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Stop talking to Kurumi, it's a colossal waste of time and space. If he wants to contribute he'll contribute. Otherwise we're best off just reading his posts and ignoring him for a while.
@VE there is nothing particularly scummy in the post of Vivax you quoted. Just calling something scummy doesn't make it so, and I'm pretty annoyed that you haven't yet learned your lesson. If you can learn to actually provide reasons for your reads then I might listen to you, but until then you're not really worthy of any serious attention. If you continue to do so I'll call for your lynch. The fact of the matter is that Vivax's activity patterns and his effort indicate that he's either a townie who is seeking to kill mafia but doesn't really know the proper things to look for (which is why he attacked marv, for example) or he's a really good scum who is pushing blame onto culpable townies. For now I lean toward the former because some of his posts (such as the one that missed the reason for your selfvote/unvote) simply indicate he is a townie who isn't reading thoroughly.
Upon rereading, my stance on Katina hasn't changed. I am very sure she is scum. I am also still fairly sure Twelve is scum, and that Shiaopi is scum. I'll post cases later today but these three players are my strongest reads. I have to look at the posts a couple more times to see if I'm just paranoid or if there is a scum, but I really do think that one of the more active players (i.e. someone between ET, Acro, and VE) might be scum. I just can't figure out why I have that nagging feeling or who it is.
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Have you looked at Shiaopi, Acrofales? Can you give me an idea of what you think of him? Worse or better than Twelve would be good enough, I imagine.
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I was right about BM too, you moron.
Anyway I'm done trying to reason with you for now. The first post you quote is worthless because Vivax admitted he made a mistake regarding your selfvote. The second post hinges on Vivax apparently not pushing for your or Acro's lynch. Sure, the defense of BM makes him look bad but it's characterized by him having a strong opinion and clear stance. Most scum in that type of situation won't hardline so that they can spin the story in their favor later.
That's how grush and Katina looked when they referenced BM (and the fact of the matter is that there were very few players who mentioned him)
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That was @VE. Mandalor is clearly not reading the thread. He wouldn't make a bad lynch either.
So that means I have on my suspect list:
Twelve
Katina
Shiaopi
Mandalor
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Lol.
I don't agree with you.
If Vivax answers this question satisfactorily, I still won't agree with you. If he doesn't, then I might be inclined to rethink my stance. (but that's pretty unlikely)
Vivax: why did you not vote VE or Acro yesterday?
+ Show Spoiler +the fact of the matter is that Vivax already has a statement in his filter that says why he didn't vote Acro/VE. It's hilarious to me that VE is going nuts over Vivax missing VE's selfvote explanation when VE has missed Vivax's lack of vote explanation.
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VE if you're town then you need to go back and do what you chastised Vivax for not doing. Go back and reread the thread, because you are clearly operating either purposely on misinformation or unintentionally. If it's purposeful then obviously you're scum but if you're town you'll go back and reread everything with an objective stance.
You have this massive propensity to OMGUS as both alignments, which is why I think your read on Vivax is total horse shit.
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Also one thing I wanted to mention before I forgot:
I looked over s0lstice's posts again and his main read was Katina. In addition at times he mentioned grush and he caught onto many town tells for many players (such as drwiggles with the Mattchew thing) that I strongly agreed with.
I think his filter is a good read for most townies left alive because he had very clear and reasoned thoughts and he was almost definitely shot by mafia because he was making sense. (that and he was unlikely to pull a prot)
The rastaban death is a bit confusing because his filter is mostly void. Perhaps a blue snipe or a vig shot, though the latter would mean we have at least 3 vigis and one unclaimed with a double stack on marv or s0lstice. I don't think a town vig would hold back from claiming the shot so it's most likely that rastaban was a mafia shot IMO.
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Given that Shiaopi gave two unsure verdicts on Katina and Twelve and then a scum verdict on a third player who looks the same as the first two, I'd say Hyaach is a bad lynch.
