EPTTL Mafia LVI
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Why? I looked through VE's filter and didn't like it, then saw acrofales jumping in with this to try and defend him: However, with all the pre-game "policy lynch VE" stuff going on (it was fun, but lets not take that shit seriously), I think scum could be pushing a VE lynch based on shitty evidence like this. That self-vote stunt wasn't shitty evidence. It was probably planned in egocentrical way by a scum player. I can understand if someone placed his vote on somebody else for no apparent reason, since that will immediately force someone to defend himself (or he can try and make it look like he's lurking). I don't see how a self-vote would create a good atmoshpere for town. It might all be for shits and giggles pre-game, but ingame it just might be an exaggerated attempt to act like an overconfident townie and just causes confusion. Also, Acrofales, I find you to be scummy by finding a reason to jump out of cover and defend someone, but finding no reason to make own cases and post reads. It helps me imagine the option of you trying to cover the scumbuddy who has the role of acting as an overzealous townie. And when I say overzealous, I don't speak about the value of his posts, but of the sheer amount. ____ I didn't like BKE's post until I saw him mentioning the the lynched guy he used to justify his policy lynch discussion about being careful with newbs, that's enough for me as proof that his policy talk was in town's interest and not just some attempt to start a never ending policy discussion. I still cannot be sure of him being townie on the long term, but for now it's enough. If you asked me who I would vote for right now, then it would be either VE or acrofales. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
VE, can you enlighten me on this one? On June 30 2012 23:00 VisceraEyes wrote: BM is another story and if you guys wanna get a bandwagon going on that guy, I'm all about it. I'm on BKE until further notice, though. You are very consistent in your case against BKE. On the other hand it's a way of looking townie without having to post more information regarding other players. You have been asking people THREE times for opinions regarding BKE, I gave you mine. If you can't find your three questions 'what do you think of BKE?' then I will gladly post the links to your posts. To make it short: VE, why would you support a bandwagon on BM without posting the reasons for it? | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 01 2012 00:06 EchelonTee wrote: This is epicmafia level logic. AKA, not good. I think self-voting and posting lots of short, pretty contentless posts from the beginning on might be one of the safest options for scum to look townie, then he started a case against Broodking based on this: + Show Spoiler + On June 30 2012 10:39 VisceraEyes wrote: .......I'm kinda having a hard time accepting that you don't have an agenda considering all these factors. FoS: BKE The case against BKE also started based on a weak claim. How the hell is one supposed to have an agenda when he's taling about policy? Should BKE have posted all lurkers and newbies or what did you expect him to do, VE? On July 01 2012 00:06 EchelonTee wrote: Even if you regarded VE's actions as bad, that does not make acrofales his scumbuddy. Scumbuddies often soft defend, but acrofales did an out and out defense of VE; this does not point to any significant connection between them. I took into consideration that he defended but didn't post any cases of his own. I'm not criticizing him for doing A, I'm criticizing him for doing A but not doing B like a townie would do. However, acrofales responded to my post already and justified his lack of cases with his sleep rhythm. Fine for me, I would be a jerk for not giving him that BOTD. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 01 2012 00:12 EchelonTee wrote: This is the case on mKmKmK. Kenpachi rule. Wishy washy reaction towards VT claim while trying to paint it in bad light. I don't know about this game, but in one of the games I played as scum, mafia got a mail with the VT role pm they could use to fake claim VT. That might have been NoSmurfHere actually using that information in his favor immediately. Can we know if mafia got a VT role pm? | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
I don't know about casualman, but posting that by him is incredibly cocky. He deserves to be killed whether he's town or not, we don't need townies acting like that, they facilitate work for scum by not playing to win. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
I would also advise town to wonder why acrofales made his first case against the guy suspecting the person he defended just before. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 01 2012 00:50 Acrofales wrote: My first case was on BM My second case was on BKE My third case is on you How hard is it to click on my filter and actually read it instead of posting drivel?! I was about to post something regarding this, but I'd prefer other townies to look at the cases you use to back yourself up since I'm tired. I've made a mistake by saying the case against me was the first one, that comes from posting this much. But I believe your cases on these people to be really weak, and am currently hoping that more notice that. Your case on BKE used the same arguments ShiaoPi used, which largely depend on the definition of noob. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 01 2012 02:18 VisceraEyes wrote: What I found interesting about laya's post you just quoted was the fact that he seems okay with lynching BKE, but neglects to put a vote on him as well....plus, there's ALREADY a bandwagon on BKE, so his lynch obviously has more support....so why would he rather kill Kurumi? Now, I'm okay with both a BKE lynch AND a BM lynch at this point...but I'm about to go reread the thread. On June 30 2012 23:00 VisceraEyes wrote: BM is another story and if you guys wanna get a bandwagon going on that guy, I'm all about it. I'm on BKE until further notice, though. You were already ok with that before. Would you be so kind to answer my questions directed towards you? From this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344514¤tpage=18#346 The case against BKE also started based on a weak claim. How the hell is one supposed to have an agenda when he's taling about policy? Should BKE have posted all lurkers and newbies or what did you expect him to do, VE? From this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344514¤tpage=17#336 VE, why would you support a bandwagon on BM without posting the reasons for it? | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 01 2012 04:52 Acrofales wrote: EBWOP: "But I prefer a BM lynch over BKE anyway." Rearranging that post got it a bit mangled Why exactly do you prefer a BM lynch over a BKE lynch? Also, I'm still waiting for VE's response to my questions, as any townie should, they are short and should be easy to answer if he was townie. Not sure if he's evading them or just afk. But he already skipped them once. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Katina has one post. 'agrees' with a post. Nothing of her own. No need to take responsibility for the case if it fails. Lurks heavily. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
We can't call katina bandwagony with that vote. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 01 2012 06:40 EchelonTee wrote: Hey Adam, remember my first game? When sephirothag or whoever crucified himself for no reason? This is the MrZentor variety of it. You speak in riddles for me, who is Adam?And how is that event similar to this one? Also, could you explain me fully what the kenpachi rule is? I didn't play these games where you learned what you learned. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Gonna repeat the unanswered questions to VE after day1, I'm not gonna stop until you spit it out, dude. I think ET proposed some interesting alternatives. The Kenpachi rule deserves some discussion imo, cause it can also be subject to mistakes/manipulation from scum knowing that it will be applied. If scum posts the role pms VT rolename, then there will be only one group of players that can answer in disbelief/discomfort to that: Blues. Using the kenpachi rule is a double edged-sword with a much sharper edge on the side designed to kill townies. In regards of this specific case about mKmK: I fear lynching him for the possibility that he's just a blue role trying to keep his head low. That said, I think ET should not jump on him so easily based on a policy formed through previous games. Mandalor caught my eye now. His posting style rings scum to me. Tell me more, friend. ##Vote Mandalor | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
