EPTTL Mafia LVI
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
| ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
how quaint. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Let's kill this guy: ##vote mKmKmK | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
well that sucks | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Do note that mKmKmK has taken his time in responding to the votes he's received. If he were town at the very least he'd call my vote stupid. However he's chosen to lurk the suspicion away which is far more of a scumtell than towntell. In addition notice how he hasn't built up many votes whereas some random noob is racking up votes like a stripper with DDs racks up $2 bills on fight night. There's some major derailing going on and whoever is responsible is scum. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 01 2012 09:09 MajuGarzett wrote: You're insinuating that mK is scummy because people aren't voting for him? That's rather ridiculous. Your first 4 posts don't do anything at all other than give a completely unsubstantiated vote. Your latest post says BM should be shot because he's an idiot, not because he's scum. You then spew ridiculous comments on mK based on him lurking while there are others who have lurked more. You then talk about derailing in a very vague manner without bothering to direct it anyone. Your vote is weird and has poor support and your comment about BM is completely at odds with town goals if you don't believe he's scum. I'm insinuating that he's scum because he didn't respond to the votes and he went afk. You think a townie would do that? Did you miss that part of my post? Initially my vote wasn't based on much but he failed the reaction test pretty hard. Secondly it is pretty common knowledge that townies jump on other townies day 1. I don't think it's a good idea to carry the BKE bandwagon to fruition as it'll most likely be more of the same as from the past. Why continue a losing trend? Scum who are found d1 are usually found through vague means and then the townies who catch them are killed and the reads are lost forever. Then the remaining sheep continue their witch hunt and lynch more townies. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On the other hand mafia lurk to shake suspicion ALL the time. mK seemingly has done exactly this, and if he's mafia certainly it's working. So, in this case, obviously I'm far more inclined to believe that the guy who is actively trying to stop a bad lynch is town whereas the scummy lurker is not. If mK is town he has a huge incentive to address the votes on him and make a case on his scumreads rather than disappear immediately after voting. Also speculating about his status is pretty stupid when I voted for him fairly quickly after he posted. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
| ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 01 2012 11:47 Adam4167 wrote: I do remember that game, one of my favourites. The difference between sephirotharg and casualman is that sephiroth was trying and making errors, casualman is not even trying at all, just acting obnoxiously. Vigs, shoot him tonight. Lets not waste a lynch and a full day cycle worth of discussion on someone who is trolling us. This post stinks. You seem to be ignoring the obvious third choice for town on day 1: we lynch someone acting scummy. You're recommending we lynch BKE on the basis that you don't like people casting early judgments. This is encouraging a passive game, are you afraid of a little bit of heat? You seem to want to punish BKE for playing badly rather than lynch him for being scum, a scum's bread-and-butter move. In addition, your vote just looks like a blatant bandwagon on the guy currently leading the vote count, you only justified it afterwards when MajuGarzett questioned you about it 5 hours later. I think you are scum. ##Vote: Mandalor this is a good case and these are all things I picked up on myself when I read mandalor's posts. I am completely fine with Mandalor and mKmKmK being lynched today. Anyone else will take some serious convincing. For now I'm going to keep my vote on mK, but in the interest of consolidation and actually lynching someone I have a scumread on, if that lynch doesn't fly I'll push Mandalor with you. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 01 2012 13:57 MajuGarzett wrote: People claim VT all the time, to me it didn't signify much. My decision was based on other stuff. I think people should remove votes from casualman. He's probably going to get shot anyways so people should be voting for others. Especially Broodking. When under so much pressure he chose a rather easy vote on someone who's just being weird. I want to see a better vote from him. You say people should be voting for others, particularly Brood, when your own vote is on me. There's a whole bunch of problems with this. First of all, you're telling people to vote Brood and not me, which means you either don't have confidence in my read and your vote shouldn't be on me in the first place or you're scum who doesn't want to vote for brood. Secondly you say that he chose an easy vote on someone who's just being weird. Isn't that EXACTLY what a vote on Brood is? A vote on someone who is being "weird"? Do you read your own posts? | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
| ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
it must've worked at least 6 or 7 times in a row from what I remember. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 01 2012 22:44 austinmcc wrote: I'm not comfortable with a Broodking lynch right at this point, although it looks like that wagon has passed somewhat. For one thing, from what I remember, he's been mislynched a few times (out of a small sample size).
I'll admit that I don't find "BKE often looks scummy as town" to be strong reasoning, but for D1 it's enough that I don't want lynch him. I also thought BKE had played in another game or two, but didn't see more in his profile. However, I'd love for him to clarify his first post, given all this discussion. Broodking, you say that you don't consider those with 4 or 5 games newbies. The rest of the players seem to disagree, and I know that I do (no more newbie games allowed =/= not a newbie in my mind). IF you accept a much more broad definition of noob, like the thread seems to want, would you alter your first post? Should people with something like 4-8 games be treated like the noobs in your post, or treated like more seasoned players? I'm alright with adding my vote to mK right now. The whole "role name" thing is actually what I thought Mattchew was referring to earlier when he said a previous poster looked super townie to him, and that was my dumb "don't think you should be trusting that" post. It's in VT pms, it's in the OP, if scum received the VT pm then they had it too, etc. Worried that mK's reaction is a blue who didn't read vs. scum who didn't read (those are the obvious options, so don't get on my junk about possibly revealing blues), but if so, he can defend himself if he ever returns to the thread. The absence in the face of votes doesn't look good to me from that standpoint. NoSmurf, initially I read you as one of the more sensible and townie folks in the thread. However, this caught my eye somewhat: Care to explain your train of thought? Over the course of 2 hours, you went from "probably town" to "completely fine with Mandalor lynch/scumread on Mandalor." Would like for you to articulate why you changed your read there. You misread. I was calling maju probable town because of his terrible vote and case on me (though I could be wrong there, who knows.) The second post is my only comment on mandator I've made. Two different players, no change in opinion. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
His votes have gone BKE-BM-Fox and there's minimal reasoning for all of those votes. In addition at each point he's ignored most of the other cases and he's influenced the flow of votes without pushing the lynches himself. He also misconstrues the case on mK. It's not entirely the Kenpachi rule, though that's pretty good in itself. The scummiest thing about mK is that he said he was excited to play and then upon the game starting he disappeared. No excitement or enthusiasm at all. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
If mK comes back to vote he's 100% scum. I'm banking on him getting modkilled to even consider this a decent idea. Probably a stupid idea, but w/e. I don't like the BKE lynch and the only reasonable alternative now is foxtrotter. I say that (particularly if fox flips town) we need to get a vig to shoot mK. ##unvote ##vote Foxtrotter | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
why was mKmKmK not modkilled? He failed to vote. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
A lot of players look pretty terrible actually | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
| ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Twelve rastaban Ghost Katina BM VE Assuming mK is town. If he flips scum then lynch them all anyway | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
The most likely to flip town on the above list IMO are like VE and rastaban/ghost but they look so bad it's hard to tell. I'd say replace them with Adam/mandalor if town. Too many lurkers in this game, honestly. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 03 2012 04:09 Mattchew wrote: I don't like Katina and VE on this list can you explain why they are there.. and what about Drwig? Don't like it? W/e, not my problem (at least for now) Dr looks too stupid to be scum but I could be wrong there. I don't think he'd say specifically to get you lynched if he was scum. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 03 2012 04:15 Mattchew wrote: I think Katina and VE are town, why do you think they are scum? No real point in wasting my time during the night. I don't even know if I'll live to tomorrow. I like s0lstice though. He seems intelligent. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 03 2012 04:44 Vivax wrote: NoSmurf, that post of yours sucked. You also jumped on the bandwagon against foxtrot pretty late. Enough for me to unvote marv and vote for you next day. I think you should post more. Speak for yourself, most of your posts are unintelligible trash | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Better that they're dead now though, wastes less time later. I think my list from before is still a good bet. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 03 2012 06:43 Twelve wrote: [/b][/blue]I'm hesitant to post this,but I have a feeling I may be killed tonight, and a REALLY strong feeling NoSmurfHere WILL NOT be Mafia killed tonight. I made a list of people who jumped on the mKmKmK lynch as I felt it was just an attempt of mafia to get a townie lurker lynched. As I went through the list of names using their filters, I came to some tentative conclusions. My current read is that if there is a Ringleader in this game (godfather), it is NoSmurfHere. + Show Spoiler + NoSmurfHere New Zealand. July 01 2012 10:25 Also your belief in "proof" probably suggests you shouldn't be playing mafia, given that most accurate reads are not based on anything anywhere close to proof. I feel he may be breadcrumbing for a detective role check. It was just a note next to his name when I Look at the interaction between NoSmurfHere and rastaban. After NoSmurfHere starts the bandwagon against mKmKmK(a lurker lynch I really didn't agree with), he seems very interested in a role claim from NoSmurfHere, perhaps trying to get a detective to waste a night and make a really dangerous "confirmed towny". + Show Spoiler + On July 01 2012 00:53 rastaban wrote: Yeah let's not anger the host. The other option is he is a blue acting strangely to it, but I am sure Mafia already thought of this if he isn't on their team so he is outed regardless of alignment. I think this is the easy and probably accurate lynch for today, so we should be thinking about pushing for a role claim from him. I may be reaching, but again, I think I may wake up dead and wanted to get my thoughts out there. rough translation of this post: I'm scum and I know NoSmurfHere is town, therefore the only way I can make him look bad is by calling him the godfather. Nice one. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 03 2012 06:49 Twelve wrote: How do i know NoSmurfHere is town? I'm just posting my thoughts, what have you done for town so far? if you actually thought I was mafia you'd call me mafia. Instead you call me the godfather (probably because you know my vanilla town claim is legit) rastaban was scummy enough in his post that suggested I could be blue. You're scummier in that you're calling me godfather just to call me scum. The reason people do that is if they themselves are scum and need an excuse to call an established player mafia. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 03 2012 06:52 marvellosity wrote: NoSmurfHere - here's a clue. You're not established. even if I'm not established he'd just call me scum. To call me godfather is stretching unnecessarily. It could only mean he already knows my alignment. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
cool. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
I'm WBG | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
| ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
anyway I was gonna post the reason I have that read on Katina (it's a meta read) and then I realized if I posted a meta read on katina it'd be kinda pointless unless you all knew who I was. I posted under my actual account once to see if anybody would notice but no one did. Then I accidentally posted with this acct in the movie thread (lol) and someone not in this game noticed. but anyway Katina's been jumping on wagons and not really been explaining her reads very thoroughly this game. This is very similar to what I saw in MTG (as opposed to her RB play in Emergency) so I'm inclined to believe she's scum. As for VE the read isn't strong because I always find it hard to read VE but I'm getting the same vibe I got from him in LI. He's not directly pushing any of his reads and he's for the most part flowing with town sentiment. I kinda saw that in Emergency too but that's all kinda nebulous. Then in terms of the lurkers there's a bunch of them who look terrible. I'm not greatly confident in any of them either (simply because there's so damn many) but honestly our best bet is to just start killing the scummiest of them first. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
| ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
I happen to agree with VE's reads other than me, of course, so it's possible he's not scum after all. (or he could be bussing hard, who knows) Tomorrow we should most definitely look into killing katina or BM. Vigis should consider shooting BM as a priority, it'll save us a lot of time. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 03 2012 10:19 VisceraEyes wrote: WHO GAVE MARV AUTHORIZATION TO FIRE N1 ANYWAY?!? HUH?! BUGS IT WAS YOU WASN'T IT?! I told the vigis to shoot BM. DERP | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Die biatch! Reasons were outlined earlier and they haven't yet changed. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Kill: Twelve rastaban Ghost Katina BM VE So we need at least 2 more names...hmmm | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
I'm going to continue to ignore you if you keep up this current trend. Probably call a vig shot on you unless you begin actively contributing and making sense. Same to you BKE: you need to read the thread (this goes to anyone who missed the vig claims, for example: ET) | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 02 2012 07:30 Katina wrote: I don't like the mkmk lynch. I think that it happened all too easily. I don't think he's scummy enough to feel comfortable to lynch D1. There are other good candidates we should be focusing on like BKE or casualman. The general rule with BM is if he is causing chaos in the thread than he's town. So far he swearing and yelling at people and calling people out on their crap. There's more reason to think BM is town than Mafia. It reminds me of when people kept killing VE because he's VE. I would sooner lynch BKE or casualman than BM. On July 02 2012 01:57 grush57 wrote: I have to agree. Atleast BM isn't going full retard like casualman. Casualman doesn't want to play and is just being plain stupid. Plus, he is by far playing the most scummiest so far. Scummy posts that defend BM Plenty of players said "I just don't want to read or consider BM" which is completely understandable from a town perspective. Softly calling him town is pretty strange, though. It makes sense from a mafia perspective, since they know he'd return town to checks. Sucks for them that a vig had the sense to shoot him in the face. One thing I am very interested in now: Acrofales, now that BM is dead who would you like to kill today? Who qualifies as scum? | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Katina looks really bad in particular though, and grush/Vivax don't look good either. Ignoring connections ET has so far been rather quiet today, and plenty of players (such as Maju and Adam) need to actually do something useful. Otherwise they should die at some point too. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
I need to reread again because I feel uncomfortable with my reads. I think Katina is scum but she's not going to be around today (and wouldn't be even if she were town) and I'm not sold on Vivax. I'm pretty sure there's at least one scum among the more active players. Perhaps ET. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