Literally Shiaopi says he doesn't know what to make of Twelve's disappearance but Hyaach's disappearance makes him scum. Dafak?
Let's kill katina or Shiaopi today. Acro what do you think?
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Sure Mattchew, what do you think?
It's getting kind of annoying to have to decipher the intentions of these players, it's like most larger games where half the playerbase lurks while throwing weak accusations at the rest of the lurkers. Pretty freaking stupid, honestly.
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On July 04 2012 07:32 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 07:30 NoSmurfHere wrote:
Given that Shiaopi gave two unsure verdicts on Katina and Twelve and then a scum verdict on a third player who looks the same as the first two, I'd say Hyaach is a bad lynch.
Literally Shiaopi says he doesn't know what to make of Twelve's disappearance but Hyaach's disappearance makes him scum. Dafak?
Let's kill katina or Shiaopi today. Acro what do you think? Hyaach is simply being actively anti-town by not doing anything if not called to do it. That is what makes me think of him as scum in difference to the other two candidates I gave my opinion on.
How is that different from katina and twelve? They haven't done shit all despite being asked too.
Also, what happened to your BKE read? You went from constantly calling him scum to actually agreeing with him.
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Cool, that's a reasonable answer from Vivax. Now, everyone read this:
On July 04 2012 07:42 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am giving Katina some slack because it's her birthday and looking at her filter there is more effort involved at least from my opinion.
Twelve is just unreadable to me. I would see him as newbie town based on his posts but intentions behind it look like scum, so I said it feels like a coinflip to me.
Hyaach in comparison reacts aggressively to being called out and even says: "I have no reason to participate, screw you".
Shiaopi says he "would" read him as newbie town based on his posts (which ones? What parts of his posts?) but that his intentions seem scummy.
Wait what? If the intentions seem scummy then...wouldn't you call him scum?
Now note how he says Hyaach reacts. He says Hyaach reacts aggressively. That's a TOWN TELL.
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So I went back and read Shiaopi's cases in Newbie XVI since I recalled coaching that game. He never messaged me but I recalled during my reading that he was among my strongest townreads (I mostly helped the cop that game)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342960¤tpage=18#350
Look at that post and then compare it to the post he made above on this very page. The difference in tone and willingness to commit to a stance is striking. In XVI Shiaopi is not afraid of forming an opinion on EVERY player in the game. At no point, not even once, does he cut slack or say he doesn't feel sure (but then still continue to justify things one way or another)
Here, Shiaopi completely refuses to take a stance and then makes a piss poor "contribution" in his calling out of Hyaach for what should be a towntell. In addition he dropped his push on BKE from yesterday without as much as a word of explanation (not to mention the explanation I just extracted from him is pathetic)
Kill this guy today.
##unvote Katina
##vote ShiaoPi
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I have scumreads on all of Shiaopi, Twelve, and Katina. It just kinda fluctuates because the latter two are completely gone and ShiaoPi has been waffling endlessly all game.
Like, look at his first post: it's just a total rehash of everything that happened and it reminds me of those posts Zealos makes when he rolls scum. It's that "summarize everything" newbie scum crap that they do when they have no idea how to blend in.
Shiaopi have you ever played scum before? Can you link me to that game if you have? Have you played town besides XVI? Link me there as well?
Acro and Mattchew, what is it about Shiaopi you find townie?
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I don't put much worth into posts that say "your case on X is good but I think he's town" because scum already know alignments. It's the easiest way to gain cred.
What separates scum from town is proactiveness in pushing correct lynches and stopping mislynches. Marv was obviously good enough for scum to shoot him, so any scum would have interest in defending marv so that they look better in light of him flipping town.
In other words, people calling others town is not alignment indicative and it's a strong reason why I'm wary of people posting their town reads without cause. I think it's only necessary when you're dealing with someone who is likely to be lynched or who has a strong case against them.