1. The scum claim you adressed. I guess with it you meant that he says VE used good arguments against BKE, but then considers him to be scummy for one line of text than really says nothing about VE's alignment. Then he suspects kurumi for 'mafiavibes', that's all. I agree that his arguments are terrible and contain zero information. From this point of view he's actually scummy or bad townie. 2. His low activity after that post I don't know how experienced it is, but that behavior would also fit a blue role. That would also be the argument made by you I consider to not be decisive, yet you treat this as a strong argument against him. 3. His wishywashy post regarding the VT roleclaim. A blue role could react like that, too. ___________________________________________ I'm kind of changing my opinion regarding him after writing this. Mainly because of point 1 .I still think that point 2 and 3 wouldn't be enough for me to vote for him. But 1 is a good argument to vote for him. Sorry if I don't have as much faith in the kenpachi rule as you do, but I didn't see it successfully in action through multiple games, and I also see the downsides. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 01 2012 21:46 Mandalor wrote: Can someone tell me what the kenpachi rule is exactly? Must've come up after my mafia activity. On July 01 2012 00:12 EchelonTee wrote: This is the case on mKmKmK. Kenpachi rule. Wishy washy reaction towards VT claim while trying to paint it in bad light. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Since mK started by suspecting VE, I guess he might have been trying to cover BKE with it while not explicitly saying that BKE might be town. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 01 2012 23:50 VisceraEyes wrote: Now, this is the ONLY question you've asked me Viv (that I can see), and you've TWICE now accused me of ignoring questions...which is funny because I answer the question in my filter BEFORE you ask it. So I guess the question becomes: instead of accuse me of "evading your questions" or whatever, why didn't you just look in my filter for the answers you sought? On July 01 2012 00:29 Vivax wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 30 2012 10:39 VisceraEyes wrote: .......I'm kinda having a hard time accepting that you don't have an agenda considering all these factors. FoS: BKE The case against BKE also started based on a weak claim. How the hell is one supposed to have an agenda when he's taling about policy? Should BKE have posted all lurkers and newbies or what did you expect him to do, VE? My other question concerns your reasons for suspecting BKE. Regarding BillMurray: Your reason for suspecting him is that you think that he tried to start a bandwagon on you. He called you out cause of your selfvote, and so did I. You never defended yourself for your weird self-vote, others defended you instead, like acrofales with this lolpost: On June 30 2012 17:53 Acrofales wrote: I disagree. A selfvote at this point is completely null: it's the start of D1 when votes mean nothing, and who the hell knows why VE does what he does anyway? However, with all the pre-game "policy lynch VE" stuff going on (it was fun, but lets not take that shit seriously), I think scum could be pushing a VE lynch based on shitty evidence like this. ##vote BillMurray Doesn't look like acrofales has any interest whatsoever in even considering a scum VE, and his next post: On June 30 2012 19:16 Acrofales wrote: Lol. Nice OMGUS. So let me follow your thought process. 1. VE is scum because he voted for himself, which only scum would do to look townie. 2. I call the reason dumb (which I guess could conceivably be seen as a defense of VE, but was more an attack on you. I am still pretty null on VE). 3. Instead of backing up your reason for voting VE with some actual evidence, you OMGUS and conclude that VE and I must be scum together. Do I really need to point out the multiple logic fails in here? Here acrofales says that 1. he doesn't believe that selfvote to be scummy. 2. doesn't want to look like he's defending VE and emphasizes that he doesn't have an opinion regarding him. 3. Goes so far to say that the self-vote can't be used as evidence for anything and that BM's case is OMGUS. Then VE doesn't explain the self-vote and tries to discredit BM with this: On June 30 2012 19:28 VisceraEyes wrote: Acrofales, I suggest you leave BM to his insanities. I'm gonna look for scum instead of try and reason with him. Then BM answered with this: On June 30 2012 19:32 Bill Murray wrote: Acrofales, it's not OMGUS when I have reasoning You have chainsawed You have also set up a chance for a weak ass switch to the BW on BKExe scummy as fuck ##unvote ##vote acro What's going on atm?A BKE bandwagon. I didn't like acrofales and VE after this. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
But I still don't like the bigger picture when I look at acrofales' behavior in that mess. On July 02 2012 00:46 VisceraEyes wrote: We should all be voting for BillMurray to ensure town victory. I'll only be voting for BM if you state in Capslock and bold text that town should lynch you if BM flips green. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
I'd prefer if people evaluated the cases against mK and Mandalor now. Mandalor's first posts before he got called out didn't ring town to me. On the other hand some people seem to swear on the kenpachi rule. I don't mind seeing how it works out this time with a mK lynch. mK also renounced in defending himself, I take that as a confirmation for scummy behavior. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 02 2012 08:19 marvellosity wrote: Vivax, you clearly don't understand where I'm coming from them. It's a mindset thing. It's not the fact he's lurking, it's the tone of his post and how he puts it across. Yea, zero contribution while jumping on one of the bandwagons pretty clearly and apologizing for late post. I'd probably be able to call out multiple others doing the same, so I don't get why you chose this one out of them. But probably it's cause you took a quick look after the replacement, and he's the last one behaving so bandwagony. No, actually there's grush doing the same after him. Why not suspect grush when you have the same reasons? Cause he posted less information? I get the part of your argument where FT jumps on the bandwagon, but why don't you accuse grush of the same? Did you ignore his posts? | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 02 2012 05:51 grush57 wrote: Alright ##Vote: Mkmkmknmkmkmkmk And he did that after he wrote: About one hour difference between the votes. Why, marv, why did you overlook him? | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
I may ask question for things I find suspicious, or may I not? I'm not asking for a vote/lynch, I'm just asking questions, and information is always town's concern. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Whatever you do,I'll be watching. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
If FT flips town, we lynch mK? If FT flips scum, he might have tried to bus mK or mK is town? | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
