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On July 01 2012 06:18 strongandbig wrote:
This is ridiculous.
Zealos is scum, how can you guys not realize this?
Oberyn, you're missing something. If grey and I were really the last mafia, would we really let you kill us both and win the game? Herpderp.
And what is it that greymist said that suddenly makes you think mattchew is more likely to be scum than zealos?
I don't think Zealos is scum..
I don't think Prome/WBG/Nova/Fulla are scum.
I'm not sure about Mattchew.
So yeah, I could believe him saying Mattchew is scum.
If grey and I were really the last mafia, would we really let you kill us both and win the game? Herpderp.
Wut? You are not letting us kill you, you can't do shit to prevent us killing you, so you can't let us do anything.
Although I'm having my doubts about Grey now (yeah, unless he already thought he lost as scum or something I wouldn't see him acting like this if both of you were scum......although maybe it's a trap.....but then again I already made my intentions of reconsidering killing him and he's not "jumping on to the opportunity" which he would have as scum I believe).
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On July 01 2012 06:23 strongandbig wrote:
And greymist will you fucking answer my case? Anyone who has played enough magic should know instantly upon reading this setup that town loses if it's played as a normal multiplayer magic game. Why the fuck didn't you see that or if you did why did you still push it?
Because its terrible.
I said a normal magic game with a subgroup of allied players, and then even put a (lol) in parentheses.
The fact that you consider that evidence is shocking to me.
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On July 01 2012 06:23 strongandbig wrote:
And greymist will you fucking answer my case? Anyone who has played enough magic should know instantly upon reading this setup that town loses if it's played as a normal multiplayer magic game. Why the fuck didn't you see that or if you did why did you still push it?
Omg you are still going on about this, I can't believe it.
Stop please...just stop.
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GreYMisT, you plan on saving us tomorrow when its 8 + 12 right?
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On July 01 2012 06:30 Oberyn wrote:
GreYMisT, you plan on saving us tomorrow when its 8 + 12 right?
Why would he do this if he's scum?
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On July 01 2012 06:26 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 06:23 strongandbig wrote:
And greymist will you fucking answer my case? Anyone who has played enough magic should know instantly upon reading this setup that town loses if it's played as a normal multiplayer magic game. Why the fuck didn't you see that or if you did why did you still push it? Because its terrible. I said a normal magic game with a subgroup of allied players, and then even put a (lol) in parentheses. The fact that you consider that evidence is shocking to me.
That is a dramatic oversimplification of my case. It was in no way based on only that post. I'll repost it here:
On June 30 2012 02:24 strongandbig wrote:... That said: I still think Greymist is scummy. Here are some examples from his filter: He comes right out of the gate and says this: Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 15:58 GreYMisT wrote:On June 25 2012 15:11 Promethelax wrote:On June 25 2012 15:03 Nova_Terra wrote:Also wtf how is anyone okay with this On June 25 2012 08:59 GreYMisT wrote:
##Cast: Island
##Tap: Swamp, Island
##Cast: Winged Sliver flying I'm pretty scared actually. That deck is one that will get stronger every turn. I hate Slivers with a passion, when GreYMisT said he was using them I silently thanked god that I was just obs'ing. Mostly I'm trembling in my boots and hoping that GreY is town and figures out that I am too. So, what do you see that we can do during this first cycle where we can't attack that will help us pressure scum and actually gain something? I don't think there is any inherent advantage that deck revealing will give us. Our decks will be revealed in the first 2 turns, or this one just by the colors played. in addition, mafia don't need to have good decks at all to win this game. That being said I do not think