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It's not alignment indicative and I'm wary of people doing it because they think it is, or try to make it sound as if correctly giving a town read actually means something.
For example, Vivax just used that quote that isn't alignment indicative to suggest to himself that ShiaoPi is scum. It just undermines the read unnecessarily when it shouldn't really change the read in the first place. It's a tool that can be used by mafia to undermine legitimate cases and it's a phenomenon that is misinterpreted often by townies (like meta)
How is this bad logic, exactly?
Anyway as I read further into ShiaoPi's past games I'm more convinced he's scum. Confirmation bias, perhaps, but I really don't find much of a resemblance between his posts here and in any of his past games that I've read. In XIV he had a defense of himself against a fairly weak accusation that went on for paragraphs. Here his defense is mostly just "I'm finding it hard to adjust to the game size" which is just newb card.
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*isn't scum
BTW VE if you have such a problem with my read then don't sheep me. You haven't even shown that you are really town yet.
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???
Why are you trying so hard to create a conflict?
You're assuming things unnecessarily and that's why you misinterpret things. I just meant I am wary or cautious or trying to be careful when considering town reads. I'm not necessarily suspicious of people who do it, it's just a cause to be misled.
Taking something that is not alignment indicative and using it as evidence to show someone's alignment is something both sides do. They just do it differently. My post had nothing to do with that and you're seemingly just trying to find fault in my posts because you're pissed off for whatever reason.
If you don't like my posts, go ahead and ignore me.
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So Mattchew:
You make a point of Shiaopi saying he found BM town for his aggressiveness.
What do you make of him calling BM town for his aggressiveness but calling Hyaach scum for the same reason?
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On July 04 2012 09:41 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 09:17 NoSmurfHere wrote:
???
Why are you trying so hard to create a conflict?
You're assuming things unnecessarily and that's why you misinterpret things. I just meant I am wary or cautious or trying to be careful when considering town reads. I'm not necessarily suspicious of people who do it, it's just a cause to be misled.
Taking something that is not alignment indicative and using it as evidence to show someone's alignment is something both sides do. They just do it differently. My post had nothing to do with that and you're seemingly just trying to find fault in my posts because you're pissed off for whatever reason.
If you don't like my posts, go ahead and ignore me. It's not that I don't like your posts, but when everything you're saying is in direct conflict with what I'm thinking, yeah I'm gonna have a problem with that. I had a townread on Katina, she was your top suspect. My top suspect was obvTown to you, like, how the fuck do you WANT me to react to this shit? And to make matters worse, you dismiss everything I say! "Oh, you're just wrong. That post is worthless. That point is trash. You're a fucking idiot"
man everything I'm saying is not in direct conflict with you. We (apparently) had the same scumread on BM. I called the vig shot on him. If you find Twelve, ShiaoPi, and Katina to all be town then you haven't done a great job in expressing yourself on that front (other than Katina). I consider Vivax town for the exact same reason you consider him to be tunneling you; you think he didn't read. You clearly didn't read his posts very well and he even answered why he didn't vote you or Acrofales. Not to mention he clarified it again.
Could I be wrong? Sure, but you haven't really pushed your read after I showed resistance to it. You just got mad and gave up. How the hell is that supposed to convince me that you are right and I am wrong? It just serves to piss people off and get confused at how dramatic you are.
If you think Twelve and ShiaoPi are town why don't you tell us all why? I asked Mattchew a question just now about ShiaoPi and he didn't answer yet. You mind telling me what you think about that question?
It'd be really nice if you stopped being a drama queen and answered questions/pushed your reads without getting offended every single time I disagree with you.
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also, I called one of your points worthless ONCE because it had already been refuted. If you want to exaggerate, go ahead, but obviously it's not going to get us anywhere.
I thought it was particularly funny that as soon as I revealed who I was you immediately called me scum. It's like this vicious pattern every game where you simply call me scum just because. You might have been right once but you're just going to shit up the thread if you call me scum every time we're in a game together.
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EPT