That said, I don't like how people skipped over Mattchew's posts to start a bandwagon on FT. I think his posts were a lot better than the following regarding FT. There are better cases out there. Not gonna vote for one I believe to be bad. Also, I don't think a town marv would try to provoke me whenever I try to discuss something outside of smalltalk. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Posting such a huge case and then he gets zero attention for it  I'll give you some: Get your things straight, thinking I'd be mafia is ridiculous. Let's string up people for the FT mislynch.I told you the cases against him were bullshit and more of a policy lynch than anything else. That said, marv, I don't see you drawing conclusions after his death, but you criticisized mine before his death for being premature. You contribute zero to town except for causing bandwagons, and your posts are numerous, but not helpful. I'll anticipate what I'm gonna do day2. ##Vote marvellosity | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 02 2012 18:56 Acrofales wrote: Don't worry, I'll push it when people start waking up. DrWiggl3s burying it in spam is not making you look any better either. Ok, kingdede. Why don't you keep pushing your BM policy lynch like day 1? You seem to have a lot of backup from people like VE. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 02 2012 08:19 marvellosity wrote: Vivax, you clearly don't understand where I'm coming from them. It's a mindset thing. It's not the fact he's (Foxtrotter) lurking, it's the tone of his post and how he puts it across. Where do you come from then, where they teach you to make such bad subjective reads? | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 02 2012 08:37 marvellosity wrote: Vivax, again you're not getting it. On July 02 2012 08:41 marvellosity wrote: Please learn to read properly before asking questions. On July 02 2012 09:16 marvellosity wrote: Vivax, how about we don't try to draw connections before anyone's even flipped, eh? Your premises are terrible anyway. On July 02 2012 19:01 marvellosity wrote: Vivax - roflofloflofloflofloflofl is what I have to say to you. On July 02 2012 19:10 marvellosity wrote: Vivax - policy ignoring you now for being stupid. kthxbye The guy marv pushed turned out to be a mislynched lurker. Note: Designed for town and the vigi. Gonna repost if it gets buried under misleading posts. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 02 2012 19:39 ShiaoPi wrote: @Vivax: I do not agree on your read on marv, sure he led a mislynch, but being wrong is no scumtrait. Also the way it unfolded marv looked really town just go and check his filter. 'Being wrong is no scumtrait'. What kind of generalization is that. There were no good objective reasons to kill foxtrotter, and I kept asking marv about his reasons. He wasn't just wrong with his bad 'read', he also openly refused to justify his case by insulting me whenever I asked him something. And I'm writing this to town players, not to ShiaoPi. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 02 2012 19:55 ShiaoPi wrote: And tell me that is "no reason" to lynch somebody, and if you cba to read marv, I'll put it shortly: -lurking -calling out a lurker and voting him, while doing nothing else himself -simple sheeping The point is, marv said that these weren't the reasons. His final resons were FT's 'mindset' and 'intentions'. I already asked marv why he didn't target others who fulfilled the above criteria (lurking etc.), and instead got a bandwagon up on a specific one of them. I also mentioned grush as one of them. Instead of explaining why he picked FT over others, he said that these weren't his reasons for picking him and justified it with his gut feeling. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 02 2012 21:01 marvellosity wrote: Kurumi, you are misrepresenting my post in isolation a little bit there, my dear. How about you comment on the other two. They are valid lynch candidates for me. Count me in. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Enough for me to unvote marv and vote for you next day. I think you should post more. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Any anagram pros in here? | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Looks like kenpachi rule didn't work this game, eh, NoSmurf? | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
That's all I have to say before something happens.Reasons in our filters. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 01 2012 08:25 Bill Murray wrote: Acrofales FoS on BKX is fishy as fuck if BKX flips scum, will you all listen to me on acrofales? It's a JEEP tell for a FoS with a vote on someone else Acrofales did that, lets test BKX ##Unvote ##Vote: BKX Looks like a bussing attempt with the intention to kill acro after. But pressure on BKE went away. Acro likely town. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
He did that to gain support among townies for an acro lynch. That can only mean he knew about your alignment, and so do I now. Why don't you realize it and gg out, or do you prefer giving us some more info? Maybe you have some kind of extraordinary defense regarding this one? @VE BM points to the next scum with something that can be considered a major mistake, you prefer to pick me for defending BKE together with him in earlygame. I still think the arguments against BKE were bad at the time. They all depended on one's definiton of a newbie. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 03 2012 15:23 VisceraEyes wrote: What is this I don't even... Vivax, you're calling BKE scum and defending him in the same post do you realize this? Why would you go to the effort of defending him while you're literally in the middle of spearheading his lynch? I still think the arguments against BKE were bad at the time you're calling BKE scum and defending him in the same post do you realize this No, I'm calling him scum now and reminded people of the reasons why I defended him earlier. I'm not defending him now. Different past tenses ftw. Still have to hope that it was a slip revealing by BM revealing BKE, and not that he intended to put a false trail, or even to defend a townie while being scum. This seems very unlikely however. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
It's pretty obvious since BM's death that he can't be mafia. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344514¤tpage=51#1010 The answer is already in your post. More specifically in the part where I post 12 hours before deadline. how do you defend a guy and then vote for him 3 minutes later. I didn't defend mK in that part like you say. I mentioned three points that were used against mK at that moment, and said that only one point gave me a reason to vote him at that point. It was the point regarding his post content. I was sceptic of the kenpachi rule ET and NoSmurfHere were promoting at the time and gave my own reason besides that policy to vote for him. I'm kind of changing my opinion regarding him after writing this. Mainly because of point 1 .I still think that point 2 and 3 wouldn't be enough for me to vote for him. But 1 is a good argument to vote for him. Sorry if I don't have as much faith in the kenpachi rule as you do, but I didn't see it successfully in action through multiple games, and I also see the downsides. A scum me would have simply agreed with the kenpachi rule and voted for him. Nothing more easy than hiding behind a policy for the vote, not start questioning it. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 04 2012 01:28 BroodKingEXE wrote: Vivax: If he is scum I'd only lean to about 65% sure. I cant wrap my head around why a scum would go through the trouble of trying to lynch both of these guys as well. He clearly thought the Fox lynch was bad before the lynch, but didn't as much effort into preventing than continuing his VE and Acro campaign. Just the fact that he really softly opposed the Fox lynch would make me suspicious. The marv case was bad outright and his BM and BKE bussing scheme is wrong. If any can convince why a scum makes a move to kill two very experienced players I'll consider changing my vote. 1. Tell me how you differentiate between a soft and a hard defense.I'll proceed to quote myself and show you how I defended FT  .2. Just the fact that I really 'softly' opposed the mislynch of a townie makes me suspicious. Note how you use the term softly to play down the defense. Marv failed with two reads and had the habit to post 1-2-liners, also he offended me instead of answering questions, so I had good reason to think he was a disrupting scum player. BKE: If any can convince why a scum makes a move to kill two very experienced players Wat. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 04 2012 01:28 BroodKingEXE wrote: The marv case was bad outright and his BM and BKE bussing scheme is wrong. Why is the BM bussing scheme wrong? BM asked town to lynch Acrofales if you flipped scum. There's some knowledge in that. And at the time he posted that, the mK case wasn't out yet to save your ass, he had good reasons to believe you'd gonna get killed and tried to save some of his cred he'd have lost for defending you before. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 04 2012 02:02 BroodKingEXE wrote: Firstly Im town. Secondly at the time how many people thought BM was town? Bussing a scum is only effective if you are innocent already, by that time most of the town would have been up for a BM lynch if I didn't go through. The only thing that attempt would have done was get both of us lynched. BM never had more than 2 votes at the same time on him Firstly: That's no defense. Secondly: Most people didn't post anything about BM at that time. Regarding bussing: No, bussing a scum can successfully deflect attention from you if you've been suspected before. Usually it should be quite vulnerable to WIFOM, but that post by BM is a bussing attempt with a scumslip as bonus and I don't see how he would have tried to use that post to his advantage as scum if not to bus you. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 01 2012 16:13 Bill Murray wrote: i dont like how adam went from saying "lets kill kurumi" to the next post he had voting mandalor the BXE wagon is magnificent I dont like the hate towards it and when he dies we can lynch Acrofales Seriously, it's so goddamn obvious. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