that "planning out a card playing strategy" is a good idea at all. Treat this like a normal magic multiplayer game with a subgroup of mafia members (lol). If im in a game and my enemies lay out a strategy, I now know its weak points. While we lose coordination, I feel that is a good price to pay for not allowing the mafia to screw us. The above goes for the town as a whole. I understand the fear that my deck causes, and I am willing to accomidate a "soft claim" of my hand as the game progresses. The sliver strat really doesnt vary based on what knowledge my opponent has. Everyone can be rest assured that I'm not going to go wacko on everyone, I'm not dumb enough to play a sliver deck and make everyone an enemy. He even continues pushing this paradigm later: Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 22:48 GreYMisT wrote:On June 25 2012 22:00 Nova_Terra wrote:Whoa what is this Marv doesnt know what's happening o.o I feel like killing something with my fauna shaman  dammit summoning sickness Where did I put that heart sliver... A few pages back someone asked a question that missed, and it was along the lines of would mafia attack each other in the early game. I would agree. Mafia applying pressure to each other in the form of "kp" would be very dangerous the later the game goes on. One thing to remember is this is a magic game. I for example cannot go crazy and attack someone, because it would leave me open to be attacked by 8 other players. My deck will get very strong with time yes, but it's strength is weakened by the number of players that are against me.I do not see the advantages of a deck claim at this time. Would someone for it please enlighten me? And he also uses this logic when he's trying to rebut my everyone attack everyone plan. The thing is, if we treat this like a multiplayer magic game, we will lose. As I've said above, multiplayer magic games tend to be defensive. Greymist even acknowledges this, when he says that he will get attacked by too many other players if he gets too aggressive. That's how multiplayer magic games often go, for you who don't play much magic: when there's a lot of people they tend to gang up on whoever looks like they are "winning," and they try and build alliances by attacking people who initiate aggression on other players. That's a winning strategy when only one person can win; try and get the majority on your side and slowly whittle down the number of players. That's not a winning strategy when there's a time limit on the game, which the mafia monster effectively is. It's also not good strategy when you can win despite dying in the magic game, which is the case here. I also think this post is suspicious, but not for the reasons that you guys found it suspicious: Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 02:54 GreYMisT wrote:On June 26 2012 02:21 WereBugs-Go wrote:On June 26 2012 01:57 Promethelax wrote:On June 26 2012 01:39 WereBugs-Go wrote:Yeah I don't see a point in claiming at all. As already mentioned it's probably information that's only useful for mafia if at all. What good is it for you guys if you know my deck (which shouldn't be hard to guess at this point of time) anyways. Someone already pointed it out: Those were constructed pregame so all we get to know is what general gameplan someone has but that's not even helping. Let's say the green guy is not an elven guy but a "big green monster"-guy. If he were to claim that and ended up being town mafia would know that they don't have to deal with him early on at all. We can't adjust our strategy according to claims because we don't know if something "dangerous" is a huge asset for town or something really dangerous right now. And well... claiming colors... I'm sure everyone is able to read the other thread and figure that out themselves. Everyone was given the color that is most used in his / their deck and if you have someone with two islands, two mountains, two forrests or whatever else at this point of time that miiiight be a hint. I'd say we should start talking about stuff happening. Greymist what do you think of this post: On June 25 2012 15:03 Nova_Terra wrote:Also wtf how is anyone okay with this On June 25 2012 08:59 GreYMisT wrote:
##Cast: Island
##Tap: Swamp, Island
##Cast: Winged Sliver flying ? I like that post for a bunch of reasons, what about you?
