EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XVII - Page 2
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
| ||
|
Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
We all seem pretty set on lynching roflwaffles tomorrow if he doesn't get shot tonight. I am fine with this. We need to move the discussion forward though. I'm looking at the three players whose voting patterns look scummy at the end of D1: Golden, trackd00r, and austinmcc. Golden- He's been playing semi-similarly to his last two games as town. It's difficult because his town play in the past looks scummy. I think I'll read him the way I should have read him last game, he's a townie that's underconfident in his reads and has difficulty expressing his opinions. I reserve the right to change my opinion on him given further evidence/information. austinmcc- He had a read and he stuck with it. There's possible scum motivation behind that. He could've been attempting to get a mislynch on Crossfire and simply stuck with it. However all of his actions included analysis backing them up and, in my eyes, a genuine attempt at logically convincing us of his read. I'm reading that as townie. trackd00r- Of the three his voteswitch looks the scummiest. It reminds me a lot of Xatalos's voteswitch in NMM XV in which he moved his vote "just to make sure the lynch happens." The lynch was a sure thing anyway. Anyone attempting to derail it with a ninja vote was forfeiting his/her life during the D2 lynch cycle. I'm not buying it. To sum up, Golden and austinmcc are off my scumdar at the moment. After roflwaffles dies I'd suggest we all take a good look at trackd00r and possible scummy motivations for his play. I'm leaving for work so I won't be around for a little while. If I'm alive come the day cycle I'll have more time to contribute since I'm finally out of classes for the summer and I only have work competing for my time. GL everybody :D | ||
|
Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
Technically s0Lstice had his vote on HeavOnEarth at the time. Not that it changes much, prplhz just made a mistake in that particular votecount because of s0Lstice's FOS. | ||
|
Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
I don't see a huge problem with this. If we have a cop I'd suggest he/she checks into that group and clears one of them or confirms them as scum. This would depend on our last scum not being a godfather. Assuming we mislynch today, I'd suggest that the possible cop claim tomorrow(?) and give us his reads. I haven't thought it through completely so I may be off on when our possible cop should claim. Maybe he just shouldn't claim until we're about to lynch a townie? I'm not quite sure. I'll crunch the numbers later. Other than that my only suggestion would be to make sure our list is flexible. If the potential scum is outside of that list, they would of course give you the green light on this plan. Make sure that this list doesn't destroy our ability to effectively pressure and hunt scum. Keep other players on your radar. Keep up pressure on players. With all that in mind I'd suggest we lynch into Golden or trackd00r. Their votes at the end of D1 were face saving gestures rather than anything that contributed towards our lynch. I honestly don't see how one of them isn't scum. | ||
|
Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
I don't think your changes to the plan hold water. Just look at s0Lstice's play this game. He's as close to confirmed town as you can get without dying and flipping green. I'll be looking through all the players who aren't on the list and seeing if I think any of them should be on it. I'll be out for a bit. When I'm back I'll read a few filters and see what I can dig up. | ||
|
Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
Why is the list non-negotiable? I agree with your reads but your list is also taking out some of the pressure and case-building that can cause a scum player to show his/her hand. Is there some sort of logic to this list that I'm not understanding? | ||
|
Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
I'm back and ready to devote some time to the game. In regards to the list, I realize now it was partially a ploy to get the reactions of players. While I didn't derail that as much as alan did, I apologize for screwing with your plan. Should have realized what you were doing. Dumb Milton is dumb...  | ||
|
Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
