots? Will we know what the item was or who got it?
talismania
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States2364 Posts
July 02 2012 15:53 GMT
#118
so given toad's latest clarification the best thing to do w/ regard to the item seems to be to have two people sit out until we have six players remaining. We then rotate who sits out so everyone gets a turn.

I volunteer to sit out trying to get an item today - I will not be sending in an item drop placement.
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
July 02 2012 15:58 GMT
#119
On July 03 2012 00:38 HiroPro wrote:
Do we get told what everyone picked for stage and item spots? Will we know what the item was or who got it?

YOU WILL BE TOLD WHAT ITEM DROPPED, YOU WILL BE INFORMED ABOUT WHO ENDED UP BEING DAMAGED IF SOMEONE GOT DAMAGED IN THE PROCESS AND YOU WILL BE INFORMED WHO ENDED UP PICKING UP THE ITEM IF SOMEONE ENDS UP PICKING IT UP

YOU WILL NOT BE TOLD WHO ENDED UP IN WHAT POSITION. NEITHER FOR ITEMS NOR FOR STAGE EVENTS.

ALSO KEEP IN MIND. STAGE EVENTS HAVE ONLY 3 POSSIBLE AREAS TO BE IN UNLESS STATED OTHERWISE.
ITEM DROPS CAN OCCUR IN 6 DIFFERENT AREAS.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
July 02 2012 16:15 GMT
#120
Thinking about the whole random damage stuff, I guess there really is no way to avoid the damage. But I would suggest all piling up in one spot, so if one gets damage all get it. It would add more transparency to the whole thing and we can easily make out if someone tries to avoid it.
If you don't like that idea, I am also open to the spread I guess. With more than 1 person in each zone, at least we can confirm if somebody dodged the zone if he did not get damage when the other one did.

Given toads reluctance to allow randomizer, we should probably get along with the plan iGrok laid out. At least it is a way to make item distribution more transparent.

LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
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