Also as a sidenote about marv: Yeah he never played magic before. I'm explaining stuff to him in skype (or once he's back) but I'm starting with stuff like "okay, so you have an economy, like in SC. That economy are your lands and you can use that to play monster(s) or spells.... if you want to play something you have to tap your land(s)... if something is tapped you can't use it this turn anymore". So yeah it's really basic so far and I'll screw what I said earlier. I'll post a bit more than I intended to the first couple of cycles if we keeps talking about magic "theory". He could talk about that but that'd be nothing than just blabbering what I told him in skype about it :p so lets' talk mafia instead. Since there is no day one lynch we have an attack phase to work out, so far none of us have creatures with haste (although Matt might, where is he anyway?) so none of us will be doing damage with creatures. However some of us must have spells that deal damage, do we use them now or later and who do we target? Why? Since attacking is our lynch equivalent we should be talking about it. So far we have wasted a day talking about mechanics (which, maybe, hasn't been a waste since this set up is new to all of us). We should move on to something where mafia can't just play follow the leader and has to make some statements for themselves, how should we as town do damage? Do we each attack the guy we have the scummiest read on or do we all work together to kill one guy or do we intentionally spread the damage around so that everyone gets a taste? What does everyone think? and why? yeah but that again is talking about the set-up. Wether or not we should use spells or whatnot. We can't waste another day on talking about how we want to to stuff. I'd rather talk about who gets to be the target for what reason and than talk about how we're doing it. That's why I quoted that one post from Terra to talk about stuff like that. On June 26 2012 02:01 GreYMisT wrote:
If you need help with anything marc, just ask. I've been teaching magic to people for a long time.
I'm not sure What you mean by "I like this post" (if it was sarcastic or what not). I think he just doesn't like my slivers Why are you dodging this one? As I already said I like that one post for a reason. I want to know with what mindset you're playing this game and if you're looking for the same things I am looking for. Apparently the post I quoted did not catch your interest when it should have. He didn't say he dislikes your slivers. He asked why noone else has a problem with something that potentially makes a shitton of your monsters fliers. He's scared about that card of yours. Sure that could be a clever mafia tricking us but do you think a mafia would be scared about something like that? If he was he'd just take you out early on. This looks like a townie being scared to face someone with a shitton of fliers because he thinks he's not prepared for that in the way he'd like to. Or it's a mafia who thinks it's easy to get people on you with a cheap argument if people consider this dangerous as well. Why are you not paying attention to stuff like that? That's why I quoted it because I think it's a post people could have opinions about while all the other "let's talk about mechanics posts" are easy to do no matter of alignment. That post however is either townish influence or mafia influenced and people should be bound to have an opinion about stuff like that. Why should his post concern me? I read it as someone, mafia or town, who is afraid of a shitton of flying creatures, which is a mechanic actually not seen alot in the standard play these days. In addition, Nova is running green, which traditionally does not have a lot of flying creatures unless he has spiders with reach. The fact is there are any number of reasons that a town player or a mafia player would react that way. What is important is to watch his actions. He has expressed concern over my future power, but hasnt commited to rallying people against me. because his post could be interpreted in so many different ways, including as scared comment from a old magic player familiar with slivers, I choose not to read too much into it until I have more information. In light of Nova's other posts he reads town to me at the moment. he is being a fairly positive communicator. Here is how I will be approaching this game, knowing I am a fairly big focus atm just due to my deck choice. I will play a sliver each turn if able, and I will not hold them back "for the good of the town". why? because think of it this way: by not playing slivers and just building my lands, Town does not know what powers I have in my hand, and it increases my potential of dropping 3 in one turn, surprising the town. I am against withholding information that could be useful to the town, so this is the way I will proceed. This is different than my stance on others deck claiming because deck claiming is not useful for people whose decks have not been revealed. Slivers, unfortunately, don't have much capability to help others, however I do have one in my deck that can. If I have the ability to play Cautery Sliver, I will above any other. First bolded: His reason for building up and playing a sliver each turn is "to not keep information from town." That's bullshit. What is in our decks or hands doesn't tell us crap about alignments, since decks were submitted before knowing alignments. The real town reason for building up and playing creatures each turn would be "I want to build up my power because I'm town and I want to fucking kill scum." It's that simple. That's why I have been playing and will continue to play zombies. Second bolded: also BS. Cautery sliver is freaking terrible. It sacs a sliver, thus removing an ability from all his other slivers, to prevent one single damage. That doesn't do crap for town, but it makes it easy to seem town because you're sacrificing your own power to help others. I'll say it again: giving up your own powers to help other townies is NOT automatically a town action. It is ONLY town when the power you help other people gain is GREATER than the power you're giving up to do so. That's because the whole town has the same objective (to kill scum) and is equally confirmed / non-confirmed at this point. It's the total power that matters, more than the distribution.