I still get more townvibes from her. She calls out people with a firm opinion. Only thing one could object is that she preferred a BKE lynch over a BM lynch. Everyone but the two voting for BM preferred some lynch over BM's lynch, so the objection is invalid. I don't like the Katina bandwagon. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
You might be genuinely convinced that I'm scum, but you forget there's 6 of them. Maybe don't skip everyone else's post while promoting your own. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
I guess town never lynches people trolling or acting overly strange. If he's roleclaiming then he's basically making himself a target for no reason. Doesn't make sense that way. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Gonna be satisfied for now, but I still think that vote + commentary by BM puts you into a bad spot. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
His bandwagoning on the FT lynch is reason enough. And I don't buy the story where he kills his rl friend, who then turns out to be townie. Jerk. VE, more facts, less emotions. Clap clap for the speech. ##Vote twelve | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Gz to your 1000th post, ghost. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
@ NSH Before I voted for mK: I defended players from an upcoming bandwagon, but I had no reason to be sure that the people pushing it were scum. However, what made me suspicious was Acrofales coming in aid of VE so fast once I started criticizing the cases on BKE and BM. I also felt like VE and Acro always shared the same opinion. My concluding line regarding both of them was: On July 02 2012 00:34 Vivax wrote: What's going on atm?A BKE bandwagon. I didn't like acrofales and VE after this. After I voted for mK: I can't be a serious counterforce to the FT bandwagon if I vote for someone else who's not gonna happen anyway? I just followed the rule: 'Vote for the guy who you believe to be scum and of who you know has the best chance to get other votes'. So I left my vote ticked on mK. VE also accused me of voting mK and defending him at the same time, while I simply listed the pro and cons in voting for him. Apparently mentioning cons for your votes makes you scummy. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
I read it like this: - Katina is scum, but since it's her birthday we have to give her the BOTD. - Twelve is scum and I don't want to be associated with him. - Hyaach is a townie who is being snappy. Did I mention that we have to lynch him for that. Not sure what to gain from his behavior regarding BKE. Gonna have to look through Shiao's filter more for that. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
I think I have focused too much on Shiaos latest posts to vote for him. Here's something to Shiaos defense: On July 02 2012 19:39 ShiaoPi wrote: @Acrofales: Your case on Vivax does have merit, but sadly I would say that he is town. He defends me while I even suspected him and disagreed with him most of the time. On July 02 2012 19:39 ShiaoPi wrote: @Vivax: I do not agree on your read on marv, sure he led a mislynch, but being wrong is no scumtrait. Also the way it unfolded marv looked really town just go and check his filter. He was right with marv's alignment and defended him. I've found some more speaking for a town Shiao, but for me the above is reason enough to go back to a twelve lynch. The play is quite different from the one I know, still. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Katina ignoring so many scummy players to suspect Adam is just ridiculous. I think I've found something to Adam's defense. On July 01 2012 16:11 Bill Murray wrote: vig shoot Adam first because he asked you to shoot broke the golden rule So much for Adam. Alright. The other candidate for her and twelve is casualman. Obviously a troll and an easy target. I don't think he's mafia, but he sure could be an asset to them. I don't care if we lynch Katina or twelve for now. ET going silent stinks, too. He found a good reason to push a townie case cause of the kenpachi rule. No safer way for scum to cause a mislynch by promoting a policy lynch. Also, for an experienced player, he should be posting more as townie. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
I might have learned a rule with this game: 'town never lynches trolls and people acting like idiots, but they attract cases from scum' That said, VE, if twelve flips red I'll come back to your last attempt to get votes on casualman instead of twelve. Even if Shiao is scum, I'd keep him alive over scummy players giving us less information. As long as he keeps posting constantly, it should become obvious once he tries to push the mafia agenda. He is basically forced to post while knowing he's being scrutinized heavily. You call that WIFOM right? | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
No need to get so personal again, I have feelings .Twelve, you made a 'case' against BKE when there was a bandwagon against him and then you even suspected NSH/Bugs to be the Ringleader. Then you said NSH started the FT bandwagon while it was marv as I recall it. You only always show up when there's someone mentioning you in a threatening way. Then you even gave two different reasons for voting FT once people didn't buy the story with him being your RL friend: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344514¤tpage=42#834 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344514¤tpage=58#1145 I had just got a scummy read on foxtrotter out of the thread. But you didn't post it. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
If we kill people who look scummy and additionally didn't contribute much yet/hard to read/lurking, while trying to stay in a good light in front of town (like twelve, katina, ET, grush) as opposed to players who looked scummy and then wrote a lot as defense (like ShiaoPi, BKE) or players who act trolly or simply act (like casualman and Kurumi). then we can lynch people later who already gave more information and are forced to do so to remain consistent. If we kill highly informative scummy players before, then it's unlikely that we will gain more information from their flip regarding the scummy players who didn't post much yet. With this, scummy, lurking players will also be given the pressure to post more, while active scum has to remain active anyway. Thoughts? | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 05 2012 01:47 Katina wrote: What? Silent scummy players first, loud scummy players later. Loud players more likely to dig their own graves, so less dangerous than silent scummy players who are able to remain silent if we pursue the loud ones. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
##Vote for people On July 05 2012 01:45 Vivax wrote: (like twelve, katina, ET, grush) | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
