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On June 26 2012 06:58 GreYMisT wrote:
From what im getting, there are some fundamental problems with the "everyone attack" strat. The formost is that this is different than normal magic in that the declare attackers phase occurs at the same time for all players, and all of our permanents untap at the same time. therefore by attacking we really are not accomplishing much other than doing unpreventable damage to each other.
The goal is to make people commit to their reads, so we can analyze actions and justifications in the same way as we would in a normal mafia game. The damage is a side effect.
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On June 26 2012 07:07 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 06:58 GreYMisT wrote:
From what im getting, there are some fundamental problems with the "everyone attack" strat. The formost is that this is different than normal magic in that the declare attackers phase occurs at the same time for all players, and all of our permanents untap at the same time. therefore by attacking we really are not accomplishing much other than doing unpreventable damage to each other. The goal is to make people commit to their reads, so we can analyze actions and justifications in the same way as we would in a normal mafia game. The damage is a side effect.
So you say that everybody uses ALL of their creatures to attack, that way they are all untapped and can't be blocked? (that way everybody will be dealt damage 100%?)
What if someone refuses to attack with one of their monsters and keeps it to block himself? What if someone doesn't have a monster at all (like me) and can't attack?
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On June 26 2012 07:11 Oberyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 07:07 strongandbig wrote:On June 26 2012 06:58 GreYMisT wrote:
From what im getting, there are some fundamental problems with the "everyone attack" strat. The formost is that this is different than normal magic in that the declare attackers phase occurs at the same time for all players, and all of our permanents untap at the same time. therefore by attacking we really are not accomplishing much other than doing unpreventable damage to each other. The goal is to make people commit to their reads, so we can analyze actions and justifications in the same way as we would in a normal mafia game. The damage is a side effect. So you say that everybody uses ALL of their creatures to attack, that way they are all untapped and can't be blocked? (that way everybody will be dealt damage 100%?) What if someone refuses to attack with one of their monsters and keeps it to block himself? What if someone doesn't have a monster at all (like me) and can't attack?
If someone refuses to follow the plan then we do what we normally do, decide whether we think they're being dumb, or scummy. (I'm assuming that in the hypothetical situation where we do it, most people have agreed that it's a good idea.)
If you have no creatures, then you can't participate. It's null.
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On June 26 2012 07:07 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 06:58 GreYMisT wrote:
From what im getting, there are some fundamental problems with the "everyone attack" strat. The formost is that this is different than normal magic in that the declare attackers phase occurs at the same time for all players, and all of our permanents untap at the same time. therefore by attacking we really are not accomplishing much other than doing unpreventable damage to each other. The goal is to make people commit to their reads, so we can analyze actions and justifications in the same way as we would in a normal mafia game. The damage is a side effect.
What we have to realize is that if we just sit on our hands for the attack phase, it gives mafia full control over the following discussion. If only the mafia monster attacks, the mafia controls the only new piece of information introduced and can plan and spin that any way they want. If we all attack, it forces a non-anonymous stance for everybody with creatures available. No one has creatures with haste tho so this is all hypothetical until the second attack phase I guess.
/brother
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On June 26 2012 07:13 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 07:11 Oberyn wrote:On June 26 2012 07:07 strongandbig wrote:On June 26 2012 06:58 GreYMisT wrote:
From what im getting, there are some fundamental problems with the "everyone attack" strat. The formost is that this is different than normal magic in that the declare attackers phase occurs at the same time for all players, and all of our permanents untap at the same time. therefore by attacking we really are not accomplishing much other than doing unpreventable damage to each other. The goal is to make people commit to their reads, so we can analyze actions and justifications in the same way as we would in a normal mafia game. The damage is a side effect. So you say that everybody uses ALL of their creatures to attack, that way they are all untapped and can't be blocked? (that way everybody will be dealt damage 100%?) What if someone refuses to attack with one of their monsters and keeps it to block himself? What if someone doesn't have a monster at all (like me) and can't attack? If someone refuses to follow the plan then we do what we normally do, decide whether we think they're being dumb, or scummy. (I'm assuming that in the hypothetical situation where we do it, most people have agreed that it's a good idea.) If you have no creatures, then you can't participate. It's null.
What if I do have a creature I can summon....but I lie and say I don't have any? (that way I avoid the responsibility of having to attack someone)
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On June 26 2012 07:07 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 06:58 GreYMisT wrote:
From what im getting, there are some fundamental problems with the "everyone attack" strat. The formost is that this is different than normal magic in that the declare attackers phase occurs at the same time for all players, and all of our permanents untap at the same time. therefore by attacking we really are not accomplishing much other than doing unpreventable damage to each other. The goal is to make people commit to their reads, so we can analyze actions and justifications in the same way as we would in a normal mafia game. The damage is a side effect.
