EPTI was hesitant to vote Katina because I had a town read on Katina. I don't care if you find that suspicious.
Does anyone find Maju's defense compelling?
TL Mafia LVI - Page 92
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
I was hesitant to vote Katina because I had a town read on Katina. I don't care if you find that suspicious. Does anyone find Maju's defense compelling? | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
On July 13 2012 13:49 MajuGarzett wrote: I wouldn't say that the bold quote is a defense of BM. It was more of a comment on NSH's logic. At that time I suspected NSH so commenting on his play made perfect sense. I guess I really can't say anything about the flip on NSH. My logic has been given and the logic made sense to me. You say that scum could have faked the role pm but what would be the point of giving scum fake role pm's when the VT positions are listed in the OP? The only way that would make sense was if scum were given a certain position such as juggler (which I am by the way) which would be given to no one else in the game. Also, if I was scum, why wouldn't I have initially tried to kill someone who other people suspected as well instead of suspecting NSH then changing my views? I don't see how my actions in general have been that scummy. I first voted for NSH, which as I have said was someone who scum would be unlikely to target for a lynch. I was against the vote of ET, a townie, and for the vote of Katina, the scum RB. I am still for lynching grush. After that I would lynch casual as by this point I suspect his trolling was just a way of keeping a null read and therefore not garnering votes. After that I'm not sure though I am suspicious of VE for his hesitance to vote for Katina. I felt that his qualms about the truth of Hyaach's roleclaim were fairly unfounded. What are you talking about fake role pms? Kinda hippcritical about claiming juggler too. Your vote for NSH could have been a ploy to make you look townie, by going after an uncosidered canidate. Defense isnt cutting it for me. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17958 Posts
On July 13 2012 07:54 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm waiting to hear what Acro thinks of the case besides "Hmmmm let me ponder" The fact that he thinks I'm playing and analyzing is moot if he disagrees with my case and just saying that and disappearing is not contributory. You posted your case just as I was going to bed. Here's the follow-up. There was something bugging you about your case when I read it and it was mainly that my OWN opinion of NSH also changed during N1 (from trolly null to leaning town). The main thing that allowed me to get something of a read on him, was him breaking cover just to be able to make a meta-case on Katina. It seemed unlikely behaviour from a scum WBG to break cover just for that. Add BM flipping scum and NSH agitating to kill him and he went from null to "leaning town" in a few hours. However, I went back into Maju's filter and looked over the timestamps of when he wanted to lynch NSH: the post stating he wanted to lynch NSH was late N1 AFTER Bugs had jumped out of the closet. The second post defending NSH was fairly early in D2. The only thing of significance that happened was BM flipping scum. Nevertheless, that is not the reason Maju gives for his flip of opinion. Changing one's opinion is not really scummy, it's changing it for no real reason. In this case I am of two minds: there was a decent reason for changing reads on NSH, but it's not the one Maju mentioned. It could be carelessness, but Ockham's razor seems to fall on the side of scum: he already knew NSH was town and the opinion in the thread was swinging to NSH being town... so he pulled that shoddy reason out of a hat for "changing his opinion". TLDR: now that I've pondered I agree that there's something to the case. ##unvote ##vote MajuGarzett | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Now, who wants to be the one to say "Boy, this seems too easy"? Me, I guess. Boy, this seems too easy. Maju barely said anything in his defense, no one is resisting. If he's scum, I appreciate his buddies being so cool about it. ^^ | ||
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
VE, now that Acro answered you, who would read as scum besides Maju? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
I realize that's kinda an easy, cop-out answer but I'm trying to take it a little slower this game. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17958 Posts
I do still like a grush lynch too. Your case made me think the chance of Maju flipping scum was higher than Grush, but honestly I think there's a good chance of both being scum. Advantage of a grush lynch is that we get one of the more coinflippy players out of the way too. In fact, I think this is a pretty good hypothesis. Grush and Maju are both scum. In that case, I want grush dead first. ##unvote ##vote Grush57 | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17958 Posts
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain17958 Posts
On July 12 2012 17:16 Acrofales wrote: Oh, one more thing: @casualman: Make that damned case already, it's 2 days overdue. At the rest of town: I know now is a pretty bad time to propose a policy lynch on this guy, but his actions all game have been retarded and I hate that this kind of play is tolerated in TL Mafia. It's a coinflip lynch and I feel both grush and maju have a greater chance of flipping scum atm, but it just galls me to leave this guy be. | ||
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
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Vivax
21960 Posts
Hell, I'd even throw a dice to decide between these, but it's hardly possible so I'll go with the most readable one cause I feel it's safer lynching based on reads than on coinflips. | ||
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grush57
Korea (South)2582 Posts
On July 13 2012 22:15 Vivax wrote: I understand Acro's concern. Tbh I'd love to lynch them all at once. Maju for actively lurking so obviously that it hurts. Grush for defending scum and being grush. Casualman for playing like an asshat and voting VE constantly without reason. Hell, I'd even throw a dice to decide between these, but it's hardly possible so I'll go with the most readable one cause I feel it's safer lynching based on reads than on coinflips. now i'm naked, nothing but an animal but can you fake it, for just one more show and what do you want, i want to change and what have you got when you feel the same | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17958 Posts