@VE there is nothing particularly scummy in the post of Vivax you quoted. Just calling something scummy doesn't make it so, and I'm pretty annoyed that you haven't yet learned your lesson. If you can learn to actually provide reasons for your reads then I might listen to you, but until then you're not really worthy of any serious attention. If you continue to do so I'll call for your lynch. The fact of the matter is that Vivax's activity patterns and his effort indicate that he's either a townie who is seeking to kill mafia but doesn't really know the proper things to look for (which is why he attacked marv, for example) or he's a really good scum who is pushing blame onto culpable townies. For now I lean toward the former because some of his posts (such as the one that missed the reason for your selfvote/unvote) simply indicate he is a townie who isn't reading thoroughly. Upon rereading, my stance on Katina hasn't changed. I am very sure she is scum. I am also still fairly sure Twelve is scum, and that Shiaopi is scum. I'll post cases later today but these three players are my strongest reads. I have to look at the posts a couple more times to see if I'm just paranoid or if there is a scum, but I really do think that one of the more active players (i.e. someone between ET, Acro, and VE) might be scum. I just can't figure out why I have that nagging feeling or who it is. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
| ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Anyway I'm done trying to reason with you for now. The first post you quote is worthless because Vivax admitted he made a mistake regarding your selfvote. The second post hinges on Vivax apparently not pushing for your or Acro's lynch. Sure, the defense of BM makes him look bad but it's characterized by him having a strong opinion and clear stance. Most scum in that type of situation won't hardline so that they can spin the story in their favor later. That's how grush and Katina looked when they referenced BM (and the fact of the matter is that there were very few players who mentioned him) | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
So that means I have on my suspect list: Twelve Katina Shiaopi Mandalor | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
I don't agree with you. If Vivax answers this question satisfactorily, I still won't agree with you. If he doesn't, then I might be inclined to rethink my stance. (but that's pretty unlikely) Vivax: why did you not vote VE or Acro yesterday? + Show Spoiler + the fact of the matter is that Vivax already has a statement in his filter that says why he didn't vote Acro/VE. It's hilarious to me that VE is going nuts over Vivax missing VE's selfvote explanation when VE has missed Vivax's lack of vote explanation. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
You have this massive propensity to OMGUS as both alignments, which is why I think your read on Vivax is total horse shit. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
I looked over s0lstice's posts again and his main read was Katina. In addition at times he mentioned grush and he caught onto many town tells for many players (such as drwiggles with the Mattchew thing) that I strongly agreed with. I think his filter is a good read for most townies left alive because he had very clear and reasoned thoughts and he was almost definitely shot by mafia because he was making sense. (that and he was unlikely to pull a prot) The rastaban death is a bit confusing because his filter is mostly void. Perhaps a blue snipe or a vig shot, though the latter would mean we have at least 3 vigis and one unclaimed with a double stack on marv or s0lstice. I don't think a town vig would hold back from claiming the shot so it's most likely that rastaban was a mafia shot IMO. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Literally Shiaopi says he doesn't know what to make of Twelve's disappearance but Hyaach's disappearance makes him scum. Dafak? Let's kill katina or Shiaopi today. Acro what do you think? | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
It's getting kind of annoying to have to decipher the intentions of these players, it's like most larger games where half the playerbase lurks while throwing weak accusations at the rest of the lurkers. Pretty freaking stupid, honestly. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 04 2012 07:32 ShiaoPi wrote: Hyaach is simply being actively anti-town by not doing anything if not called to do it. That is what makes me think of him as scum in difference to the other two candidates I gave my opinion on. How is that different from katina and twelve? They haven't done shit all despite being asked too. Also, what happened to your BKE read? You went from constantly calling him scum to actually agreeing with him. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 04 2012 07:42 ShiaoPi wrote: I am giving Katina some slack because it's her birthday and looking at her filter there is more effort involved at least from my opinion. Twelve is just unreadable to me. I would see him as newbie town based on his posts but intentions behind it look like scum, so I said it feels like a coinflip to me. Hyaach in comparison reacts aggressively to being called out and even says: "I have no reason to participate, screw you". Shiaopi says he "would" read him as newbie town based on his posts (which ones? What parts of his posts?) but that his intentions seem scummy. Wait what? If the intentions seem scummy then...wouldn't you call him scum? Now note how he says Hyaach reacts. He says Hyaach reacts aggressively. That's a TOWN TELL. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342960¤tpage=18#350 Look at that post and then compare it to the post he made above on this very page. The difference in tone and willingness to commit to a stance is striking. In XVI Shiaopi is not afraid of forming an opinion on EVERY player in the game. At no point, not even once, does he cut slack or say he doesn't feel sure (but then still continue to justify things one way or another) Here, Shiaopi completely refuses to take a stance and then makes a piss poor "contribution" in his calling out of Hyaach for what should be a towntell. In addition he dropped his push on BKE from yesterday without as much as a word of explanation (not to mention the explanation I just extracted from him is pathetic) Kill this guy today. ##unvote Katina ##vote ShiaoPi | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Like, look at his first post: it's just a total rehash of everything that happened and it reminds me of those posts Zealos makes when he rolls scum. It's that "summarize everything" newbie scum crap that they do when they have no idea how to blend in. Shiaopi have you ever played scum before? Can you link me to that game if you have? Have you played town besides XVI? Link me there as well? Acro and Mattchew, what is it about Shiaopi you find townie? | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
What separates scum from town is proactiveness in pushing correct lynches and stopping mislynches. Marv was obviously good enough for scum to shoot him, so any scum would have interest in defending marv so that they look better in light of him flipping town. In other words, people calling others town is not alignment indicative and it's a strong reason why I'm wary of people posting their town reads without cause. I think it's only necessary when you're dealing with someone who is likely to be lynched or who has a strong case against them. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
For example, Vivax just used that quote that isn't alignment indicative to suggest to himself that ShiaoPi is scum. It just undermines the read unnecessarily when it shouldn't really change the read in the first place. It's a tool that can be used by mafia to undermine legitimate cases and it's a phenomenon that is misinterpreted often by townies (like meta) How is this bad logic, exactly? Anyway as I read further into ShiaoPi's past games I'm more convinced he's scum. Confirmation bias, perhaps, but I really don't find much of a resemblance between his posts here and in any of his past games that I've read. In XIV he had a defense of himself against a fairly weak accusation that went on for paragraphs. Here his defense is mostly just "I'm finding it hard to adjust to the game size" which is just newb card. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
BTW VE if you have such a problem with my read then don't sheep me. You haven't even shown that you are really town yet. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Why are you trying so hard to create a conflict? You're assuming things unnecessarily and that's why you misinterpret things. I just meant I am wary or cautious or trying to be careful when considering town reads. I'm not necessarily suspicious of people who do it, it's just a cause to be misled. Taking something that is not alignment indicative and using it as evidence to show someone's alignment is something both sides do. They just do it differently. My post had nothing to do with that and you're seemingly just trying to find fault in my posts because you're pissed off for whatever reason. If you don't like my posts, go ahead and ignore me. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