The problem I have is we are basically saying "yea I know there is a time limit because the mafia creature gets bigger every turn, so lets make our time limit even Stricter by reducing our lives!
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Hmm, I think I have an idea of what this is about.
I think this "lynch" setup is kind of like the Liar Game's Round B lynch, but in reverse.
In the Liar Game's Round B, you had to vote for the people you wanted to save, here it's the other way round, you "vote" for the people you want to kill, or more accurately you vote for the people you want to save....and you kill/attack the rest.
In the Liar Game, the player with the least amount of votes in Round B would get lynched, here the player with most amount of "votes" (i.e attacks) would get lynched (i.e would get his life reduced the most, and probably killed).
So if in the Liar Game you voted for players A, B, C and D, then in this game you attack somebody/anybody other than A, B, C or D (kind of an example, it kind of fits since there are so little players here).
There were various strategies done in the Liar Game, these were the basic 2:
1)Let everybody vote for whoever they want
2)Establish a consensus on who to lynch, and have everybody vote people other than those who would get lynched
In the Liar Game, (1) could get lots of townies lynched, and/or the lynch would not be clear at all; anybody at random could get lynched and town would have little control over it.
However you would get the most info since everybody has to act on their own, so it forces mafia to act and justify their actions
This happened on Days 1 and 2 basically (kind of)
With (2), you can easily control the lynch, but you get little info on people since they basically followed you and have to do what you say; they don't have to justify their actions
This happened on Days 4 and forwards mostly
I think it's the same here, I'll tell you why:
1)Let everybody attack anybody who they think is suspicious
2)Establish a consensus on who to kill, and have everybody attack this/these player/s
With (1), it could get a lot of townies to have little health, and/or the players with less health would not be clear at all, anybody at random could get killed or have their HP reduced.
However you would get the most info since everybody has to attack on their own, so it forces mafia to act and justify their actions
With (2), you can easily control the attacks on a certain player/s, but you get little info on people since they basically followed you and have to do what you say; they don't have to justify their actions.
So I think we should follow the example from the Liar Game, and since IMO these mechanics are slightly similar, at least in concept apply them here...
....yeah I kind of forgot what the "optimal" plan was in the Liar Game I'll have to go check again >_>
I think we could do something with the best of both worlds; not force everybody to attack, but set a consensus on who can be attacked so if anybody wants to attack they can attack those players, or something similar.
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*sigh* Mattchew you disappoint me
I say we tap his lands so he can't come at the last second and do something and avoid any consequences for lurking more than 24 hours into the game.
I'm going to the gym and when I'll come back I'll tap one of his lands if he doesn't show up.
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Okay I'm not going to the gym after all (lost my keys  )
Okay, sorry Mattchew when you come back, but you can't expect to be absent for more than 24 hours and expect everything to be all good and dandy. You are lucky we don't have policy lynches and stuff this game because of the mechanics.
##Tap: Island: Cast Minor Nuisance->Mattchew
I won't deal with lurking/inactivity without punishment.
Sorry kita if you wanted to use that Island for something else and shit.
Also Mattchew don't cry or anything, nobody can't attack or block with creatures this turn so it's not like I fucked up your game or anything.
Also if anybody else decides to lurk throughout the rest of the game they know we can punish them for it (Zealos I'm looking at you too, you better come here soon).
Anyways I feel like I may be acting like a dick, but if we have a way to punish lurkers then I saw we use it.
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I don't really know the format for spells that target other people, and their lands/creatures and stuff though.
Artanis, could you specify the correct format for spells thoroughly?
If Mattchew had 1 Swamp and 1 Island....how do I specify which one I was going to tap?
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On June 26 2012 07:17 Oberyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 07:13 strongandbig wrote:On June 26 2012 07:11 Oberyn wrote:On June 26 2012 07:07 strongandbig wrote:On June 26 2012 06:58 GreYMisT wrote:
From what im getting, there are some fundamental problems with the "everyone attack" strat. The formost is that this is different than normal magic in that the declare attackers phase occurs at the same time for all players, and all of our permanents untap at the same time. therefore by attacking we really are not accomplishing much other than doing unpreventable damage to each other. The goal is to make people commit to their reads, so we can analyze actions and justifications in the same way as we would in a normal mafia game. The damage is a side effect. So you say that everybody uses ALL of their creatures to attack, that way they are all untapped and can't be blocked? (that way everybody will be dealt damage 100%?) What if someone refuses to attack with one of their monsters and keeps it to block himself? What if someone doesn't have a monster at all (like me) and can't attack? If someone refuses to follow the plan then we do what we normally do, decide whether we think they're being dumb, or scummy. (I'm assuming that in the hypothetical situation where we do it, most people have agreed that it's a good idea.) If you have no creatures, then you can't participate. It's null. What if I do have a creature I can summon....but I lie and say I don't have any? (that way I avoid the responsibility of having to attack someone)
If you did that you would be weakend by having less creatures on the field and less amna to use since next turn when you drop the creature you would have to tap mana to summon it that couldn't be used for something else.