On July 14 2012 00:32 grush57 wrote: now i'm naked, nothing but an animal but can you fake it, for just one more show and what do you want, i want to change and what have you got when you feel the same I can translate this: it says "I am scum. Please lynch me!" I for one am happy to oblige. Who else wants to lynch grush? PS. Yeah, the thing about casualman was more venting about his shitty filter. I honestly think even grush has contributed more... at least grush has contributed enough to look scummy! Lets lynch!!! | ||
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grush57
Korea (South)2582 Posts
On July 14 2012 00:37 Acrofales wrote: I can translate this: it says "I am scum. Please lynch me!" I for one am happy to oblige. Who else wants to lynch grush? PS. Yeah, the thing about casualman was more venting about his shitty filter. I honestly think even grush has contributed more... at least grush has contributed enough to look scummy! Lets lynch!!! | ||
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Vivax
21960 Posts
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grush57
Korea (South)2582 Posts
On July 14 2012 01:20 Vivax wrote: Grush, care to explain what you wrote there? "no" means you get my vote. Sigh, lyrics of a song from "The world is a vampire" which I have been quoting from before. In other news, Majuju is scum. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
The case is stronger, I'm just more comfortable. Do you not want to lynch Maju? Is that what you're saying Acro? That's not what you whispered softly in my ear earlier. Sweet, sweet sincerity. Delicious intrigue. Unnecessary resistance. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain17958 Posts
Your question got me thinking about the lack of resistance, so I went back to the voting history and found that there was a lot of discussion of how grush is scum, but no actual votes: + Show Spoiler [night posts about grush] + On July 11 2012 19:52 Vivax wrote: The credit for this mislynch goes to katina for defending Twelve. Looked a bit through the filters: - casualman asked for a VE lynch all the time. Katina kept asking for a vote on casu, katina also defended twelve. So I'd expect casu to be a possible scum member too, since katina's actions were one-way-WIFOMS imo. Defending town, attacking scum. - maju posted a case against katina when she was already set to be lynched. Maju is the type of guy who doesn't troll, keeps activity to a minimum, and doesn't post game changing information at timings where it would matter. He's more readable than grush and casualman cause he doesn't write derp things, but his play fits a scum role with what I could gain. - grushs readable posts: Also, he voted for 5 townies and then katina before re-voting twelve. It was impossible to save katina from that claim, so there's been scum voting for her 100%. grush defended katina + bm so far. Right now I'd go for grush, then maju. Btw, WHO HAS BEEN ROLEBLOCKED before katina died? We indeed had noone claiming a RB yet. On July 12 2012 00:08 Acrofales wrote: Ghost, you seem to think Grush is a town troll? The most salient mention of grush in your filter seems to be: Do you still think that? Why? If you think Grush is town, then who do you think we should lynch tomorrow? For the record, did you find any scum games by Grush? He was town in Bastard 2 and Space Station as well. Really hard to meta game him. I still want to lynch grush based on these things: Item 1 NSH says he was trapping for this: a scum who knew more about the roles than he should. It could equally well be speculation, but it definitely IS a defense of Katina. Item 2 Honestly, if Grush is town I see no reason for Katina to defend him like this, except very very maybe to be able to say post-hoc "I told you so". Trying to make sense of connections to Katina is hard, though. She fingered Adam as town, but she fingered Twelve and ShiaoPi as town too. We've already screwed up on Twelve and would probably have screwed up with ShiaoPi too if Hyaach's green check hadn't cleared him. As for casualman? I've got even less of a read on him. It's pathetic really. On July 12 2012 00:32 Kurumi wrote: I dislike casualman because of my gut related to RoL's play in one of the games (he was feigning AFK while being Mafia Poisoner, voted 2 minutes before the deadline and avoided lynch that way because everyone thought that he was going to get modkilled...) and the "what would host do" WIFOM and he never voted Katina. His vote was on VE for like two or three days now. But oh well. I think grush will flip scum. Defended confirmed scum, defended by confirmed scum, reluctant to vote scum, nothing of substance in his play, we know he is around but doesn't contribute. I know where my vote goes tomorrow. On July 12 2012 00:55 VisceraEyes wrote: Same, grush is the scums, he's got my vote tomorrow. On July 12 2012 07:17 VisceraEyes wrote: Coin-flippy is better now - can't keep coin-flippy alive at lylo. I want to lynch into Grush/Casual tomorrow. Neither of them are to be alive at LYLO. If we're beyond that point and they're both town, we lose. Simple as that. Most of this is before Maju decided to play his horribly obvious active lurking trick on us, but still. The people who are active and posting in this thread all voiced their opinions to kill Grush. Vivax kinda changed his opinion after Maju's action, but the rest never changed. Along roles day and suddenly everybody wants to kill Maju. This got me thinking more about the reluctance to follow through on the grush kill than on the maju switch. Ghost was the one to suggest we lynch Maju and ShiaoPi followed through on it. A confirmed (dead) townie and someone with a green check on him. I am willing to believe the initial push on Maju was town, but I can't help but feel there was some scum in helping it along and moving the suspicion off grush. This could have two reasons: 1. They're both scum, but with grush being one of the first to vote majuju he'd gain some town credit. 2. Grush is scum and Maju is town and scum is pushing a mislynch on majuju. However, it could be for a third reason: Maju is scum, Grush is who knows what and scum is shit scared of acting to defend their buddy, because it's highly unlikely it'll help much anyway. If we look at the Katina lynch, the two most avid defender of Katina was Twelve and he flipped town, so fuck knows what scum is doing this game. Of course, all of this is highly speculative, which is why I didn't actually want to post it, because it's a useless case. However, you wanted to know why I'm voting grush? It's because I feel the chance is larger that grush is scum than maju based on my gut feeling about how the game is playing out. | ||
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