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On July 01 2012 06:30 Oberyn wrote:
GreYMisT, you plan on saving us tomorrow when its 8 + 12 right?
You'll have to not use abbreviations at the moment. Im tired and frustrated (other things besides this game).
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And where is nova? And where in the hell is marvellosity?
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On July 01 2012 06:36 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 06:30 Oberyn wrote:
GreYMisT, you plan on saving us tomorrow when its 8 + 12 right? You'll have to not use abbreviations at the moment. Im tired and frustrated (other things besides this game).
The two attacks from the mafia creature. You have the ability to prevent 1 damage with your sliver, right?
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On July 01 2012 06:36 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 06:26 GreYMisT wrote:On July 01 2012 06:23 strongandbig wrote:
And greymist will you fucking answer my case? Anyone who has played enough magic should know instantly upon reading this setup that town loses if it's played as a normal multiplayer magic game. Why the fuck didn't you see that or if you did why did you still push it? Because its terrible. I said a normal magic game with a subgroup of allied players, and then even put a (lol) in parentheses. The fact that you consider that evidence is shocking to me. That is a dramatic oversimplification of my case. It was in no way based on only that post. I'll repost it here: Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 02:24 strongandbig wrote:... That said: I still think Greymist is scummy. Here are some examples from his filter: He comes right out of the gate and says this: On June 25 2012 15:58 GreYMisT wrote:On June 25 2012 15:11 Promethelax wrote:On June 25 2012 15:03 Nova_Terra wrote:Also wtf how is anyone okay with this On June 25 2012 08:59 GreYMisT wrote:
##Cast: Island
##Tap: Swamp, Island
##Cast: Winged Sliver flying I'm pretty scared actually. That deck is one that will get stronger every turn. I hate Slivers with a passion, when GreYMisT said he was using them I silently thanked god that I was just obs'ing. Mostly I'm trembling in my boots and hoping that GreY is town and figures out that I am too. So, what do you see that we can do during this first cycle where we can't attack that will help us pressure scum and actually gain something? I don't think there is any inherent advantage that deck revealing will give us. Our decks will be revealed in the first 2 turns, or this one just by the colors played. in addition, mafia don't need to have good decks at all to win this game. That being said I do not think that "planning out a card playing strategy" is a good idea at all. Treat this like a normal magic multiplayer game with a subgroup of mafia members (lol). If im in a game and my enemies lay out a strategy, I now know its weak points. While we lose coordination, I feel that is a good price to pay for not allowing the mafia to screw us. The above goes for the town as a whole. I understand the fear that my deck causes, and I am willing to accomidate a "soft claim" of my hand as the game progresses. The sliver strat really doesnt vary based on what knowledge my opponent has. Everyone can be rest assured that I'm not going to go wacko on everyone, I'm not dumb enough to play a sliver deck and make everyone an enemy. He even continues pushing this paradigm later: On June 25 2012 22:48 GreYMisT wrote:On June 25 2012 22:00 Nova_Terra wrote:Whoa what is this Marv doesnt know what's happening o.o I feel like killing something with my fauna shaman dammit summoning sickness Where did I put that heart sliver... A few pages back someone asked a question that missed, and it was along the lines of would mafia attack each other in the early game. I would agree. Mafia applying pressure to each other in the form of "kp" would be very dangerous the later the game goes on. One thing to remember is this is a magic game. I for example cannot go crazy and attack someone, because it would leave me open to be attacked by 8 other players. My deck will get very strong with time yes, but it's strength is weakened by the number of players that are against me.I do not see the advantages of a deck claim at this time. Would someone for it please enlighten me? And he also uses this logic when he's trying to rebut my everyone attack everyone plan. The thing is, if we treat this like a multiplayer magic game, we will