Mafia will have to decide if the risk is worth it, just like any other game
Oberyn: I like pushing the lurkers my only thought on Matt is that he may still think that the game started two and a half hours ago, not 26.5. I know I thought that. I'm more worried about Zealos who has come into the thread and given us nothing to work with. Not very Townie.
I also don't like GreY's actions so far his repeated assumption that it is better to not attack each other. We need something concrete to get reads off of and an attack is the only way to do that.
Could we all take S+B's plan in cycle 2 and also all agree not to block? If we have that stated it will be an obvious scum tell if someone blocks as long as everyone has agreed to it first.
I still can't tell with Fulla, I'm getting a slightly red read but I am trying to remind myself that he is as new as I am and probably isn't totally prepared.
Fulla and Zealos: contribute more so that we know something about you.
So you know I'll be gone most of the night, out drinking. I'll try to come catch up and post again soon but no promises. I'm really sorry about this but it is unavoidable.
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On June 26 2012 09:31 Oberyn wrote:
I don't really know the format for spells that target other people, and their lands/creatures and stuff though.
Artanis, could you specify the correct format for spells thoroughly?
If Mattchew had 1 Swamp and 1 Island....how do I specify which one I was going to tap?
You simply specify ##Tap Island: Tap Mattchew's Swamp, or something similar.
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I'm afraid my knowledge of Magic means I'm clutching at straws atm. I can keep up, but my contributions are probably gonna be pretty bad.
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On June 26 2012 09:35 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 07:17 Oberyn wrote:On June 26 2012 07:13 strongandbig wrote:On June 26 2012 07:11 Oberyn wrote:On June 26 2012 07:07 strongandbig wrote:On June 26 2012 06:58 GreYMisT wrote:
From what im getting, there are some fundamental problems with the "everyone attack" strat. The formost is that this is different than normal magic in that the declare attackers phase occurs at the same time for all players, and all of our permanents untap at the same time. therefore by attacking we really are not accomplishing much other than doing unpreventable damage to each other. The goal is to make people commit to their reads, so we can analyze actions and justifications in the same way as we would in a normal mafia game. The damage is a side effect. So you say that everybody uses ALL of their creatures to attack, that way they are all untapped and can't be blocked? (that way everybody will be dealt damage 100%?) What if someone refuses to attack with one of their monsters and keeps it to block himself? What if someone doesn't have a monster at all (like me) and can't attack? If someone refuses to follow the plan then we do what we normally do, decide whether we think they're being dumb, or scummy. (I'm assuming that in the hypothetical situation where we do it, most people have agreed that it's a good idea.) If you have no creatures, then you can't participate. It's null. What if I do have a creature I can summon....but I lie and say I don't have any? (that way I avoid the responsibility of having to attack someone) If you did that you would be weakend by having less creatures on the field and less amna to use since next turn when you drop the creature you would have to tap mana to summon it that couldn't be used for something else. Mafia will have to decide if the risk is worth it, just like any other game
If I don't ever put creatures out, but act townie enough, then nobody will attack me (because I'm playing "pro-town"), but since I "don't have any creatures" I won't attack and risk being exposed; therefore I'd easily skate through the game.
I guess that can only be a problem with me and Mattchew though, since everybody else already have creatures out.
Oberyn: I like pushing the lurkers my only thought on Matt is that he may still think that the game started two and a half hours ago, not 26.5. I know I thought that. I'm more worried about Zealos who has come into the thread and given us nothing to work with. Not very Townie.
Yeah, it may be likely he forgot about the game or something. Doesn't justify his action though, and it doesn't mean he can get away with it.
There's the chance he was inactive for a while and lurking scum right now, but well.
On June 26 2012 10:10 Zealos wrote:
I'm afraid my knowledge of Magic means I'm clutching at straws atm. I can keep up, but my contributions are probably gonna be pretty bad.
Can you at least post your opinion on people alone? Like forget the magic game exists and try to normally scumhunt instead and tell us who you think is scum.