I find this kinda weird: On July 02 2012 08:36 EchelonTee wrote: Grush also looks ballz bad I'm sticking with an mk lynch. If he flips town, fox is on deathbed. Godspeed town. On July 02 2012 08:43 EchelonTee wrote: Alright screw it all Mk hasn't voted, not playing at all. In my exp, a scum team wouldve been like omfgbbq Vote ffs Ft has done a vote and looks bad by same standards. Reminds me of cccalf from soaf, gambit from tl lv Manmode super balls switch engage Switch to ft nowwwwwww On July 02 2012 08:48 EchelonTee wrote: Switch to ft now. You wanted mk dead and not bke? Vote ft. your vote on a random goon? Vote ft. I don't like how he tries to steer bandwagons without posting own reads. He was also the one opposing drwiggl3s, and drwiggl3s has been shot by the mafia. Can't argue properly here cause this is WIFOM, hell knows what mafia used the nightkill for, but I think drwiggl3s filter deserves a look. So much for ET. Lol grush. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 04 2012 09:39 Twelve wrote: Anyways, pretty much every single thing I wrote turned out to be false. NoSmurfHere cannot be ringleader because BM was the Ringleader. Rastaban cannot be NoSmurfHere's mafia partner because Rastaban turned up green. Once i knew the facts, I felt silly for posting my theory, and offered to shut up. This is the only thing giving me doubts so far. You were suspecting two people of which 1 is probably townie, and the other flipped green after getting killed by mafia. Not the safest targets for a scumplayer. And then: You claimed rastaban to be scum, but then he gets shot by mafia? Either scumteam made a mistake here/didn't care, or twelve is town. I'm actually not that sure about my vote anymore. What do? Katina, ET or Shiao? Or do you think Twelve looks still bad in light of this post? We still have some time to change things. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
I wouldn't understand the actions from a scum point of view. There's a lot of talk about ET already. Take the way he tries to influence bandwagons without reads. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
For now back to Twelve since I don't wanna risk ET getting lynched when he could be modkilled. I really hope he doesn't flip town. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 02 2012 18:47 Mandalor wrote: I just want to clarify a few things on my position on drwiggl3s: I think the doctor is a townie. I don't agree that mattchew's list is necessarily all town. I don't think ET is scum. If mattchew is indeed scum, that will obviously raise some suspicion on him, but he's a very constructive poster. I don't agree with a lot of his views, but he just doesn't seem to be counterproductive in his actions. I think killing mattchew is a good idea, but I don't think it's going to happen. I still think BKE is scum. I don't understand what you wanted to do with mattchew at the time. You praise his constructive posts but think that killing him is a good idea? | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Ok, I'll vote ET again. If anyone believes in twelve, switch too. Need 4 votes I think. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
If ET flips scum, then we lynch BKE too. If Twelve flips scum we can assume BKE is town. If ET flips town, then he only pushed cases against townies and it's bad luck. On July 01 2012 03:45 EchelonTee wrote: Bke is a classic d1 lynch; hard to clearly read, an active poster with strange accusations and minor breaches in logic that show only slight scumminess, but a lot of people jump on anyways. his opening post was strange, but it's not nearly as conclusive as other opening scum posts have been in the past (zealos, macpo). I find his posting scummish, but not conclusive enough for a d1 lynch, and very low on info to boot. BM would be informative, mK would be accurate. Putting on my vote for mK. Hi adam. - BKE soft defense - BM considered an option cause informative (not scummy) - mK considered scum Town ET would surprise me. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
 | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 05 2012 10:51 Katina wrote: but I'm sure we at least got two Mafia in casualman, Mandalor, and BKE if not all three. Katina, don't you think Kurumi and VE act somewhat funny? | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
This is arguably not pro-town, but a lot of townies might have done the same in his spot. Katina, can you post a list of your opinions regarding all players? Needless to say I might use it against you, it really depends on what you write there. You don't need to give long explanations, just guess the players' alignment. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Gonna post more about connections with Adam before the daypost. Need Katina to post her list of people + believed alignment to decide if she's scum or not. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
And BKE is for sure of opposite alignment to katina, cause of this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344514¤tpage=22#429 And maybe of opposite alignment to grush, who called BKE out once: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344514¤tpage=26#515 NSH already suggested the version where twelve AND ET are townies, so we just have to detect scum skating by. I suggest we start by lynching BKE, the other scum players are: Mattchew, ShiaoPi, Maju/casualman/grush. If you wonder about Mattchew: He just complained about the ET lynch when he had his vote ticked on him. Looks like he doesn't care much about the town agenda he tries to fake. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 04 2012 12:09 Mattchew wrote: I completely forgot adam was in this game, I have NEVER seen him play like this before. He is ALWAYS helpful, active and extremely townie as town On July 05 2012 00:06 Mattchew wrote: I am uncomfortable with twelves defense being so passive. He seems to not want to piss anyone off even when they call him scum and vote for him. This is continuing his play before he was a suspect, which means he is either actually in over his head newbie townie that just wants to help but doesnt know help, or scum who is afraid to vote and accuse townies. I think we should be voting ET or Adam, because BOTH of them have been useless this game and this is EXTREMELY out of character for them. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
BM wanting to vig Adam doesn't have much to do with that. I was referring to Matt not acting as if he believed ET to be scum for real, like when he put that vote. Anyway, I had reason to think that twelve was town cause of the reasons here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344514¤tpage=63#1242 ET might have been modkilled, but a mislynch and a modkill would have been worse than this. Twelve managed to make himself look really scummy, the only thing preventing his lynch was the NSH-ringleader-theory being proven wrong and the rastaban nightkill (A would-be-weird-mistake by scum). Problem with this is that it assumes that scum acts consistently with previous actions from the members. They'd probably be better off not making sense at all. So I don't know if twelve is a newb or a good scum actor. But if they wanted to plant that 'false evidence', then why was I the first to mention that to Twelve's defense, and not twelve himself? It will come down to lynching either him or BKE I guess. I prefer BKE. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Not scum. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Vivax, you list these reasons why 12 is town but why wouldn't a scum want to draw suspicion to townies and to try to divide the vote to inhibit progress? Well, he didn't draw suspicion, his 'case' with a NSH-ringleader was a giant blooper and noone believed it, additionally, noone had any interest in lynching rastaban or NSH Then rasta got killed, proving Twelve's theory to be incorrect in both points. Why kill someone you lose cred for? And as already said, if that weird post was intentional, then Twelve would have used it to his defense earlier. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Anyway, why don't you give us a nice list like katina, since the only case you had so far was against BKE and you seem to be keeping your opinions about others to yourself. What I know of your stances: You think katina is town. Casualman scum. BKE scum. What about the others? | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
They will also involve connections with adam, already written, just need to paste. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