lose. As I've said above, multiplayer magic games tend to be defensive. Greymist even acknowledges this, when he says that he will get attacked by too many other players if he gets too aggressive. That's how multiplayer magic games often go, for you who don't play much magic: when there's a lot of people they tend to gang up on whoever looks like they are "winning," and they try and build alliances by attacking people who initiate aggression on other players. That's a winning strategy when only one person can win; try and get the majority on your side and slowly whittle down the number of players. That's not a winning strategy when there's a time limit on the game, which the mafia monster effectively is. It's also not good strategy when you can win despite dying in the magic game, which is the case here. I also think this post is suspicious, but not for the reasons that you guys found it suspicious: On June 26 2012 02:54 GreYMisT wrote:On June 26 2012 02:21 WereBugs-Go wrote:On June 26 2012 01:57 Promethelax wrote:On June 26 2012 01:39 WereBugs-Go wrote:Yeah I don't see a point in claiming at all. As already mentioned it's probably information that's only useful for mafia if at all. What good is it for you guys if you know my deck (which shouldn't be hard to guess at this point of time) anyways. Someone already pointed it out: Those were constructed pregame so all we get to know is what general gameplan someone has but that's not even helping. Let's say the green guy is not an elven guy but a "big green monster"-guy. If he were to claim that and ended up being town mafia would know that they don't have to deal with him early on at all. We can't adjust our strategy according to claims because we don't know if something "dangerous" is a huge asset for town or something really dangerous right now. And well... claiming colors... I'm sure everyone is able to read the other thread and figure that out themselves. Everyone was given the color that is most used in his / their deck and if you have someone with two islands, two mountains, two forrests or whatever else at this point of time that miiiight be a hint. I'd say we should start talking about stuff happening. Greymist what do you think of this post: On June 25 2012 15:03 Nova_Terra wrote:Also wtf how is anyone okay with this On June 25 2012 08:59 GreYMisT wrote:
##Cast: Island
##Tap: Swamp, Island
##Cast: Winged Sliver flying ? I like that post for a bunch of reasons, what about you?
Also as a sidenote about marv: Yeah he never played magic before. I'm explaining stuff to him in skype (or once he's back) but I'm starting with stuff like "okay, so you have an economy, like in SC. That economy are your lands and you can use that to play monster(s) or spells.... if you want to play something you have to tap your land(s)... if something is tapped you can't use it this turn anymore". So yeah it's really basic so far and I'll screw what I said earlier. I'll post a bit more than I intended to the first couple of cycles if we keeps talking about magic "theory". He could talk about that but that'd be nothing than just blabbering what I told him in skype about it :p so lets' talk mafia instead. Since there is no day one lynch we have an attack phase to work out, so far none of us have creatures with haste (although Matt might, where is he anyway?) so none of us will be doing damage with creatures. However some of us must have spells that deal damage, do we use them now or later and who do we target? Why? Since attacking is our lynch equivalent we should be talking about it. So far we have wasted a day talking about mechanics (which, maybe, hasn't been a waste since this set up is new to all of us). We should move on to something where mafia can't just play follow the leader and has to make some statements for themselves, how should we as town do damage? Do we each attack the guy we have the scummiest read on or do we all work together to kill one guy or do we intentionally spread the damage around so that everyone gets a taste? What does everyone think? and why? yeah but that again is talking about the set-up. Wether or not we should use spells or whatnot. We can't waste another day on talking about how we want to to stuff. I'd rather talk about who gets to be the target for what reason and than talk about how we're doing it. That's why I quoted that one post from Terra to talk about stuff like that. On June 26 2012 02:01 GreYMisT wrote:
If you need help with anything marc, just ask. I've been teaching magic to people for a long time.