...you can also just claim your hand so we can play it for you 
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On June 26 2012 09:35 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 07:17 Oberyn wrote:On June 26 2012 07:13 strongandbig wrote:On June 26 2012 07:11 Oberyn wrote:On June 26 2012 07:07 strongandbig wrote:On June 26 2012 06:58 GreYMisT wrote:
From what im getting, there are some fundamental problems with the "everyone attack" strat. The formost is that this is different than normal magic in that the declare attackers phase occurs at the same time for all players, and all of our permanents untap at the same time. therefore by attacking we really are not accomplishing much other than doing unpreventable damage to each other. The goal is to make people commit to their reads, so we can analyze actions and justifications in the same way as we would in a normal mafia game. The damage is a side effect. So you say that everybody uses ALL of their creatures to attack, that way they are all untapped and can't be blocked? (that way everybody will be dealt damage 100%?) What if someone refuses to attack with one of their monsters and keeps it to block himself? What if someone doesn't have a monster at all (like me) and can't attack? If someone refuses to follow the plan then we do what we normally do, decide whether we think they're being dumb, or scummy. (I'm assuming that in the hypothetical situation where we do it, most people have agreed that it's a good idea.) If you have no creatures, then you can't participate. It's null. What if I do have a creature I can summon....but I lie and say I don't have any? (that way I avoid the responsibility of having to attack someone) If you did that you would be weakend by having less creatures on the field and less amna to use since next turn when you drop the creature you would have to tap mana to summon it that couldn't be used for something else. Mafia will have to decide if the risk is worth it, just like any other game Oberyn: I like pushing the lurkers my only thought on Matt is that he may still think that the game started two and a half hours ago, not 26.5. I know I thought that. I'm more worried about Zealos who has come into the thread and given us nothing to work with. Not very Townie. I also don't like GreY's actions so far his repeated assumption that it is better to not attack each other. We need something concrete to get reads off of and an attack is the only way to do that. Could we all take S+B's plan in cycle 2 and also all agree not to block? If we have that stated it will be an obvious scum tell if someone blocks as long as everyone has agreed to it first. I still can't tell with Fulla, I'm getting a slightly red read but I am trying to remind myself that he is as new as I am and probably isn't totally prepared. Fulla and Zealos: contribute more so that we know something about you. So you know I'll be gone most of the night, out drinking. I'll try to come catch up and post again soon but no promises. I'm really sorry about this but it is unavoidable.
I see what you are getting at now. with this plan of attacking on day 2 though, would we allow blockers? and how many creatures would we attack with? basically for your plan to work we need people to be sure that the enemy is scum.
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Hey guys, sorry for inactivity. I am reading but I am confused as all hell trying to figure what is going on. I tried to look up Minor Nuisance but I couldn't find it. Did you tap my mountain?
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On June 26 2012 11:30 Mattchew wrote:
Hey guys, sorry for inactivity. I am reading but I am confused as all hell trying to figure what is going on. I tried to look up Minor Nuisance but I couldn't find it. Did you tap my mountain?
Yes I did.
Do you plan on doing anything so it doesn't happen again in the future? (not trying to sound harsh)
(P.S: Minor Nuisance is the John Cleese card, it's a global enchantment, anybody can use it (imagine like it's in everybody's board))
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On June 26 2012 12:06 Oberyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 11:30 Mattchew wrote:
Hey guys, sorry for inactivity. I am reading but I am confused as all hell trying to figure what is going on. I tried to look up Minor Nuisance but I couldn't find it. Did you tap my mountain? Yes I did. Do you plan on doing anything so it doesn't happen again in the future? (not trying to sound harsh) (P.S: Minor Nuisance is the John Cleese card, it's a global enchantment, anybody can use it (imagine like it's in everybody's board))
can you link?
also if i play a land it will be untapped right?
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On June 26 2012 12:12 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 12:06 Oberyn wrote:On June 26 2012 11:30 Mattchew wrote:
Hey guys, sorry for inactivity. I am reading but I am confused as all hell trying to figure what is going on. I tried to look up Minor Nuisance but I couldn't find it. Did you tap my mountain? Yes I did. Do you plan on doing anything so it doesn't happen again in the future? (not trying to sound harsh) (P.S: Minor Nuisance is the John Cleese card, it's a global enchantment, anybody can use it (imagine like it's in everybody's board)) can you link?also if i play a land it will be untapped right?
Wut?
Did you read the thread Mattchew?
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On June 26 2012 12:19 Oberyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 12:12 Mattchew wrote:On June 26 2012 12:06 Oberyn wrote:On June 26 2012 11:30 Mattchew wrote:
Hey guys, sorry for inactivity. I am reading but I am confused as all hell trying to figure what is going on. I tried to look up Minor Nuisance but I couldn't find it. Did you tap my mountain? Yes I did. Do you plan on doing anything so it doesn't happen again in the future? (not trying to sound harsh) (P.S: Minor Nuisance is the John Cleese card, it's a global enchantment, anybody can use it (imagine like it's in everybody's board)) can you link?also if i play a land it will be untapped right? Wut? Did you read the thread Mattchew?
Im catching up
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EPT