And as to myself. Well, I really hope I didn't save a scum player from getting lynched. But I might also have saved a townie. Time will show  ...and the right lynches. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Why don't you go read it. The reasons for suspecting ET shortly before he got lynched are in my filter. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 06 2012 06:54 VisceraEyes wrote: VisceraEyes Scum-O-Meter The Guys I think mafia should shoot tonight VisceraEyes ghost403 Kurumi austinmcc NoSmurfHere Acrofales Mattchew Fixed. There's a reason I'm keeping the townreads to myself still, you should have posted this list right before the daypost. You don't think it's a bad idea to post it now? . | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 01 2012 11:47 Adam4167 wrote: Vigs, shoot him tonight. Lets not waste a lynch and a full day cycle worth of discussion on someone who is trolling us. On July 01 2012 17:43 Adam4167 wrote: I touched on casualman earlier but for completeness: it looks like a blatant troll and is probably a smurf having a laugh. His alignment is a coin flip between troll town or troll scum running a gambit, hence why I said a vig should sort this one out. Referring to casualman.Adam using the 'Don't lynch the troll'-argument. Is casualman useful for mafia or is he mafia? But Adam asks vigi to shoot him, so I think casualman is a troll town. On July 01 2012 11:47 Adam4167 wrote: I think you are scum. ##Vote: Mandalor Mandalor townie. On July 03 2012 03:57 Adam4167 wrote: VE, are you done catching up yet? You're much less present in the thread then ive come to expect from you, wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts VE townie or just superficial conversation? On July 01 2012 02:02 Adam4167 wrote: Let's kill Kurumi. Kurumi townie. By the looks at least. Gotta hope that Adam didn't put false tracks. Always gotta double check these guys, even if they look townie by this standard. Two players made cases on the ones on this list I believe to be townie cause of Adam's posts: Katina and ShiaoPi. I have to assume they didn't make their reads by bothering to read through a dead scum's filter, so I have to guess they're pushing an agenda. Here's my list: Twelve - town/mafia 1 BroodKingEXE - town/mafia 1 Hyaach - town/mafia 2 ShiaoPi - town/mafia 2 casualman - town/mafia 3 Katina - town/mafia 3 Kurumi - town Mattchew - town Majugarzett - town austinmcc - town NSH - town (but probably very experienced, so hard to read.Double check) Ghost403 - town Acrofales - town VE - town Mandalor - town This all under the assumption that Adam didn't fake his agenda at the time he wrote the stuff. town/mafia x represents the pairs of people that probably have opposite alignment and I'm unsure of. Let's see who scum chose . | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Additionally, he got roleblocked. Where I know it from? Looking at the daypost. Just 1 kill. 3 were possible. 2 by mafia ,1 by vigi. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 06 2012 15:58 Acrofales wrote: Anyway, I won't be "active" scum for much longer ahahahahahah | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Anyway, lynching grush is a lurker lynch. Lynching casualman is a troll lynch. I think that lynching either BKE or Twelve will bring a lot of clarity in this mess. Clarity about Katina, Acro, VE, BM's real intentions back then, and obviously Twelve + BKE. Since information lynches are considered bad, I suggest we simply go through the filters and make a decision based on scumminess. Right now, I'm tending towards BKE lynch. I think we had a fair bit of scum on twelve before he got 'saved'. If town can't reach an agreement on these two, I want to lynch Shiao (even before BKE or twelve, but we won't get as much information I fear). Look at this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349107¤tpage=5#97 Shiao didn't have his vote ticked in at the time.He unvoted shortly before, and didn't vote again. Just cause of this I'm pretty sure he's scum. And his previous activity already looked fishy to me before Twelve caught my attention. ##Vote ShiaoPi | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
If you're looking for suspicious things regarding me and acro, you should look there. However, I don't really mind if we lynch BKE or Twelve. Either way, we should know the other one is scum. Cause of Adam's defense I'd go for BKE. At that point It wasn't decided that he would be mislynched, so the town cred argument doesn't kinda fit. He probably felt safe to defend BKE cause I defended him first. More interesting quotes by Adam: What are your thoughts on Acrofales? Hes bouncing all over the damn place and its only been a couple of hours since the game started. I doubt a scum would bring this much attention to himself this early on so I am leaning probably town, do you agree? As scum, I like to pick a target that I know wont be lynched, so I can look like i'm busy 'doing stuff' and pushing cases, without discrediting myself with them flipping town. I'm pretty sure Mandalor is townie, BKE scum. Acro might be scum too cause of that quote, but would that mean twelve is scum too for being saved? Why would scum not want two mislynches instead of one, in case of a town twelve? Twelve or BKE, that's the question. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Acro switched votes to ET instead of twelve, and I have to believe that a scum twelve means a town BKE and vice versa cause of the way twelve tunnels BKE all the time. In this version, that would mean that Adam defended a townie and Acro is scum. It could also mean that Adam defended scum and Acro is town. What's for sure is that either BKE or twelve + acro are scum. Given that BM defended BKE, I think it's safer to think that BKE is scum. Looking through BKE's filter I found something that looks like a scumslip, but I wouldn't use it as only evidence: On July 04 2012 01:28 BroodKingEXE wrote: Vivax: If he is scum I'd only lean to about 65% sure. I cant wrap my head around why a scum would go through the trouble of trying to lynch both of these guys as well. He clearly thought the Fox lynch was bad before the lynch, but didn't as much effort into preventing than continuing his VE and Acro campaign. Just the fact that he really softly opposed the Fox lynch would make me suspicious. The marv case was bad outright and his BM and BKE bussing scheme is wrong. If any can convince why a scum makes a move to kill two very experienced players I'll consider changing my vote. On July 04 2012 01:28 BroodKingEXE wrote: The marv case was bad outright and his BM and BKE bussing scheme is wrong. On July 04 2012 01:28 BroodKingEXE wrote: BKE bussing Come on guys, not does he only speak of himself in third person, he also refers to the votes on himself as 'bussing'. Let's lynch him. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Note to self: Don't post too fast. And with that, I still can't choose between twelve and him. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Before the Twelve bandwagon started: On July 04 2012 13:28 BroodKingEXE wrote: Who are you suggesting is the strong scum lynch and the current info lynch? Twelve answers immediately: On July 04 2012 15:15 Twelve wrote: I'm still thinking on this. I think casualman probably still our most likely scum lynch. I'll get back to you tomorrow morning on the info lynch. Once the twelve bandwagon has started, BKE votes for twelve with this reason: On July 05 2012 03:07 BroodKingEXE wrote: Well Twelve my question hasn't been answered directly, and you haven't disproved my casual is TL troll theory so... ##Unvote ##Vote: Twelve No own case against Twelve, the reason for voting for him is a lie, and he did that just after there were enough votes to lynch Twelve. I really hope BKE is scum, it'd mean the vote switch to ET saved a townie (unless BKE voted twelve with the intention to bus him). | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Why did you think that BKE is scum again? | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 07 2012 02:57 Twelve wrote: I have never stopped thinking BKE was scum. The question was why you thought BKE was scum, not what you think of his alignment. What do you suggest as proof for a scum BKE? Right now you look like you're bandwagoning with zero contribution. Maybe a BKE lynch isn't the best idea? | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 04 2012 07:42 ShiaoPi wrote: I probably should have added a housekeeping post that BKE is improving in my opinion on his posting and that I am still closely looking when he posts, but am moving to hyaach as the target of active pursuit. To the agreement stuff, where did I actually say I agree with BKE on that and that thing? The only thing I can see is that he seems willing to lynch hyaach now, where I was actually the first to really pressure him. This is Shiao's last post regarding BKE before he voted for him. Shiao pressured him earlier, but then went over to wiggles, then to hyaach. I find Shiao's lack of interest in pursuing his own cases..strange, and not trying to question the votes on BKE since you last said he was improving. Did he post anything scummy since then to make you switch your opinion? | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Please try to not say null. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