I'm not sure What you mean by "I like this post" (if it was sarcastic or what not). I think he just doesn't like my slivers Why are you dodging this one? As I already said I like that one post for a reason. I want to know with what mindset you're playing this game and if you're looking for the same things I am looking for. Apparently the post I quoted did not catch your interest when it should have. He didn't say he dislikes your slivers. He asked why noone else has a problem with something that potentially makes a shitton of your monsters fliers. He's scared about that card of yours. Sure that could be a clever mafia tricking us but do you think a mafia would be scared about something like that? If he was he'd just take you out early on. This looks like a townie being scared to face someone with a shitton of fliers because he thinks he's not prepared for that in the way he'd like to. Or it's a mafia who thinks it's easy to get people on you with a cheap argument if people consider this dangerous as well. Why are you not paying attention to stuff like that? That's why I quoted it because I think it's a post people could have opinions about while all the other "let's talk about mechanics posts" are easy to do no matter of alignment. That post however is either townish influence or mafia influenced and people should be bound to have an opinion about stuff like that. Why should his post concern me? I read it as someone, mafia or town, who is afraid of a shitton of flying creatures, which is a mechanic actually not seen alot in the standard play these days. In addition, Nova is running green, which traditionally does not have a lot of flying creatures unless he has spiders with reach. The fact is there are any number of reasons that a town player or a mafia player would react that way. What is important is to watch his actions. He has expressed concern over my future power, but hasnt commited to rallying people against me. because his post could be interpreted in so many different ways, including as scared comment from a old magic player familiar with slivers, I choose not to read too much into it until I have more information. In light of Nova's other posts he reads town to me at the moment. he is being a fairly positive communicator. Here is how I will be approaching this game, knowing I am a fairly big focus atm just due to my deck choice. I will play a sliver each turn if able, and I will not hold them back "for the good of the town". why? because think of it this way: by not playing slivers and just building my lands, Town does not know what powers I have in my hand, and it increases my potential of dropping 3 in one turn, surprising the town. I am against withholding information that could be useful to the town, so this is the way I will proceed. This is different than my stance on others deck claiming because deck claiming is not useful for people whose decks have not been revealed. Slivers, unfortunately, don't have much capability to help others, however I do have one in my deck that can. If I have the ability to play Cautery Sliver, I will above any other. First bolded: His reason for building up and playing a sliver each turn is "to not keep information from town." That's bullshit. What is in our decks or hands doesn't tell us crap about alignments, since decks were submitted before knowing alignments. The real town reason for building up and playing creatures each turn would be "I want to build up my power because I'm town and I want to fucking kill scum." It's that simple. That's why I have been playing and will continue to play zombies. Second bolded: also BS. Cautery sliver is freaking terrible. It sacs a sliver, thus removing an ability from all his other slivers, to prevent one single damage. That doesn't do crap for town, but it makes it easy to seem town because you're sacrificing your own power to help others. I'll say it again: giving up your own powers to help other townies is NOT automatically a town action. It is ONLY town when the power you help other people gain is GREATER than the power you're giving up to do so. That's because the whole town has the same objective (to kill scum) and is equally confirmed / non-confirmed at this point. It's the total power that matters, more than the distribution.
The rest isn't worth responding to.
I know that what is in my hand does not make me town or scum. But not hiding it does not make me scum.
You case is very, very, very weak. and it is mostly based on everyone's "ideal" strategy and decks in multiplayer magic to be the same. I am running slivers. It is better for me personally to be defensive because I can give myself life. I don't beleive in Defense and waiting in multiplayer magic. I believe in control. I have said before that waiting is bad for town.
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On July 01 2012 06:38 Oberyn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 06:36 GreYMisT wrote:On July 01 2012 06:30 Oberyn wrote:
GreYMisT, you plan on saving us tomorrow when its 8 + 12 right? You'll have to not use abbreviations at the moment. Im tired and frustrated (other things besides this game). The two attacks from the mafia creature. You have the ability to prevent 1 damage with your sliver, right?