You make a point of Shiaopi saying he found BM town for his aggressiveness. What do you make of him calling BM town for his aggressiveness but calling Hyaach scum for the same reason? | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 04 2012 09:41 VisceraEyes wrote: It's not that I don't like your posts, but when everything you're saying is in direct conflict with what I'm thinking, yeah I'm gonna have a problem with that. I had a townread on Katina, she was your top suspect. My top suspect was obvTown to you, like, how the fuck do you WANT me to react to this shit? And to make matters worse, you dismiss everything I say! "Oh, you're just wrong. That post is worthless. That point is trash. You're a fucking idiot" man everything I'm saying is not in direct conflict with you. We (apparently) had the same scumread on BM. I called the vig shot on him. If you find Twelve, ShiaoPi, and Katina to all be town then you haven't done a great job in expressing yourself on that front (other than Katina). I consider Vivax town for the exact same reason you consider him to be tunneling you; you think he didn't read. You clearly didn't read his posts very well and he even answered why he didn't vote you or Acrofales. Not to mention he clarified it again. Could I be wrong? Sure, but you haven't really pushed your read after I showed resistance to it. You just got mad and gave up. How the hell is that supposed to convince me that you are right and I am wrong? It just serves to piss people off and get confused at how dramatic you are. If you think Twelve and ShiaoPi are town why don't you tell us all why? I asked Mattchew a question just now about ShiaoPi and he didn't answer yet. You mind telling me what you think about that question? It'd be really nice if you stopped being a drama queen and answered questions/pushed your reads without getting offended every single time I disagree with you. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
I thought it was particularly funny that as soon as I revealed who I was you immediately called me scum. It's like this vicious pattern every game where you simply call me scum just because. You might have been right once but you're just going to shit up the thread if you call me scum every time we're in a game together. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Anyway as for ET I agree. Besides Katina he's the scummiest vet in the game and something just feels wrongabout his play. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Why focus on Mandalor and consider Hyaach but not consider, say, Twelve, or ShiaoPi, or Adam/maju? (does anyone else remember that those last two are actually in this game?) | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Sure, he posts like a five year old, but even bad players can roll town. Twelve and Katina seem particularly interested in killing him, as people were interested in killing the lurking townies yesterday. My strongest reads are still Shiaopi, Katina, and Twelve, but none of these lynches interest anyone (probably because no one gives a fuck, as usual in the larger games) | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
make a case. Do something. The concern is legitimate and you've been so far utterly useless. You don't have the excuse of "it's day 1 anymore" (although that excuse was always bullshit anyway) we need thoughts IMMEDIATELY because the deadline is coming pretty quickly and no one wants to do anything. We've basically wasted 24+ hours. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 04 2012 21:33 Acrofales wrote: ShiaoPi: uncomfortable lynching him for reasons stated above. I don't see these reasons stated above | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Most people agree that we should kill Twelve. There's like a couple dissenters but honestly that's a fairly good sign he's scum (particularly in that he just refuses to gain votes) Similar story for Katina-if either died today (and flipped scum obviously) I'd be happy. Acro, stay with me. ##unvote ##vote Twelve I can't reconcile why grush is acting the way he's acting to a town read so the best way to approach that is to consider him scum. I can't fit his play to his normal play. He was enthusiastic at the beginning and dropped off immediately (pretty uncharacteristic of him as town). In addition he had that weird BM interaction. Everyone seems to disagree with me on ShiaoPi, so I'm going to assume for now that I'm wrong. I'd rather not tunnel him to oblivion when there's no way he's getting lynched today. If he doesn't meet my standards then I'm going to continue to push him on later days. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
I trust his judgment as I've been afk. Reading now | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
I knew Adam was scum too LOL. Let's kill grush, Twelve, ShiaoPi. Doing some more rereading | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
We should definitely kill grush at least though. We need to address these people who are skating by without getting attention. Allowing them to live while townies die because we seek active scum is a plan for losing. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
she looks better, but no. I've been swayed by the number of people who say they disagree with her lynch, but agreement isn't something I'm concerned with, particularly as the only thing this town can agree upon is killing townies | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
However the content of her contributions is pretty useless. She wanted to lynch casualman and her thoughts on most of my reads were this: On July 04 2012 12:08 Katina wrote: Easy, I don't think Twelve, ShiaoPi, Adam/maju are scummy at the moment or at least not enough for me to push for them. Adam/maju haven't really posted much so I don't have enough of a read on them. I haven't paid enough attention to grush to get a good enough read. All those people I would like to see more from before making a confident decision on their alignment. If your going to make me pick one I would kill maju at this moment in time. I was merely posting my thoughts since I said I would and I have been busy for a lot of this time and haven't been posting as much as I would like. I didn't clarify my reads on Maju/Adam but basically I lumped them together because they were two lurkers who I thought had opposite alignments. as for the first two I thought both were scum at the time. Ultimately she backed down from both ET and twelve. Understandable NOW in retrospect based on the vote switch, but honestly she didn't do any work in pushing her lynch nor did she do any work in stopping twelve'ET from being lynched. She only commented on them when she was forced to comment by other players. Pretty sure she's scum for this because as town she fights to get her lynch of choice. I recall in Emergency she tunneled Blazinghand for hours because she basically knew him to be scum. She did similar things in Liar Game with Palmar and in countless other games where I've seen her be ignored by townies yet be completely 100% correct. Here her reads are being ignored because they're bad, and she's not pushing them either. We all know she's really good as town but she's not displaying this. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Since when have we known town Katina to have ignored 6 or 7 scummy players in the game? At the very least she will have acknowledged them or read them as scummy. She might be focused on one person but she isn't totally focused on that one person. I remember in MTG she was sort of like this. She tunneled some townie endlessly for no reason even when everyone else considered that guy just to be playing somewhat badly. Her play is a bit different here (she asked me postgame how to improve and maybe that's why) but not particularly different. If she steps up her game tomorrow then I'll gladly back off but her reads are too convenient for me to believe she is town. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
If you don't explain why you have reads on the main candidates then you can't expect to actually contribute, right? Upon rereading your filter I've noticed that some of the things I've said are wrong. I don't think Mandalor is scum given that he was one of the only players Adam seriously attacked. It could have been an early distancing attempt but I find that a bit unlikely given that Adam gave some fairly strong reasoning for it. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now. Why do you think ShiaoPi is town? | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 05 2012 11:52 casualman wrote: vig if you would be so kind as to shoot twelve we can make a much better lynch in day 3 why do you play this game? | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