When things go too easy one should get suspicious, the BKE case is developing quite fast. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
But I don't like twelve and Shiao either. Since twelve constantly tunneled BKE, I have to assume they are of different alignment.Since I find them both scummy, I'm not feeling comfortable with deciding for one, but atm I'm still leaning towards BKE. Grush doesn't offer enough reads for me to decide. And for BKE, aside from the fact that he looks scummy, I value the information coming from his flip. Once the BKE-twelve-matter is cleared we can go on and lynch the hard to read ones, once we can evaluate their interactions with the flipped ones. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
I don't thing it's a good argument BKE suspected twelve of being scum and so he had a reason to say that a townie would have stopped the switch. Doesn't necessarily mean he knew the alignment, rather reflects what he believed it to be. BKE's last posts kind of let him look townish, he also suspects me and austin before he got nightkilled (same reason why I got doubts about a scum twelve, actually). Can't really decide between twelve or BKE, but doesn't matter, both lynches can clear a lot of things up. I hope at least , scum can always have put false tracks, they might even be tunneling each other, so I see that the information aspect is pretty unsafe. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
I kind of believe hyaach.And if he lied we will know soon enough. Katina defended twelve, so let's see where this goes: ##Vote Twelve | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
##Vote Katina | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
I think 3 people didn't post since that claim, so let's see if we're in for a surprise. IF we have a DT. The only reason I see for a scum hyaach to claim now is to cover BKE. But a smart mafia wouldn't cover a scumbuddy by fakeclaiming and saying he returned town, cause if the DT is proven to be fake, the scumbuddy dies anyway. Katina posting so actively after this just confirms she didn't have much reason to post before. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Katina, I'm not removing that vote. How about you give us one big last post we can work with? If you really are town I mean. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Lynch twelve next? | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
 On the other hand, that asks for a closer look at Acro and Kurumi for following me in that. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
I discarded the options for a mafia Kurumi and Acro. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
.Already put my vote on twelve. My defense against his accusations (and the arguments against him): If twelve was really town, he would know I'm not scum cause I caused a voteswitch from him to ET, which would have saved him as townie, which is something scum simply wouldn't do. Scum would have simply leaned back watching a mislynch and a modkill happen. But only one guy died, therefore Twelve is scum for accusing the people saving him from that. If anyone thinks it's simply bad play and not scummy behavior, step up. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
I would also lynch VE based off the general feeling I have of him now. Didn't overly analyze his posts yet. grush lynch is a coinflip, still a worthy lynch cause the first meaningful thing he wrote in this game had the purpose of defending kat. About casualman: Well, mafia might have adopted the strategy of having one guy acting super badly, while the remaining mafia keeps targetting him until he gets lynched (cause one might consider it probable that such a guy gets lynched early). That way, they'd have a pretty solid defense and possibly gain lots of cred. "But why lynch trolls when you can lynch scum?", town thought, and so casualman will probably get into the lategame. Let's say I have reasons for not suspecting Kurumi. And Acro looks pretty townie by being one of the first to vote kat. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
I doubt we're dealing with a crazy version where hyaach bussed katina to save BKE and get you killed. Or a version where BKE is a second godfather and katina just defended you to gain cred. To be fair however, if hyaach didn't say he was town, I'd still lynch BKE just based off his play. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
If you flip green we will know that katina defended you for some reason, and that the people who voteswitched to ET with me aren't scum (including me). Cause with you and ET lynched, we would have lost 2 townies instead of just ET, and scum wouldn't want such a thing. So your flip will give us enough information, don't worry. But I still think it won't be green. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 11 2012 07:53 VisceraEyes wrote: The fact that you voted for me only serves to make me look better. Way to fail. In no way I would choose a vote from this guy as a reason to not suspect someone.That said, if you both were scum, you hiding behind that vote in case casualman flips first won't convince me of your town status. In fact, if he flips scum, it's gonna show that scumteam might have instrumentalized his misbehavior, maybe betting on him getting lynched early. I would like to lynch him better sooner than later to know more. Comments on his scumminess are unnecessary I think. But more after twelve's flip :> | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
GG Twelve. RIP in that trunk. Anyway, Kurumi, me and Acro are town. If anyone thinks otherwise, I would really love to hear it. The remaining targets are maju, casualman, grush, VE. I'd go for casualman first and I'm not considering the presence of a second godfather with this. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Really? Don't you remember the moment you and Kurumi saved twelve from getting lynched when you switched your vote to ET along with me? Please tell me which scum player would prefer one mislynch only over a mislynch and a modkill of two townies. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Cause you apparently are too lazy to go back and reread what happened when people switched to ET instead of Twelve. Hint: It wasn't just cause people believed ET to be more scummy. Double hint: Every mislynch helps mafia except for very specific cases. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Looked a bit through the filters: - casualman asked for a VE lynch all the time. Katina kept asking for a vote on casu, katina also defended twelve. So I'd expect casu to be a possible scum member too, since katina's actions were one-way-WIFOMS imo. Defending town, attacking scum. - maju posted a case against katina when she was already set to be lynched. Maju is the type of guy who doesn't troll, keeps activity to a minimum, and doesn't post game changing information at timings where it would matter. He's more readable than grush and casualman cause he doesn't write derp things, but his play fits a scum role with what I could gain. - grushs readable posts: On July 02 2012 01:57 grush57 wrote: I have to agree. Atleast BM isn't going full retard like casualman. Casualman doesn't want to play and is just being plain stupid. Plus, he is by far playing the most scummiest so far. Also, he voted for 5 townies and then katina before re-voting twelve. It was impossible to save katina from that claim, so there's been scum voting for her 100%. On July 08 2012 01:54 grush57 wrote: No one claimed getting roleblocked, Katina has been getting pressured a lot, so there IS a good chance he got framed. grush defended katina + bm so far. Right now I'd go for grush, then maju. Btw, WHO HAS BEEN ROLEBLOCKED before katina died? We indeed had noone claiming a RB yet. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