What scum motivations were there for a voteswitch? At what point did players move their votes over? Seeing that 3 players had moved their votes in quick succesion(suki, me, and roflwaffles+ Show Spoiler + Funny tidbit. Spoilered cuz it's unimportant. Suki ninja'd me with her vote. I remember posting my vote and then looking back and being like, "hold on a second, this page is waaaaayyy longer than I remember when I refreshed."  Maybe this is too WIFOMy, but I feel like the safe play for scum would have been to have one player voting HeavOnEarth in order to gain some of the town cred in case he got lynched and one player voting someone else in order to keep a little momentum towards a possible mislynch. This isn't a strong point, so my opinions aren't the only things hinging on this. Regarding why I think trackd00r is scum, a lot of it has to do with the D1 lynch analysis that I outlined earlier. Other than that he spends a lot of time pressuring easy players (Crossfire and Golden), and putting up some pretty weak pressure. I don't think his priorities are in line with a town player's priorities. I have read suki's case and it was pretty good. I'd recommend you all take a second look at it. If she's wrong about trackd00r I'll give the case against her a second look with a different perspective. I don't think she's wrong though. ##Vote: trackd00r | ||
|
Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
| ||
|
Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
| ||
|
Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
@ s0Lstice Yes, I am a bit surprised. @ sciberbia I'm pretty exhausted. Had to work an extremely long shift. If I feel like I'm about to get mislynched or people have questions about what motivated any of my posts I'll defend myself/answer questions. I will answer your question about my breadcrumbing comment. Please pardon me if my posting is a little incoherent. I'm really tired. You had been commenting quite a bit on blue role play and I thought I needed to add my two cents. I was trying to figure out ways for us to get enough confirmed town players to make it impossible for scum to win. At first I was thinking about the possibility of confirming two townies if we had a jailkeeper. One would claim they were RB'd and the jailer would show us his/her breadcrumb. I thought of what could go wrong after I posted my advice. What if we had a scum RBer and they breadcrumbed their action and used this to become confirmed town? My mind kind of exploded then. I was also thinking of confirming town players through a cop, but that would require this game not to be a setup with double godfathers. I find that a distinct possibility (if we have a cop) because I could see prplhz making a setup that is basically a "fuck you" to town players who rely too much on blue roles. Does this make sense? Basically my thoughts were chasing themselves around in circles and I didn't think all the possibilities through when I posted my breadcrumbing comment. I'm hoping everyone ignored it. Edit: I wrote this last night but my internet went out. Posting it now. Just so you know, I'm not going to waste a ton of time defending myself. I'd much prefer to scumhunt. Suki seems like the most logical lynch candidate for this upcoming day cycle. I'd prefer not to spend an entire day with the focus on her. I'll be rereading the thread to see if there is anything people missed. Analysis will be on it's way in a little while. | ||
|
Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
I was reading through the filters when I noticed your posts on Unforgiven. I was a little skeptical of the case, it seemed like you were reading way too far into host actions and such. The only thing I found scummy was HeavOnEarth's "bus" of MJ D1. Nevertheless your posts caused me to do a double-check of Unforgiven's filter. I'd like everyone to take a look at this post. On June 16 2012 02:35 Unforgiven_ve wrote: edbwop: *a player.. is kinda hard to get the pulse of the game after 10pages but i will do my best. I a vanilla btw What purpose is there in claiming VT? If a player is vanilla they should be happy to take a bullet for our blue roles. Claiming vanilla does nothing for town. What does it do? Firstly, it makes it less suspicious when Unforgiven isn't shot during a night cycle. Secondly, it keeps Unforgiven from committing completely to information. Any actions a VT takes have the built in defense, "but I didn't have complete information." This seems advantageous since roflwaffles was still in the game at that time. If roflwaffles was still alive after N1, he could back down from the weak pressure he posted here. On June 16 2012 03:09 Unforgiven_ve wrote: In case i die, my 2 "best" reads (so far) are austincc and roflwaffles55. They were trying to push a lynch on Crossfire, seeing as this wasnt working they decided a Bus from roflwaffles55 and austin will kept his target "just in case". We still have 6 more hours till night ends right? There is absolutely no reason for VT to claim VT. Lynch this guy. | ||
|
Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
I'd like to open the question to everyone else as well. I'm not sure I'll get an answer from Unforgiven and I'd actually appreciate some sort of explanation if there is one. Is there any reason why a town player would claim vanilla? I honestly can't think of a good one. Between HeavOnEarth's awkward "bus" and Unforgiven's VT claim I think we have all the evidence we need. I feel pretty good about this. ##Vote: HeavOnEarth | ||
|
Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
 ##Unvote: Dead guy ##Vote: Unforgiven_ve | ||
|
Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