e.g. ghost needs to be protected. Mafia only has 2 KP; if we can force them to double stack or kill people some of us have suspicions on then that's great. Acro, myself, ghost, Mattchew, VE would all make decent prots. If you don't have a town read on one of these players then obviously don't protect them. If unsure just protect ghost. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
My townread on Acro was based on him pushing BM so mercilessly. I actually considered for a time that he might be an active scum attempting to establish himself but I don't remember at which point I dropped him as a suspect; I suppose it was because there were too many people who were scummier than him. Let's see what happens in the next cycle. I'm still very interested in killing grush. ShiaoPi is still suspicious as well. I'll be back later if I'm still alive, gotta go to discussion for my class now. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
##vote Twelve | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Examine his BM interaction on d1 and you'll see that BM and Acro distance each other pretty heavily. BM's reasoning on voting Acro is incredibly strange and their interaction seems very forced. In addition I was wondering why Acro hardlined against BM so hard, without ever expressing even the tiniest doubt. He could have nailed him as scum 100%, but that type of thing is so unlikely on d1 that I find it rather suspicious in retrospect. like this post: On July 01 2012 16:11 Bill Murray wrote: vig shoot Adam first because he asked you to shoot broke the golden rule it's clear BM wasn't afraid of distancing himself from his buddies. So, it's more than plausible that some of the players that BM interacted with are indeed scum. Recall this: On July 01 2012 08:25 Bill Murray wrote: Acrofales FoS on BKX is fishy as fuck if BKX flips scum, will you all listen to me on acrofales? It's a JEEP tell for a FoS with a vote on someone else Acrofales did that, lets test BKX ##Unvote ##Vote: BKX finally, derp. Let's kill grush instead of Twelve, since my gut is telling me he's scum too, but I think he's actually more likely than Twelve to flip scum. ##unvote ##vote grush57 | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 07 2012 05:18 ShiaoPi wrote: okay, after being out for some time I finally got to reread BKE's Filter. He is actively going under the radar (with success, I guess as I overlooked him day 2) and has not a mentionable amount of contribution. Also his votes were all on targets which were the current sentiment of the thread. Add that to his day 1 stuff and I say we got a solid lynch candidate. ##vote: BroodkingEXE Anyone notice the problem here? | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
| ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
| ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
In this game he's done literally nothing. I liked Kurumi's post, it actually made me question my read on BKE. However the problem I have is that in past games scum are identified as people who need to die but they never die, thus winning the game later. I see that problem with grush. It's potentially true with casualman too but he apparently trolls just as hard normally. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 07 2012 07:26 VisceraEyes wrote: So you're saying you don't want to vote for BKE on the basis that "Oh sure he's probably scum, but this guy needs to die FIRST" ....is that what's going on here? My gut says BKE is town, but my gut has been wrong before. I'm not very confident in my reads ATM given the fact that I haven't had much time to read over the game and also how much resistance my pushes have faced. Maybe I'm being too weak-willed and this is an issue of confidence. Grush does need to die though. Do you agree? | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Anyone who is still on Twelve or BKE after this is delusional. All votes must either be on Hyaach or Katina, and honestly I believe Hyaach to have a true read given how scummy I found Katina. Let's lynch her today since that didn't fly yesterday. If Katina flips scum or miller we basically know Hyaach is telling the truth. If she flips town we can reexamine things then, though I seriously doubt Hyaach as scum would have the balls to claim in such a situation where a claim is not needed by scum. If he were scum and knew one of BKE/twelve to be town he'd just push the lynch on the townie between them. ##unvote ##vote Katina | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
90+% sure this claim is legit and it helps that katina is one of my strongest scumreads. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
It's moronic to lynch Hyaach right now because upon his claim everything about his play makes sense in retrospect. He had Katina as a scumread d1; plausible check. He had BKE as town but because of the d1 wagon probably decided to check him. Plausible check. Upon entering d2 he immediately attacks Katina. If he was scum literally the only way he could make this claim is if both twelve and BKE were scum, AND he planned it in advance. That's so incredibly unlikely given that even very experienced scum players can't fake a claim like that. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 07 2012 10:05 Kurumi wrote: Then we have different definitions of "commit to". He could've basically run around and scream Katina's name and that'd count? Yes, because that's what DTs on this forum have been doing for months! Most of them don't make real cases because they're overly afraid of getting shot. Hyaach isn't the type of player who even particularly pushes his cases hard normally. What do you think happens when he rolls blue? You lynch a claim if it seems out of place or is pushing a scum agenda. There is none of that here. As town it makes 100% sense and if Katina was framed that just means we got unlucky. We don't lynch the DT because he disregarded a frame possibility, that's what DTs do all the time (that is, blindly trust their checks) In this case, hhowever, it is NOT blind trust. I was one of the few players with a strong scumread on Katina. A DT comes in and confirms this read in a situation where the read was completely off the table for lynch. In other words, very very unlikely this is scum agenda. Scum wouldn't draw this much attention to themselves just to get a particular player lynched (especially as it would turn into 1 for 1, a huge loss for mafia) | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
"He must be lying" is all you've got? That's pretty pathetic. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Hahahaha this is priceless. You'd think that if I were sitting on a throne and waving town around I'd have gotten my choice of lynch (you or ShiaoPi) yesterday. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 07 2012 10:34 Twelve wrote: any other DT that can confirm these claims from Hyaach? What the fuck? I'm sure you're scum now too | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Your story is kinda weird. If you were framed it doesn't necessarily mean Hyaach is lying. So if you claim to be framed why is your instant conclusion that Hyaach is a liar? I don't see the town motivation behind immediately claiming Hyaach is a liar without looking at the facts first. I had to actually go back to the OP and see if there were millers (there aren't) and to see how framers worked. (which Wiggles just clarified) So instead of looking over the facts, your instant conclusion is that Hyaach is lying. You say he has to be lying, without even considering for a moment the motivation behind the claim. What motivation would a scum Hyaach have to single YOU out, of all players? The only plausible explanation for that is you believe all three of BKE, Twelve, and Hyaach to be scum...which honestly, I find to be absurd, and you haven't pushed this notion anyway. Are you of that opinion? Thinking about it rationally, the only reason a scum would fakeclaim DT in this position is to save both BKE and Twelve, but then they would draw so much attention to themselves when their target flipped town that it would be simpler to paint one of BKE/Twelve as town and bus the hell out of the other. In fact it would be far more effective, even. Then the second part of your little tirade kicks in. If you got framed, why is it necessitated that Hyaach is lying? If you're of the opinion that you got framed then you should believe Hyaach's claim. Instead it seems like you've just started panicking and now all you can do is sling mud at the situation to try and make it go away. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