All his somewhat readable sentences are there cause he's defending BM and katina. Other readable things are townie votes, he jumped on both the mKmK and the twelve bandwagon. And I repeat: whenever he actually cared to articulate something properly, he defended scum with it. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On July 11 2012 19:52 Vivax wrote: - grushs readable posts: Also, he voted for 5 townies and then katina before re-voting twelve. It was impossible to save katina from that claim, so there's been scum voting for her 100%. grush defended katina + bm so far. On July 11 2012 22:41 ghost_403 wrote: @acro: Rereading what he posted, it seems that he honestly wants to figure out what's going on in this game (at least early on in the game). Cite your sources | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
His conscious silence in this game wasn't a good thing to do. Look how he shows up all of a sudden that he's in danger. I would really love to hear some defense. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
In fact, he only quoted her in the post designed to put the vote on her. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344514¤tpage=78#1545 Aside from the katina busvote, he only targetted townies. This is the kind of scummy lurker we should be lynching imo. Grush doesn't look good either, but I'd save the trolls for the last choices since killing them is coinflippy. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Grush's scum defense is scummy. Maju's overall behavior is scummy. I'd lynch em both, but the readable scummy player first. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 12 2012 16:54 Acrofales wrote: We should not be considering Grush and Maju together as if it's a packet lynch. We should decide which of the two is scummier and lynch the crap out of him. I kinda interpreted this as if you wanted to suggest that they have different alignments, since you ask to pick the 'scummier' one. They're both equally scummy, butI prefer lynching the lurky scum type before the trolling one. There's probably room for more discussion about this decision, but most of the active townies seem to prefer lynching the trolling guys, which I think is a mistake. Aside from this misinterpretation, I don't feel their alignments are that much linkable. Grush kinda made fun of majus answer after he was called out, so that's the only thing I saw so far, and it would suggest that grush is town and doesn't know majus alignment OR that he knows it and maju is just a town behaving suspiciously OR that they're both scum just interacting a little. The problem about grush: How the hell would you read him to decide between these options? Don't even know if he means what he writes. Maju instead has a pretty bad filter, so I don't understand why you would want to defend him now, he unlurked just before when he got into the center of attention, and now he's still being silent since that. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 13 2012 01:45 VisceraEyes wrote: Between Grush and casualman, I think. Katina attacked casualman pretty hard when she was hard defending herself, so that seems to indicate town casual Lol VE. Katina also defended Twelve, but you didn't bother to defend him based on the connection to katina. Yet you use that connection to defend casual now? You're not playing consistently. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Here the quotes: On July 09 2012 10:28 VisceraEyes wrote: People should be scrutinizing me now anyway. -.- I'm onboard with a 12 lynch, but I'm going over everything to see if I agree that he's the BEST lynch for today. We have time. Kurumi, I'd like your opinion on the fact that Bugs and Matt were killed and not Hyaach, the DT who nailed one of the scums. Hyaach, you should have another report. Let's hear it. On July 11 2012 04:39 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Vote: Twelve I literally thought I was the first to do it. :/ Sorry guys. The vote for twelve following his "case"...2 days later <_<. I guess he realized it too late. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
I couldn't find the detail missing in Mandalors post. Would you point it out please? | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Well it's probably sloppiness. I don't suspect mandalor atm and we can't speak of a scumslip cause both alignments can make such mistakes. So much for mand. VE switching to maju all of a sudden is a bit weird cause I don't understand his thought process at the moment. @ VE What more information than you does maju have? I don't get what you meant there. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Now let's hope this guy flips scum ,aye? In that case we'll have to ask about maju's special place in kurumi's heart. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
I just wanted to say that your post would be a pretty good bussing post, in the case you were mafia. I don't know if you are mafia, that's why I used the 'if'. I just find it weird that you react so pissed off at that. It wasn't even a case. Btw, what do you mean with (lf)? | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Hell, I'd even throw a dice to decide between these, but it's hardly possible so I'll go with the most readable one cause I feel it's safer lynching based on reads than on coinflips. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Maybe policy lynches aren't so bad after all, since we're left with such unreadable players in endgame by not getting any. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
Anyway, your quote deserves a place in my signature for a while. Good one, good one. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 06 2012 02:03 MajuGarzett wrote: Why do people suddenly want to kill me? How does thinking that my response to one question is insufficient supersede the last 2 days of discussion on 12, Katina, etc. It's funny cause when he wrote that he never wrote anything about katina until that point. He later posted a case on her after maju's claim. If I recall correctly he was the third to vote for her, after me and NSH. Then, when Katina died, Twelve was damned to be lynched, here's MG's contribution to the mislynch: + Show Spoiler + On July 10 2012 12:46 MajuGarzett wrote: Why did you say this and then never switch your vote? Also, if you believed Hyaach why didn't you just immediately vote for Katina. I've suspected 12 for a long time so ##Vote: Twleve On July 13 2012 13:49 MajuGarzett wrote: I was against the vote of ET, a townie, and for the vote of Katina, the scum RB. I am still for lynching grush. After that I would lynch casual as by this point I suspect his trolling was just a way of keeping a null read and therefore not garnering votes. After that I'm not sure though I am suspicious of VE for his hesitance to vote for Katina. I felt that his qualms about the truth of Hyaach's roleclaim were fairly unfounded. No, you were never against the vote of ET, you just suspected him less than twelve at the point where a lynch and a modkill would have cost 2 townie lives instead of 1. On July 05 2012 06:53 MajuGarzett wrote: ET concurring with the general sentiment of the thread is possible. 12 just goes off and draws his own odd conclusions and says weird stuff that he doesn't seem to really believe. Just for clarification, I don't like ET's go with the flow play either, I just dislike 12's odd choices more. That's why you didn't fight for twelve votes at that point although you said he was more scummy: It's cause you didn't really care who died there, but with twelve dying immediately, it would have been better for scum. He got mislynched the next day thanks to a false connection. My vote sticks on MG. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
gg scum. I actually thought Kurumi was mad hatter cause of the nonsense written somewhat early. I think BKE also had that impression. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
The only remaining options in lategame were maju and grush. Maju didn't even bother defending himself, everyone on the scumteam was pointing to grush, making him actually look less suspicious. This was quite nice play by scum, so I wouldn't take credit away from the scumteam, although they had casualman casting a lot of doubt at that stage of the game. | ||
|
Vivax
21972 Posts
The point is that when there's someone easy to push, it's usually indicative that he is scum if the votes on him don't gain quick momentum, cause scumteam doesn't mind placing votes quickly on townies, after making an appropriate post ofc. That's at least a theory of mine, wanted to point it out for Keirathi in 'It's not themed', since he had only 3 votes on him, but I forgot about it cause I was so busy with other issues before I got lynched :/. | ||
| ||