If I had it yea, but Cautery sliver is not in my hand. I couldn't even play it if I drew it this turn because it costs a mountain. assuming perfect draws it would take 2 turns to get it.
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S&B that "case" based on the "Magic Multiplayer" stuff is obviously bullshit and anyone can see it, here:
- Even if Grey was scum, at that point he wouldn't have made such an analysis like you said that determines that playing like Magic Multiplayer would increase their chances of winning
- Even if he was scum and figured that out, he wouldn't have possibly hoped that town would actually follow that plan, since it obviously wouldn't work at all (what, every townie would just say "Okay from now on I'll 100% play this like a Magic Multiplayer game without taking anything else into account, see you later!" and let scum win?)
- You said that it was "not a winning strategy", and well, imagine you are right....how does that make him scum? This is the 1st time this type of game is played, and it's a very complex one and nobody knows shit about it, how do you expect Greymist to know every single strategy about this game and which one is better for scum and which one is better for town?
This should be obvious to anyone...yet it's the only reason you are "pushing" Greymist.
Every other reason people have used against Greymist you brushed off as "He's just frustrated, he could have easily done that as town", yet you find him suspicious for an obviously shitty reason.
So you brush off good reasons for thinking he's scum, but FoS him for shitty ones...
Grey may be right, you "defend" Grey against the "heavy accusations", but find him suspicious for shitty ones. That way if he flips town you'll just say "I guess I was wrong about my reason...yeah in hindsight it was pretty shitty!" but end up with town cred since you were "right" about the "heavy accusations" against Greymist
Damn, although I'll wait for other people's opinion on it.
On July 01 2012 06:32 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 06:30 Oberyn wrote:
GreYMisT, you plan on saving us tomorrow when its 8 + 12 right? Why would he do this if he's scum?
That was kita
Kita was under the impression that Grey had that "Prevent 1 damage" Sliver card in play >_>
/gonzaw
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On July 01 2012 06:49 Oberyn wrote:S&B that "case" based on the "Magic Multiplayer" stuff is obviously bullshit and anyone can see it, here: - Even if Grey was scum, at that point he wouldn't have made such an analysis like you said that determines that playing like Magic Multiplayer would increase their chances of winning
- Even if he was scum and figured that out, he wouldn't have possibly hoped that town would actually follow that plan, since it obviously wouldn't work at all (what, every townie would just say "Okay from now on I'll 100% play this like a Magic Multiplayer game without taking anything else into account, see you later!" and let scum win?)
- You said that it was "not a winning strategy", and well, imagine you are right....how does that make him scum? This is the 1st time this type of game is played, and it's a very complex one and nobody knows shit about it, how do you expect Greymist to know every single strategy about this game and which one is better for scum and which one is better for town?
This should be obvious to anyone...yet it's the only reason you are "pushing" Greymist. Every other reason people have used against Greymist you brushed off as "He's just frustrated, he could have easily done that as town", yet you find him suspicious for an obviously shitty reason. So you brush off good reasons for thinking he's scum, but FoS him for shitty ones... Grey may be right, you "defend" Grey against the "heavy accusations", but find him suspicious for shitty ones. That way if he flips town you'll just say "I guess I was wrong about my reason...yeah in hindsight it was pretty shitty!" but end up with town cred since you were "right" about the "heavy accusations" against Greymist Damn, although I'll wait for other people's opinion on it. Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 06:32 strongandbig wrote:On July 01 2012 06:30 Oberyn wrote:
GreYMisT, you plan on saving us tomorrow when its 8 + 12 right? Why would he do this if he's scum? That was kita Kita was under the impression that Grey had that "Prevent 1 damage" Sliver card in play >_> /gonzaw
Well it didn't help that greymist completely refused to address the point in any way shape or form. When someone tries to ignore a point and hope it goes away it makes me feel better about the point, not worse.