DO NOT FORGET THIS QUOTE AND THE ONE THAT COMES AFTER IT. On July 07 2012 10:32 Twelve wrote: Alright I've read through Hyaach and Katina's filters and I don't see why you are trusting Hyaach over Katina. I had a strong town read on Katina, but after rereading, I realised it was because she defends me from lynches, but its always from one townie to another, so maybe she was exploiting knowing my alliance and trying to trick me into being an ally? Any thoughts? I'm feeling a but lost, but am willing to change my vote. Good god Hyaach if you are lieing about BKE....... It is here that Twelve essentially starts claiming scum. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 07 2012 10:57 Katina wrote: I do care.. The town is just about always half divided. BKE is green on your supposed "check" So trolls can't be Mafia? I find it interesting that you would let a troll live over someone who is posting their reads and trying to help the town find Mafia. You don't know what to make of yourself? Interesting. I would imagine you would have some idea by now. You never answered why you completely ignore grush the troll but not casualman the troll. What separates the trolls? | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
I think I figured out why everyone hates meta. Whenever it's used correctly, no one really notices. For example, I brought up Adam off-hand because I suspected him based on meta. The same thing happened in LI and he happened to be scum there too. I thought Zealos and Katina were scum in MTG off meta too. However, when someone incorrectly uses meta it's like the world has exploded. Everyone starts saying "oh I hate meta bla bla bla no one ever uses it correctly bla bla bla" which might very well be true, but I think it's this selective bias, just as people are biased against those who get one lynch wrong (even if their reads otherwise are very good) | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 07 2012 11:08 Katina wrote: I don't know if I was framed or if Hyaach is lying. I have been looking over the facts this whole game. His motivation would be to go for someone in the spot light. With you on my back this whole game you gave him a nice target. As I have said numerous times I think BKE is Mafia and I'm not sure what to make of Hyaach anymore. Twelve I have a town read on. First reaction I had when I saw that red check was he had to be lying because I'm town. Then I read to see what roles could be in the game and noticed the Mafia could have a framer but since I think BKE is Mafia and apparently had a green check then it makes it hard for me to figure out which option it could be. If I had a town read on BKE this game then I would be more inclined to believe Hyaach's claim and conclude that I was framed. Again as I said Mafia don't play by one particular style that would make the games too easy. It depends on the Mafia team as well some could have jubjubs who do odd things while others have experienced players who do odd things. I'm not slinging mud and trying to make it go away. I'm trying to defend myself from being mislynched this game. I'm not the target you should be trying to get lynched. So with one vote on you and me backed off (because there was literally no chance I would get you lynched today) you consider yourself "in the spotlight?" In addition, if his motivation is to go after a townie in the spotlight (as scum) what happens when you flip town? He dies, right? What kind of shitty motivation for scum is that? He trades you, who have so far been pretty irrelevant in the matters for town, for himself. That's essentially like town losing four players all at once (when comparing team sizes) Why do you have a town read on Twelve? What makes him town? What makes BKE scum? If you're actually looking at the facts, why is it that you still haven't figured out which stance you want to take? | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 07 2012 11:11 Katina wrote: What seperates them is that grush has posts where he actually says something. While casualman goes in active for almost the whole game and pops in to insult people or say "let's lynch this guy!!" I admit I have overlooked grush and a few other people this game. There have been others I can get an actual read on and casualman is just too bad and getting ignored too much to be true. Really? Which posts? So casualman is scum because he's bad? Since when has this been a criterion for lynching scum? | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 07 2012 11:25 Katina wrote: People have put me up for a lynch candidate for most of the game. Just recently did everyone begin to back off and this red check comes up. Then when I flip town Hyaach can claim I was framed and use that as his scapegoat while protecting BKE. The lynch on Twelve got switched last minute I wouldn't put it past the town to do it again. Twelve has been here and contributing, he has defended himself to the last minute and still continues to post after escaping a lynch. Where if he were scum I would imagine he would go off into lala land like BKE does. BKE disappears and comes back when people start getting suspicious of him and put him up for lynch or he makes small comments on other people's post to make it look like hes contributing when in reality he isn't. He makes bad defenses and basically sheeps along with what all the other people are doing and pushing me on the side. I haven't figured out which stance to take because I think BKE is Mafia and I have been suspicious of Hyaach. If it turns out that Hyaach is telling the truth and I was framed then I will get down on my hands and knees and wash your feet in the most holiest of water. So...basically exactly what you've been doing all game? e: Good for you Maju, caught my point without me explicitly having to yell it aloud. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
If we don't lynch Katina we lynch Twelve. The only reason we wouldn't lynch Katina is if we think she might've been framed. However, this DT claim is almost certainly legitimate and I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't screw ourselves out of a correct (IMO) lynch by wondering whether she was framed or not. Assuming the claim is legitimate then both BKE and Hyaach are definitely town (2 godfathers in the game would be pretty unprecedented, bastard almost) and as of now I see no reason to doubt the claim. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
However the only time I can recall ever seriously considering you scum was MTG and you actually were scum there. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
I'm a little mad and frustrated now (and it's 1 in the morning) so I'll be around for questions and whatnot and reading the thread but I won't write anything major till later tomorrow. As I have a midterm on Monday I won't be as active as I have been. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
there can be more than one DT -_- | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
| ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 07 2012 21:41 Kurumi wrote: WBG, I have my doubts. The biggest doubt I have is that Hyaach's play does not equal DT. I actually was suspicious of this guy, look at his filter, his attacks look the same as grush's or casual's. Chanting "X is scum". The timing isn't quite right in my opinion too, why wait 24 hours to claim your "red" check? Please explain, why would I want to trust this guy? While my vote is on Katina I treat it as a gamble. Nothing wrong with the timing at all. He had a green check and that guy was going to get lynched unless he claimed. The only reason this would be beneficial as scum is if they are buddies. However, if they are buddies then lynching a townie puts huge pressure on them, making it unlikely to be a scum claim. I really don't understand what's so difficult to grasp about that. Perhaps I'm colossally wrong about this whole thing but I just don't see how a scum Hyaach benefits from this claim. I also don't understand why you think it's a scum favored claim. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Think about this: Katina labels casual as nothing but a disruptive troll, therefore he should die. However, grush is not much different and BM was not much different before either (she even uses BM as an example of a troll who flips mafia) However, she defended BM and she never attacked grush until I pointed out the hole in her logic. Why this contradiction? (I would warrant that grush's only contribution all game just came in the form of reminding everyone there have been no rb claims) Then, why is it that she is applying so fervently a relative null-tell (being a troll) as a surefire sign someone is scum? This reminds me of MTG where she kept trying to say nova was scum because he spammed, and he spammed before as scum too. This of course was completely disingenuous because he spammed as town and when I pointed this out she still pursued him as a target. She flipped scum that game. Finally, from a statistics point of view there are actually less misleading mechanics in this game than others. There could be two framers, but even with two framers it wouldn't be as bad as GM's games, for example. If she really was framed then obviously that's unfortunate but we'd have to reexamine everything in light of that. However, I have my doubts given her incredibly strange initial reaction. Is Acro still afk? | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