Quick clarification, are you referring to mafia play here or just newbie play in general? No, im a simple Vanilla, about hard bussing a scum on day 1, this is a ridiculous way to start a MINI game, remember we are all newbies, WE ALL WANT TO STAY ALIVE THE MOST TIME WE CAN, a experimented player cannot say to one of his mates "hey, we are going to kill on day one, sorry for not letting you have some fun"...the only time i see this can happen is when one mafia cannot play because of (again) RL complications and he gladly sacrifices for his team, i dont see this happening in a newbie/mini game. | ||
|
Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
We seem to have consolidated on Unforgiven for our lynch today. Do not let this kill discussion! I see no harm in moving our discussion forward. At this point our scum player has no one to defend but himself/herself. There is no one on the scum team left to protect anymore so any comments that our scum player makes are with the full intent of making himself/herself look as townie as possible as opposed to covering the tracks of another player. I say this because suki and I are likely the next players on the chopping block. Under this reasoning there's almost nothing we can do to convince town of our innocence. There's nothing suki can do to convince me she isn't scum if Unforgiven flips green, and, if I'm thinking correctly from any of the confirmed town players' viewpoints, there is nothing that I can do to convince you of my innocence. Back to my point. We're lynching Unforgiven today but there is no harm in getting things out of the way for future discussion. If the game continues after this day cycle because Unforgiven flips green (I find it really unlikely at this point), either suki or I is next. First of all, is this correct? Do you guys have any questions for either of us or things you need clarified about our play? If this is correct and you decide on lynching one of us, consolidate on it quickly and let us know that there is no way we can defend ourselves. That way, if we're town, we can spend our time helping out as much as possible rather than wasting it on a defense that no one will listen to anyway. Edit: Just saw Unforgiven's case on me. Posting this anyway. Not really seeing anything in it that sciberbia hasn't already pointed out. Will respond to it shortly after I've reread it a couple times. | ||
|
Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
I'll be back later tonight. | ||
|
Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
Unforgiven's case on me made me feel even better about lynching him. Let's look at his 1st point against me: First, His good samaritan side+ Show Spoiler + It looks like he's a non-native English speaker. I can understand him having difficulty with the language, let alone conveying a tone that pressures other players. If that's the case I would like to hear more of what he has to say. He's shown a willingness to think deeply and consider all possible lines of play that I think may be valuable to the town. By no means am I clearing him of suspicion, but there is a certain townie logic to some of his actions now that I think more about it. I think we have several better lynch targets anyway. I'll outline who I will support for lynch in my next post. If I recall, during the exact game Unforgiven is referencing, I (as town) semi-defended Unforgiven based on his language issues. I also backed off of Vivax a little when I thought town was tunneling him too hard. I thought we were in danger of doing both to alan. When I backed off of alan I thought a lot of the case on him was based around us misunderstanding what he was trying to say. There is a reason Unforgiven said, "dont go and look! just remember." If you looked at the game Unforgiven is referencing, you'd notice that he's only referencing material that furthers his attack on me, and he is purposefully ignoring any information that counters the point he is trying to make. Did the scum attempt to buddy by defending players? Yes. Did townies back down from/defend other players too? Yes. This holds no water and looks like a scum scrambling for cases other than his own rather than a townie trying to be helpful. 2nd point: Unforgiven states that no one pressured me. I can't help that. I can't control who pressures me and who doesn't. This is a nonpoint. 3rd point: I didn't pressure anyone. Yes I did. Admittedly, I didn't put a ton of pressure on roflwaffles. He seemed like he was still following up on the pressure he put on alan at the time. Was his vote/unvote scummy? Yes. Should I have grilled him more for it? Yes indeed. I also pressured suki. I also pressured HeavOnEarth. I'm not sure how Unforgiven reads my post attacking HeavOnEarth as anything other than pressure. I also heavily (and incorrectly) pressured trackd00r up until our D2 lynch and I'm pressuring Unforgiven now. Once again, Unforgiven is ignoring any evidence that doesn't fit in with his analysis of my play. This is because he's scum, and he can't find a good option for a mislynch so he has to invent one. 4th point: And after seeing Heaven is going to be lynched and its impossible to stop it he post this: + Show Spoiler + On