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On July 01 2012 06:37 strongandbig wrote:
And where is nova? And where in the hell is marvellosity?
Who's the 2nd scum?
Tell me what you think about Mattchew, do you think he could be the 2nd scum?
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On July 01 2012 06:08 Oberyn wrote:We could win the game next turn! Come on guys! ....damn I'm getting overexcited again 
hmm is like we are missing something here.... oh yea that's right, if your wrong you lose the game next turn.
just thought i would bring that to light
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On July 01 2012 06:51 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 06:08 Oberyn wrote:We could win the game next turn! Come on guys! ....damn I'm getting overexcited again hmm is like we are missing something here.... oh yea that's right, if your wrong you lose the game next turn. just thought i would bring that to light
You think S&B is scum, I plan on attacking S&B tomorrow.....
...I'm actually giving you the benefit of the doubt so we don't kill you tomorrow as well
Really Grey, I don't get what you are doing 
Are you not confident on your S&B+Mattchew read?
Hell I don't know, you haven't even mentioned Mattchew yet or why he could be scum.
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On July 01 2012 06:51 Oberyn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 06:37 strongandbig wrote:
And where is nova? And where in the hell is marvellosity? Who's the 2nd scum? Tell me what you think about Mattchew, do you think he could be the 2nd scum?
Maybe. The game has basically consisted of you obsessing over greymist and later me, and everyone else sheeping you, with a few attacks on fulla and zealos thrown in. There hasn't been any pressure on mattchew to do anything but lurk. Same is true for fulla pretty much (I guess everyone thinks he's town because he told us he has burn spells?) and some other players.
Zealos is scum. And Oberyn I think you have a good chance of being scum. If the mafia don't kill you when their monster has 12 power I think you are 100% scum.
Here's a little list of things you've been doing this game that make me think you are scum:
Major things:
- ridiculous overposting despite being well aware that it's damaging both the town atmosphere and the ability to find scum
- ridiculous overconfidence in your reads for unjustified reasons
- changing reads for no reason on Zealos despite Zealos not having done jack shit except say "your case on me is dumb" to both me and greymist
- total willingness to accept people who sheep him as town for little to no reason (examples: promethelax, mattchew, fulla)
- flip-flopping on the "town beast" plan - it's no longer controlled by everyone in the game, just by the people that he "thinks are town" - this is completely contrary to the logic he used to get town to go along with the plan
Minor things:
- tap lurkers' mana plan on day 1, despite not knowing anything about their alignment (odds are good that this will hurt town)
- opposition to my plan for having people attack
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If you get killed by the mafia and flip town then I think the last scum is probably one of mattchew, greymist, fulla, or promethelax - but none of them have really ever been under pressure so it's harder to say.
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ebwop well obviously greymist has been under pressure, i meant the other three
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There is another "strategy" we can make tomorrow, which is bringing people's HP down depending on their chance to be scum. That way if we fuck up pretty bad and "lynch" 1 or 2 townies, then the other scummy guy we didn't notice will still have his HP down.
For instance, if we have 48 damage, we can do something like this:
Damage received:
Oberyn: 0 (I already have 12 HP why would you want me to have less?)
WBG: 2
Nova: 3
Promethelax: 4
Fulla: 5
Zealos: 6
Greymist: 8
Mattchew: 10
S&B: 10
Or something like that, that way the people we think is scum all have 10 or less HP so we can easily get them killed in a next turn, but the people we think are town but are not really sure about still have 14-15 HP so if we are absolutely wrong and they are scum....at least they have less HP.
If we do this every turn it could work right? I mean, this turn nobody will die since Mafia's KP is 10, next turn me+kita, or the guy they attack today (if they don't attack us) can die, but that will be 1 less townie, but 2 turns to make the above strategy and maybe even kill both scum.
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EPT