No one argues so heavily that a green check must be godfather. It's a ludicrous idea and the only time this happens is if the behavior of the target is completely contradictory to the check. Normally you take the check at face value and only question it if the claim is questionable or the checked player is not helping town (and if they live too long, for example). I see no reason to doubt the validity of the check when I personally have had a scumread on Katina for most of the game. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 08 2012 06:41 VisceraEyes wrote: I didn't like the check on BKE though NSH. ##Unvote ##Vote: Katina He says he had a town read on BKE. You don't check town reads. Checking a failed bandwagon is a pretty good check. If BKE died d1 and flipped town instead of foxtrotter/mKmKmK then the latter two would have made good checks as well. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
If you flip town obviously I'll go back and reread and see what went wrong, but this check is too much to pass up on. We can't just ignore it given that we're now so late into the day and given the information we have. Don't change the facts. You didn't push BM because you "thought" he was town and you said so. Now you're claiming you didn't push BM because you didn't feel strongly about him? What? For the record, if Hyaach hadn't claimed I would have supported a lynch of Twelve. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
| ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
| ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
we kill ShiaoPi, Twelve, and grush. All of them had extremely weird reactions to the Katina lynch and almost all of them refrained from voting for a very long time. Grush and ShiaoPi voted very very late and basically fucked themselves with their reactions. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
ShiaoPi is almost definitely scum as well based on that megalate vote, and Twelve is either the dumbest townie in all of existence or scum. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
If your vote stayed on BKE the 95% confirmed townie (upon Kat flipping) then you would've been called out anyway. So yes, I am saying that no matter what you would've done I would've thought you were scum. Sucks to be you. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
final vote count is this: Katina - 12 Hyaach Vivax NoSmurfHere ghost_403 Mattchew Kurumi MajuGarzett Mandalor grush57 VisceraEyes casualman ShiaoPi BroodKingEXE - 3 Acrofales Katina Twelve VisceraEyes - 0 Twelve - 0 grush57 - 0 ShiaoPi - 0 Looking back at the Katina votes, there are some very very crucial things to consider: first of all, this was no normal scum lynch. This was a lynch of arguably the most powerful mafia member, the one they intended to live the longest. Katina was a roleblocker, not a goon, and she was very well established, to the point where many people I have town reads on considered Katina to be town. Upon this flip I have to reevaluate my reads of these players (particularly VE, as it is getting down to the wire) but I'm pretty confident that I have mostly been on the right track where they are concerned. The bolded 3 in green above are essentially confirmed town. I realize I've included myself in that but I know my own alignment, obviously. Medics need to be on these 3 players to force scum to shoot into the others. If you want to take a risk, go for it, but at 2 KP mafia will need to double stack one of us without a roleblocker. They're put in a situation now where they either kill Hyaach (who is pretty much confirmed DT) or they kill me/ghost, or try to sprinkle their KP over one of us and someone else they deem unlikely to be protected such as Mattchew or VE or Acrofales (assuming they are town) Now, other things to take from this list: 1. Twelve never switched his vote off BKE and never actually took a concrete stance on the issue. He simply chose to disappear during the mess in which I was hardcore tunneling and pressuring Katina. While I was forcing slips out of Katina I noted two posts and vowed that town should not forget them. I bring them up once more now: On July 07 2012 10:32 Twelve wrote: Alright I've read through Hyaach and Katina's filters and I don't see why you are trusting Hyaach over Katina. I had a strong town read on Katina, but after rereading, I realised it was because she defends me from lynches, but its always from one townie to another, so maybe she was exploiting knowing my alliance and trying to trick me into being an ally? Any thoughts? I'm feeling a but lost, but am willing to change my vote. Good god Hyaach if you are lieing about BKE....... On July 07 2012 10:34 Twelve wrote: any other DT that can confirm these claims from Hyaach? Note that after this, Twelve never came back. He never switched his vote and he never took a stance. He never switched his vote off BKE, and he asked if there was another DT that could verify Hyaach's claims (INCREDIBLY scummy). Why on earth would a townie try to out two blues at once? Definitely not the response I would've expected any town player to make, and definitely something that can be reasonably explained from a scum perspective. Twelve is almost certainly scum and any vigis still alive should shoot the crap out of him. 2. Acrofales disappeared. Someone mentioned the running of the bulls, which is fine, I suppose, but ultimately he's been completely gone for this cycle. We need to ensure that he isn't mafia. If he isn't active tomorrow and if he doesn't contribute then we should consider killing him later. Just something to remember; we can't forget about him. In a game as large as this if players slip by unnoticed they become dangers in lylo when only the baddies and inactives are left alive. 3. Grush votes Katina without explanation despite seemingly being of the opinion that it was likely Katina got framed. Check out the last few posts of his filter. Earlier in the game, grush was on Twelve/BKE but today when the lynch came out strong with those two as the leading candidates he didn't vote for either of them. In the end his sole vote went on Katina and it was as useless as the rest of the stuff he's done. Indeed he defended her (and she him). It makes sense in retrospect given the fact that Katina flipped roleblocker. Grush is scum. 4. ShiaoPi's mentions of Katina: On July 01 2012 05:56 ShiaoPi wrote: Casualman get in this thread please, no more shananigans in the vote thread... @solstice: Katina has a single post and would probably fall under the lynch lurker policylynch right now. I think it would be better to go after BKE or mkmkmk soft-defense On July 03 2012 19:24 ShiaoPi wrote: Just caught up on the thread, happened a lot I guess. Barring delayed counterclaims ghost should be confirmed town by now. While I would agree on a Katina-lynch, my topread would be Hyaach: "I like Katina as a lynch, but I prefer scummy lurker #5" (this was upon me seeding the thread with my Katina read on d2 IIRC) On July 04 2012 07:23 ShiaoPi wrote: Katina: I skimmed through the filters of the two games posted in this thread and honestly I could not make out that much of a difference, rereading her filter here does yield some scummy things which stand out such as the reasonless bandwagoning, on the other hand she seems really busy and I would say that we can lynch other people for this day and leave her for later if she continues to not contribute. Twelve: I am unsure what to make of him, he joins the BKE bandwagon and the foxtrotter one without much explanation, the whole story with his rl buddy seems weird and out of place as he could have simply delievered his reasons for the switch instead of (potententially) making up a strange story, which we are supposed to believe. His whole derpage during night looks like a newbie townie, but why would he accuse someone of godfather then? His disapperance since then is just baffling, no idea what to make of it. A lynch on twelve would probably be as effective as the foxtrotter one was, he is a scummy lurker, but his lynch feels like flipping a coin. The Target I still want to lynch is hyaach: He apparently is following the thread but only gets active when it is needed (voting or being called out). So he is pretty much lurking with an aim. His refusal to contribute and