June 15 2012 04:59 Miltonkram wrote: Oops, slept in a bit later than I'd planned. s0Lstice, I'm inclined to agree with you. HeavOnEarth looks like the best lynch candidate. Everybody, I'd suggest you take a look at him. His filter is not particularly long, but I think there is enough scummy behavior there to warrant a vote. ##Vote: HeavOnEarth + Show Spoiler + On June 15 2012 05:48 Miltonkram wrote: @ Heaven There are a lot of people jumping on your case really quickly. Not gonna lie, it's making me a little nervous. Please post some sort of defense or at the very least what kind of reads you have on players whenever you have the time. i know you werent lying, you were really nervours he wasnt here to defend himself, right? I was nervous at how easy the lynch was going. I thought we might be mislynching since no one was trying to derail it. My point? This is a really weak point. Unforgiven's arguments are full of these. The rest of Unforgiven's case against me is plays that are plausible for both scum and town. My goal with this post is to show that Unforgiven went about his case on me exactly the way a scum player would go about it. He needs to get a mislynch on someone, so why not me? I'm arguably the easiest player to pressure at this point. If that's not enough, within his case he misrepresents me and attempts to make my play look a lot scummier than it actually is. Let me repeat myself, this is exactly how a scum player would make their case when they are attempting to get a mislynch. Good night all. Lynch this guy and let's end the game. | ||
|
Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
@ crossfire In regards to roflwaffles, I was entertaining two possible notions. One in which roflwaffles was scum, one in which he wasn't. That awkward vote-then-unvote thing he did looked scummy to me. At first I thought he was fully backing down from his pressure based solely on a wrist slap from you. Then roflwaffles made this post directed at alan. Interesting that the first legitimate read that you come up with is a conspiracy between me and suki. Not only is it completely ridiculous, but you second guess it immediately, again leaving your options open so that you can't actually be held accountable for anything. Put yourself on the line, start contributing to the big picture and not just responding emotionally to me, and think logically about what you're going to post. The biggest thing that keeps irking me about your play is your seeming avoidance of actual decision making, the fact that even when criticizing my play you can't say "I think this is scummy". You go all the way around it and put the possible motivations from both angles. I would appreciate it if someone other then me looked at alan133's posts and formed their own independent opinion on him. I thought roflwaffles was saying, "I took my vote off of alan, but I'm still suspicious of him and I'm still pressuring him." Since my pressure on roflwaffles hinged on the fact that he wasn't still suspicious of alan, I figured I had misunderstood him. Did he end up scum? Was that a scummy move on his part? Yes, but I thought I was misunderstanding him at the time. I can understand how you're confused on my statements about suki and moving discussion forward. Keep in mind that I was really tired when I wrote those so I didn't communicate my point as clearly as I would have liked. I'll do my best to clarify them for you. At this point, our scum player has no one left that he/she needs to defend. That makes it ten times harder for us town players to catch scumslips. Is it still possible that scum might slip up? Yes. I thought Unforgiven made a couple of scumslips, that's why I was so confident in lynching him. But at this point, all scum has to do is look as townie as possible because there is no one left to keep safe. That's why it gets frustrating for a townie trying to defend himself/herself and why a scum can just slip through the cracks. There oftentime comes a point where there is literally nothing a player can do to convince people one way or another. Suki is at that point for me. Her posts have looked really townie, but, if she's scum, what harm is there in looking townie? There isn't anyone she can inadvertently incriminate or that she has to keep an eye out for. The best way for a lone scum to play is by looking townie as hell. I'd rather have us consolidate on a lynch quickly, and then use the rest of the day to discuss future lynch candidates. Does that make sense? @ Everyone If you guys are intent on lynching me, please consolidate on me quickly after you've let me know which points I should/shouldn't defend or clarify for you. If you decide my answers are unsatisfactory, don't beat a dead horse! Let me know that I'm a dead man walking and I'll do my best to make sure you guys lynch correctly during the next day cycle. With that in mind, I'll have a few reads up in a little while. | ||
|
Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
You're making my head hurt But WIFOM situations always make my head hurt. Let me read it a few more times and I'll get back to you. | ||
| ||