participate in discussion in unsettling to me, since he just vanished yet again. "can't make a read on her" On July 04 2012 07:42 ShiaoPi wrote: I am giving Katina some slack because it's her birthday and looking at her filter there is more effort involved at least from my opinion. Twelve is just unreadable to me. I would see him as newbie town based on his posts but intentions behind it look like scum, so I said it feels like a coinflip to me. Hyaach in comparison reacts aggressively to being called out and even says: "I have no reason to participate, screw you" I probably should have added a housekeeping post that BKE is improving in my opinion on his posting and that I am still closely looking when he posts, but am moving to hyaach as the target of active pursuit. To the agreement stuff, where did I actually say I agree with BKE on that and that thing? The only thing I can see is that he seems willing to lynch hyaach now, where I was actually the first to really pressure him. "she has an excuse to be inactive" On July 05 2012 02:21 ShiaoPi wrote: Some thoughts after I caught up, @hyaach: BKE also asked you, and you did respond with that quote of "you have to ask to get a case". Guess you don't like him either. Reading through your recent posts I want to thank you for (finally) contributing thoughts which make sense and generally stepping up your activity. You are off my suspectlist for now. ##unvote @Katina: I do not like wasting a lynch on a troll. Better to shoot him or blow him up. Good to see you unlurking and contributing. I'll probably reread mandalor now. @Twelve: Same reasoning about casualman as with Katina, Is he your strongest scumread right now? Regarding ET, I did not play any games with him so I don't know about his meta, but it is unsettling that he vanished after being one of the more active persons beforehand. Can somebody link me some games of him? "good to see you unlurking" On July 07 2012 07:17 ShiaoPi wrote: BKE has not shown any activity lately, his day 2 play was better than his day 1 play so I focused on hyaach, but it did not mean that he became a townread for me. You can see my thoughts on twelve in an earlier post, he is still a nullish read who I wish had flipped instead for ET. just so we can stop discussing him. I want grush to die or start doing something, like pretty much the majority of the thread I guess. Katina is nullish tending town, her recent posts are much better and she is offering up reads and opinions. hyaach is tending town now. He is pushing his read and generally more helpfull than before (which wasn't too hard to be honest), he could still be more transparent though. "nullish tending town" On July 08 2012 07:46 ShiaoPi wrote: I would love to lynch hyaach first to see his flip as a basis, but seeing that as impossible due to time constraints we can at least can something with Katina's flip "would rather lynch hyaach over katina" On July 08 2012 08:22 ShiaoPi wrote: Well that puts me in an awkward spot, good that we nailed scum, not so good if you kill me next, since I am town. I suggest lynching grush and twelve, preferably twelve first, since his defense of Katina made me more wary of him. @NSH: You really think I would have done that kind of reaction if I knew Katina would flip scum, because she is my scumbuddy? Seriously, I might be not playing really well this game, but I am not that stupid... All I can say to that is that I made a mistake in my reads. If you do not believe me lynch me and get disappointed by a mislynch And here, almost the only mentions of grush and twelve in his entire filter, for things he himself is profoundly culpable. Smells like interscum distancing to me. Kill List Twelve grush57 ShiaoPi Watch List Acrofales VE Kurumi Mattchew The last three players on this watchlist were pretty fervent in their opposition (in the case of VE + Kurumi at least) or were afk (acrofales) and need to be watched carefully. I'd include Mattchew as well but I have an odd town read on him and I need to figure out why even though I haven't paid much attention to him | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
| ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
if you are a hatter and you are alive tomorrow with bombs on two of the kill list, consider claiming so that we can kill more than one of them at once by lynching you. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Human Cannonball (Mad Hatter): You are a Human Cannonball! While you're normally the one being shot out of the cannons, you also know a thing or two about using them! Each night you may prime a cannon, up to a maximum of two, and aim it at someone else's tent or wagon! If something should ever happen to you, your assistant will light them, blowing anyone in the way to smithereens! Changing your target counts as a Night Action and you cannot prime a cannon and change the other's target on the same night, or change both targets at once. If a mad hatter is lynched do his targets die? | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Thanks for the clarification wiggles  | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Phenomenal scumplay, mate. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
You're funny, scum. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
reaction on dying: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AaiPg.gif) | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
| ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
| ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Please go back and try to fix your mistakes for future games. This game was an immense frustration to play seriously given how bad the overall town play was. Most players did nothing and most of those who did anything at all didn't have very good reads (myself included in that). There were some players who defended only scum and attacked only townies. I've hated playing in games of this size for a while now but I keep giving them chances. I think perhaps it is time I TRULY took a break from them to focus on smaller games (yeah yeah been saying that for a while :p) | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 15 2012 02:02 grush57 wrote: GG. Thanks for hosting, awesome flavor. I had to play my town meta so I wouldn't get lynched while not helping the town, hence lurking. You weren't playing your town meta and anyone who defended you on that basis wasn't reading the thread. No offense to the scumteam, but this was (like most normals recently) firmly a town loss, not really a scum win. When no one in the game has correct reads and the only people attacking scum are scum themselves, you can do whatever you want as scum and win. I've done that myself as scum. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 15 2012 08:20 Vivax wrote: Once Acro and Kurumi made that gambit defending a townie from a mislynch (which was quite a gamble), they had a bulletproof defense for lategame. At least for me, since I would never see scum renouncing on a mislynch. The only remaining options in lategame were maju and grush. Maju didn't even bother defending himself, everyone on the scumteam was pointing to grush, making him actually look less suspicious. This was quite nice play by scum, so I wouldn't take credit away from the scumteam, although they had casualman casting a lot of doubt at that stage of the game. Those weren't the "only" options. In one of my last posts I even included Kurumi and Acro on the list of players who needed to be scrutinized. I would've done it myself if I lived but obviously I didn't. You should really consider rereading the new player guides if you think that the number of people accusing someone has something to do with their alignment. It can mean that player is being bussed OR that they are town, therefore it is a relatively weak tell either way. Too many players focus on the happenings instead of reading for motivations. That's hard to do but if no one puts in the effort for it, no scum are found. We had a great scum candidate on d2: two, in fact. Katina, and grush. However when I attacked katina, townies who weren't reading the thread opposed the lynch. One townie cannot force his opinion upon dozens of unwilling without some sort of push that is greater than his voice. In order to fix that the most constructive way, everyone needs to participate and pull their own weight. Imagine if we had 3-4 townies who caught at least 1 scum. Game would've been much closer then. Also, the scum modkill kind of proves my point that scum weren't doing anything. I can guarantee Adam would've lived quite a long time just by lurking. | ||
|
NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 16 2012 00:56 VisceraEyes wrote: I was reading the thread and defended Katina. But you know, whatever.  I'd say you weren't reading very well when all of your scumreads were townies and your townreads contained like 2-3 scum in them. | ||
| ||
